It seems safe to say that Keith Olbermann has found his audience, and hit his stride. At this point, all he has to do is find a well-known conservative to bash and belittle each night, and his viewers comprised of Netroots denizens and Michael Moore devotees across the country will gush over and applaud each vitriolic statement.
With that in mind, the Tuesday installment of “Countdown” certainly didn’t disappoint such folks, as the conservative in the crosshairs du jour was former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (video available here). At issue was a speech Gingrich gave Monday night at the Nackey S. Loeb First Amendment Award dinner in New Hampshire wherein he suggested that due to the ongoing war on terror, new rules might need to be applied to our Constitution to protect the citizens. Olbermann didn’t like this idea very much, and badly misquoted a famous German theologian to evoke images of Hitler and Nazis:
If you`re going to destroy freedom of speech, bub, you`ve already lost all the cities. To paraphrase Pastor Martin Niemoller`s poem about Germany in the `30s and `40s, first they came for the Fourth Amendment, then they came for habeas corpus, then came for free speech, and there was no one allowed to speak up.
Incredible. As you'll see from one of the many translations of Niemoller's poem, Olbermann was playing quite footless and fancy-free with what he defined as a paraphrase:
They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
So, what did Olbermann think was offensive about Gingrich’s speech? Here’s a clip provided by KO:
My (INAUDIBLE) view is that either before we lose a city, or if we are truly stupid after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of engagement that we use every technology we can find to break up their capacity to use the Internet, to break up their capacity to use free speech, and to go after people who want to kill us, to stop them from recruiting people before they get to reach out and convince young people to destroy their lives while destroying us.
Terrible position to take in the middle of the war on terror, dontcha think? Well, Olbermann certainly does, and he shared more of Gingrich’s awful concepts with his audience:
"I want to suggest to you that we right now should be impaneling people to look seriously at a level of supervision that we would never dream of, if it were not for the scale of this threat." That`s one quote. "This is a serious, long-term war," Gingrich added, "and it will inevitably lead us to want to know what is said in every suspect place in the country. It will lead us to learn how to close down every Web site that is dangerous."
Horrors. We certainly wouldn’t want to know what our enemies who are trying to kill us are communicating with one another here on our shores, would we? And, shutting down such avenues is clearly out of the question even if it meant saving American lives, correct?. After all, the terrorists' freedom of speech is much more important than our safety, isn’t it?
As the discussion ensued, Olbermann showed what he was really concerned with – his own audience which he nicely played to:
So, and also, when you talk about closing down Internet sites, who is the one who`s going to decide which those are? I mean, it could be the Daily Kos.
Oh no. Not that. After all, Keith, if they shut down Daily Kos, where would you get your ideas from, and who would watch your program?
What follows is a full transcript of this segment.
KEITH OLBERMANN: Good evening from Los Angeles.
It`s in the quintessential movie about this city, "Chinatown." Morty the Mortician turns to Jack Nicholson`s character and says, "Middle of the drought, and the water commissioner drowns. Only in L.A." Tonight, a real-life equivalent. Middle of a dinner honoring the sanctity of the First Amendment, and the former speaker of the House talks about restricting freedom of speech. Only in the Republican Party.
Our fifth story on the COUNTDOWN, it might have been his first attempt to fire up his base for a possible presidential run, or it might have been something more ominous. But Newt Gingrich has actually proposed a different set of rules and invoked the bogeyman of terror.
Gingrich was the featured speaker at the annual Nackey S. Loeb First Amendment Award Dinner in Manchester, New Hampshire, last night, where he not only argued that campaign finance reform and the separation of church and state should be rethought, because they allegedly hurt the First Amendment, but he also suggested that new rules might be necessary to stop terrorists using freedom of speech to get out their message.
Here is his rationalization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: My (INAUDIBLE) view is that either before we lose a city, or if we are truly stupid after we lose a city, we will adopt rules of engagement that we use every technology we can find to break up their capacity to use the Internet, to break up their capacity to use free speech, and to go after people who want to kill us, to stop them from recruiting people before they get to reach out and convince young people to destroy their lives while destroying us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: If you`re going to destroy freedom of speech, bub, you`ve already lost all the cities.
To paraphrase Pastor Martin Niemoller`s poem about Germany in the `30s and `40s, first they came for the Fourth Amendment, then they came for habeas corpus, then came for free speech, and there was no one allowed to speak up.
The politics in a moment.
First, to discuss the constitutionality of this, I`m joined by George Washington University law professor and constitutional law expert Jonathan Turley.
Jonathan, as always, thanks for your time tonight.
JONATHAN TURLEY, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW EXPERT, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: So the conventional wisdom on this is, he`s to breathe life into the same scare tactics that worked so well for the president and the vice president until four weeks ago. But could this be more nefarious than just politics? Could any president really gut free speech in the name of counterterrorism?
TURLEY: They could. I mean, it`s bizarre it would occur in a First Amendment speech. (INAUDIBLE) God knows what he`d say at a Mother`s Day speech.
But, you know, this really could happen. I mean, the fact is that the First Amendment is an abstraction, and when you put up against it the idea of incinerating millions of people, there will be millions of citizens that respond, like some Pavlovian response, and deliver up rights. We`ve already seen that.
People don`t seem to appreciate that you really can`t save a Constitution by destroying it.
OLBERMANN: We asked Mr. Gingrich`s office for the full speech. To their credit, they provided most of it to us, late relative to our deadline. But let me read you a little bit more of this that we`ve just gotten, Jonathan.
"I want to suggest to you that we right now should be impaneling people to look seriously at a level of supervision that we would never dream of, if it were not for the scale of this threat." That`s one quote. "This is a serious, long-term war," Gingrich added, "and it will inevitably lead us to want to know what is said in every suspect place in the country. It will lead us to learn how to close down every Web site that is dangerous."
