On Thursday’s morning shows, all three networks covered the dust-up between Rosie O’Donnell and Elisabeth Hasselbeck on "The View," but only ABC’s "Good Morning America" framed the shouting match as "a debate that is playing out over kitchen tables across the country."
Really? Americans are having spirited discussions during supper over "who are the terrorists?" Because that’s what "The View" co-hosts were debating, Ms. O’Donnell’s insinuations that the U.S. is responsible for the deaths of Iraqi civilians and, therefore, an enabler of terrorism, at the very least.
GMA co-host Robin Roberts began the May 24 segment by asserting that O’Donnell’s over-the-top comments had larger implications:
Robin Roberts: "I'm going to turn now to what's being called the war over the war, a war of words that erupted between Rosie O’Donnell and Elisabeth Hasselbeck on the ABC show ‘The View.’ The trigger point? America's involvement in the war in Iraq. A political sparring match that turned personal and one that's sparking a larger debate about what we can and cannot say about the war. And ABC's Dan Harris has more on that. It got really ugly yesterday."
Dan Harris: "You don’t expect to see it on ‘The View,’ do you? Robin, good morning. On some level, this may be a conflict between two people who have, shall we say, a tense personal relationship. But this is also a debate that is playing out over kitchen tables across the country. Here’s the question, how far can you go in criticizing the war without insulting the troops?"
After showing several clips from Wednesday’s shout-fest and the comedienne’s comment’s from the previous week that precipitated it, reporter Dan Harris expounded on the larger implications:
Harris: "This is the latest example of how difficult it is to strike a balance between criticizing the war and supporting the troops."
David Gergen (Kennedy School of Government): "There are no clear lines about how far you can go in criticizing a government during times of war, but there are customs. One custom is you can criticize the president, you can also criticize the generals but you can't criticize the troops."
Harris: "In the presidential race, both Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama have had to backtrack after saying the lives of soldiers were, quote, ‘wasted’ in Iraq."
Noticeably absent from Mr. Harris’ list was John Kerry. In 2005, he told Bob Schieffer on "Face the Nation" that U.S. soldiers shouldn’t be "terrorizing" Iraqi children. Perhaps this could be an example of the type of kitchen table debate that Robin Roberts referred to?
It should be noted that ABC, which also airs "The View," was the only network to attempt to draw a bigger meaning out of O’Donnell’s assertions. "The Early Show" on CBS simply replayed the juiciest moments while anchors Julie Chen and Hannah Storm looked on and ate popcorn. Over on NBC, the "Today" show did much the same. However, co-host and former "View" alum Meredith Vieira made sure to mention that she is out of the loop and doesn’t "get involved" in disputes between her former colleagues.
Finally, ABC even compared this situation to former on-air battles, such as William F. Buckley’s famous 1968 verbal smackdown of author Gore Vidal:
Harris: "In every war, there's conflict between the hawks and the doves. Check out this Vietnam-era exchange between liberal Gore Vidal and conservative William Buckley."
[File footage]
Gore Vidal: "And the only, sort of, pro-war crypto-Nazi I can think of is yourself. Failing that, I will only say that we can’t have–"
William F. Buckley: "Now, listen you [Bleeped]. Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll knock you in the [Bleeped] face and you'll stay plastered!"
Rosie O’Donnell is scheduled to remain on "The View" for three more weeks. Perhaps she’ll expand on her other theories, including the ones that include bizarre 9/11 conspiracies. Maybe GMA will be able to tell viewers what "larger debates" they are sparking.
—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.















Comments Policy
I addressed this already in t
May 24, 2007 - 12:50 ET by jpatchI addressed this already in the previous column about the traitor Rosie, but this is exactly what I was afraid of...
I'm going to go find my post and re-post it here...
