North American Union continued...


I want to start another thread, becuase the other one is too long and has too many people changing the subject.

This guy lays down what is happening. That the NAU is further along than most people realize, and apart from people in Texas, very few Americans know this is even happening.

http://www.youtube.c...

Newsbusters needs to jump on this soon...


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an excerpt--

 An excerpt from an article by Col. Daniel Smith, U.S. Army (Ret.) in FPIF.

"In fact, George Bush’s entire term of office has been one unending attempt to make an end-run around Congress’ legislative power as provided for in Article I of the constitution. The Founding Fathers provided in Article II of the constitution the president’s remedy. Under Article II, should the president disagree with provisions of legislation passed by Congress, he can veto the legislation, thereby challenging Congress to muster a two-thirds super-majority in each House to override the president’s objections."

 My contention with which some people disagree is that part of GW Bush's plan is to provide the Presidency the power to affect a treaty that will indeed create the NAU. I submit to those who disagree that the USA has seen many laws enacted that the general public either did not know about or did not understand.

I do not see GWs intention as evil or good. I believe he sincerely believes that it will be good for America. Us old fogies (including the body politic of 19 states), seem to be in disagreement. I am in favor of improving the highway system. I am strongly opposed to seizing land under eminent domain for public projects that are already planned to be sold to private investors. I do not think any highway in America should be owned by anyone except the 280 million American citizens. I do not want these roads managed by any private industry and if that is unavoidable, no highway should be managed by a foreign entity. (Please remember American reaction at the plan to allow Dubai to manage an American port.)

I am not a member of the hierarchy of rich, wanting to be richer, citizens of this world. I have no desire to wield power other than my proud right to vote as a citizen. I am no saint or in depth religious person, but I am fully aware of the avarice of man and the extents to which some will go to implement their personal dreams and desires. There are many in this world who will never have enough of worldly wealth , no matter how much they have.  Wealth is secondary to power. Power is the mead that many men and women drink to become intoxicated. As I have aged and observed more and more of this world we live in, I have become more and more amazed at how many incompetent people rise to positions of power. I do not mean they are incompetent in all matters. I mean the Peter Principle is alive and thriving in America today and is nowhere more evident than in the world of politics.   I will anger many of the liberals who come to this site  and perhaps offend some of our female members when I say that Nancy Pelosi is a classic example of what I mean. She is a fatuous fool. She, in my observations so far has exhibited not a single trace of wisdom, patriotism, leadership or practical, political sense. (I still believe the President should have had her charged under the Logan act).

Most of the above was the maunderings of a doddering old man, however, back to NAU and Presidential power. Robert Pastor, Henry Kissinger, David Rockefeller, etal are seeking to build a commercial utopia. (Utopia to them.) I believe Cheney and Bush subscribe to this theory. They will do all they can to make it happen. They are dynamists--I am a conspiro and a statist. Lord  help me. 

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Author: 

yet another

 Here's one of Phyllis' articles.

 

 

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Author: 

goooodbye social security

 

Looky here for more great SPP ideas.

 

 

 

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Author: 

This is troubling to people

This is troubling to people in all three countries. It looks like our sovereignty is truly on-the-line here, and that all three countries may not have a public say in this. Pressure your Representative to demand an open debate on this issue!!!

More SPP info

Here is an article from WorldNetDaily by Jerome Corsi
about the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP).

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

SPP moves towards North American air traffic control

Well, just one more step towards formation of the NAU...now we are headed to
a North American air traffic control structure. (h/t WorldNetDaily)

[Shhhhh...don't tell unsane that its not a conspiracy. unsane sleeps better by denying the facts. ]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

More on the NAU existence

Another article on WorldNetDaily...OKC Mayor regrets his involvment with the NAU.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Cheney's denial

Wow...this is interesting. I am a Cheney fan, but his denial is interesting.

"The administration is not engaged in a secret plan to create a 'NAFTA super highway'"

I think the key word is 'secret'...the cat is out of the bag.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

NAFTA Superhighway and the bridge collapse

A 1998 report "warned increasing NAFTA truck traffic was expected to create a safety concern
with bridges in states along the I-35 NAFTA Superhighway, including Minnesota
."

WND has the complete story.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

More NAU...especially for unsane

Here is some printed material concerning the NAU/SPP.

[This is especially for unsane who proclaims a preference to printed information.]

signed by a Canadian???

how can this be??? Canada will never allow it!!??!! 

SPP, an agreement signed in 2005 by President George W. Bush, Paul Martin of Canada and Vicente Fox of Mexico,

Support our Troops   

shhhhhhh

shhhhhh!....Remember, according to unsane, this is a conspiracy.

