In Clunky Newscasts, NBC News Decrees Iraq In 'Civil War' [Transcript Included]

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On this morning's Today show, as first noted here, NBC News officially declared Iraq to be in a state of civil war as Today co-host Matt Lauer greeted viewers with the following announcement: "As you know for months now the White House has rejected claims that the situation in Iraq has deteriorated into civil war and for the most part news organizations like NBC have hesitated to characterize it as such but after careful consideration NBC News has decided a change in terminology is warranted. That the situation in Iraq with armed militarized factions fighting for their own political agendas can now be characterized as civil war. We're gonna have more on the situation on the ground in Iraq and on our decision coming up."

Later in the 7am half hour Lauer elaborated on the policy with General Barry McCaffrey: "We, we should mention we just didn't wake up on a Monday morning and say, 'Let's call this a civil war.' This took careful deliberation, we consulted with a lot of people. You were one of the people we talked to. Why did you weigh in on the side of calling this a civil war?"

In addition to pitting themselves at direct odds with the White House, NBC News' decision to declare Iraq in a state of civil war made for a clunky newscast, especially for newsreader Ann Curry. In her hourly news updates on Iraq Curry was forced to add variations of "what NBC News has decided to now call a civil war in Iraq."

First Curry at 8:02am: "Just days after returning from Asia, President Bush is on his way overseas again today. The President has a crucial meeting on Wednesday in Jordan with the prime minister of Iraq. They will discuss what NBC News has decided to now call a civil war in Iraq. Though the White House maintains while the situation in Iraq is serious it has not disintegrated into civil war. The President goes first to Estonia then to a NATO summit in Latvia."

Then at 9:01 am Curry repeated the awkward phraseology: "In the news this morning today President Bush is on his way to Europe with Iraq getting the most of his attention. He is heading first to Estonia then to a NATO summit in Latvia. On Wednesday he goes to Jordan to meet with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki to talk about what NBC News is now calling a civil war in Iraq."

The following is the entire transcript of Lauer's interview with Barry McCaffrey on the November 27th Today show:

Matt Lauer: "So is the situation in Iraq a civil war or is it something else? Retired General Barry McCaffrey is a military analyst for NBC News. General, good morning to you."

Gen. Barry McCaffrey: "Yeah, hi Matt."

Lauer: "We, we should mention we just didn't wake up on a Monday morning and say, 'Let's call this a civil war.' This took careful deliberation, we consulted with a lot of people. You were one of the people we talked to. Why did you weigh in on the side of calling this a civil war?"

McCaffrey: "Well Matt, to be honest I've been calling it a civil war, low grade conflict, for 18 months. Now it's on the verge of spinning out of control. We clearly, without question, have massive levels of violence. Thousands are being killed each month and, and it's a struggle without question between two factions, in this case Shia and Kurds, who have separate political agendas. It's a fight for power and therefore survival in the world Iraqis expect to encounter after we withdraw, which, which they now believe is gonna happen in the coming year or so."

Lauer: "Alright let me go into these criteria a little bit more. So we've got warring groups coming from the same country. I'm going into the definition of civil war here. Must be at least two clearly defined and unified groups and we talk about the Sunnis and the Shia. We've got groups using violence as a means to gain political supremacy and we've got a government in place that's unable to control the violence and protect not only the Sunnis and Shia from each other but innocent civilians as well. Any of that bother you in terms of the criteria?"

McCaffrey: "No, not at all."

Lauer: "Alright so, so, so the question is we have some other situations. For example there aren't just two groups here. Not just the Sunnis and the Shia there are other groups as well. Does that complicate the situation?"

McCaffrey: "Well I think there's also a foreign jihadist element, which is struggling, you know jihad to establish the caliphate. There's also a breakdown of governance on the part of a very dysfunctional Maliki administration where criminality is rife throughout the country. These other phenomena are also there. But the central reality is survival in the post-U.S. Iraq between Shia and Sunni."

Lauer: "As we mentioned the White House objects to the terminology that NBC News is now using and here's part of the statement they released. 'While the situation on the ground is very serious neither Prime Minister Maliki nor we believe that Iraq is in a civil war.' It goes on to say, 'The violence is primarily centered around Baghdad and Baghdad security and the increased training of Iraqi security forces is at the top of the agenda when President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki meet later this week in Jordan.' What about that idea, General, that the violence is primarily centered in Baghdad? That the country hasn't erupted into all out civil war?"

McCaffrey: "Well I think a lot of that's nonsense. Baghdad is 25 percent of the population of the country. It's the central battlefield but most of the contested areas involve anywhere, where there are mixed populations. They are fighting for Kirkuk, Mosul, even in Basra. There are 300,000 Sunni down there, put down there as settlers by Saddam-"

Lauer: "Right."