Jonathan, are there not legal methods already in place to deal with such sites that do not require what Mr. Gingrich has here called "supervision that we would never dream of"?
TURLEY: Well, there are plenty of powers and authorities that could be used to monitor truly dangerous people. But what you see here, I think, is the insatiable appetite that has developed among certain leaders for controlling American society.
We saw that with John Ashcroft not long after 9/11, when he said the critics were aiding and abetting the terrorists. There is this insatiable appetite that develops when you feed absolute power to people like Gingrich.
And people should not assume that these are just going to be fringe candidates, and this could never happen. Fear does amazing things to people, and it could a sort of self-mutilation in a democracy, where we give up the very things, the very rights that define us, and theoretically, the very things that we are defending.
OLBERMANN: So, and also, when you talk about closing down Internet sites, who is the one who`s going to decide which those are? I mean, it could be the Daily Kos, it could be Citizens for Legitimate Government, it could be the sports Web site Dead Spin, for all we know, if they don`t -- if he doesn`t like any one of them in particular.
TURLEY: Well, what these guys don`t understand is that the best defense against bad ideas, like extremism and terrorism, is free speech. That`s what we`ve proven. That`s why they don`t like us, is that we`re remarkably successful as a democracy, because we`ve shown that really bad ideas don`t survive in the marketplace, unless you try to suppress them, unless you try to keep people from speaking. Then it becomes a form of martyrdom. Then you give credence to what they`re saying.
OLBERMANN: Last question, the specific idea about the Internet. There was a story just today out of Toronto that researchers at a Canadian university developed some software that will let users in places like China that have Internet restrictions, the phrase they used were, "hop over government`s Internet firewalls." Might it be that the technology will be our best defense against the Newt Gingriches of this country?
TURLEY: It may be. We may have to rely on our own creativity to overcome the inclinations of people like Newt Gingrich.
OLBERMANN: George Washington University law professor and constitutional law expert, and, I think it`s fair to say, friend of the Constitution, Jonathan Turley. Great thanks, Jon.
TURLEY: Thanks, Keith.
—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
One must eventually come to
November 29, 2006 - 15:30 ET by JDWOne must eventually come to terms with these morons with respect to what they truly are. Olbermann's audience stands atop the PMSNBC nightly brew yet below CNN, and only about 460k viewers. The FOX stations average above 2 million.
No doubt each has 'found their own audience'.
JDW
Kerry: "You know, education, if you make the most of it ... you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
JDW KOLB's audience
November 29, 2006 - 15:56 ET by misterbillJDW KOLB's audience. If your numbers are correct (and I believe they are), the fact that 460,000 people suscribe to this person is frightening to me.
Where are his viewers comin
November 29, 2006 - 16:02 ET by JDWWhere are his viewers coming from?
JDW
Kerry: "You know, education, if you make the most of it ... you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
JDW KOLB's audience
November 29, 2006 - 16:07 ET by misterbillJDW KOLB's audience.
I don't have a clue and to be fair, all I know about him is what I have read here and on places like YouTube. But, the dialogue I have read turns me off on him, It is intensely hate filled and at times doesn't seem logical. Also, some of his published rants seem almost hysterical(not humorously so).
What about news media?JDWKe
November 29, 2006 - 16:30 ET by JDWWhat about news media?
JDW
Kerry: "You know, education, if you make the most of it ... you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
JDW KOLB's audience
November 29, 2006 - 15:57 ET by misterbillooops, darned fingers!
How would Gingrich isolate on
November 29, 2006 - 15:33 ET by crsheddHow would Gingrich isolate only terrorist use of internet sites and free speech? You would have to know who the terrorist is or you would limit internet and free speech of all Americans. And if you know who the terrorists are, arrest them.
DON'T MESS WITH MY CONSTITUTION!!
There are ways to find out, I
November 29, 2006 - 18:53 ET by UnsaneThere are ways to find out, I'm sure. And...the Constitution is INDEED a great thing. (I should know. I have taken oaths to support and defend it against all enemies foreign and domestic.) It is best enjoyed while still living.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
You should have answered his
November 29, 2006 - 18:55 ET byYou should have answered his question. How do you know who the terrorists are? Newt has made an hilariously ridiculous assertion.
Im sure if you look in a mirr
November 29, 2006 - 19:36 ET by Dan The Man 2Im sure if you look in a mirror you will find one.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
The question was answered...t
November 29, 2006 - 22:11 ET by UnsaneThe question was answered...there ARE legal means to find out.
I don't think I will be enjoying my Constitutional rights so much, nor will be too worried about it, if I am being ground up in the digestive tracts of earthworms...
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
I'm sure Gingrich is respondi
November 29, 2006 - 19:52 ET by aeroI'm sure Gingrich is responding to a recently-released al-Qaida plan to use the internet as a tool of jihad. They consider the internet to be just as important a weapon in their jihad as bombs.
See http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/185504.php for more on this.
crshedd I'm exited about Newt's idea
November 29, 2006 - 23:54 ET by SportPoliticscrshedd I'm exited about Newt's idea.
This sounds like the best idea I've heard so far. Slimesites like DailyKos could be wiped from the internet for being on the terrorists side so often. Moulitsas could be locked up for trying to jump the government firewalls.
Posters like you crshedd could be banned from the online community and none would have to listen to your bin laden propaganda anymore.
Can we get an internet backbone v-chip - hooked into Echelon, hopefully, so it can just suck up the offending IP address, translate the internet account from the ISP, and in no time at all we can have the police invading the holes where people like you crshedd will instantly lose your computer, and wind up sitting in jail with no broadband connection ever, and we never have to hear from you again !
This rocks, I say why wait until Newt is President for this. I want the enemies rounded up now, right after they get banned ! This could takedown CNN,ABC,NBC, and CBS, and even MSNBC !
Buh bye liberal traitors ! See ya Olbermann ! Later !
