Pity the journalist who dares accuse Michael Moore of “fudging” facts.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta offered a “SiCKO” reality check for CNN viewers, and CNN brought Michael Moore on “The Situation Room” to rebut the segment.
“That report was so biased, I can’t imagine what pharmaceutical company ads coming up right after our break here,” Moore lashed out against Wolf Blitzer on July 9.
Apparently in Moore’s vocabulary, biased means it doesn’t agree with Moore’s views.
Video (1:33): Real (2.54 MB) or Windows (2.87 MB), plus MP3 audio (702 kB).
Moore’s rant continued for more than 10 minutes – and at some points he was practically shouting at Blitzer:
“For me to have to sit here and listen again to more crap about socialized medicine or how the Canadians have it—you know—worse than us. All the statistics show that we have it far worse health care than these other industrialized countries. We’re the only ones that don’t have it free and universal.”
Gupta’s report pointed out several flaws in Moore’s movie, but wasn’t exactly harsh because he arrived at the same conclusion.
“But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts there’s one everyone agrees on. The system here should be far better,” Gupta said.
In the live interview, Moore attacked Gupta’s journalistic credibility (Wolf defended Gupta), accused CNN of not telling the truth and demanded an apology from the network. On his website, Moore wrote “This is libel. There is not a single fact that is ‘fudged’ in the film.”
“I mean, I wish CNN and the other mainstream media would just for once tell the truth about what is going on in this country – whether it is with health care, I don’t care what it is. I mean, you guys have such a poor track record,” Moore told CNN viewers.
Moore’s hostile comments regarding corporate control of the mainstream media and CNN were particularly ironic, considering CNN’s cheerleading for the “SiCKO” movie. Review after review, many in the mainstream media praised the film.
“I just wonder when the American people are going to turn off their TV sets and stop listening to this stuff,” quipped Moore.
Good thing for Moore they didn’t or his movie might not have held on to the ninth place position in the box office standings, bringing in $11.5 million in the last two week.
—Julia A. Seymour is an assistant editor for the Business & Media Institute.
Comments Policy
So a guy takes a camera, exp
July 10, 2007 - 14:21 ET by BruzillaSo a guy takes a camera, exploits the hardships of a lot of people, makes some trips that were paid for by a communist government, and makes over $11,000,000, so far, from it. That $11,000,000 sure would buy a lot of medical insurance for those people he exploited. It seems he's more worried about his wallet than helping people, so who's the real sicko?
You sound like your jealous
July 10, 2007 - 19:48 ET by Com_n_senseAh, the hypocrisy of the Right ... I guess it's okay to lie us into a war so you and your buddies can make BILLIONS of the death and destruction you cause, but when someone makes a film that exposes how we're getting screwed by our own government that's not acceptable?
And whatever happened to good old American capitalism? Someone makes a movie that millions enjoy and the man that makes that movie is what? Suppose to give the money away? I suppose Gates should give-up his billions, Trump too, gee, by your reasoning, that would be COMMUNISM!!! oh, my ...
Com n dope:Geez! How can you
July 10, 2007 - 19:54 ET by Mica the MagnificentCom n dope:
Geez! How can you still be angry 24 hours later?
Do you wake up pissed off?
Everything is fine, take it easy.
The conservatives will make sure your right to be an idiot is protected.
Repeat after me: God bless George Bush, Condi, Cheney and Carl Rove.
There, don't you feel better?
"Grrrr ahhhh grrrrr argggg argrrrr? Rarrr agrrr grrrr argrrr!!" - - The Tasmanian devil talking to Com n dope
Oh yeah, that group you worsh
July 10, 2007 - 20:06 ET by Com_n_senseOh yeah, that group you worship sure has been doing a fine job. NOT! With standards like yours I feel so much better about mine.
And hey. moron, if you're going to list the scum-bags you worship at least you could spell their names right - it's Karl, not Carl Rove. But hey, thanks for showing everyone just how stupid you are.
I'm not sure where it was ind
July 10, 2007 - 20:36 ET by AJI'm not sure where it was indicated that it was "Wrong" (in the way you describe) for Moore to make his money. This post is simply recognizing the irony of the fact that Moore made $11 million which will go to making more poorly researched films... oh and probably another stupid, whimsical baseball cap. Basically, all of us Americans are "suffering" under the current healthcare system because it's too expensive, yet Moore is raking in millions... strange dichotomy, in my humble opinion.
