Liberal Ruling Reversed; Year Ago, Media Celebrated 'Major Defeat' for Bush

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A federal appeals court today overturned a Carter-appointed judge's opinion last August that the National Security Agency's terrorist surveillance program, dubbed by opponents as "domestic spying," was unconstitutional. Eleven months ago, the media latched on to the decision as a "major legal defeat" for the Bush administration, with CNN's Jack Cafferty crowing about how the decision proved "President Bush violated his oath of office, among other things, when he swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States."

Both ABC and MSNBC hosted constitutional lawyer Jonathan Turley, who suggested the President should be impeached as a result of the ruling.

Friday's decision stated that those who sued the government, including the ACLU, could not show that they had been targeted by the surveillance and thus had no standing to bring a federal case. As the Associated Press reported this afternoon:

A federal appeals court on Friday ordered the dismissal of a lawsuit challenging President Bush's domestic spying program, saying the plaintiffs had no standing to sue.

The 2-1 ruling by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel vacated a 2006 order by a lower court in Detroit, which had found the post-Sept. 11 warrantless surveillance aimed at uncovering terrorist activity to be unconstitutional, violating rights to privacy and free speech and the separation of powers….

White House spokesman Tony Fratto said, "We have always believed that the District Court's decision declaring the terrorist surveillance program unconstitutional was wrongly decided."

The ACLU is reviewing its options, including taking its challenge to the Supreme Court, Shapiro said.

It remains to be seen how the networks cover today’s reversal of the lower court ruling, but here's how the big media reacted back on August 17, 2006, as chronicled in a variety of NewsBuster blog postings:

# On ABC's World News with Charles Gibson, Gibson introduced the story of the "major legal defeat" for the Bush administration, and correspondent Martha Raddatz filed a full report on the ruling in which she described the ruling as a "significant blow" to the administration, showing a soundbite of plaintiff James Bamford arguing that the ruling means the President "isn't a king." While she did at least provide some balance by relaying that "many national security experts" argue the program is essential, followed by a supporting soundbite from James Garafano of the Heritage Foundation, Raddatz did not delve into any legal weaknesses of the ruling itself.

# The CBS Evening News and the NBC Nightly News only ran anchor-read stories, during which CBS's Bob Schieffer, uniquely among the networks, pointed out that those subjected to surveillance were "suspected of having ties to terrorists." And while ABC's Gibson did at least mention that the surveillance involved "overseas phone calls from this country," NBC's Campbell Brown did not even mention the international nature of the calls, while the words "Domestic Surveillance" were displayed on the screen next to her. Brown relayed that Judge Taylor "harshly condemned" the program.

Click here to read more.

# During the 4pm EDT hour of the August 17, 2006 Situation Room on CNN, Jack Cafferty endorsed a U.S. district court judge's ruling, that the National Security Agency's terrorist surveillance program is unconstitutional, as a proper indictment of Bush policies: "There are laws on the books against what the administration is doing and it's about time somebody said it out loud." Cafferty attacked the "arrogant" Bush administration for its supposed "abuse of power" and accused the President of lying to the American people and violating his oath of office: "So what does this mean? It means President Bush violated his oath of office, among other things, when he swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States. It means he's been lying to us about the program since it started, when he's been telling us there's nothing illegal about what he's doing."

For more, click here.

# On the August 17, 2006 Countdown, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann bolstered the ruling by federal Judge Ann Diggs Taylor against the Bush administration's controversial NSA spying program that involves warrantless monitoring of international phone calls when one participant is a terrorist suspect. Referring to the ruling as a "judicial smackdown" and a "stunning ruling" against the program, Olbermann repeatedly referred to the NSA program as monitoring "our" phone calls or "our" emails. The MSNBC host further contended that since the program was revealed, "anybody who had actually read the Constitution" believed it would eventually be ruled as "patently illegal." Olbermann's guest discussing the topic was liberal law professor Jonathan Turley, who labeled Judge Taylor's ruling as a "very thoughtful opinion," called efforts by conservatives to discredit her as a liberal Carter appointee as "distasteful" and maintained President Bush "could well have committed a federal crime not once, but 30 times."

Click here to read more.

# On ABC's Good Morning America on August 18, 2006, ABC's Jessica Yellin never acknowledged the liberal background of the Carter-appointed Judge Ann Diggs Taylor who, Yellin pointed out, "accuses the President of acting like a king" and says the NSA program "blatantly disregards" the parameters established in the Bill of Rights. Yellin labeled the court's decision a "stinging setback" for President Bush, and highlighted this warning to the President from George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley: "He could be impeached. And people should not be underestimating that.

For more, click here.

 

—Rich Noyes is Research Director at the Media Research Center.


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I hereby create this sub-th

I hereby create this sub-thread as a repository for apologies and retractions from any of the "journalists" listed above.

I'll keep the lights on and a plate of warm cookies on the porch. ;-)

Better make it Twinkies, bec

Better make it Twinkies, because no cookie would be fresh enough to eat by the time a journalist apologizes!

Roger,LOL. Should he also use

Roger,

LOL. Should he also use those super-long-lasting mercury-filled fluorescent anti-global warming bulbs in the porch light fixture? :) 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

HEY - take it back - Twinkies

HEY - take it back - Twinkies are food too, and I can prove it!

There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V

dabal: I'm sure there will be

dabal: I'm sure there will be lots of cookies left. Okay if I come sit on your porch while we're waiting and avail myself of your hospitality before the cookies get stale. I'll bring my own milk. :)

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

And don't forget the Kool-Aid

And don't forget the Kool-Aid...

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

Is this MORE good news .... o

Is this MORE good news .... on Top of the Commutation of Scooter, the Immigration slap down, and now the non-domestic Spying issue bites the dust  ? ?

My, My, me thinks the Liberals are biting the dust along with MSM Ratings, the  downward trend in Newspaper circulation, and lets not forget the Approval ratings of Congress as it marches towards single digits. 

The END IS NEAR !!!

The new media can take the Clinton Pardons and run with them......and MSM should not even be mentioning the word "Pardon" as Bush sits at ZERO "pardons".....Clinton sits at 140...and Miss Hillary better keep her mouth shut.

What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ?   David Foote  GoE

JayTee

Actually, that pardon number for Clinton is MUCH LARGER

h/t   to Gary Hall

I love seeing the ACLU lose .