Turley and Olbie go together
November 29, 2006 - 15:33 ET by bigtimerTurley and Olbie go together doncha think?
Dynamic Duo.
Blah blah blah...loony leftist equal defeat of any kind of freedom here, but hey wait, thats what they are striving for....just the leftists idea of freedom as long as it is their power-hold with their agenda.
Pathetic evilness at it's best.
Gingrich
November 29, 2006 - 15:48 ET by chinesearithmeticThis dinner was in Manchester, N.H., where the Loeb patriarch ran the notorious Union-Leader that is said to have derailed Ed Muskie in 1972, so this was no ACLU lovefest. Olbermann's Niemoller bastardization (always pays to have a Bartlett's in the office) trivializes the flesh-and-blood human beings who perished, my grandfather among them.
Free speech is but a small
November 29, 2006 - 15:59 ET by JDWFree speech is but a small aspect, I have considered it as a secondary and controlling option.
The idea of meeting with islamofacist countries and making friends, or literally designing a behind the curtains cut and run, creates the foundation for options to manipulate freedoms like freedom of speech.
JDW
Kerry: "You know, education, if you make the most of it ... you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
When the “Fairness Doctrine
November 29, 2006 - 15:43 ET by Dave RWhen the “Fairness Doctrine” debate rolls around, I wonder if Keithieboy is going to refer to the dims in congress as Nazis. Somehow I seriously doubt it.
Ever notice that when a dim is losing a debate with a conservative, which is usually always, they automatically resort to accusing their opponent as being a fascist or a Nazi? This is really bizarre, given that the Marxist/Leninist libs have far more in common with Nazi’s than do we conservatives. Of course, they also refer to us as racist, hateful, mean-spirited, intolerant and…..all the things that they are……..hey, I may be on to something here.
Actually to be fair, Socialis
November 29, 2006 - 15:52 ET by crsheddActually to be fair, Socialism/Communism is to the left of liberalism and Nazism/Fascism is to the right of conservative, on the political spectrum.
I'm not sure I go along with
November 29, 2006 - 16:06 ET by Dave RI'm not sure I go along with that, as I define fascism as government control of privately owned resources and communisn as government control of government owned resources. In most other aspects, they are really not all that dissimilar.
Both systems are totalitarian in nature and the rights of the individual carry little weight in a fascist society and virtually no weight in a communist society. Everything revolves around the state.
You must also understand that, as Nazi was an acronym for National Socialist German Workers Party, I have always considered Adolf Hitler a left-winger, even though the leftist historians have been very successful at tagging him as a right-winger.
But, that's just me.
Don't rely on a name.Communis
November 29, 2006 - 21:37 ET by crsheddThe Nazi's allowed private ownership of property under strict government control. The Commies don't allow any private ownership of property and strictly control all property. That puts these two totalitarian types of government on opposing ends of the spectrum. That is why the USSR hated Hitler so much (and vice-versa).
Don't rely on a name.
Communist China's legal name is the People's Republic of China (or China, PRC). And there is the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. And, of course, the defunct Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
"The Nazi's allowed priv
November 30, 2006 - 08:20 ET by Indiana Joe"The Nazi's allowed private ownership of property under strict government control. The Commies don't allow any and strictly control all property. That puts these two totalitarian types of government on opposing ends of the spectrum."
No! Not "opposing ends of the spectrum." Not by that definition, which I'll accept. Surely you can't be arguing that "ownership of property under strict government control" and "strictly control[ing] all property" fall on opposite sides of our concept of "property rights," can you?
Not logical, nor rational reasoning. A hair's-breadth difference, at most. HARDLY "opposing ends of the spectrum."
No. You're just wrong. You
November 30, 2006 - 08:36 ET by Jack BauerNo. You're just wrong - and very un-nuanced in you'll pardon my French.
You erroneously use the post revolutionary French Legislative Assembly of 1791 as a linear model of "left" and "right" based on where politicians sat.
(The moderate royalists sat on the right side of the chamber, while the radical Montagnards sat on the left -- hence left and right in politics.)
But that's such a simplistic, black and white paradigm, holding very little credibility for thinking people, when compared to a clash of fundemental beliefs about the levels of state control versus individual rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES.
In fact, you should be using a circular model where the National Socialists and the Communists meet around the back in the circle of totalitarianism and state control.
Ultimately they are the same expression of brutality, repression and intolerance to an opposing ideology.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
Facsism isn't right or left
November 29, 2006 - 19:58 ET by JPninerFacsism isn't right or left, just a strong arm dictator.
Nazism is very LEFT WING, Mein Kampf was one of the more Marxist books ever written, hitlers party was the Socialist party. Read the classic "Road to Serfdom", there is a whole chapter about the Nazi's and Socialism in it.
These people like to say that
November 29, 2006 - 16:17 ET by mattmThese people like to say that "the best defense against extremism is free speech" but when they resort to calling people Nazis isn't that a way of "denying" free speech?
People demonize others to destroy their credibility, thereby nullifying their speech. Demonization is a tactic the Nazis used. So, in calling Newt a Nazi, Olberman is actually behaving like one.
Even more sinister
November 29, 2006 - 17:41 ET by Jonah JohansenThe purpose of the hard lefts focus on "conservatives are facists" theme is not to discredit the right, it is to lay the groundwork for silencing the right.
zactly
November 29, 2006 - 19:14 ET by mattmzactly
Some thoughts about Herr Olbe
November 29, 2006 - 16:22 ET by Mr. KafirSome thoughts about Herr Olbermann:
Amen to that Mr. Kafir!!Btw..
November 29, 2006 - 16:32 ET by bigtimerAmen to that Mr. Kafir!!
Btw....I can see why he never married, there are women in their right mind left!
"Olbermann is 47, neve
November 29, 2006 - 16:33 ET by Uncle John"Olbermann is 47, never been married and has no children."
