Almost 28 years ago I toyed with my first professional writing adventure. My college roommate Joe Duggan had approached me with the proposition that we freelance a profile piece on the man who was grabbing national headlines with his political activism, so we drove down to Lynchburg Virginia, attended a service at the Thomas Road Baptist Church, and then settled in for an hour-long interview with its founder. Yesterday I returned to that church, this time with my son David, and joined by the 6,000 packed inside the building, and thousands more seated at Liberty University’s Vines Center and Williams stadium, we paid our final respects at Jerry Falwell’s funeral service.
His story is one of extraordinary professional accomplishments: The Thomas Road Baptist Church, with 24,000 members; Liberty University, with 27,000 students and 125,000 graduates; the Old Time Gospel Hour radio and television programs – on and on it goes, a ministerial enterprise that operates on a $200 million annual budget. Oh, and along the way he also founded the Moral Majority, the political juggernaut critically instrumental in the election of Ronald Reagan.
That was the professional Falwell. Over years I came to know Jerry Falwell on a personal basis, not nearly as well as others, but well enough to call him a friend and know – and say unequivocally -- that he was one of the most gracious, kindly, modest men in the public arena, deeply in love with Jesus Christ, his country and his fellow man.
Which brings sadness. What, then, evokes the sheer venom aimed at him by so many who couldn’t wait, and wouldn’t allow his family and followers a moment of privacy before unloading broadsides of hate-filled vitriol?
It wasn’t hard to disagree with Jerry Falwell. As a Catholic I could easily disagree with many of his theological positions. I didn’t always agree with him on politics, either. But these disagreements never reached the point of enmity because I could applaud him for so much more. Yet Falwell had many real enemies, men and women who refused to applaud him for anything during his lifetime, instead reserving their ovations for the news of his death.
Falwell, like any great leader, was controversial. True leadership by its very definition always generates controversy. Falwell was controversial because he dared re-introduce morality into the public square, with rhetorical passion.
And sometimes with excessive rhetorical passion. Every obituary in the mainstream press has regurgitated Falwell’s ill-timed statement after 9/11 for which he was condemned by liberals and conservatives alike, and for which he would later apologize. That is part of the historical record, and deserved inclusion. But for his enemies it deserved to be far more than that. It needed to be the centerpiece of his obituary, that which by its essence would define Falwell as an extremist, at the virtual exclusion of his manifold achievements.
NRO’s Kathryn Lopez provides insight. A reporter was in one of the congressional galleries when word of Falwell’s death arrived. He emailed her this: "The reaction from the reporters? Grins and chuckles mostly. One grizzled journalist said, ‘I hope they (CNN) remember all the horrible things he said.’ Another reporter simply said, ‘It is a good day.’"
Those sentiments were then made public by others. With the headline "Sigh of Relief over Falwell’s Death," Chicago Sun-Times columnist Cathleen Falsani wrote, "In fact, my very first thought upon hearing of the Rev. Falwell’s passing was: Good… ‘good’ as in ‘Ding-dong, the witch is dead.’"
Vanity Fair’s professional atheist Christopher Hitchens to CNN’s Anderson Cooper the night Falwell died: "I think it’s a pity there isn’t a hell for him to go to… The empty life of this ugly little charlatan… Such a little toad… This horrible person… I’m glad to see he skipped the rapture, just found on the floor of his office… He was a bully and a fraud."
Amanda Marcotte, the former official blogger for the Edwards for President campaign: "The gates of Hell swing open and Satan welcomes his beloved son."
Bill Maher on HBO: "And now, New Rule: Death Isn’t Always Sad… Millions asked why, why God, why didn’t you take Pat Robertson with him?... I know you’re not supposed to speak ill of the dead, but I think we can make an exception..."
A formal posting on the Wonkette blog site: "Dept. of Just Rewards, God Angrily Awaiting Jerry Falwell’s Arrival…At a time like this, people deserve sympathy and good wishes… except Falwell, who is an evil sonofabitch." From another liberal blogger: "The Devil’s new concubine… Burn in Hell you demented ---hole."
