Reuters wants us to know that Republican Senators who block honors for “environmentalist pioneers” are bad but they don’t want to just come right out and say so, of course. So, they write a story that presents the environut in question as akin to a saint and the Republican Senator as somehow “arbitrary” and mean. This particular story from Reuters is a classic example of advocacy on the sly by presenting the “wrong” side of the issue as the uninformed or mean protagonist to the innocent and well meaning good guys.
In question is an honorific for what many imagine is the Godmother of the environut movement, Rachel Carson, the woman responsible for destroying the reputation of DDT, a life-saving insecticide that once helped control a killer called malaria all over the world. A resolution to honor Carson’s 100th birthday was to be introduced by Maryland’s Democrat Senator Ben Cardin, but Cardin put the brakes on his plans when it became clear that Senator Tom Coburn (R, OK) would use Senate rules to oppose the effort.
Reuters sets the subtle tone of chastisement for the Republican Senator with the title of their piece: Senator blocks honor for environmental pioneer. Eeeevil, mean Senator! Bad, bad man. And attacking a nice “pioneer”, yet!
The first two paragraphs present Senator Coburn as some lone man (obviously a nut, eh?) who “believes” that Rachel Carson was wrong in her “pioneering” environmentalist work.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A plan to honor environmental pioneer and "Silent Spring" author Rachel Carson on her centennial on Sunday was blocked by a U.S. senator who believes Carson created a climate of "hysteria and misinformation."
Sen. Tom Coburn derailed approval of a Senate resolution honoring the life of Carson, whose 1962 book "Silent Spring" warned of the dangers posed to wildlife and humans by the pesticide DDT and who is credited with inspiring the modern environmental movement.
Notice the subtleties? Coburn “believes”, Coburn “derailed”. But Carson was a “pioneer” and “inspired” the “modern” environmental movement. Notice the negative language for Republican Coburn but positive language for the environut?
It gets worse for Senator Coburn whose side of the argument is couched as just his belief, not one supported by any consensus, where as Carson is hailed as the best and brightest that everyone just loves.
Sen. Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat who planned the Senate honor for Carson and expected an easy approval in time for what would have been her 100th birthday, was taken by surprise by Coburn’s decision to block it.
"Rachel Carson has been an inspiration to a generation of environmentalists, scientists and biologists who made a difference and changed the irresponsible use of pesticides," Cardin said in a telephone interview. "Honoring her 100th birthday should not be controversial. I wanted to share that with our country.”
Notice how Reuters gives Ben Cardin the forum to say how shocking this effort by Coburn is? Notice also how Rueters gives Carson the mantle of non-controversial figure that is an “inspiration” to a generation that changed “irresponsible use of pesticides”?
Then Reuters gives Cardin the opportunity to claim that Senator Coburn is just bowing to money grubbing, industry lobbyists that wants to make money from DDT without giving Coburn any room to protest that view of his stand.
Cardin said Coburn's rejection of the honor for Carson was inappropriate and arbitrary.
"What Sen. Coburn is doing is basically citing the line of the interest groups ... because they had an economic interest in DDT,” Cardin said.
Ah, the old he’s-just-in-it-for-the-money jab! I suppose that we couldn’t be permitted to believe that Senator Coburn truly believes that the banning of DDT is responsible for killing millions since the 1970’s, could we?
Nah.
The Reuters piece ends by showing us how everyone but Coburn loves environmentalist Carson:
Carson, who died in 1964, will not go without tributes on Sunday: there will be a celebration and feast at her family homestead in Springdale, Pennsylvania, and the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh has an exhibit in her honor
It’s almost as if Reuters was saying, “See? That darned old money grubbing Coburn is an idiot! Everyone ELSE loves our Rachel!”
Yes, this is a classically subtle hatchet job on a Republican meant to bring the reader to the conclusion that Coburn is out in left field on an issue that everyone else understands, that this money grubbing Republican is just a fool.
But, Coburn isn’t the only person who is attacking the death laden legacy of Rachel Carson. More and more people are realizing that her famous book, Silent Spring, was full of unsupported opinion and junk science. Even initial admirers of her realized her lies were monumental. (Left-winger Ronald Bailey has also outed Carson as a danger to mankind.)
But, Reuters didn’t see their way clear to tell us that story, only to assure us that everyone but Coburn thought this “pioneer” was worth honoring.
Just one more example of advocacy replacing “journalism” in our world today.
Comments Policy
Yes, let's all support a trea
May 25, 2007 - 21:33 ET by UnsaneYes, let's all support a treaty that punishes the United States over and over and over again, but exempts such nations as China, India, Mexico, and Brazil, among others.
Oh yes, it also does NOTHING to protect the rainforests.
But it does alleviate much self-inflicted guilt at living in the world's most successful and advanced economy.
I prefer to support Kyoto - that is, support Kyoto's economy by visiting that city over and over again. It's quite a place - too bad its name is associated with a protocol whose sole purpose is to loot the United States economy.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane
May 25, 2007 - 22:12 ET by shawn228I'm not saying Al Gore is right or I agree with this thread. I'm saying the USA has to lead by example. We can be doing much more than we doing at the present moment. I am one of those crazy Liberals that believes in global warming. If the USA leads by example, others will follow. Yes I admit because of the mms, other countries see the examples of:
torture
major infighting amongst our government
Scooter Libby conviction
The continuing saga of Gonzales
The tesitomy of Goodling.
Paul Wolfivich
Last but not least the visit the visit Card and Gonzales gave to John Ashcroft. Yes I know Ashcroft has not spoke yet on the matter, but I believe he former deputy attorney general. He would risk jail time to lie abou what happenned and he said this while under oath. That vist to the hospital happenned. If it did not happen Bush would be admitting he had nothing to do with it.