Not that there's anything wrong with that (wink wink, nudge nudge).
Amazing. Read the character
November 29, 2006 - 17:03 ET by JDWAmazing. Read the characteristics and think of party resemblances.
Fräulein Dowd...
JDW
Kerry: "You know, education, if you make the most of it ... you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
Newt gets it. I hope he runs
November 29, 2006 - 19:02 ET by aeroNewt gets it. I hope he runs for president.
Yeah aero. Newt 2K8. That
November 29, 2006 - 19:06 ET byYeah aero. Newt 2K8. That's just what we need, another adulterer in the office of the Presidency.
How come you all cried like women when King Clinton cheated on his wife, but you let old Newt boy slide.
You silly NBers. Your lack of consistency in your viewpoints and values would be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening.
And you libs said Clinton's a
November 29, 2006 - 19:14 ET by aeroAnd you libs said Clinton's actions were his own private business and had no bearing on his job (even though he did it in his office, while working for us, and lied under oath about it), but I'm sure you'll flog Newt's and Rudy's "indiscretions" for the next two years anyway. Which is it? Is a person's sex life his own business and not fodder for politics, or is it fair game? Who's inconsistent?
And, by the way, I'm allowed to cry like a woman because I am one. ;-)
Right, and I don't talk trash
November 29, 2006 - 19:20 ET byRight, and I don't talk trash about Newt. He did what he wanted to do. I have no control over his life, nor do I judge him.
The point is that you support him while bashing clinton for the same behavior. How can you explain this?. This makes you a hypocrite. That's fine with me so long as you know.
"That's just what we nee
November 30, 2006 - 08:26 ET by Indiana Joe"That's just what we need, another adulterer in the office of the Presidency."
"Right, and I don't talk trash about Newt."
LIAR!!!
<edit> A bit harsh, in hindsight. I'll just say, "You contradict yourself."
Better... <end edit>
Gee, that was easy!!!
aero---------- Newt
November 29, 2006 - 19:21 ET by misterbillaero---------- Newt
Ignore the troll-- so far Newt is the only one with a plan. His eleven point plan is right on. His personal life is his personal life. When Clinton made his mistakes he made them while on the clock. He was in the White House for heaven's sake. Even then, although not a Clinton devotee, I felt that his indiscretions were a matter for him and Hillary to handle, not the MSM and/or the Pubs.
I believe Newt has the capability to be one of America's great presidents.
If he can get Condi or Zell to run with him ---Wow!!!!
There are some other good VP candidates , but I happen to like Zell the best. What, you say he is a registered Democrat? He is also a conservative, patriotic American.
True about being on the clock
November 29, 2006 - 19:23 ET byTrue about being on the clock, but didn't Newt lead the charge against Clinton while getting his on the side?
that's major hypocrisy. That's Ted Haggard territory.
Clintoon did it all by his lo
November 29, 2006 - 19:28 ET by bigtimerClintoon did it all by his lonesome...no one else to blame but the pathetic creature he has to face every morning when he looks in the mirror Syg...
So did Newt. What's your po
November 29, 2006 - 19:30 ET bySo did Newt. What's your point?
My point (i'll slow down for you):
- You attack Clinton for having an affair, call him a scum bag, etc.
- You support Newt, think he's great, despite his having an affair
What does this equal? Hypocrisy, plain and simple.
Ugh. Can't stand it. Here'a p
November 29, 2006 - 19:41 ET by aeroUgh. Can't stand it. Here'a pellet for the troll.
I and many other conservatives have a problem with adultery, but when someone commits it on his own time it's between him, his spouse, and God to sort out the consequences. Most of us who wanted to see Clinton impeached did so because he BROKE THE LAW, not because he got a little somethin-somethin on the side. He lied under oath, for Heaven's sake! And, as has been stated repeatedly, he did it on the clock, in the Oval Office. Totally out of line by anyone's standards, I would think.
I am disappointed with Newt and Rudy that they both apparently share this flaw. But their circumstances are nowhere near being on a level with what Clinton did. Yes, it hurts my perceptions of their personal character. But when it comes down to it, as misterbill said, Newt is the only one so far with a PLAN, and it makes total sense. If the libs ever come up with a plan (HA!), he'll eat them alive in a debate about the issues.
Ok whatever you say. Thanks
November 29, 2006 - 19:47 ET byOk whatever you say. Thanks for at least answering. But don't get me wrong, isn't it us libs that are supposed to have a flexible morality system? Aren't conservatives supposed to be dialectic, ultimate truths and such. Isn't that one reason why we liberals are considered Godless?
So I guess you're just a postmodernist trapped inside a rigid conservative. You're able to attach a value to different forms of adultery in order to support some while condemning others. That's pretty convenient. Glad you answered, just wanted to make sure.
There's no problem with my mo
November 29, 2006 - 20:15 ET by aeroThere's no problem with my moral compass. I disapprove of adultery. I didn't vote for Clinton because he was a bad leader, a bad president, and a bad man in general. I would vote for Newt because he would make a good president who understands the stakes of the War on Terror. Every potential candidate is flawed--I have to choose which flaws I will accept in my president, based primarily on which candidate(s) I think will best be able to keep me and my children alive through the current global war against people who say every day that they want to kill us all. That trumps an extramarital affair, don't you agree?
What I don't understand is wh
November 29, 2006 - 22:16 ET by UnsaneWhat I don't understand is why Clinton could have mentioned his affair under oath and maintained secrecy (to be uncovered a half-century or so later). He was the freakin' President of the United States and I am positive that could have been accomodated!
No, I do not approve of adultery, or what Clinton did, but I wouldn't care (then it would have been between him and his reflection in the mirror) if he didn't lie about it under oath. If it were you or I, we would be turning big rocks into little rocks for awhile.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Oh and before I forget, based
November 29, 2006 - 19:48 ET byOh and before I forget, based on your post I assume that you are looking forward to libby being convicted for lying under oath, right? I mean, just to keep your beliefs consistent and all.
