ABC's Charles Gibson fretted Thursday night over the likely impending demise of the “landmark” immigration deal as George Stephanopoulos blamed conservatives and on NBC Chip Reid faulted “extremes on the left and the right.” Gibson teased World News: “Tonight, the landmark compromise on immigration is in big trouble on Capitol Hill. Some Senators saying if we can't pass this, we can't pass anything.” Gibson proceeded to assert that the bill “was considered the best hope for doing something on immigration.” After a story from Jake Tapper on the debate in the Senate, Gibson expressed frustration to George Stephanopoulos: “What's so counterintuitive to me, George, is that a lot of the Senators who think and say most strongly that something has to be done to reform immigration are the ones who are voting for these killer amendments.” Stephanopoulos held conservatives responsible: “They are getting a lot of cross pressures, Charlie, particularly on the conservative side.”
Meanwhile, on the NBC Nightly News, Chip Reid described how Democrats are opposed to the temporary worker program because of how it may take jobs from Americans and Republicans are opposed to what they consider “amnesty” for illegals -- both mainstream views in the two parties. Yet Reid applied an “extreme” tag: “You've got the extremes on the left and the right trying to kill the entire bill, rather than except the provisions they detest.”
The immigration deal has received virtually no broadcast network evening newscast coverage over the past few weeks and the CBS Evening News matched the priority by limiting its coverage to this short item from Katie Couric:
“That compromise immigration bill in the Senate is in trouble tonight. There's a crucial test vote scheduled, and if it fails the bill could be dead, at least for the time being. Supporters spent the day trying to salvage the deal which would tighten the borders while giving millions of illegal immigrants a path towards legal status.”
The MRC's Brad Wilmouth corrected the closed-captioning against the video to provide this transcript from the June 7 World News with Charles Gibson on ABC:
CHARLES GIBSON: Good evening. Many legislators on Capitol Hill agree that something has to be done on the issue of immigration reform, but that's about all they agree on. A proposal put forth three weeks ago to tighten border security, create a guest worker program, and give most of the nation's 12 million illegal immigrants a path to citizenship was considered the best hope for doing something on immigration. But ever since, a chorus of objections to the bill have been raised, and tonight it is in very big trouble.[Story from Jake Tapper]
GIBSON: George, everyone seems to agree that if you can't pass this version of an immigration bill, then nothing's going to pass. Correct?
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, IN DC: Oh, Charlie, this is the last chance. There is no question about that. Every day we get closer to the next election means the chances of passing a new immigration bill go down. But, Charlie, just as we were going on the air, I got contacted by two Democratic sources who do say now they believe they're making tentative steps toward working out a deal to proceed tonight.
GIBSON: But what's so counterintuitive to me, George, is that a lot of the Senators who think and say most strongly that something has to be done to reform immigration are the ones who are voting for these killer amendments.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's right. They are getting a lot of cross pressures, Charlie, particularly on the conservative side. President Bush has seen his approval rating on this issue drop by about 16 points among conservatives over the last couple of weeks. They are hearing a boatload from people back home. They're really getting a lot of complaints about this bill, and they're walking away from the deal.
GIBSON: Now, you say that even in the last few minutes there is an attempt to salvage this in the Senate, but even if they do that, the sledding looks even tougher on the House side, right?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Always has been, Charlie. The Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, has said that they need 60 to 70 Republican votes in order to get this through the House. Right now, sources on both sides -- Republican and Democrat -- agree there are no more than 40 Republican votes for this deal.
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
they need 60 to 70 Republican
June 7, 2007 - 20:46 ET bythey need 60 to 70 Republican votes in order to get this through the House. Right now, sources on both sides -- Republican and Democrat -- agree there are no more than 40 Republican votes for this deal
time to call your republican reps and make sure none change their votes
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I love how the media is ignor
June 7, 2007 - 21:02 ET by jay_1975I love how the media is ignoring the fact that Democrats are voting against this bill as well. Since they have their majority that they lied their way into, it sould be no problem to pass this bill (especially with McCain voting right along with it). They also choose to ignore the fact that the vote to make English the national language did pass their test votes. The fact is that this bill is the wrong way to go about our immigration problems. It is time to close the borders and start to round up those that choose to ignore our laws and say "thanks for the hard work" and send them home.
That's right, jay....they h
June 8, 2007 - 06:50 ET by motherbeltThat's right, jay....they have the majority. If every Democrat had voted for the bill, it would have passed without a single Republican vote. But you know, they have to blame it on those evil ("Why do you hate Mexicans?") Republicans.
edit: and they certainly won't admit that the English/official language item passed their test vote, because they don't even want to bring that up for a real vote. Because then people will know Democrats voted for it too, and they won't be able to blame those "hateful" Republicans.
Ha! Ha! Ha! You are dead-on.
June 8, 2007 - 09:17 ET by Sergeant ROCKHa! Ha! Ha! You are dead-on. Talk about SPIN? Republicans are in the minority and yet they are to blame?!
immigration
June 8, 2007 - 10:30 ET by misterbillI am extracting from the Center for Immigration studies by Fredo Arias-King. This is the game "professional" politicians are playing, both Democratic and Republican. It is a strong case for term limits.
I have always wondered why political actions in Latino countries are so volatile and so violent. I am beginning to understand.
"These legislators are probably correct that, by acquiescing to mass immigration, they will eventually "crack" the immigration-control advocates. They do not need to win or even engage in a debate if they can change the terms of the game so decisively. However, they have only taken into account the legal or civilized resistance—from those who write in the papers or volunteer peacefully at the border. In Latin America, people engage in un-civil direct action because they have come to realize that attempting to convince their elites that their antisocial behavior has adverse consequences for the country—and expecting that this will dissuade them from engaging in it—is largely a futile exercise. But in the United States as well, once immigration-control advocates realize they cannot reach their goals through legal means, this could breed a form of resistance that has not occurred yet, but cannot be discounted offhand."
Immigration---more by Fredo Arias-King
June 8, 2007 - 10:48 ET by misterbillImmigration---more by Fredo Arias-King---
"Even though the Mexican political class is notoriously corrupt, they can often count on stronger support in Washington than can several more worthy world leaders who are genuinely attempting to reform and improve their countries. The history of the Bush family is symptomatic."
One more immigration excerpt---Wake up, America!!
June 8, 2007 - 11:03 ET by misterbillI cannot believe how much I have learned from Fredo Arias-King from just one of his articles. He confirms all my beliefs. Our elected officials need to be replaced. Term limits need to be created for ALL elected officials. And, by Heaven , it is needed just as much for the Supreme Court. There should be a mandatory retirement age for the SCOTUS. (65?) I honestly believe that if our Senate and Congress keep polluting the American ethos to satisfy their power hunger, there will be insurrection in America. Arias-King's article is rather long , but it contains a lot more information that helps understand and teach that at the present time in America. a war is building up between the public and the politicians.
"If an organizeable mass of Americans comes to suspect that mass immigration from Latin America is being used by the political class to undermine their democracy and as a tool to liberate the political elites from the Jeffersonian and Madisonian constraints, then indeed we may witness a reaction—but hopefully not against the immigrants themselves, as they are also objects of elite manipulations in more than one country.
The Founding Fathers also prescribed a cure for usurpation. Hopefully the American people will not apply it so literally, for the sake of those
legislators."
This is my country, I am willing to fight and die to keep it free. I want it to be the country that was intended by our Founding Fathers.
If this thing passes- it will
June 8, 2007 - 15:47 ET by CapitalismRulesIf this thing passes- it will be a victory for democrats. If this thing fails- it will be a defeat for president Bush. There can be no two ways about this. Overall however, it's fun to watch the media once again yell at the American people like we are little dumb children instead of just reporting the news.
Good place to put this at the
June 7, 2007 - 20:48 ET by bigtimerGood place to put this at the moment...they are voting on Cloture right now..it is not going to make it whatsoever by my count so far.
The Illegal Immigration Bill is going to be pulled for the year....or so he has stated...(I will listen after the vote is done to see what Ol' Fearless Leader Harry has to whisper with gusto...lol)
Thank God...and all of America's voices that were heard!
So fret all you want ABC and the rest of the leftists in the media and any other venue.
My suggestion to all you congress critters is start with a separate Bill to fence off the border....you simpleton's.
bt... I now want a fence t
June 7, 2007 - 20:50 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
I now want a fence that stretches along the whole of our southern border. Then I want our government to PROVE they can secure our borders. Until they do the above, I don't want any other bill to even be discussed!!!
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
BT/CT How about some enforce
June 7, 2007 - 20:56 ET byBT/CT
How about some enforcement? Lets start by targeting any business with more than 5 social security numbers that don't match the name.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Enforcement is great, but I w
June 7, 2007 - 20:58 ET by Clear thinkerEnforcement is great, but I want the flood stopped NOW!
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
Send in the guard. This time
June 7, 2007 - 21:00 ET bySend in the guard. This time with bullets.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
with bullets
June 8, 2007 - 01:24 ET by tumblerSURE;
Now give Mexicans bullets. I'm feeling so very sorry for our country after seeing this demonstration of hatred, and the rabid activity so brazenly shown all the world over a badly-drawn congressional bill.