You know, I caught a couple m
May 24, 2007 - 12:53 ET by jpatchYou know, I caught a couple minutes of CNN last night, and they were doing a re-cap of the View from yesterday, and of course, they sign off by saying, "those two need a mediator...they need to sit down with a cup of tea and work things out with each other..." as if to assign guilt to BOTH parties, it's like, "Geeez, those two really have a problem with one another" Instead of, "Rosie continued to refuse to answer questions about her statement regarding American troops as terrorists, and Elizabeth wasn't going to let her get away with it again..."
same thing happens ALL OF THE TIME, and it drives me nuts. if one person starts a fight, in any way, and the person who is being assailed fights back, then they BOTH have a problem. INCORRECT!!!! The fight began with Rosie's disrespectful, ignorant and treasonous remarks, for which she produced ZERO evidence in support, and then when called on her obvious fallacies, she blames:
1. FoxNews for "spinning" her words
2. the Republicans
3. Elizabeth for not being her friend
Free life lesson for the liberals: Just because there are two people in a fight, doesn't mean that they are both instigators...also, just because there are civilizations that are in a fight, doesn't mean that they are all equally responsible for its incitation...
i mean Lord have mercy, the terrorists have videos, books and living proof of their intentions (Madrid, Bali, Mombai, London, USS Cole, WTC '93, WTC 2001) not to mention the millenia of war that they've been waging in the name of Islam...but hey, it's our fault too, we use oil!!!!
3. Elizabeth for not being he
May 24, 2007 - 13:36 ET by Gothampc3. Elizabeth for not being her friend
Most humans abandon this argument in about the fourth grade.
I guess "being a friend" to Rosie means you agree with everything she says.
What is still being missed in Elisabeth kicks Rosie
May 24, 2007 - 16:10 ET by SportPoliticsWhat is still being missed in Elisabeth kicks Rosie.
Listen to the posted video from yesterday, Elisabeth DOES claim she said she didn't believe Rosie thinks the troops are terorrists.
She says it flat out in the video. I guess all the other stuff means Rosie and almost everyone else misses it.
IT'S THERE.
" I don't believe that you belive troops are terrorists. I've said that before, but when you say..."
If the image of Rosie comes i
May 24, 2007 - 12:59 ET by general companyIf the image of Rosie comes into my mind during dinner, Id loose my appetite.Ahh, new diet plan?
There is proof that the media
May 24, 2007 - 13:01 ET by FastEdThere is proof that the media personalities have nothing but their personalities, and it comes from a surprising source.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
rooshie
May 24, 2007 - 14:51 ET by tejanodiablofatties and dykes and liers, oh no !
how can rooshie sleep at night ? .. or does she hang from the ceiling or close the lid on her casket for awhile ??
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
Partially right - she hangs i
May 24, 2007 - 15:02 ET by FastEdPartially right - she hangs in some contraption that "helps" her somehow - and here's your skunk.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
I am going to follow Jpatch's
May 24, 2007 - 13:09 ET byI am going to follow Jpatch's lead and copy/paste what I had already posted on this topic, only over in the forum area.
With Friends like Rosie, does Elizabeth need Enemies?
Rosie went off on Elizabeth [yesterday], blaming her for what right wing people are saying. Rosie wants Elizabeth to defend Rosie by going off on those who speak against Rosie. It is clear that Elizabeth believes that Rosie's own words get her into trouble, as most people realize this.
Rosie said that people look at her as big fat lesbian Rosie, going after sweet little Christian Elizabeth.
Well, first off, I have never heard Elizabeth say she is a Christian, and though she is for the most part a sweet thing, I don't believe she is. Rosie does not recall that there have been times that Elizabeth has spoken negatively about true Christianity.
I see Elizabeth as someone who is searching and may very well end up a true believer some day. I like Elizabeth and I think that Rosie's real problem with Elizabeth has more to do with Elizabeth being absolutely beautiful, tremendously likeable, and the epitome of a woman.
Rosie kept throwing up to Elizabeth that they are friends. That is not what a friendship is.
I was in the thick of a group of homosexuals over on AOL, and I know how homosexuals like Rosie 'work' their 'friends.'
Their idea of a friend is someone who bows to them and does what they want them to do. What Rosie was really saying was this:
My translation: "I order you to be my friend and as such you will defend my every way, move, and word. If you do not, then you are a bad friend and I then degrade and blame you for my pain."
Debra...
www.InformingChristians.com
There you go again... decidin
May 24, 2007 - 13:30 ET by bigtimerThere you go again... deciding if Elizabeth is a true Christian again....you just can't help yourself can you Debra.
