CNN's Gupta Fact Checks Michael Moore's 'Sicko'


On Friday's Anderson Cooper 360, CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examined the accuracy of the claims presented in Michael Moore's film Sicko. Gupta found that while there are complaints about America's health care system, "you won't find medical utopia elsewhere." Although Gupta did not show much skepticism in reporting that life expectancies in Cuba are about equal to those in America despite being outspent by American 26 to 1 in health care, the CNN correspondent did report that in countries with tax-funded universal health care, that "even higher taxes don't give all the coverage everyone wants."

Gupta discussed the waiting lines that exist in some industrialized nations, and found that "Americans have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when seeking non-emergency elective procedures," although he also found that "only Canada was worse than the United States when it comes to waiting for a doctor's appointment for a medical problem." After informing viewers of the higher taxes paid in other countries, he also relayed that "even higher taxes don't give all the coverage everyone wants" as health analyst Paul Keckley informed viewers that "15 to 20 percent of the population will purchase services outside the system run by the government." (Transcript follows)

Regarding Cuba, Gupta cited statistics which claim that while America spends substantially more per person on health care each year than Cuba, that America does not have a "far better outcome," contending that life expectancy is about equal in both countries. Gupta: "The United States spends $6,096 a year per person, versus $229 a year in Cuba. And astronomically more money doesn't mean far better outcomes. In fact, Americans live just a little bit longer than Cubans, on average."

After Gupta's report, host Anderson Cooper interviewed Karen Ignagni of America's Health Insurance Plans to hear criticism of Moore's film from the insurance industry point-of-view. During the interview, Cooper was inquisitive about the importance of profit-making for insurance companies, as three out of four questions he asked dealt with profits.

Cooper: "You know, let's be honest. Insurance companies are for-profit businesses, and the way they maximize profits is by minimizing payments. Isn't that correct?"

And later, Cooper continued: "Insurance companies have people whose job is to retroactively look at big claims that have been paid out for any evidence that there might be some preexisting condition so they can, you know, deny the claim. Again, the bottom line is profit for these companies."

And his final question: "There are all these commercials from insurers about how, you know, they want to help people, and clearly, I'm sure there are good people who do want to help people. But again, the bottom line is profit and maximizing profit."

Below is a complete transcript of Gupta's report followed by Cooper's interview with Ignagni from the Friday June 29 Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN:

MICHAEL MOORE, from the June 29 Larry King Live: We have a tragedy taking place every year now -- 18,000 people a year, these are the, these are the actual official statistics, 18,000 people a year die in this country for no other reason other than the fact that they don't have a health insurance card. That's six 9/11s every single year.

ANDERSON COOPER: That was Michael Moore earlier on Larry King Live. His new movie, Sicko, opened nationwide today, and as you may have already heard, it is a scathing indictment of the U.S. health care system, starring American citizens and their medical horror stories. Moore, of course, is known for his controversial style of filmmaking. Some have questioned the facts in his films. So tonight, we thought we'd ask CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta to do a fact check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, clip from Sicko: That's not on, right?

MOORE, clip from Sicko: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, clip from Sicko: Okay.

Dr. SANJAY GUPTA: Sicko throws some hard punches at the United States health care system, and it seems just about everyone has something to say.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's played fast and loose with the facts.

MARK MEANEY, National Institute for Patients Rights: Michael Moore was spot on.

MOORE: The facts, I think, support what I believe.

GUPTA: And Moore presents a lot of facts throughout the movie. But do they all check out? "Keeping Them Honest," we did some digging, and we started with the biggy. The United States slipped to number 37 in the world's health care systems. It's true. Thirty-seven is the ranking, according to the World Health Organization's latest data on 191 countries. It's based on general health level, patient satisfaction, access and how it's paid for. France tops the list. Italy and Spain make it into the top 10. The United Kingdom is 18.

MOORE, from Sicko, in a boat: Hello?

