While Rosie O’Donnell uses ABC’s own airwaves to spout nonsense about 9/11 conspiracies and Rudy Giuliani supposedly shipping the World Trade Center off to China, ABC News is troubled that the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky, tells visitors the Biblical story of God’s creation.
“Critics say it is harmful to schoolchildren,” co-host Robin Roberts teased at the top of Friday's Good Morning America. “Mainstream scientists worry that because this museum is so sophisticated it will be more effective at giving children a distorted view of science,” ABC reporter Dan Harris argued.
Back in 1999, a New York City art museum showcased an exhibit featuring a portrait of the Virgin Mary surrounded by elephant dung and cutouts from pornographic magazines. But then the media only saw a threat to free speech if the artist or museum were deprived of public funds. The New York Times then argued: “One man’s blasphemy is another man’s faith."
Now, the media are fretting about the menace of a museum illustrating the Bible story of creation.
Undoubtedly, ABC pounced on the museum story today because it was featured in the Arts section of the New York Times yesterday. Reviewer Edward Rothstein wrote of the “sheer weirdness” of the museum combining “displays of extraordinary nautilus shell fossils and biblical tableaus, celebrations of natural wonders and allusions to human sin. Evolution gets its continual comeuppance, while biblical revelations are treated as gospel.”
The Bible treated as gospel? Scandalous!
ABC did, however, report that most Americans (60% according to their own poll) say they believe that God created the world in six days. And that poll was conducted before this dangerous museum officially opens on May 28.
Here’s the transcript:
Robin Roberts, 7:01am EDT: “And there’s a new high-tech museum opening that’s, well, causing quite a stir. Critics say it is harmful to schoolchildren. Harmful? So why? Here’s a hint: It depicts a world where dinosaurs had company in the form of two of the most famous Biblical characters, so that always causes a bit of controversy.”Robin Roberts, 7:16am EDT: “Now, to a question of faith. According to ABC News, an ABC News poll, 60% of Americans believe God created the world in six days. And this weekend, a new museum is opening its doors. High tech, high controversy — [it’s a] $27 million facility that depicts a story that’s a, well, a far cry from what many of us learned in science class. ABC’s Dan Harris joins us with a preview of the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky. Good morning, Dan.”
Dan Harris standing in front of an exhibit showing dinosaurs: “Robin, good morning. At most museums, they’re going to teach you that dinosaurs roamed the Earth millions of years ago and died out long before humans arrived on the scene. But here at the Creation Museum, they say that God created dinosaurs and humans at the same time, roughly 6,000 years ago. It’s a $27 million, high tech, sensory experience, with animatronic dinosaurs, and a movie theater with seats that shake — all designed by the same man behind some of the attractions at Universal Studios in Florida.”
Museum visitors: “Incredible. It’s very cool, yeah.”
Harris: “It’s all aimed at convincing visitors that evolution is wrong, and that the Biblical story of life on earth, from Adam and Eve to Noah’s Ark, is scientifically verifiable.”
Harris walking through museum exhibit with executive: “You’ve got Adam living with a bunch of animals, including, right here, a dinosaur.”
Ken Ham, President of Answers in Genesis: “Including dinosaurs, yes, because all land animals were made on Day Six.”
Harris to Ham: “But again, scientists, a lot of scientist-”
Ham: “Secular scientists.”
Harris: “Secular scientists would say, that’s just not true.”
Ham: “Yeah, they can say that, but what’s their scientific proof?”
Young boy at museum: “I believe that God created them on the sixth day, on the same day.”
Harris: “Mainstream scientists worry that because this museum is so sophisticated it will be more effective at giving children a distorted view of science.”
Eugenie Scott, PhD, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education: “They’ll show up in classrooms and say, ‘Gee, Mrs. Brown, I went to this very spiffy museum last summer and they say that everything you’re teaching me is a lie.’”
Ham: “And I say, great, amen. That’s what this place is all about. It’s meant to challenge people.”
Exhibit movie showing a man dressed as angel talking to audience: “This folks, one of the great tragedies of your time.
Harris: “The stakes are high. The museum argues that evolution jeopardizes people’s belief in the Bible, and leads to social ills like pornography and abortion.”
Jason Lisle, PhD, Answers in Genesis: “Without an evolutionary worldview, why should you have things like absolute morality? Why would it be wrong to kill someone? I’m not saying that evolutionist aren’t moral, I’m saying they have no logical reason to be moral.”
Harris: “The people here at the museum say they have two primary audiences. Christians who need scientific evidence to bolster and defend their faith, and non-Christians who need to be saved. Diane.”
Diane Sawyer: “Alright, thanks to you, Dan.”
—Rich Noyes is Research Director at the Media Research Center.





















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Comments Policy
"Mainstream scientists w
May 25, 2007 - 14:38 ET by mattm"Mainstream scientists worry that...it will be more effective at giving children a distorted view of science."
They should know, since they're so good at it.
One of the oldest books of the bible give this description of a creature that could easily be evidence of humans living at the same time as "dinosaurs." Job 40:15-24 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Good news for our side. Gre
May 25, 2007 - 14:42 ET by vrwc13Good news for our side. Great publicity, Ken Ham couldn't pay enough for this.
I am sure the ACLU will stick up for the freedom of speech here.
face piles of trials with smiles
Where's the censorship issu
May 26, 2007 - 07:34 ET by sarcasmoWhere's the censorship issue? What, exactly, would you propose that the ACLU do about an ABC News story, anyway??
JMR
Darwinism crushed
May 25, 2007 - 18:43 ET by NortoBeliever
"Of Moths and Men," by Judith Hooper is a must read for anyone wanting to be able to diss evolution. The moths that were supposed to have changed were not evolving they were adapting to the environment. The coal dust from the smoke stacks was cleaned and they went back to a lighter color.