Not because an attempt at amnesty has been blocked. That's only to be expected. No one blames the American citizen if he wants border enforcement per se.
I feel badly because of the glaring exhibition by our outraged Right-wing, for which the clear label of racist has to be accepted, it's now officially admitted to anyone with a conscience;
We placed it on ourselves. It fits. And even after a measured success, we still have Bozoes like this one, "bo" of tg; saying let's "do it with bullets." It wasn't enough for him to get Congress to cave; he still suggests violence and MORE hatred. When they refer to Republicans as blatant racists now; how we going to deny it ? Who'll believe this isn't racism and hatred ?
botg said nothing about Mexic
June 8, 2007 - 06:25 ET by Khyrisbotg said nothing about Mexicans. You did.
Bullets are not racists, they are an equal-opportunity deterrent/enforcement measure.
Whether force is regrettably necessary or not is open for discussion, but no one is stating that it should ONLY be used against illegals of a specific given race.
Republicans don't "hate" illegal immigrants any more than they "hate" theives. They do however expect that they will be treated as criminals, no matter WHAT country they came from, no matter what color or creed they happen to be.
It's called equal protection... it's in the constitution...
Your argumentative style is purely circular logic... you assume that Republicans are only interested in preventing illegal immigration from Mexico. Then when their policies happen to affect illegal immigrants from Mexico, you declare this "proof" of a racist conspiracy. Mexico happens to be the largest source of illegal immigrants... therefore it's not racism, that's simply statistical probability.
Allow me to explain it as I would to a child: If I assume that only trees cause me to fart, and then walk into a forest and fart, the fact that I would probably be standing near a tree at the time is not proof that the trees had anything to do with my gastrointestinal expulsion. It pays no attention to the equal likely hood that I'd need to toot if I was in an urban city where trees are a half mile apart. Therefore we have what is called a "faulty premise."
Tumbler Will Never Understand
June 8, 2007 - 10:42 ET by emjem24Khyris,
Good on you to take on Tumbler. Many just ignore him because he's incapable of understanding the antipathy and betrayal many of us feel about the shamnesty bill. He doesn't understand how we're all tied by culture, language, and heritage which is slowly being eroded by the selfish, criminal opportunism of illegal immigrants.
Tumbler hasn't been honest with either himself or any of us in a long time just as politicians aren't. When we as a country can only come up with a new guise in the form of this bill to handle the illegal/criminal alien flow of immigration, then there is something inherently wrong with the system. When illegals think they're entitled to citizenship rights they never earned while criminally traipsing across the border, you know we as a country have passively taken a seat and looked the other way. It's not so bad. Not really.
When the jobs dry up, when the cities become so congested that it takes an hour just to commute to them (look at places like LA/CA where many people are leaving because illegal aliens have diminished their quality of life), when suburban areas can't hold the excess flow of people, when resources get depleted (water, energy, etc.), when public entitlement programs (public education, medicare/medicaid, and social security) become overrun that it becomes impossible for native born Americans to access those resources, perhaps Americans will pay attention. More and more, we find ourselves having to pay with bonds and tax dollars to build more schools and hospitals that we never needed to build if we had gotten serious about immigration and stabilized our population growth. We were never meant to have this large a population and most of the Western, industrialized world has stabilized their populations. The kind of population that's occured from 1970-2007 is the kind you see in THIRD WORLD countries, not Western, industrialized nations. In 50 years, this will be on the horizon. If illegal/foreign immigration remains unchecked we will no longer be a country of 300 million people, we'll be a country of 500 some odd million people.
No, Tumbler savors old hurts to such a degree that his view has become not only entrenched it's become colored by his own personal drama. It's time for all Americans, regardless of political affiliation, color, race, gender, etc., to get real about immigration. No cosmetic bill will make the situation more palatable. No surface solution will solve the deeper problem that Big Business would rather employ cheap labor to pick their fruit and work in their sweatshops. No, Geraldo Rivera, it's not just the poor immigrant breaking the law we go after it's the employers too.
Until America wakes the hell up and realizes that our whole way of life is being taken away by Mexico's willful disregard for our laws and their own inability of enacting strong population control measures and exporting poor people they're not interested in helping, we'll all suffer in small and big ways. The next time you enroll your kid in a public school only to be told there's no room for them because the illegal alien kids have preferential treatment, wait for hours behind illegal aliens for emergency treatment in an ER, and see your water resources being rationed further because more and more illegals have moved in. Some of this has happened NOW. It's not our responsibility to take care of the THIRD WORLD when they won't lift a finger and do it themselves.
No, it's time to massively deport these people where they belong...Mexico. We can do it through what's called attrition through law enforcement. The more we clamp down on illegal immigration the more illegals will get a clue and voluntarily deport themselves. It's time for Mexico to deal with their own problems and stop exporting them to us. It's also time to close the borders...ALL OF THEM. They were supposed to be closed in perpetuity during the last century but that promise was never kept.
For more information, please go to the Numbers USA website where they've done not only population statistical analysis (both real and future time) but research into how illegal immigration affects all of us. Sorry this is so long.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
"hatred"?Just bec
June 8, 2007 - 11:14 ET by StogieGuy"hatred"?
Just because you are clearly too dense to understand what is being said here is no excuse to toss ridiculous words like this around. Obviously, you cannot make a cogent arguement in favor of an intellectually corrupt point of view - so you toss out words such as "hatred" and "racism" in a lame attempt to squelch the opinions that you do not agree with.
Riddle me this: Why is it okay for every other country on Earth to control their borders and immigration processes - yet we are somehow horrible for wanting to do the same?
Here's an idea tumbler....
Why don't YOU sneak into Mexico and demand free medical care, attendance at a national university, and a stipend to help you to live in Acapulco? What do you think would happen? How about JAIL. Yet the Mexicans are the loudest protesters when it comes to our (lame) attempts to control the border.
If you knew ANYTHING about the immigration issue or what is happening at the border, you would quietly slink away from this.
Another question for you: What do you think the Canadians would do to you if you snuck in there and stayed?
Guess what? Those *Hateful* and *Racist* Canadians would toss you out. Tell me, why is that ok (because, according to libs like you, they can do no wrong) for them and not for us?
You see, your "open borders" argument is idiotic. You have no point, you are wrong, you know it, which is why you toss labels out there in some lame-o attempt to make people feel guilty.
Well I am really tired of it and so are many others. If that's the best you can do, maybe you should go over to that remedial reading room known as the Huffington Post.
Maybe you can hang out with the president while you're there - it seems to be where he is getting his ideas from these days.
yeah, StoogieGuy
June 8, 2007 - 16:06 ET by tumblerOh, sure. Pardon me; when a Doofus here says, "Send the Nat'l Guard, give them BULLETS if they come crossing,"
That's just joshing --? ? ? And you call ME dense ? The place is crawling with so-called Americans who feel they have the right to shoot on sight every peon who dares "invade" their turf. I call it racism. Not by accident, either. Whether or not YOU are a racist is undecided. But keep in mind; my efforts here have always been to give good counsel. Lose the hatred. Lose the fury and demonizing and defamation. Do what's possible to enforce our laws without inciting good Americans to racial injustice; HATRED.
I say "so-called Americans" because I was taught from childhood this is the land of the Free; a haven in which hard work would always be rewarded. The greatest nation ever to exist on earth. And NOW I'm confronted by "Americans" who act like LORDS, not friends of the poor. LORDS, not understanding and generous to others. --Is it American to say, "Let's shoot 'em, blow 'em away, kill unarmed men and women ?" That's done in North Korea. That's the world of communism and totalitarianism. NOT America, Stoge. I said racist, I meant it, My Friend.
"The place is crawling with s
June 8, 2007 - 17:51 ET by Khyris"The place is crawling with so-called Americans who feel they have the right to shoot on sight every peon who dares "invade" their turf. I call it racism."
I call it personal property, which no government or individual may deprive you of without due process. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are avoiding the process. I call it trespassing, which very well can get you shot, even if you're a citizen. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what race you are.
I have no fury, I'm not demonizing any race. I am actually quite alright with the idea of allowing anyone who wants to become a citizen to become one. Prove that you are who you say you are, pass a criminal background check, and get added to the system so that you pay your fair share of taxes. It's not a difficult concept.
Some may argue that we need to close the borders or restrict immigration in a concern for civil and economic infrastructure. That's debatable. What's not debatable is the ludicrous assertion that we would only restrict the immigration of a specific race. It may not be their fault that they were born in another country that wasn't as prosperous as ours, but you have to at least be open to the idea that it's not our fault either. We are NOT obligated to bend over backwards for anyone because of their race, no matter how "nice" it would be if we did. I could send you $20 in the mail, but I'm not going to; and that doesn't mean I hate you, nor does it mean I consider myself your LORD, nor does it mean I'm a racist, since obviously I don't have any idea what race you are.
I think you need to look up the word racism in a dictionary, because although you use it, you have no clue what it means. Giving a specific ethinicity preferential treatment is just as prejudiced as giving them detrimental treatment.
