The American left loves to chant "no blood for oil." But those same liberals would eagerly sacrifice American interests in the name of . . . a cheaper Caesar salad.Take this morning's report on CNN which came at about 7:35 am EDT. Entitled "Farm-Fresh Problems," the segment, narrated by CNN's Chris Lawrence, focused on the lack of illegal immigrant labor to harvest California's fruit and vegetable crops.
CNN REPORTER CHRIS LAWRENCE: California harvests about half the nation's fruits and vegetables and every summer, farmers need half-a-million workers to pick those crops. But the crackdown on illegal immigrants is keeping workers out of their fields, leaving unpicked fruit left to rot.
HENRY VEGA [California farmer]: They're definitely worried about being raided and deported.
View video here.
Lawrence did run a clip of an opponent of the immigration bill, Jack Martin of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, who said the proposed system would be gamed by illegals looking to stay in the country.
But then it was back to Vega saying "when you don't have the labor, it just breaks your heart." Lawrence concluded by describing a conversation he had with a farmer in which Lawrence asked why the farmers simply couldn't pay the workers more money.Radio talk show host Mark Levin made the point in his inimitable fashion on his show of May 21st.LAWRENCE: He said, 'we'd have to pass the costs on to the consumer.' And he says, honestly, he doesn't think people are going to pay more for a California strawberry, as opposed to one that's just as good and coming from Argentina. He said countries like that in South America can already ship their products a lot cheaper than he can right here in California. Critics say there shouldn't be jobs here in the United States that American workers aren't prepared to do.
MARK LEVIN: So we'll be importing fruits and vegetables rather than people . . . I'll pay more for lettuce or anything else, because let me tell you something, I'd rather pay more for lettuce than pay more in property taxes for school systems that are overwhelmed. I'd rather pay more for lettuce than pay premiums for health care insurance because hospitals are overwhelmed. I'd rather pay more for lettuce than put the final death blow into the Social Security and Medicare systems in this country. Yes, I'll pay more for lettuce.
Of course the sacrifices involved in our lax immigration policy go beyond the economic. They extend to our national security interests and the preservation of our political/cultural values. But what's all that compared to a cut-rate cucumber?
Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
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Comments Policy
You can't tell me that if the
May 23, 2007 - 08:54 ET by jdhawkYou can't tell me that if the multi-billion dollar industry that is California farming didn't have the labor it needed, it couldn't invent robotic combines to get the job done. The industry has been lazy, because it can exploit workers by paying them next to nothing with zero benefits. Or should I say, the benefits are on us. We, the tax payers, are paying for their medical, dental, and subsidized housing costs.
This subsidized labor on the backs of tax payers is a "good deal" with the devil.
JD, you must be a white supre
May 23, 2007 - 09:03 ET by Roger the ShrubberJD, you must be a white supremacitst hatemongering Nazi. Tumbler told us recently that his amigos with backs of the moist variety are in this country illegally only to better our lives and do not cost the taxpayers of this country one dime. Tumbler should know, too, because he, like most Liberals, has his elbow firmly on the pulse of the American people
Rog,LOL-Speaking of our (te
May 23, 2007 - 11:09 ET by Dave RRog,
LOL-Speaking of our (temporarily absent) resident hispanderer and "Goodwill Ambassador" for all things illegal immigration related, I bet he's about to have a stroke right about now waiting for his new account to be activated. It must be hell reading all the I.I. stuff that's been flying around in here over the last few days and being unable to get in on any of it.
'Bet he's under sedation at this very moment. :-)
_________________________________________________________
Hey Tumbler, if you're reading this (and I know you are) I hope you are having a nice, quiet little vacation out there.........See you soon!
We really miss ya around here! -Yeah, like we miss in-laws from hell.
You know, you are just encour
May 23, 2007 - 11:17 ET by dscottYou know, you are just encouraging his behavior?
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Tumbler doesn't have to be encouraged
May 23, 2007 - 11:23 ET by RJTumbler doesn't have to be "encouraged." He began calling me Nazi, SS, brownshirt, etc for saying that his attack the messenger style made him come across like a liberal. Prior to that, I had never posted to him.
dscott,I know, but I just had
May 23, 2007 - 12:00 ET by Dave Rdscott,
I know, but I just had to get one in.
I'll behave now. :-)
Awwwww, did El Guapo get hims
May 23, 2007 - 12:03 ET by Roger the ShrubberAwwwww, did El Guapo get himself perished?
I did not know that. Poor little fella.
Oh senor Dave--
May 23, 2007 - 13:32 ET by misterbillOh senor Dave--you betcha I am reading. I will be back in soon and I will attack you at the first chnce I get. My plan is to move 20 million Americans to Mexico. They must have SS or a retirement plan. Mexico will then have some good tax money. Then I will allow 4 million workers in. It's OK it's only letting in 10 years of the compromise number at once. They will send money back to Mexico too. Then one day, Mexicos GDP willexceed America's, Ole'.
And i will attack the old geezer too(senorbeel)--you racists are holding up your patriotic Senators compromise bill. Your businessmen are chomping at the bit to get all this cheap labor.
BTW would you like to buy a Z-Visa? We are already producing 1000 a day. I can get one for you wholesale.
zetas
May 23, 2007 - 16:50 ET by tejanodiablolos zetas are hole sale
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
yes, white supremacysts engage in hate speech
May 23, 2007 - 17:00 ET by tumbler"In this country illegally."
Of course; and a white supremacyst is usually engaged in virulent hate speech. Not in solving problems; but hating an ethnic minority.
What is it about this you fail to see ?
And when a wetback is deported who picks the lettuce ? Not the white supremacyst. --He is only here to squawk. Does he cost the taxpayers one thin dime ? No; he just costs the GOP a mid-term congressional election. And soon he'll cost the GOP a presidential election. But so what? Our health care industry will benefit. By then Hillary will be "restructuring it" for us. White supremacysts are helpful that way.
Ok, RJ & Dave, what did I
May 23, 2007 - 17:02 ET by dscottOk, RJ & Dave, what did I tell ya?
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
LOL!
May 23, 2007 - 17:07 ET by RJLOL!
ROFL....
May 23, 2007 - 17:09 ET by bigtimerROFL....
This is some kind of SICK j
May 23, 2007 - 17:10 ET by MightyMouthThis is some kind of SICK joke, right?? Please tell me it is BT!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Mighty....I went outside for
May 23, 2007 - 17:16 ET by bigtimerMighty....
I went outside for a few minutes to water some petunia's I just planted yesterday...get some wood in for the night, feed, water my animals, settle back in here...and POOF what do I see?
All I can say is OMG!
Why...me?
the return of tumbleweed
May 23, 2007 - 17:11 ET by LionKingtumbleweed has returned.
He is like the Rosie of Illegal Immigration -- extremely ill-informed and fact-free.
king hails rosie ?
May 23, 2007 - 17:18 ET by tumblerGee, king lion; why so stuck on Rosie ? is she flipping your tortillas at home ?
This is still a free country ? Yeah; and I say Roger's a white supremacyst. Note I spell it with "y"; since the whot supremcyst is a boil on the arse of our society, giving all white people a black eye; even those who are untainted by that sickness.
tumbleweed...ad hominem attacks
May 23, 2007 - 17:23 ET by LionKingI was just using Rosie as a simile towards you. No need to resort to ad hominem attacks.
I was just saying that you are as passionate about Illegal Immigration being ignored as Rosie is LARGE!!!
yes...passionate
May 23, 2007 - 17:36 ET by LionKingYes..you are passionate and wrong ... also like ROSIE.
This is still a free
May 23, 2007 - 20:40 ET by JDWThis is still a free country ?
No. Our rights are being defined by dems. The dems have run dry of slaves and are attempting to fill the well with Mexicanos. People such as you are unable to realize the fact and support the eventual demise of America.
More than 75% of the current field workers are US, what is the dem plan to employ the hundreds of thousands they want to import? Employment is 4.6%, where will the illegals work? Whose jobs will they compete with? How will it affect wages and benefits?
A mí te pareces nada más que un pedazo de mierda. ¿Estás aquí a eschuchar o a discutir?
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
the extent of your hatred
May 23, 2007 - 22:58 ET by tumblerAll of your post above draws on prejudice; the perceived notion that allowing people from the south ito our society is deleterious and shameful. This is the language of demagogues. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Coming on in Spanish with flagrant hate speech is no substitute for the truth.