Those experiments were set up to get the outcome desired.
check out the biological tree
May 25, 2007 - 18:54 ET bycheck out the biological tree here as they attempt to make it fit the data. (note there is still NO evidence for the horizontal portions)
This is where Richard Dawkins and Stephen J Gould parted company
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Makes sense to me. To ABC,
May 25, 2007 - 14:40 ET by RightOfMostMakes sense to me. To ABC, Christianity = Harmful; Leaking U.S. Covert operations to protect/warn Islamofascists = helpful. Thanks much guys.
Treason used to be a punishable crime...
There are many on the left th
May 25, 2007 - 14:40 ET by Phan of TruthThere are many on the left that will believe in anything but God.
It's been said, and sadly I
May 25, 2007 - 14:43 ET by The Wicked ConservativeIt's been said, and sadly I don't remember by who..."If you don't believe in God, you'll believe in anything."
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
It's almost like a guilt comp
May 25, 2007 - 14:49 ET by Phan of TruthIt's almost like a guilt complex, filling the void of a rebellion that one knows might be wrong and does anyway. Believe in God--Blame God for your failings--Claim to not believe in God--Believe in anything and everything that isn't religious dogma. I've seen it so many times from so many people I know.
Yes ...
May 25, 2007 - 14:49 ET by Dave PierreGreat post, Rich. The Los Angeles Times, in an editorial yesterday (Thu. 5/24/07), ripped the new museum. In the process, they made a number of outlandish, ignorant statements. I hope to post on it this wekkend.
Frankenlies.com: Al Franken debunked ...
TheMediaReport.com ...
AGENDA! AGENDA! AGENDA! My
May 25, 2007 - 14:50 ET by The Wicked ConservativeAGENDA! AGENDA! AGENDA! My word I can hear their drums beating. They chant "We must suppress dissent!" Over and over and over...creepy. It's good for man to fear God but not for their reasons.
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
One other thing: Why is it
May 25, 2007 - 14:54 ET by mattmOne other thing: Why is it considered folly to believe that a spiritual force beyond the constraints of the physical universe is necessary for the existence of that universe, yet it's considered scientific and intelligent to believe that this exquisitely designed and highly ordered universe just happened of its own accord?
I'll believe in evolution o
May 25, 2007 - 15:01 ET by wiwfI'll believe in evolution once after I drop puppies from trees for 50 years they start to grow wings so that they don't hurt themselves over and over from the fall.
This entire world is no accident or chance occurence.
"I will be as the most h
May 25, 2007 - 15:10 ET by Phan of Truth"I will be as the most high."--Lucifer in his heart, Isaiah 14:14
Make it 50 million or so, a
May 25, 2007 - 15:17 ET by heldmywMake it 50 million or so, and you might get flying pups! (Or at least bouncy ones!)
Here's a timeline for you....
On top of the tippy-top of the Empire State building, stack; One 12-inch ruler (on end), on that, place a dime, on that dime, place a postage stamp (flat).
Start from ground level.
The Empire State building is the duration of the Earth's existence before animals.
The Ruler is the beginning of animals,
the dime is the beginning of the existence of hominids, and
the postage stamp thickness is the length of time that man has been recognizable as... man.
While these are demonstrable durations with good, scientific support, no one I know of is actually going around spouting that they know exactly how all this came to be...
I simply find it impossible to believe it's a coincidence, happenstance, or random act of galactic whoopie. It all works, first of all. And we're here to observe and comment on it.
That's a pretty telling clue right there!
I think one can believe tha
May 25, 2007 - 15:18 ET by FreeInquirerI think one can believe that a creator exists without denying the existing evidence that the earth is much older than the scriptures say. putting dinosaurs and human beings in the same diorama flies in the face of the physical evidence in the fossil record that paleontologists study and collect over entire carreers. It seems to me that the people ignoring the evidence are those from the museum, not the secular scientific community. "science" never claims to prove anything. it claims that certain ideas seem to be correct, because they can be repeatedly tested and the same results consistently occur. for that reason the surest any scientist can be is to say that all the existing evidence supports whatever theory, but perhaps future discoveries will disprove the same theory. at this point, the evidence does not show human beings living alongside dinosaurs
I just gave you some. A wri
May 25, 2007 - 15:38 ET by mattmI just gave you some. A written account, no less...
Besides, since it wouldn't be too healthy for humans to live alongside dinosaurs, it shouldn't be surprising that there's not much fossil evidence of their concomitant existence..., but then it wouldn't take much evidence to debunk the claim that humans and dinosaurs didn't coexist.
mattm..went to your link but
May 25, 2007 - 15:43 ET by vrwc13mattm..went to your link but my company filter blocked it:
Reason:
The Websense category "Racism and Hate" is filtered.
What was the website? www.biblebelievers.o...
face piles of trials with smiles
Try this: http://www.grisda.o
May 25, 2007 - 16:38 ET by mattmTry this: http://www.creationists.org/mananddinos.html
or this: http://www.ldolphin.org/cooper/ch10.html
or: http://www.nwcreation.net/fossilsliving.html
Another thing. My point was
May 25, 2007 - 15:48 ET by mattmAnother thing. My point was merely that the media portrayal of creationist as wide-eyed fanatics, whereas evolutionists are thoughtful scientists is condescension of the first degree... and that particular condescension has no factual justification.
mattm--it is Friday--so bear with me--
May 25, 2007 - 15:22 ET by misterbillmattm--it is Friday--so bear with me--I get extremely silly--
If there were a God, would he allow global warming???
No!! There, that is proof of evolution. (I can be as silly as they can be.)
If there is a God, how come I don't win the lottery when I pray for it every time??
If there is a God, why are there wars??
OK when we are done with these questions and look back-- they are silly--the Deists at least believe there is a Supreme Justice. I, as a Christian, believe that God does intervene, many times, He just doesn't advertise on the MSM.