Translation:"I can't ref
July 10, 2007 - 22:34 ET by Del DolemonteTranslation:
"I can't refute this person's arguments with facts, so I guess I'll have to call them "moron", call the people he's talking about "scum-bags", call him on a simple spelling error that I would never call Al Gore on, and then call him "stupid" to finish off."
You've been a busy little man tonight, Sparky. Nap time.
Hey Mica, Q: What do you c
July 10, 2007 - 20:14 ET by JerryHey Mica,
Q: What do you call the stench eminating from a hard core liberal?
A: Commie-Scents.
Q: What do you call the weekly pay check earned in a communist country?
A: Commie-Cents
Q: What do you call an inane liberal poster that is surprised to find conservative viewpoints on a conservative site (hint: it is something that liberals are severely lacking)?
A: Com-n-sense.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
no_sense: Moore's movie is ba
July 10, 2007 - 20:49 ET by QueenMumno_sense: Moore's movie is basically a criticism of America's health care system vis a vis insurance & pharmaceutical companies. I don't see how this has anything to do with getting screwed by our government.
As far as giving money away - that's exactly what Moore wants everyone to do. Give our money away to the government so that everyone can have "free" health care. Gates and Trump already "give up" millions in taxes. And Gates, for one, also gives a good deal of his wealth away voluntarily to charitable causes. And yet for you and your comrades, it's not enough until the government has more of our money than we do.
We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria
Ah the Hypocrisy of another l
July 10, 2007 - 21:24 ET by Airforce_5_OAh the Hypocrisy of another left troll....I guess you don't understand the point of the thread. But how is it that we are not suprised to see another talking points idoit to call upon us. Usually I don't go after trolls like this but I am fed up with little minded hatemongers like you coming here just to harras adults actually having a debate.
so do me a favor. Canceal you subsciption to the dailykos and huffpo, stay off off moveon, and start LOOKING at what is going on in the world. You might understand why people are doing these things for your freedom.
Now go get some cookies from mommy, cut off the computer, and read a good book. I hear "Godless" is great.
Build The Fence
Un-common stupidity,Stop lyin
July 11, 2007 - 00:04 ET by Dave RUn-common stupidity,
Stop lying to us here at NB. The sad truth is, you are either too lazy or too stupid to take responsibility for your own healthcare.
When you get your wish for socialized healthcare and the government starts rationing it for your older relatives and they end up dying prematurely because of it, don't come in here bitching to us, you ignorant, uneducated moron.
Help Fred defeat the RINOs, along with the Hitllary-Obama Axis, & win the White House in '08.
Dave RIt is obvious that the
July 11, 2007 - 00:14 ET by SemperrightDave R
It is obvious that the libs can not put up logical arguments for their stunted logic. So for the sake of interesting argument "tag your the liberal"
Bring your best devils advocate argument for socialized medicine.
I know it will be tough but maybe we can tag Blonde tomorrow to be the lib.
I think it may be the only way to have a good exchange of ideas if the lib is a conservative. Still the chips are stacked against you.
Step up and give us your best.
Somebody has to, the libs haven't the brain power.
"Your best is an idiot," Bender
'Kay, Semerright, I'll play a
July 11, 2007 - 01:00 ET by Dave R'Kay, Semperright, I'll play along. :-)
(Think Jethro Bodine voice here)-
See, when I was a young'n way back thar in the sixth grade in that thar gov'mint school (from which I gradeated twiced) and Granny 'n Uncle Jed made me go to, mah teachers learned me that mah doctor-goin weren't really up t' me, as it was somebody elses 'sponorbility to pay fer it an' all.
So, yee-haa! I went ever chance ahh could git. 'Sides, nurse Ratchet was one o' them thar hotties from Los Angeles, 'n I just knowed I was gonna grow up t' be one o' them big-time Hollywood producer-type people.
Heck, it weren't a bad deal fer a bona-fide graduit of the sixth grade. Twiced, that is.
Now, ya'll be sure 'n cough up them taxes, ya hea?
Help Fred defeat the RINOs, along with the Hitllary-Obama Axis, & win the White House in '08.
Hey, I'm his buddy! Where t
July 11, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Ruths husband BenHey, I'm his buddy! Where the hell is my check? Gosh, we went to war to steal the oil.....war has this way of freeing up supply lines. But wait, didn't the libs tell us there was only enough oil to last 10 years, 20 years tops (Jimmah Carterafat). Seems kind of short sighted to go to war over such a limited resource.