Escucharte a ti seria inutil; no hace falta el embustero para hechar commentarios de imbecil. A la porra con tu estupidez, cretino. --Yo no escucho la babozada de los groceros.
JDW...You may have noticed al
May 23, 2007 - 23:05 ET by Clear thinkerJDW...
You may have noticed already, but trying to converse clearly and logically with Tumbler is a certified impossibility. He cares more for the Mexican heritage than he does our American heritage.
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
Clear,What is going on here?I
May 23, 2007 - 23:16 ET by BlondeClear,
What is going on here?
I've been gone a bit, and the illegal immigrant apologist got off probation, again?
Ayeeaaaah!
No more sane debate about illegal immigrants.
Care to place a bet about how many days it will take for him to call me a Nazi, yet again?
Blonde...Maybe we need to get
May 23, 2007 - 23:21 ET by Clear thinkerBlonde...
Maybe we need to get the Minute Man project to keep an eye on Tumbler. Everytime he shows his head here they have our permission to use a Tazer on him.
It may not cross Tumblers small mind, but you would make a terrible Nazi (thank God).
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
Thanks, Clear.I'm out.I'm goi
May 23, 2007 - 23:27 ET by BlondeThanks, Clear.
I'm out.
I'm going to have to seriously consider how such a disruptive trollish abusive poster as Tumbler has been reinstated on this board.
I've seen such major ugliness from him....against myself and alot of other posters here. And while I'm at it...ugliness by certain others here, on the religious front....bashing Mormons and Catholics, using the most vile name calling and lies.....
Guess I shall have to reconsider whether I want to particpate further. I'm not really too pleased with where this board has been going lately. Perhaps the rules of use need to be clarified. But I am sorely disappointed with the turn of events.
Catch you in a while, Clear.
Caio!Help a wounded soldier h
May 23, 2007 - 23:33 ET by Clear thinkerCiao!
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
very comforting indeed
May 23, 2007 - 23:35 ET by tumblerThis is such good news. Blonde is going elsewhere with her idiocy. No more shall we see her obnoxious bleating; her attitude of solemn superiority and cleverness.
In fact she was consistently boring and never contributed ZILCH to any discussion. Biondina's forte was to diminish others by expressing contempt. Her outcry against me was that I "called her a Nazi," and that was a lie; everybody knows it.
Goodbye, don't bust your hip going out the corral door, Moo-Blonde ! Slow down, hear ?
The Goodwill Ambassador
May 23, 2007 - 23:37 ET byThe Goodwill Ambassador
Tumbler, don't hide behind that dishonesty
May 24, 2007 - 09:51 ET by RJTumbler, don't try to hide behind that dishonesty.
You have repeatedly said Blonde and others are "the same as" Nazis, brownshirts, and so on. That's no different than calling them those names. The only difference is that you think it allows you to pretend you didn't.
Blonde,ROFLMAO!-It's all my f
May 24, 2007 - 07:58 ET by Dave RBlonde,
ROFLMAO!-It's all my fault, as I must have been the trigger on his reinstated account. (Spanking myself furiously)
After all, dscott did try to warn me, but my pride & arrogance got the best of me. :-)
Just returned to see what/i
May 23, 2007 - 23:23 ET by JDWJust returned to see what/if he had responded.
I addressed his concern about freedom yet he ignored my example and bi-itched about meaningless mung. He claimed the addition of the illegals 'would not cost taxpayers one dime'. I explained otherwise yet again he ignored the facts. His solemn dem defense of the mexicanos gave me incentive to take a chance and express my true feelings in Spanish, he's one of them.
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
JDWthere are issues in which
May 23, 2007 - 23:26 ET byJDW
there are issues in which you can have rational debate with Tums, this ain't it.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I wonder if he cares only abo
May 23, 2007 - 23:32 ET by Clear thinkerI wonder if he cares only about Mexicans or does his obsession include allowing everyone from South America, Central America, Russia, The Balkans, Communist China, Haiti, etc etc, be allowed to sneak into our country illegally?
What he cannot get through his thick skull is... we don't care if they are called Mexicans or Martians, if they sneak in illegally we want them shipped out. If they come here legally, we welocme them with open arms.
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
The dems do not care. He mo
May 23, 2007 - 23:38 ET by JDWThe dems do not care. He most likely has been brainwashed into supporting the cultures, how could he justify only Mejico?
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
His obsession with Mexico is
May 23, 2007 - 23:43 ET by Clear thinkerHis obsession with Mexico is more than just a little troubling. The rumor about him working for La Raza may have some validity.
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
if we concede to clear thinker
May 23, 2007 - 23:26 ET by tumblerListen to the clown who calls himself a "clear" thinker. He doesn't think at all.
Yet he expounds here on the problems of "conversing clearly and logically" with Tumbler; who on his worst day thinks rings around the clown.
He still insists I had a "Mexican heritage" even after I stated clearly that I have NO relatives, not ONE, in Mexico. I'm a Spanish-American, born in New Mexico. My ancestors settled the valley of the Rio Grande in the 1590s, before George Washington was born. I have titles to ancient Spanish land grants honored by the U. S. government under stipulation of clauses in the Gadsen Purchase of 1848. I could not in justice expect "clear" thinker to savvy such obscure things as these, since he is a half-wit at best.
If only half-wits didn't try to lecture grown-ups. I know at least one American half-wit. Can't think himself off the john. He just sits there farting and dozing; in a daze -- ! Ha ha! "Clear Thinker", INDEED !
You just got off of time-out,
May 23, 2007 - 23:29 ET by BlondeYou just got off of time-out, Tumbler.
Tone it down.
Blonde, BT etal _ I know you know this old one --but--
May 23, 2007 - 23:47 ET by misterbillBlonde, BT etal _ I know you know this old one --but--
A frog and a scorpion showed up at a river at the same time. The frog kept his distance. The scorpion said, "will you carry me across the river on your back?". The frog said "No, you will sting me and I will die." The scorpion said, "you know I cannot do that or I will drown". So the frog let the scorpion jump on his back. Halfway across the river the scorpion stung the frog. As th frog was dying, he looked up and said to the scorpion, "why did you do that, now we both will die." The scorpion replied ." I can't help it, I am a scorpion and that is what scorpions do."
The scorpion is back.
Amen!Help a wounded soldier h
May 23, 2007 - 23:53 ET by Clear thinkerAmen!
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
Well, I guess things are back
May 24, 2007 - 08:00 ET by Dave RWell, I guess things are back to normal around here.
Tumbler...Quit before you mak
May 23, 2007 - 23:39 ET by Clear thinkerTumbler...
Quit before you make a complete ass of yourself. Go back and read what I wrote. I did NOT say your heritage. I'm sorry if you have problems understanding very clear statements, maybe you need to think about therapy.
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
now they're ganging up
May 23, 2007 - 23:49 ET by tumblerHow come the faithful Mexican-bashers are so quick to gang up on me, c-t ? Must be because you were out-manuevered ? Can't fend off a reasoned argument ?
Instead of suggesting that others are asses, pick up your own dragged ass. Next time, lay off my "heritage." I am an AMERICAN. I resent when a blowhard like you insinuates that I came out of Mexico, just to try & earn points. It shows how dumb you are. I'm as good an American as anybody in this blogsite, and PROUD of it.
T-H-E-R-A-P-YHelp a wounded s
May 23, 2007 - 23:55 ET by Clear thinkerT-H-E-R-A-P-Y
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
As long as we are so Bi-lingu
May 24, 2007 - 10:33 ET by Ruths husband BenAs long as we are so Bi-lingual (not that there is anything wrong with that!), here is a phrase one can use in Mexico:
"¡Ninguna lechuga, para el motivo del dios! ¿No puedes verme eres un gringo?"
(for those who actually speak Spanish, if this isn't grammatically correct, blame the Google language tools, I personally barely speak English.)
How depressing
May 23, 2007 - 17:09 ET by Mr. BishopAmazing.... we were all having a great time with no Tumbler, then he comes back calling people white supremacyst(s) [sic] for commenting on Mexicans being here illegally. It's just odd I tell you; you comment on the legality of someone being in the country, and you become a white supremacyst [sic].
