Update at bottom:
Maybe Michael Moore should listen to people who actually have socialized medicine—at least those who are allowed to disagree with their government’s policies. Singer Elton John’s partner David Furnish slammed Michael Moore and his latest docuganda “Sicko” for misrepresenting the quality of the US health care system. On June 02, Furnish stated, ”[America] was the only place to get good treatment”(emphasis mine):
Elton John's partner David Furnish has hit out at filmmaker Michael Moore for criticising the US healthcare system.
The star - who lives in England - insists new movie Sicko is inaccurate, and has praised America's medical services - branding it "the only place to get good treatment".
He says: "I completely disagree with Michael Moore. With my own father, when he was ill, the only option was to hire a jet and fly him to America. It was the only place to get good treatment."
Furnish flew his father, who lives in Canada, to America for the fast, advanced quality care that he does not believe can be had elsewhere.
According to Canadian journalists who saw “Sicko,” Moore gave “lavish praise” Canada’s socialized health care system in comparison to the US, but once Canadian journalists challenged those claims, Moore changed his tune about Canada's medical utopia and began bad-mouthing the country’s program. Although he now criticizes the Canadian system, he still states that it is better than ours, although to “insult” it, he claimed, “The Canadian system…if not that far above us…The French system is the best in the world.”
If Canada is that much better than the US, why would Furnish leave the country? If socialized medicine that better than the free-market system, then why didn’t Furnish take his father to the UK or France for the “best in the world” level of treatment? Instead, he chose the US. It could have even been free of charge in France.
I wonder if Michael Moore will call Sir Elton’s partner a greedy corporate dupe for spreading the capitalist lie that American health care is better than the rest of the world's. Surely, he’ll chastise Furnish for not dutifully waiting in line for months for treatment, even though survivability rates for many diseases like breast cancer (fatal to 46% in UK vs. 25% in US) and prostate cancer (fatal to 57% of Brits, 25% of Canadians and 19% of Americans) are significantly lower in Canada and the UK than in the US.
David Furnish and Elton John are a popular celebrity couple in the UK and Europe. Any time that a celebrity bashes Bush or the US or supports Moore, the media are quick to cover it. Will they cover this celebrity attacking “Sicko” and Michael Moore? So far, not in America, and only minimal coverage in Europe. It is still early, so it is possible.
Update 06/04 06:40 EST:
The UK's the Times apologized for criticizing Furnish for supposedly flying his father to the US on a private jet, which for some reason was an indcation of wrong doing. WENN reported that "Furnishes father took a commercial Air Canada flight."
If a son can afford to send his sick father to a hospital on a private jet instead of a crowded plane so he is comfortable, then why should UK'sTimes care? What Furnish was rumored to have done for his father sounded rather compassionate and thoughtful to me, but not everyone feels the same way. A "Sicko" fan in England contacted me to say he agrees with the Times' criticism of Furnish over the "guff" about the private jet. Since the dad actually flew on Air Canada and not on a private jet, the point is moot.
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Comments Policy
A dilemna for the MsM. A gay
June 2, 2007 - 14:35 ET by QueenMumA dilemna for the MsM. A gay man bashing Michael Moore. Whose side do they take?
We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria
Michael Moore fears "THE
June 2, 2007 - 18:48 ET by ZoneDaiatlasMichael Moore fears "THE TRUTH" about the Healthcare in Cuba...
TheRealCuba.com
Cuba
June 2, 2007 - 14:41 ET by LilyPearlOr better yet, why didn't Furnish just take his Dad to Cuba? LOL!
Cleveland Clinic has always h
June 2, 2007 - 14:59 ET by drillanwrCleveland Clinic has always had a big percentage of foreign patients.
I also knew a family in Canada who complained about the health care system, and how their diabetic son was always lacking in what he needed ... in addition to the several taxes on everything up there. They would cross the border into New York and purchase alcohol swabs, syringes, etc. for loads cheaper than Canada was selling them for.
I worked at Winter Haven Ho
June 2, 2007 - 17:07 ET by terrigI worked at Winter Haven Hospital in Winter Haven, FL, for awhile in college and I can tell you that we also had a large percentage of foreign patients, with most being from Canada and a few other snow birds who came from the UK. They always made sure they had their medical business taken care of before they left to go home.
Hey terri,Oh yeah, the social
June 2, 2007 - 17:20 ET by BlondeHey terri,
Oh yeah, the socialist medical model is a model of efficiency (not). It's allocated health care, and those who can afford it do (here, obviously).
My brit friend's elderly mom needs new digital hearing aids...the wait in England is three years, basically the brit doc's told her not to bother.