"If there is a God, how
May 25, 2007 - 21:27 ET by MikeB"If there is a God, how come I don't win the lottery when I pray for it every time?"
Misterbill, you remind me somewhat of Angus, a Scotsman who had some financial reverses. So, he prayed to God to allow him to win the lottery. The drawing came, and Angus did not win. So, the next week, he prayed to God to allow him to win the lottery. Again, he did not win. This happened a few more times, and Angus was about to lose everything, so he prayed to God asking Him why He didn't help Angus to win. Angus reminded God of all the money he had contributed to the church, and all the good deeds he'd done in his life. He asked God if it was too much to ask for help winning the lottery. When he finished his prayer, there was a roll of thunder, and God's voice came down from heaven telling him, "Angus, work with me here...buy a lottery ticket!"
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
ABC can believe what they wan
May 25, 2007 - 15:10 ET by Subsailor599ABC can believe what they want too. Sadly they think that if they work at discrediting a museum that does not fit their belief system (or lack of) that they can get more of the public to believe as they do.
My position is if you do not believe that God created everything then don't tour the museum. By the way there is a Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, TX and I do plan to tour soon. Here is their website. http://www.creationevidence.org/
My theory on this is: More a
May 25, 2007 - 15:14 ET by NoMoreClintonsMy theory on this is:
More assaults on Christianity = more Republicans votes in '08.
Keep it up "secular progressives", I'm loving it!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! The sk
May 25, 2007 - 15:17 ET by Michael ChapmanAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! The sky is falling!!!! I can't believe it. First there was that "Jesus Camp" where they actually teach young children about Jesus and self-sacrifice and forgiveness. And now there is this "Creation" museum!!! What is the world coming to? Darwin, save us! ... oh yeah, evolution hasn't actually been proved under scientific conditions in a laboratory, which is one of the prerequsites for something to be considered scientifically valid. Huh. "But wait," say the Darwinists, "evolution takes million of years, so you can't prove it in a laboratory." Precisely, which is why it is a theory and nothing more. "But wait," say the Darwinists, "we may be able to prove it someday under scientific conditions in a laboratory." Maybe ... someday ... in the future ... it's possible ... maybe ... I think that's called "faith." Faith that something might happen, faith that something might be true. Ah, Darwinism, sounds just like a faith-based religion.
Shhh! They'll form a churc
May 25, 2007 - 15:22 ET by heldmywShhh! They'll form a church and demand tax exemptions.
Then they'll be pounding on your door looking for donations!
Then would the ACLU protect o
June 18, 2007 - 14:22 ET by Casey97Then would the ACLU protect our children from this religion of Darwin?
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Ken Ham, President of Answe
May 25, 2007 - 15:19 ET by bigtimerKen Ham, President of Answers in Genesis: “Including dinosaurs, yes, because all land animals were made on Day Six.”
Harris to Ham: “But again, scientists, a lot of scientist-”
Ham: “Secular scientists.”
Harris: “Secular scientists would say, that’s just not true.”
Ham: “Yeah, they can say that, but what’s their scientific proof?”
a million monkeys with typewr
May 25, 2007 - 15:22 ET by vrwc13a million monkeys with typewriters in a million years...
face piles of trials with smiles
Is it just me or does this so
May 25, 2007 - 15:23 ET by Agnostic frontIs it just me or does this sounds like an absolutely riotous day out? Dinosaurs and man walking around together. Man, that's great!
AF...why don't you just go th
May 25, 2007 - 15:26 ET by vrwc13AF...why don't you just go there, listen to what they have to say, and come back and report to us. Then maybe you could have an objective opinion on this.
Come on NB'rs let take up a collection and send him there for summer vaction!
face piles of trials with smiles
Maybe not so far fetched?
May 25, 2007 - 15:28 ET by MightyMouthMaybe not so far fetched?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
MM...don't confuse him with f
May 25, 2007 - 15:30 ET by vrwc13MM...don't confuse him with facts, that's not fair.
BTW: we have a lot of Ken Ham materials at home. One of my favorites teaches the kids to repsond to eviloonitionists with a profound "Were you there?"
face piles of trials with smiles
Maybe I should start a unico
May 25, 2007 - 15:34 ET by Agnostic frontMaybe I should start a unicorn museum, too. Or a dragon museum. Or maybe the Creation Museum will have the fossels of the Seven Dwarves (of Snow White fame). They'll be real little.
Have at it AF...see what kind
May 25, 2007 - 15:37 ET by vrwc13Have at it AF...see what kind of crowds you get. The majority of the people in this country believe in the Bible...sounds like Ken might have an audience, would you?
face piles of trials with smiles
I think a unicorn museum is a
May 25, 2007 - 15:41 ET by FreeInquirerI think a unicorn museum is a good idea. While we're at it, why not open a big foot museum and display photos of more questionable footprints?
The rest of the world is just
May 25, 2007 - 15:46 ET by Agnostic frontThe rest of the world is just laughing and laughing at how dumb we Americans are getting with this crap. I guess it's good for the rest of the world that if this keeps up we'll just have a bunch of retarded scientists who can't think logically. Another chink in the wall of American civilization.
Oh really? The world is so
May 25, 2007 - 16:00 ET by mattmOh really? The world is so sure that Darwin was right? Well, well, I guess a majority of opinion (which doesn't exist, by the way) is proof of a particular fact. Talk about logic? C'mon Agnostic, even your psuedonym suggests that certain things can't be known, yet you say the world is laughing, as if they know something as an absolute fact?
Evolution was never postulated because of a preponderance of scientific evidence, but because of a philosophical question; i.e. without a "God" how could the universe exist? Therefore it's just as "religious" as creationism.