If homosexuality is genetic, then it must be a birth defect. If it is a birth defect, it might be able to be cured by stemcell research.
I had read he had been bounced in the past--
May 23, 2007 - 17:20 ET by misterbillI had read he had been bounced in the past--he was "tumbler" and then was aloowed back on as TUMBLER_2007. Perhaps his old login was re-enabled--it resd 48 weeks plus.
This I will say--if he goes onas he did in the past while we are fighting the "compromise", I will switch to the other places I read and another blog site.
misterb...Don't let the likes
May 23, 2007 - 17:28 ET by bigtimermisterb...
Don't let the likes of him run you off.
It is already obvious he hasn't changed one spot...so stay, he isn't worth running any of us out of here IMHO.
Just a suggestion....thought I would throw it out there friend.
If I can grin and bear it......LOL!
bt,Let's hope the powers that
May 24, 2007 - 08:14 ET by Dave Rbt,
Let's hope the powers that be here have him on triple secret probation this time around, cause if Blonde and misterbill leave, I'll be, .....well, let's just say, I'll be less than happy.
Next time you'll listen???
May 24, 2007 - 09:24 ET by dscottNext time you'll listen???
BTW -Tumbler and I get along most of the time, of course we disagree vigorously.
Let a thousand flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend. - Mao Zedung That was before he unleashed the Cultural Revolution to cut down all the weeds that had sprouted in his Garden of Eden. Muhuhahaha
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
I had read he had been bounced in the past--
May 23, 2007 - 17:21 ET by misterbillI had read he had been bounced in the past--he was "tumbler" and then was allowed back on as TUMBLER_2007. Perhaps his old login was re-enabled--it read 48 weeks plus.
This I will say--if he goes on as he did in the past while we are fighting the "compromise", I will just pop in once in a while . He brings down the class of the site.
ethnic minority?
May 23, 2007 - 17:25 ET by UndercoverConservativeWhat California are you living in?! Hispanics are *not* a minority by any means, and that's just counting US Census reports of documented workers and hispanic-descended Americans! Not even counting the estimated 4 million illegal, undocumented ones, and their dependents totally under the radar!
Also, just a reminder, Mexico is *NOT* an Ethnic group! it is a geopolitical entity as defined and recognized by the UN. It is on the same standards as Panama, Canada, England, America, Japan, and hundreds of others. Illegal immigration is from Mexico. The legislation is to stop illegal Mexican invasion. It does *NOTHING* to hispanic Americans.
But this debate isn't about truth. It's about maintaining a safety valve for Mexico. For its racist economy (Spanish descended-white-Mexicans run most of the government Socialized businesses, while indigenous descended-brown-Mexicans are the underclass) and it's disastrous social policies, it keeps things from boiling over into open revolt. It allows Mexico to tax millions in American dollars pouring in while avoiding the need to take care of it's poor. And like Castro did to Florida, Mexico now has a tasty outlet for it's hardest criminals...give them the choice of execution or leave the country to America.
Maybe Hollywood can do a new version of "Scarface" where it's a Mexican drug lord enforcer who gets dumped from Mexican prison and "encouraged" to set up shop here, where he works his way up from coyote to pimp to criminal overlord...
Indeed, the dirty little secr
May 23, 2007 - 23:55 ET by UnsaneIndeed, the dirty little secret is that Mexico, since about...oh, 1810 or so...has been engaged (or at least their pasty elites have been engaged) in a quest to make the skin of Mexico lighter; meaning, casting out those who are not as pasty as the elites.
Hence, instead of developing their population, they are hell-bent on casting them out.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
another dealer in hate speech
May 24, 2007 - 00:03 ET by tumblerYeah, old UNSANITY.
He thinks he's being funny when he denigrates another country's people. How is it he can't see his own racism in these ugly words ? (These are the same ones who denigrated the black American; back when political correctness was still to come.)
Funny, you can't spot any rac
May 24, 2007 - 02:41 ET by UnsaneFunny, you can't spot any racism in my posts: this post merely is a regurgitation of what I learned as a student of history. Yet, I can document your clear hatred of Asians, specifically the Japanese.
Not to mention your total hatred of anyone who isn't Catholic, and especially of me, since I reject any notion of there being such a thing as God.
Are you aching for me to embarrass you AGAIN?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
unsane shows his hatred
May 24, 2007 - 12:30 ET by tumblerUnsane says Mexicans are everything that's despicable; from their government on down to the poorest victim of poverty. But somehow he thinks he's saying something unbiased. Racists are always the ones who know all about another ethnic group. Unsane adds insanity to his racial bias. He's too crazy even to cover his racist tracks.
He claims I slurred Japanese by saying one single word. "Jap." The fact that every newspaper in the world used the term after Pearl Harbor, and our finest war correspondents did that as well;
That fact is lost on this mental midget. (Oh; now he''l declare me an enemy of the Seven Dwarves too ! Wow; I had better chill. He'll wank himself brain-dead calling THAT a slur too. ) Best not to incite half-wits to unnecessary lying. They never know where to stop.
Please point out where I have
May 25, 2007 - 02:29 ET by UnsanePlease point out where I have stated such a comment. It is fairly impossible for me to even think such a thing, considering my living in TX, in both San Antonio and Houston, with its large Hispanic community. Not to mention that after I show your pathetic accusation to quite a few friends of mine of Mexican ancestry, I am positive they will have a great laugh at your expense.
If I am this evil racist bastard you depict, then I should be running screaming to Iowa and its 90+% pasty population, right?
You did slur the Japanese. If that terminology is okay now, then why isn't it used in polite discourse today? There are quite a few words that were commonly used when you were younger that are no longer acceptable; just because they were used with abandon in earlier times doesn't make it acceptable now. You are just going to have to accept that fact.
Good to see though that you do not deny your intense hatred of anyone, Christian or otherwise, who isn't Catholic.
I agree on what you say about inciting half wits such as yourself to unnecessary, incessant lying. You surely don't know when to stop. Not to mention your constant whining of "Racist! Racist! Racist!" only makes life on those who ARE suffering from racism all the harder, since you are a shining example of The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
for the record:
May 25, 2007 - 13:19 ET by tumblerHere it is for the record, unsure and unsane:
"That was not against the Nazis in Europe; it happened in the Phillipines, when our men were fighting the Japs." --The context of my statement was about wartime, World War II.
Now shut up, I never slurred Japanese. I spoke about enemies in wartime. Since then I've even had a 2nd generation Japanese-American brother-in-law. So much for my alleged racism, you liar.
You have engaged in the mean-spirited, vile denigration of Mexico and Mexicans illegally in this country. That is hate speech; it's also racist speech. If you disagree, fine. It's a free country, that's my considered opinion. Speak like a racist, I call it racist.
As for saying my hatred of anybody, you include all Christians: that's also a bald-faced lie. I don't even hate YOU, and you're a bottom-feeder of the lowest kind. If you're going to debate me, keep it HONEST. You are no conservative if you do what most Democrat pols do, --LIE. Worse, you tell DUMB lies.
Proof, Mr. McCarthy
May 26, 2007 - 06:37 ET by UnsanePROVE that I hate Mexico or Mexicans or SHUT THE F*!K UP!!!
I don't take orders from hypocrites or the holier than thou. You hate the Japanese, and I can document that quite easily. I don't care if you spoke about them in wartime. Your hatred of the Japanese shows quite clear, you racist hypocrite.
(I for one find it quite amusing how I have pointed out that I have many friends of Hispanic heritage - not hard to do in TX - and that I have dated women of Hispanic heritage, and yet you STILL scream "RACIST!!! RACIST!!! RACIST!!!" YET, you engage in the exact same defense, and I am just supposed to shut up and accept it! I am about to hit a new level, where the absence of air will let me breathe!!! [h/t, Meshuggah])
What's the matter, tumbler? You don't like having your own excrement thrown right back at your face? Keep screaming like the pathetic infant you are.
Your hatred of all that is not Catholic is documented all over the place as well. Keep throwing that tantrum; it is telling all what your mental age is.
I am keeping it 100% honest - hence your tantrums on NB. The truth can be quite painful.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
he lets it all hang out
May 26, 2007 - 19:05 ET by tumblerAnother cockamanie outburst by unsane, The Corndog who Walks Like a Man. He's actually DATED a woman from somewhere in Mexico ! La dee dah ! Ask me if I care !