McCaffrey: "-and there are also refugees fleeing the country."

Lauer: "Let's look at history here. When you look at the history of civil war, conflicts like this around the world they are rarely if ever, settled, until a military force or a government sides with one of the groups fighting. So where does that leave us? Is this a situation where the U.S. military or another government forces gonna have to side with either the Sunnis or the Shia to make this come to an end?"

McCaffrey: "Well that's the sad part of it. I think civil wars do end up being settled by violence. In this case the preponderance will be a Shia and Kurd majority and the question is how will it play out in the coming 12 to 24 months. We won't stay and suppress an urban civil war. The Iraqis are gonna have to do it. We have not resourced this effort adequately in particular with equipment, light armor, helicopters, an air force. These people are not prepared to maintain internal order so we won't be able to withdraw without seeing a huge conflagration go up immediately."

Lauer: "General Barry McCaffrey. General, thanks for your time this morning, I appreciate it."

—Geoffrey Dickens is the senior news analyst at the Media Research Center.


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who?

"We consulted with a lot of people"

I can't help but wonder what this statement actually means.  I would love to hear the full list of people consulted.  I suspect it includes the legions of scholars in the NBC newsroom as well as the acclaimed mid-east conflict experts Chris Matthews and Kieth Olberman.   

The List:former war "her

The List:

former war "heros": John Kerry, Murtha, Ect...

Green Helmet

and the PLO

who the f****

Who the f*** appointed that a$$h00e as the history laureate of the US? He has been smelling his own BS so long that he doesn't even notice it.

Q Part 2 What the hell is happening to us that retired military leaders come back to challenge the leader?? I am always glad to see  some differences of opinion, but I am troubled by the volume and size coming out of people like McCaffrey and Clark.

misterbill,Wesley Clarke is a

misterbill,

Wesley Clarke is a four-star idiot.  With political ambitions.  Nuff said about him.

As to the rest of them, I haven't a clue....why don't they just pull a MacArthur and "fade away"? 

MacArthur

My guess as to why they won't fade away is that they never accomplished anything on the scale of MacArtur in their lives.

It's unfortunate that we have

It's unfortunate that we have so few real leaders anymore. A real leader leads because they know what the right thing to do is, then they go do it. Not for money, not for recognition, and not for p[ower, only because it's the right thing to do. The same cannot be said about some of our modern day leaders.

CT a memory jog

CT a memory jog--do you remember when the snipers were potting people in Sarajevo? In the 90s? I was living in Tampa at the time. The news showed a woman whose son (a very young boy) was dropped by a sniper. As he lay (dying??)on the sidewalk, his Mom went to him and the sniper shot her. It drove me to rage and tears. At a party about a week later. I spoke to a Colonel (Army) in my neighborhood. I said somehow, someway we had to help. He had just returned from some special school for executive officers. I didn't know him well. He proceeded to  tell me all the reasons why we shouldn't help, especially citing dollars and cents. I made an enemy that night. I said that I hoped America was training more warriors and less accountants, because we would eventually wind up in our own shit storm. You may not agrre with me but I want my soldiers, sailors, marines and coast guard to be warriors first and diplomats second and accountants last. I never spoke to the Colonel again even though we lived near each other for two more years.

So you made an enemy with t

So you made an enemy with this colonel because the cold hard truths he told you made you upset? You essentially killed the messenger rather than focusing your anger on the military's priorities. It's a shame as I'm sure, like all of our men and women in service, he was a loyal american who followed the orders he was given.

blogonator

If you have read any of my other posts, you must know that I am one of the military's biggest fans. But I disagree with you about the Colonel and the issue.

There are times when the financial costs of something are far outweighed by  what is right and what is wrong. I am a loyal American who has served and I followed the orders I was given. You are way out of line here or I do not know how to express myself properly. I do not, when discussing military aggression against civilians, expect a dissertation on the cost of war. As you know, eventually the United Nations got involved  and the issue was (somewhat) resolved. When it was decided to step in and stop the killing of civilians and destruction of their homes and property, no one ever posted how much it would cost, they just did what was right.

Some trials are still going on, as you know.

I'm not familiar with your

I'm not familiar with your previous posts. I didn't realize there were prerequisites to reading and responding to your post here. I just read and responded to what you wrote about resenting a military man for (seemingly) telling you something you didn't want to hear.

I see too many around here who don't want to know about negative news in Iraq, as if not hearing it makes it not true. Now that I know you're military, I won't mistake you with these people who don't understand war or its costs and realities.

I won't mistake you with th

Now that I know you're military, I won't mistake you with these people who don't understand war or its costs and realities.