Congratulations tumbler, you've just proven that you're a racist.
nonsense, khyris
June 8, 2007 - 18:22 ET by tumbler"--no government or individual may deprive you of [personal property] without due process. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are avoiding the process." REPLY: So, the U.S. is your "personal property," hmmm? OK; wanta sell the U.S. to the highest bidder, Khy ? Want to spend your remaining days in the booby hatch ? America's NOT your property.
"I call it trespassing, which very well can get you shot, even if you're a citizen. And that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what race you are." REPLY: Trespassing on YOUR property ? SHOT ? And I'm unarmed, isn't that cold-blooded murder ? Oh, well. Go ahead, blow me away. (BTW, I'm hispanic-American. Unarmed.)
"I have no fury, I'm not demonizing any race. I am actually quite alright with the idea of allowing anyone who wants to become a citizen to become one. Prove that you are who you say you are, pass a criminal background check, and get added to the system so that you pay your fair share of taxes. It's not a difficult concept." REPLY: I understood it (this concept) all since you were in your Pampers, Khy. But anyway, thanks.
"Some may argue that we need to close the borders or restrict immigration in a concern for civil and economic infrastructure. That's debatable. What's not debatable is the ludicrous assertion that we would only restrict the immigration of a specific race. It may not be their fault that they were born in another country that wasn't as prosperous as ours, but you have to at least be open to the idea that it's not our fault either. We are NOT obligated to bend over backwards for anyone because of their race, no matter how "nice" it would be if we did. I could send you $20 in the mail, but I'm not going to," REPLY: Why are you running off at the (cyber) mouth ? Are you open to the idea of saving the lecture ? I AM. " --and that doesn't mean I hate you, nor does it mean I consider myself your LORD, nor does it mean I'm a racist, since obviously I don't have any idea what race you are." REPLY: My God, that's a relief. Oh, I don't know your race either. Does it disqualify me in this argument ?
"I think you need to look up the word racism in a dictionary, because although you use it, you have no clue what it means. Giving a specific ethinicity preferential treatment is just as prejudiced as giving them detrimental treatment." REPLY: Thanks, Khyris; for the swell condescension to just another silly male. Why do I suspect you're a man-hating feminist with too much time on your hands ?
" Congratulations tumbler, you've just proven that you're a racist." REPLY: Wait a minute ! Let me check my dictionary before you label me. You mot be mistaken. Which specific ethnicity is it you refer to ? Is it one of those unfortunate Rag Men seen in your new "Where's The Fence" ad ? You mean "Greasers"--? Yeah; I think you do.
Line by line. No the U.S.
June 8, 2007 - 19:51 ET by KhyrisLine by line.
No the U.S. as a whole is not private property. You misunderstand the representation of "personal property" as a concept. I did not say private property. Whether property is owned by the public or a private individual is not relevent... in either case it is within the laws of the United States to defend the rights of the owner by force. That means shooting a trespasser on private property by the owner, or public property by law enforcement, in most cases, is perfectly legal. If you want to get really technical, since you've decided to reduce this to nit-picking of semantics, illegal aliens COULD be qualified under the code of military justice as non-uniformed enemy combatants, armed or not. As a "hostile" individual, so deemed by the manner in which they wilfully impune the sovereignty of U.S. borders, they could be executed. But we don't do that. Why not? Because most of us DON'T nit-pick semantics, but are more concerned with the spirit of laws.
No, it wouldn't be cold-blooded murder IF we were doing it (which we're not), it's legally defined. But you've totally avoided the entire point; the fact that you COULD be shot has NOTHING to do with race or even citizenship. You neglect to comment on that.
A trite barb at my age (of which you obviously have no clue) has nothing to do with the debate. Would it have been too difficult to just say that you agree with the concept? Your personal attack is duly ignored so that I can address the remainder of your argument.
I'm "running off at the cyber mouth" because you disagree with my premise. If you agreed with me, you'd be calling it a well reasoned allegorical point. The idea of "saving the lecture" is rather juxtaposed to the entire purpose of a discussion thread. The purpose is not to belittle, but to offer argument in favor of a counterpoint. What is the point of discussion if one assumes that no opinion will ever be changed? I most certainly do not discourage you from providing factual or anecdotal evidence supporting your claim that border enforcement is a "racist policy". If you have a lecture that has some factual content and logical flow, present it.
The reason you would make such an off-base assumption would be because you have thinly veiled prejudices of your own which you project onto others around you. This is called "transferrance."
You are a racist because you claim that "Mexicans" should be given preferential treatment. The post you replied to mentioned nothing about "Mexicans", but you only voiced concern about "Mexicans" being shot. Similarly the misconnection that when someone uses the term illegal alien that you ASSUME Mexican shows that you have a racist association between the two words. Even your simple association of "Mexican" being a race in the first place is a form of racism, as Mexican is a citizenship, and not an ethnicity. An assumption of race based upon national origin is a kind of racism.
This debate is not about you personally, it is about unfairly labeling policy, which affects ALL violaters equally, as "racist". If murder is illegal in Mexico, and 95% (a number I chose arbitrarily) of murderers convicted in Mexico are hispanic, is the murder law then "racist" against hispanics? No, it's not "racist," it's statistical probability. Can you find any fault in this parallel example?
Tumbler racist does not fit
June 8, 2007 - 11:14 ET by Cool ArrowI disagree. I think those who were looking for a racist angle already had the turf staked out.
When the Asian, Polish, Irish, and German waves combined do not total the last 40 years of Mexican immigration, and increasingly the Mexican wave demands rather than assimilates, Americans have a right to stem the tide in the interest of preservation. It's not racism. It's business.
45/50 for Cloture Failed!Yaho
June 7, 2007 - 20:58 ET by bigtimer45/50 for Cloture Failed!
Yahoo!
bt,That's Great news, but
June 7, 2007 - 21:03 ET by Dave Rbt,
That's Great news, but I won't be satisfied until George & Teddy's bastard child is dead and burried. For good!
Where's The Fence, George?
Hey Dave...I thought you were
June 7, 2007 - 21:22 ET by bigtimerHey Dave...
I thought you were going to rally at Chambliss' office or such this evening, did ya?
I have worked the good ol' phone as much as possible if you can get through that is...lol!
Harry Baby is whining and snifflin' on the floor right now...he will at some time put aside his hurt feelings and reconsider the Bill....he also had the audacity to say a small group of people here in the building do not want this to pass...but the outside world want this bill to pass..he is absolutely delusional.
He had 10 Dem's vote against Cloture on him.... the whining simpering little fool.
He says he is a Creature of the Senate....that is the only realistic statement he has made.
bt,I drove down after work, b
June 7, 2007 - 21:35 ET by Dave Rbt,
I drove down after work, but there wasn't much happening at the time, as it was still early. I did notice a local Spanish radio station setting up near the area, though. That could have been fun. Had to make a dash for the homestead due to AC problem. :-(
Harry Reid is a nut job. I don't know what "outside world" he is referring to, but it is obviously one he doesn't spend much time in.
Where's The Fence, George?
Delusional is right. Thi
June 7, 2007 - 21:37 ET by dahliatraversDelusional is right.
This is not extreme. This bill would demolish our borders and our sovereignty. Period.
All of the Senators who supported this bill now need to go to any other country in the world and try to get a job and a residence visa of unlimited duration. Please call us monthly with progress reports.
dahlia...I love your suggesti
June 7, 2007 - 21:40 ET by bigtimerdahlia...
I love your suggestions...a monthly report would suit me just fine too!
Thanks, bt! To accurately re
June 7, 2007 - 22:20 ET by dahliatraversThanks, bt! To accurately replicate conditions, we're adding botg's requirements (below) to the Senators' assignment.
dahlia... I ditto that..Plus
June 7, 2007 - 22:24 ET by bigtimerdahlia...
I ditto that..
Plus let us throw in having to reside/work with gang members and other felons.
Hi Dahlia, They also need to
June 7, 2007 - 21:50 ET byHi Dahlia,
They also need to do this without any documentation of their true identities while demanding health-care, schooling, and not learn the language of the land.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Wonderful News ------ Go
June 7, 2007 - 21:04 ET byWonderful News
------ Google (equal time rule)
Evening botg,Let's start with
June 7, 2007 - 21:29 ET by bigtimerEvening botg,
Let's start with scanners like retinal eye scanners for real identification for these employers and employees...after they are legal employees in the first place...so we know they are who they say they are.
SS Cards are Bogus....along with other forged papers.
Back at ya BT Sounds good to
June 7, 2007 - 21:33 ET byBack at ya BT
Sounds good to me, i was suggesting an easy way (and impartial) to locate which companies to raid.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Ugh... we don't need a fence
June 8, 2007 - 09:23 ET by Sergeant ROCKUgh... we don't need a fence (which costs $$$), we need to start fining employers (enforcement) who hire illegals and end government handouts for illegals, with one exception - when caught, you still get a free trip to the border.
I don't know why it is that proponents of these amnesty bills think that we should 'deal with it' when it was their lack of enforcement for decades that has brought us this situation in the first damn place.
EXACTLY. I heard Rudy Giul
June 8, 2007 - 21:38 ET by dahliatraversEXACTLY.