On and on it goes, sadly. In the end God will sort things out, and at the moment of His choosing will pass judgment on us all. As one eulogist reminded his audience yesterday, "God doesn’t promise us tomorrow, but He does promise eternity." Eternity must be earned, however. At the end of the day Jerry Falwell, like Pope John Paul II, was controversial to so many simply because he loved God unconditionally. That alone will earn him that eternity, in Paradise.















Comments Policy
Thanks very much, Mr. Bozell!
May 23, 2007 - 12:19 ET by TruthMongerThanks very much, Mr. Bozell! These used to be mainstream views...
At the end of the day Jerry F
May 23, 2007 - 12:24 ET by bigtimerAt the end of the day Jerry Falwell was controversial to so many simply because he loved God unconditionally. That alone will earn him that eternity, in Paradise.
AMEN
Btw....Congressman Goodlatte (and others) made a great speech for his love and regard of Falwell on the House floor last night...he had wanted to attend but because of House business he couldn't get away to the service as he wanted to.
I posted on the day he died and I repeat--
May 23, 2007 - 12:24 ET by misterbillI posted on the day he died and I repeat--while I did not agree with some of Reverend Falwell's statements and efforts, I believed he did everything to accomplish good on this earth. Those who saw evil in him, need to look inside themselves.
Great piece Brent!
Those who saw evil in him,
May 23, 2007 - 12:33 ET by bigtimerThose who saw evil in him, need to look inside themselves.
misterbill...I couldn't of said it better myself.
Hey BT, actually - they proba
May 23, 2007 - 12:35 ET by TruthMongerHey BT, actually - they probably already are - and that's the evil they're really talking about...
BT- good afternoon--
May 23, 2007 - 12:37 ET by misterbillBT- good afternoon. I hope when I pass that the good that I have done lives after me and I am forgiven for the bad. In any case, I hope my family is allowed to mourn in peace. This man had family who loved him.
I prayed for them as well as for the Reverend's soul.
deeply in love with Jesus C
May 23, 2007 - 12:38 ET by balboadeeply in love with Jesus Christ, his country and his fellow man.
As long as they weren't gay, weren't Pro-Choice...
No one loves gays more than f
May 23, 2007 - 12:41 ET by TruthMongerNo one loves gays, etc more than folks like me and Falwell...
Leave it to you boa to add so
May 23, 2007 - 12:42 ET by bigtimerLeave it to you boa to add something as asinine as that.
Person wants to drive home dr
May 23, 2007 - 12:47 ET by TruthMongerPerson wants to drive home drunk.
I take keys away.
He/she hates me.
I love him/her.
Person wants to do drugs.
I urge them to get treatment.
He/she hates me.
I love him/her.
Person wants to be gay.
I refuse to help facilitate this.
He/she hates me.
I love him/her.
etc, etc...
Exactly TM...I didn't even re
May 23, 2007 - 12:53 ET by bigtimerExactly TM...I didn't even realize what all Rev. Falwell had done for a lot of people up... until the day of his death in fact... of all walks of life until after his death.
Too bad there are such miserable creatures who bad mouth him that do not either...and those that do are just doing the devils work as far as I am concerned.
bal what is going on with you---
May 23, 2007 - 12:51 ET by misterbillbal what is going on with you?---most of the time you have been a fair, resonable debater. The past two weeks , you have been acting like an attack dog. If I knew you in person and something happened and you left this earth, I would offer my regrets to your family, pray for them and your soul and move on. I am not a hypocrite--some time later I may reference something you entered with scorn, but I would not post malicious words shortly after your death while your family was mourning.
misterb...IMHO boa just knows
May 23, 2007 - 12:56 ET by bigtimermisterb...
IMHO boa just knows tumbster is gone and he is vying for attention again that he lost when tumbles was taking it away.
It has been very noticeable.
Just throwing that out there.....
BT _ I am not trying to jump on bal--
May 23, 2007 - 12:59 ET by misterbillBT _ I am not trying to jump on bal--but what you say is very logical. Bal, please be the nice guy you have been since I joined almost a year ago.
First, I didn't know that t
May 23, 2007 - 13:02 ET by balboaFirst, I didn't know that tumbler had gone anywhere. Second, as I said, I'll stop with the Falwell stuff. He just bothers me.
