Appearing on Good Morning America today, Geraldo Rivera claimed that illegal aliens in the United States are "law abiding." Is he right?In a debate moderated by GMA co-host Diane Sawyer that began today at about 7:15 am EDT, Geraldo faced off against Glenn Beck. Rivera made a case for letting the estimated 12 million illegal aliens remain in the country.
GERALDO RIVERA: We have 12 million people who are gainfully employed; the vast majority of them are. I submit to you that these people are a vital part of the American economy. That they are doing jobs that essentially Americans don't want. Americans are fully employed. To lose these 12 million hard-working people, law-abiding, family people, socially-conservative people in many ways, I think would be a travesty.When Beck challenged Geraldo's law-abiding claim, pointing to the three illegal aliens who were among the al Qaeda-inspired terrorists planning to attack Fort Dix, Rivera retorted that the fence Beck favors wouldn't have kept them out, since they came in through JFK airport.
But let's focus on the people coming across the southern border, and consider Geraldo's claim that they are "law-abiding." Accoring to this recent NewsMax article, which in turn relies on confirmation by a former senior special agent with the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service.
- Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war. More than 15 percent of all murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the United States are committed by illegal aliens, three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population.
- Ninety-five percent of warrants for murder in Los Angeles, Calif. are for illegal aliens.
- Eighty-three percent of warrants for murder in Phoenix, Ariz. are for illegal aliens.
- Eighty-six percent of warrants for murder in Albuquerque, N.M., are for illegal aliens.
- Seventy-five percent of people on the "Most Wanted" list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
- Twenty-five percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals who are here illegally.
- Forty percent of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
- Forty-eight percent of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
ASIDE: Though brought on presumably as an anti-immigration hawk to balance Geraldo, Beck proved himself surprisingly moderate, ultimately agreeing with Rivera on the key issue of amnesty for illegals.
RIVERA: Do you stand for the legalization of the 12 million here, or not?Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net
BECK: I will absolutely talk to you about that.
RIVERA: Yes or no, Glenn.
BECK: I think so, yes, yes, I believe I am.
RIVERA: Then the rest is details.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
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Comments Policy
Illegals & The Law
May 17, 2007 - 09:13 ET by JimboWhy would anyone think that someone who willfully breaks the law to enter the country would suddenly begin obeying the law once they got here?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Good point, Jimbo. One must c
May 17, 2007 - 09:57 ET by QueenMumGood point, Jimbo. One must consider whether those who are here illegally are even aware of the laws of the land. Given that illegals must spend their lives "hiding" who they really are, most likely they feel that they're somewhere on the outskirts of American society and therefore not accountable to our laws. I recall a recent bust in Chicago where people were producing fraudulent I.D.'s. Some of those rounded up didn't feel they were breaking any laws and complained about being detained. It's as if folks want to take advantage of all that America has to offer without actually having any of the responsibilities. For most Americans, working and being "good people" won't get us a free pass on taxes, licenses, paying our medical bills, and all the other responsibilities that come with being a U.S. citizen. This is a core issue. When people immigrate legally, they engage in a process which demands that they are prepared to live as law-abiding American citizens. Those who come here illegally have no incentive to do so.
They won't, which is the bi
May 17, 2007 - 13:58 ET by StogieGuyThey won't, which is the biggest flaw of all. It's idiotic.
Guess what? We've officially all become "disinfranchised voters" - not represented by anyone. Thanks guys.
Fox News person vs CNN pers
May 17, 2007 - 09:21 ET by sarcasmoFox News person vs CNN person on ABC. Wow...Talk about cross pollination.
JMR
law-abiding illegals
May 17, 2007 - 09:21 ET by blackrain4xmasUm, isn't that an oxymoron? How deep into denial does one have to be before they describe those who commit illegal acts as legal and/or law-abiding?
Statistics are funny
May 17, 2007 - 09:39 ET by c5thenThe vast majority of the illegal immigrants to this country (80-90%) are here for economic reasons. They break the immigration laws because they need or want to get a better paying job. They break the documentation laws (drivers licenses, SS numbers, etc) because they need that info to get a job or to maintain a job. The laws that they "follow" are simply because they haven't had to choose between their economic condition and the law. In the vast majority of the cases, the economic condition wins.