Like I said before....aren't you special.
Debra is on fire for Jesus wh
May 24, 2007 - 14:39 ET by TruthMongerDebra is on fire for Jesus which is great, but judgement is a very tricky business...try to exercise great caution, care, humility, love, affection...
My general rule is that it's very important to speak of the critical judgements you make about yourself at least as much as others...preferably moreso...
http://bible.cc/matthew/7-5.htm
P.S As many of you know I get very nasty on quite a regular basis...
nonsense, TruthMonger
May 24, 2007 - 14:44 ET by tumblerDebra is mainly on fire for her scriptural interpretation and the pride she takes in it. Those truly on fire for Jesus don't deny what He taught us.
Yet there is still time for Debra. Like most of us, her life on earth is a pilgrimage. Only some arrive late. We must pray for her; call her out of her presumption and error. With God nothing's impossible.
"We must pray for her&qu
May 24, 2007 - 15:36 ET by TruthMonger"We must pray for her"
Hear, hear...let's pray for all of us...
Jesus didn't look very proud on the cross this morning when I had to nail Him back up there again for my daily transgressions...he looked very humble...
TM...paid in full. Aren't y
May 24, 2007 - 15:43 ET by vrwc13TM...paid in full. Aren't you glad you don't have to "pay" your bill every day, or at least every Sunday morning. Maybe that's why Tumblers cross has Him still hanging there.
BTW, how would one know when they have "earned" enough? Hmmm, how many "good works" did the thief on the cross next to Him have?
face piles of trials with smiles
do you know what you're talking about ?
May 24, 2007 - 15:50 ET by tumblerJust what new mischief are you carving out of BS now, vrwc13 ?
I have no cross. I "earn" nothing, all I have is what God gives us freely; faith. I suppose God gave you license to change his holy Word ? Because that's what you do; you mix your private opinions in amidst the scripture. It's a result of your human nature.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus was not equivalent to you with a Bible, getting free rides from Jesus. You forgot His words: "As you sow shall you reap." Today you're sowing discord and falsehood.
Tumby, just what part of God'
May 24, 2007 - 16:04 ET by vrwc13Tumby, just what part of God's word have I changed? And I have seen a lot of your posts. Where is your "truth" with love?
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13Having read many of your posts, especially the ones supporting ILLEGAL aliens, I have seen a lot of impatience, unkindness, pride, rudeness, anger...where is the love..."You shall know them by their fruits" Mt 7:16a
face piles of trials with smiles
wrwcsie; you call it scripture
May 24, 2007 - 16:22 ET by tumblerYou HAVE changed the scriptures, and you can't deny it. Sola fide isn't at all a biblical teaching. You think it's something from the Bible. Jesus is very serious about sin, however.
He says, "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it away;"
You say you're saved, nothing to do but use your biblical "ticket" of faith alone. That is pure sectarian misinterpretation of Bible truth. And you accuse me of lacking love ? I love the truth, not falsehood.
I love God; and I love my neighbor as myself. You're a hate-monger as well as an anti-catholic. Let me remind you also; TOUGH LOVE is called for when a supposed Christian changes the meaning of God's Word to suit his own agenda. Christ wasn't offended by sinners; He was offended by Pharisees who wanted to trap Him in some mistake. He called them a "brood of vipers," (Sounds ad hominem to me. So I can use it as a precedent.) John the Baptist confronted men in their sins. He wasn't mealy-mouthed, he was FEISTY !
What is it about James' epistle you wanted misunderstood, now ? Oh; dead faith. That's right. Faith without works is DEAD.
tumbler,(i should have my h
May 24, 2007 - 16:27 ET by MightyMouthtumbler,
(i should have my head examined for doing this...)
If the Church ( I am talking about the one true universal church) advocates something that is in direct contradiction to Scipture, which is correct?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
this should be good...waiting
May 24, 2007 - 16:44 ET by vrwc13this should be good...waiting on Tumby's reply...
