You know, it seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. Stuffing secret documents down your pants and removing them from a secure room in a federal facility, that constitutes stealing.
USA Today's "On Deadline" blog isn't sure, though. (bold/italics are USA Today's):
Sandy Berger, the national security adviser under former President Clinton, was disbarred yesterday in the District of Columbia.
The Washington Post says Berger agreed last month to give up his law license in order to avoid a prolonged investigation that grew out of his conviction in 2005 of removing classified documents from the National Archives.
"While I derived great satisfaction from years of practicing law, I have not done so for 15 years and do not envision returning to the profession," Berger said in a statement. "I am very sorry for what I did, and deeply apologize."
We debated whether to characterize Berger's actions as "stealing." What do you think?
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Definition of stealing: to
June 8, 2007 - 09:32 ET by CapitalismRulesDefinition of stealing:
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force
Seems to fit the pattern of Sandy's actions. But it seems whenever the Clintons are involved, it is always a semantics game. Sex is not sex, steal is not steal, "is" is not "is"........
C'mon, CR! How many times hav
June 8, 2007 - 12:01 ET by Mica the MagnificentC'mon, CR! How many times have you visited the National Archives and come home only to be shocked to have your wife point out to you that you have secret documents stuffed into your socks? Happens to me all the time.
Are those secret documents stuffed in your pants, or are you just happy to see me? - - Sandy's wife
Good Point Mica
June 8, 2007 - 12:06 ET by Cool ArrowYeah, it's like during the great Potato Famine in Ireland when I came home drunk one night and my wife says. "You have a potato stuffed in your underwear! I know where you've been. You've been to the National Archives"!
Boy howdy, I was soooo busted!
I hope the potato was stuffed
June 8, 2007 - 12:11 ET by Mica the MagnificentI hope the potato was stuffed in the front of your underwear!
This Spud's for you
June 8, 2007 - 12:19 ET by Cool ArrowNaturally. In the back is known as 'Ugh rotten"
"While I derived great
June 8, 2007 - 09:33 ET by The Wicked Conservative"While I derived great satisfaction from years of practicing law, I
have not done so for 15 years and do not envision returning to the
profession,"
Well we've really struck the fear of God in this man with such a harsh punishment.
We're too busy being completely up in arms about Paris getting out of jail to be bothered by this.
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
Well, there's "rob,&qu
June 8, 2007 - 09:35 ET by sarcasmoWell, there's "rob," "purloin," "swipe," "grab," "sneak," "snag," "burglarize," "rip off," "loot," "pillage," "plunder," "defraud," "fleece," gyp," "rook," "swindle," and no-doubt other words; so why just use one like "steal"?
JMR
If I, as an MI officer had do
June 8, 2007 - 09:38 ET by BDIf I, as an MI officer had done what Burger did, I would be making big rocks into small rocks at Leavenworth.
Why did he get special consideration?
Politics have turned him in
June 8, 2007 - 09:41 ET by sarcasmoPolitics have turned him into Paris Hilton. (We know there are problems with the US legal system when Al Sharpton starts sounding halfway sensible!)
JMR
Roy Black kicks Laura Ingrahams butt on Lauer
June 8, 2007 - 15:03 ET by SportPoliticsRoy Black kicked Laura's angry culture warrior idiot yap this morning. Lauer didn't like it either.
" Noone else gets 45 days in jail for driving on a suspended license. "
Well, Matty and jealous angry Laura and all the other jackasses think they can force an especially harsh sentence on Paris Hilton because she is beautiful and rich and inherited a fortune. They absolutely hate her, since they had to work for it and are UGLY in comparison.
So, the whole insane over the top punishment spree continues.
I hope Hilton sues the crud out of the LA system and most of the TV shows babbling their BS filled insane Paris Derangement Syndrome.
Here we have supposedly conservative republicans UNWILLING to acknowledge the facts and instead, like piece of crap liberals, demanding they get their way with Hilton while they lie their yapper off to us on TV.
SCREW EM. They lie to us about Paris while they make every show a 15 minute advertisement for her, and havfe been doing it for years, boosting their ratings.
Deranged republicans are just as filthy as democrats, give them a chance and they fall flat on their faces filled with jealous hatred, the kind they say two Americas democrats have corrupted the USA with. Well, yeah, it certainly appears so, and your false immunity has run out.