I heard Rudy Giuliani today rattling off all of the tracking and enforcement that would be done under the Kennedy-Bush-McCain bill, as a way of talking it up. OUR GOV'T SLACKED OFF ON ALL THAT UNDER THE 1986 LAW. Setting aside the enormous effort and expense of such enforcement, do they seriously expect us to believe they're going to do it under a new law?
Trouble in Shamnesty Land
June 7, 2007 - 21:00 ET by Rihar"Some Senators saying if we can't pass this we can't pass anything"
Hmm. I like the sound of that. Let's make sure this stinker doesn't pass.
When a liberal speaks, the truth is busy elsewhere.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if t
June 7, 2007 - 21:06 ET byWouldn't it be wonderful if the Senate passed no new laws for 18 months? (btw they pass gas just fine)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botg, Yeah, they could send t
June 7, 2007 - 21:10 ET by Dave Rbotg,
Yeah, they could send them all on a fact-finding tour.
To the continent of Atlantis! :-)
Where's The Fence, George?
I Think Lott Said That
June 8, 2007 - 11:03 ET by emjem24Rihar...
I think Sen. Lott from MS is the sole orator of that sorry remark. I bet the people of MS are so pleased with him. I know I'm disappointed in what a pathetic excuse of a illegal immigration appologist he's become. Yeah, no more stinker bills...I'm sure there will be more attempts to pass legal acceptance of law breakers. If that happens...there will be no place these sorry excuses for politicians will be able to hide.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
Well, for once I am beginning
June 7, 2007 - 21:11 ET by JABWell, for once I am beginning to feel like my calls amounted to something after all. I told the Page that answered the phone, my rep. whom has an (R) after his name is committing political suicide. As a small business owner, having many contacts I would ensure him his political carrier was over...BTW, I'm talking Martinez from Florida, for the record.
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
i traded many e-mails with Bo
June 7, 2007 - 21:15 ET byi traded many e-mails with Boxer, talk about tilting at windmills
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Me too JAB! They had no choic
June 7, 2007 - 21:24 ET by bigtimerMe too JAB!
They had no choice but to listen to us out here in the real world this time.
Kennedy and Specter are crying now...lol!
BT, you were part of my inspi
June 7, 2007 - 21:40 ET by JABBT, you were part of my inspiration today, thank you. I was multitasking as I attempted to shut this POS bill down after reading your earlier posts. Team work, sweetie, team work -- it works!
Now, on to my next mission to unseat my Rep. I voted into office. Here I come Mr. Martinez, you shall not serve two terms, I promise you can bank on this one...I hear Walmart is hiring.
Signed,
JAB
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
It's perfect; he can be a gre
June 7, 2007 - 21:44 ET by dahliatraversIt's perfect; he can be a greeter. All the glad handing he did as a politician makes him eminently qualified.
Dahl, LOL, thanks for the alt
June 7, 2007 - 22:11 ET by JABDahl, LOL, thanks for the alternate view, yes, what you said fits him and quite well I might add (I wish I would have thought of that first). :-)
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
Hey JAB, I'm with you on t
June 7, 2007 - 21:49 ET by BlondeHey JAB,
I'm with you on the DEFEAT MEL MARTINEZ thing.
Floridians are idiots (well, not us NATIVE Floridians)....but all of the rest are kind of stupid.
Here in Broward County we turned out (we, not me) an 11 term representative...a senior member of all of the committees...to someone whom all of the transplanted NewYawka's love.
A very junior member of the House (oh, that's useful!!!) and a dem to boot.
Seriously, I am planning for my retirement out of this country. I can afford to have these whackjobs in my pocket now, but later.....no way
Hey Blonde, your the one that
June 7, 2007 - 22:05 ET by JABHey Blonde, your the one that lives in a "Blue" County & are supporting these bums with your taxes as well. And you know what, it's strange they call us locals in the South stupid. I think they are lacking in the ability to judge one's intellect honestly.
Will you join me in retiring to Australia? they seem to have a clue as opposed to our current government ;-)
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
JAB...All of this country is
June 7, 2007 - 21:53 ET by bigtimerJAB...
All of this country is past furious...I thank goodness for all of us and the internet...I have called before when I am past disgusted numerous times of over the years and written to the papers, but I have never been this mad, I also didn't have the internet connection yet either...people think that our votes and voices do not matter...this proves different does it not if we are angry enough...both sides of the aisle!
I also was furious when I was watching the votes in May on this Bill....one thing about it I found that great site with the link I put in for all to see how there rep's vote on anything all the time.
The American people spoke out in UNISON also thank goodness for the radio.
You know I can't wait to see how the msm tries to spin this by tomorrow morning...
Bigtime Was it you who put u
June 7, 2007 - 21:57 ET byBigtime
Was it you who put up the Congress.org site? Thanks I signed up for the updates and have received some e-mails back.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
S
June 7, 2007 - 21:57 ET byS
I called the main number for
June 7, 2007 - 21:42 ET by dahliatraversI called the main number for Capitol Hill (202-224-3121) three times this afternoon; once it rang and rang, the other two times, it was busy. That was the first time I was ever not able to get through. I was thrilled.
Yes, definitely, JAB, yours and everyone's calls definitely made a difference.
Time to "clean house" in the US Senate.
June 7, 2007 - 21:17 ET by Dave R"Right now, sources on both sides -- Republican and Democrat -- agree there are no more than 40 Republican votes for this deal."
That's 40 too many. And shame on every one of 'em, too.
Idiots!
Time to get the dead wood out of there.
Where's The Fence, George?
Let's not ressurect this mons
June 7, 2007 - 21:47 ET by rbosqueLet's not ressurect this monster!
CLOSE THE BORDERS, STOP HANDING OUT VISAS, DEPORT.
W still put the knife in the party
June 7, 2007 - 21:54 ET by Pragmatic-ManW still has put the party into straits. It pains me deep down that W has betrayed the basic concepts of conservativism. And I have stood by him in seemingly endless debates with my peers of liberal views, defending him and promoting conservative values constantly. Boy oh boy, they are having a field day with this one, and at my expense.
Normally I can eventually find the motive for someone's actions, but this one baffles me. Sure, not too hard to see that the libs want immigrant votes. But what about W? Why, George, have you done this to your political family? The betrayal is difficult to stomach.
I too am furious with a lot o
June 7, 2007 - 22:05 ET by bigtimerI too am furious with a lot of things the President has done, but I will say this, he is not the one who changed how he wanted to deal with illegal immigration from the get go....
Some in the Republican party (whom I will not forget and will hope they get defeated with a real conservative) with the likes of Karl Rove trying to cram this down our throats and making the statement not to long ago that we will get this passed, in a couple of weeks the American people will forget about it....
Didn't work this time Karl...
I bet they will attempt to bring this up again before '08...I hope not, but the speeches I heard from some on the floor after the vote makes me feel they will attempt to do just that....if they do, they had better go about it the right way, not behind the scenes in the dead of night without going through committees and hearings ect, let alone amendments being brought up that are very important to a lot of us out here.
Btw...do not get me wrong...the President should of known better, so should of some of the Party leaders...meeting with the likes of LaRaza to help craft this piece of shite was outrageous.
"...Normally I can eventual
June 7, 2007 - 22:49 ET by Ten7s"...Normally I can eventually find the motive for someone's actions, but this one baffles me. Sure, not too hard to see that the libs want immigrant votes. But what about W?..."
President Bush's domestic legacy rests on the success of his efforts to expand NAFTA, aka the SPP ( http://www.spp.gov/ ). There's been a virtual media blackout on the whole thing, and the SPP's backers are spinning it so hard that I'm surprised they can walk straight. Basically its a whole laundry list of initiatives built on the back of NAFTA all with the purpose of more fully integrating Mexico, The United States and Canada. But if you ask me, its just a damned mess.
A big part of it is free-flowing borders within North America; the development of a GWP and amesty for Illegal Aliens would certainly take us in that direction. There are about 10,000 issues and things out there related to this whole SPP process that the media is just blacking out. I guess they're in the tank for it, who the hell knows with that crowd. But anyway, for the President it was all about furthering his domestic legacy which is largely tied to this SPP monstrosity.
Tune In To WorldNetDaily
June 7, 2007 - 23:21 ET by emjem24Ten7s,
There's a site that usually reports on the the whole North American Unon deal. I used to think it all conspiracy until the tratorous RINO's tried to push this shamnesty deal down our throats. I'm sure many on NB have heard of it and they do a lot of great reporting about how the secularists are trying to get rid of all mention of Chritianity, the chaos wrought by illegal aliens, as well as other choicy tidbits for Conservatives to snap up.
The website is: www.worldnetdaily.co.... Check it out! It's worth it.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
Hi emjem... misterb has put g
June 7, 2007 - 23:32 ET by bigtimerHi emjem...
misterb has put great links on about this exact NAU deal you are talking about.
Anyone could most likely goolgle and get that info too I would think.
Here is a great link he sent with tons of info...I just checked out the headlines on it..it will make ya smile.
BT I Feel Gutted
June 8, 2007 - 00:20 ET by emjem24BT...