Btw MM sometimes ya just gotta do it
face piles of trials with smiles
MM ...you are crazy
May 24, 2007 - 16:45 ET by LionKingMM...you are crazy. Arguing Christianity with a Catholic. Remember, they consider Mary as the co-redeemer. Praying to Mary as well as their saints...I am not a theologian, but that seems close to putting someone on equal status as God.
"there you go again"
May 24, 2007 - 16:48 ET by vrwc13"there you go again"...3....2....1....
face piles of trials with smiles
Crazy... like a fox guys. :
May 24, 2007 - 16:54 ET by MightyMouthCrazy... like a fox guys. :-)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
some would consider this entr
May 24, 2007 - 16:57 ET by vrwc13some would consider this entrapment
face piles of trials with smiles
lion is a liar
May 24, 2007 - 17:05 ET by tumblerWhat ???
Nobody in the Catholic Church says Mary is a redeemer. Or co-redeemer. Please restrict yourself to telling only the truth, lion. Our Redeemer is Jesus, not Mary or anyone else. He redeemed us by His death on the cross.
We pray for the INTERCESSION of saints. Not TO the saints. Mary prays for us, to her Holy Son, Jesus. It's seen in the Bible, she did it there, and the apostle John records it so, to teach us it can be done. (John 2 :1 through 10)
TUMBLER ...LEARN the TRUTH
May 24, 2007 - 17:14 ET by LionKingSo sad to be a Catholic and not understand your own doctrine.
Read this and weep.
btw, DO NOT EVER REFER TO ME AS A LIAR AGAIN!
read it yourself, liar
May 24, 2007 - 17:17 ET by tumblerMary is not our redeemer nor a co-redeemer. Period.
Sad Tumbler, you believe in y
May 24, 2007 - 19:29 ET by vrwc13Sad Tumbler, you believe in your church, but yet you do not know what your your church believes.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-19633321.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1834733/posts
face piles of trials with smiles
there's a genius at work
May 24, 2007 - 19:47 ET by tumblerFYI dear vrwc13;
I haven't any church. That's because I'm not a denominational kook; of whom there are thousands. They all start churches on their own. Tumbler isn't making up a Church; the Church is absolutely alive and well; and Jesus Christ founded her, not moi.
As for "knowing" what she teaches; you're damn tootin' I do. Shoot me a question; don't ask any encyclopedia. I'll give you the unvarnished truth about Catholic doctrine. Come now; take your best shot.
Jesus did not found the church
May 24, 2007 - 19:51 ET by LionKingJesus did not found the church. God is the Foundation and Jesus is the Cornerstone.
Once again, tumbler ritual of ad hominem attacks. If you cannot sway with facts, resort to name-calling.
Tumb start with two:
May 24, 2007 - 19:52 ET by vrwc13face piles of trials with smiles
vrwc13--
May 24, 2007 - 19:58 ET by misterbillI don't know about Catholics, but All Dogs Go To Heaven.
Ah the evening crew has check
May 24, 2007 - 20:04 ET by vrwc13Ah the evening crew has checked in. Time for me to go home for dinner. Tumbler is cranking today, and cranky. Looks like his vacation did not mellow him a bit.
Tumbler, truely I will be praying for you tonight.
face piles of trials with smiles
Vrwc13 I hope you are not--
May 24, 2007 - 20:27 ET by misterbillVRWC13 I hope you are not leaving because of me---Please don't I do not intend to stay on now that the site has reverted to a religious debating board.
So please stay and I will instantly log off.
I do not know about VRWC13, but...
May 24, 2007 - 20:33 ET by LionKingMy mind is numb from beating it against a wall. Well, maybe I should have been beating it against a wall. It would have accomplished more that trying to carry on an intellectual discourse with tumbler.
I am gone for tonight. To all, have a blessed Memorial Day and weekend as I am about to enjoy my 4-day weekend.
Next case
May 24, 2007 - 20:37 ET by tumblerCiao, Lion King. Glad you're taking a break from your stint as a theologian.
He means his relief Debra mis
May 24, 2007 - 20:37 ET by bigtimerHe means his relief Debra misterbill.
My post here also "disap
May 25, 2007 - 10:25 ET by vrwc13My post here also "disappeared?"