I love seeing the ACLU lose ... It's shaping up to be a great weekend.

It remains to be seen how t

It remains to be seen how the networks cover today’s reversal of the lower court ruling,

My prediction: they can't ignore it; but they will concentrate on supplying quotes from everyone  who is against the it.  No one who gloated last year will be asked to eat crow.  Jonathan Turley will not be asked if he was too hasty in calling for Bush's impeachment.

Turley was absolutely right i

Turley was absolutely right in calling for Bush's impeachment. If Bush dribbles on the toilet seat, it's grounds for impeachment. I think he should be impeached for this latest liberal talking point reversal. They're running out of things to bitch about, AND IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT!!!

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

MSM response will be: "A

MSM response will be:

"A divided 6th circuit court of appeals reluctantly ruled today that . . ."

I understand one of the reasons for the decision was that the ACLU couldn't prove that anyone of the 'plaintiffs' were harmed by the wiretaps.

anti-secuirty judge b*tch slapped

I refer to Judge Taylor as Judge ADT, the anti-security Judge. Her failed ruling is just another slap to liberalism.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

It is an icky feeling (sorry

It is an icky feeling (sorry there's no better way to describe it) knowing that someone has listened to your phone calls. I know from personal experience (long story, won't go into it here.) Nonetheless, it is not a nice feeling to think that some stranger heard your happy, gitty, goofy, tearful, angry, and sometimes gooshy phone calls.

It is an invasion of privacy. However, on the other side of things, I realize that it could catch some terrorists before they kill people. So for me, the jury is still  out on this one.

Debra...

monitored calls from terrorist/ suspected terrorsts

Debra, I didn't know that you received calls from suspected terrorist groups or individuals and told them "happy, gitty, goofy, tearful, angry, and sometimes gooshy" things.

If you were just taking to friends and family that don't fit into those categories...no one is listening.

I'd think it be even ickier t

I'd think it be even ickier to be blown to radioactive bits by a terrorist suitcase bomb, but maybe that's just me...

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris,That's why I said the j

Chris,

That's why I said the jury is still out on this topic for me. We have to remember that there are other things that could be done to insure our safety too, like stationing soldiers in our homes, but that is unconstitutional.

How far are we really willing to go? How much of our privacy are we really willing to give up?

djms...

Debra,There's a huge gap betw

Debra,

It's a far cry between listening in on selected phone calls going out of the country to people suspected of terrorist activities and stationing soldiers in our homes. Citing an extreme as being unconstitutional isn't an effective tool to demonstrate that a lesser activity may also be the same. We could play that game with a lot of things, otherwise. If wiretapping is out the door, what else possibly could be done to prevent terorist plots from coming to fruition?

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris,If they are stationed i

Chris,

If they are stationed in my private phone calls, that is not far from being stationed in my home.

djms..

Debra,The government is after

Debra,

The government is after your apple brown betty recipe.  They can see you through your monitor.  Tin foil up

No Soup For You

Semper....Just read your post

Semper....

Just read your post and am crackin' up laughing here...

....thanks....

tin foil up...thats good.

Btw...anybody with a brain knows if someone in the govt. wants to go after you...they can and will....always have...always will...one way or the other.

No. It is a far cry. I don't

No. It is a far cry. I don't know what your experience was exactly, but something's wrong here. You haven't answered my question regarding how to fight terrorism without wiretapping.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris...I'm guessing debra wo

Chris...

I'm guessing debra would rather we use mind reading techniques!

The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.

Good question, Chris. But how

Good question, Chris. But how needed is it? And I just don't know that I am willing to give up my privacy. Are you willing to?     ...djms

As far as I know, I haven't g

As far as I know, I haven't given up my privacy. I don't tend to make long distance phone calls to middle eastern countries - especially to known Al Qaeda types. But, yes. In time of war, some sacrifices are needed to be made. Like in World War II. But, hey, if you don't think we're at war, that terrorism is not that big of a deal, I guess you're privacy is more important to you.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Unless you're willing to oc

Unless you're willing to occasionally assert your privacy, you've given it up for all practical purposes. And my problem with a "war on terror" is that things like terror, poverty, and drugs tend to be tough to defeat, and then war -- as Randolph Bourne said so well -- is the health of the state. Whether or not we're at war is important, but it's not the only factor in all this. We still have a Bill of Rights, after all. Should I have to give up my PGPkey and its passphrase to George Bush's "Justice" Department that's attacking honest money while at the same time studiously-ignoring this scandal? I don't think so, especially without a warrant...
JMR

Sarc,That's the problem I hav

Sarc,

That's the problem I have with Libertarianism: it's all sounds well and good as noble declarations, but when applied to reality, is impractical in it's pure form. Can you envision any circumstance, so threatening, that you would approve of wiretaps that aren't approved by a judge in the traditional way? I'm sorry, I just don't see the threat to our civil liberties in the tools we have granted, so far, to law enforcement in the battle against Muslim terrorists.  In crying "wolf" at what we have done so far, one tends to lose some credibility. We trade little liberties everyday, to live in a somewhat safe environment. Total civil liberty is anarchy - something I would oppose as much as oppressive government. As far as the war against terrorism never being won, you're right. But this isn't a conventional war, as you well know. There will always be acts of terror. No war will end every individual threat. But I don't think that's what this war is about. If there are threats of terrorist acts, there has to be some kind of system, in place, to prevent them. This war is against the organized Muslim terrorists that we are facing now. If this war can limit and at least somewhat break that organization, we have to at least try.  

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Well, that's the problem

Well, that's the problem I have with "conservatives" who constantly accept larger and ever-larger big-government, Chris. And if you're arguing with me, you're NOT arguing with a guy who wants "total civil liberty" at all, I never said that. What I want is smaller government, and more of a reason to trust 'em. Right now, as I said, a clueless and hysterical Bush "Justice" department is going-after honest money (and even NB's lesser intellectual lights haven't defended big government's waste here, their case is so-lame!).

I think conservatives are history-impaired on this one. Franklin said: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Was he wrong? Was Ben talking about pure anarchy? Or was he talking about small government, honest money, and the kinds of non-political -- IOW truly-conservative -- principles this nation was founded on -- principles which in this very thread have caused one stupid nonpatriot to call a patriot like me 'unpatriotic.' Screw that bull-crapola. Since 9/11 in various ways Osama has "won" and civil liberties have lost, but he's still free. Not a good deal, IMO, because I think Bush screwed the pooch in Tora Bora and let him get away by stupidly trusting our Pakistani "friends."

