You can expect to hear a lot about this in the coming days: a New York Times/CBS News/MTV poll (h/t Britain and America) seems to indicate that the younger generation favors more liberal policies than conservative ones. Among its findings:
*More than half plan to vote for a Democrat for president in 2008
*44% believe same-sex couples should be allowed to marry
*62% support a universal, government-sponsored health care plan
*51% said the U.S. was very or somewhat likely to succeed in Iraq
If the respondents get most of their news from the media outlets that sponsored the poll, then perhaps most of these results are not so surprising.
One poll respondent's view:
“I think the Democratic Party is now realizing how big an impact my generation has, and they’re trying to cater to that in some way,” Ashley Robinson, 21, a Democrat from Minnesota, said in an interview after she participated in the poll. “But the traditional Republican Party is still trying to get older votes, which doesn’t make sense because there are so many more voters my age. It would be sensible to cater to us.”
There were no quotes from Republicans in the article; the above quote was the only one featured.
Food for thought: A prominent Democrat who once said, "My fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you -- ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy.
Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton received the lion's share of attention by those polled, and the two campaigns may want to take note:
More important, though, at least for Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama is the impression this group has of them. In the poll, 43 percent of respondents said they held an unfavorable view of Mrs. Clinton, a number that reflects the tide of resistance she faces nationwide. By contrast, only 19 percent said they had an unfavorable view of Mr. Obama.
Comments Policy
lib poll
June 27, 2007 - 09:38 ET by bulbasaurThe youngsters are repeating the "beliefs" they hear in pop-culture.
This poll can't erase the fact that there is an enemy that wants to annihilate western civilization. When that enemy shows its face again on our soil, which it will, the youngsters will snap back to reality.
This fact causes the democrat party deep distress. It's why they are acting so mental.
NYT Poll: Young Americans Lean Left
June 27, 2007 - 10:29 ET by PamI'm 43 and the results of this poll are not news to me or anyone older than me...This is a common trend with the voters under the age of 30. Most of the people polled are not establised, nor do they have a financial stake in much...When they purchase homes, build other assets, the attitude generally changes...will some stay Democrats, sure, but not radicals..the radicals are from 2 exteremes..those with money to burn and those with nothing....
I'm sorry, but young American
June 27, 2007 - 09:55 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveI'm sorry, but young Americans are are too young, naïve, and ignorant. They lean left because they haven't learned to distinguish the difference or separate their thoughts from their feelings. In fact, they are being conditioned in public schools and universities to make all their decisions based on feelings rather than rational thought.
Fortunately, many of these same young Americans find themselves too busy to make it to the polls on election days.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
Virulent
June 27, 2007 - 10:01 ET by allanfThe old quote (often attributed to Churchill - perhaps wrongly goes) "If you're not Liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not Conservative when you're 35, you have no brain."
Youngsters grow up taught by people whose salary comes from taxpayer money. It is easy for a youngster believe in all sorts of great social programs paid for with other peoples money.
Things begin to change when children grow up and want to use their money to support their own family.
I hate that quote, I do to
June 27, 2007 - 10:34 ET by AtheistRepublicanI hate that quote, I do to have a heart, how else would my blood be pumping! See, I am alive am I not?
allanf--churchill's quote---
June 27, 2007 - 10:35 ET by misterbillallanf--churchill's quote---I am 74--until I was 28 years old--I was a registered Democrat--my whole family were Democrats--I was also a liberal--they do not have to go together as one entity. I switched at 28 because of my own life observations and my feelings that the issues that got most Democrats elected, (where I lived), dealt with giveaway programs. I wanted smaller government and to let the market guide more actions in the country. I also failed to understand the fawning adulation heaped upon the Kennedy family by most of my friends and associates. The Kennedy spoils system is the largest and worst of any. A key incident was when a group of women (Mothers Against Welfare), who, in spite of the name of the group were all welfare recipients, picketed government offices . Their issue at that particular time was the clothing allowance for their children that they received. The amount they received was almost double what I could allow from my annual budget for my children . I held a job that paid well. I had , at the time, four children. I began to dig in earnest into the various programs managed by County, State and Federal programs. I became completely disenchanted with the way things were being run. So, I changed parties in the hope that I would get smaller government.