Agree with what is on the tvs stations does not matter. These are the images the rest of the world sees. We cannot go it alone. I am covinced if we had all the countries that were with us during desert storm from the beginning, Iraq would be stabile right now. If we lose the respect of the world there will be mutiny and the USA will not be the standard bearer right now.
If the USA leads on this...Ev
May 25, 2007 - 22:28 ET by UnsaneIf the USA leads on this...
Everyone else on earth will stand around and be appreciative that we shackled ourselves so that they can get ahead. (You will probably feel warm and good inside, as your guilt will be assuaged.) I am not interested in doing that.
Let me tell you what I saw in Beijing when I was there. I live in Houston and have lived in Denver, and have been to Los Angeles. I have not seen worse pollution anywhere else in the world other than Beijing. I have the pictures to prove it. And, by the way, the Chinese are adding the equivalent of the pwoer generating capacity of Great Britain every year. Guess what they are using to power this? Coal. Not exactly the cleanest of power sources.
I don't see armies of Leftists and Greenies bawling in front of the Chinese embassy about this. I just hear lots of whining that we are just too successful, and the ONLY way we can stop the destruction of the world is to shackle our own people and economy, and let everyone else play catch up.
As for your deep concern about whether or not the rest of the world respects us - screw them. We saved the world from tyranny twice in the 20th Century - three times if you count the Cold War. We have bestowed upon the world many inventions and innovations that allow the world to communicate and travel faster and more efficiently than any other period in human history. The United States of America has done more for the world in its 231 years of existence than some countries have managed to do in hundreds, if not thousands, of years. I'll be damned if I ever let the thought cross my mind that we need to go groveling before others for "respect". Besides, I much prefer the United States be feared worldwide. You MIGHT want to shake off that personal self-inflicted guilt you are shouldering...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
We don't have a choice
May 25, 2007 - 22:48 ET by shawn228Well if we are not nice to the other parts of world. You notice how
our dollar is dropping? I know you like visting Canada Unsane, dollar
does no go very far there doesn't it. The Euro is so much higher the
American dollar right now. Also don't forget the USA is 9 trillion in
debt. What if one of the countries we owe money to decides to call in
their loan. Lets use the country you talked about earlier. If China
wans all its money now, do we bomb them? Would a person foreclosed
on their loan uses violence? Admit it or not, but America is weaker now
in the financial sense. What good is a great economy and stock market
when we are so much in dept?
Yes its feels great right now, Economy is humming. At same time our national dept is growing more and more
No shawn, we have reduced the
May 25, 2007 - 22:53 ET by bigtimerNo shawn, we have reduced the debt at a rate that is pissing the leftists off so much they cannot see straight, but if your side of the aisle has anything to do with it we will not.
big timer
May 25, 2007 - 23:02 ET by shawn228First of all bigtimer. 2 replies from you and not one personal attack. That is amazing and I am pleasantly surprised:) I really don't see how you can say we trimmed our dept except for limiting the accued anuual dept. I really don't see how we paying this dept bigtimer. The money for the Iraq war for which might cost a trillion dollars at the end.. Where will the money for the Iraq funding bill come from bigtimer? Thats right, from foreign countries. If you disagree. Please tell me how we are funding this war.
shawn, First off, cute first
May 25, 2007 - 23:07 ET by bigtimershawn,
First off, cute first sarcastic sentence.
Second google it and also watch the stock market shows like cnbc...or listen to the President now and then.
Third...you go back and answer all the danged questions I asked you with your other cute post you made about how this country had better do this and that to be liked ect....do not avoid it...or else I call you chicken.
Oh, goody! A Left-leaning p
May 26, 2007 - 00:47 ET by UnsaneOh, goody! A Left-leaning populist!
That money will come from right here in the United States, in the form of income taxes that will be paid by the producers (well, the top 60% of wage earners will pay 99.94% of the taxes while the poor get away scot-free).
Note: only about one-third of our debt is owned by foreign countries that you seem to intensely fear. I would imagine that if Congress worried more about funding the war and less about funding bridges to nowhere and other unnecessary pork projects, we might be making headway on the debt...not to mention privatizing Social Security...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
The dollar is dropping. So
May 26, 2007 - 00:43 ET by UnsaneThe dollar is dropping. So what? It is still the world's reserve currency, because we are the #1 economy in the world. Not China, not Japan, and sure as all hell NOT the rotting EU.
The pound is even higher than the euro. Does this mean that Brittania shall Rule again?
The rotting EU's high euro is hampering many of their member economies, such as Italy. It's not all its cracked up to be. Not to mention the very serious problems Europe has, with a contracting population and the constant interference of the dead hand of the State. If Europe's economy is so divine and wonderful, perhaps you can explain to me why they are outsourcing work to...the United States?
Nine trillion in debt? That sounds awfully high. Five, I'd believe. But fine, let;'s go with that figure. I find it amusing that Leftists are crying about that, while at the same time, wanting the government to do MORE and MORE. Hell, shawn, you stated yourself that you want the government providing your health care! And SUDDENLY you are concerned about our debt? And what's this business about China? Oh, let me guess. You are one of those who whine that "China owns all our debt!" Right, a nation with a smaller economy than Brazil owning our debt. Oh ok...
Other nations who buy debt here but our debt because unlike other nations, we aren't about to "lose it" tomorrow. (Not in the sense of nations like Cote d'Ivoire, Pakistan, or perhaps Turkey, for some examples. I suppose Japan can recall its money, but why would it want to, when it can just as easily safely earn interest here?