Debra is one of many, and since my initial posts here and above are gone, I will re-think how I finish here and contemplate why they are missing.
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me they will persecute you... for they do not know the One who sent Me." John 15:19-21
My first response post here h
May 25, 2007 - 10:21 ET by vrwc13My first response post here has "disapeared"? Hope it was not censored.
I really did have to go home for dinner. I knew my fellow believers would probably pick up where I left off.
face piles of trials with smiles
you grasp for too much
May 24, 2007 - 20:11 ET by tumblerA "current movement"-? No, it's a dead movement. It stalled, because the Church can never teach any spurious thing whether about Mary, the doctrines of the apostles, or morality. If you persist in pushing this false premise, don't try it on me. I'm not one of your Sunday school students, falling for Sola fide, Sola scriptura and all your revival tent megillah.
Mary is not our co-redemptrix, nor is she adored and worshipped by faithful Catholics (another bald-faced lie spread by anti-catholic liars.) The Church never taught us so, and won't be doing anything remotely like that.
NEXT CASE.
Hail Mary, tumbler
May 24, 2007 - 20:14 ET by LionKingEver heard of Hail Mary? [football does not count]
I like that verse
May 24, 2007 - 20:30 ET by tumblerYeah; it's in Luke, chapter ONE:
"Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you."
Spoken by the angel Gabriel as he addressed the mother of God-to-be, a holy virgin. Love that meeting, between Mary and God's holy angel. God kept all His promises and Mary did too ! She was without sin. We know it, since God reveals it.
When the angel says "Hai
May 24, 2007 - 21:25 ET by tracheostomyWhen the angel says "Hail, full of grace," does that mean that Mary is full of grace received from God, or that the angel has now declared her a dispenser of grace that she now generates of her own volition?
Related to that is the RC doctrine of condign merit. You still haven't answered my question at all about whether you agree with that doctrine or not.
You tell us to ask you directly about your faith. But when I do, you hedge on it. There are at least four questions collected from various threads that you have thus far avoided me on (yes, I'm keeping a list).
I'll add another. Do you truly believe 1 Timothy 2:5?
"Mediator" = "Intercessor"
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I don't know of any Scripture
May 24, 2007 - 22:35 ET byI don't know of any Scripture 'hailing' Mary, Tumbler.
Luke 1 :28
May 24, 2007 - 22:51 ET by tumblerGabriel, representing God Almighty, says to Mary: "HAIL, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."
You must be blind, not to recognize this wonderful phrase from the mouth of an archangel to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
vrwc13 says:Sad Tumbler, yo
May 24, 2007 - 23:54 ET by motherbeltvrwc13 says:
Sad Tumbler, you believe in your church, but yet you do not know what your your church believes.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-19633321.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1834733/posts
Sorry to come in on this late, guys, but I have to comment on the stories at these two links....one says there are a bunch of priests and cardinals who want to name Mary co-Redeemer, and the other says Pope John Paul II wanted to use his "infallibility" to do that.The most telling thing is that neither one says it actually happened.Therefore, although there may be some or many in the Catholic Church who want it to transpire, the fact is that the Church does NOT teach that Mary is co-Redeemer.
There has been a history of t
May 25, 2007 - 09:44 ET by vrwc13There has been a history of this throughout the Catholic church history. One only needs to "google" to find, as I posted early, many Popes, and eras of this belief. The current programs are not new news.
face piles of trials with smiles
I am late into this and instantly out--
May 25, 2007 - 10:24 ET by misterbillI am late into this and instantly out-- May is the month of Mary, mother of Jesus, so I simply list one of the hymns I sang as a young man aloud and as a grown man, quietly inside my mind:
Bring flowers of the fairest,Bring flowers of the rarest,
From garden and woodland
And hillside and dale;
Our full hearts are swelling,
Our Glad voices telling
The praise of the loveliest flower of the vale.O Mary, we crown thee with blossoms today,
Queen of the Angels and Queen of the May,
O Mary, we crown thee with blossoms today,
Queen of the Angels and Queen of the May,Our voices ascending,
In harmony blending,
Oh, thus may our hearts turn
Dear Mother, to thee;
Oh, thus shall we prove thee
How truly we love thee,
How dark without Mary
Life's journey would be.