And you say yourself, "there will always be acts of terror" conveniently putting the emphasis on "always" because that's my point, too. No war on terror can ever end, because it's the same as poverty; and Jesus Christ Himself said: "the poor you will always have with you." Terrorist a--holes will be with us, too. Right now, this war, despite the continual hype for it we've both seen here on NB for months and months, looks a lot like a coming disaster. It looks like it's breeding more organized terrorists via blowback (gee, there's that term again! It's almost like the rest of the world should read the 9/11 report like Ron Paul did, apparenlty alone!). Lessened civil liberties here in the USA will not help us to fight overseas terror, but better strategy would. And due to the "evil" genius of the Founders and the 5th Amendment, I can't even tell you just HOW stupid the US government has been WRT this war and motivating Iranian dissidents in my experience. (Yes, it's possible to try to help US troops even if you don't happen to support a war they're currently stuck-in. I'm living proof.) I think this war is about bigger & bigger government and more political power, and I don't trust the stated reasons for what big government's fans want. I won't until we at least have a more-honest name for it than "war on terror."
JMR

I'm not sure Ben Franklin w

I'm not sure Ben Franklin would categorize privacy during international calls to suspected terrorists an essential liberty. I imagine if I were coordinating with British "dissidents" in the late 18th century, he probably would have exempted me from that statement.

Regardless, I think everyone gets the fact that we each draw the line in the sand of civil liberty differently. I went through grad school thinking that the budget for Border Patrol could be categorized as "overhead." A TRUE conservative would want the borders open and fluid to promote economic growth. That was obviously before I realized there was such a thing as terrorism and events like 9/11 could happen on our soil. So I was willing to fractionally compromise my fiscally conservative ideals for national security. The effect is unquantifiable, but I imagine capitalism will survive.

Sarcasmo, we are very familiar with your principles in here and they definitely add value to discusssions, but sometimes walking the libertarian line shows logical flaws. In my opinion, this is one of them.

I understand what you are say

I understand what you are saying, Chris. This is just one of those things that I am still tossing around in my head as to if it is right or wrong to listen in on phone conversations of innocent people for government protection. I am leaning on the side of 'it is wrong.'

There is a reason Bush does not email anyone. He knows. And I assume he is very careful what he says over the phone as well.

And I highly doubt that terrorists are going to plot things over the phone, knowing that they are being listened to. I guess I see this as a locked door. A locked door only keeps the honest people out.

djms...

How many times do poeple ha

How many times do poeple have to say this to you? Are you making calls to Middle Eastern countries on a daily basis? Are you making calls to suspected terrorists in this country or any other country? If the answer is no to both questions... THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO YOU!

AJSHOPE,Clearly I do not beli

AJSHOPE,

Clearly I do not believe that that is all our government is doing. Calm down.

djms...

"There is a reason Bush

"There is a reason Bush does not email anyone. He knows. And I assume he is very careful what he says over the phone as well."

LOL Do ya think?

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Oh my gosh, QueenMum, we agre

Oh my gosh, QueenMum, we agree on something! Wow! I think I will sign off for a while and enjoy this moment in time a little longer...         ...djms

I see my sarcasm went over yo

I see my sarcasm went over your head, Debra.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Queen and AJ

Darn it Queen...you beat me too it....still laughing!

Btw...AJS while I am here...it is DEBRA...if she says it is about her....IT IS...as ALWAYS...first and FOREMOST dontcha' know.......

Something as simple as protecting our country and aiding our military during a time of war with intercepting overseas phone calls that may be a matter of life or death and especially a matter of time...and Deb thinks it is all about HER!

Sickening enough this was even taken to court, let alone the politico's that are our enemies within as it is.

Ron,The situation that happen

Ron,

The situation that happened when phones were tapped that I talked on, was over two decades ago and had nothing to do with terrorists and everything to do with a mob hit.

But besides that, if you think that everyone's phone calls are not being tapped today, think again. There is a central computer system that records all calls today. If something were to happen, then all the government would have to do is type in key words to bring up conversations that they want to listen to. And yes, your personal and private calls, could end up heard.

djms...

It sounds to me that your pho

It sounds to me that your phone was tapped for a reason.

But a government central computer system that records all phone calls?

I dunno.

Sounds like that computer is in the same room as the Weather Machine and operated by government gerbals with microchips in their brains.

Mica,Some people believe that

Mica,

Some people believe that a www computer system may be used in the end times to control people. There has been some talk about www being 666, and a computer somewhere called, "The Beast." I don't know how true it is.

djms...

Waiter? Check please . . .

Waiter? Check please . . .

Mica, Black choppers, with S

Mica,

 Black choppers, with Satan driving, at twelve o'clock.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris:Darn!Satan again?

Chris:

Darn!

Satan again?

"Some people believe tha

"Some people believe that a www computer system may be used in the end times to control people. There has been some talk about www being 666, and a computer somewhere called, "The Beast."

You really need to be more careful about what you say, Debra. You're scaring the children.

Anyway, I think The Beast is a roller coaster at King's Island in Cincinnati.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

That is a HUGE and wicked-fas

That is a HUGE and wicked-fast computer system! There are always literally millions of people on the phone in this country...the task of recording and tracking all of those calls is close to if not entirely insurmountable. If this computer really does exist, why then do they subpeona phone records when they already have them? Why are they not able to accurately trace some calls? How long ago did they start recording every phone call? How long do they keep the records? What method do they use to store the records? How many back-up copies do they have? Where do they store the records?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

MG,I'm buying stock in Renold

MG,

I'm buying stock in Renolds Wrap as we speak, when this gets out I'll be uber rich

No Soup For You

Mean Gene Dr. Love,Do you rea

Mean Gene Dr. Love,

Do you really believe that we do not have the ability to do this?

djms...

I definitely agree with the D

I definitely agree with the Doc that we do not have the ability to do this, nor the reason. The storage capacity alone would be the size of a Manhatten skyscraper, let alone the system capable of tracking and recording billions of calls per day. This sounds like a Rosie conspiracy (I hope she isn't reading NB - never mind. I didn't realize how dumb THAT statement was, accusing her of reading and then adding NB to it).

