GMA, Early Show Tout Immigration Bill as ‘Historic Day’

Photo of Scott Whitlock.

On Friday, both CBS and ABC skewed their coverage of the Senate’s immigration bill to the left. Neither network featured a conservative talking head that opposed the legislation, instead "The Early Show" and "Good Morning America" simply referred to the "critics" who believe the bill would amount to amnesty for those who came to the country illegally. However, while both networks also interviewed Senator Ted Kennedy, ABC anchor Diane Sawyer actually pressed the liberal legislator with several conservative points.

GMA used flowery language to discuss the Senate’s action, describing the legislation as "landmark." Co-host Sawyer asserted, "It was a historic day to see Republicans and Democrats coming forward on something together." ABC even queried illegal aliens as to what they think of the Senate’s action:

Diane Sawyer: "Everyone taking sides. [sic] But sometimes it’s good to hear the voices from the people who are at the center of the debate. And some of these illegal 12 million have been phoning in to Talk Back, which is our website. Here's one woman who partially hid her face."

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Unidentified female Illegal alien: "Don't make us live in fear of being ripped away from our family and friends and the things that we live for. Please, give us a chance. Give us papers so that we can stay here. Let us become legal immigrants."

Earlier in the segment, ABC anchor Robin Roberts introduced the piece by describing how the legislators presented a "unified front" by "coming together to make this deal work," Reporter Martha Raddatz began by featuring clips of only those who favored the immigration deal:

ABC Graphic: "Historic Immigration Deal: Bush: ‘It Will Treat People With Respect’"

Martha Raddatz: "Good morning, Robin. The plan is already being criticized but this is a major step forward. For the illegal immigrants already in the country, the change would be historic."

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina): "The people will get to participate in this program will get a chance to be American, on our terms, not theirs."

Raddatz: "These are the terms: The roughly 12 million illegal immigrants who entered the U.S. before January 1 of this year would be issued what's called a Z visa to live and work here legally. To keep the status, they would have to pay a $5,000 fine over eight years and heads of household would have to return to their home countries to obtain another visa stamp. Reentry would be guaranteed."

President George W. Bush: "People who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty, but without animosity."

Considering that Congress passed a very similar amnesty bill in 1986, It’s odd to repeatedly refer to the Senate’s legislation as unique or "historic." Raddatz proceeded to feature a clip of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi praising the bill and only offered brief, text quotes of opposition from conservatives such as Newt Gingrich, Tom Tancredo and Mitt Romney.

Over on CBS, "Early Show" reporter Sharyl Attkisson continued the theme of highlighting only those talking heads who support the liberal legislation:

Sharyl Attkisson: "After weeks of marathon meetings, an eclectic group of negotiators, both Democrats and Republicans, worked out a compromise on immigration reform with the president's stamp of approval.

Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA): "In the agreement we just reached is the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders, bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America."

Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA): "It is not amnesty. This will restore the rule of law. Without legislation, we will have anarchy."

Attkisson went on to cite Democratic Senator Diane Feinstein and quickly mentioned that "critics are already labeling the compromise amnesty."

However, GMA's Diane Sawyer should be given credit for pressing Senator Ted Kennedy, a guest on the two shows.

Consider these conservative-leaning questions by the ABC co-host to the liberal legislator:

Sawyer: "But the fact is, [illegal aliens] broke the rules. And is this fair? At the end of the day, however practical, is it fair?"

Sawyer: "And yet, all that is being done is adding 300 miles of fence to a 2000 mile border. And I've heard people say, you know, it's only 15 feet high in places, and people can buy ladders that are 16 feet high. How is this going to stop more illegal immigrants from coming in?"

Sawyer: "So you're assuring Americans that after this, there will be no more illegal immigration across the Mexican border, across the southern border?"

In comparison, "Early Show" co-host Hannah Storm asked only two questions about the legislation, with one being a softball question as to whether "this is the last best chance to strike a deal on immigration."

A transcript of Senator Kennedy’s interviews on the two networks, which aired during the 7am hour, can be found below:

GMA

5/18/07

Diane Sawyer: "Everyone is taking sides. But sometimes it’s good to hear the voices from the people who are at the center of the debate. And some of these illegal 12 million have been phoning in to talk back, which is our website. Here's one woman who partially hid her face."

Unidentified female Illegal aliens: "Don't make us live in fear of being ripped away from our family and friends and the things that we live for. Please, give us a chance. Give us papers so that we can stay here. Let us become legal immigrants."