Y'all can spend the rest of your lives arguing with Tumbler and Debra if you choose, it's a free society we live in. In the end none of you will change anyone else's mind. You will manage to anger some of those who you dispute with. Faith is what faith is. I am secure in mine and have no need to argue it with anyone else. I have reduced my "face" time at this site. It has gone far astray from the intentions of its founders.
excellent posting, misterbill
May 25, 2007 - 11:06 ET by tumblerI must commend you for showing this high level of reverence to the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, and recalling May, month devoted to her by the Church's faithful.
As for your reluctance to participate, I also understand. Not all are granted by Our Lord the special charism of speaking out orally for the Holy Faith (Santa Fe, a little Spanish lingo there.) Yet you'll do so perfectly well interiorly; with a prayer offered up for the conversion of sinners.
I also intended if possible, to lay off this argument at least for now. I don't like to pour it on non-stop. The reason I did it yesterday was to get some obstinate friends up to snuff on these hard questions about Catholic devotion to Jesus' holy mother. Many carry around some really curious misconceptions about it. As for the thread having been diverted a ways; so what ? Give a good soul the choice between Rosie O'Donnell and the Holy Virgin, and Rosie is quickly dismissed from our thoughts. --Seems a no-brainer to me.
Mary had other children after
May 25, 2007 - 16:41 ET byMary had other children after Jesus. She did not stay a virgin.
Mary had only one, JESUS
May 25, 2007 - 16:51 ET by tumblerYou know you can't name any other son of Mary in scripture except Jesus.
Maybe just the holy apostle John, after Jesus said to him, "Son, behold thy mother." Mary is a Virgin even today. The Holy Spirit is witness, Debra.
Tumbler,Mary was married. Fac
May 26, 2007 - 03:30 ET byTumbler,
Mary was married. She had other children, like James. And you cannot show me a place in Scripture saying she remained a virgin. There is, however, Scripture that says that Josheph did not have sex with her till after Jesus was born.
Mt 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Face it, Tumbler. The woman 'got it on.' You are 68 years old, Tumbler. It is time to grow up and not get grossed out at the thought of sex. Sex is a beautiful thing between a husband and wife and it is Biblical for a woman to give herself to her husband. Had Mary not, she would have been sinning.
Debra...
:o)
debra, now you did it
May 26, 2007 - 08:46 ET by LionKingSo that's how to get tumbler to give up. Talk about sex!!! Or even better, Saint Mary, the Madonna, having SEX!!!
I guess tumbler forgot about his brother James.
poor idiots abound here
May 26, 2007 - 17:32 ET by tumblerIdiots who think they're good Christians abound now, in this thread. James is a relative, a cousin of Jesus as was Jude Thaddeus. But it defeats and escapes you, brethren is the only word in Aramaic for kin, -- relatives. To say His "brother," or brethren is just saying a kinship exists between them.
Paul in his epsitles and in acts says Titus is his brother. But he didn't mean sibling. Neither was James a sibling of Jesus. Nowhere in the scripture does it say James, the brother of Jesus and son of Mary. (Mary remained a virgin, immaculate--) But you idiots will invent it as scriptural, for the sole reason you must discredit the Catholic Church. What else can a useless idiot (when it comes to scriptural interpretation) do--? Invent.
The worst of the lot is Debra; who though her ideas are idiotic, -- vanity leads her to think she can teach from the Bible. Her biblical wisdom is actually a fall into the abyss. Poor blind one. She preaches damnation.
1"Do not judge, or you t
May 26, 2007 - 17:57 ET by vrwc131"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7
Right out of Scripture Tumby
Because you do not answer directly the questions asked but spew out more condemnation, I will take the advice of Matthew 7:6...adious amigos
face piles of trials with smiles
adios, hurry back
May 26, 2007 - 18:27 ET by tumblerI judge the actions and ideas of sinners, and not the sinners. They will be judged on the last day, as I will be. I didn't "spew condemnation," I only lament the presence of idiots here; acting like scriptural scholars. IT IS LAMENTABLE !