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

Being a student of computer s

Being a student of computer systems I know we technically do have the "ability" to do this, but it is a task that is next to impossible at pulling off by a mainframe supercomputer system. To really be able to do this every telephone substation and relay would need to have a computer capable of recording thousands of simulaneous calls. Additional storage space would have to be added almost constantly and each terminal would have to run flawlessly and some would even have to survive all the weather extremes, humidity, dust, and other contamination.

Then there would have to be hundreds of thousands of technicians that would be sworn to silence about all of the work they do on these systems.

Searching all the records for "key words or phrases" is another huge hurdle. Ever search your hard drive for a single file? How long did it take to find it? Did your computer search in different languages, accents, and dialects?

Ever heard of SETI@home?

"With over 5.2 million participants worldwide, the project is the distributed computing project with the most participants to date. Since its launch on May 17, 1999, the project has logged over two million years of aggregate computing time. On September 26, 2001, SETI@home had performed a total of 1021 floating point operations. It is acknowledged by the Guinness World Records as the largest computation in history (Newport 2005). With over 1.36 million computers in the system, as of March 12, 2007, SETI@home has the ability to compute over 265 TeraFLOPS [1]. For comparison, Blue Gene(currently the world's fastest supercomputer) computes just over 360 TFLOPS." --from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home#Statistics.

And that is just analyzing chunks of radio waves taken from one radio telescope...it is not recording/compressing/storing/searching/analyzing millions of simulaneous phone calls.

If you really believe everything you say on the phone is being recorded do you still talk on the phone? If so why?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

STOP IT GENE!!You and your fa

STOP IT GENE!!

You and your facts.  What are you going to do when the gubmint teraflops your ass in jail.  They see you, they hear you and they're working on a type of sensor implanted in stray dogs that come up and lick you .  They can taste you Gene.  What are you gonna do about that, SETI your ass home and think nothings wrong?  Theys gonna get us, you'll see.  You'll ALL SEE.

(Crazy OFF)

No Soup For You

Gene...what would a student know

Gene...silly student. Do not be so naive.

As a computer professional, I can assure you that Debra's fears are well-founded. It is no wonder that all communication is being converted to digital. In the industry, it is well known that the government has daisy-chained multiple supercomputers to achieve exponential computing capability. Through multi-threaded processing, these computers log and compress all communications. Unfortunately, due to national security concerns, normal law enforcement does not have access to this system. There are future plans to give limited access to the various law enforcement entities.

It should be of additional interest that aside from all of this communication processing, it also manages the US Weather project; liberals refer to this as the Rove Weather Machine. Those familiar with Chaos Theory and the Butterfly Effect will find this particularly interesting. With a very complex mathematical model of out global weather, we can affect the weather around the world by introducing specific stimuli from various locations. our weather balloons do more that just study the weather, these are actually weather stimulus devices. How many times has a reported UFO turned out to be just a weather balloon...the confusion is the usual illumination that comes from the stimulus on the balloon.

I hope this clarifies this alleged conspiracy once and for all.

[All of you libtards curl up in your fetal position and pray that none of this is true.]

LK you forgot about the stray

LK

you forgot about the stray dog sensors, they can taste you.

I hope Debra doesn't work in a kennel.

No Soup For You

That's it...now I will only s

That's it...now I will only speak in code while on the phone (maybe I should even do it on the computer especially in forums like this?) if the people on the other end can't understand me I'll eventually get fewer and fewer phone calls until I get none.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

Gene The pearl is in the rive

Gene

The pearl is in the river

repete

The pearl is in the river

No Soup For You

The cat is out of the bag.How

The cat is out of the bag.

How now brown cow?

Wash the dog. Don't look at me. The roof is on fire.

"The frame of unrestraint must be glowing from bout to era with the cruor of jingoists and Vaders." --NOT PUBLIUS

Gene,The scary thing is is th

Gene,

The scary thing is is that random words strung together make as much sense as the tin foil force. 

If you play a computer backwards the CIA tells you to register your cat for reeducation.

No Soup For You

random words

The scary thing is that random words strung together make as much sense as a liberal talking point.

HOLY CRAP GENE,we used the wo

HOLY CRAP GENE,

we used the word cat in two consecutive posts.  The code is compromised.  Abort Abort

No Soup For You

Aw, feces!"The tree of l

Aw, feces! Wiping hard drive now! Unplugging from network!

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

Me too,and it's time for dinn

Me too,

and it's time for dinner.  Sushi and Sapporo.

Life is good

hasta

No Soup For You

...

METAL...FETAL...FECAL

Somebody send a blackhawk out

Somebody send a blackhawk out for that guy

No Soup For You

gene...funny you that you mention that

There is actually a computer communication encoding project called jabberwocky.

[Actually it is an IDE for LISP, but it sounded good.]

Gee LK,I thought the "Bu

Gee LK,

I thought the "Butterfly Effect" was some esoteric sex act mentioned on L.A. Law.  Now you're telling me it's a mathematical model for code decryption.  What's up with that?

I know Bush heard my call to

I know Bush heard my call to my mama yesterday. I saw him on t.v. and he looked into the camera. I saw him wink at me. That was the sign.

Hello? This is George Bush. I heard you call your mama yesterday. Just checking to see if she's a terrorist. No?  O-k, then have a nice day. - - - Liberal hell

Howdy Mica...When the Prez wi

Howdy Mica...

When the Prez winked at you did you get all happy gitty gooshy inside?

...this inquiring mind wants to know....

LOL...

bigtimer: I got happy and git

bigtimer: I got happy and gitty, but I haven't gotten gooshy in weeks.

There's no way they'd have th

There's no way they'd have the resources or the time to record all calls. Period.

They record the phone numbers - that's constitutional. Supreme court decided that one in the 1979:

 Although subjective expectations cannot be scientifically gauged, it is too much to believe that telephone subscribers, under these circumstances, harbor any general expectation that the numbers they dial will remain secret. (Smith v. Maryland, 1979).

They've been tapping overseas calls since WWII. The "warrantless wiretaps" are only on international calls - legal. The Supreme court decided that in 1982.

I did a research paper on it:

In Salisbury v. United States, the District of Columbia United States Court of Appeals ruled that the Government might indeed intercept all foreign calls to and from the United States. Harrison Salisbury, a foreign correspondent for the New York Times, filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for transcripts of his intercepted foreign communications. The National Security Agency (NSA) refused, citing national security interests. He then sued the government, claiming his First and Fourth Amendment rights had been violated.