What is this site turning into? Dufus fly over territory? Is there some link at Dumbass.com to come here and piss and moan?
real dilemma
July 10, 2007 - 14:33 ET by LionKingThis sure poses an interesting dilemma. Who is the victim here..Wolf or Mikey?
Wait...they are both liberals, therefore, they are both victims...and it is all Bush's fault.
Our healthcare system does
July 10, 2007 - 14:35 ET by WiggyOur healthcare system does need to be fixed. However, Michael Moore castigating pharmaceuticals, etc is akin to the pot calling the kettle black. The man (and I use that term loosely) owns stock in pharmaceuticals.
"[Moore] owns stock in
July 10, 2007 - 15:00 ET by sanskritg"[Moore] owns stock in pharmaceuticals."
No link to this proof/evidence?
Michael Moore Owned Halliburt
July 10, 2007 - 15:15 ET by drillanwrMichael Moore Owned Halliburton, Defense Stocks
Over the past five years, Moore's holdings have "included such evil pharmaceutical and medical companies as Pfizer, Merck, Genzyme, Elan PLC, Eli Lilly, Becton Dickinson and Boston Scientific," writes Schweizer, whose earlier works include "The Bushes" and "Reagan's War."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/3/150518.shtml
Personal holdings
July 10, 2007 - 15:52 ET byGuess what, for anyone who goes into mutuals, SOMEONE ELSE chooses what companies to invest in, the actual investor's control is minimal. I assume I've got money in things I morally disagree with and so to all of you more than likely. In fact, the very moment you open a bank acount you have no idea what that bank is doing with your money, that's a big part of capitalism. The Newsmax article may be technically accurate, but not relevent in context.
Also, any attacks on the issue that Moore is covering in Sicko is moral support of a broken system that more and more is making money for rich people by denying health care for YOU! It's your money, out or YOUR pocket. It's YOUR health that is at stake! If you're in favor of wasting money on comprising your health why don't you go ahead and send me your wallet while chewing lead paint chips for breakfast.
The Newsmax article may be te
July 10, 2007 - 16:05 ET by drillanwrThe Newsmax article may be technically accurate, but not relevent in context.
Well, I suppose that is much better than "Fake but accurate" ...
As to the Mutual Funds issue ... I agree. However, perhaps someone who constantly slams everything in this country should check his own BVDs before running around shouting about someone else's messy pants ... if he want's to be taken seriously.
Exactly!! Happy Tr
July 10, 2007 - 16:21 ET by Army BratExactly!! Happy Trails...
Methods vs facts
July 10, 2007 - 17:02 ET byMaybe Moore's methods can be considered questionable. But with such an apathetic America, maybe that's the only way to get the point across and get people to pay attention. As far as facts, NOTHING in F-911 surprised me. It had already been reported on various venues, mostly the European and Australian press (BBC, ABC Guardian, Independent etc.). It wasn't a sack of non-facts as many have called it, but a recapitulation of stories already told to those who cared to pay attention.
"As far as facts, NOTHIN
July 10, 2007 - 18:06 ET by stratman"As far as facts, NOTHING in F-911 surprised me."
Then I guess you won't be surprised by actual facts:
http://davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Yeeeaaahhh ... Okay, still wa
July 10, 2007 - 19:01 ET by drillanwrYeeeaaahhh ... Okay, still waiting for that earth-shattering evidence that it was anything BUT crazed Islamo-fascist pigs that planned and carried out 9-11.
Meanwhile, you really need another hero besides Moore. (What? Do you have two T-shirts? One with Moore's unshaven mug on it, and the other with Che?)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47060 http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/01/fahrenheit.suit/index.html http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/cl-ca-dissent24jun24,0,71190.story? coll=cl-movies http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/23/news/moore.php
SPQR - Do you really believ
July 10, 2007 - 22:58 ET by mulerider24SPQR - Do you really believe Moore is investing in retail mutual funds like the rest of us commoners? Am I supposed to believe he's stopping in at a local strip mall to talk about some 5-star rated mid-cap value fund with his Edward Jones broker? He's undoubtedly got a who's-who team of institutional money managers overseeing his fortune that cater to his specifications. All it would take is him simply stating his wishes of no pharmas or oil companies and those managers bypass those industries completely.