I took a look at the graphs and the statistical information and it doesn't look good for us native born Americans. I feel just devastated. What sticks in my craw is that Reagan added to the immigration neglect. I'm just devastated. I had no idea how bad the issue of immigration was until I saw those graphs. In 1970, we were a nation of 203-223 million people...with immigration it increased to 293 million people in 30 years!!! We can't sustain that kind of growth. We don't have that kind of infrastructure and support system for that. I'm not a rocket scientist and I get it (I actually took statistics in college and learned how to interpret this sort of data).
Who do we trust? Who? If you want border/immigration enforcement and mass deportation, you're called a racist. All of these invading illegal aliens are criminals who either just violated our immigration laws or broke more after the initial invasion. Some of these people are criminals to start with or are sick with diseases like TB. What's a person to do?
Pro-Amnesty forces assert that they just want to come and work and have the American dream. What illegals are doing is stealing the American dream and many Americans (and politicians) are handing our country over to them just to score more votes from these people. America is just some damn meal ticket to these criminals. I'm so angry and disillusioned about the situation, I can cry.
How did it get so bad...the entire American populace is culpable in this because we just sat by and let it happen. We ignored the problem and now it's devouring us alive like a flesh-eating bacteria.
I'm sorry but I need to be brutally honest. The only two options available are border/immigration enforcement and mass deportation. The illegals aren't American citizens, they only have green cards or expired visas at most. They broke the law and are living on borrowed time until they're eventually caught. Many politicians don't want to be honest with the American people and themselves. They don't want to say nasty words like "mass deportation" or they'll be branded racists. Where's the political courage and where the hell is Mexico's responsibility in all this? Stop shoving your undesirables toward the US because the American people DON'T WANT THEM. Sorry for being so long-winded.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
emjem...I agree totally with
June 8, 2007 - 00:44 ET by bigtimeremjem...
I agree totally with your summation emjem..that is why I have watched every vote I could, listened to every amendment, kept track when I could with that other link I sent you of how they vote and I just found that now, two days ago after frustration of not knowing....
I have been furious for years, Senator Warner is no better by the way...just had to throw that in there...I am so glad this is over for now....I stress for now, it will most likely be brought up again after the winter session in time for the political show down, we have over 21 senators on our side of the aisle up this coming election, the Senators are too stupid to learn if they become more conservative they will gain more votes with this issue alone....
If this bill had passed it would of stopped 25% of the illegal aliens coming in here....25%, that was said on the Senate floor numerous times, with all the money and immediate legal status we would of given even felons and gang members ect...ONLY 25%.....that was outrageous.
Reid would not let conservative Senators bring up their amendments..he pick and chose which could and couldn't after some had been promised they would get their amendment to the desk...blah blah blah
I have posted a lot about this for quite awhile with a handful of others here, made numerous calls to the congress members ect....people are furious...it is about time...the elite bubble of politicians are really to blind to know what hit them here this time...this situation has no party lines...people are furious...
I have to get off of there for the night...I really am tired and so relieved this is over...for now that is...we all must keep fighting and an eye open all the time with what is going on...this cannot happen until the border is secure like Duncan Hunter has said forever, he wrote the border fence laws, that was put on hold by the higher ups...just to hope this would get passed.
He was on H&C tonight by the way...go to Fox if you are interested in what he has to say about all of this...
I have to get some sleep...I stayed up til three last night watching votes, listening to speeches, posting here ect...lol!
You have a good day tomorrow and a nice evening.
Thank your family for your husbands service emjem.,...from my family to yours...we are grateful.
emjem-- you have hit many nails--
June 8, 2007 - 00:51 ET by misterbillemjem-- you have hit many nails--right on the head. So, just to clear the deck, I accept being called a bigoted , racist, xenophobe. That is what left leaning people will call me. Noe that I have that out of the way, I amnot interested in having people "come out of the shadows", I am interested in them coming here legally or getting out. Our Senate , before failure to achieve cloture on a bill that should be called , "The Treason Compromise", voted down an amendment to keep criminals out of our country. I am deadly serious when I say that we should set up a citizens group and every time an American citizen gets violated by an immigrant with a criminal record, the Sebnators who voted it down should get ten lashes of the whip. I am deadly serious because any person with a dram of intelligence recognizes how stupid and criminal this is.
Another thing that rips me is, even though I am not advocating the forced removal of 12+ million immigrants, I DETEST the weak=kneed pusillanimous Senators and Congressmen who say it cannot be done. Today I posted how Iran gas just forcibly removed 100,000 immigrants. These fools in office believe because of lax ebnforcement in the past and fear of losing the Latino vote that America cannot figure out how to do this? Poppycock.
I am going on too long. I have a lot more to say but it will take hours. Bigtimer will tell you that in the past 50 weeks I have been here I have bemoaned the lack of interest in the immigration issue. We, and the rest of America had to wait until it bit us on the ass before we stood up and flexed our muscles. My hope ids that the soreness of the teehmarks on the rearend will keep us alert, informed and active over the next period of time before that horrid Teddy and his coterie of cowards and cheaters try to backdoor it again.
PS I have made at least 10 calls to DC and my Senators to fight this. I have sent over a dozen faxes. I, happily have received a letter from my Congressman, who is, not quite 100% with us but at least 95%. It made me happy.
Bingo misterb...We have won t
June 8, 2007 - 01:02 ET by bigtimerBingo misterb...
We have won tonight..we cannot be lackadaisical about this...they will attempt this again as I have posted already and you too...we all must remain vigilant about this or our country is gone.
I am wiped out an going to go relax...I gave emjem the link you posted..as you must know by now...I will catch you later kind sir....
Good night to all.
a little more input
June 8, 2007 - 01:04 ET by misterbilla little more input
"The only two options available are border/immigration enforcement and mass deportation."
Actually we only need border/immigration enforcement. I post a great write-up by Jessica Vaughan at Center for Immigration Studies. It is a fairly short read and right on the money. Here What we need in America is "Attrition by Enforcement". Our government is failing to enforce existing laws. You may understand why I have been so angry all along--we really do not need a new bill -- we need enforcement of what exists. The last thing --the Federal Gov't puts local and state gov'ts in a bind because, by law, enforcement is a Federal responsibility. Why have they not only not enforced the law, but prevented other law agencise from enforcing them???
I'll have to check that out.
June 7, 2007 - 23:38 ET by Ten7sI'll have to check that out. I'm sure a lot of NBers know more about it than I do. I read some articles about 6mos after the deal was signed by the POTUS and couterparts from Mexico and Canada. So I looked it up.
At that time they had some of the original documents that they gave to the leaders on the SPP site. And ITS NO JOKE. They mean to put this SPP plan into action, if at all they can. So we'll have to be watchful because this is not over by a long shot. I expect to see similar legislation again and again.
This is a long-term strategy, and really our only hope in stopping it is putting the Presidency and Congress in the hands of people who don't agree with it. Problem is that there is sooooooo much money behind it, and we all know what greases the wheels inside the beltway...
(sighs loudly) Yes, that is a
June 8, 2007 - 07:23 ET by Unsane(sighs loudly) Yes, that is an EXTREMELY LONG TERM strategy (centuries, perhaps), given the history and culture of Mexico and Canada, whose citizens fear integration thousands times more than you. ASEAN will form an EU-style unit before we even get to the point of having a customs union with Canada. And THAT is saying a great deal.
THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
How do you know? Could you
June 8, 2007 - 07:30 ET by sarcasmoHow do you know? Could you have predicted, for example, the recent immigration bill's passage? You might be good on predicting the Spurs in sports, but predicting politics long-term is like, well, predicting the weather long-term. I think a customs union with Canada is entirely possible in the next decade or so. But it's not a sure bet either, IMO.
JMR
The entire existence of Canad
June 8, 2007 - 07:47 ET by UnsaneThe entire existence of Canada is predicated on "not being American". As such, they threw a fit over the suggestion of something like a customs union in the aftermath of 11 September 2001, after concern was voiced over Canada's immigration policies.
For an idea, see if you can hunt down the Liberal campaign's commercials from 1988; they play on Canadian fears of deeper integration, and that was over the U.S.-Canadian free trade agreement. In that advertisement, the American negotiator was seen, hovering over a map of North America, and erasing the border with the United States. Canadians FEAR anything that even remotely smacks of absorption by the United States, so I think it is a pretty safe bet that they will NOT form a customs union with the United States...quite possibly, in my lifetime.
One other thing to consider as well: the Canadians hate private ownership of handguns. If they were to form a customs union, they'd have to change that tune FAST, because the guns would be moving north. Additionally, in what I consider a brilliant move, Canada's desire to decriminalize drugs was derailed when the DEA made it known that it was going to drastically slow down the movement of goods heading south if Ottawa went ahead with its plans. THAT option goes out the window with a customs union.
THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
I still say that compared t
June 8, 2007 - 08:13 ET by sarcasmoI still say that compared to the recent amnesty/fines bill, a customs union with Canada is entirely possible. Trade is a lot less politically controversial than illegals getting amnesty. I think this possibility remains despite the concerns of control freaks on this side of the border (certain drugs, but especially the least-dangerous one) or that side (firearms of all sorts, but especially pistols) manage to get their way. (My bet would be on both types of control-freaks winning more control over citizen-units if/when it happens, especially if one of the gun-grabber northeastern Rinos -- as seems likely -- gets the Republican nomination!)