America CAN be weaker in the financial sense, if we just continue to muddle along and not get our house in order (if we privatized Social Security that would go a LONG way, but too many crybabies want desperately for the Nanny Government to baby them...). Oh, and if we actually monitored what Congress does. I like the idea of a Knik Arm bridge in Anchorage, but why should I pay in federal tax dollars to see that thing built (for example)?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane
May 26, 2007 - 01:08 ET by shawn228Europes economy is not so hot right now, but a country like Canada with a decent government health plan is thriving. bigtimer could not seem to answer the question, perhaps you could. Where is the money coming to fund 2 wars, Katrina and giving to every needy charity case in the world? China, a smaller economy than Brazil? Are you including Hong Kong and Macaa? I'm sure you have a link somewhere, could i see it please?
One thing you have to know ab
May 26, 2007 - 01:24 ET by UnsaneOne thing you have to know about me, shawn, is that most of my sources are hard-copies. I got that statistic on Brazil from a special report on Brazil from The Economist. That might be about a month or so old now, if you wished to peruse economist.com to find it (but some of that site charges fees).
Canada has a decent government health plan? Good to see you are so deeply concerned with the debt, but yet, are aching for the day when the U.S. government provides your doctor for "free"! You should take the time to work out that contradiction...
Canada is doing well because of Alberta and its oil industry. Most of that oil - along with most other Canadian natural resources - heads straight here, and that is responsible for the rise of the loonie as of late. That provides a mild upset for the Canadian and provincial governments (especially Ontario's), because they would much rather see the loonie rising due to Canada's exporting of manufactured goods. That's not what's happening, however. In fact, if the price of oil per barrel dropped considerably (could happen), I could see the loonie drop at that point as well.
If Canada's health care system is so WONDERFUL, perhaps you can explain why hospitals south of the border often see Canadian patients. I'll tell you why: because in Canada, for many different procedures, you have to wait months to get them done. Here in the United States, if you pay the bill, you are 100% in, and they will take care of you at the time of your choosing. Or, if Canada's health care is so divine, why are the provinces constantly griping at the federal government to pay for the ever increasing costs of providing this freebie? Or, if this system is SO GREAT, then why, according to a December 2005 special report on Canada in The Economist, why are Canadians C$7200 poorer on average than Americans doing similar work, a gap that has widened considerably since 1981?
The money to fund our military ops will come from American taxpayers. Since Congress can't spend our money wisely, they will borrow some of it. And contrary to what you believe, the last time I checked, 66% of our debt is held...right here in the United States. Oh, and we deserve that, because we don't elect politicians who care about that, nor do we demand the same level of efficiency in our government that we demand from General Motors (h/t to Tom Clancy).
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
unsane
May 26, 2007 - 01:47 ET by shawn228If Brazil is indeed a bigger economy than China surely there is a link on the world wide web. The surgury's you said are never free unsane. They pay a steep price if they survive he surgury. If there is no health plan in place that individual will be in debt for tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. That person will still owe even if he declares bankrupsty. Would not happen in Canada. Slower to get to the surgery table there, but beggers can' t be choosers.
Are you serious when you say we can afford the war on tax power money alone? Am I understandingy you correctly? That money has to to building bridges, fixing roads, our social programs including social security"do you really think some stock money will solve he problem?", prison, public school. and two wars. We are not borrowing quicker than we are spending? I'm off to bed goodnight!
http://brillig.com/d...
Why do you keep demanding tha
May 26, 2007 - 04:55 ET by UnsaneWhy do you keep demanding that I pay for other people's health care? What's next? Demanding I pay for their groceries?
You are failing miserably at addressing my simple questions. If Canada's health care system is so great and so perfect, why do people have to wait for procedures to get done? Why do no major medical innovations come out of Canada (name the last time any doctor or group from Canada won a Nobel for medicine? Anyone???)? Why do so many Canadians head south of the border to OUR hospitals to get procedures done here?
What you fail to understand to understand is that sometimes, slower to get to the surgery table sometimes = death. Perhaps you need to get hit with my health care speech once again...
I am deathly serious when I say we can afford the war on tax money alone. The government - meaning Congresscritters of BOTH parties - refuses to spend our money efficiently and wisely. Tax revenues are at an all time high, yet the government is spending more that in brings in. So yes, it can ALL be paid for, quite easily.
Unlike you, shawn, I do not look at the government as a Big Nanny, as a massive charity, a huge United Way. If I had my way, most of the social programs you see now would be gutted.
Building bridges? Fixing roads? Perhaps you have heard of STATES? Though the federal government paid for the land the Katy Freeway (I-10) sits on, guess who is paying for the widening of said freeway? There IS a reason I see TXDoT vehicles and signage all over that project...
Social programs, again, if I had my way, would be gutted, as the government is not a charity, and it is simply NOT here to coddle, spoil, and pamper you. This great nation should NOT be emulating France, half of whose GDP belongs to the State, a nation where 75% of 15-24 year olds want to work for the government so that they can have a guaranteed job for life.
Indeed, if we phased in privatization of Social Security, and put individuals in charge of their retirements, we would all be better off. I for one would dearly love to divert even a small portion of my Social Security taxes into my IRA - besides, the government will reap more in tax revenues from that in the long run. As it stands now, I do not expect to get ANY Social Security, and I make that assumption at the start of every year, when I stuff my IRA to the maximum contribution allowable.
Prisons? Again, there are 50 government entities out there that take care of this. (The United States does NOT have a unitary form of government.) The federal government doesn't have much in the way of prisons, as there are much fewer federal offenders than there are state ones. Therefore, law enforcement and prisons take up relatively little of the federal government's budget.