Which leads me to an idea for my first documentary. Why do the top 1% of wage earners (Michael Moore) get better financial guidance and access to more exclusive investment products than average middle class investors? As a socialist, I believe I am entitled to the same private equity managers as Bill Gates and deserve a lot more attention than a lousy birthday card from my broker once a year.
Obviously in my documentary I will concoct some ridiculous statistic about Moore's investments returning 5% more a year on average than my mutual funds. I will then compare my annual average versus his returns over 55 more years of life expectancy (we'll use my mortality table, not butterball's abreviated one), proving to the world how Moore is stealing millions of dollars from my retirement potential. That could pay for a lot of blue pills when I get older.
Well....
July 11, 2007 - 14:23 ET by AshWether there is proof or not that he owns stock in pharmasuticals, he probably does own mutual funds that own stock in pharmasuticals.
Let's not forget his real motiviation here. Have you seen that guy latley? He's going to need a lot more than the millions he's made on his movies to pay for the obscene cost of health care from being such a fat piece of crap! When that guy gets old he'll need like 30 heart transplants because the valves will keep filling up with bacon grease and spray can cheese.
So Michael Moore only deals
July 10, 2007 - 14:47 ET by Dave in TexasSo Michael Moore only deals in facts?
"We’re the only ones that don’t have it free and universal."
Wow! I didn't realize that health care was "free" everywhere else in the world except the United States. That means outside of the United States, nobody involved in any aspect of health care is compensated in any way for the time and resources they devote to caring for patients. I never knew that.
As the commercial says: PRICE
July 10, 2007 - 15:19 ET by drillanwrAs the commercial says: PRICELESS!
http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/C9/
I happened to catch this exch
July 10, 2007 - 14:47 ET by GalvanicI happened to catch this exchange this afternoon while passing by a TV set with CNN on.
After the dialogue, Gupta came on and said that he and CNN stood by their story except for one detail: he had reported that Moore claimed universal medical care in Cuba cost about $25 per person. Gupta corrected the figure to $250. Otherwise, CNN stands by its debunking of Moore.
No wonder Moore stacks on the
July 10, 2007 - 15:06 ET by drillanwrNo wonder Moore stacks on the poundage ... Takes a heck of a lot of work and energy to make himself seem so valuable and important. Narcissism sure does make one hell of a carbon footprint.
Fair and Balanced---Not
July 10, 2007 - 15:10 ET by takingmyconstitutionalGosh, it must have been tough for Ms. Seymour to decide who to favor in her highly biased account----authentic liberal Michael Moore or alleged liberal Wolf Blitzer. Obviously, she decided to assume that Blitzer, aided by Sanjay Gupta, were on the side of the angels in the instance, but that Moore, being Moore, was beyond defense.
Seymour claims that Gupta offered a "reality check" for viewers, and that he "pointed out several flaws" in Moore's movie. Moore, in her depiction, was simply engaging in a "rant." Nowhere does Seymour entertain the possibility that Moore was venting some righteous wrath over misrepresentations of his data. And nowhere does Seymour provide a link to the corrections subsequently provided by Moore and his "Sicko Truth Squad." Since she obviously has no interest in presenting a fair account, here is a link to those corrections:
http://www.michaelmo...
"Reality Check"
July 10, 2007 - 15:43 ET by Julia A. SeymourI would like to point out that "Reality Check" was a term used onscreen by CNN as Gupta's report aired. Those were not my words. My blog entry was about an article written by my colleague Jeff Poor - which did mention Moore's website and it's debunking of the Gupta story. I can't recall if it included a direct link or not, but thank you for providing it to NB readers.
Oh yeah, a link to an insane
July 10, 2007 - 15:55 ET by Jack BauerOh yeah gosh, thicko, a link to an insane socialist who admits he lies for "dramatic" effect.
I note that nowhere in your inane post do you entertain the possibility that Michael Moore is a lying narcisisst whose #1 (and only) priority is Michael Moore.
You really do need better schtick than mock arguments based on what YOU think others should think or "entertain."
" . ... authentic libera
July 10, 2007 - 18:31 ET by Galvanic" . ... authentic liberal Michael Moore or alleged liberal Wolf Blitzer"
Alleged?! LMAO.
sicko...
July 10, 2007 - 15:11 ET by danybhoyI love this story, the propagandist with all of his lies & half-truths pissing & moaning at someone who actually needs to go through standards & practices with his on air pieces. Moore is the same guy who claimed he own no stocks, but told the IRS something different. In "Do as I say, not as I do", Peter Schwietzer also points out that no matter how much he says Halliburton is evil & unAmerican, he owns(or owned)more then a few shares. Nice...
