This Memorial Day, weep for our failures


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Editorial: This Memorial Day, weep for our failures

We have not supported our troops in the ways that matter most.

Published: May 28, 2007

Today this nation celebrates yet another in a long line of wartime Memorial Days. This one is doubly sad because the war now being waged in Iraq is such an unnecessary, fruitless war. And that makes each death there a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

Soldiers understand they may die in war; the risk comes with the rifle and boots of military life. But there's a solemn bargain made when young people accept that risk. They put their unrealized dreams and hopes for adulthood on the line for the sake of their nation. They depend on the rest of us to guarantee that when they go as bidden into harm's way, their nation's safety truly is at risk. This is where we, the American people, have failed the troops in Iraq. We have not adequately kept our part in this sacred partnership with them. We have allowed them to be sent to die where they should not.

America did the same four decades ago, in Vietnam, and failed to learn the central lesson. But Americans did learn one thing, perhaps too well. In Vietnam, the public blamed the troops. Some people humiliated them and showed horrible disrespect for their service and sacrifice.

This time, the public has been determined to "support the troops." The support they really needed was action to keep them home from Iraq, safe from needless risk. America failed at that, but once troops were committed, everyone was determined not to let them down.

But Americans did just that, allowing the rallying cry of "support the troops" to be hijacked. Anyone brave enough to seek an end to the mindless American occupation of Iraq is accused of "abandoning the troops." The accusation, heavily overlaid with scurrilous tones of treason and surrender and cowardice, has so badly frightened members of Congress that they have forfeited their one strong, constitutionally prescribed method for stopping this endless and aimless war: refusing to further fund it.

This turns logic on its head. Defunding the war is the best way to support the troops, the only way that really matters. It is the best way to keep them safe. It is the only way Congress can force the Bush administration to bring them home -- alive.

Imagine the bravery it takes to be effective in battle, to put aside all personal fears, to ignore the in-our-bones imperative to remain safe -- all because it is your duty to your country. How much less bravery it should take for Congress to stop this madness, and for the rest of us to support that action.

To the cemeteries please travel today, and make time to pay sincere homage to the dead from Iraq. Our failures to truly support them while they were alive, by keeping them safe from unnecessary war, make our debt to them now truly incalculable.


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wondering

...and you wonder why we say you hate your country.

 "HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

LeftWing is a filthy pig

Out of respect for our war dead, I held myself back on Memorial Day, but now that Memorial Day is past, I will speak my mind about the filthy pig,  LeftWing.   

He knew perfectly well that, especially on Memorial Day, his words would rub salt in the wounds of those of us who honor our military.   In fact, this evil, slimy, little man delighted in twisting the knife on a sacred day.   

It means nothing to him that Memorial Day has specifically been set aside as a non-political day.   America-hater that he is, he will take every opportunity to slam our country and those who love it.   

LeftWing, you piece of shit, you deserve no courtesy on this board, and I call on other posters to give you the treatment you earned on Memorial Day!

Guess you didn't notice tha

Guess you didn't notice that I posted this AFTER Memorial Day?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

I noticed that you posted some tripe ON Memorial Day

What I noticed is that you posted some anti-American tripe ON Memorial Day.   This thread will do, pigfeces.

WhichWing, you appall me. Not

WhichWing, you appall me. Not only because I am active duty USAF, but as an American as well.

Memorial Day is for honoring our soldiers and their sacrifices...every one of them that has served. We should never take our focus off of the true reason for Memorial Day to wallow in guilt or sadness over political differences. Defunding this war is no way to show any support for our troops...in fact it is pulling the rug out from under them and postponing the battles they are currently engaged in until they come to our shores, at which point our civilian population will be susceptable to attacks. If you continue to fight them over there we likely will not have to fight them over here.

And even if you don't support the current war, what about paying homage to the ill-equipped, barely trained rag-tag bunch of farmers (that mostly made up the Continental Army) that stood up to King George III and the most powerful army and navy in the world? Their actions allowed us (and much of the rest of the world) to live free.

Or in 1812, when our still fledgling nation stood up to Britian's bullying and subversion.

Or in the 1860's the American Civil War.

Or the Spanish-American War.

Or the Filipino-American War.

Or WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the Viet Nam War, or the Gulf War.