He is supposed to "bothe
May 24, 2007 - 08:47 ET by vrwc13He is supposed to "bother" you...
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me they will persecute you... for they do not know the One who sent Me." John 15:19-21
Don't always agree with how he (Farwell) said things, but I agree with where he comes from.
face piles of trials with smiles
Don't always agree with how
May 24, 2007 - 09:33 ET by balboaDon't always agree with how he (Farwell) said things, but I agree with where he comes from.
Yeah I don't.
bal--thanks--
May 24, 2007 - 09:40 ET by misterbillbal--thanks--
I'm not trying to be malici
May 23, 2007 - 13:00 ET by balboaI'm not trying to be malicious or anything. I just have a hard time reading all the rave reviews for the guy. I'll stop.
Sorry, gang, but I'm with Bal
May 23, 2007 - 13:07 ET by Roger the ShrubberSorry, gang, but I'm with Bal here. Falwell was not a very nice person, and not my idea of a "good Christian". To me, he was just another televangelist bilking granny of her life savings. Let the flaming begin, but please, do not waste your tmie and effort trying to convince me otherwise. Let us just agree to disagree.
Shrub---Reverend Falwell
May 23, 2007 - 13:13 ET by misterbillShrub---Reverend Falwell-- I agree to disagree. I have posted that I was not in sync with the Reverend. I have some beliefs as to why he said and as he did.
My point, and perhaps it's my dotage catching up with me, is that his family needs time to deal with his death and to mourn without reading and hearing that Jerry is being vilified. That is my issue!
Good point. At least wait unt
May 24, 2007 - 07:47 ET by Roger the ShrubberGood point. At least wait until he was buried before "unleashing the hounds".
Like Sarc posted earlier, some nut brought pipe bombs to the funeral, in case some anti-Falwell protesters got a little "frisky". I think some of the idiots doing cartwheels and verbally-crucifying Falwell are ultimately to blame...
Bal, If you see your child
May 23, 2007 - 13:31 ET by Darth DutchBal,
If you see your child running out to the street in the middle of traffic, you would do something to stop them, right? Or would your "love" for them allow them to do whatever they want, even if it could kill them? The same could be said about Falwell; he called people out on things he saw that were immoral and/or destructive, but it doesn't mean he didn't "love" them.
And, by the way, the same could be said of a Pro-Choice person - wow, they really love women because they let them do what they want with thier own bodies...unless of course it is an unborn woman who then can have their brains suctioned out even while they are in the process of being born. The Pro-Choice person isn't really pro-choice when it comes to the fetus.
Dutch
The Rev. Jerry Falwell was
May 23, 2007 - 12:52 ET by Dave RThe Rev. Jerry Falwell was despised by the God-haters of this world for the very same reason that much of the world has hated the Jews for the last six thousand years: The Jewish people brought God into this world, thereby exposing the immorality and folly of all mankind. For this simple act, much of the world has never, and will never, forgive the Jews.
A very outspoken man like the Rev. Falwell, who had no qualms whatsoever about reminding the world that God was out there, came along and dealt only in absolutes, which has always made the God-haters highly uncomfortable. Perhaps on some level or other, he caused them to look deep inside themselves. Many obviously did not like what they saw.
IMHO, that is what really drove, and still drives, their rabid hatred of the man.
Rest in peace, Jerry Falwell.
They may have really hated hi
May 23, 2007 - 14:24 ET by TruthMongerThey may have really hated him but he still wasn't worthy of a good old-fashioned cross-nailing, now was he...?
"...earn him that eterni
May 23, 2007 - 13:23 ET by mattm"...earn him that eternity in Paradise..." Good article, Brent, but you got this part wrong. It's true, Paradise must be earned, but nobody can earn it, nobody but Christ, that is - and he did earn it for us.
"For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of youselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8,9
Bozell is a Catholic and as t
May 24, 2007 - 00:11 ET by ncstevemBozell is a Catholic and as the Catholic Church teaches and has always taught, there's nothing we can do to earn heaven but there's plenty we can do to deserve hell. So yes, we are judged by our 'works'.
Luther's Sola Fide (otherwise known as, once saved always saved) is a crock.