So, according to you, the only people who understand "war" and its "costs" and its "realities" are those who've been in the military?

That's a novel viewpoint. Do you extend that to everything in life?

Proud member of the all-powerful and vast
militarist/industrialist/capitalist/zionist-bagelist complex

blogonator

I hope I did not mislead you. I served one year in the Nat'l Guard and 4 years in the navy. I admired, strongly, those among us who chose it as a career path. I did not, but I am one of those who feels deeply indebted to the United States of America. I owe all I am and all I have to this country. You may not like the analogy, but if I approached a pilot and asked him how he liked flying, I certainly would not expect a lecture on how some engines were more costly than others. And that you don't want to get on a plane that has an expensive engine.That is point one. Point two-if you join the military, I expect you to be a warrior, prepared to fight for your country, and die if necessary. It is the risk you assume when you join. If you should attend a Senior Officer's class on finance and I discuss with you the American principle of protecting people, I certainly do not want you to tell me that it would cost too much! Take off the uniform and put on the green eyeshade. Be a soldier or be an accountant!

It's that simple.

Blonde PS

PS remember my era   we had the likes of Patton, Eisenhower, MacArthur, Bradley and on and on.

misterbill

and George Marshall, Chester Nimitz, Archer van der Grift, "Vinegar" Joe Stilwell, etc., etc.

I think the current crop of loud mouthed retired generals just can't stand the fact that without the media, there is no one left to fawn all over them.

And of course, the MSM won't fawn if they support our aims, goals, strategy, and tactics.  So they criticize.

I wish Stormin' Norman would get on TV and tell them all to shut up.  He's about the only one who I think would be able to get away with it, and make it stick!

blonde

For a young lady, you keep impressing me with your savvy!!! You are one of the good guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (There ain't too many left.)

Thanks, mrbill.I love history

Thanks, mrbill.

I love history....and WWII is more fascinating than any fiction I've ever read.

WW2

I could identify the silhouettes of all American planes. (Part of helping the Neighborhood Air Warden.) Thank God I never saw one that wasn't ours. The war was deadly but the memories are sweet! The star flags in the windows, the Bob Hope radio shows, The love and freindship everybody extended to everybody else. Aah, dream on old man!

Westmorland was a good one. B

Westmorland was a good one. But I think he was the last. Not to take away from Schwarzkopf.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Westmoreland

westmoreland  darn tootin he was a good one and they (MSM) tried to blame all of McNamara's screw ups on him. And as Generals of yore, he took it on the chin for his country!

You got that right...Westy wa

You got that right...Westy was a go getter, and McNamara was a _ussy. So was Johnson.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Schwarzkopf met

I had the good fortune to meet Gen Schwarzkopf in, of all places, a barber shop in Tampa. I had my 9 year old son with me. I had the pleasure of introducing my son (and me) to the General. (A no BS kind of guy!)

Response

Well there's an intelligent and reasonable response.

I am troubled that people can't see that we can't make Iraq what Bush and Cheney and all those who supported this misadventure, both Democrats and Republicans, promising we would be welcomed as liberators . Just more and more carnage and death, and money and on and on and on . . .

Out of curiousity, Do you bel

Out of curiousity, Do you believe in having a military?

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. 

On With the Shew

It is a great honor for NBC to introduce this next act to America.  And now straight from their sold out studio project "careful deliberations" and backed by "a lot of people" please give it up for "civil war",  the artful dodger formerly known as "illegal war".......

So NBC pulls a Cronkite.  La

So NBC pulls a Cronkite.  Lauer probably insisted on doing this declaration himself.  Lauer you are a tool.

And can someone tell my why there was not also a respected person with an opposing view? (must not be any, right?)

 Nevermind, I know, this is not a debate, its a "News" show.

sheesh.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

So, a car bomb in a crowded m

So, a car bomb in a crowded market place is a civil war?

For years I've been screaming at the TV for the MSM to call it what it is.

Do you think If I go out there and start encouraging people to bomb abortion clinics that the MSM will call it a "civil war"? no, they'll call it "terrorism" they'll denounce it, they'll talk about how evil it is. But set a car bomb that will kill anyone who happens to be near it, and it's a civil war. I love it! All the terrorists have to do is set one car bomb a day and just wait for the MSM to produce a Vietnam complex. They don't have to fight our soldiers anymore, just keep doing little daily fireworks, and the press will get Americans to be so fed up and demand we pull out. Our own MSM has produced couch potato terrorism!

By this reasoning, Britain ha

By this reasoning, Britain has been in civil war since 1968.  Likewise Spain.

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy."  -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965)

With that logic the United St

With that logic the United States is still in a civil war.

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.