Nice, huh?
"My brit friend's elde
June 2, 2007 - 19:07 ET by ckc1227"My brit friend's elderly mom needs new digital hearing aids...the
wait in England is three years, basically the brit doc's told her not
to bother.
Nice, huh?"
It's even worse. The elderly in general are not a high priority in many socialized health care countries, for any ailment. Thankfully for her it's not a more serious condition she needs treatment for.
The last thing America needs
June 2, 2007 - 15:02 ET byThe last thing America needs is government ran medical care. Our medical care system has enough problems with doctors not being held accountable.
A person licensed to drive a car who behaves negligently and greatly harms another person will be brought up on charges by the state. But a licensed doctor can practice medicine negligently and the state slaps him/her on the hand. (The state forces malpractice suits because of this. And because malpractice suits are so hard, most doctors go without penalty, free to harm again.)
As for private insurance companies, they are bad enough. They are in bed with the doctors. You THINK your insurance company works for you. Wrong! Point blank ask your health insurance company sometime, who they would side with in a dispute if you say one thing and your doctor says another, --even if you have proof that your doctor lied, even if the health insurance company has the proof itself.
My old health insurance company (I dropped them after) told me that when their is a disagreement, they always believe doctor. This was despite the fact that the same insurance company paid the surgeon and the hospital bills and saw the records from the surgeon as well as the hospital for what was taken out of me, all of which highly conflicted with my ex-doctor's account of the events leading up to my surgery.
The last thing we need is less accountability with our medical service. They already, all too often, believe they are untouchable. And we all know how we get treated by government ran agencies. Have you been to the DMV lately?
Debra...
"As for private insura
June 2, 2007 - 15:59 ET by ckc1227"As for private insurance companies, they are bad enough. They are in
bed with the doctors. You THINK your insurance company works for you.
Wrong! Point blank ask your health insurance company sometime, who they
would side with in a dispute if you say one thing and your doctor says
another, --even if you have proof that your doctor lied, even if the
health insurance company has the proof itself."
But that's not because they work for the doctors, it's because they work for themselves. Agreeing with you will likely cost them more money, ESPECIALLY when the doctor is wrong. They don't work for you or the doctors, they work for themselves.
Doctors, especially general practitioners, don't make as much as you think, epspecially not for the hours they work and the responsibilities they have. And once they bring in socialized health care, I imagine there will be some sort of salary cap imposed, and, using the California model, the taking of profits to help subsidize the health care of others, which ultimately may mean even LESS money, which will also mean lower pay for doctors, which will mean even fewer new doctors for an already understaffed sector.
NJ Insurance companies
June 2, 2007 - 19:53 ET by m1xramHere in NJ they have something called "holdback". For every claim a doctor makes the insurance company holds back a portion of the payment for the doctor. At the end of the year the insurance company reviews the doctor's decisions to decide if he or she will get the money. Can you say, "conflict of interest?"
Makes you wonder if you're getting doctored by the doctor.
You left out part of the triad of the medical industry, the lawyer. Lawyers complete the circle of increasing costs to the consumer. They sue, win outrageous sums, malpractice insurance goes up, doctor's fees increase.
If that's the clockwise direction, here's the counter-clockwise. Insurance companies hold down costs by not allowing "unnecessary" procedures or drugs, doctors tend not to ask for things they can't get, lawyers sue doctors for not doing all that could be done. There's too many ways it can all go bad, especially when you know the insurance company wants to keep the money whether they're right or wrong.
I'm glad there are still good doctors out there fighting for their patients. They get beat up from both sides.
m1xram
They have something like the
June 3, 2007 - 15:12 ET byThey have something like the 'holdback' here too, mlxram. It is outrageous and very much a conflict of interest.
But the lawyers are not the problem, when it comes to the legal end of medical negligence. The problem falls on the state, which refuses to do deal appropriately with bad doctors, forcing people to sue in order to hopefully prevent another patient from being hurt by the same doctor.
Debra...
I see what you are saying, ck
June 3, 2007 - 15:03 ET byI see what you are saying, ckc1227, but in my case it cost the insurance company far more in the long run -- a lot more.
This has led me to believe that it is highly possible that the health insurance companies actually find it profitable when patients are brought to the brink of death. Why? Because then the very high cost procedures come into play, costs that look much better when insurance companies put forth rate increases.
Let's face it, insurance companies are middlemen. And the more expensive health care costs are, the more money they charge to cover it. Letting a patient go to the brink of death, drums up more business for the insurance company.