Michael Moore is the very picture of poor health, morbid obesity is 1 of the biggest risk factors for health. You may wish to have a look in a mirror (not a funhouse mirror either) & decide what sort of health care system you want treating you when(not if) your health goes to hell. You'll end up at the Cleveland Clinic if it's a heart issue, or maybe at Mayo for something else, because there is no way your going to Cuba for your soon to be needed life saving health care. Good for CNN's "The Situation Room" host Wolf Blitzer & the good Dr for putting up with these blowhard from Flint.
"A goverment big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away" Barry Goldwater
Moore is a very sick man. Pe
July 10, 2007 - 15:14 ET by bigtimerMoore is a very sick man.
Period.
Throw in despicable and disgusting too...
He needs mental and medical help...
Move your over-loaded shite for brains and fat arse to Cuber Moore...and stay there...you will get all the help you need....FREE.
Libel? You wanna talk libel
July 10, 2007 - 15:45 ET by mattmLibel? You wanna talk libel, Mr. Moore-on? You are the definition of it.
Moore than a useful idiot
July 10, 2007 - 15:53 ET by j17ghsIn addition to his eating disorder, Moore is a deranged anti-social socialist college dropout. He's the classic example of the hate-everybody loner who couldn't get laid in high school and would trash cars while classmates were having fun inside attending sporting events and dances. He's a supreme asshole and will be among the first that neo-Stalinists send to their New Age gulags (along with other moronic head cases like Cindy Sheehasshole).
Moore is the climax of US hop
July 10, 2007 - 22:47 ET by M J BMoore is the climax of US hopefuls; he is a successful business man!
How can you not like him?
"If" he lies & cheats he is not alone on the way to success list that is so admired.
He blew Blitzer away; fair & square. Blitzer; saved by the ad's.
Moore is the climax of US hop
July 10, 2007 - 22:47 ET by M J BMoore is the climax of US hopefuls; he is a successful business man!
How can you not like him?
"If" he lies & cheats he is not alone on the way to success list that is so admired.
He blew Blitzer away; fair & square. Blitzer; saved by the ad's.
We heard you the first time
July 10, 2007 - 22:50 ET by Free StinkerWe heard you the first time, Michael.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Fred Thompson and Ann Coulter walk into a bar. The bar is instantly destroyed because that much awesome cannot be contained in one building.
"All the statistics sh
July 10, 2007 - 15:45 ET by Jerry"All the statistics show that we have it far worse health care than these other industrialized countries.."
I would really like to know WHAT are these statistics that show we have worse health care. Quality of care? Availability of care? Better trained physicians? Better medical equipment? I SERIOUSLY doubt that Sicko's Cuban paradise beats the United States in ANY of those categories. I think the major factor they consider is average cost, and if per capita cost is not adjusted to reflect per capita income, it don't mean diddly squat.
A "study" is like a "poll". A poll that doesn't reveal the exact questions that were asked is WORTHLESS. A study that doesn't reveal the parameters used to reach it's conclusion is WORTHLESS.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
"All the statistics sh
July 10, 2007 - 15:57 ET by i was just thinking"All the statistics show..." Fifty-seven percent of all statistics are made up, according to 84% of researchers, 63% of whom have done recent studies in this area. However, only 32% were absolutely convinced of the accuracy of the original percentage of 57.
:-) Sounds like a concensu
July 10, 2007 - 16:03 ET by Jerry:-) Sounds like a concensus to me.
I imagine at least 2 billion people participated in the study.
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Almost 50% of all statisticia
July 11, 2007 - 11:22 ET by Ruths husband BenAlmost 50% of all statisticians are below average.
Ironically, the movie SiCKO m
July 11, 2007 - 11:18 ET by GalvanicIronically, the movie SiCKO mentions that the US is ranked #37 on the WHO list of countries with quality health care, and shows the list. Ranked at #39 on that list is Cuba.
"There is not a single
July 10, 2007 - 15:54 ET by i was just thinking"There is not a single fact that is ‘fudged’ in the film." Of course not, Michael. If the statement is a fact, then by definition it can't be a lie or "fudged". (I find Big Boy Moore's use of the word "fudge" to be interesting.)
Good point iwjt, his facts
July 10, 2007 - 16:08 ET by JerryGood point iwjt, his facts are not fudged (either one of them). Unfortunately it's all the lies and made up stuff that is "fudged".