Sawyer: "So, let's turn now to a powerful force behind this deal, Democratic Senator Edward Kennedy who joins us this morning. And thank you Senator Kennedy. You know, everyone listens to a young woman like that and feels the yearning to live in America. Who wouldn't want to live in America? But the fact is, she and 12 million broke the rules. And is this fair? At the end of the day, however practical, is it fair?"

Senator Edward Kennedy (D-Massachusetts): "Well, the way that this legislation has been fashioned, I believe that it's a fair, and it’s basically humane. You know, you have to start at the very beginning, and that is we have broken borders and have to have a secure border system. That is very important and that is a very key part of it. Secondly, we have to have adequate enforcement of the changed laws. And this legislation has that. But at the end of the day, what we're saying is all of those who are in application now to come into the United States to be a part of their family, and that list can go up to 40 or 50 years in the future. All of those will be able to come in here over the period of the next eight years, and then, and only then, only then, can these individuals who are here now and undocumented can begin their path towards the citizenship after paying a fine, demonstrating their working, and people who want to be a part of the American dream. This legislation has a variety of different dimensions. It hasn’t, as you heard earlier in the program, going to have uniformity in terms of support. But this system is broken now. This is our last, best chance. And we have a real opportunity to get a hold of this issue that’s clearly in our national interest. And I think it's also a reflection of our fairness in terms of how we're going to treat people."

Sawyer: "You mentioned securing the borders Senator Kennedy, and so many people have said, you know, at the very least make sure that no additional illegal immigrants are coming in before you do this. And yet, all that is being done is adding 300 miles of fence to a 2000 mile border. And I've heard people say, you know, it's only 15 feet high in places, and people can buy ladders that are 16 feet high. How is this going to stop more illegal immigrants from coming in?"

Kennedy: "Well, first of all, we’ve had extensive hearings. The fence, as you point out if it's 40 feet high, it can always be over 41 feet high. The fence itself is only a small fraction of the total kind of security aspects that are established. There’s a wide variety of different kinds of use of modern technology on the border, and a very important kind of impact on it. We had very extensive testimony to that. And I think the fact is, that, I think that it's, it’s going to be put in place and we've had extensive hearings on it. We can secure our borders and we plan to do so."

Sawyer: "So you're assuring Americans that after this, there will be no more illegal immigration across the Mexican border, across the southern border?"

Kennedy: "That's always going to be a challenge when you have people, 500 individuals last year, that died in the desert because they were so desperate to get in here. You’re going to have people that are still going to try and risk this. But what we are saying is that for the first time in American history, first time in our history, we're going to have the secure borders. This is a mix of strong borders, strong local law enforcement, and a sense of humanity and decency. People were drawn here. Who are these individuals here? Most of them, they're coming, they want to work hard. They want to have their future for their family. The motivations that bring these individuals here to the United States, very much the motivations that brought my great grandparents here to the United States from Ireland. They want to be part of the American dream They want to make a difference and contribute to this country. They shouldn't be given amnesty, they're not under this legislation. I'm surprised my friend Mitt Romney calling it that, because he supported our bill the last time and now I guess he's changed his position. But, so be it. But this is a good program, it’s a down payment. We have Republicans and Democrats alike. We’re going to try and make it work. It’s going to be complex. I hope for the nation's, for the nation’s interest, we can make it work."

Sawyer: "Well, if nothing else, it was a historic day to see Republicans and Democrats coming forward on something together."

The Early Show

05/18/07

Hannah Storm: "As Sharyl reported, the most significant factor is the immigration bill's bipartisan support. Massachusetts Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy was a key figure in bringing the sides together. Senator Kennedy, good morning."

Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA): "Good morning."

Storm: "You've been in office 45 years. Can you put this bill in perspective in terms of what kind of window of opportunity Congress has right now? Do you agree with Senator Lindsey Graham's assessment that this is the last best chance to strike a deal on immigration?"

Kennedy: "Well, I agree with Senator Graham. Our borders are broken. Americans all over this country say that Congress should take action. We need to take action to secure our borders. We need to take action to stop the exploitation of workers all over this country. And we need to provide a pathway for those that have come here, worked hard, played by the rules, willing to pay a fine, go to the back of the line, and then have an opportunity to earn the American dream by, by citizenship and full participation in this, in this situation. This is a situation, an issue about our humanity, as well as about our security. And it's a divisive issue. It's an emotional issue. People on all sides of the political spectrum have strong ideas. You can have a viewpoint on immigration very quickly in the day and people have strongly held views, and we've been able to try to bring those together, we're going to debate those on the floor of the United States Senate. And hopefully, do for the first time in more than 40 years, and do what the Congress should do, work together to try and deal with a national problem."