We are looking foward to a fa
November 29, 2006 - 19:51 ET by Dan The Man 2We are looking foward to a fair trial for Libby, are u not?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
Yep. He's innocent until prov
November 29, 2006 - 19:57 ET by aeroYep. He's innocent until proven guilty, but if he's guilty he should absolutely be punished. Same with Tom DeLay, William Jefferson, and all others currently being investigated or prosecuted. IF they are proven guilty, they should be punished.
major hypocrisy
November 29, 2006 - 19:33 ET by misterbillI didn't want to get into this because I feel it is the business of the spouses involved, but when did Newt get his trim in the Oval Room?????
When did he say to America "I have never had sexual relations with that woman."?
You changed the tenor of this discourse with your rebuttal of the facts in your last post about it.
Do I think Newt was an innocent, no , far from it. I feel that Newt's circumstances were those of many people as they go through life. Did Bill leave Hillary and marry her?? Come on , that's as far afield as your sample correlation example. And as for Ted Haggard--I know so little about it that I have to take your word for that. It's just that I did not know that Newt or Bill were homosexual until your post!
Misterbill. I am not talkin
November 29, 2006 - 19:40 ET byMisterbill. I am not talking about the details of their affairs, I'm merely talking about the fact that they both cheated.
Furthermore, I mentioned haggard as an obvious example of hypocrisy (aka condemning homosexuals to hell while smoking meth and making out with dudes). Wow, open up wide, here comes the plaaane. I have to spoon feed you everything?
syg your points are dulled
November 29, 2006 - 19:49 ET by misterbillsyg your points are dulled by your insults. Of course I know what you were addressing you were trying to make Newt's infidelity equal to Bill's and indeed it was. Infidelity is infidelity. IT WAS NOT DONE IN THE OVAL ROOM> Did you understand that???
Newt did not say "I NEVER HAD SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN" on public television. What part of that do you not understand/??
And the aprt about Newt marrying the woman, what is there in that that you cannot absorb???
Again, the only thing I know about Haggard is that he had some kind of liaison with a man. Please forgive me if my personal tastes kept me from reading the entire story. I should not expect better from someone using dog:cat and up:down in a comparison test.
I love Zell! I think he gave
November 29, 2006 - 19:28 ET by aeroI love Zell! I think he gave the best speech at the last Republican Convention--he covered the conservative agenda better than the Republican speakers did! I felt like standing up and cheering when he was done. He's one of the few Democrats I like and admire.
He was absolutely great in th
November 29, 2006 - 19:37 ET by bigtimerHe was absolutely great in the Senate and it is to bad not many people heard his floor speeches....Give 'em Hell Zell was his own man in the Senate...the left treated him as poison, it was pathetic.
I have posted before and will again, I would vote for him in a minute anywhere anytime...btw I did stand up and cheer when he made that speech at the convention...'what...with spitballs?!' That was a great line!
I also loved what he did to Matthews....it was priceless! Duel anyone?
So.......hard.......not.....t
November 29, 2006 - 19:32 ET by aeroSo.......hard.......not.....to.....feed.....the.......troll..........
Aaaaaarrrrrghhhh!!!!
Aero - answer the question.
November 29, 2006 - 19:38 ET byAero - answer the question. Don't avoid reality with weak jokes.
How can you disparage one man for having an affair while fully supporting another? it's a simple question that requires a simple answer.
Stop playing games and admit your hypocrisy.
President Clinton had sex wit
November 29, 2006 - 19:43 ET by Dan The Man 2President Clinton had sex with an intern, clearly a case of sexual harrassment and something I would get fired for even if no party was offended. He lied about it, on national TV and face to the American public and in a court of law thereby perjuring himself. There are many more transgressions President Clinton made but too long to list, tehy are mostly abuses of his office and selling governmnety property and secrets.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
It's not sexual harassment to
November 29, 2006 - 19:50 ET byIt's not sexual harassment to have sexual relations with a consenting adult. It's just called sex.
I agree, he lied. No doubt. He was impeached for it and I agree it is wrong to lie. I'm merely asking how you can support one adulterer over another.
As far as your accusations about Clinton's other transgressions save it for your conservative kool aid party. If you all would stop complaining about clinton all the time you might let W get away with murder like he has been. Just a side note.
The President is CEO of the n
November 29, 2006 - 19:58 ET by Dan The Man 2The President is CEO of the nation as such an intern is directly subordinate to him. And any sexual advances by him is considered sexual harrassment by current law. A superior cannot make sexual advances, inuindos or any hanky panky with a subordinate. Any party that is party to andy hanky panky or sees this going on is allowed to claim sexual harrassment and has a good case under current law. If I were to see 2 coworkers doing hanky panky in earshot eyeshot then I could file a suit because they are not supposed to do that at work.
I know you do understand but want to act the Troll so figure it out for yourself.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
one man, syg?
November 29, 2006 - 19:46 ET by tumblerWe disparage one man and denounce both those affairs.
We denounce and rebuke Clinton because he's a born liar who ruined lives.
Gingrich may be disparaged by you and me only for the affair. Not for lying or ruining the lives of many people. Newt in fact improved the lives of Americans. Even if we have to denounce the infidelities he's guilty of. Clinton was born and will die a complete scoundrel. Newt will live to become famous as a President. One of the finest. Why?
Because he's a Republican, Silly.
/
He sure ruined his families l
November 29, 2006 - 19:51 ET byHe sure ruined his families life. Oh and last time I checked 3,000 American soldiers and 150,000 Iraqis didn't die because of Clinton and an illegal, ill-planned, war that has been treated like an afterthought for the past 3 years.