If Sandy Berger was a hot rich little interitence queen, he'd probably be sitting in Leveanworth for 15 years right now, but NO republican on TV can ever get as outraged at Berger as they are at Paris Hilton, even as she did SOME jailtime when others in her EXACT SAME charges position do not.
Piece of crap emotional blowhard culture warrior LIARS.
Hey, here's the lesson you taught you stupid hypocrits:
When it comes to INJUSTICE and insane jealousy, the democrats at least are UP FRONT AND HONEST about their uncontrollable urges and feelings - but you dirty low down unequal justice under the law scumbag loser republicans need someone like Paris Hilton to DRAW IT OUT OF YOU in full grotesque bloom.
No kidding. I think Sandy Bur
June 8, 2007 - 09:46 ET by Sergeant ROCKNo kidding. I think Sandy Burglar should be sent to one of those 'secret' prisons in Europe for interrogation.
Normally, no stone would be l
June 8, 2007 - 10:08 ET by BDNormally, no stone would be left unturned to determine what had happened and what classified information specifically had been breached. It seems to me that they just took him at his word. Something they should not do, nor would do for me.
Now, compare this to the reac
June 8, 2007 - 10:25 ET by Sergeant ROCKNow, compare this to the reaction Watergate received. And there were no documents relating to national security there.
This seems to be yet another demonstration by this administration to rehabilitate Klinton and his cronies. All for the sake of getting along with those that seek your destruction.
Slimey Sandy
June 8, 2007 - 09:39 ET by KopykingI ascribe to the belief that he copped the plea so there wouldn't be an in-depth investigation into what documents he stole. Since protection and distance are the bywords in the Clinton Clan, falling on a rubber sword seems plausible.
Benedict Arnold Berger
June 8, 2007 - 09:39 ET by Cool ArrowTo abscond with documents for the purpose of obstructing arguably the most important investigation of our lifetime.
No, I don't think stealing quite measures up to the cowardly act Sandy Berger committed.
Could we call it "misappropriation of information to fulfill one's worship of Benedict Arnold"?
I can't believe the cowards i
June 8, 2007 - 09:43 ET by Sergeant ROCKI can't believe the cowards in the Justice Department. Good job!
At least we got that traitorous Scooter Libby convicted! (roll eyes)
All he did was say he wasent
June 8, 2007 - 10:00 ET by bassndudeAll he did was say he wasent going to do what he hasent been doing. Never said he would not do it again. Where is his punishment? Why isint he in the slammer? Why is he walking around without chains and pin stripes?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Why is he walking around, per
June 8, 2007 - 11:51 ET by mattmWhy is he walking around, period?
He could easily (and should) have been tried for treason and executed. Stealing classified intelligence documents is an act of treason.
Calling him a thief is rather
June 8, 2007 - 10:17 ET by general companyCalling him a thief is rather harsh,,,,,,,,, after all he is a Democrat?
It has always made me wonder what he has got away with stealing?
PC term
June 8, 2007 - 10:25 ET by LionKingI dunno...is the current PC term for lying and stealing ... CLINTON?
USA TODAY: "We debated
June 8, 2007 - 10:23 ET by GalvanicUSA TODAY: "We debated whether to charactrerize Berger's actions as 'stealing.' What do you think?"
Say what?! USA-T can't be serious, can they? What is there in Berger's felony that does NOT constitute theft? One must be a moral idiot and totally ignorant of the law not to recognize Berger's action as stealing!
Berger should have been prosecuted for theft, unlawful tranport and destruction of highly classified government documents, and obstructing an investigation (The 9/11 Commission). Then, they should've thrown him in jail for at least 5 years.
I'm still wondering (see abov
June 8, 2007 - 10:27 ET by sarcasmoI'm still wondering (see above...) what other words were debated?
JMR
So, they're asking for help t
June 8, 2007 - 10:33 ET by Sergeant ROCKSo, they're asking for help to 'spin' the story??? Now that's funny.
What are they debating about,
June 8, 2007 - 10:47 ET by Senior ChiefWhat are they debating about, even sandy burglar acknowledged it in this article. Are leftoids not capable of correctly discerning stories or "news"? No, I'm asking a wrong question?
WHAT the #%*$
June 8, 2007 - 10:57 ET by c5thenYes! It was, is and shall ever be, stealing when you remove something without permission and never give it back. He friggin' stole documents and then destroyed them. He is not only guilty of stealing, but of a "crime against history".