It is absolutely not just as
May 25, 2007 - 16:07 ET by Agnostic frontIt is absolutely not just as "religious" as creationism. Creationist start with the premise and then try to fashion facts to justify the premise. Darwinian evolution is the exact opposite. Have a good holiday fellow non-believers. I guess that's probably no one on this site, though.
You are exactly WRONG!!! Can'
May 25, 2007 - 16:16 ET by mattmYou are exactly WRONG!!! Can't you read? What did I just say?
Darwinism began with a philosophical question as to how to account for the existence of the universe without a Creator - NOT because of scientific evidence - this puts it on the exact same plane, both philosophically and scientifically as Creationism.
ALL scientific inquiry starts with a premise. Evolution starts with the idea that there is no Creator, and creation starts with the premise that there is one.
These two are equivalent! How can you not get that? Your stating the opposite of what I said doesn't prove anything.
And you ridicule other people's logic???? Unreal!
Besides - non-belief is itself a belief.
If you haven't noticed, what
May 25, 2007 - 16:07 ET by kathleenirishIf you haven't noticed, what you refer to as 'the rest of the world' is falling towards irrelevance and will soon be swallowed up by the Muslim fanatics and eaten away from within by government bureaucracy and redundancy. I couldn't care less what Europe thinks of us. I don't laugh at Europe, though, in their lunacy. I know that we can't count on them the way they can count on us. Or, maybe, you meant the U.N. ? Now, THAT'S a real knee-slapper.
" 'Fred's Slacks' is a winner!!"
More facts both pro and con
May 25, 2007 - 15:39 ET by MightyMouthMore facts both pro and con.
An agnostic should love it.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Every carbon dated dinosaur f
May 25, 2007 - 15:53 ET by Agnostic frontEvery carbon dated dinosaur fossel ever found has been at least 64 million years old. We've only been around for a few hundred thousand years. Don't be silly.
Good try but c-14 daying ca
May 25, 2007 - 15:56 ET by The Wicked ConservativeGood try but c-14 daying can't go back that far! Not even close. I've seen different claims about its range but it's longest claim was about 50,000 years and that's a guess since they haven't found organic material that old anywhere.
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
What about the other forty or
May 25, 2007 - 15:58 ET by Agnostic frontWhat about the other forty or so isotopes that can go back further than c-14, including uranium, which goes back 4.5 billion years, amongst others, none of which have ever been contradicted?
Again nothing organic.The man
May 25, 2007 - 16:02 ET by The Wicked ConservativeAgain nothing organic.
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
All radiometric dating techni
May 25, 2007 - 16:05 ET by mattmAll radiometric dating techniques require ASSUMPTIONS as to the original composition of the rocks - and where do they get those ASSUMPTIONS????
INDEX FOSSILS - and how do they date the index fossils???? EVOLUTION!!!
So, the assumption of evolution proves evolution! Simple....
How could they go back 4.5
May 25, 2007 - 16:06 ET by MightyMouthHow could they go back 4.5 billion years if God created them about 10,000 years ago? Something smells funny here... and it aint tumbler this time.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Oh,I heard the answer to t
May 25, 2007 - 15:57 ET by MightyMouthOh,I heard the answer to that is, God made the earth with the appearance of age. What does a "new" rock look like?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Please show me a scientific p
May 25, 2007 - 15:57 ET by NL207Please show me a scientific paper which accurately dates the age of ANY dinosaur fossil by means of radiocarbon measuements. I think you are once again factually incorrect.
Can you get a C-14 date out o
May 25, 2007 - 17:00 ET by danboCan you get a C-14 date out of a dinosaur fossil? It is fossilized. The original matter has been replaced by stone. Almost an agate. Reciently worked with a piece of copolite. Pretty stone. But it wouldn't have survived if it hadn't fossilized.
If my memory is correct. Very old hominids, as Lucy, are so old. C-14 was useless. It's all gone. They had to rely on other means to date them.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Exactly so, but don't tell Mr
May 25, 2007 - 17:07 ET by NL207Exactly so, but don't tell Mr. Terrifc, above, that. He is clueless.
We know his grasp of science
May 25, 2007 - 17:34 ET by danboWe know his grasp of science is limited.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
C-14 is only good for maybe 5
May 25, 2007 - 17:25 ET byC-14 is only good for maybe 50,000 years its based on half-life of the isotope and C-14' s much too short to go further back than that. The radiometric dating of rocks is based on elements with much longer half-lives. It is based on measuring the remaining element vis-a-vis the daughter isotope and isolating the original composition from the ignateous compound
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Thanks botg.Unfortunately. th
May 25, 2007 - 17:51 ET by danboThanks botg.
Unfortunately. the link didn't work.
I knew it was based on half lives. I just don't see it enough to remember the limits of it's effectiveness. Or all the other techniques. It's been a while.Thanks.
50,000 years is way too short to be of use here.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Sorry, it should work now, i
May 25, 2007 - 17:53 ET bySorry, it should work now, i tried to get right to the article but here's a link to it
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
What is the universe containe
May 25, 2007 - 16:11 ET by kathleenirishWhat is the universe contained within? What is it expanding into?
It all just happened by chance. Human life is an accident.
No, sir.
" 'Fred's Slacks' is a winner!!"
MM - those footprints--
May 25, 2007 - 15:57 ET by misterbillDescribed by Charlie as "giant man tracks," these large, elongate footprints (typically 15-18 inches long) were as yet unknown to geologists, but evidently were soon accepted as genuine human footprints by many of the townspeople.
Shaq???
Maybe not so far fetched...
May 25, 2007 - 15:37 ET by balboaMaybe not so far fetched...but I'll hold off on that until I see more verification. There could be a hundred explanations for those tracks.
Cmon Amigo, your not gonna
May 25, 2007 - 15:43 ET by MightyMouthCmon Amigo, your not gonna believe it till a dinosaur takes a bite out of your backside! :-) And then you'll be like: "only ONE dinosaur? big deal"
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Yeah, and the reason that the
May 25, 2007 - 15:47 ET by Agnostic frontYeah, and the reason that the dinosaurs died out is because Noah couldn't fit them into his ark. Right?
