On Tuesday's episode (6/19/07) of The View, Michael Moore advocated socialized medicine by saying that "Jesus told us that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us." (Video at Hot Air.)
The problem? For one, starting many years ago, Michael Moore has displayed behavior that many followers of Jesus would find offensive. Moore also reportedly has a dubious history in dealing with "the least" around him in his own life.
1. Back in high school, the rebellious Moore staged a play that openly mocked Jesus' Crucifixion. Read about it on Moore's own web site:
Around that time I wrote and directed a play that included a scene where Jesus yanks the nails out and comes down off the cross. Actors playing locally-known bigots rose out of the audience to stab, shoot and beat "Jesus" to death, drag him back up to the cross on the stage, and re-crucify him. Typical drama from an ex-seminarian.
You can imagine not much of this went over very well with the local business and Born Again establishment ...
2. Moore has openly championed pro-choice candidates and the pro-choice cause (link).
Here's a question for Moore: Is there anything more innocent, defenseless, and vulnerable ("the least") than an unborn child in the womb of its mother?
Moore identifies himself as "Catholic," yet his pro-choice position is not the least bit in communion with the Church, which teaches that abortion is evil by its very nature (intrinsece malum). (Interesting tidbit: The Didache (aka "The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles"), possibly the oldest known Christian document not in the Bible, says, "[Y]ou shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born" (2:2). The Didache has been dated as early as 50 A.D.)
How is defending abortion in alignment with Jesus' teaching of caring for "the least among us"? Michael?
3. One could also argue that Moore has a troubling record in dealing with "the least" himself. Peter Schweizer's bestselling Do As I Say (Not As I Do) book provides a number of examples:
- The Writer's Guild union "had to arbitrate several complaints from TV Nation writers who hadn't received proper payments for their work." Adds Schweizer, "[A co-executive producer] says that Moore did not want to give writers proper credit, thereby having to share the profits." (TV Nation was a series created by Moore that aired briefly in the 1990's.)
- "For a man who by 2002 had a net worth in eight figures, he gave away a modest $36,000 through [his] foundation, much of it to his friends in the film business or tony cultural organizations ... Indeed, he gave away just barely the minimum necessary to maintain the foundation's charitable status."
- "John Pierson, who distributed [Moore's 1989 film] Roger & Me, found him impossible to deal with. Moore would upbraid him for how much he was making on the film and tell him to share. Pierson could get him to shut up only by pointing out that Moore made more money than anyone and should perhaps part with some of his own money. Douglas Urbanski used to manage Michael Moore. 'He is more money obsessed than any I have known,' he says, 'and that's saying a lot.'" (emphasis mine)
- "During a 2004 ceremony for [MoveOn.org], Moore's handlers insisted that he have his own supply of imported water backstage. 'Poland Spring wasn't good enough,' someone at the event told New York magazine. 'They called up to make sure he would have enough Evian.'"
Finally, Moore said he doesn't want to call his hopes "socialized medicine," but "Christianized medicine." Is it me, or ... if a conservative ever touted "Christianized medicine," wouldn't many in the MSM immediately hyperventilate with cries of a "theocracy" and shrieks of "separation of church and state"? (It reminds me of how Barack Obama openly campaigned from the pulpit in a Los Angeles church (April 29, 2007). If there was even a peep of an objection anywhere in the media, I didn't hear it. Now if a Republican had done this ...?)
—Dave Pierre is the creator of TheMediaReport.com and a contributor to NewsBusters.
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The man is a pig!
June 21, 2007 - 07:47 ET by OiznopMocks Christians, sarcastically calls the states that Bush won in 2004 "Jesus Land," but yet uses Christ to pimp his socialist agenda? Oh, this guy is too much. Damn Hippo-Crite!
i think its hilarious how y
June 21, 2007 - 09:33 ET by treshani think its hilarious how you can all criticize michael moore with your holier than thou attitude for antics he did in HIGH SCHOOL (hello, most people in high school are like that), and then end the rant with DAMN Hippo-crite!). i guess there's more than one HYPOcrite in the room.
tthomas - moore has done plen
June 21, 2007 - 09:42 ET by florida_chadtthomas - moore has done plenty in the last 10 years to be critized. You here to defend him? Most of the comments here address his adult life. You got any other complaints?