If we consider what I'm saying, it has only one judgment in it: the lack of wisdom apparent in some who DO in fact try to judge. --Debra, for instance; has passed final judgment on others. She concludes they aren't in the grace of God. Only she is. --Worse yet, she presumes to preach how they can be saved; despite not knowing beans about it.
And we just saw a sinner here impugn the mother of Our Holy Redeemer by the lowest standards of a hedonist and sinner-- the sexual urge. --Christ, who is infinitely HOLY, has to tolerate a sinner saying His own MOTHER was no better than a second-hand bed-mate to another sinner after having given birth to the Son of God. It boggles the mind how much darkness is in this world. If Tumbler is judging, why haven't I stated they will go to hell for this ?
Because only Jesus Christ can sit in judgment, on the Last Day. He will separate the sheep and the goats. I'll pray for the conversion of sinners. Not because I'm NOT a sinner. But because we ALL must repent or be damned. Especially unbelievers who mislead Christ's flock.
misterbill,Actually, there ar
May 25, 2007 - 16:38 ET bymisterbill,
Actually, there are many true believers who came out of the Catholic church and many who are still in it and will one day come out.
People are greatly helped by reading sites. Not everyone posts.
Debra...
Likewise there are fundamenta
May 25, 2007 - 17:28 ET by BDLikewise there are fundamentalist christians who go the other way as well, joining the Roman or Eastern orthodox church.
What is your point?
I highly doubt that a true be
May 26, 2007 - 03:38 ET byI highly doubt that a true believer would ever join the Catholic church after getting saved.
Debra...
Thank you misterb.
May 25, 2007 - 16:44 ET by bigtimerThank you misterb.
Jesus Changes Water to Wine
May 24, 2007 - 17:14 ET by vrwc13Jesus Changes Water to Wine
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a]
7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.
8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."
They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." John 2 Huh?thank you vrwc13
May 24, 2007 - 17:22 ET by tumblerYes; that's where by the intercession of Christ's holy mother, a wonderful favor was granted. It's fitting that this was shown us by JOHN, the apostle whom Jesus loved; who was later entrusted by Jesus with the care of His mother. (19 :26-27 John's gospel).
s..t...r...e...t...c...hface
May 24, 2007 - 17:25 ET by vrwc13s..t...r...e...t...c...h
face piles of trials with smiles
T . . . R . . . U . . . T. . . .H
May 24, 2007 - 17:40 ET by tumblerIf it means some other thing, what is the other thing ? You claim to study the Bible. Here you skip over something you find inconvenient to your --er wisdom.
BTW; all protestants insist that Jesus was speaking malarkey when He stated very plainly:
"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood; you shall not have life in you." (John 6 :54 and all that chapter.)
Why do youz all dance a two-step out of there, when you read it ? Is it because there is shown the truth known by all believing Catholics ? That the Holy Eucharist is the bread that has come down from heaven, for the spiritual life of His believers --? Subsequently clarified again by the words of Jesus at the Last Supper, and by Paul in 1 Cor 11 :23 --? You deny the real presence of Jesus in His Church, as our food and drink ? Even though His words are very explicit.
out of context
May 24, 2007 - 17:47 ET by LionKing"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood; you
shall not have life in you." (John 6 :54 and all that chapter.)
What does the next verse say? ... "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."
May 24, 2007 - 17:57 ET by botg
metaphor
May 26, 2007 - 03:40 ET bymetaphor
His discourse with the multit
May 24, 2007 - 17:49 ET by vrwc13His discourse with the multitude.
The flesh and blood of the Son of man, denote the Redeemer in the nature of man; Christ and him crucified, and the redemption wrought out by him, with all the precious benefits of redemption; pardon of sin, acceptance with God, the way to the throne of grace, the promises of the covenant, and eternal life. These are called the flesh and blood of Christ, because they are purchased by the breaking his body, and the shedding of his blood. Also, because they are meat and drink to our
souls. Eating this flesh and drinking this blood mean believing in Christ. We partake of Christ and his benefits by faith. The soul that rightly knows its state and wants, finds whatever can calm the conscience, and promote true holiness, in the redeemer, God manifest in the flesh. Meditating upon the cross of Christ gives life to our repentance, love, and gratitude. We live by him, as our bodies live by our food. We live by him, as the members by the head, the branches by the root: because he
lives we shall live also. (Jn 6:60-65)
face piles of trials with smiles
If this is to be taken litera
May 24, 2007 - 17:53 ET by vrwc13If this is to be taken literally, then why does the wine and wafer not turn to real flesh and blood when you partake?