Public school is something that the federal government only hurts by throwing money at. In fact, I would argue that public schools need LESS money (I have voted against every school bond issue when they come up for that reason). If money was THE public school cure all, then why isn't the DC school district graduating armies of Salks, Shakespeares, Mozarts, Baarnards, and Einsteins every single spring?
The two wars are necessary for national defense, and were ones we simply did not choose or ask for. And even if we did not have them, there is still a need for a military to train, equip, and otherwise prepare.
One, if you seriously cared about the debt, you wouldn't be whining for the federal government to nationalize 14-15% of the U.S. economy. (The Brits' NHS's budget is larger that every nation's budget except the top ten, according to The Economist. All of that to pamper 60 million people! And that is just ONE segment of the U.K. budget!) Two, you have got to take a step back and figure out what the federal government pays for, and what is best left to states to pay for.
Such dependency on the Internet...does anyone read books or magazines anymore? Am I that big a dinosaur? Well, I am just old enough to remember life without the Internet, indeed, without computers at all. I said you can look it up on economist.com (though I must caution you that you might have to pay for the privilege). If I can spare a moment, if it makes you feel better, I will look for a copy of that special report, and quote chapter and verse so that you can verify it on your own.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane
May 26, 2007 - 10:41 ET by shawn228I'm sure you medical plan is better the one in Canada and i'm sure alot peoples are too. In Canada nobody skips to the front of the line and everybody is treated equally. Many Canadians come to the States because they are the ones with money and want to the have the surgery quicker or there is a specialist here not in Canada. Who said anything about raising taxes? If we can fight wars without raising taxes why not have universal medical plan without raising taxes? Nobody seems to care about the national debt anyway.
We are not talking about you having you own way and your fantasy government Unsane. Ok lets say you are right, lets forget about the State tax. You think the Federal tax can support the 2 wars right now? You are not the President Unsane so it does no matter what you think we should throw money to. At the moment we do have to fund schools, social security, homeland security etc. If we did not have to borrow money the National debt would not growing by 10s of millions per day.
China is competing with us for oil sources around the world. They are a nucleur power, Their military might be rivaled only by the USA and Russia. We are also running a 280 billion trade deficit with them. I just need more than your word to go on that their economy is smaller than Brazils
AGAIN, why is it that, becaus
May 26, 2007 - 15:49 ET by UnsaneAGAIN, why is it that, because you or others are too lazy or too unskilled at handling your finances, you demand that I pay for other people's health care? Why are you whining for the government to come steal from ME in order to pay for things you can really manage to do all on your own???
Being a good Socialist, of course you are enraged that Canadians might have the money to head south of the border for our hospitals and doctors. Thank you for making my point. If medical treatment in Canada is SO GREAT, why do they come south? In that mix are many Canadians who take out loans to pay for medical treatments, because once they pay for them, they WILL be treated, period.
Incidentally, in Britain and Canada, there are quite a few stories out there of doctors that have to put patients on waiting lists, but offer to go ahead with the treatment on their own, if paid for under the table. Doctors and other medical professionals in both countries, being government employees, don't make a whole lot of money, and being good doctors that are the height of true professionals - they occasionally go on strike and work slowdowns - across entire provinces!
OR shot down the suggestion of state provided helth care by a 4-1 margin in 2004, and IL recently shot that idea down in its legislature. You may want to take a look at that sometime.
Are you saying that in one paragraph, because I am not the President, I shouldn't have an opinion? If that is the case, what the hell are you doing here then?
The primary funding source of the schools are still the STATES.
I so LOVE how you ache with concern about the national debt, yet you CANNOT WAIT for the government to do MORE and MORE and MORE (like completely nationalize 14-15% of the economy) and run itself deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. Look at the rotting EU. Check out France's debt sometime. They have a government you would simply LOVE because they spoil and pamper everybody - yet their debt is enormous, only getting bigger, and they have fewer and fewer taxpayers to pay for it, because their unemployment rate hasn't been lower than 9% in a quarter century. And once the government there tries to do any kind of reform to the system, their wards of the state - the adult population - hit the streets and RIOT. That's not the kind of system I want to see here. I prefer to see the United States remain the most powerful and advanced economy in the world (driven in part by advances in medical science that is only possible in a free market like what exists here, thanks to the Europeans and Canadians purging any sort of incentive from their health systems), not become a mediocre country that is committed to coddling the lowest common denominator, even if it means the nation as a whole is Going Nowhere.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane
May 26, 2007 - 16:20 ET by shawn228Are you saying that in one paragraph, because I am not the
President, I shouldn't have an opinion? If that is the case, what the
hell are you doing here then?
Your misinterperting what I said Unsane. You said you would cut many of the socialist and school programs. What I mean that is that is not the way it is now, if it was changed in the future so be it. Also I did not say I was outraged that some Canadians are coming across he border to have operations.
I notice that one of your favorite terms is Countries going nowhere, Canada , France, and Denmark seem to be on your list. What is your definition of "going nowhere"
Ah...going nowhere...Investin
May 27, 2007 - 05:39 ET by UnsaneAh...going nowhere...
Investing vast amounts of energy into making sure your countries biggest failures and deadweights don't suffer is a sure sign of going nowhere.
Simple. Only Socialists like Denmark, Canada, and France because they pour so much time and effort into coddling their failures. In so doing, they make zero progression. For example, peruse the list of Nobel Prize winners for medicine (you can find a list in any copy of the World Almanac...which reminds me...did you hit up economist.com for that Brazil - China comparison, or do you wish me to cite you the specific edition from which I got the information?). Note how heavily dominated it was by European countries in the early years. IIRC, it trended sharply to the United States beginning in the 1960s. Reason being, the European countries began pouring heart and soul into uplifting failures that were determined to fail at all costs - and doing that has a cost - a cost of progression.