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Yup....health care in Cu
July 10, 2007 - 16:17 ET by Army BratYup....health care in Cuba is so vastly superior that when Fidel got sick, he sent to Spain for doctors and equipment to treat him. (Don't Canadians come to the U.S. for health care by the busload?) He can damn sure afford it...multi millionaire that he is. (Multi millionaire communist? How does that work? Moore never met a Commie he didn't like!) Moore...one of Americas top anti-Americans. I wonder...hell..I'm willing to bet that that bettin' joint in the U.K. that paid out on Gore Jr's arrest has a bet on when Moore will die and prolly another on which disease/ailment. I'd say massive heart attack due to chronic over-eating. Or...maybe it's his ego that makes him look so large? Happy Trails...
Liberal blathering at it's best...
July 10, 2007 - 16:18 ET by goldenthroatThese two dunderheads deserve each other! Here is Wolf Blitzkrieg interviewing Fat Boy - two left-coast, bleeding-heart, 'do as I say, not as I do' liberals - and the pot is calling the kettle black!
What a farce of an interview! They're both a couple of self-absorbed, pompous, arrogant, ego-maniacs - but heaven forbid either one would deal with the facts!
Yeah, that's the ticket! - Tommy Flanagan
LOL on the fudge gag below. A
July 10, 2007 - 16:20 ET by Jack BauerLOL on the fudge gag below. And isn't MM's stage name...
Free health care
July 10, 2007 - 16:35 ET by Spike72AFAI am a physician. I would like to know how MM and his ilk expect to provide "free" health care. In the words of the late great Robert Heinlein, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Simply said, nothing is free. Those who believe that removing market forces from health care does nothing but provide "affordable health care" do not exist in a rational universe. The short term effect will be unbelievably long waits for the care that is available. The mid-term effect will be skyrocketing prices followed by inevitable price controls. The long term and ultimate effect will be the total and irreversable destruction of our health care system.
Spike...
July 10, 2007 - 16:42 ET by LionKingTell me. Are the insurance companies hammering the doctors?
If I was a physician, I would certainly be fighting for tort reform to lower malpractice insurance. I think if these insurance costs went down, doctors probably could survive on the ascribed fee schedules.
What do you think, doc?
LionKing,In a related comment
July 10, 2007 - 17:23 ET by msh1973LionKing,
In a related comment, Rush talked about the fact that there are now malpractice limits in Texas, so much that the governing board of medicine is back logged on issuing medical licenses.
I believe in the long run that would make malpractice insurance more affordable for doctors. I know here in Florida my doctor actually retired early because she didn't want to pay those high premiums. That was a real shame, because she was the best!
Here is a link to what Rush w
July 10, 2007 - 17:35 ET by RESTLESS 1Here is a link to what Rush was talking about today that you referenced.
Great link...thanks
July 10, 2007 - 17:44 ET by LionKingThanks for the link. If the rest of the states would follow this remedy, then consumer health insurance could also go down. The high cost of medicine could be turned back somewhat.
Also, if the nanny-state FDA would allow drugs to be introduced sooner with the patient's sign-off, pharmaceutical costs could be reduced also. Let people decide if they want to use experimental or developmental drugs. Some people may actually get help while providing the additional test results the drug companies need.
L.K. You're welcome. See the
July 10, 2007 - 17:52 ET by RESTLESS 1L.K. You're welcome. See the link I posted below as I believe you will find it interesting as I did. The market place is where the costs of health care can be fixed, not the government.
Medical malpractice liability
July 10, 2007 - 18:47 ET by stratmanMedical malpractice liability insurance for neurosurgeons and high-risk obstetricians in Southern Florida costs $250,000 per year, if they can get it at all. This amount may be 1/3 or more of their entire gross reimbursements.
Who here would tolerate paying 30 cents of every dollar collected to an insurance company?
Here's another way of looking at the disparate liability premiums in the country:
"...some Ohio obstetrician-gynecologists pay nearly $189,000 annually for coverage, while some in Minnesota pay less than $20,000 a year." (http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2005/11/07/prl11107.htm) This was from a Nov. 2005 article so prices have been adjusted since then... upwards! A more current article states that some rates have decreased or stabilized but the premiums are still commanding "premium" dollar payments by physicians. (http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2006/12/11/prl11211.htm)
Why is there such a huge variance in liability premiums. The answer is multivariate but part of the issue is patient expectations of outcomes, the State's 'friendliness' to tort reform, socioeconomic's of the population in question, and possibly the concentration of attorneys and physicians in the area of study.