I am sorry to say that in the past 2-3 years, I am seeing the same nonsense from the Republican party. I am a member only because I expect them to be more conservative than the Democrats. I can no longer tell the difference between parties as far as large government spending. Also earmarks are , to me, no different than extra generous welfare, in the sense that it is money taken from working people to be given to others.
(BTW Think big dig in Boston $14.6Billion).
I am still very conservative--I just do not see a Conservative party in America anymore.
Mr. Bill...It does seem to le
June 27, 2007 - 10:45 ET by Clear thinkerMr. Bill...
It does seem to leave us with voting for the lesser of two evils.
I for one could not vote Dem because I know they want to force a Socialist system on us.
I also will not vote for Independents because I don't want to waste my vote.
So, all this forces me to vote Republican because they do come the closest to my conservative values. I'm just glad that we may have Fred to vote for because none of the other GOP contenders have the mix that I'm looking for. Fred will be a breath of fresh air, and maybe he can help other Repubs find their souls again.
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
CT--you have nailed it--
June 27, 2007 - 10:58 ET by misterbillCT--you have nailed it--I sent an email yesterday to DA King (prez of Dusty Inman Society). I was telling him thatI I felt totally betrayed by Bush. I felt like quitting the Repub party and I had just (yesterday) gotten a letter from the NRC that I am one of 500 Georgians to be recognized as "25th Anniversary Presidential Honorees" by the Republican Presidential Task Force. I am not going to respond. Part of the reason is that in the body of the letter, they get into "land of opportunity", "creating hope and promise", etc. I see all of that as endorsing Bush's immigration reform and the NAU.
I told DA, in my email, that if I quit I would not be able to help rid the party of the RINOs who, like Bush, are trying to give my country away. I will stick it out and the RNC can stick their honoree recognition up some illegal entrants Z-visa.
*More than half plan to vote
June 27, 2007 - 10:01 ET by drillanwr*More than half plan to vote for a Democrat for president in 2008
and how many can name the current President, VP, and prominent members of the administration and the Congress? How many can name 1-2 Supreme Court Justices?
*44% believe same-sex couples should be allowed to marry
How many actually know and understand the definition and real concept of marriage?
*62% support a universal, government-sponsored health care plan
How many will be adding tax dollars to that social program that is currently collapsing in countries such as Canada, Great Briton, and France? And do they understand the concept of a long wait to see a doctor or for surgery?
*51% said the U.S. was very or somewhat likely to succeed in Iraq
Well, that's encouraging. I believe that number is greater than the percentage of the Congress who believe it.
I think they accidentally lef
June 27, 2007 - 10:12 ET by sunandsteelI think they accidentally left that Iraq success percentage in there by accident, because, as any good lefty knows, we are in a war we cant win, we are evil, blah blah blah.
Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)
I like the quote about "
June 27, 2007 - 10:09 ET by sunandsteelI like the quote about "it would make sense to cater to us." If the Republicans did, it would be called indoctrination, if they dont, it is because they dont care.
I get tired of the attitude of a lot of the younger generation that something is owed them or they should be catered to. Failings of upbringing and education I suppose, no emphasis is put on responsibility any more. I deal with kids (12 to 18 yrs) in a church group, and it kills me the attitude some of these kids have. For example, we go on a big trip to Florida every other year. We are a small church with not a whole lot of extra money, so we do fundraisers to make it up. But the prevalent attitude is "I dont have to do that, somebody else will take care of it." So being a leader, I have to tell these kids that if they dont do the fundraisers, they cant go. "Thats not fair" they say, and I get several angry parents calling me demanding that their kid get to go even though they didnt follow the rules. I dont give in and let them go, so now the parents all hate me, but so what.
I remember being high school age and sort of thinking that more should be done along those lines. Then I got out and into the world and realized that the things libs promise have no chance of succeeding or actually making someones life better.
Maybe this was off topic, but to me it all fits together.
Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)
Considering Social Security
June 27, 2007 - 10:12 ET by sarcasmoConsidering Social Security's effects, I've found the "I'm owed something" attitude in generations beyond the young... Lots of it.