Storm: "Some conservatives are critical of this bill. They say it grants virtual amnesty to those who have entered the country illegally. Is this amnesty?

Kennedy: "No, that's sort of a slogan and a cliche you're going to hear a great deal about. The 1986 bill was an amnesty bill. I actually voted against it. It said that if you are here, you actually have the opportunity to become citizen. This does not do it. What this legislation does, it says, we have a backlog of family members that are out there that have waited a long time and gotten in line. All of those individuals over the period of the next eight years are going to be able to come into this country. Meanwhile, for those individuals that are here, to come out of the shadows, they're going to have to demonstrate that they have been working hard over those eight years, that they've been playing by the rules, and they're going to have to pay a fine. And if they meet all of these criteria, then they can go to the back of the line and begin the pathway towards citizenship, if they are going to be good citizens. This is an earned legalization. And it's going to bring people out of the shadows. Avoid the kinds of exploitations which have taken place. Complex issue, but a fair issue, and we hope to be able to get the strong support in the Senate and House and have the President sign it."

—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.


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It's not amnesty, not not not

It's not amnesty, not not not I tell ya!

Historic my arse....

This is not going to pass...IMO.

I hope people call their Senators and Congressmen/women.

Pelosi has already stated she will not even bring it up if she isn't guaranteed 70 repub votes and Reid is back-peddling.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273515,00.html

"12 million illegals&quo

"12 million illegals" - how do they know?   I'll bet you a taco that it's closer to 25 million. I say they just pulled the number "12" out of their ass. They have no clue.

""12 million ille

""12 million illegals" - how do they know? I'll bet you a taco that it's closer to 25 million. I say they just pulled the number "12" out of their ass. They have no clue."

No no no, my friend, there aren't 12 million here. It's only about 100,000 or so, and their presence here doesn't cost you a dime. And who cares if some of these poor, hard working people end up on welfare, or some other government assistance program. Aren't Americans taking advantage of these same programs? And who cares that they are fully vested into the social security system after paying in for only 6 quarters, where you, the dirty, Mexican-hating LEGAL American citizen has to pay in for 40 quarters.

Admit it, you're a racist that hates Mexicans.

Just thought I would save our resident apologist some time. ;)

ckc1227

LOL-Whew! For a moment there, I thought you had been possessed by the evil tumbledweeb.  :-)

You had me going there. I tho

You had me going there. I thought you were a angrykneejerkleftwingbleedingheartegalitarian (aslongasit'swithotherpeople'smoney)socialist troll.

  Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.

"It's not amnesty, not,

"It's not amnesty, not, not, not, I tell ya!"  Let's see, that's two double negatives, which make two positives, which means it is amnesty.  Yup, it's an amnesty, all right.  To get the z-visa, they'll have to pay a fine over several years, and the head of household will have to go back to their home country (Mexico in the vast majority of cases) to fill out a regular visa, and they are guaranteed reentry into this country.  Ladies and gentlemen, and tumbler, too, even though you no longer exist here, this is an amnesty.

I've called both of my Senators asking that they vote NO if any such language is included in the immigration reform bill.  I even asked them to move to strike this provision from the bill when it comes up for debate.

The vote in the Senate Monday is on whether or not to consider this bill, not a vote on the bill itself (according to Senator Inhoff's office).

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

I'm calling Monday....glad we

I'm calling Monday....glad we are all doing this.

People are all over this country, this is not a party issue, it is something we all should get to vote on and it sounds like we are through to the politicians using different venues, but we are getting the message to them...loud and clear!

Although I always have called about bills and amendments long before I got lucky and have this wonderful machine I am using now...lol!

Please don't make Americans L

Please don't make Americans Live in Fear that the Emergency rooms will be TOO BUSY with Illegals to give your heart Attack Immediate Attention.

Please don't make Americans live in Fear that our Borders are not Secure.

Please don't make Americans live in Fear that the Illegal behind the Wheel of the Junk car doesn't speak English or read English Road signs.

We don't need no stinking "immigration bill"...we need the current Laws Enforced.

What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ?   David Foote  GoE

What I faxed my congressional royalty 2day

WHAT I FAXED to my congressional royalty 2day...This bill is bad. It is amnesty. Any Kennedy Bill will be dangerous, expensive and changed later to be more so. It is time to stop the pandering! Complete the wall, 2 of 700 miles completed is a joke. Then enforce current law... who do you think you are fooling? Its all your fault, not the voters or the illegals.