LK,

LOL-Are you try'n, in the now immortal words of William Wallace, "to pick a fight?"

Actually, in the end, I think the re-paving equipment that was reported to have been parked on that bridge (which is extremely heavy), plus the vibration of the surrounding construction activity (jackhammers and what not), will be found to be the culprit in the bridge's collapse, particularly given the now well known fact that the strength of said bridge was already compromised.

Help Fred defeat everybody.

DaveR...

Weird how the comments are arranged in this forum.

As for picking a fight...I am just trying to help unsane get his head out of the sand.

I agree with you about the actual cause...I too believe it was probably do to the activities on and around the bridge.

(sigh)

It's not a conspiracy.

From Phyllis Schafly

 From Phyllis Schafly  august 8, 2007

posted by a humble "conspiro"

"The front man for this galaxy of globalists is former Senator Sam Nunn. One more household name is Richard Armitage, the man who leaked Valerie Plame's name to the press.

The favorite business authority Peter F. Drucker wrote in his 1993 book Post-Capitalist Society that the European Union "triggered the attempt to create a North American economic community, built around the United States but integrating both Canada and Mexico into a common market."

He gleefully added, "So far this attempt is purely economic in its goal, but it can hardly remain so in the long run. ... The economic integration of the three countries into one region is proceeding so fast that it will make little difference whether the marriage is sanctified legally or not."

Now that the game plan is laid out, we can connect the dots: NAFTA, the admission of Mexican trucks onto our highways, the contract to build the TransTexas Corridor and the plans to extend it into a NAFTA Super Highway, making Kansas City an international "port," the "totalization" of illegal aliens into our Social Security system, and the recently defeated Senate amnesty bill. That bill would have integrated 20 million illegal aliens into our labor force, locked us (by Section 413) into the SPP, and spent massive foreign aid to "improve the standard of living in Mexico."  

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
Author: 

Mister Bill...excellent post

MB, very nice and well written. I like how you laid out the chronology.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Yes, but WHERE ARE THE

Yes, but WHERE ARE THE PLANES? Do you seee any mexican planes flying over our skies?? Do you even know the history behind Mexicans and their planes? They would never allow such atrocities to happen...and don't get me started on the Canadians...they throw a fit when you even mention installing air traffic systems that will cover all of North America!!!

/making fun of Insane off

Solutions

1) study history,

2) study culture,

3) I live in TX and know that this is total BS. 

4) The Conspiros can't even settle on where the EVIL Trans Texas Corridor will be...

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Lol..."Don't worry abo

Lol..."Don't worry about the NAFTA superhighway or a NAU. The "informed" american people would never let this happen. They know too much about foreign policy, economics, and the constitution to want a so called "North American Union."

Yea right. We're talking about people who still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11 and that they had wmd's (by the way, the wmd "team" just stopped their investigation since after 5 years they couldn't find the supposed threat.)

I'm not saying Americans are stupid, but I am saying they are naive/ignorant when it comes to politics ESPECIALLY when the policies are being created behind closed doors.

More NAU proof

Nice site, TP

NIce site, TP.   I particularly liked the link to "Riddles in Stone: Secret Archecticture of Washington D.C."

"Why was this nation founded? How was the precise location of Washington, D.C., determined? What is the meaning of the seemingly countless occult images in our nation's capitol?...For years, extreme controversy has abounded as to the exact meaning of the occult symbols found within the street layout, the buildings, and the monuments of Washington, D.C.....Is there really an inverted Pentagram formed by the street layout just north of the White House?"

RJ, dunno about the occult, b

RJ, dunno about the occult, but if you look at the map of Washington DC from the Linclon Memorial to the Capitol, and from the Whitehouse to the Jefferson Memorial...there is a definite symbol there!  Kind of fits with all the inscriptions on most of them!

So vrwc & RJ: What do you

So vrwc & RJ: What do you make of the fact that the Washington Monument is clearly a phallic symbol? ????????

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Washington is after all the f

Washington is after all the father of the country

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts 

As you can see, they are ha

As you can see, they are having trouble getting people to buy into the TTC, much less, a North American Union. It is not like it is completely under the radar. I think the trouble they will have building the TTC will eventually bring this out into the light. I am expecting quite a dustup on this superhighway before it is all said and done. Texans really fight hard when it comes to their land being taken away by govt., especially in the rural areas. I do agree that the sooner that we can get this out into the open the better. Sites like this can go a long way to this end. We should remember, Mexicans are as fiercely independent as Americans are. I wouldn't expect something like this to go over without a fight from Mexico.