JMR
True, I just deal with kids m
June 27, 2007 - 10:18 ET by sunandsteelTrue, I just deal with kids more than older folks. Its really just the whole "I am owed something, gimme gimme" attitude that pisses me off. If you want something, then get off your butt and work for it, or get off your butt and learn in, or get off your butt and accomplish it. Handouts never did anything but make leeches from people.
Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)
I really wish more people m
June 27, 2007 - 10:16 ET by AJSHOPEI really wish more people my age (I'm 24) would actually think. It's always the same crap. I hate discussing anything political or "spiritual" (aka Christian bashing) with anyone my age (unless it's in church).
And they're just as combative as the rest of the liberals. I usually don't even try discussing politics with anyone my age, but they usually bring it up and say stuff like "you don't like Bush do you?" or they mention something else stupid and completely uneducated.
It's no wonder there's a stereo-type that people my age are uneducated and naive.
Seems to me that if you are o
June 27, 2007 - 10:23 ET by sunandsteelSeems to me that if you are of a certian age, you are expected to belive in certian things else there is something wrong with you. It was the same when I was around that age. Somehow I was hate-filled if I didnt accept certian lifestyles and certian actions wholeheartedly.
Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)
AJSHope...have some hope. O
June 27, 2007 - 10:31 ET by vrwc13AJSHope...have some hope. One of the NB posters uses this tagline:
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."-Winston Churchill
Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore
Update on Churchill: (ain't G
June 27, 2007 - 10:43 ET by vrwc13Update on Churchill: (ain't Google great!)
This quotation is frequently but mistakenly attributed to Churchill.
It is anyway unlikely that Churchill would subscribe to this
philosophy: He was a swashbuckling soldier at 20, and a Conservative
member of Parliament at 25. A couple of years later he switched to the
Liberal Party (which was not liberal in the modern sense), and later
went back to the Conservatives.
The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a
republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is
proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges
Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I'm a "classical"
June 27, 2007 - 10:50 ET by sarcasmoI'm a "classical" liberal who's not liberal in the modern sense, either. The word was attacked in this country by NewSpeakians, before I was even born and had any chance of defending it. Oh well. At least I saved the word "escrow" from big government's clutches in the '90s.
JMR
Sarc, a word's meaning can c
June 27, 2007 - 11:00 ET by vrwc13Sarc, a word's meaning can change a lot over time... think of a few such as "gay", "intercourse", and speaking of intercourse, the word "Congress" has been used to mean just that!
Such as clinton could have said "I did not have congress with that woman!"
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I agree, but the NewSpeakia
June 27, 2007 - 11:10 ET by sarcasmoI agree, but the NewSpeakians already had a better and more descriptive word or 2 for what they disliked (English is nothing if not plentiful). "Socialist" and "Leftist." Both would have accurately conveyed the epithet better than changing a perfectly-innocent word. I dunno. Other people feel the same way about "gay," and nothing ever happens, so I guess I need to just learn to accept it.
JMR
The indoctrination of young
June 27, 2007 - 10:21 ET by jiminjerseyThe indoctrination of young Americans to accept the SP agenda begins in our school systems. As they prgoress the pace of the indoctrination picks up and is reinforced by the media and pop culture. They are taught that the liberal causes are just and given supporting "facts".
Gotta cut this short. Demint is speaking.
It's scary to think
June 27, 2007 - 10:25 ET by exLibIt's scary to think the kind of world we would live in if all the kids of today voted.
This country would be done in 8 years. Of course, Dems want to lower the voting age to 16 since the Public School System is indoctrinating Kids so that by the time they graduate they completely re-educated.
It scares me to think the Public School system will have my kids more hours in a day then I will.
Also, I work at a college that is Anti-Christian and anti-Conservative anything. And yet they claim to be open......
But the traditional Republica
June 27, 2007 - 10:41 ET by Darth DutchBut the traditional Republican Party is still trying to get older votes, which doesn’t make sense because there are so many more voters my age. It would be sensible to cater to us.”