What would have been a half hour surgery and one day in the hospital for me, turned into a major surgery, a week in the hospital, weeks of visiting nurses and a secondary illness too. My ex-insurance company actually got far more business this way.
I believe that for the insurance company, putting patience off and or not giving them early care, is a win win situation for the insurance company. They then do not risk as much money on things that turn out to be false alarms, and they make far more money on those things are true alarms. Let's remember, they get their money, they just up their price for insurance.
Debra...
:applause:Deb, I am impressed
June 2, 2007 - 22:04 ET by tracheostomy:applause:
Deb, I am impressed. Indeed, this is this first time I have seen you pass on the gay-bait, while keeping it on-topic without your usual hysterical agenda-pushing. You're learning!
And a sincere thank you. =)
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
There was not any "gay-
June 3, 2007 - 15:20 ET byThere was not any "gay-bait" by the writer of this article, PJ. The writer of the article was simply stating the facts that Elton John's partner [in his anti-Christ perversion, solidly sick, absolutely appauling "life style"] spoke up on an issue and gave his opinion.
I had no reason to comment on the man's sin at the time of my post, but being you brought it up...
Debra...
Socialized medicine
June 3, 2007 - 13:13 ET by doug1950No one need not look any further than the IRS and our deplorable tax codes to see how well the Federal Gov't runs things. The more the government diddles with it to "fix it" the worse it becomes. It is so bad now even the IRS admits they don't what they are doing. Just imagine how snafu'd Federally run medicine will be. It hasn't worked anywhere else it has been tried so what makes them believe it will work here.
Exactly, doug1950. Perfectly
June 3, 2007 - 15:21 ET byExactly, doug1950. Perfectly said. ...Debra
"It hasn't worked anywhe
June 3, 2007 - 19:42 ET by MikeB"It hasn't worked anywhere else it has been tried so what makes them beleive it will work here?" Doug, it'll work here because Hillary is the smartest woman in the world. Why, if all those other countries that tried socialized medicine, or socialism, for that matter, had had a Hillary leading them, why the entire world by now would be a worker's paradise. There would be full employment (because, just like in the Soviet Union, the government is the only employer, and it was illegal to be unemployed), children would not need to worry their poor little heads about what they would do when they grew up, because a government bureaucrat would decide that for them. Factory managers would not need to do any strategic planning, because the government would tell them how many of what commodity they would make. Yes, Doug, it never worked before, because the world did not have Hillary Supergenius Rodham Clinton to show them the way. Why, Doug, you should be just absolutely thrilled that Hillary has taken up the red banner, and will soon relieve everyone of any responsibility for themselves, and the world will be all sweetness and light, and the children of the village will be able to fly kites all day long in rainbow filled skies. Please excuse me now, while I go wash my hands for having typed such BS.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
::: Handing MikeB the Dial so
June 3, 2007 - 23:49 ET by::: Handing MikeB the Dial soap :::
My greatest fear about a Gove
June 2, 2007 - 15:11 ET by alamojbMy greatest fear about a Government Health Care System is they will charge no deductible at all for a visit to the doctor. This will just encourage more people to go to the doctor for every little sniffle- thus clogging the system even more and preventing people with real needs from seeing the docs. Not to mention the people that will go just to get out of work.
"...The Democrats love chaos. The Republicans love order and discipline and waiting your turn." Chris Matthews on "Gregory Live" as reported by Scott Whitlock 16MAY2007 blog "Matthews Rips..."<
And that is EXACTLY what happ
June 2, 2007 - 23:39 ET by UnsaneAnd that is EXACTLY what happened in Britain when the NHS was introduced. Once you make something "free", people will use the good/service accordingly. Prices aren't there because people are trying to screw you...they are actually telling you something about supply/demand, if one bothers to look.
TWELVE DOWN, FOUR TO GO...(until the SPURS' FOURTH RING!!!)
Think so?
June 3, 2007 - 10:02 ET by goldenthroatHey, Unsane - not unless the Cavs have anything to do with it!
<DITTO!!!>
June 4, 2007 - 09:53 ET by drillanwr<DITTO!!!>
Amen! King James and Company
June 5, 2007 - 17:34 ET by QueenMumAmen! King James and Company are on their way to kick some San Antonio butt.
RISE UP FOR THE CAVS!
