Movie Scolded For Not Espousing Abortion


A new Hollywood comedy by Judd Apatow called "Knocked Up" is taking heat for its perceived stance on abortion from an unlikely source; the left. The movie is a comedy bordering on raunchiness that is proving a popular diversion this Summer with strong box office takes. It's about a slobish sort of slacker (actor Seth Rogen) who has a one night stand with an incredibly beautiful and together woman (the delightful Katherine Heigl) who's life is on the rise. Unfortunately for her, she gets pregnant. The rest of the movie centers on how these two very different people attempt to get together to have and raise their child... and therein lies the left's displeasure.

You see, the couple decides to keep the baby instead of aborting it. How revolting, eh?

A snippy little review by Anthony Lane in The New Yorker snidely comments upon how Apatow's film is geared towards the great unwashed "conservative" audiences, as if that in and of itself is a disgusting proposition.

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Apatow, unlike his hero, is nothing if not careful: born in Syosset, New York, now living in the Los Angeles area, he clearly wants his movies to shock, but not to repel, a conservative audience, and thus the idea of his heroine’s aborting the child is no sooner floated than dispelled.

How dare Apatow "dispel" the idea of killing a baby, even if it is only a fictitious one!

In fact, The New Yorker seems to be disgusted with the entire theme of giving birth. Lane haughtily desparages the film with: "I suppose that, with a baby due, there is no way it was ever going to avoid a sentimental splurge." Here he is obviously turning up his nose at the very idea of a such a "sentimental" thing as a baby's birth.

Slate is no better with reviewer Dana Stevens seeming to insist that no one in an "upper-middle-class, secular L.A" would ever imagine that abortion isn't an option.

Allow me to briefly divagate here on the nonexistence of abortion as an option in Knocked Up. This omission smells of the focus group, and it's a disappointment in a movie that otherwise prides itself on its unsentimental honesty about the realities of unplanned parenthood. It's just not believable that, in Alison and Ben's upper-middle-class, secular L.A. milieu, abortion would not be matter-of-factly discussed as a possibility in the case of a pregnancy this accidental.

Her pedantic use of "divagate" aside, Stevens is amazing because she is such a true believer in abortion that she just can't imagine that anyone else except, perhaps, a knuckle dragging midwestern rube, would ever care about the life of a fetus... or is that an unviable clump of cells? What ever the hip phrase for infanticide is today.

And let us not leave out The New York Times, all the news that's fit to abort, which quickly jumps on the why-not-have-an-abortion bandwagon with a review by Mireya Navarro.

The possibility of not having the baby is never discussed by either woman despite her circumstances. The word “abortion” is never uttered...Though conservatives regularly accuse Hollywood of being overly liberal on social issues, abortion rarely comes up in film.

One interesting portion of Navarro's NYTimes review, however, was a bit shocking for it's unexpected honesty.

While pondering exactly why it might be that movie makers don't show abortion as regularly as she would like, Navarro seems to admit that abortion is unsavory and makes the aborter an "unsympathetic character", revealing that even she knows deep in her heart that abortion is somehow wrong and/or bad.

Perhaps directors of feel-good movies don’t want to risk portraying their heroines as unsympathetic characters.

If I didn't think that Sigmund Freud was such a fraud, I'd say Navarro had a bout with parapraxis... or to be less pedantic, she had a Freudian slip there.

Navarro scolds the movie because conservative anti-abortion advocates are recommending the film for the fact that its characters don't consider an abortion as a viable parenting option.

Some on the anti-abortion side seem to think so. Many conservative bloggers have claimed “Knocked Up” as an anti-choice movie, in part because the movie never presents abortion as a serious option.

Gasp! The horrors!

In any case, each and every one of these political positions parading as a movie review says the same thing about the reason that Hollywood is reticent to highlight the abortion option in their films. They all assume that the box office take would be a bust for a film where expectant Mothers go about killing their babies.

And this begs the question... if abortion is so well accepted by everyone, if it is so matter of factly an option for most "sensible" Americans, why would a movie that reflects that be such an obvious bomb? Could it be because even common folks who accept abortion at some perfunctory level don't want to see movies where Mothers kill their babies? Could it be that even nominal supporters of abortion are uncomfortable with the procedure when all is said and done? Could it also be that far more people are either totally against abortion or are at least are uncomfortable with its moral implications than there are those who easily accept it as a mere choice in life?