The other 10-20% are here as criminals to "work" as criminals. Mostly drug trafficers, but others too. How many are potential terrorists or at least mercinaries that terrorists can use?
Also, the vast majority of the illegals do not pay income or SS or medicare taxes because of their illegal status. They do however benefit from these programs, so the burden is unfairly shifted to the legal payers.
The first thing we need to do is stop the flood comming over the border. Then we can have an adult conversation on what to do about those who are already here.
Since the fence was built in the S. CA area south of San Diego, they have seen their crime rate drop 50%. That is not a coincidence.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
Illegals
May 17, 2007 - 09:54 ET by JimboOf course most of them are here for economic reasons. They see a porous border and an opportunity to cross unchallenged and earn more money than they could in Mexico. But what we have to remember is, they are breaking the law to do it, and they know that.
So – in my opinion – maybe not all, but most of the people crossing illegally are those that are predisposition to break the law. In this case, they are doing it for money. So why should it come to anyone’s surprise, that while they are here, they break the law when another “opportunity to make money” arrives?
I’d like to know how many people in Mexico would love the opportunity to come to America but haven’t because they know that doing so would be breaking the law.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
"I’d like to know ho
May 17, 2007 - 10:09 ET by c5thenProbably almost all the rest of them who haven't come over yet.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
Also, the vast majority of th
May 17, 2007 - 10:57 ET by Voice of ReasonAlso, the vast majority of the illegals do not pay income or SS or medicare taxes because of their illegal status. They do however benefit from these programs, so the burden is unfairly shifted to the legal payers.
Just a little correction ... if they work for W2 wages with a false SS number, they do pay Income, SS, and Medicare taxes. In fact, the SS funds that they (and their employer) pay in will probably never be collected after retirement. I think that is part of the reason the government won't do anything about it. Illegals and their employers contribute a lot of funds to SS, and the government is counting on those funds to never be disbursed.
If they work "under the table" or in contractor type jobs where the income is reported on 1099 (or not reported at all), you are correct, there probably are no taxes paid, but if they work in a factory situation, those taxes are probably collected.
Please don't misunderstand my intentions with this post. I just wanted to point out what I feel is part of the reason that the gov't doesn't want to fix it. It provides millions to SS/Medicare, not to mention income taxes that probably will never be claimed on a tax return, which would most likely result in a refund and a low income tax credit if they were to file. I am not advocating for amnesty. I agree completely. The border should be tightened and fines should be handed out to employers that choose to hire illegals.
You're absolutely right VoR.
May 17, 2007 - 12:11 ET by BeowulfYou're absolutely right VoR. Those that are working under false pretenses have taxes deducted automatically, and I do understand your point. But to take this a little further, how many of the 12 million illegals fall into this category? And what is the comparison between the taxes withheld from illegals and the social monies paid out to illegals? Personally, I don't know the answer myself, but common sense dictates that there is a vast disparity between collections and payments, as one has to factor in the families of the illegals collecting social benefits as well, not even counting those working "under the table". Also, since so many illegals are working menial jobs, even those having taxes withheld are having a minimum amount or none taken out due to their income level.
I'm not contradicting you. Just taking your information another step.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
Beowulf,Great point! I am n
May 17, 2007 - 12:36 ET by Voice of ReasonBeowulf,
Great point! I am not sure about the breakdown between W2 and 1099/"under the table". That would be an interesting statistic to discover.
As for social monies paid out for illegal benefits, I think part of the problem is that the Fed gov't isn't too worried about those costs because many of the benefits that you speak about are paid for (in large part) locally (emergency rooms, schools, etc.). While I imagine some of the funds for those programs come from the Feds, hasn't primary funding for these programs been shifted mainly to state/local entities? That is where this enforcement problem comes from - the Feds aren't worried about it since someone else is having to foot the bill.