Come on Aggy what happened
May 25, 2007 - 15:50 ET by The Wicked ConservativeCome on Aggy what happened to you? Why do you not just disagree with christianity, you hate it. What happened?
The man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
I do not hate Christianity. I
May 25, 2007 - 15:55 ET by Agnostic frontI do not hate Christianity. I just have little tolerance for illogical thought. All religious belief falls into that catagory.
"All religious belief...
May 25, 2007 - 16:08 ET by mattm"All religious belief..." Like agnosticism????
That's a philosophical statement, which is the same as religious thought, which you say is illogical!
Welcome to the realm of the fanatical religious nutcases!
No, I think one theory is t
May 25, 2007 - 15:52 ET by MightyMouthNo, I think one theory is that the ice canopy fell (causing the flood) and the dinosaur's couldn't handle the extra sun (no good dino sp 450 sun tan lotion).
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Actually, I thought it was Gl
May 26, 2007 - 17:43 ET by Roger the ShrubberActually, I thought it was Global Warming, caused by all those dinosaur-driven SUVs... Perhaps the dinosaurs did not purchase enough carbon credits to save themselves from instinction.
In Glen Rose, TX at Dinosaur
May 25, 2007 - 15:37 ET by Subsailor599In Glen Rose, TX at Dinosaur Park, they found human footprints next to dinosaur footprints in the same layer of what was mud at the time, now rock. Explain that one.
Rosie???
May 25, 2007 - 15:40 ET by misterbillRosie??? Oooops wrong thread????
Mr bill, I think you should
May 25, 2007 - 15:49 ET by MightyMouthMr bill, I think you should post it here...
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
MM I need Windex for my monitor screen---
May 25, 2007 - 15:54 ET by misterbillMM I need Windex for my monitor screen---
As to the picture -A little lipstick would round it out. I hesitate to comment on the exposed teats, but I imagine they have the same effect as Rosie's.
Speaking of Rosie...I just he
May 25, 2007 - 15:52 ET by bigtimerSpeaking of Rosie...I just heard she is done for good on The View...
....all I can say is....
Thank God!
I'm sick of hearing about her.
Great! I think I'll have a
May 25, 2007 - 15:53 ET by MightyMouthGreat! I think I'll have a beer to celebrate! cheers!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Yaaaaaahhhhooooooo!!!!!! On
May 25, 2007 - 15:59 ET by kathleenirishYaaaaaahhhhooooooo!!!!!! One down, two cohort torli's to go...Maher and Olbermann. I know there are millions of gobshites in the media but they are the worst, to me, anyway.
torli: totally obnoxious retarded liberal idiots...
Never mind Michael Moore. He exceeds all description.
" 'Fred's Slacks' is a winner!!"
OMG___ all the animals are---
May 25, 2007 - 15:24 ET by misterbillOMG___ all the animals are---NAKED!!! Where is PETA---where is Darwin. Help us out, here.
Ken Ham
May 25, 2007 - 15:56 ET by NortoBeliever
I experienced Ken many years ago in a small school auditoreum and he is a great spokesman for the science of creation. What is not known about the science is tons of stuff the msm is not telling. Like 80 foot peach trees suspended upside down in ice of the
Arctic Circle. Why upside down, because trees float with the root ball up and when The Flood occurred, the earth was no longer protected by that upper(7th) layer of water and the poles froze. Fascinating stuff that even caused this Christians chin to drop.
His best line to an evolutionist when they expound on their "theory" is, "were you there?"
Creation has as its proof, recorded history by those most inveterate of note taker/keepers, His Chosen, the Hebrews.
Thank you for this post as I was not aware of the new museum. The ratio of comments is about what I expected from this site. Thanks again.
yes, this museum is CLEARLY
May 25, 2007 - 16:12 ET by lnthompyes, this museum is CLEARLY a huge danger to all the children in the world, because every child is going to be shackled to a fundamentalist preacher and forced to view all the exhibits. /sarc
If you don't want your children to see it, DON'T TAKE THEM THERE! It's not as if there's a giant vacuum sucking you in if you get within 100 miles. Why is this a big deal?
Lee T.
U.S. Navy (ret.) / Vancouver, Washington
The history of the race, and each individual's experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.-- Mark Twain
Exactly lnt.It is that simple
May 25, 2007 - 16:20 ET by bigtimerExactly lnt.
It is that simple...but leave it to the leftist in the msm to attack anything to do with religion.
It does get old.
Excuse me, but..
May 25, 2007 - 17:22 ET by goldenthroatIsn't it ABC that shows "The Ten Commandments" every Easter?
And if I am not mistaken, that is based on - the Bible? Hmmmm...guess they'll have to rethink their programming philosphy now.
Never dance on an empty stomach unless it's a liberal.
Old earth/young earth
May 25, 2007 - 17:43 ET by sdbI apologize for the incredible length in advance.
I may get some flames from posting this, but since I most likely will not have time to get back to this thread after posting, what do I care? It is possible to hold to old earth/older universe beliefs and still be in line with biblical Christianity.
Science tells us that the earth is over 4 billion years old. The Bible says God created everything in six days. Our science could be wrong. What we think is 4 billion years old may only be 4,000. I have trouble accepting that. Fossils give us a pretty good picture of times going back millions of years, but they are incomplete, with so-called 'explosions' of new creatures seemingly appearing out of nowhere with no transitional elements. We may yet find those transitional fossils (the missing link?), but that is unlikely. The time periods between new creatures is too short, and we have such an abundance of fossil records that finding something so completely new is remote at best.