The United States wouldn't have come up with the Internet and other inventions and innovations that continue to impact the world today if we worried and fussed all the time about our failures and lazy citizenry.
I would say a country that is Going Nowhere is one that caters so much to the least common denominator that it saps the energies of the rest of society. There's more to it than that, but it should give you an idea. Or, think of it this way...do people talk about France or Canada as if they are the wave of the future? Or do they talk about China, India, Japan, or...the United States? Then ask yourself, why is that? Which of those countries is more dynamic, and which are just content to chug along in mediocrity?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
defense
May 27, 2007 - 06:15 ET by AgnosticImagine where the great social experiment of Canada would be if they actually had to pay for their own defense. Not to demean Canada or their military because I actually have respect for both but the relative size and cost to their tax base if they had to man and arm a military sufficient in protecting their borders would be devastating to their social programs.
Indeed
May 27, 2007 - 15:36 ET by UnsaneIndeed, what many of these Leftists often forget is that these lavish social models are ONLY affordable thanks to the might of the United States military, and the willingness of our government to use that might in their defense as well as ours.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
unsane -- some interesting
May 27, 2007 - 06:00 ET by Jack Bauerunsane -- some interesting facts about the UK of which you may not be aware. Private Healthcare and private healthcare insurance of perfectly legal and readily available.
However you cannot "opt" out of the National Health Service in the sense that you can choose to pay only for private. As the NHS is funded out of general taxation, you simply pay twice.
However -- even with private, many people here are becoming health tourists in places like Poland and India where they can receive excellent healthcare at a far lower cost than the UK private care.
Incidentally, the you are correct in one sense. The same doctor who will put you on a waiting list of a year for, say, knee replacement, will do the same procedure privately almost immediatley.
However go to Poland and it's not only cheaper, the aftercare is better. I know, because I know someone who has done just that.
That would be the former Communist dictatorship Poland, by the way.
Comparison
May 27, 2007 - 15:38 ET by UnsaneIndeed, that system is quite reminiscent of one here in the United States that elects to put their children in a private school, but still must pay the property taxes that fund the rotting public school, no?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Exactly unsane -- and the c
May 28, 2007 - 05:24 ET by Jack BauerExactly unsane -- and the UK conservative party under Maggie Thatcher introduced tax breaks on private healthcare insurance, but when the socialists (under Blair) came to power they stopped that.
How do you know nobody in Can
May 27, 2007 - 00:41 ET by NL207How do you know nobody in Canada skipped to the front of the line or found other creative ways to avoid the system?
Maybe you need some access to real fact instead of the hogwash offered up by the MSM. Try this. It is the Fraser Institute in BC, Canada. They are very upfront about who they are and where they are coming from. They have a significant interest in the Canadian healthcare system.
NL
May 27, 2007 - 00:56 ET by shawn228Biggest misconception about Canada is that health care is free, it is not. You need to pay a month premium just like here. Yes people can beat the sytem, not so different than us right? You wait a little longer and it can mean the difference between life and death, but all my friends that live down there have their open heart surgury, acl's before it was a problem.
God help us!Wealthy Canadians
May 27, 2007 - 01:03 ET by NL207God help us!
Wealthy Canadians simply cross the border into the US and get services.
Politically influential Canadians have been known to check themselves into the few Canadian Military hospitals, which are exempt from the system.
Dishonest Canadians simply lie about their circumstances. Their tax collectors, civil servants and bureaucrats aren't any smarter than ours are. Fraud goes on there too.
Not everyone in Canada pays the same premium. They have a welfare/disability population too.
Last, you were a naughty boy. You didn't even look at the material on the Fraser Institute site discussing the Canadian healthcare system's shortcomings, now did you? You trust allegory and anecdotal evidence from a statistically insignificant group of people over published studies of large groups. That's what your actions indicate.
Dear dippy shawn228 - about china recalling dollars
May 26, 2007 - 05:53 ET by SportPoliticsDear dippy shawn228 - about china recalling dollars- they cannot recall dollars. They have a fixed time for maturation, all they can do is try to sell their bonds to someone else, and if noone else buys them they are stuck with them like Japan, you DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.
With excess US capital FROM THE USA - THAT'S US MORON - BUYING THEIR GOODS - THEY CAN BUY MORE USA BONDS....
WE ALREADY PAID FOR THE GOODS WE BOUGHT DUMMY.
THEY BOUGHT OUR GOVEY BONDS BACK - WHICH GAIN INTEREST ON THEIR AMOUNT OF "EQUITY" IN DOLLARS THEY HAVE.
The worst they could do is " NOT BUY MORE US GOV INTEREST BEARING DEVICES !!!"
That's it you bucklebrain.
If you idiots knew ANYTHING - and I mean you idiot AGWmoron flippy libby rosies - you would say:
Q. " What if China stops ' buying treasury items ' and all our NEW government borrowing isn't secured ?
A. the idiot government has to stop spending over the budget !!!!
_________________________________________
OH, IDIOT LIBBIE DUHH DOI FIBBIE DIPPIE YIPPPPEEEEEEE....
ps- I'll try to talk real stupid and childish to you in the future as well... and be exactly like you.
Hey shawn228 - what if democrats get elected and our last bastion of manufacturing - weapons - goes under and crashes our economy because the dems won't replace what we have used in the WOT ? What if the democrats destroy our last manufacturing base ?