We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat. - Queen Victoria
G-OV-E-R-N-M-E-N-T
June 2, 2007 - 17:04 ET by paulnashtnThe cost of insurance is skyrocketing because of government regulations that mandate what they have to cover in all group policies. Wait till the governmnt takes over the whole show then the taxpayers will understand what REALLY high taxes are
“I would remind you
that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind
you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
Anybody who believes in socia
June 2, 2007 - 17:14 ET by nnptcgradAnybody who believes in socialized medicine should be forced by law to join the Armed Services. Then, after their tour is up, and they've experienced the "Drink more water and take a Motrin" talk five times (in as many days) before they see an actual physician for an illness, then they can tell me how great that system is. They screamd bloody murder about Walter Reed. If we go to a completely socialized heathcare, I'm betting that Walter Reed will be looked back upon with fondness for the hygene and orderliness.
Mother nature is a bitch - Ninth Corollary of Murphy's Law
Canadian journalists certai
June 2, 2007 - 19:38 ET by Howard_BealeCanadian journalists certainly did challenge Michael Moore. And he challenged them back.
"I think you'd be hard pressed to find Canadians that
would agree 20-40 minutes is a standard waiting time in a Canadian
hospital," said Macleans magazine's Brian Johnson. "Why do you paint a
picture so universally rosy in a country like Canada when it can
undermine the credibility of your film?"
... "Would you give up your Canadian
health-care card for an American one?" Mr. Moore said. "No," the
journalist replied.
Poor Michael!
June 2, 2007 - 20:04 ET by goldenthroatAw, c'mon NB bloggers! Here we go again - poor little (yeah, right) Michael Moore is now getting picked on by a couple of gay men?
Just how much more abuse can Fat Boy take? Why - it's Un-American to bash an Anti-American!
Never dance on an empty stomach unless it's a liberal.
Leaving aside what you'd li
June 3, 2007 - 07:08 ET by sarcasmoLeaving aside what you'd like to talk-about, which obviously isn't policy, might you have any comments regarding the "benefits" of socialist medicine systems in light of the story.
JMR
sarcasmo
June 3, 2007 - 07:16 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsFunny thing sarc, few point out that Moore is, at the simplest level, a capitalist, making money telling a certain segment of society exactly what it wants to be told. The truth doesn't enter into it.
Of course, he will never admit it.
D
A day without NewsBusters is like a day without sunshine.
Exactly... And I'm sure nei
June 3, 2007 - 07:26 ET by sarcasmoExactly... And I'm sure neither of us believes he's dumb-enough not to know the truth. I'm just amazed the left forgives Moore for each dishonesty and (after all the proven dishonesties) amazed the right gives him this much attention. I'm also not thrilled he's getting involved in the Cuba debate, which during my lifetime hasn't exactly been highly regarded for being rational anyway...As usual, I'll be faced with trying to somehow "diss" that idiot Moore, that despot Castro, and decades of a moronic US government policy; all at once.
JMR
A response
June 3, 2007 - 10:00 ET by goldenthroat<delete>
This has got to be the funnie
June 2, 2007 - 20:45 ET by Airforce_5_OThis has got to be the funniest thing I have read all week.
Mikey Moore getting his butt reamed (pun intended) by one of his own lefties.
Fellow NBer's this is absolute proof there is a God.
the 'triumphs' of socialized medicine
June 3, 2007 - 06:24 ET by Jack BauerAh, the 'triumphs' of socialized medicine continue to mount...
The UK government just announced that after 10 years trying to implement a National Health Service computer system it's being scrapped. So far it has cost $40 BILLION . Now it's back to the drawing board.
Think about that. 10 years. 40 billion. Nothing to show. Imagine how useless the old sytem still in place must be using 20 year old technology.
This is just one in a long line of utter failures when you have government and civil servants running your healthcare.
Only yesterday London's Daily Mail reports..
Look out America -- you want to know what Hillarycare 2 looks like?
Just a passing thought, the British have been trying to make their welfare state socialized medicine system work for 50 YEARS.
Think about that. You think British governments haven't already tried EVERY frackin' permutation to make a bureaucratic heavy system work?
Yet for some odd reason the NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE is an issue at EVERY election. Because no matter how much tax payers money politicians promise to spend, it's NEVER enough.
And guess what Democrats, it's the POLITICIANS who get the blame from voters when they don't get their hip replacement. or there's a three year waiting list for some vital operation.
"I completely disagree w
June 3, 2007 - 09:10 ET by ding7777No doubt, if you can afford to "hire a jet", you can afford the "good treatment". "
Ding, even so, the best treat
June 3, 2007 - 09:18 ET by Airforce_5_ODing, even so, the best treatment and doctors are here. Socialist Health care is not the answer. Look countries where is establish and you will see people still coming here to get the better treatments and quicker than being put on a state run waiting list for procedures to be done.
Try again.
.... And dying while waiting
June 3, 2007 - 10:03 ET by NL207.... And dying while waiting .....