On TTC

Opposition to the TTC has more to do with right-of-way issues and cost than with a ballyhooed phantom conspiracy.  (And those gripes I'll hear any day.  I'm undecided on the whole thing to be quite honest.) 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

fuel for unsane

You keep acting as though the Trans-Texas Corridor [Dallas Morning News] is a myth.

The proposed route does in fact run parallel to I-35.

In fact, here is the official website.

Here is the site for the WatchDog group.

There even is a wiki entry.

Here is a whole list of TTC info.

Care to respond to these or are all of these conspiracy links?

[btw, I find it extremely interesting that everything negative about
the government constitutes a conspiracy. That Oswald must have been one
hell of shot with the magic bullet. I find it doubly interesting that you never address this consiracy theory...I am sure you believe the Warren Report.]

Please do me a favor, and bef

Please do me a favor, and before you respond to my posts and make a complete fool of yourself, learn to read.

I have stated before, in a direct response to YOU, on another thread, that I know the Trans Texas Corridor proposal has been around for YEARS. 

The proposed route does in fact parallel...I-69.  Or does it?  The Conspiros cannot agree.  But the ONLY discussion I have heard about the Trans Texas Corridor centers on I-69.

The merits/disadvantages of a Trans Texas Corridor are up to debate, and I am very much into hearing the pros and cons.  However, way too many of you believe that this is part of some conspiracy that will bring about a union with two neighbors that really don't want any part of a union with the United States. 

No one wants to address the point that I have repeatedly made: that Ottawa and Mexico City (who are constantly conveniently left out of the equation, and why?  This "union involves THEM, does it not?) fear such an arrangement infinitely more than any poster here at NB.

And of course this "NAU" BS is so APPLE-PIE easy to make happen.  If this is so:

Why did Canadians throw a fit over the suggestion that they should harmonize their Customs regulations/procedures with the United States in response to 11 September 2001?

Why did Mexico come 380,000 votes away from voting in a complete isolationist? 

And those questions are for starters.  Plenty more where they came from, if any of the Conspiros are willing to take a shot at them?

(btw, why should I respond to your question about the Warren Commission report?  I am sure you believe every single frame of JFK...)

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unsane...afraid to answer

So, unsane, just as I thought. You are afraid to address the issue of the Warren Report.

[Keep your head buried in the sand, it will be okay.]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

I'll address it one more time

I'll address it one more time, courtesy of Benjamin Franklin:

Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

And once more, courtesy of William of Occam:

"Entries should not be multiplied unnecessarily."

If you cannot understand what that means in relation to JFK, the 16th Amendment, the "staged moon landings", and whatever other conspiracies you cling to as Linus van Pelt clings to his security blanket, I cannot help you. 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

unsane...sad

unsane, this is so sad.

"Entries should not be multiplied unnecessarily."

So, you adopt that simple answer is the right answer. I certainly thought you were capable of critical thinking. You demonstrate totally that you are close-minded and unwilling to even explore the possibility that the Warren Report is a lie.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

(yawn) conspiracies

The ones who claim they are open-minded (which you do by whining that I am closed-minded) are in reality themselves the most closed-minded people on the planet.  So thank you for the amusing accusation there.

I would be willing to bet that I have read more on the JFK assassination than you have.  When I was a teenager (can't believe sometimes that I type that in past tense like that, but it's true, I was one once!) I ate this stuff up the same way you are right now. 

But you see, as I understand history, I know that skeletons cannot remain in the closet forever.  We constantly are finding out more and more about the past with each day.  For an example, I knew the day would come when we would discover the identity of "Deep Throat" - people can't keep things like that under wraps for long.

The Warren Commission report came out 40 years ago.  Do you mean to tell me that NOT ONE PERSON has stepped forward after all these years to confirm your religious belief that it is a lie???  For me, that is extremely hard to believe. 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

unsane...you embarrass yourself

unsane...sadly, you embarrass yourself. You insult and offer opinion, but you never provide contradicting evidence...just your blind faith in the government. Don't let physics get in the way or eyewitness accounts of the sounds of bullets from 3 directions (triangulation), just stick to the Warren Report.

Sleep good, but rest assure, other patriots are not so blind to allow the government unbridled power. [A major reason for the 2nd Amendment]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LionKing - Sadly, you actuall

LionKing - Sadly, you actually embarrass yourself.  My contradicting evidence is nothing more than simple human nature.  (Apaprently you have a strong disdain for Benjamin Franklin's words of impeccable wisdom.  Why is that?) Judging by your post, my understanding of human nature is light-years beyond yours, which is truly sad.

Again, I ask you an extremely simple question: it has been 43, going on 44, years since the Kennedy Assassination, and the Warren Commission Report has been out for almost, but not quite, as long.  Why has NOT ONE PERSON involved spoken up about it, if it was in fact a lie or a fabrication? 