face piles of trials with smiles
tumbler was trying to provoke
May 24, 2007 - 17:57 ET by LionKingtumbleweed was trying to provoke by not inlcuding the full context. This is a common practice among cultists. (relax tumbler, I am not calling you a cultist)
it is literally so
May 24, 2007 - 18:03 ET by tumblerWe know; because every chance Jesus got, He stressed to His followers the urgent matter of complete, unwavering faith in Him. He knew that when they would at length be confronted with this REVEALED TRUTH,
Many would find it too hard to take. (People just like you.) FAITH is the requisite condition for believing something that we don't understand.
The wafer, as you refer to it, is Jesus' living, aware and real Body; not bread. It is before us under the APPEARANCE of bread. Same with His Blood; it exists mysteriously under the same appearance as before consecration. but it's no longer wine. It shares the same properties, but is changed into His blood, which was shed for us on the cross. In case you still rebel against this truth, read the words of Paul in 1 Cor 11-- passages that challenge you to BELIEVE. If you do not believe the words of Jesus Christ, reading them in the Bible you treasure so much;
DON"T CALL YOURSELF A BELIEVER.
.
I am a believer because I bel
May 24, 2007 - 18:08 ET by vrwc13I am a believer because I believe in Him, you, it appears, believe in your church.
face piles of trials with smiles
being judged by TUMBLER
May 24, 2007 - 18:19 ET by LionKingHow does it feel to be judged by tumbler? He has called you an unbeliever and I have been called a liar (twice) by him.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matt: 7:1
Oh NO! NOT THAT. Judged by Tu
May 24, 2007 - 18:22 ET by ThisnThatOh NO! NOT THAT. Judged by Tumbler??? Is there a written record? Is there time to say your last good-byes? Can you have a last meal? You don't know what it's like --- to be judged by Tumbler.
I'm not judging
May 24, 2007 - 18:23 ET by tumblerI haven't judged. I hope for everyone's salvation. You need help, is all. BTW; when we tell lies, that means we're liars. You tell big ones. About the mother of God, in fact. That's HEAVY . . .
I haven't judged. You need
May 24, 2007 - 18:26 ET by botgI haven't judged. You need help, is allI
you contradict yourself
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Excellent, BOTG!
May 24, 2007 - 18:27 ET by ThisnThatExcellent, BOTG!
tumbler ... you just lied
May 24, 2007 - 18:27 ET by LionKingMary is not the mother of God. She is the earthly virgin mother of Jesus.
btw, when have I lied? I provided a link to substantiate my claim. You never countered the claim, you merely dodged the issue and called me a liar...for the third time.
mary has to be the mother of God
May 24, 2007 - 18:35 ET by tumblerYou are at the most superficial level of believing any revealed truth. GOD reveals those things, not men, Lion.
Mary is absolutely the mother of God.
If you deny she is, you deny Jesus is God. A mother of a Person is his mother. the Person known as Jesus is True God and True Man; natures that are in ONE person. He's unique in this respect.
Mary did not just bear a man. She bore the Man who is God. The Son of God. These are some of the ineffable, divine truths that you've been deprived of knowing, because you are NOT in Christ's Holy Church. You are under the influence of mere mortal men, who aren't even authorized to be teaching theology. But maybe you'll still be saved. SOMEHOW.
TJesus, the ONLY begotten, be
May 24, 2007 - 18:40 ET by botgT
Jesus, the ONLY begotten, begotten NOT made has always been and always will be. Mary like us was born and has a begining. Jesus was before Mary, how then can she be His mother?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
botg digs himself a hole
May 24, 2007 - 19:40 ET by tumbler"Jesus was before Mary, how then can she be His mother?"
Now he's (is it he or she ?) he's denying Mary is mother of Jesus, the Son of God. Against everything spoken in the scriptures.
Hello ?