You prove my point here, unsane; Now that you've been challenged (and put down) you'll switch to that innocent guy who dated hispanic girls ! I don't give a fig if you dated Mother Theresa. You're always saying hateful things about illegal aliens and denouncing anyone who defends them. You simply LIE about how i've defended my faith aganst those who slam it. You wouldn't know faith if you were struck by lightning and lived.
PLUS; You LIE about me. That much sticks out. I haven't ever said ONE hateful thing about Japanese, orientals or anybody Asian. You plain INVENTED that shetty LIE. I would be a ninny if I didn't call you on it; you are PLAIN DISHONEST, a born liar.
Oh my goodness Tumbles...youv
May 23, 2007 - 17:26 ET by bassndudeOh my goodness Tumbles...youve lost it.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Yep. I thought I smelled dumb
May 23, 2007 - 20:12 ET by Roger the ShrubberYep. I thought I smelled dumbass. Tumbley-poo must be back.
El Guapo, you need to re-tool your talking points. You have been proven wrong so many times, on so many different threads covering so many different topics, by so many NB regulars, it is getting rather pathetic.
BTW, is that you with the bullhorn? I guess keeping your wife disappointed isn't a full-time job, since you have time to hang out con su amigas.
OH, MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And j
May 24, 2007 - 07:40 ET by Dave ROH, MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And just in time for the weekend, too. :-)
Reparations for pea pickers
May 23, 2007 - 09:11 ET by Cool ArrowGuess we all know the bill, if passed, would go directly to the courts for some pruning under the Equal Protection clause.
I still think Blacks will be pushed aside in the Muslicrats zeal to adopt a more lucrative group of ex slaves.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
Nope. The Nation of Islam won
May 23, 2007 - 09:19 ET by Sergeant ROCKNope. The Nation of Islam won't stand for that!
Put farming aside. How woul
May 23, 2007 - 12:26 ET by JDWPut farming aside. How would dems react to Wal-Mart hiring illegals?
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
Ahhhhhh...! Good question!
May 23, 2007 - 12:28 ET by Sergeant ROCKAhhhhhh...! Good question!
They're definitely worried ab
May 23, 2007 - 08:54 ET by Dave RThey're definitely worried about being raided and deported.
Good! That is as it should be.
The reason illegals arent wor
May 23, 2007 - 09:14 ET by well99The reason illegals arent working the fields is they are to busy working in processing plants,mills,construction and such.
So we'll be importing fruits
May 23, 2007 - 09:14 ET by dscottSo we'll be importing fruits and vegetables rather than people . . . I'll pay more for lettuce or anything else, because let me tell you something, I'd rather pay more for lettuce than pay more in property taxes for school systems that are overwhelmed. I'd rather pay more for lettuce than pay premiums for health care insurance because hospitals are overwhelmed. I'd rather pay more for lettuce than put the final death blow into the Social Security and Medicare systems in this country. Yes, I'll pay more for lettuce.
Thank you Mr. Levin for making the case for outsourcing. Why should we be building more roads, schools, jails, etc when their country of origin should do it for them? How many more people do we need, we have 300 million? Spreading jobs around, spreads the wealth which in turn creates more wealth and raises the standard of living in poor countries. So the question is why should we lower our standard of living when it is better for everyone involved to raise theirs?
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Mofo Lettuce
May 23, 2007 - 09:20 ET by Cool ArrowAbsolutely right dscott.
Seems kids used to do these jobs when I was a kid. Waitaminnit, I did these jobs when I was a kid. Maybe that's why I'm not selling crack today.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
Yup that is how you earned mo
May 23, 2007 - 09:33 ET by well99Yup that is how you earned money.To buy that 200 dollar car you had to push down a hill to start.Funny thing is alot of farm land around where I live has becoming houseing developements.
I live in a suburban developm
May 23, 2007 - 10:50 ET by ahusserI live in a suburban development. I never see kids shoveling walks, delivering papers or mowing lawns anymore. That and scavenging for deposit bottles was how you earned extra money even if you had an allowance.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
My senior year of high school
May 23, 2007 - 13:19 ET by InsufficientContextMy senior year of high school(7years ago) my economics teacher asked the class how many of us were currently unemployed. 16 hands went up. He then asked how many of us had never had a job, part time or in the summer. 12 hands stayed up. I grew up in a trailer park and had been working in a restuarant since I was 14. My mind was officially blown.
First off, this farmer, Vega,
May 23, 2007 - 09:35 ET by BeowulfFirst off, this farmer, Vega, openly admits to paying sub-standard salaries to illegals. Why is he not in jail? He has admitted, on national TV, that he not only hires illegals, but pays them below the mandated minimum wage.
This is just another installment of the whining such as we recently heard from the home construction industry about the lack of illegals is slowing home building. It also shhot down any argument whether illegals are being exploited on wages or not.
There are only two words I can thing of to address these exploiters: Ah waaa!
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
Where's ICE?
May 23, 2007 - 09:44 ET by Sergeant ROCKWhere's ICE?
Funny, I for one would like t
May 23, 2007 - 09:51 ET by dscottFunny, I for one would like to see the house building industry slow down some to allow the excess housing stock to come back into balance. This is just another example of illegal immigration interferring and distorting the economy with negative effects for all. When you upset the supply demand equation by over supplying cheap labor there are negative consequences.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
housing slump
May 23, 2007 - 10:29 ET by the mad poleI am currently working on one of the few remaining homes under construction here in central Florida's east coast. The completion is dragging,AT about 2 to 3,000 feet of space @ a half a million and used to be a waiting period just before the last interest rate increase. Now, I'm the last gringo standing. The only other non- hispanic is an Haitian. The three homes surrounding this home sit empty tho completed for months and the rest of this sub-division that is intertwined with a brand new golf course is desert , I'd say that things ARE SLOWED DOWN!! Never seen ICE while my oldest son and two of my nephews cannot find work. I was working two jobs and now I am part time. Things went from boom to poof in less than a year
Unfortunately, you have to ex
May 23, 2007 - 10:41 ET by dscottUnfortunately, you have to experience the consequences of other people's actions. It will take time to bring the housing market back into balance. As long as interest rates don't rise, the housing stock will have a chance to decline. Had builders not had access to cheap and plentiful labor, there would be a backlog of houses to be built, keeping you and others busy and thus limited the boom bust cycle.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
jobs Americans won't do
May 23, 2007 - 11:17 ET by the mad poleThat is why "jobs Americans won't do" rings so shallow, Stucco , soffit, painting,tiling, carpentry, landscaping, roof tile and shingles!!!!! The Gringos still do the finish work because some of the Asian home-buyers still demand quality. I AM A VICTIM OF NO CIRCUMSTANCE !
"...the last gringo stan
May 23, 2007 - 11:18 ET by Rackie"...the last gringo standing." Cool! Can I borrow that?
aye aye
May 23, 2007 - 11:20 ET by the mad poleCoitainly
ICE
May 23, 2007 - 09:51 ET by Cool ArrowIt's flowing across the border like black tar heroin. Oh, I thought you were talking about the supposed War on Drugs.
Never mind
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
This is exactly my problem
May 23, 2007 - 12:18 ET by general companyThis is exactly my problem with Illegals, they are not protected by US labor laws putting us in a very shady situation. First off, it makes it likely that Americans will not be able to do any of these jobs (illegals are currently doing) simply because they will not be protected. The employer cannot risk violating civil and labor rights of Americans, but illegals, they have been doing it for years with out fear. Second it also drives down wages of skilled labor. I have seen it here in New Orleans since Katrina.
Not only these reasons, we should not have folks here that we dont know. If our Gov has all of my info, they should have theirs too.
lettuce prices
May 23, 2007 - 10:09 ET by LionKingLook...I've used this example many times. If these farmers need these crops picked, offer $24 per hour instead of $6 per hour to the illegals.
This is a sorry example, but illustrative of the labor cost of lettuce. Say the illegal picks 1 head of lettuce per minute ... that's 60 heads per hour...that's 10 cents per head for labor.
Now if they hired a citizen at $24 per hour and produced at the same rate the labor cost per head of lettuce would be 40 cents per head or an additional 30 cents.