There is a theory that God created everything old (like creating light 'in transit' so it only appears to have travelled a great distance). But this brings about some difficult philosophical issues. It means that God has intentionally deceived us. I have trouble with that, too. It means we can't be sure of anything that has happened in what we call the past (including Christ's death and resurrection). How can you be sure that the things you remember from 5 years or even 5 minutes ago actually happened? Put simply, you can't.
So how do I reconcile these beliefs? Well, I am NOT a theistic evolutionist. The aforementioned fossil explosions seem to discount evolution and provide support for the biblical telling of creation; God spoke the animals into existance fully-formed and mature. But the 'six days' spoken of in the Bible seems to contradict everything else about the fossil records. After all we can't use the fossil record to support Biblical creation by pointing to its gaps, and at the same time brush it aside when it puts the age of the earth at billions of years. Well, I guess you could, but that would make you a hypocrite. Either take the fossil record as a whole, or discount it entirely.
So I take it as a whole. But then I must reconcile the days of creation. Six days. Twenty-four hour days? Possibly. That's the only way the Hebrews of the time would of understood it. But the sun, moon, and stars weren't created until the fourth 'day.' How can you have days without the sun, moon, and stars to define them? Maybe the day was longer. That would take care of the age of the earth, but not the 'fourth day' problem. Or even the first day problem when God created light, separated it from dark, and called them night and day. Day must mean something other than what we consider a day. I'm not a biblical scholar and I don't know Hebrew, but I have studied some who believe that the word we translate into 'day' is used in other places in the Old Testament to mean simply 'a period of time.' This would solve both problems. A day is no longer defined by the sun, and does not have to be 24 hours long. And, after all, what is a day to God. A day is like a million years and all that. Gen 1:2 also tells us that 'the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters' just after the earth was created.
What we're left with is God being intimately involved with his creation over vast amounts of time. For the non-believer, you don't have to play any mental gymnastics to make it all work. But you do have to study, apply some reason and common sense, and work at gaining the knowledge necessary to more fully understand the subject. For the believer, you don't have to water down or turn away from your faith to make it all work. But you do have to study, apply some reason and common sense, and work at gaining the knowledge necessary to more fully understand the subject.
Here is the website I usually go to for such information. (Search for 'testable creation model' for more on this particular subject.) As I said before, I will probably not come back to this article after posting, so any discussion you may want to have will have to be amoungst yourselves. You can PM if you want, but I make no promises. However, I am unlikely to be swayed from my position by any information provided in such a format as this. (I'm not being closed-minded or judgemental, just realistic. I'm simply not around enough to have any kind of meaningful dialog, if such a thing is even possible in this setting. I'm still not convinced it is.)
One more thing for those of faith. No matter what you believe about old earth/young earth creation, keep in mind that it is not a salvation issue. The single message of the Bible is God's grace given freely to those who don't deserve it because of Christ's death and resurrection. Those should, ultimately, be the focus of any religious discussion.
The first sentence of your s
May 25, 2007 - 18:18 ET by mattmThe first sentence of your second paragraph is wrong. "Science says the Earth is over 4 billion years old..." That is not what "science" says, it's what certain scientists who have a philosophical assumption to uphold say.
Evolutionists interpret certain data to get old ages for the Earth because old ages are required for evolution to even seem plausible. In other words, they assume old ages based on the assumption of Evolution... this is not "science".
They also ignore young age evidence, such as polonium radiohalos (which require instantaneous formation of rock) and the decay rate of the Earth's magnetic field , etc. Why do they ignore or explain away this evidence? Because if they don't, they'd be forced to change their philosophy...
Evolutionists interpret certa
May 25, 2007 - 18:39 ET byEvolutionists interpret certain data to get old ages for the Earth because old ages are required for evolution to even seem plausible. In other words, they assume old ages based on the assumption of Evolution... this is not "science".
Straw-man, the disciplines are separate geologists, astronomers et al really have no direct link to evolution theory. You postulate motive, how do you know? BTW they could triple the time and there still wouldn't be enough for abiogenesis alone.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Wrong Yardstick to measure Creation by speed of light.
May 25, 2007 - 21:19 ET by Gilbotg; First I will take aim at your postulate that the astronomers who say the galaxy is old are correct in their underlying assumptions which make the universe OLD. The problem with their underlying assumption is that they are using the wrong measuring stick. They measure from us to the stars using the measuring stick, not of decay, but of light. They are therefore expecting that the speed of light is constant (as Einstein said it is).. AND (this is BIG, folks) that that was also true at the time of the Creation. The problem is, again, that no one was there. We can say that the speed of light is constant NOW, but was it always? Were the laws which govern this universe also the limits at the time of its creation? If there was a "Big Bang" - did that explosion ONLY happen at the speed of light? What if it did not? What if, for a time, it moved FASTER than the speed of light "in the beginning"? If the heavenly bodies we see today exploded almost instantaneously into those positions and have now DEcelerated to the present "slow" speed of light, then measuring the distance from us to them and calling that measurement TIME is wrong. It is like standing 200 yards away from a 20 foot thick wall of jello and shooting a bullet from a gun at it . If you measure the distance from you to where the bullet "stopped" in the jello, then use the measurement of how fast the bullet was going during the time it was in the jello (using the jello time as travelling at the speed of light) then the time from the gun's trigger being pulled to the time of the bullet being in its position now will be longer than if you recognise that there was a change in the rate of acceleration. The acceleration from the gun to the slowed speed in the jello is like the time from the Big Bang explosion until the universe hit the slower and now constant speed of light. If you go backwards using the rate of speed from the jello speed (current light speed), you would not be correct in your time value. They are not right in their time values concerning the speed of light at the beginning of time or how fast those bodies were put into their places, because when the universe was forming, it was at a faster rate than it is now. That was the simple explanation.. now for the more complicated one. Taking this one step further.. it is now understood by experts in the field that the Big Bang did not happen from one location, but from all points at the same time... "from everywhere all at once". This proves that it was not an explosion from one location which happened at the speed of light. Notice that the speed of light is how we measure the distance between us and the celestial bodies, and thus, by using it as our yardstick, we determine that the universe must be old. From a NASA government document an Astrophysicist says:
Therefore the Big Bang occurred everywhere all at once. You could not assign a location to it. The Big Bang was not so much an explosion really as the start of a great expansion, which continues even now. The rate of expansion would appear to be roughly the same, aside from local anisotropies, no matter where in the Universe you are.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980327a.html
If the Big Bang occurred everywhere and all at once, then measuring the distance from one place to another using the "yardstick" of the speed of light is meaningless as a measurement of time. It only is a measurement of DISTANCE. We can say it is two hundred billion light years to a star.. but we cannot say that it got there two hundred billion years ago, because it was put in that place all at once. Hope that doesn't confuse you.