GUPTA: Moore brings a group of patients, including 9/11 workers, to Cuba and marvels at their free treatment and quality of care. But hold on. That WHO list puts Cuba's health care system even lower than the United States, coming in at number 39. Moore asserts that the American health care system spends $7,000 per person on health, whereas Cuba spends $25 per person. Not true, but not too far off. The United States spends $6,096 a year per person, versus $229 a year in Cuba. And astronomically more money doesn't mean far better outcomes. In fact, Americans live just a little bit longer than Cubans, on average.

So Americans do pay more, but the United States also ranks highest in patient satisfaction. And Americans have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when seeking non-emergency elective procedures like hip replacement, cataract surgery or knee repair. That's not something you'll see in Sicko, as Americans tell their tales of lack of coverage and suffocating red tape. It's true that the United States is the only country in the western world without free universal access to health care. But you won't find medical utopia elsewhere.

The film is filled with content Canadians and Brits sitting in waiting rooms, confident care will come. But in Canada, you can be waiting for a long time. A survey of six industrialized nations found that only Canada was worse than the United States when it came to waiting for a doctor's appointment for a medical problem.

PAUL KECKLEY, Deloitte Health Care Analyst: That's the reality of those systems. There are quotas. There are planned wait times. The concept that care is free in France and Canada and Cuba, and it's not. Those citizens pay for health services out of taxes. And as a proportion of their household income, it's a significant number.

GUPTA: It's true that the French pay higher taxes, and so does nearly every country ahead of the United States on that list. But even higher taxes don't give all the coverage everyone wants.

KECKLEY: Fifteen to 20 percent of the population will purchase services outside the system of care run by the government.

GUPTA: So there's no perfect system anywhere. But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts, there's one everyone agrees on. The system here should be far better.

COOPER: Far better indeed. It's numbers like these, released just days ago by the Centers for Disease Control, that are fueling calls for change. Nearly 44 million Americans, almost 15 percent of us, did not have health insurance in 2006. The percentage varied widely by state, from nearly 8 percent in Michigan, Michael Moore's home state, to nearly 24 percent in Texas, President Bush's home state.

Moore's solution, as you just heard, is to give all Americans free universal coverage. He paints insurance companies as the villains. As you might imagine, they see it far differently. Joining me now is Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans. Karen, thanks very much for being with us.

KAREN IGNAGNI, America's Health Insurance Plans: My pleasure.

COOPER: I want to play a clip from the film Sicko. Let's take a look.

MOORE: Laura Burnham was in a 45-mile-an-hour head-on collision that knocked her out cold. Paramedics got her out of the car and into an ambulance for a trip to the hospital.

LAURA BURNHAM: I get a bill from my insurance company telling me that the ambulance ride was not going to be paid for because it wasn't pre-approved. I don't know exactly when I was supposed to pre-approve it, you know? Like after I gained consciousness in the car, before I got in the ambulance, or I should have grabbed my cell phone off of the street and called while I was in the ambulance. I mean, it was just crazy.

COOPER: You represent insurance companies. How do you explain a situation like that?

IGNAGNI: I think, Anderson, there are only two possible explanations. One, straightforwardly, it was a mistake. Two, this was an auto accident. I've been in an auto accident, and I know my health insurer was the second payer, not the first. So in this case, maybe the health insurer actually was saying that it was the auto insurer's responsibility. But I think the point of this movie is that Michael Moore is right, and I watched the interview on Larry King, that it's time for our nation to confront the fact that we have 46 million people without health insurance. He's right about that. He's not right about the prescription, but he's right about what the need to move forward is.

COOPER: Let's listen to some of what he said to Larry earlier tonight.

MOORE, from the June 29 Larry King Live: The insurance company is the one deciding whether or not the doctor can perform a procedure or a treatment on a patient. I mean, just think about that. You go to see a doctor, the doctor says, I think you need this particular operation. But the doctor just can't order the operation or send you to a specialist. He has to call someone sitting in a cubicle, maybe 1,000 miles away, who can then give permission. And as you see in my film, the doctors who work at the insurance companies, they get bonuses for denying the most number of claims.

COOPER: Over the past 10 years, Karen, health care premiums have grown at four times the rate of wages and inflation, and insurance company profits have nearly tripled. You know, let's be honest. Insurance companies are for-profit businesses, and the way they maximize profits is by minimizing payments. Isn't that correct?