The only problem with that is that, by and large, young people do not vote. Look what we saw with the 2004 Presidential election. MTV and other pop culture icons told young people to get out and vote (they claimed to just want to encourage people to vote, but we all know they wanted them to vote for the Democratic ticket). Look what happened - there was hardly any difference in the young voter turnout then than from 2000. The older generations of voters are the ones that pay attention to the issues, contribute money to campaigns, and actually turn out to vote.
Dutch
Thanks Boomers! You guys real
June 27, 2007 - 10:51 ET by NortonalecThanks Boomers! You guys really "changed the world". The same people that bucked the system in the 60's now have their hands out for every entitlement that they can get. I am 41 (just missed being a Boomer by 2 years) and will be stuck with a bloated government and no Social Security.
Nortonalec
Don't blame all the boomers
June 27, 2007 - 10:57 ET by MightyMouthDon't blame all the boomers for your dilemma norton. I am 52 and still working hard towards retirement. (something I suggest you do too). I am NOT counting on SS to save my ass if I make it that long. Blame your bloated government on liberal boomers and RINOS. And never believe the SS lie, I didn't.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I believe that Congress is so
June 27, 2007 - 11:08 ET by vrwc13I believe that Congress is so happy with the Social Security program they created that they themselves are NOT in the program but have one of their very own...maybe if they had to donate their pensions to SS and join it, they might fix it!
MM you young pup, you and I might have gone to different High Schools together! : )....
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
"MM you young pup, you
June 27, 2007 - 11:20 ET by MightyMouth"MM you young pup, you and I might have gone to different High Schools together! : )...."
lol, Truman High School, Taylor Michigan, class of 1974.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Glenbrook South, Glenview Ill
June 27, 2007 - 12:28 ET by vrwc13Glenbrook South, Glenview Illnois, class of 1970. Sooo I am just a bit older, eh? Both good old midwesterner, meat and potato grown boys.
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I don't have a "delimma" MM,
June 27, 2007 - 11:09 ET by NortonalecI don't have a "delimma" MM, and I am not counting on SS either. My point was/is that the 60's boomers and Libs have had control of the government since the 40's. FDR started the whole thing, and the Boomers were more than happy to continue and grow entitlements. The Greatest Generation (Boomer's parents) worked hard, raised their families and did not expect anything that they could not provide themselves. Their kids turned out to be a bunch of self-absorbed, spoiled brats who thought they were different, and the rules did not apply to them.
Nortonalec
MMMMmmm! Dave Ramsey!I'm ag
June 27, 2007 - 14:10 ET by ErgoDyneMMMMmmm! Dave Ramsey!
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
MMMMmmm! Dave Ramsey!I'm ag
June 27, 2007 - 14:10 ET by ErgoDyneOops! Double. =)
Typical of these Minds full of Mush!
June 27, 2007 - 10:51 ET by OiznopOnce these "young people" grow up, stop watching MTV, start having children of their own and start seeing how much money is taken out of their paychecks by their all caring Government for programs (that hopefully never happen) like "universal health care" a.k.a Socialized Medicine, then I think they will wise up and change their ways. After all, it was the MTV generation that got Bill Clinton elected. Let's hope the same does NOT hold true for Hitlery!
Oiz
I remember the 92 elections a
June 27, 2007 - 11:06 ET by sunandsteelI remember the 92 elections and the MTV "Rock the Vote" nonsense being a seemingly never ending rock-star endorsement for Clinton. Except for Dave Mustaine of Megadeth who seemed to lean a little more to the right than most of the other ones. Who do you think was never allowed to be a RTV spokesman again?
Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)
Still waiting for the draft MTV PRomised
June 27, 2007 - 11:36 ET by exLibYeah, just before th 2004 election MTV and Rock The Vote had a relentless campaigh that sought to frighten young voters into voting Dem promising that a vote for Bush was a vote for them to be drafted.
...and lo and behold, the Dem
June 27, 2007 - 11:40 ET by Mean Gene Dr. Love...and lo and behold, the Democrats are the ones that push for instituting the draft. Looks like those kids got hoodwinked!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
These young minds have alre
June 27, 2007 - 12:15 ET by kgThese young minds have already spent many years being preached to by
liberals in the school system. Of course they lean left. But fear not. As time
goes by and they are members of the real world their attitudes will change into
more realistic ideals. When they have a family their ideals will change even
more. They realize and accept responsibility for the life of their young ones.