And don't forget all the troops that served in "peacetime" but still maintained their readiness to protect freedom and liberty.

All told, millions of American men and women have served in the armed forces. Some have seen the horrors of combat, some have been fortunate to not. All have made sacrifices to give birth to this free nation or to help it continue in liberty and freedom. From the teen-aged farm boy volunteers in the American Revolution to the pilot of the Enola Gay in August 1945, to Medal of Honor recipient (post humously) Marine Corporal Jason Dunham in 2004, all of them have been heroes in one way or another deserving of our gratitude and our thoughts and prayers.

Chances are, some of your relatives and your forefathers served this country and protected our freedom and liberty. At the very least honor them. Would your grand-daddy be proud or ashamed of you?

In the past I have spent Memorial Day at the American Cemetery (2001) at Normandy and at the American Cemetery in Luxembourg (where Patton is buried with his men) (2002). Even some Europeans come out and helped us place flags on every grave in honor of American troops that fought for their freedom. One of the greatest honors I've had as a serviceman was to perform the Retreat Ceremony and fold the Old Glory on Memorial Day at the Cemetery in Luxembourg with some of the European veterans, whom I might add had the utmost respect for our flag and American Servicemen. There is a monument overlooking the 9,387 graves at Normandy called "Spirit of American Youth Rising from the Waves". Many of the older generations of Western Europeans will tell you that America's youth saved them from tyranny. Sadly, with the type of sentiment you post here and with what is being taught to our children in schools, colleges, and universities much of today's youth believe nothing--not even freedom or liberty--is worth fighting for.

Memorial Day is for honoring our military. Past and present. It is not for petty squabbling and politicized messages.

"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt

Well said Mean Gene.

Well said Mean Gene.

On history and the meaninglessness thereof

Mean Gene, what are you doing bringing up a meaningless subject like history in here??? 

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

WhichWing

WW, you say this nonsense knowing these Servicemen and women would die to save your life thus giving you the opportunity to laugh at the suckers as they fall.

Memorial Day is sacred.  So is my country.

Guess it's silly of me to ask where's your sense of decency.

Well he's a piteous moron

Well he's a piteous moron. Look at that last line, he is filled with guilt over not getting his way with our foreign policy. I'd say it's one step up from screaming Bush murdered 655,000 Iraqis, in the sense that instead of blaming someone else for their own opinion, one day of the year they can blame themselves, for having their idiotic opinion, and being helpless and incompetent in having it carried out.

 I've got say, it was a minor step up for the crybaby traitors.

As a Veteran and one who has

As a Veteran and one who has seen the suffering and pain of two wars let me say you are an asshole.

I may be kicked of this blog for a week or so but you are the definition of what is wrong with the liberal movement in this country.  You and your ilk will never understand the meaning of things like duty and honor.  You will never understand the camaraderie or the pure sense of team work.  You will never understand the personal sacrifice of those who go to war or those they leave behind.  You will never understand why a person would lay down their life for liberty and justice whither here or abroad. 

You will only sit and belittle the military and its Commander and Chief.  You can only sit behind a computer and snicker under the assumption that you have the right to speak for the military.  If anyone is letting them down right now is you and your ilk

As Pelosi, Clinton, Obama, Murtha, Reid, and every other liberal who votes against the troops, men and women die to defend their right to do so.  The previous before mentioned individuals try at every foot step to derail the efforts of our military to do their job.  That job is to Fight and Win.

If you want to weep for our failures then go right ahead.  Weep for the failures of the liberals to push their appeasement agenda.  But please spare your pity for those who fight for your rights.  They are too busy fighting our enemies in the field and in the Congress.  

AF-thanks for saying that--

AF-thanks for saying that--now I don't have to.

Go America!!!

Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?  And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?

Sir  Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard

No prob mrbill.  I wish this

No prob mrbill.  I wish this person was here with me looking theses young people in the face and say what I just read.  He might be walking funny when he left.  All the boots up there.

AF...great

I would like to add that Freedom isn't Free. If not for the sacrifices of our military, many Freedoms we enjoy could be lost. Look around the world: Cuba, China, Venezuela ... all in the news lately regarding suppression of speech.

Thank you to all who serve and who have served. God Bless you and all of the fallen.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.