You're right, except that alt
May 17, 2007 - 14:07 ET by BeowulfYou're right, except that although the original money may come from state or local sources, states receive supplementary funding from the feds, some of which refills their coffers. And regardless of where the funding comes from, it is still taxpayer money from for-real citizens paying the expenses of people who shouldn't be here at all, let alone be receiving benefits that many Americans can't even get.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
And regardless of where the
May 17, 2007 - 14:32 ET by Voice of ReasonAnd regardless of where the funding comes from, it is still taxpayer money from for-real citizens paying the expenses of people who shouldn't be here at all, let alone be receiving benefits that many Americans can't even get.
I agree 100%. It is tax payer money that is paying for it no matter whether it is state, local, or federal funds. I just don't think the Politicians see it that way. Unfortunately, they see illegals as "potential new voters" that are worth the expense.
I just wish the idiots in Washington would quit worrying about the "potential new voters" and start worrying about the voters that put them there in the first place.
It's not just the "poten
May 17, 2007 - 15:07 ET by BeowulfIt's not just the "potential new voters" the pols are worried about. It's the current voters with illegal family members that they're worried about. And let's face it, we're talking about the Hispanic vote. How many are here legally, yet have family and friends here, or coming here, illegally? How many have illegals with them at any given time? How many want US "Mexican" territory (CA, NM, AZ, etc.) returned to Mexico? The more Mexicans here, legally or otherwise, the better. Many Hispanic leaders have made no secret of their desire to have these lands returned to their "rightful" people.
Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm not one for conspiracy theories, and much of the illegal problem is simple economics. Many come here, as they say, for better pay. The Mexican government couldn't survive without the remittance from people in the US.
But it is no secret that both Hispanic leaders here in the US and Mexican leaders have both publicly stated that they still rightfully own much of the US and that we took it and hold it illegally. And they want it back.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
RIVERA: . . . these 12 millio
May 17, 2007 - 09:43 ET by drillanwrRIVERA: . . . these 12 million hard-working people, law-abiding, family people, socially-conservative people in many ways, I think would be a travesty.
RIVERA: Do you stand for the legalization of the 12 million here, or not?
Wait ... You just said they were "law-abiding", and then you want to "legalize" them??? Geraldo, your cell phone is ringing again (See: FNC's Hannity and Colmes last night ...) and it's Rosie who wants to explain her "fire doesn't melt steel" physics.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but California prisons and jails are jam-slammed with illegals who (once they broke the law of crossing the border and being here) broke other laws on OUR books??!! (See: above list of just murders alone, for gawdsakes!!!)
Law Abiding?
May 17, 2007 - 09:57 ET by lkoturIs it logical to say that someone in this country ILLEGALLY is a "law abiding" person?
Black is white - white is black. Wrong is right - right is wrong.
Liberals!
Is it logical to say that s
May 17, 2007 - 10:09 ET by Tom1969caUnder the liberal definition of 'logical' ... yes.
~~~
"Al Gore never shuts up; it's just occasionally we have to hood him like a falcon so we can get some sleep..."Denis Miller (on Al Gore)
Gerald Michael Rivera, also k
May 17, 2007 - 10:01 ET by BeowulfGerald Michael Rivera, also known as Geraldo, has never, and will never, acknowledge his sensationalistic statements as being false. He is still hyping the "they're doing jobs Americans won't do" BS.
He said in this story that Americans are "fully employed". Our unemployment rate is currently 4.5%, which equates to 13.5 million Americans out of work. Even assuming the correct number of illegals is 12 million, and that every one of them is employed, deporting all of them and replacing them with unemployed Americans will still leave 1.5 million Americans out of work. Doesn't sound "fully employed" to me. But I guess that while 12 million illegals is a huge number (after all, there are too many to deport), 13.5 million unemployed Americans is insignificant.
He says illegals are law-abiding, yet, by their very presence, they are law-breakers. But I guess Gerry can decide which laws they can break while still being law-abiding.
Every time Gerry is confronted with crimes committed by illegals, he immediately redirects the discussion to the crime itself, not who committed it, condemning crime in general, while totally blowing-off the simple fact that if illegals weren't here, these particular crimes wouldn't have been committed in the first place.