By then they have a better sense of right and wrong. Conservatism comes with
wisdom and life experiences just as it has for millenniums.
On the other hand, there are those who never seem to learn. They go through
through life in a bubble of gullibility. They become one of the babble crowd.
One had to wonder in awe if they really believe the babble coming out of their
mouths. The liberal mind set is proof that some people's thought process is not
quite up to human standards. Has anyone noticed that the majority of this group is Democrat???
I'm actually surprised that t
June 27, 2007 - 13:26 ET by HypocriteHaterI'm actually surprised that the results of these polls weren't MORE liberal. There are still 56% of the younger generation that don't believe (or possibly have no opinion yet) that gays should marry, and 51% (a slim majority, but a majority none the less) believe the US can succeed in Iraq. The response to the universal healthcare question doesn't surprise me much since people at that age mostly don't concern themselves with health coverage. Once they get older and start needing medical attention and start understanding what universal healthcare REALLY means, I believe they will change their tune very quickly.
With all the liberal indoctrination going on in public schools and universities, these polls results should have been much more liberal.
That's a good point, but it s
June 27, 2007 - 13:38 ET by mattmThat's a good point, but it still could be much better. Which is why I think the GOP needs to do a better PR job - but this is almost impossible when we have Rino's who push things like amnesty, and give up on things like school vouchers, and reformulating college funding methods, and SS reform and so on, the minute some Leftist tosses an insult at them.
If they'd stick to the platform, people might believe that the GOP politicians actually care about the platform. And if they appear to not care about it, why would they expect the general public to give it any credence?
this isn't news
June 27, 2007 - 15:38 ET by pgrossjrSo what? I was liberal coming out of college. wait until they get a job, have kids, etc. Young unmarried woman are pro-abortion. Married women with children are pro-life. I think it was Churchchill who said "a young man who is not a liberal doesn't have a heart, an old man who is not a conservative doesn't have a brain.
Update on Churchill: (ain't G
June 27, 2007 - 16:08 ET by vrwc13Update on Churchill: (ain't Google great!)
This quotation is frequently but mistakenly attributed to Churchill.
It is anyway unlikely that Churchill would subscribe to this
philosophy: He was a swashbuckling soldier at 20, and a Conservative
member of Parliament at 25. A couple of years later he switched to the
Liberal Party (which was not liberal in the modern sense), and later
went back to the Conservatives.
The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a
republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is
proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges
Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
Well, call me heartless. I'
June 27, 2007 - 16:20 ET by ErgoDyneWell, call me heartless. I've never been liberal (I'm only 25) and I'll never be liberal. Well, unless I have a lobotomy (Great one, Sharon! I think that's one of my favorites now).
A lot of unmarried, young women are pro-life. I can't quote any numbers, but a good number of them are pro-life.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
folks:don't sweat the junior
June 27, 2007 - 18:29 ET by PKfolks:
don't sweat the junior idiot brigade.
every election cycle we hear this ultra liberal bs about how they are going to change things and that the old farts are out of date, yatada, yatada, yatada.
yes this bunch has all kinds of ideas etc. but when they get out of college and get into the business of holding a job, raising kids, fighting off inlaws either attitudes change or they don't have time for politics.
one of the best examples was the McGovern campaign for president of the united states.
his administration was known for having colege age volunteers in the white house.
or was that the carter mess?
C
If you're 20 years old and
June 27, 2007 - 20:13 ET by GregEIf you're 20 years old and conservative, you don't have a heart. If you're 40 years old and liberal, you don't have a brain.
Gosh, never heard that one be
June 27, 2007 - 20:19 ET by balboaGosh, never heard that one before. Did you hear there's no 'I' in 'team,' either?
If you're 40 years old and li
June 27, 2007 - 22:20 ET byIf you're 40 years old and liberal, you don't have a brain
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Hey bot I say with a real bi
June 27, 2007 - 22:29 ET by bigtimerHey bot I say with a real big smile...that was enjoyable....
....ahhhh...the memories...
Thanks.
Perfect link for your point too.