The government is so incompetent that it can't even deliver mail to the right addresses, yet they can pull off these elaborate conspiracies with EASE.  Sure.

(Oh, and thanks for impugning my patriotism.  When I take my oath of office for the fifth time in the coming years - you know, that statement about "support[ing] and defend[ing] the Constitution of the United States"??? - I'll have to keep your asinine comment in mind.)

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

unsane

"...thanks for impugning my patriotism."

Actually, I never impugned your patriotism. In fact, I have thanked you for your service to our country. I have no doubt that you love our country.

We differ on opinions about the role of government. I think this is still the greatest country in the world...I just think that things could be even better.

Having said that, if I have implied in any way that you do not love this country or have done this country a disservice, please accept my apology.

As for your conjecture about the Kennedy assassination and no one coming forward...I believe that the mafia was involved. They have a tremendous ability to silence those they deem need silencing. Perhaps that is why Oswald was assassinated by someone with known ties to the mob. Imagine if Oswald was actually given a trial.

 

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

 

Ben Franklin, one more time

Not even the mafia can silence all of the people all of the time.  Not even the yakuza can do that.  As I insist, Benjamin Franklin's words from the Poor Richard's Almanack fit quite well here. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

"Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand..."

What, LionKing?  You don't like my posts, so you moderate them instead of responding to them?  Weak...but what else can I expect from one who swallows conspiracy theories like they are going out of style?

Allow me to pour lots of very unpleasant cold water on all of your conspiracy theories, courtesy of Benjamin Franklin: "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead." 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

unsane...dillusional

unsane...You are dillusional. I never moderated your comments. I do not subscribe to every conspiracy theory, but I certainly feel obligated to watch what my government is doing instead of burrying my head in the sand.

[I didn't think it was possible, but you are starting to sound like tumbler.]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Well...somebody did...and my

Well...somebody did...and my apologies if it was not in fact you. 

I constantly watch what my government is doing, but I acknowledge the fact that if they are too incompetent to educate our children, they can't be all that bright at bringing about the conspiracy theories you so love.   

[I didn't think it was possible, but you are starting to sound like LibertyorDeath, and ThoughtPolice.]

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

What's happening and what's b

What's happening and what's been happening:

"This is a WorldNetDaily http://www.worldnetd...

Monday, May 21, 2007

Late author Peter Drucker saw Mexico, Canada, U.S. integrating so fast, nothing could stop

...While even in 2007 many express skepticism ... 14 years ago, one of world's most celebrated economists and management experts said it was already on the fast track – and nothing could stop it.

Peter F. Drucker, in one of his dozens of best-selling books, "Post Capitalist Society," published in 1993, wrote that the European Community, the progenitor of the European Union, "triggered the attempt to create a North American economic community, built around the United States but integrating both Canada and Mexico into a common market."

"So far this attempt is purely economic in its goal," wrote the Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree. "But it can hardly remain so in the long run."

… Also of interest is where the movement began.

"What makes this so important is that the impetus for the North American economic community did not come from the United States; it came from Mexico," he writes. "Yet for over 150 years, ever since Mexico was unified under the presidency of Benito Juarez, the goal of Mexican policy has been to put as much distance as possible between its country and its pushy and totally alien neighbor to the north. No two contiguous countries in the world are as different as Mexico and the United States in language, in religion, but above all in culture, values and tradition. Yet Mexico had to accept in the end that the 150 years of isolationist policy had ended in failure; in order to survive as a country and civilization, it has to integrate itself, at least economically, with the huge, dangerous and alien neighbor to the north."

It all began with a plan to establish common customs procedures between the three countries, he wrote.

"The treaty which the Mexican government has proposed to establish a customs union between Mexico and the other two North American countries, the United States and Canada, may fail to go through," he explained. "But the economic integration of the three countries into one region is proceeding so fast that it will make little difference whether the marriage is sanctified legally or not."

… 

Most of those denying the drive toward integration, or for a North American Union, point out that it has not been debated in Congress – that no legislation has been introduced for actual merger. But Drucker pointed out 14 years ago that political and economic inertia was already so strong, the formalities of legislation would not be necessary to achieve the goals.

That's not to say there aren't officials working overtime on integration.

In March, WND uncovered a State Department cable of Commerce Secretary Carlo Gutierrez pressing to implement major trilateral initiatives to help "capture the vision of North American integration."

The cable was among some 150 pages of State Department SPP documents …

 

 

On overwhelming, irrational FEAR

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!  THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Wow!  I never knew that 200+ years of history and cultural development was so EASILY overridden!  THE EVIL SPP just HAS to be chaired by the Antichrist for sure!

If all of this is SO APPLE PIE EASY to accomplish...