“Prior to the enactment of FISA, virtually every court to consider the question had held that the President has inherent authority to conduct electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence information and that there is an exception to the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement for such surveillance.” (United States v. Pelton, 1987, emphasis mine).

Of course, thanks to NBers here, I was able to use these sources to go to the law library, something no MSM reporter has bothered to do.

  Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.

Debrathe expectation of &quot

Debra

the expectation of "privacy" in any communication except between two people face to face in a closed room in our current society is ill advised.

might be called dumb.

might even be called stupid.

definately is naive.

C

PK (C),Yes, you are correct.

PK (C),

Yes, you are correct. Yet, most of us forget and just talk away on phone calls about anything and everything --and we should be able to.

djms...

DebraWhy would you believe th

DELETED

DebraWhy would you believe th

Debra

Why would you believe that your calls were listened to?  The decision said that "there was no showing" that the ACLU's clients had been spied on!  What am I missing?  Why would you buy into the brainwashing that big brother is sitting there listening to your private telephone calls?

My situation, buddyc, was ov

My situation, buddyc, was over two decades ago and had nothing to do with terrorists. The reason I mention it is that I know how it feels to find out that someone has been listening into your calls.         ....djms

With a simple modification to

With a simple modification to a scanner, you can listen in on wireless telephones, and probably cell phones too.

  Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.

Debra,

this particular program only tracks calls into or out of the US using the known numbers from terrorists captured and interrogated. The NSA and CIA have always had the ability to listen to foreign phone calls and have almost since their inception. The issue here is that one end of the call is in the US.

Unless you wer goofy or gushy or giddy on over-seas calls, you have nothing to worry about in this case.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

Plus the calls would have to

Plus the calls would have to get past the DERKA DERKA detectors, By RoveCO patent pending

The what???

The what???

It is a device that identifie

It is a device that identifies and records Terrorese, It works great except the liberals keep setting it off.

No Soup For You

Semperrright:Ouch!

Semperrright:

Ouch!

c5then,I hope that I am wrong

c5then,

I hope that I am wrong on this and that you are right. But, if I am correct, would it bother you to have your calls listened to?

djms...

Debra,   Let me explain how

Debra,

   Let me explain how the so-called "domestic" wiretapping really worked. The NSA has a bank of supercomputers (by far the most powerful on the planet) sitting in their basement. These computers listen in on select OVERSEAS calls (selected by location of known or suspected terrorist activities - i.e. Afghanistan, Syria, etc.). The computers listen for key words, phrases, or names, like explosives, blow-up, Bin Laden, etc. Only when such is "heard" by the computer is anything recorded. It is then flagged for further attention. If it is nothing, it is not kept. And most importantly, there never was anything "domestic" about it. It involved overseas calls only.

So, unless you are calling Afghanistan to discuss where to place your explosives to blow up an American building that Bin Laden would like to see destroyed, you really don't have to worry too much about someone listening in on your calls.

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

Beowulf,I hope that you are r

Beowulf,

I hope that you are right and that I am wrong. But, does it really make sense for our government to believe that such phone calls by terrorists only involve overseas calls?

And if I am right, how would you feel to find out that your calls were listened in on?

djms...

Tin foil hat,That's all I'm s

Tin foil hat,

That's all I'm sayin'

No Soup For You

No, terrorist calls don't onl

No, terrorist calls don't only involve overseas calls. Only about 98% of them. Those that are truly domestic require the same warrants that any other state-side call does.

As for how would I feel if my calls were being listened to? I couldn't care less. If the NSA wants to hear about my Honey-Do list or those special phone-sex with my wife calls, have at it. I'm not doing or discussing anything illegal, and anyone who thinks my calls (or most of yours) would hold the slightest interest to the big bad government should make an appointment with a good pshrink (in person, of course. Don't want to get on that government mentally-ill list, do ya?).

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

Well Beowulf, I guess you're

Well Beowulf, I guess you're just not as important as our Debra. Bless her heart.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

With intelligence services

With intelligence services cooperating as well as they do (as in, sitting in the same room, often) it's a bit misleading IMO to capitalize "OVERSEAS." The law tries to make that distinction here and elsewhere, and I'm sure the intelligence agents try to follow it when they can if they're being good, but the electrons don't behave that way. It's not easy to differentiate foreign calls from domestic calls, but with agents of a variety of nationalities available, the dirty little secret is that the agents don't really have-to. It's also probably very-tempting for intelligence agents to use assets on -- for example -- targets like Princess Diana; which seem more tabloid than terror related, or to discover financial secrets.
I know none of this firsthand, it's all gleaned from feeding various intelligence agents copious booze and getting them talking once they trust me, but I believe it's true. No phone call is safe from Big Brother. No email is safe unless encrypted with PGP or its equivalent, and I doubt as many as 1 in 1000 people uses any cryptography software deliberately. You can see it in subtle ways, too, like phone booths being gone, but basically privacy is a right nobody wants to bother to work to defend. Everyone's all bark and 0 bite, it seems. It's quite frustrating.
JMR

Great post, sarcasmo...   

Great post, sarcasmo...       ...djms

The weird thing is, I can s

The weird thing is, I can say "people are all bark and no bite when it comes to protecting their own privacy, which they'll literally willingly sell for the price of a Big Mac while claiming they are nuts for privacy!" Then you can say something nice (thanks -- see? My drinking habit benefits you!). Then I can offer..No, ok, I AM OFFERING, to help anyone here -- even the various people I dislike for some reason -- to get started in the wonderful world of email cryptography. And I'll do it for free, no notice or thanks needed. And in spite of the fact that email is like a postcard (but LESS secure from prying eyes!) experience says I'll get either no or almost-no takers. But anyone who reads this should feel free to go download PGP, generate a key pair, and PM me if you'd like to exercise a right we're now-losing. It's a right Thomas Jefferson used for both official and personal correspondence when he was a US ambassador. The US government calls strong cryptography "a munition." People like me call it "speech protection," and say that big government can have my private key's passphrase when they pry it from my cold, dead neurons. :)
JMR

"You can see it in subtl

"You can see it in subtle ways, too, like phone booths being gone,"

sarcasmo: Phone booths are gone because just about everyone has a cell phone.

Sorry. But it's hard to take someone seriously when they say that they get their information from drunken "intelligence agents".