Get real and enforce the law, (also more on my theconservativecrawfish blog)

That's also what your congres

That's also what your congressman promptly crumpled up and tossed in the waste basket.  E for effort though.

Oh they are listening Leon...

Oh they are listening Leon....give 'em a call yourself, do something useful....for a change.

bt,Leon can't do anything use

bt,

Leon can't do anything useful, as he is much too busy keeping that sofa pinned to the floor.   :-)

doesn't speak English or read

doesn't speak English or read English Road signs.

Speaking of that JT I heard today in their humongous bill they have secretly jumbled together over something like 700 pages that they managed to take out the requirement to speak English...

Isn't that just precious!

bt...Today I heard an explana

bt...

Today I heard an explanation on my local talk radio station that almost had some validity to it until I thought it through.

The reason (according to the host of this show) that so many politicians are willing to sell us down the road on the illegals issue is they beleive by adding all these (12 to 25 million) illegals to the government rolls will offset the disaster that looms ahead for the solvency of Social Security and they would end up looking like heroes, especially the Dems.

The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.

Hi Ct...I haven't heard that

Hi Ct...

I haven't heard that scenario, but it makes sense too.

I just feel that this is to do exactly as the leftist visualize this country...more to add that cripple and socialize all of our institutions therefore our whole country....result more leftist voters.

...sorry I am in a rush...I've got a big beautiful lost dog out here in the woods, a blue eyed husky type of dog and my other three males are going nuts...it is a she.

Catch ya in a few....lol!

No.  It's because they think

No.  It's because they think they will vote for Democrats, especially if they can buy the votes through public assistance.

" 'Fred's Slacks'  is a winner!!"

Si, senor!!!!(was going to sa

Si, senor!!!!

(was going to say more, but that's all the Mexican I know - and I don't care to learn any more!)

No RINOs in '08 - Vote for a true conservative!

I would challenge both Sawyer

I would challenge both Sawyer and Raddatz on the value of this draft bill. For one thing, I understand it's 1000-pages long, so who's had a chance to sift through the language and tell us what it really does, vice what the 3 Dems and 7 Reps forming the group promise us.

Sawyer might have had some more questions about the popularity of this bill had she been listening to call-ins on C-SPAN this morning instead of illegal immigrants.  While driving to work, I listened to C-SPAN for about a half-hour.  The calls were from Dems, Reps, and independents, and about the most positive comments I heard were along the lines of "Well, at least they were able to reach a compromise."  Most callers --- including a majority of self-described Democrats --- hated the bill, with some callers referring to Senator Graham as a traitor.  Certainly, call-ins to C-SPAN don't constitute a scientific survey, but I think they do reflect a lot of general anger on Main Street USA over the Federal government's (1) failure to enforce existing laws, and (2) proposal of a new law that will probably get as little enforcement as the old one.

"The United States, the

"The United States, the greatest nation on this earth, is above all a nation of laws ...... well kinda ... sort of ... in a way"

Hanging my head in shame!  Stop whinning about "how hard it is to pass a fair immigration law"  You already did you idiots!  It's on the books - enforce it or eliminate it & throw open the borders & let everyone come on in!  At least that will guarantee a Democrat majority in both houses & in the Whitehouse - of course there will be no tax base and just try seperation of Church & State when we are all forced to convert to Islam.

God Bless America!

I think they meant, "una

I think they meant, "una dia historica."

Ms. Sawyer got one thing corr

Ms. Sawyer got one thing correct, this is an historic day. Almost every single person that I come into contact with considers the illegals issue a huge problem, and the vast majority of these people do NOT want to reward illegals for their behavior. With this in mind, I beleive this historic day will be the day that people finally get off their asses and make calls to their Reps. This will be the turning point for politicians in this country. Will they listen to the people or will they listen to whatever special interest groups that are shaping these decisions? This is a historic day, and one that will bite every rear-end that votes for this amnesty bill.

The one other thing we have going for us is... anything Teddy Kennedy is for, most clear thinking people will be against!

The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.

The thing that concer

The thing that concerns me about any sort of immigration law
reform is that every few years they re-invent the same laws. Each time they
work in amnesty and gravy parts for the illegal aliens. They are always quick
to hand out the amnesty and gravy parts but they never do get around to the
enforcement parts of the laws.