Shawn, you need to learn how
May 26, 2007 - 12:18 ET by MikeBShawn, you need to learn how money, markets, and various debt instruments work. The biggest fallacy in your post was the question "what if one of the countries we owe money to decides to call in their [sic] loan?" Shawn, T-Bills, T-Notes, and T-Bonds are not callable instruments. If a country does not wish to hold American debt instruments any longer, their only recourse is to sell them on the international open market. If China, for example, decided to dump all their U.S. Government debt instruments, they would take a bath on the deal, as the price on the debt instruments would plummet.
The ecomomy of the U.S. may or may not be weaker than in the past. Even if it is, it is still stronger than any other country's economy. Although, with GDP and productivity up, and with an unemployment rate below what is considered the natural unemployment rate, I don't see why you would be all doom and gloom about it. I would strongly suggest you take college courses in both micro- and, especially, macroeconomics, as well as a finance course on money and banking. That way, you won't embarass yourself with ignorance when posting on economic issues.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
MikeB
May 26, 2007 - 12:37 ET by shawn228Simply put, the US is spending more than it is earning and has been
able to do so largely because the world has been financing it by foreigners buying US
bonds and, importantly, buying dollars in order to purchase oil, gold and other
commodities on the world market.
Obliging foreigners have been funding our debt for years by buying U.S. Treasury bonds, with the bulk of
them purchased by central banks and held as the largest part of their
nations' reserves. The critical question is whether in the face of a
declining dollar they'll continue to bankroll our spending spree, or
try to cut their losses by shifting substantially to another hard
currency like the euro. What if people decided to not use the US dollar anymore?
You are right MikeB, I am not a economist. I am using common knowledge in saying debts must repaid sometime shouldn't they? Your saying our declining US dollar has nothing to do with our national debt?
Am I embarrassing myself even more asking you that question?
shawn,Both Unsane and myself
May 26, 2007 - 12:42 ET by Blondeshawn,
Both Unsane and myself have pointed out excellent books on basic economics to you.
You should take our advice, and read these books. You'd be able to answer your own questions, and be better equipped to argue economics on the boards here.
Yes, Shawn, you are embarrass
May 26, 2007 - 13:16 ET by MikeBYes, Shawn, you are embarrassing yourself further.
The Federal Reserve has to walk a fine line between allowing the dollar to become too weak and allowing it to become too strong. If the dollar becomes too strong, it means that foreign countries will not be able to afford to buy American goods, which means that the trade deficit goes way up. A weaker dollar means American goods are more affordable in world markets, thus ameliorating the trade deficit.
Once again, take some economics courses, or read some economic texts. Although I haven't (yet) read it myself, Dr. Sowell's book that Unsane recommended to you is probably very good. I would also recommend Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, who is considered the father of modern economics. You might also consider economics texts by Milton Friedman. Most modern economics texts are preponderantly of the Keynesian school of thought. Keynesian economics is actually a special case of Adam Smith's classic economics. Keynesian economics works when there is a large amount of unused capacity in the economic system. If his ideas are implemented during a time of full employment and full capacity, they result in inflationary pressures. Freidman is a monetarist, which philosophy seems to make more economic sense to me. No, I won't define it for you. You must look it up for yourself if you are interested.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Wow shawn...If we lose the re
May 25, 2007 - 22:31 ET by bigtimerWow shawn...
If we lose the respect of the world...
If?
We cannot go it alone...
Really?
Other countries will follow our lead by our examples if we are good little boys and girls and do as they want...surely you jest?!
What country is always first with aid to any country with a disaster?
What country has given freedom to other countries around the world throughout time and stopped or tried to stop communism/socialism/dictatorship..whatever you want to call it?
I could give a rats rear what image comes across on the television screen when it comes regarding this great country...they can stop begging, depending, screaming for our aid as far as I am concerned.
Btw...The UN is something we should of been out of years ago.
But hey...that's just me.
I find it quite amusing you a
May 25, 2007 - 22:35 ET by UnsaneI find it quite amusing you are so deeply concerned about how other nations see us as a mass of evil torturers, YET the detainees at Gitmo are surely being treated better than our hostages in Iran were, or better than our pilots at the Hanoi Hilton, or in other places around the world. Before whining about how we torture people, I suggest you read The Black Book of Communism or some accounts of the Bataan Death March. I could make an argument that our detainees are getting better fed and treated than any of our POWs ever were.
Yet, oh my god, if more than ONE HAIR is lost on a detainee at Gitmo, IT MUST BE TORTURE!!!!
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I really appreciate my Senato
May 25, 2007 - 21:53 ET by MikeBI really appreciate my Senators Coburn and Inhoff. Inhoff presented the facts in the Global Warming hearings, and now Coburn objecting to Madam Malaria being honored. She is responsible for more deaths than Adolph Hitler, and nearly as many as Josef Stalin. But, she is an environmental "hero".
Both of them voted against considering the Illegal Immigrant Amnesty bill. If Fred(!) doesn't run, perhaps these two should as a team.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Rueter's can stick it where t
May 25, 2007 - 22:09 ET by bigtimerRueter's can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Coburn is right ....period.
The media tried to make him a nutcase in his race to be Senator....he is a doctor if memory serves me right, he still does deliveries when not in the Senate.
He is also a real maverick...unlike McCain...I have watched him since he came to the Senate, he has stood alone trying to stop pork barrel spending, outrageous amendments that are based on false premises (in other words ...lies) he is (or was) on the Judiciary committee and challenges Spector when need be which I am grateful for and involved in one aspect of it myself where I live that he stopped tons of tax-payer money getting spent on false clams and lies with a few exceptions) with his medical knowledge...in other words this man is a determined, never give up the good fight, awesome man....I have watched him finally gain more and more support for his votes, after being trounced and put-down, extricated by fellow members...he is treated with seriousness now and wins some of his amendments now and then....he is one determined man, I have nothing but total respect and admiration for him.