We all know this very well,
June 27, 2007 - 20:19 ET by GregEWe all know this very well, and liberals love it. I personally think the voting age should be NO younger than 21.
Remember too, that in California in 2004, two CA state senators wanted to enact a new law allowing 14 year olds to vote. Yes, you heard correctly. A 14 year old's vote would count as 1/4 vote. A 16 year olds vote would count as 1/2 vote.
http://www.foxnews.c...
Now, do you think the moron liberals who concocted this nonsense (which didn't pass) knew exactly what they were doing? Of course. Liberals would let 5 year olds vote if they could get it passed. The younger the vote, the more likely the voter will cast their vote for the person who is going to hand out the most stuff for "free."
Attention all leftist and trollsters
June 27, 2007 - 22:08 ET by bigtimerSpeaking of polls.... here is a new one that ought to make the loony-bin leftists happy as heck...
It does me!
ROFL.....
our future
June 28, 2007 - 06:19 ET by kiwikitis filled with the morons produced by the public, anti-Capitalistic, leftist schools so I'd expect them to be unable to think rationally; no wonder at all this results in Democrats.
They spend 20 hours / day being propagandized by the liberal ladies of the loony educrat system and the loony idiots on the boob tubes. That this results in their being boobs is totally rational. I'm appalled when I hear any of them speak, they can't enunciate, speak gramatically, or think.
There's a solution...JMR
June 28, 2007 - 06:22 ET by sarcasmoThere's a solution...
JMR
Sarc, thanks for the link.
June 28, 2007 - 08:31 ET by vrwc13Sarc, thanks for the link. We are already onboard and have been since 1995 when we heard of such things as:
I will pass this one to all those who have made the move and those who are considering it. Thanks.
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I think it was either 1992
June 28, 2007 - 08:39 ET by sarcasmoI think it was either 1992 or 1993 when I signed the pledge because I was lucky enough to meet the founder, and speaking of powerful Christians who are perpetually ignored by the hypocrite-worshipping news media, Marshall Fritz is a true giant in many more ways than physically...
JMR
Sarc, thanks again. I remem
June 28, 2007 - 09:01 ET by vrwc13Sarc, thanks again. I remember hearing a story (will try to "google" it to confirm) about Wisconsin school system starting a charter school program to supplement its shortage of schools. The deal was that the state would pay the equivalent amount per student to the charter school that the state spent. Part of the deal was that after expenses and a fair profit, the charter school had to refund any extra. The charter schools ended up with better scholastic results and gave money back to the state!
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
The thing about charter sch
June 28, 2007 - 09:07 ET by sarcasmoThe thing about charter schools, for me and people like me anyway, is that the state's still involved, and that leaves a potential for future evil. The reason the charter schools often seem so-good to a lot of well meaning people is that the socialist school system's just so-bad and that's the competition. Ultimately I like a totally private system, and therefore I'm somewhat dubious about letting the good (charter schools) become the enemy of the great (no government involvement whatsoever). It's a tough political/strategic question when things are close to 50/50%, I'll admit.
JMR
school options
June 28, 2007 - 10:03 ET by vrwc13Agreed. Did you know some of the first university's in the U.S. (i.e. Harvard) were originally Christain? btw their motto is "Truth". We have come a long way.
For us (six children):
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
I've said it before and I'll
June 28, 2007 - 10:06 ET by LeonI've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want your children to be weird, homeschool them.
I went to a public high school (one of the best on the east coast according to several reports) and my education was far superior to any homeschooler I ever met and WAY superior to any private school kid I ever met. I was much more prepared than either of those two groups when I got to college.
EUONYM!!!
June 28, 2007 - 10:09 ET by balboaEUONYM!!!
Bal,Euonym Video
June 28, 2007 - 10:14 ET by LeonBal,
Euonym Video
aka the dangers of homeschool
June 28, 2007 - 10:16 ET by Leonaka the dangers of homeschooling.
So home schooling kicks the a
June 28, 2007 - 10:18 ET by TruthMongerSo home schooling kicks the ass out of public indoctrination? Thought so - thanks for the confirmation guys!