Do they really need a shiny new set of laws when they have
never given the old comprehensive laws a test drive?

http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/051101_nd.htm

Notices of intent to fine employers:

1997: 865

1999: 417

2000: 178

2001: 100

2003: 162

2004: 3

Worksite arrests of
illegal alien workers:

1997: 17,554

1999: 2,849

2000: 953

2001: 735

2003: 445

2004: 159

Just watched Glenn Beck, an

Just watched Glenn Beck, and I am ready to impeach President Bush over this immigration issue and how they haven't yet pardoned those border control agents.

Hi CV...Sport and I were just

Hi CV...

Sport and I were just talking about that exact same show and subject and disgust with the President on this issue earlier...on the open thread I think it was...I know what you mean.

http://www.grassfire.org/inde

http://www.grassfire.org/index.htm

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

then scroll down to 'free Ram

then scroll down to 'free Ramos and Compean'

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

I have already have done you

I have already have done your second one bot... I did the first one though...grassfire is a great org. I belong to them too and have not been there for awhile...thanks.

Historic day

Chamberlain to Parliament was also a "historic day"

I quit voting Republican af

I quit voting Republican after we got shafted by G.H.W. Bush. I did not vote for our current president Bush in '00 or '04. Until now however, I supported him, since he is our president. But if he signs this amnesty bill, that will be the last straw. I will jump on the impeachment bandwagon with the lib's. I've got no gripes about the war, but this president's uncontrolled spending, McCain-Feingold, the multi-trillion dollar Medicare drug boondoggle and now this amnesty bill. Bush is worse than Clinton.

How stupid can these Republicans be?

Yes. This is very disappointi

Yes. This is very disappointing. Many Conservatives agree with you.

Ok, the immigration bill suck

Ok, the immigration bill sucks, and so you resort to impeachment? For WHAT?

Ok, the immigration bill suck

Ok, the immigration bill sucks, and so you resort to impeachment? For WHAT?

for what--??

Rimsky--I am going to make a lot of enemies today----I have been trying for months to get a much stronger, more active involvement of this site in the immigration issue. I was told by one of the editors (and I agree with him) that the editors and staff would probably start writing about it when there was an MSM issue about it, particularly if there was under-reporting or biassed reporting. This is what they do here and I agree.

Well --the horse is out of the barn--while you were all sitting here having duels with whichwing and other cut and run or stir-the- pot dipshits, our Senators have screwed us. I have been urging, day after day for people to get involved, I have extracted many. many newsitems and posted them and not gotten one damned response. Tough cookies, everyone. I may alienate myself, but you got what you earned. I have been in constant touch with my Senators and Congressmen about the issue. I was completely betrayed by my two Senators yesterday and they both are rated A+ in immigration issues.

Now to the impeachment issue. Our President is trying to do what every American President does--leave a legacy--this fool thinks that granting a path to citizenship for 20 million people who stole into this country will be a positive historical accomplishment. The damn fool, it will be the end of the two party system, Social Security , Medicare and ultimately the America we know and love. Why the hell WOULDN'T you impeach someone who is doing that. Please also read about the North American Union, the amero, the SPP(Security and Prosperity Partnership).

If I tried to destroy any part of the American system, you would be screaming for me to be arrested. Well____???? !

When your Federal government, by a handpicked (by GWB) US Attorney arrests and convicts two border agents and gives them the toughest sentences the law can and awards millions to the illegal who was smuggling drugs into our country-- damn it--read between the lines--it's Bush and his deal with Mexico. He is showing Mexico that he is holding up his end of  the bargain. They should have shot the bandit dead.Since when is it illegal for a Border Guard to defend our border?

The mayor of Hazleton, PA is trying to show us the way. The state of Oklahoma is trying to show us the way. The bullshit about removing the illegals as an impossible task  IS bullshit. We can do it. I have gone from a very tolerant stance about immigration to a complete anti-immigrationist within the past two months based on Bush's efforts.

This is MY country as much as his and that SOB is not going to give it away, It should be voted on. I would stand by what my fellow Americans decided not one fool who wants to give it away.

And one more big pissoff issue--when some foreigner walks down OUR streets carrying the flag of a foreign country and superior to the American flag (a violation of the American flag rules), who is responsible to control and stop this?? Can the police??? Not when they are being threatened with punishment and told to leave it to the Feds but they have to provide crowd control at American citizen  cost. Come on--it's the Bush administration that is handcuffing them. Last night on O'Reilly, a Latino advocate professed to be unhappy with the compromise because 20 MILLION PEOPLE ARE NOT ENOUGH. Wake up America, join FAIR, NUMBERSUSA and the many other organizations out there. I did. They are not extremists, they are Americans like me who believe our country will be so radically altered over the next 5 years that it will not be America to us.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!!!!