WW....Blah blah blah....Try b

WW....

Blah blah blah....

Try being grateful for those who have shed their blood for you to have the right to post your crap...

That is what Memorial Day is about.

Those fallen soldiers who gave the ultimate sacrifice for you to whine.

Incessantly.

Too bad you guys can't hand

Too bad you guys can't handle another point of view.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

lol -WW the crybaby liar

lol -WW the crybaby liar.

Too bad you can't handle another point of view.

Hey, moron, the USA coalition already won the war, you idiot. They deposed Saddam, changed to the interim government, then allowed a collection of reps and their were several MASSIVE nationwide votes. The new government took their rightful place.

 THAT'S CALLED A TOTAL WIN. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

 Now, we are in another war with terorists, one that indeed the terrorists fomented, and we all saw their plans beforehand on the released CD that was captured.

 BUT,we have a President who has not backed down, and has stood firm in the face of your endless traitorous LIES. I'm sure that burns all you whiners to the core. It's absolutely eats you alive, you're insane over it, you've proven your mental obsession over him absolutely consumes you, all of you. Now this last vote ripped apart your hope to defeat him, and the USA. 

 That is your painful truth. Bush and the USA troops have suceeded, and the new Iraq NG is being trained and built up, and bit by bit you lying liberals are losing, losing, losing, your chance to destroy it all.  That's eating you in the gut too, deep down inside you idiot liberals spewed across America a couple years ago the worst sentence you ever had to utter in your estimation, " Bush was right ".

 It's going to dig inside you till the day you die, and every day you fail to force the Coalition winners to remove from the scene of their victories, it's one more day the final historical truth will slap you to the dirt for your stupidity.

 I am enjoying your bitter failure. You're a loser, and the USA troops and the Coalition and the new Iraq Government are the WINNERS, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

We can certainly handle other

We can certainly handle other points of view that are backed up with clear facts, rather than obfuscated insinuations and already disproven talking points. If you take my tag line below as any indication of how conservatives think, you’ll be better armed to come in here and enter the arena of ideas. Don’t try and push already disproven propaganda, and offer up new hypotheses as to why things are the way they are. Just saying something is a fact does not make it so. You must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is true.

For example, when we say Saddam had WMD. This was a very true point. He did. We discovered many of them (albeit older WMD) after the invasion. Yet more went missing that we had found. The General of Saddam’s Air Force stated that the remaining WMD was moved to Syria during a emergency aid flight when Saddam’s regime was helping with a dam bursting disaster in Syria. Now you have every right to call his man a liar, however, you must first prove that he is a liar before your accusation will hold any weight.

Take for example the quote from Thomas Paine below. From our best estimate (all intelligence agencies of the western world) Saddam had these weapons. For years, this man was playing a shell game and the inspectors were never going to be able to visit all sites with impunity. We can only reason from what is.... on actualities, not on possibilities, and it would have been negligent of Bush to not take Saddam out based on what was known. No matter if vast quantities of WMD were found or not.... (some obviously were), the country and the region are better off with him out of there.

Now we are willing to use the occasion of Memorial Day to honor the fallen, and give thanks to their families and their sacrifice.... what we don't need at this moment is a little liberal puke impugning their effort and sacrifice with your lies. You do it for the rest of the 365 days, save this day, our memorial day, for them you selfish little punk.

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

Pretty harsh, why don't you

Pretty harsh, why don't you pass your thoughts on to the author of this editorial?

Is there someone I can share things with before I post them? With everybody being so sensitive you should have someone who screens topics before they are posted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

If you post it without any ed

If you post it without any editorial of your own.... you agree with the sentiments 100%. This is how it will be perceived. If that is the case.... you are completely wrong along with the author of that piece.

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

I wasn't aware that an opinio

I wasn't aware that an opinion could be "completely wrong."

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

What part of the opinion &quo

What part of the opinion "torturing babies for fun" is correct if it can't be completely wrong? 

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

I think you are the only on

I think you are the only one with "torturing babies for fun" on their mind.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

WWPure avoidanceYou made an a

WW

Pure avoidance

You made an assertion, I gave an example which refutes your assertion, that is unless you want to defend 'torturing babies for fun' as NOT being completely  wrong?