This is the real evil of socialized medicine that the left has so far concealed from the public. Economic theory says that socialized medicine, that is, where the cost is articially lowered for the great majority, will cause two effects: (1) drive demand for services up (2) reduce the wages for providers and suppliers, thereby actually reducing the the total available healthcare. The systems that have imposed this have seen just this happen. They all have waiting lists for procedures, etc.
The great lie of socialized medicine is this: Everyone will have equal access to healthcare. This is demonstrably false in Canada, Cuba and anywhere else it has been tried. The ruling elite are not subject to any of the rationing that is imposed on the masses, nor are they constrained to see the state's chosen doctor. The wealthy in these systems can all opt out by going to a foreign country that doesn't impose such asinine regulation, as this thread indicates. If you are Elton John's boyfriend, you can get your medicine in a free system elsewhere.
Ding, you always focus on the wrong data...
June 3, 2007 - 10:00 ET by c5thenThe issue is not in the transportation used to get to the treatment, the issue is the treatment itself. The treatement that Furnes' father recieved was the same as you or I or anyone in this country would get. As with any socialized program, the standards are mediocre and the waiting lists are long. Many people diagnosed with serious life threatening conditions in England, Canada, France, etc. have very bad prognosees because they have to wait for so long to start the treatment that they need or get further expensive tests to narrow the diagnoses down.
Focus on this...If he could "afford" the jet to get him to the US for the "good treatment", why couldn't he just pay for the "good treatment" in Canada?
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
"No doubt, if you can
June 3, 2007 - 14:47 ET by ckc1227"No doubt, if you can afford to "hire a jet", you can afford the "good treatment". "
At least you're admitting, although by accident, that the treatment he had available in his own socialized health care system wasn't "the good treatment", which is kinda the point.
Don't feel bad though, whenever a lib DOES come up with the right answer(not often), it usually is by accident.
Like Fidel, eh, comrade?
June 3, 2007 - 20:58 ET by Roger the ShrubberLike Fidel, eh, comrade?
What's he doing?? Cuba is a
June 3, 2007 - 21:41 ET by dahliatraversWhat's he doing?? Cuba is a destination for good medical care. That's what Michael Moore says, anyway.
I cannot think of a more reso
June 4, 2007 - 10:36 ET by Roger the ShrubberI cannot think of a more resounding endorsement of a nation's health care system than when that nation's leader imports in his personal medical care.
Furnish's father actually fle
June 4, 2007 - 06:52 ET by Lynn DavidsonFurnish's father actually flew Air Canada not a private jet.
What about China? Univeral healthcare the communist way
June 3, 2007 - 16:22 ET by w0tmMaybe socialized heathcare is nirvana but going all the way to communist healthcare is not? In China, all are issued a government health card and then receive free health care. But, somehow, after over 60 years of their Universal Health Care, they haven't been able to get these cards to more than 10% of their population. At least the minister of health was honest (then probably shot when his comment was noticed in Time magazine) in saying they can't afford to care for more than 10%. So you have to be on a very long waiting list to get a health card. About ten lifetimes if you do the math. Or, actually, be among the elite as a communist party official or the like.
What do the others do while waiting to join the 10%? Just die (as fast as possible per government order). Occasionally, this Chinese health "Inconvenient Truth" leaks out like the fellow last year who refused to unchain himself from the gates of Tiananmen Square until he was admitted to a hospital to treat his failing kidneys. He managed to get Western Media to cover his story.
He was last seen -- well, actually, he wasn't last seen anywhere. Mr. Moore should have included China in his slocumentary. I believe U.S. law allows U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba under certain circumstances. To receive life saving medical care would surely be among those allowed circumstances. I don't plan to view the film but, please, someone count the number of Americans waiting in line for visas to travel to Cuba for health care. No cheating by showing sick Canadians waiting to cross the border into Detroit. The "Welcome to Michigan" sign will be a sure giveaway.
And, w0tm, once the governmen
June 3, 2007 - 16:41 ET byAnd, w0tm, once the government takes something over, as with the states' education systems, the government then thinks it is the boss and does not even want people to handle things themselves.
Basically, the government would then not allow us to handle our own health care, if we wished to.
Socialism is un-American.
Debra...
Typical hypocritical limo lib
June 3, 2007 - 17:40 ET by Dad GummitTypical hypocritical limo lib, this More Michael. I guaran-dam-tee you that when he goes in to get his heart bypass done, (just a matter of time for him-obviously) or to have that tumor removed from his brain he won't be doing it outside this country he hates so much.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."