He also completely ignores the social and economic impact illegals are having on our country. Many times, illegals have better social benefits than born-in-the-USA, hard-working Americans - free health care, free or significantly reduced tuition, etc. while for-real Americans are barely feeding their families, go without ever seeing a doctor, and can't put themselves or their children through college.
He also purposely ignores the fact of the total unfairness legalization and amnesty would have on legal immigrants.
Finally, how many know, and when has he admitted, to his mother being Jewish? Geraldo is far too busy being Hispanic to bring that little tidbit up...
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
By definition, Geraldo is bei
May 17, 2007 - 10:34 ET by QueenMumBy definition, Geraldo is being racist. By taking on the mantle of "Hispanic", he separates himself according to his ethnicity. And by using this aspect of his family background to protest the plight of illegals, he ends up in conflict with everything that it means to be an American. I find it amusing that he cultivates that stupid moustache of his. Isn't it somewhat of a stereotype?
Thanks, Beowulf. Wasn't aware of his mother's ethnicity.
@ He is still hyping the &quo
May 17, 2007 - 10:35 ET by drillanwr@ He is still hyping the "they're doing jobs Americans won't do" BS.
Yeah, those innocent "Ft. Dix Six" ... doing a job Americans won't do ...
drill: Ha! Ha! Good one.
May 17, 2007 - 10:41 ET by QueenMumdrill: Ha! Ha! Good one.
nonsense, drillanwr
May 17, 2007 - 10:53 ET by tumbler_2007It's not hype. The ordinary illegal immigrant works where ever he/she can get HIRED.
If an ordinary American gets to that jobsite before him/her, he would be hired. But they don't apply for menial work, at least not very often. That is the HONEST way of evaluating what work illegals do here.
The proof of any pudding is the eating. If Americans wanted to work in taco stands, or picking tomatoes, or digging ditches, they'd be hired every day, just as the illegal is hired. They hardly ever APPLY. Rivera tells it basically straight. Attack him from some better angle.
Your logic is flawed.If someh
May 17, 2007 - 10:58 ET by JimboYour logic is flawed.
If somehow we were able to wave a magic wand and deport every illegal, what would happen to those taco stands? Would they go out of business?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 11:09 ET by tumbler_2007. . .
IF . . . IS FOR CHILDREN
The fact is, when you apply anyplace, whether a taco stand, WalMart, picking vegetables, name it; the boss is going to hire you. Americans get hamburger flipping jobs. They work as gardeners, etc.,
But not in any vast numbers. Most are educated and qualified to apply in management, or at least work up the ladder. They'll pass on a menial job. It's just logical; that's not knocking them. But an illegal immigrant has no viable options but to accept what he/she can get. And usually he's going to work hard. Let's concentrate on the TRUTH. We know they're lawbreakers. It's not necessary to brand them as people who "steal jobs" from an American, in any large number. That's pure bull-sh.t.
Thanks Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 11:17 ET by JimboThanks.
Care to answer my question now?
Or will doing so disprove your point?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
please, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 11:24 ET by tumbler_2007What about your stupid question ?
A MAGIC WAND ! You're ridiculous, Jimmy.
Magic wands don't exist. At least taco stands exist. I'm sure they'll go on making tacos even if you build a fence forty-foot high out of BRICK. It won't help you win debates.
My only mistake was expecting
May 17, 2007 - 11:25 ET by JimboMy only mistake was expecting a rational debate from you.
My bad. I won't make the same mistake twice.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Meh
May 17, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Mr. BishopAnytime, anyone expects a rational debate from tumbler on the subject of illegals... you've already made the erroneous assumption that he can possibly debate rationally. He doesn't. He doesn't use facts, and when facts are provided for him, he ignores them. On the subject of illegal aliens specifically... he likes to talk about how they are persecuted, yet ignores their breaking of the law. He ignores that the "jobs" he speaks of, would be filled if they were not here. There is a nice unemployment rate in this country -- low, but still exists. If the illegals were not here... someone would do their jobs.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Right on Mr. Bishop. My que
May 17, 2007 - 11:34 ET by JimboRight on Mr. Bishop. My question to him was rhetorical, and could only be answered in the manner you just did. Like I said, answering it would have disproved his point, so he refused and instead chose to string words together that have no real meaning or substance. Like I said,
MY BAD!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, mr b
May 17, 2007 - 11:40 ET by tumbler_2007Nonsense--
"yet ignores their breaking of the law." REPLY: That's nonsense, or just a lie. I do not ignore such things.