Why did Canada throw a fit over the mere suggestion that they harmonize their Customs regulations/procedures with the United States in the wake of 11 September 2001? 

Why did Mexico coem within 380,000 votes of voting in a complete isolationist a year ago (a man who, in fact, has never left Mexico at all!)?

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

The Buffoonish to English tr

The Buffoonish to English translation software hasn't arrived yet, until it does no one can interpret your posts, signed The Management.

Answer the questions.

If you are so bereft of rationality and critical thinking to the point of not being able to answer very simple questions, be a man and just say so.

Signed, A Realist and Rational Thinker

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

For the record, I've not mode

For the record, I've not moderated any of your posts. 

And I don't converse with the unreasonable.

The questions I ask are roote

The questions I ask are rooted in 100% logic and reason.  (You whine that I am "unreasonable" because you disagree with reasoned judgments based on a solid foundation of history, culture, and personal observation.)  You should have ZERO trouble answering them.  Again:

If this "NAU" is so APPLE PIE EASY:

1) Why did Canadians throw a fit over the mere suggestion that it harmonize its Customs laws/procedures with the U.S. in the wake of 11 September 2001?

2) Why did Mexico come within 380,000 votes of voting in a complete isolationist to its presidency a year ago?

Well?

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

Interesting SPP/NAU article

Here are some excerpts from an interesting article by Wes Vernon about a recent debate on this topic:

"Opponents of U.S. sovereignty plan to sneak their agenda around Congress…Wes Vernon Wes Vernon July 9, 2007…

It will not happen overnight...multinational corporations, politicians, and academic one-worlders envision "evolution by stealth" — i.e… patterned after the manner in which the European Union was established…

There was an interesting debate here ... Sponsored by Judicial Watch ... arguing for full disclosure of plans ...

… [opposed by] Dr. Robert Pastor — … American University, …and David Bohigian, Assistant Secretary of Commerce in the Bush administration…

… actions undertaken … are eerily reminiscent of how the European Union (EU) came into being… not all at once, but step by step over forty years.

… Bohigian even went so far as to say, "I don't see anything frankly in this SPP that would even rise to the level of legislation — let alone a treaty." Ergo, no need to get the OK of a Congress elected by the people. How convenient.

 … Phyllis Schlafly … put it this way: "… people getting together somewhere in Mr. Bohigian's offices and working on and changing our administrative law. And we don't think it should be done that way. Any changes in our regulation should be posted in the federal register so we can comment on it and pass on it…"…

Author and scholar Jerome Corsi says the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) — … (Kissinger, et al) — plans to submit a report to the White House and Congress by September 30 on the supposed benefits of the three-nation "integration."…

… Dr. Corsi says, "The plan is to present [as] fait accompli to Congress — an admitted 12 million illegals to cross the border — about ¾ of them under [George W. Bush] — and then tell us there's nothing we can do but to pass a law that legitimates their effort to stay... Same with [Homeland Security Secretary Michael] Chertoff saying he can't enforce the laws unless he gets new ones..."…

Both Phyllis Schlafly and Rosemary Jenks made the point that if SPP were doing something to be proud of, why has there been no publicity about its workings? Bohigian shrugged his shoulders, in effect saying that's out of his hands.

Having been a journalist for decades, I was not about to let that one stand... The government is loaded with well-paid flaks whose sole responsibility is to see to it that word gets to the media...

The Red China angle... Corsi's fact-filled tome is that "China stands to gain most ..."

That much we surmised, given (1) that the Chinese have invested in huge deep-water ports on Mexico's west coast … (2) that through the Chinese-controlled firm Hutchison-Whampoa (… controls … Panama Canal), … deeper and wider... permit megaships … directly to Gulf ports and East Coast ports … ports along the Mississippi River ...

… a system of sensors to track the shipments of containers once they are within North America... remotely ... across the U.S. from Mexico to Canada.

 … The Chinese-controlled Hutchison interests … own 49 percent of the Lockheed-Martin subsidiary that worked on the technology project with NASCO

Can China be trusted?  The late Constantine Menges, PHD — with national security experience at the White House and the CIA — warned that China (a) can launch nuclear weapons that in 30 minutes could kill 100-million Americans; (b) defines the U.S. as its main enemy; (c) through espionage, has stolen designs for nearly all U.S. nuclear warheads and many other military secrets; (d) buys weapons systems from Russia designed to sink U.S. aircraft carriers; (e) has threatened to destroy American cities if the U.S. helps democratic Taiwan; (f) is a leading supplier of weapons of mass destruction to rogue and/or terrorist states such as North Korea and Iran...