Can we live with 30 cents more per head of lettuce and not need to import labor or lettuce and keep US workers working? (Note: The labor cost per head of lettuce would be cut in half by merely picking 2 heads per minute and so on...)
Our so-called dependence on illegal imported labor is greatly exaggerated.
"our so-called depedence on illegal imported labor
May 23, 2007 - 10:46 ET by RJ"our so-called dependence on illegal imported labor is greatly exaggerated"
Yes, and our country is being sold down the river by our representatives...led by President Bush.
By the way, very nice breakdown of what would happen if we allowed market forces to operate.
Bush has used that '..they'r
May 23, 2007 - 10:50 ET by Sergeant ROCKBush has used that '..they're doing the jobs that Americans won't do..' claptrap in the past. Of course, he's only telling half of it: '.. for those kind of wages.'
Americans won't do
May 23, 2007 - 11:00 ET by Cool ArrowMaybe they could go to DC and do the jobs Congress won't do.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
LOL! No.. No.. No.. ! What's
May 23, 2007 - 11:06 ET by Sergeant ROCKLOL! No.. No.. No.. ! What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.
Oh, how 'bout in journalism as well?
Cinco de Mayo
May 23, 2007 - 11:24 ET by Cool ArrowAnd we'd all celebrate a holiday commemorating a victory in one battle in a war lost to the French.
Nothing to look forward to with hope and nothing to look backward on with pride. Una cerveza por favor.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
Rj- I don't think I have seen
May 23, 2007 - 11:10 ET by ahusserRj- I don't think I have seen a construction crew or landscaping crew that was not almost entirely made up of hispanics. They can't all be legally in this country. Contractor's depend on this labor legal or illegal to widen their profit margins. On the other hand It is my personal belief that these individuals work hard, don't complain and show up for work. Other than the language barrier it is a win win for the contractor.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
ahusser, you're mixing two concepts
May 23, 2007 - 11:17 ET by RJahusser, you're (inadvertently?) confusing the two concepts, which is what liberals and other pro-illegal apologists do. No one is saying hispanics aren't good workers....and whether they are or not has nothing to do with illegals.
Hiring illegals is NEVER a win-win for America.
Exactly! However, it's a 'win
May 23, 2007 - 11:20 ET by Sergeant ROCKExactly! However, it's a 'win-win' for politicians of both parties for entirely different reasons. Both of which, are not good for America.
I didn't imply that is was a
May 23, 2007 - 11:22 ET by ahusserI didn't imply that is was a win win for us but for the contractor who uses this labor. Just pointing out that these are competitive businesses. The illegal has become part of the equation in these industries. Economics usually wins out.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
Sorry, ahusser, but you continue to sound like
May 23, 2007 - 11:29 ET by RJSorry, ahusser, but you continue to sound as if you're defending the illegals and the businesses who hire them. Am I wrong?
No I am not defending them bu
May 23, 2007 - 11:39 ET by ahusserNo I am not defending them but I am pointing out why this is a problem and why they are hired. There is more money and less headaches to somebody who employs them with seemingly little consequence. The cheater reaps the rewards because enforcement of the laws are lax. In this situation there are incentives to cheating (using illegals as labor). If you go out of business because your competition is cheating and you can't control your labor costs and subsequent prices you are still out of business.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
Then, ahusser, referring back to my original statement
May 23, 2007 - 12:25 ET by RJThen, ahusser, I refer back to my original statement. Market forces are thrown out of whack by illegals.
why not
May 25, 2007 - 13:00 ET by usoa1980I have a solution to the I.A. problem.
Let us use the same immigration rules that Mexico uses.
The cheater reaps the rewards
May 23, 2007 - 17:35 ET by misterbillThe cheater reaps the rewards because enforcement of the laws are lax.
Then what must be done to rectify the situation? Or do you believe that the marketplace should rectify, which is a losing proposition for American workers?
Yes, ahusser, that's why dis-
May 23, 2007 - 17:54 ET by dahliatraversYes, ahusser, that's why dis-incentives like enforcement of the law must be introduced. (Not to mention for much more petty reasons like sovereignty, protecting our borders, upholding the rule of law ...)
As to your last point, I have no interest in or sympathy for companies who can only survive by exploiting workers and breaking the law.
breaking the law
May 23, 2007 - 17:50 ET by LionKingIf they are breaking the law, they are hurting the country. A nation without laws is an anarchy. They are breaking the laws, hence, illegal immigrants.
that's baloney
May 23, 2007 - 17:58 ET by tumblerYou say by entering illegally they break the law. Hurt this country.
But if only 12 million out of a total population of 300 million are hurting our country--
Why aren't (let's estimate conservatively) 35 million LEGAL citizens who break the law as well --why don't they destroy our country ? They number many more than the illegal immigrants, who, after all come here mainly to earn better wages than at home.
Yes; you do believe minnows can block the course of the widest river. Because you won't use the brain God gave you.
tumbler...open your eyes
May 23, 2007 - 18:05 ET by LionKingOPEN YOUR EYES and read. Its not that they enter the country illegally. Its not that they stay here illegally. One of the major problems is the choice to enforce the immigration laws to there fullest.
This sets a terrible precedent and as I stated, a nation without laws is an ANARCHY!!!
nonsense, lionish king
May 23, 2007 - 18:21 ET by tumblerA terrible precedent. BS.
Illegal immigration hasn't changed us into a nation without laws. They're upheld and enforced every day. On the border and everywhere else. Can't you simply stick to the truth ? Anarchy in the eyes of the beholder, who must be sniffing glue, from what I see here.
Here is another reason it wil
May 23, 2007 - 18:07 ET by bigtimerHere is another reason it will and does hurt our country tumb.http://www.redstate.com/stories/featured_stories/immigration_deal_would_grant_amnesty_to_parents_spouses_and_children
Tumbler, you are missing the
May 24, 2007 - 09:50 ET by dscottTumbler, you are missing the point of what's going on here, the population of this country has jumped by 50 million people since 1990 and is forecasted by the Census Bureau to jump another 50 million by 2025 that's a total of 350 million.
Yes, these 12 million people are hurting this country, they hurt the native born poor and minorities who are struggling needlessly due to depressed wages and lack of jobs, taken by illegals.
Your analogy while silly however does also make a point you completely missed, when minnows over multiply without restraint it unbalances the ecology for all the rest of the inhabitants whether by using up more oxygen in the water, dumping more waste (excrement) in the water, causing an algee bloom to consume the waste or eating up the remaining food supply. The point you missed is there are limits to everything in life, we have reached those limits with negative consequences for all. Or haven't you noticed the price of gas lately? Why do you think refineries are at their maximum capacities and every time they have a maintenance issue, a storm occurs or switch from winter to summer blend we have price hikes???? Does it not occur to you that 50 million extra consumers in the past 17 years have needs as well??? What are we going to do in 2025??? Pay $10/gallon for gas because the idiot Democrats refuse to allow new refinery construction to meet demand??? How does this help the poor??? Explain it to us.
The other point you also seem to miss is why are we, the US responsible to give these people something that their governments are supposed to give them? Your issue should not be with us, it should be with Mexico and all the other governments who incompetently run their economies not creating enough jobs for their citizens. We are not the bad guys here, they are.
The biggest point of all you missed is the notion of spreading the wealth, you of all people should be a champion of outsourcing jobs to foreign countries. Does it not occur to you that creating jobs in other countries through US companies investing there raises the standard of living in those respective countries????? Does it not occur to you that in doing so, their respective countries have to build roads and other infrastructure to accomodate that investment in factories, thus benefiting the local population???? Does it not occur to you that those governments tax these foreign investments which allows them to build schools, hospitals, etc..???? In the light of what I have pointed out, why would you insist that people uproot themselves and leave their families to come here to work instead of staying in their country???