IMPEACH!!!!!!!

PS

I could go on longer and longer, but I will repeat as best I remember what one other NBer said about the "impossible" task of removing illegals.  I think--it was- "Start with one at at time" .

Now I have to go shopping with my wife, I hope , by the time I get back ther are not another million illegals across the border.

Build the fence--put them on busses--send them home!! Mexico has a 3% unemployment rate!!!! I have probably posted that about 10 times.

Our country is disappearing.

Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?  And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?

Sir  Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard

misterbill, on immigration I

misterbill, on immigration I would guess that most posters here are very aware of illegal immigration and have contacted their representatives about it...its just they [the representatives] aren't listening.

Its funny, if liberals would just stop and listen and be American for once we could actually find common ground.  They want to impeach President Bush over the war, which is of course absurd.  However, on this illegal immigraton crap and on the border guard heros being railroaded, this is impeachable, because he isn't protecting the constitution nor our country when he isn't willing to enforce our laws.  Of course getting Democrats to impeach him over illegal immigration won't happen because they like illegal immigration.  The pot is boiling, and if government doesn't regain control over their responsibilities, there will be another civil war and another war with Mexico, it will be a sad day if that happens.

V _ I'll try again--\

we are having DSL problems here today. Thanks for responding. It's just that I haven't been getting any feel and few reponses from NBers about this.

 Where’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?  And the parent that wouldn't be honored by the sacrifice?

Sir  Walter Scott & Noel Sheppard

Misterbill It's differcult at

Misterbill

It's differcult at this site since the media agrees with Bush on the issue so they report his views accurately.  I posted on open thread repeatedly on Thursday without response. 

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

More then that

It's more then that CV -- every time a person on this website posts anything regarding illegals entering this country, they are jumped on by tumbler's holier-than-thou attitude, and he attacks them for being racist. People have given up on any sort of discussion on what should happen, or should not happen, with illegal immigration because they are sick of seeing tumbler reply, calling them racist. Now, he has resorted to insulting children of posters (whether they have any, or not) on here because his position is a losing position, with no solution, just complaints.

I agree with misterbill on the issue of this immigration, and I am really upset to see that the US government is actually advocating the idea of an amnesty, no matter what they feel like calling it this time around.

Saddening... very.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Tumbler is gone

Mr Bishop, you must have missed my post yesterday.  Tumbler 2007 is now listed as "page not found"

Really?

I was not on that much yesterday... praise the Lord...

However, it really doesn't change much of what I did post. Since the removal did not come until yesterday, up until then, people did not want to post on the subject of illegals.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Exactly Mr B

Exactly, Mr B.  I've been saying that for some time, too.  

Bishop....Tumbler's gone.  B

Bishop....

Tumbler's gone.  Booted.

Now we can have a reasonable discussion on this topic without going totally off the rails. 

 Blonde, he's gone, gone, go

 Blonde, he's gone, gone, gone?  Well Adios Amigos and hope the door doesn't hit him too hard on the way out. 

terri,Yes, vamanos.  Hopeful

terri,

Yes, vamanos.  Hopefully it will stick this time.  It got really ugly on the Geraldo thread the other day.  Guess that's what did it.

It will be a welcome relief to be able to post on the topic of illegal immigration without getting all sideways.

 Blonde, yes it will.   I

 Blonde, yes it will.   I can just imagine what he had to say. 

It must be very very differcu

It must be very very differcult for Tums (sniff) but he did bring it on himself with his ad hominems and general nastiness.  He's probally reading us right now and has no outlet for his complusion.  Pray that his wife takes not the brunt of his pent up frustration

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.   

Maybe LeftWing will be next

Maybe LeftWing will be next.  I'm all for good debate with the other side, but this Troll must post his filthy "support terrorism because it's America's fault"  garbage fifty or sixty times a day.   

And yet...

And yet, he denies that he supports terrorism, even though his own words show him to do exactly that... LOL

No... I would rather WW be allowed to stay. If he could just get his head out of his butt, and stop repeating his proven garbage over and over again, we could have a decent debate. He's trying to become the king of, "I said what I said, but you can't prove it meant anything other then what I think I meant to say, no matter how much evidence you show to prove me wrong, and prove what I actually say means something other then what I think..." Pretty long title, but that seems to be what he's looking for...