SyggieHey... friend of I am C
November 29, 2006 - 20:00 ET by bigtimerSyggie
Hey... friend of I am Candida....we are in this mess because Clinton the gutless wonder did nothing about Osama even when he was offered up to him on a silver platter you troll.
You ought to be on your knees showing appreciation, humbleness to our military and yes our President for fighting the enemy...something you and your ilk seem to purposely forget we are fighting, they are world-wide, do some reading and research.
Be thankful you have the right to spew your rhetoric in this country because of the brave men and women who have died to give you that right you ungrateful fool.
How is this war illegal, when
November 29, 2006 - 22:20 ET by UnsaneHow is this war illegal, when sanctioned by 16 UN Resolutions, and bipartisan (!) votes in Congress?
I know...it is an inconvenience that is keeping you and your ilk from turning the government into One Great Big Charity...
Oh, and name a war that went perfectly as planned. For instance, when the West German Mark was reintroduced to West Germany in their economic union, that act necessitated Operation Vittles, that cost the lives of 70 Brits and Americans. THAT wasn't planned...
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Unsane....You forget that the
November 29, 2006 - 22:26 ET by Clear thinkerUnsane....
You forget that the war is illegal because the libs say so.
Actually, according to all Le
November 29, 2006 - 22:31 ET by UnsaneActually, according to all Leftists, if we just dissolved our military and concentrated our efforts on finding the real terrorists (Hyper Evil Rich Leeches and successful corporations), world peace would break out everywhere and even hardened Islamic terrorists would instantaneously fall in love with us because then they would see just how nice we are.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Lefties are like teenagers t
November 29, 2006 - 22:39 ET by Clear thinkerLefties are like teenagers thinking if you wish hard enough you will never get a zit.
And righties are like old men
November 29, 2006 - 22:46 ET by balboaAnd righties are like old men trying to send back soup at a deli.
(ah, the Words of Costanza :-D )
On Seinfeld
November 29, 2006 - 23:05 ET by UnsaneI hated that damn show...
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
How about "Righties are like
November 29, 2006 - 23:08 ET by balboaHow about "Righties are like the Spanish Inquisition. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition."
Balboa
November 29, 2006 - 23:07 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Hey! You're not allowed to use Seinfeld lines to disparage conservatives in one of my threads. Got that, buster?!?
Now that we've got that settled, have you seen this: http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid203712201/bclid192880073/bctid335844850?
ns
Noel
November 29, 2006 - 23:15 ET by balboaI apologize! I'm sorry!
And yeah, I saw that National Lampoon clip. Hilarious! (and frankly the funniest thing they've done in decades)
Balboa
November 29, 2006 - 23:16 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Wait a minute. You saw this, and didn't share it with me? You want to get banned? ns
Noel
November 29, 2006 - 23:25 ET by balboaEek! No! It's been a long day! My Internet was down! I had a flat tire! The sun was in my eyes!
In case you've missed out, though, you should watch this bit of genius:
http://www.defamer.c...
Balboa
November 29, 2006 - 23:31 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Strike two. No longer available. I'd put in a pinch-hitter, because you're this close, pal!!! :-) ns
Sorry! Here it is on ifilm: h
November 29, 2006 - 23:42 ET by balboaSorry! Here it is on ifilm: http://www.ifilm.com...
Balboa
November 29, 2006 - 23:53 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Not bad. ns
Noel
November 30, 2006 - 00:01 ET by balboaI like it just because I think Lucas is so clueless, and this makes fun of him meddling with something that doesn't need meddling (see Star Wars redo). He ruined the 3 prequel movies by taking himself too seriously.
Balboa
November 30, 2006 - 00:14 ET by Noel SheppardB,
Gotcha. I didn't pick that up, for I was expecting something different when I saw the opening. However, I'm one of those people who really liked Episode III. I hated the first two, but really liked III. ns
I ran out of gas. I had a f
November 29, 2006 - 23:36 ET by hydrodynDMI ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for
cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came
in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A
terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.
ROTFLMAO!!!! I was just WAI
November 30, 2006 - 08:39 ET by Indiana JoeROTFLMAO!!!!
I was just WAITING to see THAT ONE!!! A TRUE classic!!!
Nice catch, hydro!!!
I agree. And when Clinton pro
November 30, 2006 - 11:35 ET by Roger the ShrubberI agree. And when Clinton promised that US troops would be out of the Balkans by Christmas 1995, those troops would surely not be still there eleven years later...
150,000 Iraqis didn't die bec
November 30, 2006 - 11:38 ET by Jack Bauer150,000 Iraqis didn't die because of Clinton
But half a million Rwandans were macheted to death because Clinton did FA to stop it.
Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex
<sigh> See my reply abo
November 29, 2006 - 19:46 ET by aero<sigh> See my reply above, Syg.
<sigh, sigh> It's dinne
November 29, 2006 - 20:12 ET by misterbill<sigh, sigh> It's dinner time in misterbill's house. Mommy won't let me play with SYG anymore. He is all yours. Good luck, fair lady.
<curtsy> I bid you adie
November 29, 2006 - 20:20 ET by aero<curtsy> I bid you adieu, Sir Bill. Enjoy your dinner. I'm having roasted troll, myself. Yum. ;-)
Cooked til tender I bet aero.
November 29, 2006 - 20:23 ET by bigtimerCooked til tender I bet aero....
LMAO!
Well, we've fattened him up n
November 29, 2006 - 20:31 ET by aeroWell, we've fattened him up nicely by feeding him so much tonight, so he should be nice and juicy.
Response
November 29, 2006 - 23:43 ET by CRDYou respond like an angry child . Grow up ! We're not on the playground now. Act and speak like an adult.
Little Miss Manners speaks.
November 29, 2006 - 23:50 ET by BlondeLittle Miss Manners speaks.