Ben Cardin is a pure socialist...I have watched him on the House floor for over fifteen years now...I cringed when I heard he was going to run...I prayed Steele would win, but alas you had the likes of greasy Schumer that got away with his illegal campaign tricks against Steele....
Rachael Carson is responsible for millions of deaths...still is to this day...along with the greenies that have nothing but a leftist plan for this world not just our country in their view for the future....
DDT should be sprayed NOW...to this day....
Coburn is RIGHT....stick to your guns my fine man...you are one hell of a great Senator.
Thank you Senator Coburn.
WTH...thank you for this information, and I am going to contact the Senator's office and thank him and have a little chat with the aides you get when calling...I did not know anything about this...but thank goodness for men like Coburn...Inhofe ect...that is why this country will always stay strong.
You are quite welcome.
May 25, 2007 - 22:56 ET by Warner Todd HustonYou are quite welcome.
The reason they don't want yo
May 25, 2007 - 22:49 ET by danboThe reason they don't want you to know. This was the environmentalist other fiasco. Since Rucklehouse signed the ban of DDT after never attending any hearings an estimated 94 million people have died due to malaria.
If people knew the results of the environmentalist other folly, they wouldn't be very friendly to their new one. "Climate Change".
The Malaria Clock
The Fight
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Well danbo it's the democrats way of genocide
May 26, 2007 - 06:00 ET by SportPoliticsWell danbo it's the democrats way of genocide, they've been sickening and murdering hundreds of millions of blacks on the continent of Africa and many more - hispanics in South America - etc.
The democrats made sure we were all safe here in the USA, then they made the killing genoicde their policy for third world Africa- they are the most successful KKK lynchers the world has ever known.
Now their latest left wing enviro freaks - like they have for some time - want world population reduction - from 6 billion down to 1 billion.... they had their population bomb fear tactics going for decades - to justify their silent spring DDT ban genocide.
Who do you think they will mass murder next ?
My bet is more of the same - more of their KKK death by denial - on whole continents -
Even now they are demanding entire coastline communities uproot themselves and move off the shores of the world - driving down their property value and preparing to sieze their land and claim it is in danger of going underwater - their fascist march on people all over the world is ongoing now.
It sounds like no one really
May 25, 2007 - 23:11 ET by balboaIt sounds like no one really knows what might happen with extensive exposure to DDT, do they? Does sound like Carson jumped the gun. But if it's really harmful to birds, could that lead to trouble for us later, somehow?
hey--I don't know--
May 25, 2007 - 23:19 ET by misterbillhey--I don't know--I am very confused--I remember that the shells of the eggs of a number of birds were too thin and would break before maturity. To my knowledge that is still true. On the other hand, when they sprayed in Long Island and other urban areas--the kids used to stand in the streets and let the spray hit them, I never read or heard of any negative effects. In fairness to Carson, what she said about the birds was true. They have made a magnificent comeback. I see a young eagle very often flying over a lake in Alabama that I visit. I am not a naturalist but I hate to think that I have to choose one or the other. I suspect Rachel Carson never anticipated the malaria problem.
I have heard that the "t
May 26, 2007 - 08:20 ET by drillanwrI have heard that the "tests" done (the poor results) on the bird egg shells were possibly the result of a certain percent of calcium being removed from the birds' diets. I have only heard this referred to vocally (by a couple different sources), but am sure there are counter "Silent Spring" books, that have researched this possibly tainted test study, where the source of this revelation might be found.
DDT Tests
May 27, 2007 - 04:55 ET by AgnosticI'll have to look for sources but the problem with the use of DDT came from it's overuse. DDT was being used in large quantities and if you remember the film clips they showed when this was a hot issue there groups of people walking through clouds of the pesticide so think that it distorted the view. Simply put, better distribution and spraying methods would have reduced the necessary amount of DDT released and all the birdies would have been okay. But you know how silly people are, when something comes along and starts saving millions of lives they tend to want to "save the children". With proper spraying methods DDT has been proven safe and yet the ban is still effectively in place. Do environmentalist care about the children? (sarcasm due to hearing environmentalist crap for too long - sorry if it offends)
We are all still alive boa...
May 25, 2007 - 23:20 ET by bigtimerWe are all still alive boa....I lived by orchards that were sprayed with that in Calif...alive and doing fine thank you.
Millions of others would be now...if it wasn't for the Algoreacle junk science of of the leftists who made her a hero when I was going to high school....
Ah yes...Silent Spring for millions...forever boa....forever.
Yes we're alive. I'm just war
May 25, 2007 - 23:28 ET by balboaYes we're alive. I'm just wary of chemicals, too many chemicals. Pesticides, preservatives, they all worry me. I trust those "in charge" will clear everything.
Please Balboa. DDT is a probl
May 26, 2007 - 06:59 ET by danboPlease Balboa. DDT is a problem. How many people have died because of problems caused by DDT?
Over 94 million have died from malaria.
Let us worry about what might be a problem. Too bad for those people in Africa, Asia and South America.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
They are mass murderers BT
May 26, 2007 - 06:09 ET by SportPoliticsThey are mass murderers BT, and dip**it balboa excuses them.
They will continue their endless slaughter of lies.
The most intelligent and well informed leftist I ever met, who was even telling the truth about things other leftists wouldn't - went TOTALLY INSANE when DDT was brought up - cited Silent Spring - and DEFENDED the hundreds of millions of malaria cases on the continent of Africa--
They don't EVER have to live there, and they slaughter blacks with impunity - because they want Africa to remain a " eons old environment " for their Safari's and fantasies about going to see the Mugboogoo Tribe "living the pure life".