I believe in grace, that it
May 24, 2007 - 01:28 ET by Conservative VoiceI believe in grace, that it is by grace we are all saved...however, I like you believe we need to show our devotion to God by keeping his commandments, repenting when we don't, and endure to the end.
Jerry and I didn't always see eye to eye, but he feared God, and tried to do what he felt God wanted, what more can we ask from a person? As far as whatever crimes he committed, I will leave it to God to judge.
Sola Fide a crock? This is
May 24, 2007 - 07:52 ET by vrwc13Sola Fide a crock? This is a major divide between those who profess Jesus Christ is Lord!
"The doctrine of sola fide or "faith alone" asserts that it solely is on the basis of God's grace through the believer's faith alone that believers are forgiven their transgressions of the Law of God. The opposite position, that believers are forgiven solely on the basis of any good works is called Legalism. Catholicism, Eastern Christianity and Mormonism hold that a combination of faith and good works are required for salvation." Wikipedia
"For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of youselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8,9
Now let the boasting begin...
face piles of trials with smiles
dear vrwc13
May 24, 2007 - 12:03 ET by tumblerSorry, Babe.
Sola Fide is false doctrine, if not a crock. It's totally an invention of men, not scriptural. Nothing is written to prove it, nor Sola Scriptura either. How so-called Bible Christians can sustain their faith on such flimsy grounds is a mystery.
Paul spoke to this in Galatio
May 24, 2007 - 12:12 ET by bassndudePaul spoke to this in Galations. It is not through laws or works that man is saved, but by Jesus Christ. The Jews said the gentiles had to do as they did and follow the Jewish law. Paul said no. That that was perverting the message of Jesus Christ. It is through him alone that we are saved. Not by works or any other such thing. Were it not, who could be saved? None could, not even one. Even Abraham was saved by faith, not works, before the law was handed down from Moses.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Tumbler, your problem is you
May 24, 2007 - 12:34 ET by vrwc13Tumbler, your problem is you are too much a follower of your "faith" and not of written scripture and its author.
Btw: are you part of the 2 to 4 % who have actually read the Bible or do your convictions come from what you have been told?
face piles of trials with smiles
dear vrwc13
May 24, 2007 - 13:18 ET by tumblerSola fide is not scriptural, nor is it Christ's teaching. It's an invention of men.
Paul says "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling." Philippians 2 :12. In 1 James 2 :14, :17 and :26, we read: "What will it profit, brethren; if a man says he has faith but does not have works ? Can the faith save him ? . . . So faith too, unless it has works is dead . . . For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith also without works is dead." This is the Word of God. Nothing about Sola Fide.
Christ alone. Good call Mat
May 24, 2007 - 07:43 ET by vrwc13Christ alone. Good call Mattm...
Did anyone see that a nutca
May 24, 2007 - 04:48 ET by sarcasmoDid anyone see that a nutcase of some sort brought bombs to his funeral? I'm not much of a Falwell fan, but that's just tacky, as well as criminal.
JMR
So, how much time are you loo
May 24, 2007 - 07:48 ET by Sergeant ROCKSo, how much time are you looking at?
I once again have no idea w
May 24, 2007 - 07:55 ET by sarcasmoI once again have no idea what you mean by this... Is this no-reading-comprehension week on NB or something??
JMR
I think he was implying you S
May 24, 2007 - 08:02 ET by vrwc13I think he was implying you Sarc brought the bomb...tongue in cheek per se.
face piles of trials with smile
Wow, how incredibly hilario
May 24, 2007 - 08:05 ET by sarcasmoWow, how incredibly hilarious. I think the left may be correct about some of the right's attempts at "humor," if you're right and it's not "0.0 reading comprehension" week.
JMR
Too bad that you're so dumb y
May 24, 2007 - 08:07 ET by Sergeant ROCKToo bad that you're so dumb you had to have it explained to you. Duuuuhhh!