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
tumbles, we here in Gods coun
May 23, 2007 - 17:58 ET by bassndudetumbles, we here in Gods country studied the health care cost to the state, directly related to illegals. Not legals, but illegals. The cost to tax payers here was some $512,000,000 per year. And rising. Thats when we passed the illegal alien law, and it was signed by the governer(D) and goes into effect Nov, 1st. Illegals will no longer be allowed to collect any state or federal funds or aid. No illegals will be allowed free education in our public schools, nor can the get grants or scholarships. Employers who employee illegals face a $5000 fine per illegal. Illegals well be deported, ( put on a bus and sent to MM more than likely). The state and local police with the OSBI and Sheriffs will be empowered with to lock them up untill transfer back to their home country. Makes no diffrence it that is Iran, Iraq, India, Africa or Mexico. From what I understand, they are leaving already...Think they are headed to NM.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bassndude, Old Pal
May 23, 2007 - 18:16 ET by tumblerCan anybody back up this calculation: "we here in Gods country studied the health care cost to the state, directly related to illegals. Not legals, but illegals. The cost to tax payers here was some $512,000,000 per year."
Yeah; a state bureaucrat threw some slips of paper up in the air; when they landed he had his estimate. Just plucked the first 9 up from the floor. You know quite well stats like these are always a shot in the dark. Nobody even knows the NUMBER of real, illegal aliens or where they come from. It's a guessing game. Statistics will confess to anything you wish; if you torture them enough.
Not just that. Many who are employed in well-paying jobs are definitely taxed. They also pay taxes on every purchase as well as fees, licenses, etc., --contributing in some small way to the state treasury.
Before you say I'm in favor of giving them all a pass; let me state unequivocally: they must be caught & deported. If we'd only stop the HATE SPEECH and lies. Our people of the Right must come to our senses and tell the TRUTH.
Next case !
tumbles, the fact that they c
May 23, 2007 - 18:29 ET by bassndudetumbles, the fact that they cost us money in the schools and in the hospitals is really just incidentals. Their population in relation to their income cannot = what we pay out for them. This includes the welfare, food stamps and other benifits that were designed for legal residents and citizens. I do not give 2 cents where that illegal is from, but I resent supporting him/her, paying their hospital bills, educating their kids and making sure they dont have to learn english in the process. Thats nonsense, not hate speech.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
yes you swallowed the nonsense
May 23, 2007 - 18:46 ET by tumblerAll of this is false. All of it is nonsense:
Their population in relation to their income cannot = what we pay out for them. Reply: You DON'T pay out for them. They work for their wages. They pay for their groceries. They pay for their gasoline, rent, clothes, etc., YOU supply nothing but hot air.
"This includes the welfare, food stamps and other benifits that were designed for legal residents and citizens." Reply: You've bought the false premise that they're "on welfare" or food stamps. They aren't, as a group. A few of them don't comprise the overall problem you assume it is. Your sentiments are bigoted and selfish. We're told by Jesus Christ to LOVE our neighbor. You got something against Jesus ?
I do not give 2 cents where that illegal is from, but I resent supporting him/her, paying their hospital bills, educating their kids and making sure they dont have to learn english-- Reply: You DO NOT "support" anyone. Nor do you "pay their hospital" nor educate them. That's a lie.
You swallow all the hate speech spouted about hard-working, honest folks. You listen to hate-mongers, then repeat the hate speech. They DO learn English; that's another lie. They speak Spanish or other language, but only amongst themselves. This is no crime; and you're biased against another man's native language ?
Too bad. Now you'll have to hear more of it. Serves you right, Pal.
...and this will be on numero
May 23, 2007 - 18:51 ET by bigtimer...and this will be on numerous ballots in '08...count on it tumbster.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273813,00.html
That would be fine if the all
May 23, 2007 - 10:56 ET by ahusserThat would be fine if the all the growers did the same thing. We would pay more for lettuce. But if all don't pay equal labor then you won't sell your lettuce cause yours is more expensive. Your margins would be the same and everybody would buy the cheaper lettuce. It could never be voluntary it would have to be a mandated wage (and enforced) for it to work.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
Yes and No. If all the grow
May 23, 2007 - 11:14 ET by dscottYes and No. If all the growers would obey the current laws and not employ illegals, then wages would rise to attract domestic labor or increase automation. That being said, no where according to a capitalist society such as ours is it required that all companies pay the same wages in the same industry. The workers at Dell are not paid the same as those at Apple yet they both make computers. Wages like products and services are charged as the market can bear according to the supply and demand equation. What politicians have ignored is Demand is always constrained by Price, a shortage always occurs when there is an artificial interference. As the price goes up, the demand is constrained creating a balance. When prices are artificially kept down through oversupply of cheap labor (stealth price control), a shortage develops because demand will continue to increase which in turn eventually causes prices to rise. The bottom line is the price of lettuce is going to go up anyway, so the argument for cheap labor is nonsensical in economic terms.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
"If all the growers woul
May 23, 2007 - 11:31 ET by ahusser"If all the growers would obey the current laws and not employ illegals" That is the point isn't it. Some cheat and break the law. If the law is not striclty enforced then they get away with it. The cheater sells more lettuce makes more money etc. The law abiding grower sales, margins and profits may be close to the same but I guarantee you he has a problem getting legal workers at the cheater's wage. It reminds me of Steroids use in Athletics. There is more incentive to cheat.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
ahusser, you use the same arguments as the pro illegal lobby
May 23, 2007 - 13:29 ET by RJahusser, you use the same arguments as the pro illegal alien lobby.
They say we can't catch them all so it's better to make the playing field level by making them all legal.
RJI haven't looked up the fig
May 23, 2007 - 14:09 ET by ahusserRJ
I haven't looked up the figures but I can bet there are no more than 10,000 deportations a year in this country. That doesn't include the more or less instant deportation on the border. The fact is if you make past the Border Patrol's jurisdiction and let's say San Diego now you have to 1. committ a crime for the INS to even look at you 2. file a detainer on the suspected illegal 3. May be go to trial on the original charges 4. Then the illegal gets a deportation hearing before a judge. 5. He may then be deported or not. That doesn't take into account the automatic indigent legal counsel the illegal will probably get and the fact that there are legal groups out there will make the hearing a long drawn out procedure. The reality is that there are not enough law enforcement officers and judicial figures (and money) in the entire country to do the job of deporting the sheer number of illegals already here. Personally, I'd rather have them on the grid, paying taxes and social security and actually having a valid driver's license and insurance. The only real solution is to shut the border down with fences and barb wire and maybe even have the military patrol and man the fences. (Oh my God! Posse Commitatus) stop the flow to a trickle. I was a cop for 30 years in the DC metro area the INS (ICE if you will) would never ever file a detainer on an illegal unless he was charged with a felony or he was wanted by them. They don't and never will have the manpower or resources (read money) to do the entire job.
ahusser, you're still using the pro-illegal alien lobby's argume
May 23, 2007 - 14:20 ET by RJ"The reality is that there are not enough law enforcement officers and judicial figures (and money) in the entire country to do the job of deporting the sheer number of illegals already here. Personally, I'd rather have them on the grid, paying taxes and social security and actually having a valid driver's license and insurance."
Again, ahusser, you use the arguments of the pro-illegal alien lobby, which says that it's just too big a job to get them all so let's capitulate and give them amnesty.
In reality, we're being hosed by our leaders who only pretend to try to handle the problem. We don't need to find all the illegals and the illegal employers. If our government began aggressively enforcing the laws, most of the jobs would dry up, illegals would stop coming and those here would begin returning to their home countries.
You say the Government. The G
May 23, 2007 - 15:28 ET by ahusserYou say the Government. The Government hands over the actual enforcement of laws to different Governmental agencies. Within those agencies are a certain number of authorized badge carrying agents/officers. The number is not infinite and can't be multiplied quickly because of the time and expense of training, selection, turnover, resignations, deaths, illness disability etc. I reiterate there are not enough enforcers or money available to do the job even if they wanted to there never will be enough to do the job. There are millions of illegals here. Even if you got the deportations up to 100,000 per year, (incredibly optimistic) not including the instant deportations at the border you couldn't do the job. These are practical realities. I am sure a number of ICE agents are working immigration law enforcement on the terrorist side of the street. The common illegal laborer is not a high priority. There is no way all the employers of these illegals will ever even become suspect much less investigated, arrested and tried. The only solution is to shut the border down nothing else will work.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
ahusser, you are still singing in concert with the pro-illegals
May 23, 2007 - 15:55 ET by RJYou are still singing in concert with the pro-illegal lobby, ahusser.
I repeat: the governmental leaders have only pretended to try to enforce the laws. If they show they mean business, the jobs will dry up. When the jobs dry up, the flow of illegals will dry up to a trickle.