And, to add to what you're sa
June 21, 2007 - 10:15 ET by Darth DutchAnd, to add to what you're saying Florida_Chad, we're not being "holier than thou" with Michael Moore; we're simply examining what he says versus what he does. That's not being hypocritical, tthomas, that's simply seeing if a man's actions & words line up. If they don't, he's a hypocrite.
Dutch
agreed - it looks like tthoma
June 21, 2007 - 10:39 ET by florida_chadagreed - it looks like tthomas may be thowing out the troll line to see what he/she catches...............
I will say though that some
June 21, 2007 - 13:26 ET by balboaI will say though that sometimes people are pointed out for having changed their opinions from years ago, as if someone it's not allowed that a person change their mind as they get older.
You probably won't see any
June 21, 2007 - 13:37 ET by sarcasmoYou probably won't see any arguments on this one from Romney-supporters, Bal! ;)
JMR
Well, probably not, but it'
June 21, 2007 - 13:41 ET by balboaWell, probably not, but it's like "The other day John Kerry said he loved Rocky Road ice cream. But in an interview for the September, 1961, issue of Highlights Magazine, he explicitly declared his hate of the popular ice cream flavor. Which is it, John?"
Dead on analogy with regard
June 21, 2007 - 13:44 ET by MightyMouthDead on analogy with regard to Kerry flip flops balboa!
*rolls eyes*
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I knew you'd love that.
June 21, 2007 - 13:47 ET by balboaI knew you'd love that.
I loved it so much that alo
June 21, 2007 - 13:54 ET by MightyMouthI loved it so much that along with the "eye roll" you didn't see:
MM: *making stroking motion with right hand and loud raspberry noise with tongue sticking out*
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Its one thing to rethink your
June 21, 2007 - 13:55 ET by florida_chadIts one thing to rethink your opinion over time. Most people do. But when there are lots of changes in a short timeframe, people wonder about the reasons for the change.
Of course. But citing a pla
June 21, 2007 - 14:06 ET by balboaOf course. But citing a play he wrote while in high school, that's a little much. Also there does exist a group of people who are pro-choice Christians.
"pro-choice Christians&q
June 21, 2007 - 16:30 ET by vrwc13"pro-choice Christians"...isn't that an oxymoron?
commom sense isn't very common anymore
I don't agree. I could see
June 21, 2007 - 16:45 ET by amberMr. Balboa, I don't agree. I could see your point if NB or some other news gatherer dug it up from the archives, but that did not happen. Mr. Moore wrote about it on his own blog and then commented about how others took it in a derogatory manner. He did not say, "yup, I did it, it was pretty callous and stupid, but hey, I was a teenager." He seemed pretty proud to add it to his credits.
And then, a moment later, t
June 21, 2007 - 14:07 ET by sarcasmoAnd then, a moment later, they think: "getting elected!" :)
JMR
tthomas, if you think anythin
June 21, 2007 - 10:35 ET by Beowulftthomas, if you think anything about Mikey Moore is funny, you have a severely warped sense of humor. As for the reference to his actions in high-school, it was simply detailing how long this moron has been a hypocrite. He abuses those he interviews for his "documentaries", yet refuses to be interviewed. He lies, cheats, and steals to make mo[o]re money, yet slams anyone he considers "rich". He tears up the best health-care system in the world, yet do you really believe he would go to Cuba if he needed medical treatment?
The one and only thing that interests Mikey is money. He has found a base of brain-dead morons who continue to support him regardless of his proven hypocrisy and blatant falsification of facts. Besides being fat, incredibly stupid, and fatally moronic, he continues to thrive (and leech from) these rubes. Anyone who looks and acts like he does, spews the idiocy he does, and is internationally recognized as he is, will be dissected back to his toddler days if that's what it takes to force people to wake up and actually recognize him for what he is.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
Another hit and run lib who a
June 21, 2007 - 10:46 ET by Airforce_5_OAnother hit and run lib who adds no substance to the debate. Well I guess he had nothing worth saying.
Gee, what a surprise! A troll
June 21, 2007 - 13:11 ET by BeowulfGee, what a surprise! A troll with nothing real to say... What IS NB coming to???
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
Abe Lincoln once asked a ma
June 21, 2007 - 07:57 ET by motherbeltAbe Lincoln once asked a man 'How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?" Man answers "five". Lincoln: "Wrong. Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."