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

OK, I say that an OPINION c

OK, I say that an OPINION cannot be "completely wrong" and want to know about "torturing babies for fun?" I will not defend that statement. I will say that it is my OPINION that torturing babies is wrong. What is your OPINION on the matter?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

I say torturing babies IS wro

I say torturing babies IS wrong and anyone who holds that opinion IS wrong.  Based on that i defend having a criminal justice system to deal with people who do such wrongs.  So i would extrapolate that according to you NAMBLA's opinion of men with 4 year olds can not be wrong?

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

botg - I pray that God in His infinite wisdom---

botg - I pray that God in His infinite wisdom---will have me accidentally locked in a room with one of those aberrant (fill in word of your choice).

I am a hypocrite--I am opposed to abortion, but not opposed to ending the life of a worm like one of them.

that isn't being hypocritic

that isn't being hypocritical..as a baby in the womb is innocent...and a scumbag is a scumbag

I do not have to agree with

I do not have to agree with someone in order to believe that they have a right to their opinion.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

WW, I believe that people ha

WW,
I believe that people have a right to their opinion even if their opinion is completely wrong. That was never the issue and you know it.

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

OK, I say that an OPINION can

OK, I say that an OPINION cannot be "completely wrong

I say that an opinion can be completely wrong

Am i right? or wrong?

If i'm right, i'm right; if i'm wrong, you're wrong

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

Well played.

I disagree that an opinion can be completely wrong, but well played.

WW I disagree that an opinio

WW
I disagree that an opinion can be completely wrong, but well played.
Poor attempt to avoid.

I say an opinion can be completely wrong.
Am I correct or incorrect?
Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

I disagree with your assess

I disagree with your assessment.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

And i say you are wrong Su

And i say you are wrong

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

If I were to say that the m

If I were to say that the most beautiful color in the world was green, would I be right, or wrong? You might agree and say I'm right, but the next guy could disagree and say we are both wrong. That's why it's an opinion. You can have an opinion that you believe to be correct, and if I disagree with it, it does not make your opinion wrong.

I can't believe how long the meaning of opinion has been dragged on here. In my opinion, its ridiculous.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

WW,  change your first premi

WW,  change your first premise from "green is beautiful" to "drinking Drano is healthly" you cherry picked a purely subjective premise.

I say an opinion can be wrong if your opinion is "Drinking Drano is healthy"

I too can not believe that you can not admit the obvious but if you wish to reveal the depths of your pride. . . .

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

But "drinking Draino i

But "drinking Draino is healthy " is not an opinion. It can be proven that it is in fact unhealthy to drink draino. I am now convinced that you do not know what opinion means.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Someone can still have the op

Someone can still have the opinion that drinking Drano is healthy. Just as some people think Jimmy Carter was a great president. Or that communism is the way to go. Or Socialism will work with the right person in charge. Personal opinions are/can be mutually exclusive from fact. That is why they are called 'opinions'. Your definition of opinion is about as narrow as your definition of patriotism is broad.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

So you are saying an opinio

So you are saying an opinion can't be 'completely wrong'??? BOTG is going to be crushed.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

No. I am saying an opinion

No. I am saying an opinion can be completely wrong still...it just depends upon the opinion.

Seriously...reading comprehension...look into it.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

"it just depends on th

"it just depends on the opinion"

How long do you suppose you'll be able to straddle that fence?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Seriously...reading comprehen

Seriously...reading comprehension...look into it.

Thanks botg, I get tired of

Thanks botg, I get tired of repeating myself to WW.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

What were we talking about?&q

What were we talking about?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

  We were saying that your

  We were saying that your opinion that 'an opinion can't be completely wrong' is wrong.  And that's my opinion.   Because if your opinion is right then my opinion is right and your opinion is wrong.  Got it Norman? 

"Soldiers understand t

"Soldiers understand they may die in war; the risk comes with the rifle and boots of military life. But there's a solemn bargain made when young people accept that risk. They put their unrealized dreams and hopes for adulthood on the line for the sake of their nation. They depend on the rest of us to guarantee that when they go as bidden into harm's way, their nation's safety truly is at risk. This is where we, the American people, have failed the troops in Iraq. We have not adequately kept our part in this sacred partnership with them. We have allowed them to be sent to die where they should not."