In any case, these abortion supporting reviewers seem to be straight forwardly admitting that their blasé views on abortion are in the minority -- making them an awfully small audience -- and this would seem to be troublesome when spending the millions it takes to make a film.

Were I a movie producer, I think I'd like my film to get a wider audience than that tiny fragment of the country who are rabid abortion advocates.

How about you?

Related post by Ken Shepherd here.


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Check the title, liberals.....

At the risk of oversimplifying this, Earth to lefties..........

The title of the movie is "Knocked Up." If you abort the baby, don't you also abort the central premise of the movie? 'Cause ya see, she won't be "knocked up" anymore. Get it? I knew that ya could.

I am pretty sure they wanted

I am pretty sure they wanted the movie to be called "Vacuumed Out"

Yeah, there ya go....a come

There ya go....a comedy about getting an abortion. They could have a bunch of idiot chanting protestors at the clininc, an abortionist who's a drunk and says stupid things like "get the next bitch in here, I got a golf date in an hour"...and a nurse who spends her time in the clinic making Hoover jokes....

It would be the "feel-good date movie of the summer!"

I guess they could have kille

I guess they could have killed the child within the first 30 minutes and the people could have went on to live their individual lives.  Then once the girl became a mother, the story could have focused on the emotional problems and guilt she would be having and the realization that she once killed one of her children.  A brother or sister to her new child.  Or the now married girl found out that she could not conceive a child due to a problem caused by the abortion and the guilt and emotional problems that go along with that story line.

Lostone

Prenatal Guidance Suggested

For the sequel, it's a couple of years down the road and the child needs a bone marrow transplant.  There are no good matches.

This zany couple gets Knocked Up II.  They determine the match with "the fetus" is perfect and the closing scene features a halfborn "fetus" giggling and cooing as his skull is punctured and the lifegiving fluid is extracted.

PRENATAL GUIDANCE SUGGESTED (forget parental and paternal)

Anything to keep the 'apolitical' movie reviewers happy

}}}}}-------------------->

C'mon, get real!

That schmuck couldn't get laid in a women's prison with a bagful of pardons, free dope or knockout pills.

Much Shorter Movie.

I agree, there wouldn't have been much of a movie if she hadn't "dispelled" the idea of abortion.

I wonder why he used dispelled instead of discarded? Isn't that what abortion is all about?

Make this day a holiday

Wait a minute!  A movie, about taking responsibility for actions made of one's own freewill???

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

Yes yes, it's a nightmare for

Yes yes, it's a nightmare for all liberals for the light to be shined on a subject like this and rather than murdering the child... the persons involved actually become responsible in spite of the difficulties.

It's horrid!

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

Responsibility

Since the liberal mindset doesn't include the concept of responsibility for ones actions yes it is probably very horrid.  If  you get into trouble, remove the consequences go on with you life and do it again.

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

Unsane: I will have my crow with a light alfredo sauce, please.

"Wait'll next year." - The motto of the City of Cleveland ;)

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Reading the excerpts of these

Reading the excerpts of these reviewers has taken me inside their juvenile, silly PC mind for too long.  These people really struggle with themselves. 

Liberalism is a convenient lie.

I just have one question -- h

I just have one question -- how could anyone want to suffer through this buffoon's movie review? I just read thru it, and need to reach for the excedrin. Ouch. Whatever possessed you, of your own free will, to read this anyway? Do these people actually get paid for writing such drival?

But this "critic" has a good point. Instead of commenting on the actual movie, all critics should start commenting on what the movie isn't. That way, no plots have to be written, and we're in and out of the theater in 15 minutes -- just enough time to sit thru the commercials and buy some refreshments. Think of the turnover -- we could cram dozens of showings per day, instead of the 4 or 5.

For instance, the Halloween movies could be shortened if Jason would have simply planted a bomb when everyone was in the house. Boom! Quick finish. Where were the critics on this one?

And why did the Titanic have to sink so slowly? Now that was a long movie. Shorten it up. Just show the last scene -- no need to worry about all the personalities, or it's launch. Come on critics, start doing your job.

And the Ten Commandments. Just put up a scrolling message -- Not Allowed. I'm sure that the critics in those days could have done a better job of wondering why the ACLU wasn't in the movie, and why the heck anyone would have chosen those particular commandments anyway. And why 10? What's so magic about that number? Those critics probably could have suggested different commandments, I'm sure. And we would have stood in line just waiting to read their reviews.