I don't think that liabilty the prime determinant of a physician's income, rather it is insurance reimbursment. The lion's share of a patient's health care premium is sucked up by the insurance company. All that paper work and vague denials of claims or requests for procedures or medications cost the insurance company lot of money to pay the minions a couple of bucks and the elite ponzi-like scheming bastards.
Just streamlining the paperwork and hoops patients and doctors have to jump through to get the job done could decrease premiums by 20% while maintaining (or increasing) corporate and physician pay. Everybody wins.
While this is a simplification of complex issues, the core issues in need of change are primarily the health care and liability insurance spectrum.
Having heard the Rush piece
July 10, 2007 - 20:25 ET by RESTLESS 1Having heard the Rush piece referenced above, combined with my belief that the market can control prices better than the gov. and it's regulations, just made the Cato piece linked below all the more obvious. Any void in the market place will be filled by entrepreneurial types. After all, they are coming out with SUV hybrids. put the power into the hands of the consumer, and prices will come down. I agree, this has to be coupled with limitations on malpractice lawsuits and and lower malpractice insurance. I believe that if award for such suits are capped, the insurance will come down.
Spike: " . . . I would
July 10, 2007 - 18:39 ET by GalvanicSpike: " . . . I would like to know how MM and his ilk expect to provide "free" health care."
Well, he didn't mean it was totally free. You have to pay for a boat ride to Cuba.
Spike: " In the words of the late great Robert Heinlein, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Simply said, nothing is free."
In the words of satirist P.J. O'Rourke: "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait 'til it's free."
Spike: "Those who believe that removing market forces from health care does nothing but provide "affordable health care" do not exist in a rational universe. "
I agree, Doc. Let the market forces play. How do you feel about removing the AMA's annual cap on medical school graduates? As a layman, it seems to me that more doctors in the market would bring costs down.
I am not sold on there being
July 10, 2007 - 19:08 ET by stratmanI am not sold on there being a shortage of American born and trained physicians in America. The problem is that less than desirable pay combined with lifestyle/amenity expectations by physicians create a "shortage" in areas such as rural and inner city.
Foreign medical graduates gain entry, training and jobs due to residency programs wishing to keep funding at a certain level and to have physicians willing to go to "less than desirable" areas of the country to provide health care. Many of these physicians complete minimum work requirements and then jump ship to the bigger towns to be closer to like cultural people and bigger town amenities. Their migration then leaves a need (once again) in the rural area and also contributes to further physician congestion in the bigger cities.
I would venture that switching to a socialized health care model will further erode the number of American born and trained physicians. Why bust your hump for so many years to earn so much less for comparable hours but far less risk in a business/corporate environment? The result of this folly will be two-fold:
Welcome to the New World Order. Communism is only a hop, skip and a jump away. Maybe this is hyperbole. Maybe not.
A Chief of Radiology once sai
July 10, 2007 - 18:50 ET by stratmanA Chief of Radiology once said:
"Medicine can be cheap, fast and good.
But you can only pick two of the three at one time."
How do you want your medical care?
Maybe you should ask why afte
July 10, 2007 - 20:29 ET by Com_n_senseMaybe you should ask why after we pay over 50% of our money back to the government that we get Jack-squat for it?
But then again maybe you're one of the unethical doctors who make a fortune by prescribing unnecessary prescriptions and procedures. If you're a Repuke, my guess is you are.
LOL! "Repuke", he s
July 10, 2007 - 22:37 ET by Del DolemonteLOL! "Repuke", he says. I'm surprised you didn't say "neocon" while you were at it...
Get a new vocabulary, friend. That term is about as 9/10 as it gets.
And as for unethical doctors, what is your opinion about the doctor in Kansas doing late term abortions purely to line his pockets?
(sounf of crickets)
Com-n-sense is the new term f
July 10, 2007 - 22:46 ET by Clear thinkerCom-n-sense is the new term for American communists.
What a turd.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Jack- squat buys F22's
July 10, 2007 - 22:55 ET by M J BJack- squat buys F22's
“Maybe you should ask why a
July 11, 2007 - 08:13 ET by Karma“Maybe you should ask why after we pay over 50% of our money back to the government that we get Jack-squat for it? “
There, I corrected that for you. That was a mistake, right?