Hunh? Is this another troll,
November 30, 2006 - 00:08 ET by aeroHunh? Is this another troll, then, or did I commit some faux pas of which I'm unaware? I'm fairly new here, so please enlighten me. Last time I checked, I've been writing lucidly, pointedly, and maturely throughout this thread--except for a little teasing here and there (I'm pretty sure from my short acquaintance with him/her that Syg can take it). Did my little tongue-in-cheek exchange with misterbill and bigtimer offend?
CRD just likes to toss a gren
November 30, 2006 - 00:26 ET by UnsaneCRD just likes to toss a grenade from time to time and then runs off. Pay no mind.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
aero
November 30, 2006 - 00:32 ET by misterbillas I said in another blog --some of them are not trolls but troglodytes!
CRuD waaaaaaaaaaaa!
November 30, 2006 - 00:31 ET by misterbillyou have hurt my feelings. Come on attack dog. Let's see if we can muzzle you.
aero...I totally agree. Out o
November 29, 2006 - 20:29 ET by Clear thinkeraero...
I totally agree. Out of the contenders we have so far I like Newt and will support him if he runs. Not only will we get a conservative, but we get a conservative with superior intelect.
I'd vote for him just to see
November 29, 2006 - 20:34 ET by bigtimerI'd vote for him just to see the media have a heart attack after what they did to him...especially CNN...that was when they had all the power. Woodruff leading the charge.
Btw...I really like Newt too, always have. I also like Romney. I hope Allen still goes for it....look at what Webb is doing just today, hope Va. is proud. LOL!
'08 is a long way off politically speaking that is...going to be interesting.
Yeah it's pretty darn funny t
November 29, 2006 - 20:40 ET by Clear thinkerYeah it's pretty darn funny that voters were warned about Webb being a pig and then he does this. I would like to walk behind VA democrats squawking "oink, oink, oink".
Response
November 29, 2006 - 23:53 ET by CRDintelect ?
Kind of hard to argue with a
November 30, 2006 - 00:06 ET by UnsaneKind of hard to argue with a Ph.D. in History in the intellect category.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Response
November 30, 2006 - 00:16 ET by CRDWas he the married guy who was banging his assistant while demanding that Clinton be impeached for screwing Monica ?
CRD, What exactly where the
November 30, 2006 - 00:38 ET by hydrodynDMCRD,
What exactly where the charges against Clinton that led to impeachment?
You sure he was impeached for "screwing Monica"?
Response
November 30, 2006 - 00:49 ET by CRDOK, Let's put NG under oath and ask him about his sexual tryst with members of his congressional staff.
CRD
November 30, 2006 - 01:30 ET by SportPoliticsNewt Gingrich and Bob Livingston stepped down.
Slick willie the whore/rapist didn't. So, you're a whore/rapist supporter.
CRD wrote: Was he the married
November 30, 2006 - 00:47 ET by aeroYes. That would be him. Evil Newt wanted to punish the president for committing perjury. But I can see how Clinton's felony doesn't count if Newt was having an affair.
Ever notice how libs immediately start to bash Newt for infidelity? They never stop to discuss his plan for the future, his stance on any issues, etc. They just go straight for the infidelity. I guess that means they know they can't win against Newt's ideas, so they go for the dirty stuff.
As I wrote in response to Syg earlier, I thought libs believe that people's sexual activity is their own business (a la Clinton/Lewinsky) and not a factor in a politician's career (except when Republicans do it--then it must be the very first thing we talk about). You can't get mad at us for criticizing Clinton's extramarital adventures and then do it yourself. Either you can't go after a politician's sexual activity or you can. You guys were the ones who said it was off limits!
Response
November 30, 2006 - 00:59 ET by CRDA person sexual activity is their own business. Where the Republican blew it was requiring Clinton to testify under oath about this activity. They set the standard for all future investigations and under oath testimony concerning personal behavior. Now that it has the potential to bite them in the ass they complain that the other side only wants to focus on
sordid extramarital affairs.
Wow. Those are some serious b
November 30, 2006 - 01:16 ET by aeroWow. Those are some serious blinders you've got on, CRD. Something tells me it's useless to try to debate the details of Clinton's impeachment with you, or try to explain why it doesn't apply to Newt.
But I will say that I'm not "complaining that the other side only wants to focus on extramarital affairs" because, as a Newt supporter, it's "biting me in the a**." I'm pointing out the FACT that, both times a liberal has joined this discussion today, the first and only thing they had to say about Newt was to bring up his "sordid extramarital affair." Neither of you seemed to know a darned thing about his policies and thoughts on any actual issues, nor do you seem to care. I'm just pointing out the kneejerk reaction that both of you had to the idea of Newt running for president--a petty taunt at best.
aero - do you mean
November 30, 2006 - 01:32 ET by SportPoliticsaero - do you mean, CRD and the other liberal hypocrit made it "all about sex" ?
That's correct. They both bro
November 30, 2006 - 01:48 ET by aeroThat's correct. They both brought up sex as quickly as they possibly could and refused to drop it, even though they both claimed that a politician's sexual activity is his own business.
Response
November 30, 2006 - 21:37 ET by CRDIt was until the Right wanted Clinton to testify under oath about his involvement with Monica
Lewisky and then proceeded to impeach him when he lied. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. From that moment on all private behavior of any elected official republican /democrat or otherwise became completely politicized. If Newt, Rudy or any candidate has
issues around fidelity etc. every aspect of their private lives will be dissected. The republicans went down this road and now they have to live with the results.
I suggest that every candidate for the presidency in 2008 submit to questioning under oath about their sexual history thereby going on record before the campaign regarding these matters. They can tell the truth or lie. Their choice, and then the public can decide who they want to give their vote to.
Response
November 30, 2006 - 21:59 ET by CRDWhen you guys couldn't beat Clinton at the polls it quickly became all about sex.