Sarge, I may not always agree
May 24, 2007 - 08:10 ET by vrwc13Sarge, I may not always agree with Sarc, but no point in getting nasty. That's the stull trolls are made of.
face piles of trials with smiles
Talking about one's 'reading
May 24, 2007 - 08:13 ET by Sergeant ROCKTalking about one's 'reading comphrension' is not? Nice double-standard there tough guy,
If you think the right disp
May 24, 2007 - 08:15 ET by sarcasmoIf you think the right displayed actual reading comprehension in responses to me on the gay thread yesterday, you're definitely winning the unintentional humor award for the day. Obviously, something I said upset you. Good.
JMR
Uh oh! The militant homosexua
May 24, 2007 - 08:18 ET by Sergeant ROCKUh oh! The militant homosexual has returned!
Hilarious lack of reading c
May 24, 2007 - 08:19 ET by sarcasmoHilarious lack of reading comprehension now proved.
JMR
Come on brownie queen.. is th
May 24, 2007 - 08:21 ET by Sergeant ROCKCome on brownie queen.. is that all you've got? *snicker*
What do you want, girlfrien
May 24, 2007 - 08:26 ET by sarcasmoWhat do you want, girlfriend??
JMR
Sarc, normally enjoy your pos
May 24, 2007 - 08:37 ET by vrwc13Sarc, normally enjoy your posts, even though we do not always agree. But why do you bother with this banter/blather?
face piles of trials with smiles
You're right. It dignifies
May 24, 2007 - 08:42 ET by sarcasmoYou're right. It dignifies what should not be dignified.
JMR
Well, you know, I must be d
May 24, 2007 - 08:14 ET by sarcasmoWell, you know, I must be dumb, because it's not possible the "joke" was so lame it needed explanation. After all, we're obviously in the presence of a comedy professional (only it's apparently always the unintentional variety...)
JMR
*yawn* Dumb trolls are a dime
May 24, 2007 - 08:16 ET by Sergeant ROCK*yawn* Dumb trolls are a dime a dozen, don't get yourself down.
Why devalue your trolling??
May 24, 2007 - 08:18 ET by sarcasmoWhy devalue your trolling?? And have you posted anything remotely substantial today, or is it 100% crap like this?? I suspect the latter.
JMR
Getting the joke
May 24, 2007 - 08:17 ET by RJIf you did get the joke, sarky, it might be the first time...you're not exactly known for having a sense of humor.... ;^>
Says the self-appointed aut
May 24, 2007 - 08:18 ET by sarcasmoSays the self-appointed authority on humor...
JMR
Proving my point
May 24, 2007 - 08:21 ET by RJWhy...that's "hilarious!" Thanks for helping prove my point, sarky. ;^>
Happy to return the favor,
May 24, 2007 - 08:27 ET by sarcasmoHappy to return the favor, you've continually proved mine, after all...
JMR
Only in your own mind, sarky
May 24, 2007 - 08:32 ET by RJOnly in your own mind, sarky.
(We all know you believe you're a genius. You tell us so most every day.) ;^>
Cite?JMR
May 24, 2007 - 08:33 ET by sarcasmoCite?
JMR
Now, now, sarky
May 24, 2007 - 09:10 ET by RJNow, now, sarky. Try to keep your "hilarious" sense of humor under control. Of course, that was an exaggeration used to point out your general attitude. Even you wouldn't openly admit that you believe you're a genius....would you? ;^>
Some of Falwell's greatest hi
May 24, 2007 - 09:26 ET by Agnostic frontSome of Falwell's greatest hits:
Yeah, he was a real pleasant guy. My favorite is his 9-11 stance. Instead of blaming religion (which was the true cause of 9-11), he blames everyone else.
Didn't bother reading Brent's post, did you, AF?
May 24, 2007 - 09:35 ET by RJIn the words of the Church Lady, AF, "well, aren't you special?" Obviously, you found something on one of your leftist sites that you just had to share. But you didn't bother reading Brent's post, did you? He pointed out that he (and many of us) disagree with various things that Falwell said. He also pointed out that many of Falwell's detractors have said things more ugly than anything Falwell said.
If I searched, would I find your posts among them, AF?
If it's a comment about homos
May 24, 2007 - 11:42 ET by Roger the ShrubberIf it's a comment about homosexuality, you just know it's been penned by NB's resident "queen in the closet", Agnostic Douche!
El Shrubborino -- You mean
May 24, 2007 - 11:44 ET by Jack BauerEl Shrubborino -- You mean Agnostic Effrontery hasn't got your back?