However, tumbler didn't debate... On this subject, or any other subject.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

But that's the problem, Mr B

"If we could get him to stop repeating his garbage over and over"  

But that's the problem, Mr B.   He keeps repeating the same thing over and over and it seems like he must be doing it fifty times a day. 

Edit: a search for the last 24 hours puts the count at 27.

I know...

Believe me, I know. Having had to reply to his inane posts regularly on that one thread alone, I know how many times it is that he says the same thing over and over, even when it is proven false. Unlike tumbler, however, WW doesn't degrade the debate into perpetual insults. I may insult WW, and he may insult me (yes, we both have WW), but we at least, still continue to argue, rather then descend into a non-stop insult party (besides, it's not my fault that no one ever taught the boy how to read...).

The bottom line is, I may despise what he is saying, but he does have that right. It may be annoying to read all the time, but he does have that right. However... his right to say what he will, does not free him from the ability of all of us to reply with what he is. As I already told him... if he doesn't like it, evaluate his position, then change it. However -- I doubt he will actually make good on his offer to leave the site once the facts of what he said, were provided for him. I provided his own words in support of terrorist actions, and he ignores them.

While at times, I think it would be a great thing for him to get bounced from here, along with a few others, I also know that their nonsensical behavior, and their irrational thought, simply is something that cannot change. Kicking them off, won't solve the problem either. So, what do we do? Do we kick them off, to spout their nonsense somewhere else, unchallenged? Or, do we keep them on here, to spout their nonsense, but with a check of challenge and sense on our side?


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Dude... lighten up..

Agree, RJ

Agree, RJ.

I believe you were the first one here to post that Tumbler's continous illegal alien rants prevented any serious discussion of the issue.

As for WW....another deluded troll, the take-down by NL, Mr. Bishop, and others on that thread he posted is classic, IMO. 

Very true Mr. Bishop. I am

Very true Mr. Bishop. I am a bit sad that tumbler was booted, because I am sad for him. I tried to reason with him on how he can debate without being a jerk, but unfortunately he didn't listen.

You are right about WW. I disagree with him on several points, but at least he can hold his own without tumbler's venom.

Hmmmm.....

I'm going to miss Tumbler.

Ah, all done. Don't miss him anymore.    ;-)

Hey Free, After McCain's b

Hey Free,

After McCain's big cave on the Illegal Immigrant Amnesty bill, I think you ought to add him to you Shiite list, guy.

Don't miss Tumbler too much, I don't.

&%$#@! McCain

McCain is way beyond that. He should be on a Traitor list.

And If he is the GOP candidate, I will vote Libertarian, or not at all. I would vote for that Ego-maniac Newt before McCain. Guy blocked new tankers for the Air Force. &%$#@!-ing TRAITOR!! Now this AMNESTY $#!+

&%$#@!

And for those of you out there ready to say I am criticising a veteran: I thank Senator McCain for his military service, now he needs to drink a nice tall glass of STFU and then resign . . . remember that Bennedict Arnold was a hero before he was a traitor.

Free,Read my post below to mr

Free,

Read my post below to mrbill.

McCain just took himself out of the race.

He'll never be the candidate, no worries.

I suppose he's one of those men who believe they can rest on their laurels....and that he's immune from criticism.  I agree, I thank him for his service in the Navy, but now it's time for him to do a "MacArthur"  (okay, I know, wrong service) and just fade away. 

McCain-Feingold was bad enough, but he ought to be shot for conspiring with Fat Teddy on the latest.

Blonde--I do not know what has happened to--

Blonde--I do not know what has happened to--McCain. I used to be a big fan of his. It seems he started going downhill right after he bared his soul to the world about caving under torture. As if all of us would not have done the same. I think it tortures his soul. I mean no sarcasm when I say this poor soul has gone to the end of the high road for him. Quite like the President, he is trying to establish a legacy--what people will say seems to get distorted in his mind. He wants to be remembered as the Great Pacifier---that only worked in th 1800s. In todays environment one becomes the great RINO.

Ah, yes, he is Anti-Free sp

Ah, yes, he is Anti-Free speech as well.

I start frothing at the mouth and forget the laundrey list of betrayals from that jerk.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"George W. Bush simply reminds leftists everyday what they will never be. And they hate him for it." --Tammy Bruce

He is a traitor, and is more

He is a traitor, and is more vile to me than Kennedy or Clinton. If he somehow magically wins the nomination, I will no longer be a Republican. (Though with President Bush I am already on the verge of quiting the Republican party.)