I really can't stand most m

I really can't stand most movie critics. They think they are way smarter than the reader. This guy probably thinks he should receive a doctorate for perfectly psychoanalyzing the characters. What a shmuck.

I like the idea of the 15 min

I like the idea of the 15 minute movie. I am usually done with my nachos and soda by then anyway, and those are usually the highlight of most movies .

TnT: Your post is pure gold.

TnT: Your post is pure gold. I give it two thumbs up and a whoo-hoo!

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Gone With the Wind

Maybe these reviewers should get Michael Moore to do another version.  He could call it "Sucko."

The climactic scene would be when the baby's head emerges only to have its skull punctured and brains sucked out.  They wouldn't even need to use special effects as could surely get great footage with 10 to 20 abortions.

The film could end with a disclaimer that "No animals were harmed in making this movie!"

-- The problem is not that we are ignorant; rather, it is that so much of what we know is not true. --

Thanks Cross Wise

I was going to pitch a script about tick removal and you have to get all PETA on me.

}}}}}-------------------->

Knocked Up

Though conservatives regularly accuse Hollywood of being overly liberal on social issues, abortion rarely comes up in film

Focus groups?  I'm shocked!

I wonder how many women who have had abortions would get a good laugh out of this proposed comedic twist.

}}}}}-------------------->

This is my first post here. K

This is my first post here. Kinda nervous. It's just so hard to wrap my head around their way of thinking. It just makes me shake my head. I've been coming here for months, and I think NB's is awesome. I have wanted to comment for awhile, it's just hard to think of anything to say when the opposing view is so skewed. I just love to read  the comments here, some of you guys are hilarious.

Ah, keep on commenting. Soon

Ah, keep on commenting. Soon enough you'll be as good a wiseacre as the rest of us! And welcome to NewsBusters!

Thanks Warner.

Thanks Warner.

shannon20,I have been a membe

shannon20,

I have been a member for over a year and I still get nervous when I post. Some who post here are really great thinkers and have a wonderful way of expressing themselves. To comment on what you said about "wrapping your head around their way of thinking"...it just boggles the mind, doesn't it? Enjoy!

Welcome Shannon

Guess I can't say much.  I'm not one of the longer members here.

}}}}}-------------------->

I'm not one of the longer m

I'm not one of the longer members here.

And with a name like arrow too. No feathers attached either I hope?

You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll talk jive! Just check out my latest YouTube video Hillary Clinton Talks Jive

}}---->Thanks Bauer

Howzabout i go by another nick.

Chilly Dart}}---->

Please everyone don't be nerv

Please everyone don't be nervous when you post here - you are quite safe - only I know your actual address and telephone number and I still have to wear a monitor bracelet. The helicopters will get me if i try anything again. So letter rip people!!! Have fun with it...

...it was hard but I managed to keep religion out of it:)...

LOL...You're bad TM.......rea

LOL...

You're bad TM....

...really really bad...

Still LMAO!

Thanks BT - but I may have to

Thanks BT - but I may have to leave here abruptly and I'd like to wish you well - I'm going to post something deliciously nasty to Leon soon and it might get me banned from NB for life:)...

His utter stupidity is just so damn tempting - it must be the one and only scum-meister himself....must....resist...Satan...

Welcome, Shannon! I believe W

Welcome, Shannon! I believe Warner is in charge of sending you the basket full of delicious chocolates, soothing bath salts and fantastic money saving coupons to welcome you to the neighborhood.

Wiseacres? I don't see any of those around here.

*****

"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine no possessions?'" - Elvis Costello

Hey I didn't get one of those

Hey I didn't get one of those Hero!!!!

Is this something new we just started?

I Want One!!!!

shannon -- just jump right

shannon -- just jump right in and get into a chat with your conservative NBuddies.

There are a few lefty trolls here who lurve to torment themselves by coming to NB and convincing no one to agree with their rather odd views.

They keep regurgitating the same old tripe time after time, so unless one really ticks you off don't even waste your time answering their warped leftist verbiage.

Balboa's okay though.

You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll talk jive! Just check out my latest YouTube video Hillary Clinton Talks Jive

Call me a wild-eyed optimist,

Call me a wild-eyed optimist, but I think there's still hope for Leon, too. He may need to get a little tutoring from Bal on how to engage in meaningful dialogue and debate with opposing viewpoints, but I think he's shown moments of effort in this direction.