We would get results from Congress in a hurry if Americans were as focused on this issue as they were on the immigration debate. That requires publicity…"

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/vernon/070709

Maybe there has been no publi

Maybe there has been no publicity about the SPP (THE EVIL SPP) because the SPP is virtually totally meaningless?  And sheesh, I know that China is up to no good (re: the attempt to blind one of our satellites last year, their upgrading of their nuclear weapons), but now you are desperately trying to tie the SPP to them?  That's a bit of a reach...one that should easily span the Pacific.

While I appreciate your concern about China (who I keep an eye on through various means), the fact remains that you are a protectionist/isolationist in the absolute extreme.  That you do not wish to converse with the "unreasonable" is merely evidence that you despise having your beliefs challenged. 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

From Judicial Watch http://ww

From Judicial Watch http://www.judicialwatch.org/6216.shtml:

“Mar 20, 2007 …(Washington, DC)  Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, today released Department of Homeland Security (DHS) records obtained under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act containing Secretary Michael Chertoff’s September 22, 2005 Implementation Memorandum for the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP).  The records describe the agencies within the Department of Homeland Security responsible for executing the partnership’s security agenda. 

According to the memorandum signed by Secretary Chertoff:  “…The [Security and Prosperity Partnership] has, in addition to identifying a number of new action items, comprehensively rolled up most of our existing homeland security-related policy initiatives with Canada and Mexico, and ongoing action and reporting in the various U.S.-Canada and U.S.-Mexico working groups led by DHS [Department of Homeland Security] should now be driven by a single agenda:  the SPP.”

The records also contain an information paper describing ten “Prosperity Pillar Working Groups,” and the organization of the “US-Mexico Critical Infrastructure Protection Work Group.”  … heavily redacted ...

Another record reviewed and released by DHS is a 10-page chart listing 36 “SPP Security High-Level Working Groups” that include the “Mexico-US Repatriation Technical WG,” the “Mexico-US Intelligence and Information Sharing WG,” and the “Canada-US Cross Border Crime Forum,” among others.

“These new records prove the Security and Prosperity Partnership is being directed by officials at the very highest levels of the United States government,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.  “Americans should know that the SPP is a core policy initiative for many agencies in our government, including the Department of Homeland Security.”

On March 23, 2005, heads of government Vincente Fox, George W. Bush, and Paul Martin launched the North American partnership at a meeting in Waco, Texas,…”

One would have to be completely ignorant of public policy and government to not see the implications.

One would have to be 100% com

One would have to be 100% completely ignorant of the history and culture of the two neighbors that this phantom merger is supposed to take place with to not see how much of a major bitch it would be, even if in fact THE EVIL SPP is working on this right now. 

Again, you are cordially invited to present this to Ottawa and Mexico City, so that you can see the total FEAR - much greater than your own - that such an idea engenders in our northern and southern neighbors.

Even the EU (which doubtless you are thinking "Damnit Unsane!  It happened so easily there, IT WILL HAPPEN HERE TOO!!!") was only possible after a massive bloodletting, the exhaustion of empire, the need to rebuild economies, and to pool resources to counter a major threat to the east.  Those conditions don't even exist here.

Want more proof of how history is stacked against the Conspiros and protectionist fearmongers?  Check out the difficulties that Mercosur is experiencing, and that's among nations (with Brazil as an exception) who speak the same language.  Or, the fact that ASEAN can't even come up with a customs union (something NAFTA is light-years away from being).

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

You just don't let facts ge

You just don't let facts get in the way of your feelings, do you?*  The "phantom" in all of your posts is this vast "knowledge of history and culture" that you claim.  OTOH, you do seem to have expletives, dubious labels and ad hominem attacks (among other irrationalities) in abundance.

*Rhetorical questions don't require answers, BTW.

My questions are only rhetori

My questions are only rhetorical because you want them to be.  They in fact require answers.  But here is a yes or no question:

Are you a protectionist? 

This vast knowledge of history and culture is not a "claim of mine".  It just is.  If you hit a library sometime, you can see for yourself what I am taking about.  You need some quotations and sources?  I'll be happy to provide them at some point. 

I just might anyway, just to prove the simple point that this EVIL SPP/NAU fantasy is just that - and in any event, no Conspiro dares to factor in those nations that are allegedly part of this scheme, namely Canada and Mexico.  Why, they'll just sheepishly fall in line, right?   

It's funny hearing you whine about expletives, dubious labels and ad hominem attacks, when you yourself have engaged in the same. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Immigration Security and Prosperity

Again you've misread, I put the footnote (marked w/ an asterisk) in my post above to indicate that you didn't need to answer my rhetorical question.  I think you've either not read or misread everything I've posted.  So I'll just close with this link to an article that explains much of what I've been trying to get across to you: Immigration Security and Prosperity

QUESTION

I think you have a hard time reading, so I find it amusing that you accuse me of such.