JMR
Unsane, I think you underestimate the possibilities
June 8, 2007 - 13:39 ET by Ten7s"...EXTREMELY LONG TERM strategy (centuries, perhaps)..."
Unsane, I think you underestimate the possibilities.
Hypothetically, if I were trying to bring a regional entity in North America to fruition, I'd be working at all levels ... I wouldn't push so hard as to cause an outright uprising but would make slow, steady gains on all fronts -taking advantage of situations as they arise.
Federally I'd work to keep the Presidency and Congress in the hands of regionalists, internationalists and globalists. It doesn't matter much whether their sympathies rest with "the left" and Marxists or with "the right" and "capitalists" or with neither and mostly on self (which is the most common, BTW). Of course I'd want international economic "Agreements" (not treaties, those are unnecessarily hard to obtain) and favorable legislation (troublesome but obtainable as opportunities arise, like when conditions set the stage for the Patriot Act).
State, I'd focus on the Southern Border States where the politics, economy and culture are particularly bifurcated. I'd do all that I could to lower border regulations and create cross border traffic of all types. And I'd make sure of international ownership of assets in those states so as to intertwine the politicians, corporations and economy with international (or interregional if you like) interests. Then bring a large segment of the U.S. citizens in w/ economic benefit, maybe give small and medium businesses a real boost by allowing them cheap labor. Then as the final insult, I'd make the average citizens* pay for this enterprise (and my valuable time and trouble) through toll roads and utilities fees. But that's only hypothetically, of course.
*The same averge U.S. citizens who are getting pummeled from all sides -in the wallet, in the neighborhoods, in the workplace, in the schools and hospitals...
(another painfully loug sigh)
June 9, 2007 - 00:04 ET by Unsane(another painfully loug sigh) Why can't you just admit that you are a protectionist and call it good?
I like free trade agreements, but then, I am one of those weird people who don't really like paying through the nose for basic items such as food or clothing. (Ask the Japanese how that feels.) I definitely hate the idea of sucking up to U.S. trade unions, who are more than willing to impoverish you and everyone else so that THEY can enrich their lazy membership.
I also hate illegal immigration, as it is an affront to one-half of my family, as much as anything else.
I also have this radical idea that we keep NAFTA...but since NAFTA means the member countries don't pay tariffs, or are supposed to have them reduced/eliminated, and says nothing about customs, immigration, or other such regulations, whenever a truck heads into the country from whatever direction, we do random searches, and completely unload them and load them back up again, to make sure they aren't bringing in anything illegal (drugs, immigrants, whatever) into the country. It's funny...for all of this vision of the apocalypse you cling to, every time I travel to Canada, I wind up with hard-ass customs officials who are most likely scared to death I am bringing a gun with me...and on the return, I get even more prickly U.S. Customs agents to deal with...ALL in this age of NAFTA, which, along with this EVIL talk-shop you so live in complete and total FEAR of, are supposed to be destroying the fabric of civilization.
Do me one, small, tiny favor...bring up your little conspiracy theory to any of the MPs in Ottawa, just to see the look of horror on their faces. Like it or not, they fear further integration infinitely more than you can imagine, as the entire raison d'etre of Canada is "WE ARE NOT AMERICAN" (and as for Mexico, they really haven't, in some ways, figured out precisely who they are yet). While you live in complete fear of nothing, and specialize in making mountains out of molehills, I'll stick to worrying about bigger problems, like a tax code that steals from the successful to redistribute wealth to the undeserving, or a Social Security system that sure as all hell will not be there for me when I finally retire.
(In short, we will just have to agree to disagree.)
THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
Unsane, why must you be so emotional
June 9, 2007 - 02:13 ET by Ten7s"...just admit that you are a protectionist..."
Unsane, why must you be so emotional and snide. I'm not a "protectionist", but resorting to name-calling makes it look like you can't grasp the substance of the issue.
"...this vision of the apocalypse you cling to..."
That's a non sequitur and just another example of emotionalism.
"...EVIL talk-shop you so live in complete and total FEAR of..."
What on earth are you even talking about? You get so emotional.
"...bring up your little conspiracy..."
Again for the tenth time the SPP is NOT a conspiracy. To be a conspiracy, it must be secret and illegal. It is neither secret nor illegal (though I do have some issues with the basic way the agreement was formed).
It was signed by the POTUS and leaders of Canada and Mexico AND there are copies of it on the net, hidden in plain sight. I repeat, just in case you missed it, NOT secret or illegal (some objections notwithstanding). And they are moving forward, as this latest immigration bill shows.
"While you live in complete fear of nothing..."
Why do you insist on mischaracterizing my emotional state? Its not pertinent. But on that subject your style clearly indicates that you're quite emotional.
"...making mountains out of molehills..."
Yet another snide unnecessary comment, I’m not "making" anything. I'm simply discussing the facts.
"...I'll stick to worrying about bigger problems, like a tax code that steals from the successful ... or a Social Security system ... for me when I finally retire..."
No need to worry, I know that you have a lot of pent up emotions. But your worry solves nothing.
"(In short, we will just have to agree to disagree.)"
This is the most reasonable sentence in your post.
Go ahead, live in fear, you are free
June 9, 2007 - 02:20 ET by UnsaneWell, if you want to live in total fear of the evil SPP taking over North America...I cannot help you. At all. I'll worry about the bigger issues (like Social Security, better ways to raise revenues, how to minimize government interference in life)and appreciate free-trade agreements when I go grocery shopping and buying some shorts and t-shirts to survive the blast furnace that is TX in the summer.
If anyone here is being emotional, its you. You are the one crying "The EVIL SPP came into being in March 2005!!! We're doomed!!!", instead of looking at it rationally and weighing the historical and cultural impediments to greater integration as I have.
THIRTEEN DOWN, THREE TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
PSHAW!
June 9, 2007 - 18:05 ET by Ten7sPSHAW!
W Was Never A Conservative
June 8, 2007 - 11:09 ET by emjem24Prag...
W was never a conservative. Deep down he never felt those values. Many Republicans are surface Conservatives but those ideas never reach where it counts...the heart.
I, like you, am pained by his betrayal. I'll stand with him on the WOT, tax cuts, and the SCOTUS but after that we go in different directions. He's hurt me and my family deeply and I'm not sure how deep the damage for us conservatives and Republicans in general will be. Only time will tell....
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
SCOTUS? Remember Harriet Myer
June 8, 2007 - 11:16 ET by Sergeant ROCKSCOTUS? Remember Harriet Myers? Fortunately, that didn't fly.
I didn't vote for W in either primary - but he was the lesser of two evils in the end, however.
"GIBSON: But what's so
June 7, 2007 - 21:54 ET by ckc1227"GIBSON: But what's so counterintuitive to me, George, is that a lot of
the Senators who think and say most strongly that something has to be
done to reform immigration are the ones who are voting for these killer
amendments."
Well, Charles, something DOES have to be done to reform immigration, but that doesn't mean you pass bad legislation just so for the sake of doing something.
Illegal Immigrants cause global warming. Build the wall to save the Earth. Don't we owe it to the children?
I will never understand why--
June 7, 2007 - 22:01 ET by misterbillI will never understand why--some of our citizens are not only sympathetic to the lawbreakers, but welcome them with open arms. Yes, I know that some small businessmen and a few large ones profit off the cheap labor. What about all those with nothing to gain by their coming here and a lot to lose??? To all who do not understand the profound financial, political issues they should read Stanley Kurtz column on National Review about the book, "The Last Days of Europe:Epitaph for an Old Continent". The book review is here:
Be very, very frightened if this bill raises its head again. Be very, very frightened if those we elected do not enforce our laws on this issue (as well as others).
Evening misterb....I am worri
June 7, 2007 - 22:07 ET by bigtimerEvening misterb....
I am worried, but if they do in the form that it is ...the same thing will happen.
Defeat.
Btw....I hope you are a little bit happy about this tonight.... ; )
We can now expect people like
June 7, 2007 - 22:11 ET by Clear thinkerWe can now expect people like tumbler to tell us how mean we are. Since when is standing up for your country a bad thing? Oh yeah, this is the day and age of enlightenment.
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
Ct...I think Eugene is busy
June 7, 2007 - 22:17 ET by bigtimerCt...
I think Eugene is busy crying in his tumbler at the moment...
ROFLMAO!
Bet ya it's tequila! Prove
June 7, 2007 - 22:19 ET by Clear thinkerBet ya it's tequila!
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
Can't wait til he bites the w
June 7, 2007 - 22:20 ET by bigtimerCan't wait til he bites the worm!