IGNAGNI: I saw that clip, and, in fact, there's another side to this story, which the point has been made by Larry King and others, that Mr. Moore never endeavored to see the other side of the story. First, Anderson, these are tragic cases. Anyone with, any human would say that. But now I think it's important, if we're going to be moving toward a solution, to find out is this a situation where there was a mistake? Is it a situation where the health plan, in fact, was interpreting the contract the employer purchased? Which is the case in the case that you just asked me about. Or is it an experimental process or procedure that employers simply don't cover? It's important to get the answers to those questions because it will guide how we proceed with health care reform.

COOPER: But, you know, just about everybody listening to this who's dealt with insurance companies on medical issues is not going to really buy that, you know, these mistakes happen or, I mean, we have seen plenty of cases. There's people interviewed in this film. We've seen testimony on Capitol Hill. There have been peer-reviewed journals. You know, I mean, insurance companies have people whose job is to retroactively look at big claims that have been paid out for any evidence that there might be some preexisting condition so they can, you know, deny the claim. Again, the bottom line is profit for these companies.

IGNAGNI: The case you're talking about is more than 15 years old, number one. We made some very different decisions 15 years ago than we make today. Our industry led the fight for independent external review because we wanted to give people a sense of peace of mind that, in fact, they could have another, a second opinion if they didn't agree with the decision. That's a very important difference.

COOPER: But it is, I mean, just so we're clear, you know, there are all these commercials from insurers about how, you know, they want to help people, and clearly, I'm sure there are good people who do want to help people. But again, the bottom line is profit and maximizing profit.

IGNAGNI: In every doctor's office, in every hospital, in every health plan, yes, it's true, in all of those situations. No margin, no mission. If you're not in the black, then you can't do your job. The individuals that we cover, 250 million of them, expect to have their health care coverage. We saw eight to 10 stories featured in the film, and, in fact, there was no attempt to get the other side of the story. And I know for a fact, because many of these cases are eight to 10 to 15 years old, there is another side of the story. In many of these cases featured in the film, it was simply a case where the health plan was interpreting, was this coverage purchased by the employer? Now, we can have a debate about whether employers purchase enough coverage. We can definitely talk about that. And what society's obligation ought to be. But that's a very different discussion. So if we're going to figure out where we go with the health insurance crisis in this country, the 46 million people who don't have coverage, we have to answer those questions very straightforwardly.

COOPER: We like to get all sides and let people represent themselves. Karen Ignagni, appreciate you representing your side.

—Brad Wilmouth is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.


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"The United States spe

"The United States spends $6,096 a year per person, versus $229 a year in Cuba.."

Well good grief, let's put it in perspective. If you make 10 cents an hour, $229 is a small fortune.

I guess that's why Americans are risking their lives trying to sneak into Cuba. This liberal mecca must be drawing immigrants from every country in the world. NOT.

On another note, has any other film in history gotten such a hyping from the MSM than "Sucko"? It reminds me of the publicity blitz the MSM gave to Air Amerika. But of course, they are not biased.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

If Michael Moore actually thi

If Michael Moore actually thinks he can create a universal health care system in the United States that will cost me and every other American $229 per year and take care of all of my needs without sacrificing quality, then good golly sign me up!

*Jots down note: "Do not to hold breath waiting for this to be shown as a viable possibility."

*****

"I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a clown that gives a damn!" - Sticky the Clown

Unspoken wrinkle

There is another variable that is never taken into account in cases like these. Cuba, like other nations, reports infant mortality differently than the US.

In the US, if the child ever took a breath outside the womb, that child is legally born alive. Even if the child dies minutes later, s/he is counted in the official books.

In Cuba, as I understand it, many hospitals do not 'count' a live birth unless the child leaves the hospital....even if months after the birth. Do you believe that severaly premature children are leaving the hospital at all?

So, in Cuba at least, a baby born that never leaves the hospital alive is like a base on balls, the at-bat doesn't count, so the death doesn't either.