Gil.
For those who think the Ear
May 25, 2007 - 21:27 ET by Free StinkerFor those who think the Earth is young, but the Universe is old, may want to read Starlight & Time.
The author has an interesting theory about how the Earth could be only 5-10 thousand years old in a Universe millions of years old.
Me, I don't think that science has any solid idea of the age of the universe or the Earth, and I also don't believe that the Bible specifically states anything that shows the Earth is 5-10 thousand years old.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Fred Thompson and Ann Coulter walk into a bar. The bar is instantly destroyed because that much awesome cannot be contained in one building.
I've been to the ICR museum e
May 25, 2007 - 21:45 ET byI've been to the ICR museum even read some of Morris' books some good stuff there. I find this group of believers to be somewhat more up on the science.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
That was the simple explanati
May 25, 2007 - 21:56 ET byThat was the simple explanation.. now for the more complicated one. Taking this one step further.. it is now understood by experts in the field that the Big Bang did not happen from one location, but from all points at the same time... "from everywhere all at once".
You are putting the math into laymens terms and misunderstanding. The everywhere at once is the dimension we don't have direct access to upon which the universe continues to expand. A crude example would be the surface of a baloon being blown up so the 2 dimensions expand everywhere at once. Now raise that by a dimension so the 3 dimensions are expanding everywhere at once.
I also tend to think that to assume the speed of light is NOT constant is leading the evidence rather than following the evidence.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Oversimplification, perhaps..
May 25, 2007 - 22:16 ET by GilOversimplification, perhaps.. I know the extradimensions of String Theory are in play here, but the point I was making is valid. The measuring stick of the speed of light is wrong.. as in.. saying.. this star it two hundred million (or billion) light YEARS away.. is not a measurement of time showing our universe is that OLD.. only showing distance. If the surface of the balloon is blown up all at once, you cannot say that point A and Point B are billions of years OLD because they are billions of light years APART. Age and distance are separate.
Gil.
PS Thanks for the interesting url. :)
Botg. Hope you don't mind me
May 25, 2007 - 23:08 ET by danboBotg. Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. And I'm not sure why I'm jumping in.
From the geologic side. There are at least 5 strata of salt under the Gulf of Mexico, and likewuise under the Med. They're seperated by strata of sedimentry rock. Baring a divine intervention and anomality. The logical cause is that the Gulf and Med. became land locked. Evaporation caused the salt to settle to the bottom in thick layers. (like the Great Salt lake.) the Gulf was then opened to the sea again to bring the sediments back. This happened at least 5 times.
For the earth to be young. When did this happen? And in geologic time. those salt strata are young.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Wrong Yardstick = measuring the age of rocks
May 25, 2007 - 20:19 ET by Gilsdb, thank you for your comments. They prompted me to come out of the woodwork and post, though I have been a member and lurked here an awful lot.
Let me just inject into this discussion something you may not have thought of before. When the scientists of today say the earth is OLD they have certain underlying presumptions in their viewpoint. Looking at rocks, how do they figure out how old they are? Since no one alive saw these things form, what can we do to figure out how old they are? We must take the rock and then postulate backward to find out how old it is. There are certain scientific PRESUMPTIONS they must make to do this. Among them are the two postulates you should be aware of. First, they think the rocks must have been formed completely young and perfect (your theory, maybe they were created old, talks to that concern) and then the idea that they must decay at the current rate of speed from that "young" age until now. Both of these are PRESUMED to be true, or postulates. What if those underlying assumptions are wrong? What if something changed the decay rates?
For instance... if you take two rocks, one on land, one in the sea, and after a hundred years you date them, do they have the same deterioration rates? Well, they don't. When you check the water sample against the air sample, they decay differently. So it seems that a variable they expect to remain constant - that the same sample of rock in water as on land will decay equally - tends to rely on the belief that the samples we look at of rocks must have been high and dry and not subject to extremes in temperature or environment. Otherwise, the samples age at varying rates. We can do experiments which show different rates of decay FOR THE SAME SUBSTANCE. So the real problem is the underlying ASSUMPTION that we can arrive at the date of a rock (which is what we base our idea the earth is OLD upon) with complete certainty based on these postulates. If the underlying assumptions are wrong (and Noah's flood where water covers the earth for a good YEAR would never be taken into account as far as accelerated decay is concerned), then their "old age" for the earth is also wrong. Dating the age of the earth by rock samples when we do not know the "START" state leads to fallacy. Have you ever read "Evidences for a young earth".. which shows all the evidence which supports a young age of the earth based on something other than the few samples of rocks which have to decay over very very long periods of time (with long postulated decay rates)?
Try http://icr.org/ and search a bit in there. http://icr.org/article/114/ is a good one to begin with.. where the Creation scientists have so backed the evolutionists into a corner that they had to flee from the regular decay rates and take refuge in the nuclear decay of rocks.. and that proves a young Creation, too.. by the science.