Are you a protectionist?  Yes, or No? 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Again you raise an irrelevant, already covered subject

See Here, again you bring up a subject that I've already covered (which is why I question your reading skills and whether you even bother to read at all).

BTW, did you read the article linked in my previous post that explains what I'm trying to get across? (Here's that link again just in case you didn't: Immigration Security and Prosperity)

Irony

It is hilarious to hear you whining about my ability to read when you cannot read yourself.  The pot is calling the kettle black.

So, again, a YES or NO question: Are you a protectionist?

Finally, you can post three million links explaining how THE EVIL SPP is going to take over three countries in 2010, but I will not click on them.  I utilize a simple concept called source evaluation.  This is nearly impossible to do on the Internet.  To underscore this: in my time in academia, I have used Internet sources TWICE,and ONLY after getting them vetted several times over.  The number of links I actually follow is very, very small.  Besides, I haven't posted links very much in my time on NB...because I use ancient technology, like books and libraries.  This is a practice I shall follow 98% of the time, in spite of whining (from some) for links. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

waddle down to your library and check up on it

The link I referred to Here is a conversation that we had a few months ago where I answered your irrelevant question (along with the many other extraneous topics you raised).  The second link, Immigration Security and Prosperity, contains an essay written by a real academic, James R. Edwards, Jr., Ph.D., Adjunct Fellow of the Hudson Institute.  His essay is very thorough and well footnoted, if you care to waddle down to your library and check up on it.  

Inability?

Why can't you answer my very simple question: "Are you a protectionist?  YES or NO?" without falling back on "WAAAAHHHH!!!  Read this link!!!  Read this book!!!  It explains everything!!!"

Are you telling me that you are completely incapable of thinking for yourself?  If so, then you can call me utterly disappointed.

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Maybe he thinks "managed"

Maybe he thinks "managed" trade, with an almost-incomprehensible rule-book that runs into the thousands of pages for a lawyer-welfare program benefitting large firms, isn't the same thing as free trade...And what got your panties in a knot this morning???
JMR

Not quite

No, some here on the board believe that free trade means a Schengen Pact and the Nice Treaty, automatically.  Never mind that we wouldn't be able to enter a freakin' customs union with Canada OR Mexico, due to mutual opposition, MUCH LESS have this ballyhooed conspiratorial "NAU".   The Conspiros have even dreamt up the "amero" as a common currency...as if the Canadians would DARE cough up their ability to set their own monetary policy, much less our southern neighbors.  (I guess the Conspiro population isn't creative on names, just the conspiracies.)

As for your last question, I ask that almost every time I see you post on NB.  Consider my irony meter fully pegged.

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

a question for fortunetellers and handicappers

A "conspiracy" is by definition secret and illegal.  That many influential members of the foreign policy community believe that a NAU is favorable and that they are working toward that end is neither secret nor illegal; it is a simple fact.  And the SPP and the proposed NAFTA Superhighway follow the CFR recommendations for attaining such a union.

Some argue that it will never happen.  Fine, but that's a separate question, a question for fortunetellers and handicappers.  And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the facts at hand, namely that many political, financial and buisness leaders are working toward regionalization.

The CFR is good at one

The CFR is good at one thing: publishing Foreign Affairs.  To ascribe anything else to them is...silly.

Tell me something, if this EVIL NAFTA SUPERHIGHWAY is the key to the destruction of all American sovereignty, can you explain why the Pan American Highway hasn't yet led to the forging of a Pan American Superstate?  Or why the OAS hasn't taken over the hemisphere yet?  (It has had close to 60 years to do so...) Oh, and never mind that the Conspiros can't even make up their minds where this superhighway is supposed to be.  Yes, LionKing, I have heard of the freakin' TTC, BUT NO CONSPIRO can agree on where it will be!

Again, and again, and again, if this NAU is so APPLE-PIE EASY, SO HAPPENING, and an IMMUTABLE FACT, then explain:

why the Canadians threw a fit over the teensy little SUGGESTION that Customs laws/procedures be harmonized with the United States?  Wouldn't THE EVIL SPP have to do that at some point?

why did the Mexicans nearly elect a isolationist president by 0.6% of the vote?

(I have more questions, but since the Conspiros only answer these with more whining about how I hate the Constitution, how I am part of the conspiracy, how I don't care about the country, blah blah blah, I'll just keep on asking until someone puts on their critical thinking caps and answers them.)

Have you or any of the other Conspiros run this by any Canadians or Mexicans yet?  Oh, I get it.  They don't factor into the equation at all, do they?  (Never mind that in this conspiracy it takes three to tango...)