I am sorry if this sounds callous, but it's the best analogy I could think of.

Health insurance companies ar

Health insurance companies are married to the doctors. And our money is the foundation of their marriage. They do not have our best interest in mind. They have whatever can turn over the bigger profit, in mind. I learned this the hard way.

With this said, I STILL say I would NEVER want government health care. My word, why would I want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire? A doctor can put you through hell on earth, nearly kill you, and the state will just slap the doctor on the hand. What do you think the state would do if the state owned the doctor -so to say?

Even with all that my ex-insurance company and my ex-doctor put me through, I would never ever want my government in my health care. I now know that our health care is like any other business in this world --we have to push and make them do what is right. The squeaky wheel gets oiled. And don't be afraid of being annoying. And don't be afraid to hop medical offices until you find a better doctor who has a heart.

First and far most, turn to God for your care. There is only one reason that I am still here, God Himself.

Debra...

I think your experience (an

I think your experience (and mine...) with medical insurance companies should tell us something's wrong, though, and unless the free market side provides what looks like a good solution, Michael Moore's going to get his way. Why can't there be doctors who aren't involved with bureaucracies like insurance companies and governments? It seems like increased regulations reward being big over being good, so what's needed is a young MD with a camera who is willing to tell the other side of this story. If he's telling the truth, big government and big insurance won't look too-good. Maybe health care is like food. When I'm looking for the best food I can get, I don't tend to frequent McDonald's...
JMR

sarcasmo, I believe that when

sarcasmo,

I believe that when the day comes that doctors can be brought up on criminal charges for negligence, like a reckless driver can be brought up on criminal charges, and the charges stick, then we will see things changing.

If we can make doctors just as accountable as anyone else whose negligence causes us great harm, we will see doctors change. The same should go for the insurance companies and it should be individuals who are found guilty.

Once people are brought up on criminal charges and the charges stick, we will see things change.

Debra...

Well, I have 2 responses.1.

Well, I have 2 responses.

1. Much of medicine is an art, and courts aren't too good at judging art. Doctors these days would be saddled with reputations on the 'net if they screwed-up, and that's a good motivator not to screw up IMO.

2. It seems to me doctors have quite enough to fear from teeming lawyers and big government these days.
JMR

sarcasmo, apparently more is

sarcasmo, apparently more is needed.   ...djms

More what?

More what? More lawyers threatening their livelihoods? More of my taxes wasted on a failed drugwar threatening not only their livelihoods but their patients' chances of competent pain treatment?? Medicine will NEVER have 100% perfect outcomes, that's why it's an art as much as it's a science. I'm surprised to see someone who is ostensibly conservative arguing for even more lawyers in a country where it's really hard to be an OBGYN due to lawyers and insurance, because everyone thinks their baby should be perfect despite nature. Just curious, but does anyone here know any kid/young-person who wants to be a doctor? I sure don't anymore....
JMR

Gupta did not show much skept

Gupta did not show much skepticism in reporting that life expectancies in Cuba are about equal to those in America despite being outspent by American 26 to 1 in health care

Okay ... then let's apply the lib***ls favorite logical fallacy which they always use in their idiotic ramblings

That would be 'post hoc, ergo procter hoc' Which means: "therefore, because of this"

So...

A.  America spends 26 times the amount per person on healthcare than they do in Cuba.

B. Life expectancy in Cuba is about the same as in the US..

C. Therefore America could safely reduce its healthcare spending to Cuban levels and still keep the same life expectency!

Well, that's logical right?

Or maybe, just maybe, the alleged Cuban life expecency is a Crocko?

A statement I make because I'm so sure that the stats put out by commie dictators are always so accurate.

Like how the USSR was a beacon of properity as reported by the NY Slimes Duranty while millions were being starved to death.

Yea... if you can't trust a commie dictator to be truthful, who can ya trust?

You've seen the spoof. Now see the spoof of the spoof on YouTube: The Clintpranos: Bada Bong

health analyst Paul Keckley

health analyst Paul Keckley informed viewers that "15 to 20 percent of
the population will purchase services outside the system run by the
government."