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

I've backed my info up with

I've backed my info up with reading (online and off) which tends to confirm it, like this. Of course, drunks could be editing Wikipedia, too, but since my drunken conversations both predate and exactly conform with the Wikipedia entry, I think I can trust my drunken friends. Basically, when intel-agents from 5 nations are sitting together in a room, any conversation in the world is, to at least a few of 'em, a conversation that's not domestic, and that's the ugly-truth kept as much as possible from the courts and the people. The disappearance of the phone booth preceeded the widespread adoption of cell phones, so your theory's wrong there, too. And by "booth" I don't mean those pieces of crap at 7/11 that barely-even-shelter a phone. I mean a real phone booth you can close after you walk into it and before you pick up the phone. Think about it...When did you last see one?
JMR

And phone booths were made fr

And phone booths were made from what?

Aluminum, like the foil.  See the government couldn't read your thoughts when your in one.  Thats why they got rid of them.

Think about that

No Soup For You

Funny, the ones I recall we

Funny, the ones I recall were largely glass...But if that's the best you can do, Ok!
JMR

The frames and the tops were

The frames and the tops were Aluminum.  Everyone knows that the government uses satelites to read your thoughts.  Those are way up in the sky.  The AL roof blocks the signal.  Deb you know, tell sarc I'm right.

No Soup For You

I'm beginning to worry about

I'm beginning to worry about you, sarcasmo. Prior to the widespread usage of cell phones, many of those phone booths were replaced because of vandalism. It got to be too expensive to maintain them in light of people using them for various purposes besides making phone calls.

re: Wikipedia - You really need to be more selective regarding your sources - both cyber and drunk.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

They lasted for decades, an

They lasted for decades, and I think vandalism is only partly the issue (their demise DEFINITELY far-preceeded the widespread use of cellphones, so I guess you're admitting that, right??) and functioned as a phone-company excuse for getting rid of booths in favor of crappier alternatives. As for WikiPedia, I've always been a happy and proud defender around here. The product of a libertarian-leaning homeschooler who was influenced deeply by Hayek is just naturally kicking ass in the idea-marketplace, despite its very-few problems. IF it ever doesn't continue kicking ass, one of its competitors will fill the slot, as one's already trying to do.
JMR

Well I must admit sarcasmo, i

Well I must admit sarcasmo, it looks like you have Superman on your side.

BTW, please provide documentation to prove that the demise of the traditional phone booth in America "far preceeded" the widespread use of cellphones. I would argue with that contention based strictly on personal experience. But I live in the "sticks". So maybe the guvment hasn't been payin' us much mind.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

I have no documentation but

I have no documentation but my own vivid memory, but I can assure you, phone booths were disappearing from the scene FAR before the cellphone was even a brick-sized device for the rich. And I'm willing to say, part of the phone company monopoly's excuse was cost, there's no doubt, but there's also no doubt that part of what they used to be selling us with booths was privacy. No more. I'm with Superman on this one.
JMR

Perhaps someone should notify

Perhaps someone should notify this company about the decline of the phone booth. Note that they seem to be made out of some sort of shiny metal -  like aluminum or steel.

I also though this site was interesting. But I see I'm wandering off topic. Sorry.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

I see a wide variety of cra

I see a wide variety of crappy kiosks and almost-no actual booths for sale on their page, so it's possible they might already be aware of that decline, even without being notified....And it's not just the traditional booths I favor, but for sheer variety IMO nobody beats 2600's "Payphones of the Planet."
JMR

I actually worked for Ma Bell

I actually worked for Ma Bell and the reason we got rid of pay phones is that they did not pay.  Customers who had booths on their premises only paid if the take from the phone was below a certain amount.  After cell phones started to take over, the money made from pay phones dropped like a rock.  When the customers found out they would have to pay monthly to have that pay phone in front of their store, away they went. 

As of 2003, the red phone boo

As of 2003, the red phone booths were still all over England.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

Makes sense. The last real

Makes sense. The last real phone booth I saw was on the island of Anguilla, which is kinda a Brit colony that forgot to ever pass an income tax. Anguilla gets by anyway these days on rich tourists.
JMR

I was out on the most beautif

I was out on the most beautiful island in Hawaii (Kauai) in 2003, my first visit back to Hawaii since I lived there in the 1960s, and was happy to see that they still have phone booths, many of which have graphics of plumerias on their sides. That's the flower they make leis out of.

LOL Sarc. good one!!!!

That's a good one!

It's not easy to differentiate foreign calls from domestic calls,...

The telephone companies are still struggling with this, I know...lol

It's also probably very-tempting for intelligence agents to use assets
on -- for example -- targets like Princess Diana; which seem more
tabloid than terror related, or to discover financial secrets.

Very nice way to disparage the US intelligence service. You are so patriotic.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

How am I disparaging them b

How am I disparaging them by telling the truth? Were they somehow NOT monitoring Diana and the papers got it wrong? People who question my patriotism are so universally-stupid sounding...And note also YOU'RE the one who put "US" into this, I've put this bunch, which is far from just-US...So if anything, YOU'RE the unpatriotic one here. How's knowing that feel??? Heh heh heh.
JMR

sarci, sarci, sarci

The British have completely different laws. To try and combine the two is to deliberately obfuscate the issue. Why bring up Diana when it is over ten years old? How does that have any bearing on the current discussion?

You implied that US intelligence agents would rather listen to Diana (or Paris, since Diana died well before the war on terror got to the front burner). That shows disdain for US intelligence agents as a group (how liberal) and also a complete lack of understanding on how the program works.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

Bull crap, you want somethi

Bull crap, you want something in your imagination to be implied, but I never said it. YOU not me specified "US;" I talked about sharing. YOU are the unpatriotic one, and you don't like seeing that, but it's still true. As for Diana, they were listening just like I said, the incident is a decade old but our knowing about it is a much younger timeframe, so I decided it's relevant. Tough if you disagree, my decisions are final because I'm the decider on this issue, o unpatriotic one. As for laws, look at their laws regarding intelligence, and you'll see that they like we differentiate between foreign and domestic. Fits right in with the sharing I was talkin' about. And distrust does not equal disdain, so you're wrong on that one, too. Batting 1000 for stupid today, I guess.
JMR

Try and stay on topic.

I know the temptation is to go off on the tangents that you try and create, but lets stay focused here.