Quickly? Really? It quickly b
December 1, 2006 - 02:50 ET by aeroQuickly? Really? It quickly became all about sex? The impeachment was, what, six years after we "couldn't beat Clinton at the polls"? You have an odd definition of the word "quickly." Poor Paula Jones had to try for even longer than that to try to get her lawsuit heard. She would have liked nothing better than for the public discussion to be "all about sex" since before Clinton was even elected to the presidency. She and several others accused him of rape, remember? Rape! I can't believe I'm still trying to explain to you the difference between Clinton and, well, everyone else.
The person most responsible for making the Clinton White House "all about sex" was Bill Clinton. And until he stupidly lied under oath about it, Congress had nothing to impeach him about. The impeachment was for lying under oath. Repeat after me: Clinton got impeached because he lied under oath. NOT because the Republicans in Congress couldn't stop thinking about sex.
Oh yeah, and...A person [sic]
November 30, 2006 - 01:30 ET by aeroOh yeah, and...
If you believe that, then live it. Regardless of what Republicans did or said to or about your hero Bill Clinton, if you really believe that a person's sexual activity is their own business, then drop the subject of Newt's infidelity. Seriously. If you believe it, live it. Show us nasty, awful Republicans how it ought to be. If you don't think it's right to go after politicians' sexual indiscretions, then don't do it. Lead by example, CRD!
aero
November 30, 2006 - 01:34 ET by SportPoliticsCRD can't do that aero, since CRD is a skum sucking bottom feeding lying hypocrit troll.
Now, now, SportPolitics, let'
November 30, 2006 - 01:41 ET by aeroNow, now, SportPolitics, let's not resort to name-calling. :-) Noel likes us to stay civil on his threads. CRD is simply logic-challenged. And conveniently doesn't seem to recall crucial details that would challenge his/her version of reality.
Response
November 30, 2006 - 20:25 ET by CRDDon't try to sweet talk me.
Response
November 30, 2006 - 21:42 ET by CRDClinton's not my hero. He lied under oath. But the same rules should apply to all candidates
whether we like their politics or not.
Well, we tried to punish some
December 1, 2006 - 01:49 ET by UnsaneWell, we tried to punish someone for lying under oath...you know, the same offense that would have gotten us little people a free ticket to The Slam?
As stated, it didn't matter to me until he committed perjury. JFK committed adultery and no one said a peep...but then, he never had to be sworn in to testify either.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Paula Jones required Clinton
November 30, 2006 - 08:57 ET by Indiana JoePaula Jones required Clinton to "testify under oath about this activity" by filing a "sexual-harassment" lawsuit against him. I guess you COULD argue that she was "put up to it" by the Republicans, but it was a SUBPOENA from a JUDGE that compelled the testimony.
And led to the perjury.
aero You got it
November 30, 2006 - 01:01 ET by misterbillaero You got it. I have been on for 24 weeks. It's only in the past few weeks that I have had lots of exposure to libthink. I sometimes get silly and post some sarcastic or childish responses. I have apologized a couple of times because I should not sink to the insult level. Nothing is gained there. Some of the libdrivebys come in and feel the only way to prove a point is by name calling. Some of them are quite smart, but a few are not. Those are the bad guys--the attack dogs. Have fun with them because on the web their teeth are not long enough to bite. Let them sit in their own angry drool while you have some fun.
"Libthink," as you
November 30, 2006 - 01:20 ET by aero"Libthink," as you call it, can make you go cross-eyed! Doesn't seem to rely on logic or facts very much, does it?
I like you, misterbill. Thanks for having fun with me today. :-)
The difference is that Newt d
November 30, 2006 - 08:50 ET by UnsaneThe difference is that Newt didn't lie under oath about it, at which point I would demand he lose his office as well. You see, if you bothered to read this entire thread, I didn't, and don't, care what Mr. Greatthings (Clinton) does in that regard...HE is the one that has to face himself in the mirror in the morning. However, once he lied about it under oath...and I maintain he could have been accomodated...it was on. You see, if you or I committed perjury and were caught, we would be turning Big Rocks Into Little Rocks for awhile.
It helps to not be a party hack and adhere to a political philosophy.
By the way, you mentioned intellect, I mentioned Newt's Ph. D., and then you began screaming about this whole adultery business. Care to enlighten me as to how the two intersect?
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Unsane, since CRD seems unlik
November 30, 2006 - 11:58 ET by aeroUnsane, since CRD seems unlikely to answer, I will enlighten you. She (he?) was not commenting on or questioning Newt's intellect--she doesn't care that he is incredibly intelligent and well-educated (not sordid or negative). She was just making fun of another commenter's spelling error. She mockingly wrote "intelect?" and ran off for awhile. When you took her cute little grenade as an actual question, she responded by changing the subject to the only thing libs apparently have to say about Newt--his affair.
Hit and run hand grenades
November 30, 2006 - 17:11 ET by UnsaneGo figure. Intellectual honesty is a concept Leftists are not familiar with. Hence CRDs tactics.
"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)
Whenever I see some left-wi
November 30, 2006 - 14:20 ET by Tom1969caWhenever I see some left-wing hack (like Olbermann) launch into a "conservatives are Nazis" rant, I remember a column Jonah Goldberg wrote in January 2001 on National Review Online (and which I still have bookmarked), in which he asks liberals, "Aside from the murder and genocide, what exactly don’t you like about National Socialism?" It's a really good read - have a look!
~~~
"Government should only do what only government can do."
-- Prime Minister Kim Campbell, 1993
hey remember that one time
November 30, 2006 - 17:08 ET by CCCPhey remember that one time when the Democrats didn't want blacks to vote? yea me too.....a new slogan for a republican....."Republican....the party that wanted blacks to vote ever since 1865"
Response
November 30, 2006 - 22:08 ET by CRDYeah, up until 1964.