I wouldn't go so far as to ca

I wouldn't go so far as to call McCain a traitor, but he's gone off the deep end. As has President Bush with this latest cave in to Popeye and Harry. The only thing left that I support in this Republican administration (oh, what a disappointment this whole thing has been) is the War on Terror. I'll support a WIN there until the bitter end. Which may be coming soon, unfortunately.

Blonde - I believe it was on O'Reilly the other night--

Blonde - I believe it was on O'Reilly the other night--the question was raised--"when was the last time you voted for someone you were really fired up about versus choosing the lesser of two evils." At first , in my mind, I poo-pooed it. Then I thought about it --the last time I was fired up was for Dutch Reagan---I did think Bush was the lesser of two evils.

 

misterbill,In my case....neve

misterbill,

In my case....never.

And if you'd like to get a great take on the lesser of two evils....read Patrick Davis, "Master & Commander" series (the Russell Crowe movie was a great adaptation, but a mish mash over numerous installations of the books).

Lesser of two weevils....too funny.

That's it, I'm out.  Glad you'll be around more now that there will be less antagonism on the boards, here.  Nite O.

<Take deep breath> ok

<Take deep breath> ok calm now, thanks Blonde for bringing me back to reality (not mad at you in case you took the deep breath was about you...my anger is towards McCain). McCain gets me fired up...he may not be a traitor in the New York Times sense, but he is a traitor to the conservative cause and to Republicans.

And you are right, President Bush is right about the war (except where home land security and illegal immigration collide), and about taxes, and has done a better job finding qualified judges then President Reagan did.

So Tumbler got the boot!

So Tumbler got the boot! I confess that he curdled the milk of kindness I have in me. I know one or two of you know that I stopped participating in entering information at various times because I got tired of him hovering in the wings and waiting for me to post. He did that with 5 or 6 people. I also confess, he brought out the worst in me. I usually approach life with an attitude of (I hope) ironic humor. I learned to do this only after years of letting a lot of things bother me.

Now- you can nail me on this one, but I am still troubled about the large number of politicians and Latino advocates who WANT more Hispanic immigrants in this country. I prefer the immigration plan that used to work so well- that is, a balance of people from various countries and continents. The part that I have the most difficulty with is the attitude of non-hispanics who feel that we should allow as many as want to come , in to the country, If anyone knows why that is, please share it with me.

 

Misterbill

Hi Misterbill, how can you tell when someone has got the boot on this board, is there a list or something?

Ooops

Sorry misterbill, just read RJ's post. Never mind:)

Shawn-- I don't know--

Shawn-- I don't know--I just found out reading this thread onight. I do know this--the folks in charge do give you a warning. That is fair. They are more tolerant than other sites, They do not boot you simply because you have an opinion that is contrary to the majority. Difference of opinion , when approached in a courteous debate fashion is stimulating and goes well here. I have been guilty a couple of times of "losing it". My subsequent apology and good behavior , (I guess), kept me from getting the boot.

misterbill

Yeah but us Liberals are just asking for it most of time:)

shawn, I for one welcome a

shawn, I for one welcome a good debate, it makes for an interesting read. But a Hannity and Colmes debate is boring...a OReilly and Geraldo debate is boring. The View is boring. Because its all about who can out shout the other guy. By all means, post your views, make your case...but if we smell that you are just a political hack, be prepared for a beating.

I do too CV. I am just

I do too CV. I am just having fun with mb, I really enjoy reading his posts. You must admit though, there are some regular conservative posters on this site that can act quite trollish in their own right. They rarely get called on it because of their Pro GOP stance.

Tumbler, Debra have been ca

Tumbler, Debra have been called on it. There are jerks on both sides certainly, and believe me, no one respects them.

Dont mean Debra or Tumbler

Never really had problem with Debra. Tumber has called me out a few times but who hasn't.? I'm talking about 2 other posters. I will not mention names but one of them would say.....Shawn you fool!!! Hmmmm guess on who that is? The other only would say something like Shawn you are a troll and you always will be, don't use your phony tripe on me.

I say I love to debate cleanly, the more sarcasm the better , bring it on. Seriously you can;t say there are people on this site who are your friends who blatantly do personal attacks, but yet you cheer them, because their victim is a troll that does not believe in what you do. Like I said use all the sarcasm you want but personal attacks are non productive

Freestinker is the guiltiest of this Anytime someone says something Liberal, he will use the Troll Allert. He is also the most impartial referee on the face of this earth. RJ 10 Shawn 0. Sorry Freesticker but it is true.:) Then every body will gang on on the troll and he loves it.