*****

"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine no possessions?'" - Elvis Costello

Hero,I have had a couple of o

Hero,

I have had a couple of off line chats with Leon.  Pretty intelligent and more to the center than left.  Has a bigger mistrust of the right then the left but there is hope.

Excellent! I'd just like to s

Excellent! I'd just like to see him (and others who are willing) bring more of that "I see your point of view, but here's mine" type of commentary, because it can turn into lively discussion here.

It's the haters we can do without.

*****

"I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a clown that gives a damn!" - Sticky the Clown

Hero,I think the major proble

Hero,

I think the major problem is that if you have a different opinion from the regular group on here, you don't even get the chance to discuss it before you get shouted down and insulted. 

Like I've said before, I've learned a lot on here.  I still disagree with a lot of stuff, but this has made me more knowledgable and more willing to listen to viewpoints I disagree with.  Unfortunately, there are a good number of posters who aren't interested in hearing another side of the debate. 

True. But remember, when you

True. But remember, when you enter the lion's den, you sometimes have to offer the lions some steak so that they don't pounce. It's commendable that you find it more interesting to hang out with the lions. Dangerous, but commendable.

Comments intended to be negatively provocative at the onset put the lions in defensive mode, usually by design. But I think when you post a reasonable question or state a point clearly and without broadbrushed generalizations, you will get more favorable results. I've seen you take both approaches. You are always more effective with the latter.

*****

"I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for a clown that gives a damn!" - Sticky the Clown

And by all means good luck wi

And by all means good luck with that you "pro-choicers" - he said in a broadbrushed and generalized sort of way...

...it was hard but I managed to keep religion out of it:)...

No, Leon, the "major problem" is not your "different opinion"

(Well, I was going to start with something sarcastic about poor, little, misunderstood Leon being shouted down and insulted, but, being amused with this morning's "nice" persona, decided to play along instead.   Just ignore the foregoing.)    ;^>

No, Leon,  the "major problem" is not your "different opinion."  It's your constant taunting.   Given that, why on earth would you expect a different response?   Either you have a serious memory problem or you're not being honest. 

RJ,You have no credibility on

RJ,

You have no credibility on this site.  You add nothing to any of the debates and you walk around with this deranged sense of personal infallibility (see our discussion the other day about the oversight committee report where you floundered for hours denyng your obvious misreading of my post b/c your hubris is so rampant you couldn't even admit you made a simple mistake).

You fancy yourself as the NB enforcer, but really you're just an embarssment to this site.  You routinely write long rambling screeds that are off topic and an intentional attempt to avoid actual debate. 

All you do is taunt and personally insult posters you disagree with and then call others out for doing the same thing.  fact, I can't remember the last time you put forth a defendeable postion.  You embody everything that USED to be wrong with this site.

Fortunately for Newsbusters, you're part of the old guard.  The times they are a changin'.  People on here are tired of posters like you.  The discourse is slowly becoming elevated. 

Time to adapt or die my good man. 

You're easy, Leon

Oops, there goes today's "reasonable" persona.  That took me one post to send Leon back to Trooling with a ranting and rambling attack.    

You're easy, Leon.....but, really, you're wound too tight....     ;^>

Well RJ,It's nice to see you

Well RJ,

It's nice to see you didn't challenge any of my points concerning you and your behavior on this site.

It's good to see someone, like you, that has accepted what they are. 

Just so long as you know.

Nah, I just consider the source, Leon

Nah,  I just consider the source and understand that it's mostly projection from a leftist Trool.    I have no need to "challenge" childish ad hominem nonsense, Leon. 

Say, I heard you beat your mother, Leon. If you don't "challenge" me, it must mean it's true....    ;^>

You were critical of him and

You were critical of him and he responded in like form. What did you expect?You must be so proud............

Exactly, chad

Brilliant, chad.   Did you get help in coming to that realization?   

The point I made is that your buddy's "nice" persona this morning was just an act.   He whined about wanting "reasonable" discussion, even while on other threads he was going on with his normal taunting.   I just made an example of his usual behavior.  

Thanks for noticing the brill

Thanks for noticing the brilliance. Your response was typical RJ - attack & then get mad when someone replies.