Under Madame Hillary, that will be illegal. Her 1993 plan involved hefty fines for both doctors and patients who operated outside the government system. The utopian socialist system: equality means equal misery for everyone.

I think it should be easier

I think it should be easier these days to both be an independent inventor and to be an independent doctor. Imagine doctors who set out on their own, didn't take insurance or government money, and -- while cheap -- made you sign something saying you're not going to sue them under the jackpot-lottery legal system for practicing medicine. I'd be thrilled to see such doctors, complete with old-fashioned black bags.
JMR

I think this is what most &qu

I think this is what most "Free Market" types are talking about. Using tax deductions and health savings account for people to pay for their own healthcare plans without going through their employer... making health insurance companies compete like auto insurance companies compete... now if they would get rid of payroll taxes so that working people could keep their full paycheck the free market idea would not only work, but would likely be wildly popular...

Check out my blog at: http://preacherskid.blogdrive.com/

That's one option, but I'm

That's one option, but I'm really talking about removing the middleman (well, some of them) entirely. Lawyers today can be part of a big law firm, or they can still go out on their own and practice law. It would be nice if doctors had the same choice, but gradually that's been eroded, and during that gradual erosion we've seen an erosion in the level of care (no housecalls, lots of bureaucracy, etc.). And yes, it's a separate subject, but I'd love to be rid of the payroll tax, or at least make people pay taxes explicitly so they'd see what's happening to their money...
JMR

The lawyer parallel you make

The lawyer parallel you make is an interesting idea... it would make sense that doctors should be allowed to charge whatever they want as lawyers charge whatever fee they want for their services... I remember my dad talking about going to the doctors office when he was younger and never pulling out an insurance card, just paying the doctor in cash for the visit... that would be much simpler seems to me and you could still use health savings accounts in rwlation to that... one thing is they have to make those accounts more flexible and allow them to rollover too...

Check out my blog at: http://preacherskid.blogdrive.com/

Sicko

One thing I believe would help with healthcare costs in this country is if there was someway to regulate ambulance chasers like John Edwards. A few years ago a small hospital near here which primarily focused on births had to close because they could not afford the malpractice insurance thanks to the likes of John Edwards and other shysters.

I have insurance through my job and it's still not cheap. But it pays pretty good. And like any other company it needs to make a profit to survive. I noticed Anderson kept coming back to profit. Is he saying that taking the profit out of healthcare would make it better? Why would my company offer any better coverage than any other if all profits were removed and every company received the same? We went with this company because we believed their coverage was better and the rates reasonable and we've been with this company for over 20 years. It's called competition and the free market. And even for the fees my insurance does not pay, we've always been able to make arrangements with the providers to pay off the amount by monthly payments. So far nobody's hauled us off to jail yet.

As for those who absolutely cannot afford insurance, I guess if the government wants to pick up the tab that's one thing. Dont we have welfare and Medicaid now? But I do not believe that government financed (controlled) health care is the answer. Look at the problems with the fence along the border. Look at everything the federal government tries to do and turns into another buraucratic monstrosity. Heck, this government cant even seem to fight a war to win.

And healthcare in France, Canada, and Britain is not free - somebody pays.

Once again, a news program ha

Once again, a news program has shown the clip from Moore's film that rolls down the WHO ranking list of health care, and there's the US at #37, and there's Cuba --- the country Moore praises for universal health care --- ranked #39.

But no one points that out.

Galvanic: Yeah, but in Cuba i

Galvanic: Yeah, but in Cuba it's FREE, man!

FREE I tell ya!

Plus it's a ranking that's ba

Plus it's a ranking that's based in part on customer satisfaction. So to some degree, the results are going to reflect expectations, not actual service.

If Patient A in a less developed nation is accustomed to waiting two days for service and suddenly it takes one day, he's going to be thrilled. If Patient B in America used to waiting 10 minutes for service and it takes 30 minutes, he's more inclined to be angry when the WHO calls up and askes him to take their little survey. But is Patient A actually getting better service?

"The Who"... heh heh. Won't get fooled again!

*****

"I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a clown that gives a damn!" - Sticky the Clown