Dang. Can't get the "str
July 11, 2007 - 08:18 ET by KarmaDang. Can't get the "strike-through" font to work. Please consider the word "back" in the above statement to be "struck-through".
Here is a nice article from t
July 10, 2007 - 17:50 ET by RESTLESS 1Here is a nice article from the Cato institute that explains how Michael Moore has it completely backwards. The cure to the problem is not government intervention, as we know that the government never does anything effeciently. The problem can be solved by less reliance on a third party payer system. The consumer has to be in control of their medical expenses in order for the health industry to become more market driven. If universal health care were adopted, the result would be more outrageous costs to consumers in the form of taxation, less efficient delivery of medical procedures, drugs, etc... than we see now. In addition, malpractice limits such as we see in Texas would lower the costs of malpractice insurance to providers. Of course, we will never see liberals in favor of letting the market drive the cost of health care, as that would give people too much personal responsibility over their own lives.
It is a very interesting poin
July 10, 2007 - 19:37 ET by stratmanIt is a very interesting point that when people pay a set fee for a service and that service can be utilized as many times as desired for that set fee, then the consumer will utilize the service more than if they were responsible for paying for each point of service.
The health care insurance companies answer to this was to set "co-pays" whereby the consumer/patient pays a set fee at the point of service. The reasons for this POS co-pay are numerous:
Rumored as fact, though it seems rational, insurance companies estimate that 25% of denied claims will not be resubmitted for full or partial payment. That's fast cash in corporate insurance cos. greedy little mitts. Before you think it's physician laziness, denied claims may not tell you what's wrong or missing. It could be something as simple as misaligned type. At some point one looses more money than would be collected in reimbursemnet so the physician will just fuggettaboudit. The thieving insurance cos. know this and use it to their advantage, just like denying certain patient treatments hoping the patient will die before the legal system adjudicates. One last thing, these "write-offs" can not be written off on taxes. Like when people don't pay their physician's medical bills, the physician just eats the denied reimbursement loss.
Rant over.
We already have enormous taxa
July 10, 2007 - 20:33 ET by Com_n_senseWe already have enormous taxation and we don't get anything for it!
Obviously you haven't seen Moore's film. Hence you speak from ignorance. A familiar place for you from what I can observe.
like dude how is anyone who l
July 10, 2007 - 20:42 ET by botglike dude how is anyone who like started with this:
I guess it's okay to lie us into a war
gonna call someone else ignorant?
obviously i have a copy of F911 and based on that crap won't watch another MM film
"The more I study science, the more I believe in God." Einstein
If you truely believe turni
July 10, 2007 - 20:45 ET by RESTLESS 1If you truely believe turning over 1/7 of the nation's economy ti the government to insure over 300 million people won't cause taxes to go to heretofor unseen heights, then it is you whor are not only ignorant, for ignorance can be forgiven, but willfully stupid, and that can't be forgiven. Canada's population is only 33,390,141 as of july /07 estimates. They have problems with waiting lists for health care. What do you think will happen in this country of 300,000,000 plus. And don't bring China and India into this. I don't believe anybody thinks their health care is as good as ours.
Canada only has about 30 mill
July 10, 2007 - 22:59 ET by M J BCanada only has about 30 million people. All Canadians have access to healthcare regardless of income. Access is the issue not quality.The USA has a very high standard of health care but far too many have NOTHING. A caring nation;no!
MJB...Anyone can get healthca
July 10, 2007 - 23:02 ET by Clear thinkerMJB...
Anyone can get healthcare in this country, if you don't beleive me just ask the 12-20 million illegals in this country.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
M J BIf you care so much, g
July 10, 2007 - 23:06 ET by Free StinkerM J B
If you care so much, go ahead and dig into your wallet and start paying for peoples healthcare.
Ever donate blood, or platelets?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Fred Thompson and Ann Coulter walk into a bar. The bar is instantly destroyed because that much awesome cannot be contained in one building.
Access is the isue, not qua
July 10, 2007 - 23:18 ET by RESTLESS 1Access is the isue, not quality? What good is access to a doctor if the care you get is not good? If you would pay attention, the point is that a government takeover of health care is the worst possible scenario. The third party payer system has flaws. Put the power in the hands of the consumer and the market will respond. Limit the outrageous awards given in malpractice suits and health care providers will have less costs for malpractice insurance and will be able to lower their prices for care. The government can't do everything for you. Take some damn responsibility for yourself.
C_n_s,Do you get a tax retu<