I also support a secure border, but let's apply your argument about enforcing the laws to "shutting down the border." Since it would be impossible to stop infiltration, and that a good number will stll get through, does that mean it's pointless to try?
It's obvious that if the job market remains wide open, any amnesty, work visa, or whatever you attempt will have only a temporary effect, as there will always be more who want to come. We've tried the amnesty route a number of times without success. On the other hand a determined effort to remove the lure of the illegal job market would slow the flow and make a fence more workable.
Hmm, so if it is pointless to
May 23, 2007 - 16:13 ET by dscottHmm, so if it is pointless to deport all the law breakers or punish them because we can't get them all then why have the police at all? I mean thousands of crimes are committed every day in the US from stealing to rape to murder, and many of those crimes are never solved. By this logic we should disband the police force and let the criminals rule the streets.
But this logic does seem to be consistent also with Iraq and al Qaeda, we haven't stopped the bombing, we haven't stopped the all of the killing therefore we have failed and should just pack it in. Yeap, there is a consistent theme there - quitting...
You know, it seems to be a theme with liberals that when all the rhetoric fails, no one can be talked into something, just change the subject or redefine the problem.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Gee I must have failed some k
May 23, 2007 - 17:27 ET by ahusserGee I must have failed some kind of litmus test. I am no liberal and I am not a troll please don't call me one.You have misconstrued what I have said and trying to pick a fight with me over my comments all afternoon. I do know some things, I know how laws are enforced or not enforced, how enforcement of said laws are prioritized, budgeted, and resources allocated. I often did not and do not agree with how certain laws were enforced or not enforced for that matter. You can engage in wishful thinking all you want and can rail against the powers that be all you want. But the common illegal laborer is a low priority and will remain a low priority. If the illegal committs Felonies such as rape and murder or terrroristic acts their crimes will be investigated as a matter of course. They, if found guilty, will go to prison or be deported. It doesn't mean that Law enforcement should turn a blind eye to the problem. If certain officers are sworn to enforce the immigration laws then they should do their jobs. Just don't think that all the illegals are going to go away, or be deported in any great numbers or that the myriad numbers of employers are going to be investigated, charged, found guilty, fined and jailed. It's is not going to happen. We do, however, need to close the border with fences, and barb wire and listening devices, and trenches and all the means at our disposal. Without the huge and constant influx of illegals maybe we can deal effectively with the ones that are already here.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
You are incorrect, ahusser
May 23, 2007 - 17:45 ET by RJActually, ahusser, you have just responded to a different poster. Are you not reading the posts? Are you just glancing over them?
Although your position does mesh with that of liberals and some of our RINO Republicans, I have not called you a liberal or a troll and I have not been trying to pick a fight. I have been responding to your points BUT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN RESPONDING TO MINE.
For example in this last post of yours you wander into crimes commmitted by illegals, which is not something we have been discussing.
Please respond to the points I made.
attrition
May 23, 2007 - 17:42 ET by misterbillattrition--
An excerpt from CIS:
"Studies of the size and growth of the illegal population show that a borders-oriented strategy like SBI, (my note here: Secure Border Initiative) which aims to improve border security and focuses mainly on removing criminal aliens, will achieve only limited results. If supplemented by attrition through enforcement, which encourages voluntary compliance with immigration laws rather than relying on forced removal, the illegal population could be nearly halved in five years. According to the government’s own cost estimates, such a strategy requires an additional investment of less than $2 billion, or $400 million per year – an increase of less than 1 percent of the President’s 2007 budget request for the Department of Homeland Security ($42.7 billion)."
There is more and it reads good. I have posted it about four times without any comments or responses.
here is the whole thing
a little more
May 23, 2007 - 17:46 ET by misterbillRequiring employers to verify the status of workers could deny jobs to about three million illegal workers in three years, affecting at least one-third of the illegal population. This measure is a central feature of H.R. 4437, the enforcement measure passed by the House of Representatives in December, and is estimated to cost just over $400 million over five years.
The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) knows the name, address, and place of employment of millions of illegal aliens, and issues hundreds of millions of dollars in tax refunds and tax credits to illegal aliens. Changing the laws to provide for information-sharing would help boost immigration law enforcement at minimal cost.
Thank you, misterbill
May 23, 2007 - 17:54 ET by RJThank you, misterbill. I had not seen this, but it matches quite a bit with what I have been saying to ahusser all day. It's frustrating that these amnesty people can't see that eforcement, attrition and border security must be a combined strategy put together BEFORE considering any form of amnesty.
General amnesty has been tried on two occasions (1965 and 1986) and then tweaked six or seven times since 1986. IT HAS NOT WORKED AND IT WILL NEVER WORK BY ITSELF!
The senate refused to pass the bill--
May 23, 2007 - 18:01 ET by misterbillThe senate refused to pass the bill--(HR4437) and at a time when the Pubs had the majority. I am for ousting and trashing the entire Senate-- I really don't care if some good ones get dumped with the bad. Let's start over.
No, I really don't want to dump Inhofe, Bunning to name few. Any Republican who would compromise with Ted Kennedy has struck a deal with the devil. Just like the frog and the scorpion, they will never make it to the other side.
I concede. Have a nice day.
May 23, 2007 - 18:14 ET by ahusserI concede. Have a nice day.
Exactly. The job of control
May 23, 2007 - 18:20 ET by dahliatraversExactly. The job of controlling our borders is being inflated to discourage us.
Yes, we need a fence. Yes, it must be patrolled. But above all, we need to start enforcing employment laws. This takes away the reason for people to risk their lives to come here. Further, it is a much smaller task than attempting to locate and deport 12m+ people, who will still be incentivized to come back because we have not shut down the supply of jobs.
And absolutely, RJ, the immigration "reform" of 1965 and 1986 led to the present unacceptable situation and "our broken system", as the senior Senator from Massachusetts calls it.
Now they want to do it a third time? Thanks, fellas, but I think you've done enough.
Sen. Kennedy was instrumental in creating the 1965 amnesty.
May 23, 2007 - 19:09 ET by RJWe never hear about it, but the Senior Senator from Massachusetts was instrumental in the implementation of the 1965 amnesty, which brought about the first disasterous "chain migration." In spite of the bill's promises to "fix" the border, it did nothing to curb illegal immigration. In fact, it probably had the result of encouraging more illegals to come over.
(George W. Bush is destroying the Republican Party.)
RJ,Of course we never hear ab
May 23, 2007 - 19:16 ET by bigtimerRJ,
Of course we never hear about Kennedy and his '65 amnesty Bill, just here and there, not msm that is for sure.
...as for President Bush destroying the party...I have to look at it as he may be strengthening it by his actions with a lot of issues I am furious with...anger is a good reason to make people yearn for a change if we get a real conservative through and through to go to the polls.
My one worry is the vacancies on the republican side in the Senate coming up....always has been for a very long time.
Apathetic primary voters are
May 24, 2007 - 00:00 ET by UnsaneApathetic primary voters are destroying the Republican party.
The refusal to stand on principles is destroying the Republican party.
The refusal to communicate its message and ideas directly to the people and adopting a "damn the press, full speed ahead!" attitude is destroying the Republican party.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane, George W. Bush is destroying
May 24, 2007 - 10:02 ET by RJUnsane, George W. Bush is destroying a Republican Party that has been weakened by standing behind his decision to stick with Iraq (not a judgment, just a fact).
He is doing that by trying to force this crude, Democrat-favoring amnesty bill down our throats. If it passes, it will cause major harm to the U.S. and it will end any chance of Republicans regaining Congress in the near future.
RJ - I see your point and I agrree BBUUTT-
May 24, 2007 - 10:29 ET by misterbillRJ - I see your point and I agrree BBUUTT- He is doing the right thing in Iraq. It, unfortunately, has been FASHIONABLE to criticize him for the war. We are there longer and suffering more losses of our troops and not to be mercenary, expending a large amount of money. Are you suggesting he is wrong? If so, I stand four-square against you. We -, almost all, wanted him to do what he did. Check the voting record of the Congress and the Senate. Were you opposed on day one? Are you a sunshine warrior? Are you succumbing to the pressures of the cut and run folks and the news reporting? I am not trying to insult you. I hold your opinions in high esteem.