Is that the part you all object to?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Nope... we object to the fact

Nope... we object to the fact that you are calling all of their deaths "For nothing" or basically saying that their deaths are "Worthless!"

Maybe you can ignore reports like this, that state that nearly 70% of the insurgents are not native Iraqis.... they come from other Gulf states via Syria and Iran mostly. Even the story gets it wrong.... if they're not from Iraq, then they are not insurgents.... they are terrorists.... they are Al Qaeda mostly. Al Qaeda is a Suni group.... hence.... Saddam and his buds would help them.... as they are all Suni. You can put your head in the sand and tell our troops they are dying needlessly, but that just makes you an idiot and a tool.

Look at Lebanon... this fight is not just a single country fight. This fight cannot and will not be contained in Afghanistan. You are either willfully ignoring that fact, or you are just too stupid to realize that Al Qaeda is all over the place... including still in the US. This is a global war... and unless we are in it to win.... and that means wipe them from the face of the Earth entirely.... we will lose.

____________________________________________________

"It's not that they're [liberals] not aware of all the things we're aware of, it's that they need to reject them in order to remain in this five-year-old utopia that they've been told is the only hope for mankind." ~ Evan Sayet

Al-Qaeda hated Saddam, and

Al-Qaeda hated Saddam, and they are very pleased he is not in power anymore. When you point out that "70% of the insurgents are not native Iraqis," you should see what is wrong with this war. We are bringing terrorism to the Iraqi people.

Are you suggesting that we tear up a country of 26 million people for the removal of one man? And then invite terrorists in? Because that's what you got.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

The terrorists were already t

The terrorists were already there in Iraq. They didn't hate Saddam, they were in negotiations with Saddam and Saddam had training grounds where terrorists would get training.

Ever hear of Salman Pak? Yeah, I thought you might have... well, this is where terrorists received training. Many of them were from the Palestinian territories or from Lebanon. But Saddam was a Sunni... and he helped Sunni terror groups all over. You know he was paying bombers 25,000 posthumously right?

Did you know that the Sunni terror groups in Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian territories are allies with Al Qaeda and have been since the mid 90s? Maybe not! Maybe you are really truly ignorant of the cancer that these groups have become and that those who support them have become.

Syria and Iran are next... maybe not soon since we first have to defeat you idiots at the ballot box, but eventually, we're going to have to take them out.

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

Hey, we destroyed two countri

Hey, we destroyed two countries - Germany and Japan - to remove their governments.  Do you also disapprove of WWII?

Besides, Iraq already had terrorists, such as Abu Nidal.  But then, reading has never been your strong point, along with intellectual honesty.

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

Asshat down! Asshat down!

Unnecessary war?  So just what is your definition of a necessary war?  Not too intune with any history or agenda are we?  All this tripe tells me is that either you have never served or did (very shortly) and are grudged.  Just by the statement concerning stopping funding, you think that funding only is for OIF?  This shows when you don't know what you're talking about, it's best just to shut your pie hole and move on.  When funding is cut more is hurt than what you think (70's and 90's flashback) and the cry of support the troops has been hijacked by asshats who think that de-funding the military is somehow going to help us.  I don't need your damn help or your clown comments.  We're doing just fine here and getting the job done.  If you don't think so then cowboy up and come on over.  You obviously have no clue as to what's going on and somehow live in this fancifull land that believes if we leave here everything is going to be bubblegum waterfalls and puppies.  Think apeasement works?  Maybe you ought to take a look at some of the countries that think up your ally and believed apeasement would keep them out of the fight for their lives.  Lastly, don't speak on my behalf, cause you don't, nor for my troops and our mission.

"72 Virgins Dating Service, We'll Hook You Up"

Well said SS75. I've been say

Well said SS75. I've been saying for years that I wish these moronic clowns harping about "helping the troops" and "doing what's best for the troops", and "the troops need this or don't need that" would grow a pair and stand where we have stood. Put the uniform on, live in a shit-hole for a while, dodge a few mortars, listen to this insane and inane rhetoric while protecting it, and then maybe they would have something to talk about. At least they would have a basis of knowledge before spouting off.

The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers

Beowulf

Beowulf: I agree with you. The biggest fear that people like WW have is that they would have to put on a military uniform and defend the country. I have and am damn proud of it!