No problem, chad, I'm always willing to cheer

No problem, chad, I'm always willing to cheer for brilliance.    I've found that you're quite a guy.

Now, please explain how was my post an attack, and how I exhibited anger.   Thanks!    

You name calling and subtle l

Your name calling and subtle little digs, its all right your posts RJ.

I just checked, chad

I just checked the thread, chad, and I don't see where I called you names.   But I do see where your first post to me today could easily be seen as an "attack" and a not-so-subtle dig.    In spite of that, I responded politely, I think....

Anger I don't see, either. 

RJ, a first grader could se

RJ, a first grader could see you started this one with your post at 10:14. Leon responded in a very reasoned counter and you took off with his response calling him a troll. You are being the troll now.

The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.

Tsk, TWC

Tsk, TWC.   First grade, eh?   If that's the case, what grade are you in, bucko?     This particular exchange is with florida chad (your buddy?), and it was initiated by him....making your post a little foolish.

Leon's post (another buddy?) was full of misrepresentations and projections of his own behavior, but, hey, if it sounded reasoned, I guess that's good enough for you....    ;^>

RJ my post was in response to

RJ my post was in response to your treatment of Leon. WC is on topic. BTW - what is your fascination with "buddies" . I don't know Leon or WC. Neither is on my buddy list? You paranoid or something? Everyone that criticizes RJ must be in on some "buddy" conspiracy?

VRJC  : )....

VRJC  : )....

fc....I wasn't going to say a

fc....

I wasn't going to say anything here because RJ is quite capable of taking care of himself...but I have been reading the exchange and when WC decided to stick his nose in ...I am going to respond now.

Leon is a troll...and a very good one at that....he plays the game with expertise...with a lot of posters here....he has been here long before now, you have been here along time too...I would just ask you to think about it, that is all...he plays people here...and he has done a good job of it.

Period.

Btw....Hater ring a bell?

Hello BT - I sent you a PM.

Hello BT - I sent you a PM.

Lol...Answered already fc.Lat

Lol...

Answered already fc.

Later...

My goodness, chad

My goodness, chad.  Far be it from me to denigrate your intelligence, but you really do need help in deciphering the thread.    Otherwise, you wind up mixing two subjects as you and TWC have done.   I suppose there's an advantage, though, when your usual operating style is disjointed....as you've so thoroughly demonstrated in the past.....

As for "buddies", it's a reasonable assumption when two guys jump in....if you're not buddies, maybe you should consider it.....birds of a feather and all that.....   ;^>

So posting a comment to you i

So posting a comment to you is "jumping in". Wow, I didn't know you were so sensitive.

nope, chaddie

Not even a little bit....but you like to misrepresent events, don't you?   Lying is a sin, chaddie.....

swing and a miss

Not even close to true - but good try.

"Brilliant Chad. Did you

"Brilliant Chad. Did you get help in coming to that realization?"

Yes - its always polite to questions a persons intelligence.................

Its your passive/agressive posting style that caused me to not read or respond to your last PM.

Ah, chaddie, isn't it a sin to lie?

Ah, chaddie...isn't it a sin to lie?  Even by misdirection? 

My PM was in response to the initial PM you sent to me....and you even sent me a second PM before I had a chance to respond to the first....  

tsk, tsk, Chad.

It is a sin to lie, so you be careful :^|

No misdirection here. We exchanged several PMs, each restating our original positions, until I got tired of it. I didn't read or respond to your last PM. Where is the misdirection?

tsk, chaddie

Tsk, chaddie, you're still sinning by omission.   You tried to make it seem as if I inititated the PMs when you sent two to me before I responded....then you got huffy 'cause you didn't like what I said (nothing but a repetition of what I said on the thread) and sorta slammed the door on your way out.    Are you saying that if I didn't respond, I would have "won?"  Interesting concept, chaddie....   ;^>

RJ - we just completly disagr

RJ - we just completly disagree about this. I tried to make it seem like what it was.

Well Chad,Looks like you've h

Well Chad,

Looks like you've had the pleasure of dealing with the RJ run-around.  Sometimes it truly makes my head spin.

I appreciate your posts and you have been 100% correct.

I now pronounce you Troll and "man"

Great match!   I now pronounce you Troll and "man."

high complitments from the ne

high complitments from the newsbuster pitbull..................

Ugh.  Say goodbye to the old

Ugh. 