Yeah, they are MASS MURDERERS. Idiots like Balboa support them and it entirely - stupidly saying " well ... it destroyed the USA wildlife and fauna "...
They are MURDERERS - plain and simple, they have been protected already so EVERYONE ELSE LIKE 300 MILLION BLACK AFRICANS CAN FU***** DIE FROM MALARYIA !!!
With the demojackassed libidiots, you don't need enemies.
( If they knew how our Military sprayed the troops and the supplies- they would have a gigantic hissy fit )
Amazing. You're actually LESS
May 26, 2007 - 13:39 ET by balboaAmazing. You're actually LESS lucid. Astounding, really.
Yeah, bably
May 26, 2007 - 13:59 ET by SportPoliticsGo worry about additives to your fruitcake.
Hey Bal, I do not know if a l
May 26, 2007 - 16:37 ET by Roger the ShrubberHey Bal, I do not know if a link to this story is in the main story, but check it out, and it might explain what a fraud the DDT ban really is.
It is sad. Very sad.
Ok bigtimer
May 25, 2007 - 23:32 ET by shawn228First, Just glad you are being civil,
Second, the stock markets are closed. I don't want to find my answer elsewhere I would like to answer to be so kind. Explain economics to me. Where is the money coming from to fund 2 wars and rebuiding New Orleans. The stock market? Also President Bush is not going to talk about the 9 trillion dollar deficit very often, his approvals numbers are low enough aren't they? :)
3rd, I don't hold grudges like you do bigtimer, could you remind me what post I did about what? I have no idea what you talking about. Kindly explain what are asking instead of making me guess:)
shawn...About fifteen above u
May 25, 2007 - 23:38 ET by bigtimershawn...
About fifteen above us...
I answered your post around same time Unsane did, when I was writing my response to you no one else had yet...You still have not answered my questions even though the post has scooted down from the original position....
You haven't replied to either Unsane or me.
Your post was infuriating so I would like answers too.
big timer
May 25, 2007 - 23:40 ET by shawn228Please bigtimer, don't talk in riddles, please ask me what the question is. I'm a dumb liberal, I need you ask what questions you want answered. It does not have to be in morse code, just ask:)
shawn...No one is talking in
May 25, 2007 - 23:48 ET by bigtimershawn...
No one is talking in riddles...read my response to you...answer where you see the question marks for starts....and by the way, respond to Unsane while you are at it....
I won't hold my breath waiting.
big timer
May 26, 2007 - 00:02 ET by shawn228I have not looked back on Unsanes post BT but here is the answer to your post
The world owes a lot to the United States no doubt. We have helped countless countries and have asked very little in return. There I answered your question. Now answer mine. Explain economics 101 to me
Pathetic shawn...I will let s
May 26, 2007 - 00:06 ET by bigtimerPathetic shawn...
I will let someone else play with you.
You make a post like you did and you come back with your innocent sounding leftist spin....with no accountability for basically putting this county down....no answers to all the questions I asked in return.
Typical....
Period.
Good night bigtimer
May 26, 2007 - 00:14 ET by shawn228Innocent leftist spin? I admitted the USA should be more appreciated than they are, what did you want me to do, compliment you on your knowledge? I love American and I did not put it down All I asked is where is the money coming from for funding the war and you want to take your ball and go home. If seems you are just on the verge of one of your temper tantrums, so I agree that perhaps someone else can play with me? Have a warm glass of milk and go to sleep BT Sweet dreams.
Oh and before you call me the inevidible T word. You are the one that called me pathetic.
You have just been a itchin f
May 26, 2007 - 00:24 ET by bigtimerYou have just been a itchin for me to fight with you shawn.
(I have not forgot, nor did I think you were ever going to be anything than you are since you came here shawn, you know and I know some of your posts to me were deleted so some people here do not know, or most likely care, of what you posted to me...but I will not forget)
All I expected you to do is answer the first response to the first post you made.
Nothing really hard to do...or follow.
Sit and spin is all leftists know how to do well.
Have a nice week-end....say a prayer for our fallen soldiers.
bigtimer
May 26, 2007 - 00:39 ET by shawn228Nobody wants to fight with you bigtimer. I remember our first exchange as well and even though my comments were deleted and your weren't. My answers might have been trollish, but not half as your mean spirited comments. Like I said many times to you in the past, I did not know you were a woman until Mighty Mouth said so. You struck me as a middle age malel hog farmer with a life time membership to the NRA. I told you I regretted that assumption, please bigtimer, let it go. All this anger cannot be good for you.
You have a good weekend as well. I will say a prayer for the troops
shawn....Or you.
May 26, 2007 - 00:42 ET by bigtimershawn....
Or you.
bigtimer
May 26, 2007 - 00:48 ET by shawn228Your talking in riddles again. Or me what? I'm going to take stab at it and assume the anger thing. I'm not angry at you. I have been nothing but respectful of you. Your last reponse to me before this thread was and i'm paraphrasing . You are a troll and always will be, dont use you phony tripe on me.
You just seem like a very angry person bt.
Moi...call you a troll...What
May 26, 2007 - 00:55 ET by bigtimerMoi...call you a troll...
What ever came over me....
ROFLMAO!
See bigtimer
May 26, 2007 - 01:00 ET by shawn228A lighthearted sarcastic comment, wasn't so hard was it?
Easy as pie shawn...especiall
May 26, 2007 - 01:08 ET by bigtimerEasy as pie shawn...especially when it comes to a slice like you.
bigtimer
May 26, 2007 - 01:13 ET by shawn228Slice?
..sarcasm, shawn, sarcasm....
May 26, 2007 - 01:16 ET by bigtimer