Is Tumbler under observation
June 8, 2007 - 07:54 ET by Roger the ShrubberIs Tumbler under observation at the moment? Suicide watch? Did he have to remove his bandoliers?
happy like a divorce
June 7, 2007 - 22:13 ET by Pragmatic-ManI am happy tonight that the bill was killed. I was also happy the day I got divorced. A very sad happiness, not even really happiness at all. Just a sigh, a feeling that for the moment I had found a solution. As for the divorce, it stuck, expensive but worth every penny. As for this legislation, it will return in some form again. Until we rid this country of the illegal immigrants, it will continue to surface. And with a heavy sight I resolve myself to the plight of a conservative's life, to fight the good fight.
Me too Prag...Me too...I am w
June 7, 2007 - 22:15 ET by bigtimerMe too Prag...Me too...I am with ya!
PragMan, the day of my first
June 7, 2007 - 22:31 ET by JABPragMan, the day of my first divorce I took off from work, just for GP. After stopping by the local hardware store (to buy lettering) I went to court.
Upon leaving the parking lot my "Truck" had some additions to it's optional standards...they read: "I Got a Gun For my Wife...Good Trade"! & "Happily Divorced" (what a date getter the latter was)!
"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."
I suggest we all keep a close
June 7, 2007 - 22:09 ET by Clear thinkerI suggest we all keep a close eye on ALL politicians for awhile. Something tells me this is not over just yet.
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
Hi Ct...I keep one eye open a
June 7, 2007 - 22:12 ET by bigtimerHi Ct...
I keep one eye open all the time!
LOL....
bt... You are one smart la
June 7, 2007 - 22:15 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
You are one smart lady!
Prove you can secure our borders first. The only legislation that counts!
Good evening, misterbill,
June 7, 2007 - 22:16 ET by Dave RGood evening, misterbill,
I saw a story yesterday, I forget just where at the moment, that the name Mohammed was now the second most popular name in the U.K.
I'd say the city of Londonistan is just around the corner for that once great nation.
Too bad.
Where's The Fence, George?
dave R-- USA in 5 years if the bill is revived and passed.
June 8, 2007 - 01:14 ET by misterbillGo here for how far it has progressed. I read, the USA in 5 years if the bill is reveived and passes.
You know we have said here a
June 7, 2007 - 22:13 ET by Airforce_5_OYou know we have said here a million times.
Close the Border.
Enforce the Law.
Simple isn't it? John? Steffy? Stop looking at the shiny object. Over here guys.
Nod if you understand.
OH WHAT"S THE USE?!
Airforce...It is simple as th
June 7, 2007 - 22:19 ET by bigtimerAirforce...
It is simple as that along with a few other major touches just for good measure!
BT Can I bring my taser?????
June 7, 2007 - 22:24 ET by Airforce_5_OBT
Can I bring my taser??????
Airforce... You betcha'!Make
June 7, 2007 - 22:27 ET by bigtimerAirforce...
You betcha'!
Make it a bakers dozen and share with others....
Laughing out loud now...
BTYou know I saw a 250lb drun
June 7, 2007 - 22:33 ET by Airforce_5_OBT
You know I saw a 250lb drunk wet his pants one night after getting hit by one. Gave some boys a hard time and BAM! took a header into the ditch.
I was laughing so hard I almost wet myself.
Is that wrong or what?
Airforce,I am too busy laughi
June 7, 2007 - 22:40 ET by bigtimerAirforce,
I am too busy laughing...
Like I said share your toys with others....
BtHere is one of my favorites
June 7, 2007 - 23:02 ET by Airforce_5_OBt
Here is one of my favorites.
It's all fun and games till the poe poe gets ya.
Airforce....Well that worked
June 7, 2007 - 23:09 ET by bigtimerAirforce....
Well that worked fast....
Whatever part of get down now or move they didn't understand the first time they sure as hell did the second...
LOL....
Took care of matters in seconds now didn't they?
And this one
June 7, 2007 - 23:05 ET by Airforce_5_OAnd this one
Well now that guy was on the
June 7, 2007 - 23:18 ET by bigtimerWell now that guy was on the ground he should of just went over after the third time and got the drunken guy then IMO...I am not into tasering drunks a bunch myself after he was obviously in no postion to put his hands behind his back but saying ok ok....
I am not a sadistic person ya know...well...take that back....just depends on the person and the situation that is...
LOL.
BTWell yall enjoy the videos.
June 7, 2007 - 23:21 ET by Airforce_5_OBT
Well yall enjoy the videos. I got to go to bed before the wife tazes me. Later.
Airforce...Have a good evenin
June 7, 2007 - 23:24 ET by bigtimerAirforce...
Have a good evening....before the wife tasers ya....
I am sure not far behind toinght...been a long week, and it ain't even done yet!
Jeff Sessions 20 loopholes
June 7, 2007 - 22:29 ET by Pragmatic-ManThis link takes you to a list, compiled by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL), of 20 loopholes found in the current (killed) legislation. These loopholes will likely surface again. I find this to be a great quick-reference for everything wrong with the current immigration reform movement.
It is a great link Pragmatic
June 7, 2007 - 22:36 ET by bigtimerIt is a great link Pragmatic that is for sure...
He made a killer speech after the votes last night, he was angry too...I searched for it early this morning it wasn't posted up anywhere yet that I could find, then I had work to do and listen to the Senate all day until this was done and blog here now and then...
I am going to try and find it again...he summed it all up about the little group that crafted this behind the scenes ect...I will never forget it.
He worked tirelessly, there are about thirty good Senators IMO, been that way for as long as I have been watching politics...thank goodness for real men and women hat fight for the best in this country and what it was meant to be...and will stay..they do make a difference...I thank them all tonight.
Jeff Sessions audio and video
June 7, 2007 - 22:47 ET by Pragmatic-ManBigtimer, Sessions website also had video and audio links, where his radio addresses, floor speeches, and pressers are catalogued. I think it takes his staffers a few days to post, but it will show up for sure.
Hey thanks Prag...I went ther
June 7, 2007 - 22:57 ET by bigtimerHey thanks Prag...
I went there early today too...I noticed it takes a few days by some of the dates, I just really wanted some of the NB's here that may be interested to hear it, I did not know all day for sure with Fearless Harry what was going o happen, he has changed his mind so many times.
I will keep an eye out for it that is for sure...glad you may be interested, that is for sure, it was like midnight my Mountain time so it was most likely around two in the morning for them...lol!
I posted more than once, but I did again last night, I would love to see Sessions on the Supreme Court....I have nothing but complete admiration for the fine man...have for years.
I Like Jeff Sessions
June 7, 2007 - 23:36 ET by emjem24Pragmatic,
Wow! Thanks for posting the link! My God, I thought the shamnesty bill was a disaster but then I took a look at these loopholes and now it's much worse than I first thought. I'm amazed Pres. Bush really thought he could get this clunker passed. I don't understand it. And the whole time, the taxpayer foots the bill. They get services even if they're not legal, if they abscond they get taypayer provided counsel. It's just, plain, sickening. My stomach is just clenching. I may have to take some Pepto Bismal for this one.
I lived in Alabama a couple of years ago when Sessions (I believe) was just a representative. I always liked him. I lived in Montgomery where my husband was stationed at Maxwell, AFB and the people there are a little fruity but all in all they have a lot more common sense than some Easterners I grew up with.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
emjem...Here is quick link to
June 7, 2007 - 23:48 ET by bigtimeremjem...
Here is quick link to his bio.....
Sounds like The Politico was
June 7, 2007 - 22:51 ET by bigtimerSounds like The Politico was just about speechless tonight....
So sad, I am sure the msm/print will have all there talking points in order by morning.
The posters weren't quiet...lol!
Let The Shamnesty Bill Die
June 7, 2007 - 23:04 ET by emjem24Oh, boo hoo, poor, poor Shamnesty Bill's gonna die. Instead of evaluating the defects of the damn thing let's go ahead and blame our favorite scapegoat: Conservatives. Just because Conservatives want the current immigration laws enforced and don't want to betray our sovereignty or our national identity/integrity, we're the villains.
What's ironic is who they don't mention not supporting the bill: liberals. Liberals won't take the bill as is because whole families can't immigrate together and big business wants their quota of workers to do jobs Americans won't do (what a lie that is) such as picking lettuce or washing dishes. Yeah, that's it.
I can't think of a more divisive way to analyze one of the pressing problems our country faces. Politicians, left and right, time to face facts - if you don't start enforcing our borders and deporting these law breakers (and criminals shouldn't be US citizens), our country will implode. No one wants to take responsibility. Well, the RINO's better listen up because if they don't wise up on immigration, they'll soon be out of a job. Do you hear that Lindsay Graham, John McClain, etc?
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
emjem, The shamnesty was sch
June 7, 2007 - 23:10 ET byemjem,
The shamnesty was scheduled to slide right under the radar. I believe it did not due to phone calls, letters and e-mails. Could we thus call it:
"The death of a couple million cuts"
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I've tried calling the Cong
June 7, 2007 - 23:16 ET by Free StinkerI've tried calling the Congressional switchboard, but it's always busy! ;-)
.
"What, the voters are upset?"
Hagel voted with the dem's on
June 7, 2007 - 23:21 ET by bigtimerHagel voted with the dem's on just about every single amendment ...plus Cloture too, I am not sure about all Cloture votes but I think so.
He is the sleaziest there is anymore.