Say goodbye to the old guard RJ.  You, BT, and SportsPolitics have had your fun, but this site no longer revolves around shouting and personal attacks. 

Get your sunglasses out because the future is looking bright.

"Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'."

}}----> Dylan

  • They're selling postcards of the hanging
  • they're painting the passports brown
  • the beauty parlor is filled with sailors
  • the circus is in town
  • and the riot squad, they're restless
  • they need somewhere to go
  • as lady and I look out tonight on Desolation Row

It's a trollish coup attempt!

hahaha!   It's a trollish coup attempt!  

RJ - you branching out from r

RJ - you branching out from religious judgments to performing ceremonies?

Branching? RJ loves branch

Branching? RJ loves branching. Unless you're talking about his family tree.

No that's an ad hominem attack!

The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.

Come on, TWC

More first grade humor?   ;^>

Not all ceremonies, chad

Just shotgun weddings...   ;^>

A shotgun is the only way thi

A shotgun is the only way this cermonary would happen. :-o

Better tell, Leon, chad

Better tell Leon, chad.  He seems to be in love with you, and he'll be disappointed.....   ;^>

dissapointment = oppurtunity

dissapointment = oppurtunity to build character

I think he'll be OK............

He still has you to tussel with

Yeah Florida,You're right. 

Yeah Florida,

You're right.  I still have to tussel with RJ. 

Not too difficult as you've discovered for yourself today.

"with half my brain tied behind my back"

ha.  and I do that with half my brain tied behind my back just to make it fair... (the floor is now open for "half-wit" jokes)   ;^>

R is short for Rush?

R is short for Rush?

Hubris?

Hey Leon. Why do you have to use strange words like that. Why not use inflated ego, or pride so the rest of us know what you're saying? Some of us are just getting comfortable with the dictionary. Or is it the thesaurus. Or is that an extinct animal...

Ha KB, Sorry about that!  Ne

Ha KB,

Sorry about that!  Next time I'll be more descriptive :)

Speaking of people that are still getting comfortable with the dictionary, remind me to never go to Texas

Leon, do not be so quick to j

Leon, do not be so quick to judge.  You might want to wait to hear "the rest of the story". 

btw: not only is TX a homeschool haven because the government stays out, and TX was the biggest contributor to Katrina victims.  Unfortunately, many have overstayed their welcome.

Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America. – Al Gore

Thank you vrwc!

And Mr "I want to Learn" disapears after facts appear.

Thank you vrwc! That can of Troll-Be-Gone did the trick! :-)

Free, facts are fun and usefu

Free, facts are fun and useful too.  Problem sometimes is libs faced with facts respond with "well your'e just stupid".  Plus many libs today prescribe to uncle al's mantra: "Yeah, logic, reason, facts play less of a role now in the way we make decisions in America." – Al Gore

btw, you can call me "vr", all my NB buddy's do!

"You routinely write lon

"You routinely write long rambling screeds that are off topic and an intentional attempt to avoid actual debate."

Leon, personally I respect your posts, though I do not agree with many of them, but please, do not accuse someone of posting long, rambling screeds in the middle of a LONG, RAMBLING SCREED. ;>)

'tis true, RESTLESS

'tis true, RESTLESS, and funny, too.   I pointed out the same thing, but Leon didn't seem to see the ironic humor.....

Leon: You're wrong about RJ.

Leon: You're wrong about RJ. You must just rub him the wrong way. RJ likes to tell it like it is. And he does so in a succint and intelligent manner. JMO I don't know you very well. I'm not really what you'd consider a "regular", but I've been a member for a year or so. I tend to come and go at this point in time. But I have a good deal of respect for RJ. And I find it childish of you to suggest that his time has come and gone and arrogant for you to suggest that you somehow represent NewsBusters and/or the "people on here".

Sorry I had to say this. I do enjoy your company.

We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria

Yeah we've had some good disc

Yeah we've had some good discussion Airforce.

Again, I disagree with most of the NB's on social issues, but for the most part, we all agree on one thing:

We hate incompetence.  Regardless of what party it comes from. 

Take lessons from Balboa?Nah,

Take lessons from Balboa?

Nah, I don't want to be a one line joke master. 

Balboa used to debate, but you guys neutered him.  Now he just goes around making lame jokes.  Pandering to the regulars.

He's forgotten why he came here in the first place.