The Issue is a US law that allows US intelligence agencies to record calls that originate from or are made to overseas numbers.

What the Brittish intelligence agencies do or don't do is irrelevant.

Sharing with other countries intelligence services has always happened to a greater or lesser extent.

Saying that you distrust all the intelligence agents to adhere strictly to the rules is fine. But that is not what you said. Let me quote you:

"It's also probably very-tempting for intelligence agents to use assets
on -- for example -- targets like Princess Diana; which seem more
tabloid than terror related, or to discover financial secrets."

That shows disdain because you attribute immoral and or illegal motivation to them. Grammar and context give you away.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

Once again, I wasn't the on

Once again, I wasn't the one who specified the USA, you did, o unpatriotic one. Accuse me of what you're guilty of isn't workin' now, is it? Notice YOU put it in a patriotism context, I was ONLY talking about intelligence sharing generally. I stand by all my words.
JMR

Sarc:just how much stuff that

Sarc:

just how much stuff that you talk about on the phone is stuff that you really want to keep secret?

most of my phone conversations are either "No i don't want your particular good or service and now that you have interrupted my supper did you know that i am on the do not call list?" Or "yes louie the boat club meets this sunday."

now just how interesting are several trillion of those two conversations.

the computer hears it all but only looks for the "critical" words. all else is trashed to make more room for more "yes louie the boat club meets this sunday."

by the way: there two reasons that phone booths are disappearing.

1. the telephone companies got tired of spending a couple of hundred dollars to repair the insturment when some festered rectum pries the cashbox out of it with a crowbar which happens quite regularly.

2. cell phones are putting them out of business economically.

C

 

I talked to my uncle who work

I talked to my uncle who worked for the local phone company for about 30 years.  While he did not work specifically with payphones or payphone booths, he did say that cost vs profit was the number one reason that the phone company stopped payphone service in our area.  Vandalism in the city cost a lot to repair.  Usage of payphones was down even before cellphones were ubiquitous as they are today, although increasing cellphone ownership certainly was a/the big nail in the coffin.  Also, deregulation allowed for private ownership of payphones, further decreasing interest by the big phone company to maintain and operate payphones.   Add to this a citywide crackdown on payphone availability due to illicit drug dealers and payphones in the city and greater city area shrunk further.

If enough of a profit could still be generated from payphones, particularly the booth kind, the telephone companies would still be doing it.  If the gubmint objected than the ACLU would cry first amendment right and the courts would settle the issue.

Bottomline, good old capitalism, not nefarious anti-anonymity governmental directives, was the direct and proximal cause for the decline of payphones and their booths.

Shucks, stratman. There you g

Shucks, stratman. There you go ruining a perfectly convoluted conspiracy theory. :)

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Except, please note, I neve

Except, please note, I never said that there was a conspiracy in the first place. What I said was that various forces seem alligned against the old fashioned privacy of phone booths, and (for those who read what I write) I actually specifically mentioned telephone company costs of phone booth maintenance among the forces. But nice try at painting me as a "conspiracy theorist," maybe it'll work next time! The loss of the phone booth and its privacy is like the loss of decency and courtesy in society (such as the stupid calling the patriotic "unpatriotic") and can't be blamed on just one thing.
JMR

Evening sarc.....Just wanted

Evening sarc.....

Just wanted to say hi .....

We (my brothers and me) really played with empty tin cans with a long string pretending to have phones when we were very little kids...talk about imagination...lol.

Look what they have now for the little tykes....

I am SO jealous of little k

I am SO jealous of little kids these days. It started when I saw one gliding along on some sort of roller-skate on his heel of his shoe, and it looked like she was having SO much fun... Heelies, I think they're called, and I instantly wanted a pair despite being an adult. I was transfixed. Of course, they do not make a version for size 11 adults who wish we were kids, so I'm out of luck. I have to watch the kids play on them. I'd probably break something if I had them at this point, anyway, but it brings back memories of skateboards (and injuries). Anyway, I'd give ANYthing to be a kid these days, the world looks beautiful when I see them zipping along on those things, and the kids know I'm jealous because I just admit it. And best or worst of all, the control freaks object to all the fun the kids are having, and want to stop it in the name of "safety" as if life were a risk-free proposition. Sheesh.
JMR

I would of loved to have had

I would of loved to have had those Heelies too sarc....

I loved roller-skating, good at it too...even had to use a key back then....then they improved somewhat to tie-ups....

Who cared about knee-pads and head gear!

Expressed with such...

Expressed with such... a mellifluous voice. Great analysis Rich. (;~> gary

Jack Cafferty, aka "Flou

Jack Cafferty, aka "Flounder" will NEVER apologize.  I wonder if he ever went back I looked at all the things he has been wrong on.  He is batting 033%.

Cafferty is an older model of

Cafferty is an older model of Olbermoron. Neither are ever called on their tripe, so why should things change over this?

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

My predictions

1) they (the MSM) will either not cover it, or gloss over it and only talk about the 1 dissenting vote.

2) It will appear again. The case was basically dismissed because of lack of standing. Nothing was decided about whether the program itself is legal or not.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

You mean they won't call for

You mean they won't call for the impeachment of that Carter-Appointed judge?

I'm shocked! ; )

I expect the MSM to focus on

I expect the MSM to focus on the fact that both judges in the majority are republican appointees.  Of course, they will not mention that the dissenter is a Clinton appointee.  The liberal bias here is so shocking that it defies description.  Of course, nobody will have any kind of substantive discussion regarding the legal issues in the decision - then they would actually see that the decision is correct. 

Exposure...

Bush, for all of his faults, has brought about something I did'nt think was possable. He- not by his own doing, but by his very existance-has prompted the MSM to expose themselves badly. I always heard about the lib media, I remember Rush pounding on this in the late 80's. I was like, "yeah, right", now it very clear that Rush was right. Today's MSM does'nt even try to hide the fact that they are BARELY  to the right of Radio Havanna Cuba. If you have never listened, they do news, & often follow it up with an longwinded editorial. Sort of like someones "Special Comment", it's kind of amusing, except you know that they are serious about their hatred of America.

Most in the MSM might need a refresher on civics here in America. Too many talk about their rights, but almost never talk about the part of being responsible. That would cover most on the left today.

"A goverment big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away"        Barry Goldwater

Yes, excellently put danybhoy

Yes, excellently put danybhoy.