Kennedy/McCain Amnesty Bill
June 7, 2007 - 23:45 ET by loveleboThe Kennedy/McCain Amnesty Bill which would have given instant legal status to 12 million illegals went down to defeat 50-45 in the Senate 6/7/07.
Republican weasels voting for amnesty:
Graham (SC)
Hagel (NE)
Lugar (IN)
Martinez (FL)
McCain (AZ)
Specter (PA)
Voinovich (OH)
Republican cowards not voting:
Brownback (KS)
Coburn (OK)
Enzi (WY)
Kudos to Democrats & Independents voting against amnesty (even if for the wrong reasons):
Baucus (MT)
Bingaman (NM)
Boxer (CA)
Byrd (WV)
Dorgan (ND)
Landrieu (LA)
McCaskill (MO)
Pryor (AR)
Rockefeller (WV)
Sanders (VT)
Tester (MT)
Webb (VA)
Let Me Edit That
June 7, 2007 - 23:45 ET by emjem24I just noticed a little booboo I need to correct. I meant John McCain, not McClain. I hate the guy and am glad he's not my senator. I have Chucky Schumer and Bilary in the state of New York (I'm an absentee voter) to contend with. How 'bout that Sen. Kyl? I liked him 'til he did this. I'm real disappointed in him and feel for those who live in Arizona. They both need to go.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
Kyl broke my heart basically.
June 7, 2007 - 23:58 ET by bigtimerKyl broke my heart basically....he has been one of my favorites for years...
I posted about him late last night and the day before I think, he really let me down...along with some others.
I posted this link to know how each Senator voted on each amendment this is a good one to keep for your information if you can't catch votes and want to know how each member votes, they post the individuals about an hour after the vote, they immediately post the bill or amendment voted on...this also tells you what each amendment or bill is too....you can check out a lot of info on this site, bios and web sites of the congress ect.
If you don’t think this i
June 8, 2007 - 07:43 ET by USA4freedomIf you don’t think this is a hot topic. Look at how many post were made. 93 in less then 24 hrs.
Well it seems to pay to call e-mail, snail mail, and fax. Some how they have gotten some message. I did them all but sent the snail mail via fed ex.
Now if we can only get the dam fence built!
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
I am happy as everyone here
June 8, 2007 - 10:57 ET by ScottyDogI am happy as everyone here that cloture did not pass but we must be vigilant. Yesterday, while the immigration debate was suspended, the open borders traitors were meeting in Secret again and have written a new 400 page amendment that will repeal Byron Dorgan’s amendment and Cornyns too. Mark my words this is not over. GWB will send out his hacks to twist arms and offer earmarks to get the Senate back in line.
According to Worldnetdaily:
“Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the issue may be brought up again, with McConnell advising, "I wouldn't wait a whole long time to do it."
“Indeed, as Fox News reports, "all the GOP lawmakers who spoke with Fox News were upbeat that the legislation could be revived soon – even within a matter of weeks, with one negotiator noting that last year's bill was first pulled from the floor by then-Majority Leader Bill Frist before it was brought back up again and passed."
“And Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham said he and Reid are confident the bill will be back.”
Then I received this from FAIR this morning in my email:
FAIR has learned that instead of debating amendments on the floor, Senators this afternoon are hiding behind closed doors, drafting a massive, 400-page amendment that will replace huge chunks of the Bush-Kennedy bill currently being debated. Senate leaders are hoping to use the new substitute amendment to reverse changes made over the last 24-hours they don't like, such as the Cornyn amendment on information sharing and the Dorgan amendment that sunsets the Y guest worker program. Leaders hope once this substitute amendment is adopted, they can get enough votes to end debate ( i.e. to pass a cloture motion) and ram it through the U.S. Senate.
FAIR is urging all members and activists to call their Senators' offices THIS VERY MOMENT and ask Senators to refuse to take up any more secret bargains. Ask that Senators be given more time to debate meaningful amendments that would improve the bill, and if no extra time is given, to vote NO on cloture!
To find the phone numbers of your Senators, click here. If you can't get through to the Washington D.C. office of your Senators, be sure to try the district office numbers.
Make sure you keep those Fax and phonecalls going to the traitors in the Senate and thank the heroes that helped stopped this abomination.
Is this Mexico or the USA
Did somebody say John McLaine
June 8, 2007 - 07:52 ET by Roger the ShrubberDid somebody say John McLaine?
It Was Me
June 8, 2007 - 09:52 ET by emjem24Roger...
I have to embarassingly raise my hand and say it was me. I was tired, angry, miffed and when I get like that my spelling starts to disentegrate. Since I really don't like John McCain (shamnesty wackjob politician that he is), perhaps this was my inadvertent way of insulting him. I don't know. He just makes me mad. I bet he's made a lot of Arizonans mad. Anyhoo, Rog, can you ever forgive me? I'll make sure I comment on the Shrub Report more often, okay?
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
The vast majority of the public
June 8, 2007 - 08:37 ET by c5thenDO NOT WANT TO GIVE AMNESTY TO CRIMINALS. That is the message that Congress is getting (all be it slowly). IMO, Any republican who votes for this bill is putting their deat up for grabs in the next election and some of the democrats too. These should be two seperate bills with no riders and off-tpoic amendments. One bill for the fence and absolutely locked down border security,the other for dealing with the illegals now already here.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
C5,I agreefirst! fence then
June 8, 2007 - 09:09 ET by USA4freedomC5,
I agree
first! fence then we can work on the other prob.
These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
Unless any of our clueless RI
June 8, 2007 - 09:22 ET by kathleenirishUnless any of our clueless RINOs were wondering: This bill is where the rest of us drew a line in the sand. If you don't wake up quickly, you will be finding yourselves looking for another line of 'work'. Although, it's already too late for most of them.
P.S. Forget about the so-called 'War on Terror'~the dopes would let convicted felons in gangs become citizens, and don't seem to grasp that millions have already crossed over without documentation or permission, how many terrorists will have already gone along for the ride? Never mind the future 'citizens' who will have taken the oath to destroy the U.S. before they got here....don't you wish the feds would have gone after these guys the way they went after the Mafia? Wouldn't the vaulted 'RICO' standards apply here as well?!!!
Anyone who says they support the troops but not the mission is a liar.
Hey, Charlie Gibson ! Capta
June 8, 2007 - 09:57 ET by GalvanicHey, Charlie Gibson ! Captain Peacock wants his tie back!
Conservatives proving yet aga
June 8, 2007 - 10:10 ET by webdrConservatives proving yet again that this country is majority conservative and the elected leaders do listen when you withhold money, flood their offices with calls and faxes. This is a big victory for the rule of law, and conservative principles.
It's all about AMERICAN value
June 8, 2007 - 10:15 ET by kathleenirishIt's all about AMERICAN values, our AMERICAN identity, AMERICAN laws, and the priceless value of our AMERICAN citizenship. It can only be tampered with so much before we fight back!!
Anyone who says they support the troops but not the mission is a liar.
Daniel Henninger on citizenship and why today's illegals don't
June 8, 2007 - 10:24 ET by RJDaniel Henninger, an editor at the WSJ is an advocate of the amnesty bill, but he wrote an article that included this passage:
"The word "citizen" is everywhere in the immigrant discussion, but it blows by as if its full meaning were obvious. But it is not obvious because it's a lot more than just an idea. For many people, being born in the United States is just the beginning of citizenship. Genuine American citizenship is about a lot more than that. It's doing what's required to maintain all the communities, large and small, that constitute the 50 states.
"This is what former House Speaker Tip O'Neill really meant when he said "all politics is local." It's about being willing to put in the time to deal with local tax issues, zoning fights, school-board controversies, battles over utility rights of way, traffic lights--all the stuff that runs beneath the Big Media radar but is what really constitutes the bedrock of American politics for most people. This is what citizens do. The problem for many people with the illegal workers, no matter how hard they work, is that they exist entirely outside the complications of civic life for an American citizen. And they appear to do so more or less permanently. For many, this makes the illegal-worker status quo a rebuke to the idea of dutiful citizenship."
http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110010177
What did Conservatives prove?
June 8, 2007 - 10:15 ET by Cool ArrowAll we proved is that we can shout all day BUILD THE FENCE YOU PROMISED, THEN WE'LL TALK.
They've scrapped it all rather than 'start at the start and end at the end'.
Illigitimii non carborundum.
Lott admits he's a rat
June 8, 2007 - 10:31 ET by Jack BauerTrent Lott finally admits he's a rat.
As he walked out of the Capitol after last night's vote, Minority RINO Whip Trent Lott and shamnesty supporter was critical of colleagues, particularly conservatives
Throughout the day, he had challenged senators to answer whether they were "mice or men."
Also -- here's another insane amendment which basically would allow one quarter MILLION Iraqi "refugees" to enter the USA every year for the for the next THREE YEARS.
Mmmmm, ya think they might include thousands of trained TERRORISTS?
Again, what we have here is a
June 8, 2007 - 10:37 ET by Sergeant ROCKAgain, what we have here is a demonstration of these RINOs like Lott doing whatever they can to appease those that seek their destruction.
Where is it written that Congress must pass something for the sake of passing something???