Are "having" and &q
May 24, 2007 - 11:54 ET by Roger the ShrubberAre "having" and "coveting" two different things?
You know I love you, Rog, you
May 24, 2007 - 12:18 ET by Agnostic frontYou know I love you, Rog, you old queen.
Just remember who the caboose
May 24, 2007 - 12:50 ET by Roger the ShrubberJust remember who the caboose is in this relationship, ok?
I guess that would be me?
May 24, 2007 - 12:58 ET by Agnostic frontI guess that would be me?
I guess that would be me?
May 24, 2007 - 12:58 ET by Agnostic frontDouble. I guess that shows how much I really do care, Rog.
LOL -- coveting? Isn't th
May 24, 2007 - 13:21 ET by Jack BauerLOL -- coveting? Isn't that specifically mentioned as being verbotten in one of those judgmental Ten Commandments.
The generic "religion&qu
May 24, 2007 - 12:22 ET by kathleenirishThe generic "religion" was not the cause of 9/11. For someone who seems to think they are quite a bit more sophisticated than those of us who practice a way of faith, you like simple-minded platitudes. Bad people do bad things=religion is at fault. No religion=no bad things!
So, atheists like Mao and Stalin...
" 'Fred's Slacks' is a winner!!"
Religion allows people to act
May 24, 2007 - 12:28 ET by Agnostic frontReligion allows people to act with total faith and confidence that their actions are justified - justified by god. A higher justification cannot be found. All religion is at fault when these types of acts occur.
"All religion is at fa
May 24, 2007 - 12:30 ET by MightyMouth"All religion is at fault when these types of acts occur"
Generalize much??
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
"All religion is at faul
May 24, 2007 - 12:37 ET by RJ"All religion is at fault when these types of acts occur"
MM, you said to AgnosticFront: "generalize much?"
Let me add to him: "think much?"
Great definiton, AF: sounds l
May 24, 2007 - 12:37 ET by kathleenirishGreat definiton, AF: sounds like it applies more to the liberal lefties in this country than anyone else, though.
Agnostic
May 24, 2007 - 12:53 ET by cvgbuckeyeAgnostic: Congratulations! At last someone posted something on this subject that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE and SCRIPTURAL. Jerry Falwell was absolutely accurate in every one of those positions.
Jerry didn't write the Bible, he was only relating what it says. Thats why so many people are eager to discredit and destroy Christianity, The Holy Bible and God. It makes them uncomfortable.
Good luck, you'll have an eternity to try as long and hard as you like.
"ABSOLUTEL TRUE and SCRI
May 24, 2007 - 13:05 ET by Agnostic front"ABSOLUTEL TRUE and SCRIPTURAL" are not the same thing. Not even close. Bats are not birds, snakes don't eat dirt, and insects have six legs, not four. All of these are statements made in the bible.
Ag...Why are you such an angr
May 24, 2007 - 13:08 ET by Clear thinkerAg...
Why are you such an angry person?
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
clear -- I'm thinking it's
May 24, 2007 - 13:10 ET by Jack Bauerclear -- I'm thinking it's something to do with the change of life.
Or maybe a recent divorce?Hel
May 24, 2007 - 13:12 ET by Clear thinkerOr maybe a recent divorce?
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
Not angry at all. I have litt
May 24, 2007 - 13:12 ET by Agnostic frontNot angry at all. I have little patience for religion, that's all. If anyone can show me one shread of concrete evidence of the existence of god, I'll change my tune. More specifically, if anyone can show me why Christianity is the best religion, I'll believe. Until then, as much as I'd like to, I just can't believe in fairy tales.
Well, lucky for you, the Chri
May 24, 2007 - 13:15 ET by Clear thinkerWell, lucky for you, the Christian religion has endless patience for you.
Your anger come through loud and clear!
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
Sounds angry to me, AF
May 24, 2007 - 13:18 ET by RJ"all religion is at fault when these types of acts (9/11) occur"
Sounds angry to me, AF
Not angry, just putting the b
May 24, 2007 - 13:23 ET by Agnostic frontNot angry, just putting the blame where it belongs. If everyone were to use their reason and to base their actions and judgments on what is reasonable, instead what some old book tells them is right or wrong, we would not have most of the trouble we have. God doesn't make people behave morally, the cops do.