No Homeschooling makes kids w
June 28, 2007 - 10:20 ET by LeonNo Homeschooling makes kids weird, socially awkward, and not diverse in their education. Simple and plain.
I consider home schooling to be a form of abuse similar to that of Christian Scientists not allowing their children to get medical treatment.
"Simple and plain"
June 28, 2007 - 10:22 ET by sarcasmo"Simple and plain" has become NewSpeak for "I have 0 proof for my assertion"??
JMR
"Simple and plain"
June 28, 2007 - 10:38 ET by vrwc13"Simple and plain" Leon, you and your "superior" education got that one wrong. It's "plain and simple" unless of course you are trying to coin a new phrase!
Let me quess, your superior education included learning to read by "whole language" not phonics? Figures.
"simple and plain" - Leon (see better quote below):
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. -Winston Churchill.
Hmmm Vrwc,I didn't realize th
June 28, 2007 - 10:42 ET by LeonHmmm Vrwc,
I didn't realize those words had to be in a specific order. Strange.
Great post. Very informative.
Why does it have to be plain and simple? Does the way I wrote it have a different meaning? It doesn't seem that order affects meaning in this situation. And what does phonics have to do with anything? Please indulge me.
Hmmm Vrwc,I didn't realize th
June 28, 2007 - 10:43 ET by Leondouble
Broad brush again. Homeschool
June 28, 2007 - 12:08 ET by Hero SquadBroad brush again. Homeschooling in the hands of an incompetent person can be very damaging. I have seen that happen.
Homeschooling in the hands of a dedicated parent who understands the educational needs of their child can be hugely successful. They can teach their children year round, focus their attention on their child's deficiencies and strengths (not those of the majority of the students in a class.)
Socially, there are homeschool groups (in our area there are, at least), that provides the kids with social interaction and programs that require more than one or two students. Most of the homeschool kids I've met have been respectful, thoughtful and socially confident.
To say that homeschooling is the equivalent of not seeking medical attention for your children is a horribly unfair characterization of homeschooling.
*****
"I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a clown that gives a damn!" - Sticky the Clown
Leon, BS baby
June 28, 2007 - 12:13 ET by dagdaLeon,
Support this with data! You are so full of s*** your eyes are brown!
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
I don't get it.I really think
June 28, 2007 - 10:19 ET by dmntd1I don't get it.
I really think that questioning others' masculinity is a game probably better left to people who haven't had more cock in and out of them than a Tyson Chicken regional distribution center. AceOfSpades 06162007
Not true Leon. I know several
June 28, 2007 - 10:20 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveNot true Leon. I know several people (even neices and nephews) that were homeschooled. Almost all of them are well adjusted, socially active, and outstanding citizens. The one that stands out among them is a close friend of mine. He was homeschooled along with his 9 brothers and sisters. He is an honor graduate of the USAF Academy and is currently a captain in the USAF. If you met him you would never have any idea that he was ever homeschooled (according to your assumptions of homeschooled children being "weird"). I used to have the same feeling about homeschooling as you because the first few people I met that had been homeschooled were weird, but that was not because of homeschooling, that was because their parents sheltered them way too much...they couldn't play with other kids, they weren't in little league or other sports, they couldn't watch TV at all, and they couldn't even listen to the radio. Homeschooling doesn't make kids weird...trying to completely shelter your children from the outside world does.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
To be fair, homeschooling i
June 28, 2007 - 10:24 ET by balboaTo be fair, homeschooling in some situations is much better than it used to be, with kids completely isolated. But there are still those homeschooled kids who have zero social skills, like Ms. Euonym. This year's spelling bee winner is also a little odd.
That would be spelling-bee
June 28, 2007 - 10:26 ET by sarcasmoThat would be spelling-bee asskicker, Bal...
JMR
Is that "ass" fro
June 28, 2007 - 10:28 ET by balboaIs that "ass" from the English, and "kicker" from the root word "kick"? ;-)
Mean Gene,ok I'll agree that
June 28, 2007 - 10:24 ET by LeonMean Gene,
ok I'll agree that SOME children escape the dangers of homeschooling through sports and active parents, but most parents that homeschool do so b/c they are controlling and feel a need to shelter their children from the outside world.