I've been feeling this way as well.  People are outting themselves as vitriolic, biased America-hating psychopaths.  I can't tell if it's a thing where journalists now think that they are stars, and that they are just as, if not more important than the people making decisions, but it's gotten so bad that there is almost no such thing as unbiased journalism anymore.  It's not about reporting facts, it's about having round table circle-jerks with like-minded crazies who all sit around and stroke each others ego's, meanwhile our nation is under attack from outside, and from within. 

This is good.  I always know

This is good.  I always know people could be listenning, especially with all of the OCONUS calls my husband makes to me, and the IM on government computers, and the video emails through AKO.  I have to decide, "do I restrict myself because someone could be listenning?  Or do I just really make it worth their while by being the hottest I can be?"  I tend to ignor it and am content that if they can hear me, they can hear them; and as long as it does not wind up on entertainment tonight I am ok with it.

Turley is the one person I am

Turley is the one person I am glad got kicked in his arrogant arse with this ruling...I have watched him from his beginning television wise....

Nothing makes me happier.

Sad that these enemies within want to hurt this administration so bad and enable the enemy everywhere...during a time of war, which may save their useless leftist lives and all of ours...are still at this very moment spinning, twisting and whining about it now on CNN.

Someone ought to fire these liars the way they continually report the news...never gonna happen.

Btw...I forgot to add Leahy too in with who it makes me smile that got defeated with this ruling.

The nonsense that accompanies

The nonsense that accompanies these rulings is mere rhetoric. A judge’s legal authority is not a moral authority, no matter how self-righteous they seem. A ruling over a constitutional principle is like an umpire’s decision on whether a player is safe or out. The fact that we need to accept the umpire’s decision doesn’t make it true. If the runner beats the tag by four feet, but the umpire calls him out, we don’t throw out our perceptions and assume we were wrong. We may have to accept the result, but we don’t have to agree with it.

When Cafferty (can you say acid reflux?) says that the original ruling “proves” that Bush has been lying to us, he’s trying to portray the judge’s legal authority as a moral authority. He exposes either: (a) his own stupidity or (b) his own lying, or (c) both. We can expect the same thing, for instance, if Scooter Libby wins on appeal.  

Corporate Media Coudn't Care Less

Let's be clear here. The case was overturned on the grounds that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring it. The question about the surveillance program's constitutionality remains to be resolved. I seriously doubt that the corporate media will take the trouble to make that important distinction. "Now back to you, Maury, for more on those expensive John Edwards haircuts. And after the break, we'll have an in-depth analysis of Britney Spears' love life." That kind of media mindlessness has aided and abetted Bush and Cheney's execrable effort to push this nation toward neo-fascism using 9/11 and the terrorist threat as their ever-present excuse.

"The case was overturned

"The case was overturned on the grounds that the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring it."

You are correct, taking. The plaintiffs being the ACLU, I believe.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Was the ACLU...whcih made it

Was the ACLU...which made it even more pricless for me when I heard it!

"neo-fascism"? Oh,

"neo-fascism"? Oh, for Pete's sake. Employing terms like that destroys any credibility you may have had.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

LOL, actually all it takes fo

LOL, actually all it takes for me is the first 3 letters, "Neo".  It's a clear giveaway that the person using the prefix (as in calling people "neoconservatives") is holed up in an academic Ivory Tower someplace. and thus totally out of touch with reality.

Liberal academics (are there any other kind?) live in a dream world-for years they are professional students, then they get a job brainwashing young minds.

If their liberal peers approve, they are then rewarded with "tenure", which means that they will NEVER have job-performance reviews, etc. They're set with a job for life, and can say or do anything they want, without any fear of getting fired. A far-left professor I once argued with online once said that the proudest moment of his life was when all three of his sons were awarded tenure at the cesspools of higher education of their choice.

What other type of career gives you all that? Even when one makes a career in the military, they can easily be prosecuted for bad deeds. But in academia, it rarely happens. 

A classic cut-and-run, huh?

A classic cut-and-run, huh?

George W. Bush is not a full-fledged conservative, but I still support his presidency. (Although I am rethinking this position daily!) Still, I'd rather have him as president than ANY of the Democrats.

Merry Christmas 2007.

It is always a pleasing thing

It is always a pleasing thing to me when a biased, ill-informed, lying member of the msm gets his teeth figuratively handed to him/her--eventually they all do because lies can only hold up so long.  Cafferty is a propogandist and nothing more--one day he'll be gone.   

Liberalism is a convenient lie.

*worried*

That include 900 numbers too?.. Oh My!

Lord Gore: "Ladies a

Lord Gore: "Ladies and gentlemen, I will now explain to you, my Seven Point Pledge to save the planet. As you know, a pledge is basically a promise, and Seven Points is a TouchDown. Now stay with me here. Touch means 'to caress', and Down is the soft under feathers of a goose. So basically, I'm asking everyone to promise to pet goose feathers. If just 10% of the population will pet goose feathers, this would form a concensus, and with this concensus, we can pressure the Evil Republicans to cave in to our demands."

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

 About 2/3rds into this thre

 About 2/3rds into this thread I read  - "HOLY CRAP GENE, we used the word cat in two consecutive posts. The code is compromised. Abort! Abort! "

I know I'm just a simpleton but I nearly fell out of my chair in laughter after reading it. Talk about capturing the utter lunicey of the moonbat left....

Liberals and the Law

It seems that Liberals only like the appeals process when it suits them.  They don't like this one, because it tears down a template for the 2008 election, and they certainly don't like Scooter Libby being free, while he appeals his case. 

The media is an amazing bunch.  They don't hesitate to show their liberal stripes but, in the meantime, they show how inconsistent they are, as to what offends them. Their hypocrisy seems to be the one thing that is their undoing, as far as viewship goes.  FoxNews may have opinions but, most of us would agree, at least their consistent. 

Never argue with an idiot.  They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

On 12 June, Zinie Chen Sampso

On 12 June, Zinie Chen Sampson of the AP reported from Richmond on the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that the government should charge Ali al-Marri, “a legal U.S resident and the only suspected enemy combatant on American soil, or release him from military custody.” She did not mention that the two judges so ruling were Clinton appointees.

She also wrote that, “In August, a federal judge in Detroit said the government’s domestic spying program violated constitutional rights to free speech and privacy, and the constitutional separation of powers.” She did not write that the judge was a Carter appointee.