As the article explains, by using experiments to measure how rapidly nuclear-decay-generated Helium escapes from tiny radio-active crystals in granite-like rock, "The Helium loss rate is so high that almost all of it would have escaped during the alleged 1.5 billion year uniformitarian age of the rock, and there would be very little Helium in the crystals today. But the crystals in granitic rock presently contain a very large amount of Helium, and the new experiments support an age of only 6000 years." Useful science to know.. and helpful in understanding the reason some pick up a rock and say, "old" and another picks up that same rock and says, "young".. Just a starting place.. to look.
Gil.
Oh and being forced to watch
May 25, 2007 - 18:10 ET by sembyOh and being forced to watch the movie An Inconvenient Truth created by a politician who knows nothing about science is not harmful; listening to SAM CHAMPION the GMA weatherman who only has a degree in broadcast media and who knows nothing about climatology, is not harmful.
But remember folks, the DEBATE IS OVER, there is overwhelming proof that global warming exists but not creation.
This museum is located in the US and can and should be allowed to show this.
ABC is pathetic - anyone see Rosie lately?
ABC is harmful to children, Robin!
Genesis 1 says "In the b
May 25, 2007 - 21:50 ET by MikeBGenesis 1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." It does not say when that beginning was, or for how long the earth was "void and without form". Nor, does the Bible say that the creative days were 24 hours long.
Psalms 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." In this one verse, a thousand years is compared to a day and to a 4 hour night watch.
I might also remind you of such phrases as "...in my day..." Which day was that? Last Thursday? Besides being a discrete 12 or 24 hour period, a "day" can be an undefined period of time. Can you say for a certainty that the Biblical creative days were only 24 hours each? I don't think so.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
The Bible makes it very clear
May 26, 2007 - 05:46 ET by stanleygoodspeedThe Bible makes it very clear ... the six days were 24 hour time periods.
Genesis 1:5
... And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8
... And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31
... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Is it so extraordinary to think that God Almighty could put the heavens and the earth back into order in just six days?
Genesis 1:2And the earth was
May 26, 2007 - 06:59 ET by stanleygoodspeedGenesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void [hayah tohu vohu ... the earth BECAME without form and void]; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The heavens and earth that we now see are the SECOND heavens and earth.
The Devil racked and ruined the first one.
Revelation 12:7-9
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
THAT is why the moon, Mercury, Mars, and the moons of the other planets are riddled with meteor impacts ... when Lucifer was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels they brought such cataclysmic impact to the solar system that God had to say, "Let there be light", and then start putting things back in order on earth.
The Gap theory...been around
May 26, 2007 - 11:28 ET by vrwc13The Gap theory...been around for a long time. Donald Grey Barnhouse has an excellent book on both the realm of Satan and his pre-Creation existance and the time between Gen1 verse one and two. "Invisible War" is a great read.
face piles of trials with smiles
Can't see the forrest for the trees
May 26, 2007 - 13:40 ET by c5thenYou are using an Egnlish translation of a Greek translation of Hebrew in order to discuss the specific meaning of an english word that was used. This can shed no light on the intention of the original text. You have to go back to the original language to do this type of study.
Hebrew has "olam" for time period and the specific meaning must be deduced through context. Hebrew also has the definite article, "ha", as english has "the". So "Ha olam" in Hebrew means "the time" in english which is taken to mean "day". Genesis Chapter 1 when writting about the creation, omits the "ha" and uses olam, so a more accurate translation would be time period, not day. The greek translator, when they saw the phrase "the beginning and end of the _____ time period , and understanding the hebrew custom of measuring days from sundown to sundown, naturally though this was referring to a "day". So instead of " it was the beginning and the ending of the first time period" we have "it was the evening and the morning of the first day".
Second point: All that was created was created fully formed and "adult". There was no growing up to do. Adam and Eve were created as adults, not as babies. The animals and plants were created in their adult forms. It is logical to infer that the stars, planets, Sun and Earth were also created this way.
Third Point: When Darwin described the variation that he found in the Galapogos Islands and other places, he described finches that had diversified into various other types of finches. He described tortoises that had diversified into various types of tortoises. He did not describe finces that had diversified into swifts, and thurushes and raptors. This is in accordance with what the scripture says: "Each according to it's kind". It is logical to assume, from observations that a specific kind of organism can adapt and change into another kind of that same organism if the conditions are right and the opportunity presents itself. Going any further and assuming that a sheep can change into a lion is not justified.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
Mike -- I agree with you.I
May 26, 2007 - 13:48 ET by Jack BauerMike -- I agree with you.
I find nothing in Genesis that denies the big bang theory of something being formed from nothing in a cataclysmic event at the start of the universe.
I also agree with the conceptions of space/time being relative to the situation at hand.
If only because our 24 hour day on earth is predicated on the orbit of our planet around our Sun. If God is the creator and doer of all, then he can also have a 'day' that stretches one billion years, if he so commands it.
And seriously folks, I have no intention of getting into dense theological debate on personal belief systems either!
Jack,Is that how we get two d
May 26, 2007 - 13:54 ET byJack,
Is that how we get two days before the sun is created?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
God knows. But that's above
May 26, 2007 - 13:59 ET by Jack BauerGod knows. But that's above my pray grade.
"Critics say it is harmf
May 26, 2007 - 23:09 ET by resot4em"Critics say it is harmful to schoolchildren."
Let me get this straight: A privately funded museum (unlike the Smithsonian) presents a consistently biblical worldview - the same worldview that many scientists like Newton had - and so-called scientific experts say it's harmful to schoolchildren?
Give me a break.
For visual evidence men knew dinosaurs (specifically sauropods) as recently as 500 years ago, see the picture in this link.
http://www.talkorigins.org/in
May 26, 2007 - 23:16 ET by M J Bhttp://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
Explain these comments.
This site becomes more wacko by the minute.
MJBwhat comments? it's an ind
May 26, 2007 - 23:24 ET byMJB
what comments? it's an index of articles.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.