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Not interest in joining your irrelevant flights of fancy

I'm sure that you have various fantastic theories floating around in your head that absolutely fascinate you.  But I really have no interest in joining your irrelevant flights of fancy.  I'm interested in the facts:

On March 23, 2005, President Bush joined the heads of Canada and Mexico at a summit in Waco, Texas. There the three leaders jointly launched the Security and Prosperity Partnership. This many-faceted initiative has led to the formation of numerous active "working groups" within the U.S. Department of Commerce, Department of Homeland Security, other agencies, and with the other two countries.

SPP represents the U.S., Canadian, and Mexican governments’ efforts at regulatory and other "harmonization" among the three SPP partner nations. These initiatives relate to such wide-ranging policies as trade, transportation, immigration, national security, law enforcement, and energy...  

The March 23, 2005, joint statement of Presidents Bush and Fox and Prime Minister Martin indicated the SPP’s intent … that the "trilateral effort" would "help consolidate our action into a North American framework" to "[i]mplement common border security and bioprotection strategies[,] . . . a border facilitation strategy to build capacity and improve the legitimate flow of people and cargo at our shared borders…"…

A March 15, 2006, Washington, D.C., meeting with U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, providing the priorities of corporate interests for SPP, included, "Work must continue to formalize a transnational labor force that could work in any North American country on a temporary basis."  In other words, the "guestworker" concept would become more prevalent and possibly further undercut the wages and job security ...  

On May 26, 2006, a subsequent U.S. body was launched, called the North American Competitiveness Council.  The NACC is largely the corporate counterpart to the governmental SPP efforts. The working groups and Competitiveness Council have recommended a range of measures to harmonize such things as regulatory standards, border issues, customs, energy, etc. Transnational businesses voiced support for border policies that serve the special interest over the national interest…

The NACC’s final recommendations proposed effectively making the continent’s outermost perimeter the "borders" of all three nations, by "a Perimeter Clearance Strategy for goods and people that interdicts inadmissible people and non low-risk [sic] goods at their foreign point of origin before they reach North American soil…  

The self-serving NACC recommendations also sought to merge several credentialing programs with the US-VISIT entry-exit system, effectively removing any chance of fail-safes catching human threats to national security once someone is on the continent... Further, the NACC would gut the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative by allowing Mexicans, Canadians, and other international travelers to use "low-cost and easily obtainable federally issued documents" which could be easier to falsify and get than a passport.

At the same time during 2005 and 2006, the Traveler Screening Systems Working Group met regularly to determine SPP-oriented policies. The Departments of Commerce, Homeland Security, State, and Transportation had people in this group, which the US-VISIT Office heads. Materials obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the public interest watchdog group Judicial Watch unveil such "deliverables" as technical standards for international travel documents, biometrics and traveler screening "enhancements," ... This working group also coordinated talks with Canada and Mexico for a "One Card," which would amount to an international identification card for easily crossing the borders of the United States, Canada, and Mexico.  

The trilateral "North American Forum," jointly chaired by former high officials from Mexico, Canada, and Reagan’s Secretary of State George Shultz, met in Banff, Alberta, Canada, September 12-14, 2006. Then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and U.S. Northern Command head Timothy Keating numbered among attendees, along with other government officials and corporate elites.

Conference notes (again disclosed under FOIA compliance forced by Judicial Watch) show that attendees considered the Mexican view advocating a change to where the three North American nations "are focused on the best interests of North America" — not national interest.  The direction of Mexico’s influence over SPP was clear: "Troops on [the] border send an enormously powerful negative message;" "North America needs to be more competitive and yet security goals seem to interfere with this outcome[;] [c]losing borders with troops seems to be counter to a continental vision."  

Notes from Banff include those of a session on "demographic and social dimensions of North American integration." They discussed the immigration issue as the "[p]roblem is defined the wrong way — as illegal immigration." …  "Labor mobility is a key to addressing the immigration and economic issues." The North American Forum further tipped its hand as to its purpose: "Most people [are] not compelled by North American integration — need to identify steps that demonstrate [the] concept and success."

In many ways, the SPP follows the contours of broad integration of the three North American nations as outlined in a 2001 book, Toward a North American Community.  … modeled after the European Union. SPP’s general direction tracks a 2005 plan put forth by the Council on Foreign Relations called "Creating a North American Community" ...  

Related issues prompt further concern about SPP. These include several states and localities granting foreign companies long-term leases to manage U.S. highways and to operate them as toll roads; the formation of coalitions advocating huge highway projects such as the Trans-Texas Corridor; and Chinese ownership interest in key trade and transportation enterprises...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=29142

ten7s