Ditto Michael Moore calling himself a Catholic. That's one time the MSM tactic would be legitimate..."Michael Moore, who calls himself a Catholic...", not Michael Moore, who is a Catholic......he can call himself a woman, that won't make him one.
If you believe in abortion, divorce, don't have a problem with adultery and extra-marital sex, I don't care what you call yourself, you are NOT a Catholic. You simply choose to go into a Catholic Church on occasion. I can go into a synagogue every Friday night...it won't make me a Jew.
Moore is right, we are judged by how we treat the least among us. Mother Teresa often spoke of that....but since she meant the destitute and unborn as well as the sick, Moore would ignore that.
Always remember....Christianity is OK as long as it is cloaked in the mantle of "social justice" by a Liberal (a la Obama in the Church) without any of that stupid "repressive" stuff, you know, like chastity or not killing unborn or partially-born babies.
}}----> Off topic
June 21, 2007 - 07:57 ET by Cool ArrowWe are slowly drawn off topic from outlandish politicians to the stupid tricks of their pets.
Sure' Moore's a pig, but he's their pig.
And Michael "cheapskat
June 21, 2007 - 08:04 ET by motherbeltAnd Michael "cheapskate" Moore has the gall to complain that "we" don't do enough? Comeon, Michael, Oprah at least puts her money where her mouth is....why don't you pony up for a "free" clinic, maybe in Detroit, or Dearborn, or wherever it is you claim you come from, for the poor and downtrodden??????
It's so much easier to spend other people's money, isn't it? You are the biggest (and I mean that in EVERY sense of the word) hypocrite of all.
}}----> motherbelt no bang per buck
June 21, 2007 - 08:12 ET by Cool ArrowThe "drama" we see unfolding in Canton Ohio happens every week in Detroit. The Dems believe Negroes should be not seen and not heard until such time as their righteous indignation is needed against the opressive Conservatives.
Hucksters and Barkers abound in the Democrat Party.
Michael Moore, once again,
June 21, 2007 - 08:25 ET by AtillaKahunaMichael Moore, once again, has proved that he is a hypocrit, and we're surprised why? I have suspected for his entire public career that he was much less of a champion of social causes than he was a champion of his own personal aggandizement.
No surprises for me here.
The secular Christians know
June 21, 2007 - 08:36 ET by Dan The Man 2The secular Christians know nothing of what a Christian is. The Church ought to denounce him on the spot but it wont. The modern day secular believes Christianity is merely doing good social works and it is not. In fact if you never ever did a good work in your life you could be a Christian. I guess its creeps like Moore that are giving teh CC its bad name.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
}}----> good works
June 21, 2007 - 08:42 ET by Cool ArrowSecular progressives further believe these good works should be accomplished with other people's money.
The Church ought to denounc
June 21, 2007 - 08:42 ET by motherbeltThe Church ought to denounce him on the spot but it wont. Dan the Man 2
The Catholic Church will not be undone by the likes of Michael Moore.
And I just watched the HotAir video of the segment....hurray for Star Parker!! When Moore started spouting about how we treat the least among us, she got right in his face and said He never said we should take our neighbor's money to do it...He said we should do it on our own!! But of course, Barbara shoved her face in there too, to try to make Parker back off..
Because liberals are only good at spending "everyone's" or "other people's" money!
}}----> GMTA mother
June 21, 2007 - 08:45 ET by Cool Arrowyou owe me a coke.
Cool Arrow....was that addres
June 21, 2007 - 08:47 ET by motherbeltCool Arrow....was that addressed to me???? I am lost!
And the ending of the segment was the best...Parker said Jesus didn't say we should not go into our neighbors' pocket and make them do it, we should do it oursleves!
and Moore the Bible Scholar actually says "No, He said we should do it collectively!!!"
I had to listen twice to make sure...he (Moore) really says that at the end!
}}----> yes, mother
June 21, 2007 - 08:51 ET by Cool ArrowTraditionally when we were kids and two people said the same thing at the same time, the first to say "you owe me a coke" wins a coke.
We both simultaneously mentioned Other people's money.
I forgot I wasn't back in the schoolyard. sorry.
OK, gotcha. ;-)
June 21, 2007 - 08:53 ET by motherbeltOK, gotcha. ;-)
We used to say, "Jinx! C
June 21, 2007 - 09:12 ET by pbanks7We used to say, "Jinx! Can't say anything till someone says your name.
" Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.
Jinx
June 21, 2007 - 09:31 ET by florida_chadMan I wish that worked here..............)
The CC is being undone by man
June 21, 2007 - 09:14 ET by Dan The Man 2The CC is being undone by many like Moore. It will survive but in what form and with what values, Moore's? Unless the CC takes a firm stand then it will die, perhaps not physically but morally and spiritually.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
Ex-communicated...this came u
June 21, 2007 - 09:43 ET by vrwc13Ex-communicated...this came up in another post a few days ago, he and his ilk like kerry, have automatically ex-communicated (Latae sententiae) themselves with their stances on abortion. No process needed.
Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore
"On Tuesday's episode (6
June 21, 2007 - 08:44 ET by Gothampc"On Tuesday's episode (6/19/07) of The View, Michael Moore advocated socialized medicine by saying that "Jesus told us that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us."
Unlike Moore's beliefs, Jesus never said that the government should be in charge of supplying everything. Jesus said, "If you have need, ask of My Father"
Good point Gothampc. The Bi
June 21, 2007 - 09:18 ET by LilyPearlGood point Gothampc. The Bible also says in 2 Thess 3:10, "...If a man will not work, he shall not eat." Why should we think people should get free health care if the Bible says they shouldn't even eat if they don't work?
It should be noted too that J
June 21, 2007 - 10:26 ET by Darth DutchIt should be noted too that Jesus was speaking to his followers. It is the Church's responsibility and Christian's responsibility to take care of the least of these - not Michael Moore's & not the governments. The Church has failed to do this in many ways, but that doesn't justify Moore using that Scripture to advance his agenda.
Dutch
"The Church has failed t
June 21, 2007 - 10:32 ET by Gothampc"The Church has failed to do this in many ways"
I agree, but government has made it very difficult to do this. The government harasses churches who try to help out. They are afraid that churches will try to proselytize those in need.
Only if they take public mone
June 21, 2007 - 11:41 ET by Dan The Man 2Only if they take public money, if the operation is run on charity then there is no issue. Jesus also believed in the charity of the individual in a collective arrangement with the church. He did not want government money becuase in His infinite wisdom He knows what goverments can and will do.
But the rise of the governmnet filling in for the church has made the church and the followers rely more on teh governmnet. It is a downward spiral and only ends in trajegdy at the whim of a merciless governmnet.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
The CC does alot of good in t
June 21, 2007 - 10:34 ET by florida_chadThe CC does alot of good in the world also, lets not forget that part.
Matthew 7:21 [Jesus said] &
June 21, 2007 - 09:15 ET by LilyPearlMatthew 7:21 [Jesus said] "Not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
fire insurance
June 21, 2007 - 09:23 ET by vrwc13Amen LilyPearl, not everybody's "fire" insurance policy is valid.
Healthcare in America, like e
June 21, 2007 - 10:20 ET by jpatchHealthcare in America, like every other part of our society, is in need of tweaking. To say that it does not work, or that our healthcare system is poor compared to the rest of the world is not only incorrect, it's a slap in the face to every biomedical/pharmacuetical company, scientist, doctor and nurse.
So much of what we pay for goes to R & D for new drugs, new procedures, new equipment, and to pay for the best doctors and surgeons in the world. The entire rest of humanity benefits from the advances in medicine that OUR country creates, in the same way that they benefit from our military protection, and our generosity as a nation. I'm so sick of hearing about how we're the enemy in every facet of life, when in fact America and Americans are some of the hardest working, most ingenuitive, most brave, and most generous people on the face of the earth.
If we have a problem with our healthcare system, let's point out specifically where the biggest problems are, and let's see what we can do to make our excellent doctors, facilites and medicine available to more people...but let's not get confused. Farmers don't give away their crops, textile companies don't give away clothes, and the U.S. mint doesn't give away money. Healthcare is not a God given right, nor is eating, having shelter, having clothes, or having a livelihood...we must work our butts off for all of those things, and I'll be damned if I ever agree to a system where my money is taken from me so it can go to take care of someone that isn't taking care of themselves.
"Jesus told us that we
June 21, 2007 - 10:37 ET by amber"Jesus told us that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us."