Your biggest fear is that y

Your biggest fear is that your claim of "defending the country" will be exposed for the lie that it is. I would defend my country in a heartbeat, if there was indeed a threat. But invading a nation thousands of miles away that has never threatened our national security, and who did not have the means to do so, does not meet the criteria.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

So our pilots patrolling th

So our pilots patrolling the No-Fly Zones that Saddam fired upon (almost on a daily basis) aren't worth defending in your opinion? When one country fires upon another country's pilots, that's usually an act of war.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

Sanctions are an act of war

Sanctions are an act of war as well.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Oh, please!Sanctions are a pu

Oh, please!

Sanctions are a punitive action for belligerent behavior. The sanctions placed upon Saddam were a direct result of his invasion of Kuwait and the subsequent war, then his killing of the Kurds.

So is a traffic fine justification for me to wage war against my local police force? If I feel the fine is uncalled for or too excessive, I can take my case up in traffic court.

Saddam appealed his case to the U.N., but the sanctions were upheld by the U.N., they even gave him the Oil for Food program to lessen the pain. Oil for Food turned out to be highly lucrative for Saddam and certain U.N. officials as well. Probably so lucrative it negated any economic impact the sanctions would've had in the first place.

You make me laugh when you make absurd comments.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson

WW

WW: Your own words prove my point. If the threat did not meet your personal criteria  then you would do as you are doing now. Finding a reason to criticize.

What are your personal standards for defending the country?

WW, when you talk about your

WW, when you talk about your country, which country are you talking about? With your attitude, we wouldent have fought in WW I or WW II. After all, our country was not attacked before we became engaged in either one. Hawaii was not at state at the time. Nor would we have become involved in Korea. Tell me, what is your country. Cant be the US. Least ways, I hope not. You sound french. 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

oui oui oui

All the way home.

Lysdexics Untie!

Going to war to defend your

Going to war to defend your country, or in defense of another can be justified. Invading another country that poses no threat to anyone's national security cannot. (I feel like I'm repeating myself.)

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Hmmm...Iraq invaded Kuwait, a

Hmmm...Iraq invaded Kuwait, and was ONLY kept at bay after getting kicked out of Kuwait by such Operations as Northern Watch and Southern Watch

Sounds like a threat to national security to me! 

Thanks, WhichWhine, for justifying our pre-emptive strike on Iraq. 

(seems to me that according to your very own logic, we shouldn't be in Korea, either.  The North Koreans weren't threatening us...we should have let them take and enslave that whole peninsula.  Right?)

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

Guess you only read the fir

Guess you only read the first half of my statement, the second half said in defense of other nations as well...

How long ago was Iraq kicked out of Kuwait?

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

That is immaterial.  That co

That is immaterial.  That could have happened in 1890, but no peace treaty was signed terminating hostilities.  Likewise, a state of war still exists between North and South Korea because the war there ended in an armistice, not a peace treaty.  And that has been getting played out for close to 54 years. 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

OK, you've won the arguemen

OK, you've won the arguement with yourself, that you started with yourself, about South Korea.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

OK, I answered your silly que

OK, I answered your silly question with an answer you don't like and can't come up with a snarky comment to retort with.  I understand. 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!

You just go on thinking tha

You just go on thinking that way and maybe it will eventually evolve into the truth. Assuming you believe in evolution that is.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Clown Downing Confirmed

Clown down! Clown down!

I'll take your reply as my post being on target.

"Stupid Should Hurt"

 "And that makes each d

 "And that makes each death there a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions"

cept Queen Elizabeth didnt have to deal with the military industrial complex instead of how the Madness of King George deals with them. :)

A free press is one of the first things to go in a totalitarian government. Montana Lyons

Considering that there are pe

Considering that there are people who have gotten thrown in the slam over the proposal to have the Air Force lease tankers from Boeing over various improper dealings, I'd say that blows your little theory of there being a "military industrial complex" straight to hell, doesn't it?

But then, MT Lyons/rhayes/schmidt, you are just extremely angry that this nation isn't a massive Nanny State... 

MAKE WAY FOR THE SAN ANTONIO SPURS!!!  THE 1999, 2003, 2005, AND 2007 NBA CHAMPIONS!!!!