I got news for you, my God an
May 24, 2007 - 13:26 ET by Clear thinkerI got news for you, my God and my wife make me behave morally, not a cop. A cop keeps me from breaking mans laws.
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
I have to agree. I'll only be
May 25, 2007 - 08:27 ET by danboI have to agree. I'll only behave when the cops are around. Or I think are around. (As speeding.)
But this athiest doesn't steal. Not because of the police. For enough money the risk may be appealing. But I don't steal because stealing is wrong.
Believe in god or not. there's a lot of wisdom in the bible.
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Bologna
May 24, 2007 - 15:37 ET by Mr. Bishop"God doesn't make people behave morally, the cops do." This is garbage. Police have no say, whatsoever, over the morality of mankind. Lying is immoral, but you can lie to your brother, mother, sister, best friend, wife, kids, boss, etc. -- and the police can do nothing about it -- if it does not break the law. The police only have the authority to enforce laws, not enforce morality.
__________________________________________________________
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, then stem cell research might provide a cure.
Well, yes, Agnostic Front, your anger DOES show
May 24, 2007 - 16:34 ET by RJ"putting the blame where it belongs"
That's trite nonsense, Agnostic Front, and your anger is pouring out of your posts. Not only are you angry, but you're being illogical and are applying moral relativism in an attempt to justify that anger.
In the first place, it's illogical to place equal blame on all religions for today's world, national or even local troubles.
In the second place, I could go on at pretty great length on your premise that only if everyone used their reason and judgment things would be hunky-dory. Mankind has a hard time agreeing on anything. Do you really think that, in the absense of religion everyone would suddenly work and think in harmony? Only in your Socialistic dreams does that happen. Speaking of which, those countries that have banned religion don't fare any better do they?
In the third place, to claim that man cannot operate morally without the threat of being arrested speaks more about you than anyone else. Believe in a God or not, religion helps provide a social structure that it's adherents agree to live by, and it's accepted by free will. Those who don't like the rules can move on. You can't do that by relying on government for your moral rules. Try to tell your government you've decided that you aren't going to obey their rules, AF.
If you want to put the blame
May 25, 2007 - 08:18 ET by danboIf you want to put the blame where it belongs. You have to look at us athiest also. There was the French Revolution where the athiest went after the clerics. And the Russian revolution where us athiest went after just about everyone.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
let's give it a try
May 24, 2007 - 13:30 ET by tumblerAggie,
God is our Creator. He created man in His own image, and in time His only-begotten Son took flesh and became Man. We know this is true because He revealed it; it didn't take form out of any fairy tale or superstition.
We know it also because we LOVE; and love is something absolutely singular. You might say loosely, Love causes religion. Religion doesn't come from natural causes.
Christ says to his followers, "Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his friends." And; He went out and proved it; He laid down His own life. Afterwards, His Father in heaven raised Jesus up again. He was seen after His resurrection by upwards of 500 witnesses !
"We know this is true be
May 24, 2007 - 13:41 ET by Agnostic front"We know this is true because He revealed it;" Saying it does not make it so. Who revealed it? God? How? Prove it. Just saying the Bible is divinely inspired does not mean that is.
saying it's not so
May 24, 2007 - 14:07 ET by tumblerYou're saying it isn't so; that He hasn't revealed Himself. But would anybody see your "reason" for more than human folly ? If only you'd really reason:
The major universities of the world were founded by believers. Not by unbelievers. There's quite a lot of truth to the old teaching, "By their fruits you shall know them." More good has been accomplished by Christians in the world than by any agnostic society.
I also have proof He exists; but not the kind you'd admit. He answers my prayers. And, lastly: You may or may not have personally read the Holy Bible. I truly doubt it, because; when you read it's contents, the divine source makes itself VERY apparent. Men alone do not write such wisdom. Men could never have written the gospel narratives, without power from above, for instance. The words Jesus Christ spoke, too-- are above any other words ever written, in their holiness and power to move you.
Naturally, to have faith HE must give it to you. Nobody ever converts anyone. God converts.
Hop