Now--you are correct because America is losing its heart for this was. Well, to hell with them, I am losing heart for those Americans.
Now as to all the other issues, I am in agreement with you. Anyone , of course is free to disagree with me, but I feel that his position on most other issues are opposite to what most Republicans want. He is a true "lame duck". He is struggling hard to leave a "legacy". A very common mistake of people in high positions. Because of that, he has entered a "compromise" with the most vile public official ever in office, Ted Kennedy. I will bet if a survey was run that a great number of people would express their distrust of this "paragon of virtue" (to the people of Massachusetts, God help them.). So, in his final days of a weak administration GW gets in bed with the devil. I am debating becoming an independent. I have, long ago, dropped my RNC membership.
Again, RJ I sincerely respect your opinions that I have read and with due respect, I submit that you are as angry as I am and would like to see the messes GW has created go away.
mrbill, we are in agreement, but President Bush is wrong
May 24, 2007 - 10:51 ET by RJmrbill, we are in agreement. You've read my post incorrectly. I made a point of saying it was NOT a judgment about Iraq, but an assessment that it has caused the Republican Party to be weakened.
President Bush must be aware of that, but in spite of it, he's pushing a policy on illegals that will effectively destroy the Republican Party.
I knew thaaat! LOL
May 24, 2007 - 11:03 ET by misterbillI knew thaaat! LOL He jokes as his face reddens----sorry RJ.
Well, then, damnit, don't vot
May 25, 2007 - 02:35 ET by UnsaneWell, then, damnit, don't vote for George Bush for President in 2008!!!
If you don't want to see the Republican party get destroyed, vote in the next primary for candidates who stand on conservative principles that won't back nonsense such as this bad legislation. Also, vote for candidates who will stand on principle, and those that will constantly fight for their principles and ideas, over and above the heads of the media.
Oh, and by the way, bitch and moan not to me, but to your Congresscritters and Senators and let them no that there is no way in hell you want to see such a horrible bill see the light of day, much less the President's desk.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
law enforcement
May 23, 2007 - 14:03 ET by LionKingIf the current laws were enforced, it would make things better.
If it became a felony for an employer to hire illegals (mandatory jail time), it would be even better. Much of the enforcement of the laws would go away once employers stopped hiring illegals...supply and demand. I guarantee if employers faced mandatory jail time, they would not risk using illegals.
"WE" pay dearly!
May 23, 2007 - 10:43 ET by nicksmith112LAWRENCE: He said, 'we'd have to pass the costs on to the consumer.'
_______________________
Don't "WE" already pay for the cost of illegals?
When an illegal has a child or needs medical care "WE" pay for it!
Don't "WE" pay to educate the children of illegals???
Don't "WE" pay for the illegals in the criminal justice system????
Translation: In order to mai
May 23, 2007 - 10:45 ET by Sergeant ROCKTranslation: In order to maintain our current PROFIT MARGINS, thanks to cheap labor, we have to raise prices.
Dearly indeed
May 23, 2007 - 10:48 ET by Cool ArrowAnd those expected to support all of us white skinned retirees will have a change of heart when the ratio is 2 retirees to 1 worker.
We wrote our own warrant when we chose illegal immigration and ZPG.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
Good point.
May 23, 2007 - 10:51 ET by Sergeant ROCKGood point.
Which is precisely why libera
May 23, 2007 - 10:51 ET by dscottWhich is precisely why liberals love illegal immigration, for them it's the gift that keeps on giving. Without the illegals they wouldn't have the health care crisis of hospitals trying to stick the paying customers with the bills of the non paying customers. They wouldn't be talking univesal health insurance either since again guess who gets stuck with the bill for those who can't pay, i.e. the illegals? Yeap, that's us. When hospitals get stuck with the unpaid bill and can't pass it on, that's called bankruptcy, talk to the people in CA about that one.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
As evil as I believe the libs
May 23, 2007 - 10:59 ET by ahusserAs evil as I believe the libs are they aren't dumb. Some or most of the illegals will be voters someday. Which way do you think they are going to vote?
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
On FOX News yesterday, E.D. H
May 23, 2007 - 11:02 ET by Sergeant ROCKOn FOX News yesterday, E.D. Hill was talking to a reporter from a radio station in San Antonio about illegals voting in elections in Texas. Imagine my surprise?
Elections in San Antonio
May 23, 2007 - 11:09 ET by Cool ArrowNo surprise.
Voting irregularituies occur only in Muslicrat counties.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
No not voting irregularities.
May 23, 2007 - 11:14 ET by ahusserNo not voting irregularities. The libs are investing in the future. Their (illegals) offspring born here will be citizens, some will be given amnesty, some will become naturalised. They will be legal voters.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
Irregularities
May 23, 2007 - 11:19 ET by Cool ArrowAnd the GOP will have died a self inflicted death.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT!
May 23, 2007 - 11:22 ET by Sergeant ROCKYOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT!
Tumbler
May 23, 2007 - 11:18 ET by Cool ArrowLast I heard, Tumbler was picketing PBS for its expose' on the Secret Files of the Inquisition. I imagine he particularly liked the "Kidnap a Jew baby" segment where the church created the first Jewish Ghettos and kept them shut in while barren Italians righteously kidnapped their children. Circa 1858.
Having a good time Tumbler?
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
I went shopping, Riled
May 23, 2007 - 17:10 ET by tumblerI don't picket. I've just been browsing eBay; buying a few nice DVDs. Been a little jet lagged of late, having been on a two weeks holiday overseas.
Do you agree with the History Channel & various other muck-raking tools of the anti christian left ? Looks like it. I haven't seen the one you cite above. Hate to disappoint cha.
It is interesting how illegal
May 23, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Phan of TruthIt is interesting how illegal immigration supports big businesses by lowering the equilibrium price of labor, yet it is argued for by many liberals whose aims are equality. If the illegal aliens left, businesses would be looking for workers and would have to pay more to entice people to do the job. If uncorrupted, the free market helps the workers, but many fail to see it.
Which is why liberals love th
May 23, 2007 - 11:34 ET by dscottWhich is why liberals love this issue as they have a vested interest in creating problems to solve. Without a problem to solve, who needs their leadership? Meddling in the economy creates problems which of course has negative consequences (victimhood) for someone. We all know the Dem party is for the victims.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
That's it in a nutshell. Ther
May 23, 2007 - 11:38 ET by Sergeant ROCKThat's it in a nutshell. There's nothing more to be added.
Victimhood
May 23, 2007 - 11:40 ET by Cool ArrowThe Muslicrats are very good at enslaving groups by postulating a victim entitlement mentality. There's the hook.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
It's very hard to understand
May 23, 2007 - 12:00 ET by Phan of TruthIt's very hard to understand that mode of thinking if you really are fair.
Unbelievable! I can't believ
May 23, 2007 - 13:22 ET by whatajoyUnbelievable! I can't believe people SUPPORT illegals here and have compassion for them. Give me a break. No other country caters to foreigners like USA does. It's insane!
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CSI Miami
A show so cheesy and lame, it's fun to watch!
http://www.youtube.c...
Numbers aren't being reported
May 24, 2007 - 12:20 ET by kirch66According to a 1995 National Agricultural Workers Survey, 37 percent of farm workers in the US are illegal aliens, while at least 15 percent of the total of such workers, legal and illegal, are unemployed in any given month, even during harvest season. (source). This means that the other 63% majority are people working legally. So the Left are trying to say that if we lost 37% of the farm workers that the price of strawberries would double or triple?!? Absurd! (but maybe not to anyone without a basic understanding of elementary economics - i.e. public schools) It might raise the price of a box of strawberries at my local grocery store by a few cents at most. I'm willing to pay a couple of pennies more to secure our borders and ensure our already bloated government social services aren't abused by people who don't deserve them.
It would also cut down on the identity theft wave that is sweeping the nation in the last several years.
"The moment you give up your principles and your values, the moment you laugh at those principles and those values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period." - Oriana Fallaci
To bad they werent using SSNs
May 24, 2007 - 23:50 ET by well99To bad they werent using SSNs of congressman and msm then you would see it every night in the news.Instead MSNBC has had this in the last 3 days.
It is breaking up families.
A wall on the border will be detrimental to wildlife.
Debt problems.For illegals to pay the fine they must see loan sharks.