Tell me, enlighten me, where did Jesus say that? I have searched over 10 different translations (NIV, KJ, NLT, NASV, Youngs litteral, Wycliff, Holman...) for the words judged and least and found nothing to match those words. What I did find was this:
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
It does not say we will be judged by what we do for the needy. If we are Christian, that means we are claiming to love Jesus, if we love Jesus, then we will help those in need.
I absolutly detest it when people make up verses and say Jesus said them, all so they can prove their own warped point. He is an idiot and definately not a Christian.
John 16:3
June 21, 2007 - 10:45 ET by vrwc13I hear moore's favorite verse is John 16:3...
Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore
Jesus would be for social m
June 21, 2007 - 16:56 ET by Night WatchmanJesus would be for social medicine.
The play is just a twist on the crucifixion. I don't think anyone can be sure how it really happened.
I don't know if you were bein
June 21, 2007 - 18:27 ET by amberI don't know if you were being serious or not. I never read anywhere in the Bible that Jesus said to the ill, "come with me to the doctor's office, we'll hold a sit in until he gives you a pill and makes you feel all better" Nope, he said, "be healed" that was free.
We do NOT know that Jesus wou
June 22, 2007 - 10:28 ET by jayhufWe do NOT know that Jesus would be for Socialized (Government) medicine. Remember we have the so called seperation of church and state. Being benovolent is not a gov't function it comes from our hearts and falls clearly on the church side. Jesus wanted us to be our brothers keeper not big brother to be our keeper.
If He were "for"
June 22, 2007 - 10:34 ET by sarcasmoIf He were "for" it, one would think He'd have at least once advocated a more-than-a-tithe for big brother tax system, like we currently have...I'm not certain exactly what percentage of income the average taxpayer in biblical times was forced to "render to Caeser," but I'm pretty-sure it was less than 30-50% or they'd have literally all-starved. ONLY modern agricultural technology allows government as big as we now have, and that's important to keep in mind when reading history, IMO.
JMR
Jesus would not be in favor of socialized medicine
June 22, 2007 - 10:36 ET by LionKingJesus would not favor socialized medicine. He would favor Divine healing from believers. Whether you believe in it or not, that is what he did and instructed his disciples (not just Apostles) to do also.
Jesus also had something to s
June 21, 2007 - 22:45 ET by m4ster chiefJesus also had something to say about gluttony. There is, also in the Holy Scriptures..."Do not be rash with your mouth...a fool's voice is known by his many words." And, "Do not hasten in your spirit to be angry, for anger rests in the bosom of fools."
Is Michael Moore angry? And does he talk a lot?
40"The King will reply,
June 22, 2007 - 08:57 ET by 4arrow40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(my words) I worry about folks who are taught that they need do to nothing but believe. see 45 & 46 again.
I don't understand your post,
June 22, 2007 - 17:01 ET by m4ster chiefI don't understand your post, Arrow. Did you write all of that to somehow insinuate that all I do is believe, as opposed to actually contribute to the unfortunate in our society? If so, you judge me without knowing me. My problem with Moore is that he is not simply making a film about the inadequacies of our medical system, but actually compares our system with a murderous dictatorship...and finds us wanting. He is an "America Hater," and it shows. If you (or Moore) need a heart transplant, would you go to Cuba or shop around here? (We know the answer to that, don't we?)
Now, read again the original blog. That is what I was replying to...the fact that Moore uses the name of Jesus when it is convenient for him, but is contemptuous of Christians who practice the life. Gotta read more carefully; otherwise we'll think of you as a crooked arrow with a dull point.
Relax ChiefMy post simply cam
June 22, 2007 - 17:49 ET by 4arrowRelax Chief
My post simply came after yours which I didn't read. The point of my post could not be any clearer.
My sincere apologies, Arrow.
June 22, 2007 - 23:16 ET by m4ster chiefMy sincere apologies, Arrow. Now I feel stupid, but it did appear that you were replying to me. I'll be more temperate with my comments in the future. I wasn't practicing what I was preaching in my post, was I...about the fool and his words? Oh well, I've been dumb before and will be again, in all probability. But His grace covers our sins, great and small...and I'm certainly glad of that.
John
Chief, I understand. and humb
June 23, 2007 - 08:18 ET by 4arrowChief, I understand. and humbly accept your apology.
In a chat room it is so easy to be misunderstood/misunderstand. You have beautiful manners that is clear.