I had a good number of homeschooled children at my college and there were a few that were reasonably normal, but not many.
You can't be around your parents all day when you're growing up. You need to leave the nest in order to develop independence and an ability to function on your own. Normative social development is dependent upon children gaining a sense of identity/independence through their own personal interactions with other children. If you sit around with your parents all day you miss out.
Frankly, the whole idea creeps me out. Again, I consider it abuse.
You don't know what you are t
June 28, 2007 - 10:32 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveYou don't know what you are talking about. Research.
Homeschooling doesn't necessarily mean that a parent always teaches their own children. There are cooperatives where you send you kids to one house with several kids from a group of families for a week, the next they're at a different house. It provides diversity, it prevents boredom, and it helps to build social skills. You are still too ignorant on the subject.
Like I said, I used to have the same feelings as you, but as I have learned more and met well adjusted people that had been homeschooled, my opinions have changed significantly. Homeschooled children are also do better on placement tests than their public and private schooled counterparts.
Public school is child abuse to me.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
How is public school abuse?
June 28, 2007 - 10:38 ET by LeonHow is public school abuse? It's the real world. Gonna have to be on your own eventually, might as well acquire the skills necessary to survive.
Are you going to hold your child's hand for their entire life? Are you going to constantly loom over their shoulder to make sure they believe what you want them to believe.
Please, homeschooling is a bizarre institution.
I'm not going to hold my chil
June 28, 2007 - 11:02 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveI'm not going to hold my children's hands their entire lives, but I am going to ensure they have a the highest quality education. Kids don't get that in public school.
Public school is child abuse in my mind because (just a few items on my long list):
My list goes on and on and on.
We spend over 3 times as much of our GDP on education as we do on the Military...if I remember correctly, we spend more per capita than any other country in the world on public education and other countries turn out more intelligent students than we do.
The United States Public School system is failing...the more money we dump into it the worse off it becomes. If Home Schooling is such a bizarre institution (and abuse) why then, are more and more families doing it?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson
Gene,Not sure what schools yo
June 28, 2007 - 11:16 ET by LeonGene,
Not sure what schools you've seen but allow me to retort:
1) Mediocrity is not rewarded. Excellence is rewarded. You don't get accepted to a top university by being mediocre. The true reward of public school is geting into college which requires excellence not mediocrity - You're deadwrong on this. If anything, you could argue that public school places too much emphasis on excellent achievement.
2) Ok Kool Aid. Whatever. I remember my 9th grade history teacher calling commies PINKOs. Pretty sure he wasn't using it as an endearing term. This claim is hilarious b/c it's so outdated and laughable and overused.
3) Children graduate with the skills and knowledge they need to go to college, which is the point of getting an education. Then you go to college, focus your studies, and learn those things applicable to the specific career you intend to pursue. This is how it works and this is how it should work.
4) Extra curriculur activities do not take precendence. In order to get into a top college, you need to be well-rounded. This means excelling in a diverse range of activities, including academics, sports, and extra-curriculurs such as volunteer work. These are all emphasized as they indicate a well-rounded, successful, individual.
5) Children are taught to victims? Hmm I must have missed that class
6) Yeah I definitely didn't learn about the Constitution or the Federalist Papers in any of my government classes. What the heck are you talking about? What a lie you made.
7) Revisionist history? Yawn.
8) Children are taught to read and write properly. This is hilarious. You read and write essays continuously. I don't even know why I responded to this point.
9) Bright children are not held back by their peers. There are different levels of classes that you take in accordance to your intelligence/educational level. Do you know anything about public schools. We had these levels at my school. Academic, Accelerated, Honors, and AP. Academic was the lowest for underachieving/learning disabled children, accelerated was for average students, honors was for high achievers, and AP was for the top students. So in this system nobody holds anybody back. This single point shows that you have no clue about the current state of the public education system in this country.
10) Children are taught to question the world in general. This is a good thing. People that don't question stagnate and never progress.
Your post looks like it was written 40 years ago. Time to update my man. The world has changed drastically since you were in high school. Feel free to address my points above when you get a chance.
Men stumble over the truth fr
June 28, 2007 - 11:26 ET by vrwc13Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if