The ONLY reason that USA Today fails to characterize it as such is for purely political ideaological reasons.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
The "stealing" debate thus far
June 8, 2007 - 11:05 ET by Cool ArrowI thought the debate was over
June 8, 2007 - 11:06 ET by ViperI thought the debate was over......
Wait.... that's the other con
June 8, 2007 - 11:12 ET by ViperWait.... that's the other consensus....
Viper, you thought wrong
June 8, 2007 - 11:12 ET by Cool ArrowRiled One: Viper, you thought wrong.
Viper: Did not
Riled One: Did so.
Viper: Did not
Good debate, huh?
Did so Riled One....It certai
June 8, 2007 - 11:26 ET by ViperDid so Riled One....
It certainly should be stunning that this event has went the way it has, but we have been bombarded with relentless spin and the MSM's "indoctrination" that even our justice department has been successfully neutered.
There's the rub, Viper
June 8, 2007 - 11:31 ET by Cool ArrowOur legal establishment is so fixated on the "cute" that they won't address the obvious.
Spin has so entered the law as to render it senseless. And our supposed defense against despotic rule, the press, plays favorites to the point they will not even state the obvious. It's sad.
Like it has been said, What
June 8, 2007 - 11:44 ET by ViperLike it has been said, What if this was you or me that had been "caught on tape"? I think the outcome for us is quite obvious. It would not be up for debate, much less receiving a get out of jail free card!
You are correct, it is truly sad.
It will be interesting to watch how the case goes with Senator William Jefferson (D Louisiana)
Jefferson's defense
June 8, 2007 - 11:48 ET by Cool ArrowI think it's already tilting towards: "We really need this great man to lead us out of the Katrina disaster George Bush got us into".
And all I can think of to res
June 8, 2007 - 11:52 ET by ViperAnd all I can think of to respond to that quote is one from Forest Gump.
"Stupid Is As Stupid Does"
Have a great rest of your day.
Burglar vs Libby
June 8, 2007 - 13:21 ET by PawpawNQuite a justice system we have in DC. How would the normal AMERICAN vote on these two if were jury trial!!
The bigger question is , why
June 8, 2007 - 16:45 ET by general companyThe bigger question is , why wasnt it a jury trial?
"While I derived great s
June 8, 2007 - 13:30 ET by bigtimer"While I derived great satisfaction from years of practicing law, I have not done so for 15 years and do not envision returning to the profession," Berger said in a statement. "I am very sorry for what I did, and deeply apologize."
Ahhh isn't that special....wonder why that couldn't work for the atrocious crime Libby got convicted of...
Oh yeah...wait a second...now I remember....he is connected to Cheney and the Bush administration....doesn't have a chance.
Sandy Berg[l]er STOLE the d
June 8, 2007 - 14:50 ET by daveinbocaSandy Berg[l]er STOLE the documents in question, and their destination is still unknown. He did so because the 9/11 Committee was going to review some of the horrendously bad decisions he and his boss Billy Jeff made that led to the WTC and Pentagon disasters. So Sandy stole the documents in question, and we will never know if they indicate criminal malfeasance by ClyntOOn and His Merry Men, will we? And the media will accept Billy Jeff and Sandy's word that nothing was amiss in the disappeared documents.
This is a national scandal of
June 8, 2007 - 20:20 ET by Atomic CrusaderThis is a national scandal of extreme proportions, justice has not been served.
Where's the media bias? So
June 8, 2007 - 21:24 ET by Roger the ShrubberSorry. I haven't done that for a long time.
In a future memoir, I suggest
June 8, 2007 - 23:11 ET by m4ster chiefIn a future memoir, I suggest Berger will reveal that he was quietly in the employ of Hillary's presidential campaign, and was performing a service for her and Bill when he purloined the documents.
In losing his law license, advocates can always use the arguement that he has been "punished enough" should some headline-grabbing prosecutor attempt to indict him. He'll escape real, meaningful charges...and therefore have an "official" clean bill of health when Hillary nominates Berger as her new White House chief-of-staff.
Now why would Hillary, supposedly the "smartest woman in the world," nominate a damaged item such as Berger to a sensitive post like Chief of Staff? Well...Berger just might be in possession of several little black notebooks, documents, maybe some tape recordings, or even videotapes...hmmmm...worth some thought.
Just my opinion.