"He ignores that the "jobs" he speaks of, would be filled if they were not here. There is a nice unemployment rate in this country -- low, but still exists. If the illegals were not here... someone would do their jobs." REPLY: A nice old Mexican saying-- If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. ---Yet, I accept your argument. As a personal opinion of Mr. Bishop's; not very plausible, but OK. Everybody has a right to an opinion.
When I state an opinion I'm being accused of irrationality, dementia, being loco. Nobody here thinks I have rights. But I have no qualms about bluntly saying whatever is true.
;^>
May 17, 2007 - 11:44 ET by RJ;^>
"Most are educated and q
May 17, 2007 - 11:28 ET by QueenMum"Most are educated and qualified to apply in management"
So tumbler, you are contending that there are relatively few Americans who don't qualify for more highly-skilled jobs? That there are few Americans who must take more menial positions because they are either unskilled, undereducated, or uneducated? I would contest this assertion based on personal observation alone. I'd suggest that the only difference for the illegal is the lack of proper I.D. and the language barrier.
And what about high school or college students on summer breaks? Or welfare moms? Or a senior citizen who would simply like to supplement their social security benefits in order to make ends meet? Or someone who just got out of jail and needs to establish a work history in order to move forward? Or someone who got laid off from a factory job and needs to do something to earn an income until they're able to acquire further education or training in order to find a better job? These people live in my own and surrounding communities. And in some of the surrounding communities, they are not the "few".
dear queen mum
May 17, 2007 - 11:44 ET by tumbler_2007Dear QM,
I never said those things. I only state the facts.
We are currently at about 4 and 1/2 percent unemployment. Who knows why? I guess people apply somewhere for the jobs. They're hired. I only know illegal aliens are NOT stealing jobs away from anybody. And that's a fact.
Forgive me, tumbler. I took t
May 17, 2007 - 11:54 ET by QueenMumForgive me, tumbler. I took the phrase "not in any vast numbers" to mean "few".
And I suppose that if one were to consider the use of the word "steal" as meaning to await someone outside their place of employment, murder them, and then somehow replace them without anyone knowing the difference, then I guess you'd be right that no one is "stealing" jobs.
Since you deal in "facts", can you please then provide the statistics that prove your point that illegals are doing jobs that American citizens do not want. Please also include a brief explanation of how the unemployment rate is calculated, along with statistics re: the skill levels and education of the unemloyed who are currently included or not included in the 4 1/2 percent. Thank you.
Queen
May 17, 2007 - 12:04 ET by JimboIt goes back to my taco stand analogy that he refuses to answer. If the illegals vanished tomorrow, would those businesses simply fold up and blow away? Or would they hire Americans? Of course they would hire Americans. And since that is the case, and since illegals now hold them, what is the only rational explanation?
We are straightforward with our points of view. I wish posters like Tumbler would have the same courtesy instead of trying to support their beliefs without actually coming out and saying it.
And his demanding of “truth” from other posters when he offers none of his own is becoming tiresome.
By the way – I know where you are going about your question regarding how unemployment is calculated. It’s a trap, so don’t expect him to give you a straightforward and “truthful” answer.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
you don't deserve an answer
May 17, 2007 - 14:12 ET by tumbler_2007Mum,
Answering you is like trying to stop Niagara Falls. You could likely do it with hydrogen bombs. Otherwise, don't even try.
You keep harping after you've been answered.
Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:16 ET by JimboTumbler – are you bi polar or schizophrenic or something? It seems like the personality you use to type your posts is talking about the other personality in your head screaming to get out.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Jimbo, you may have hit on
May 17, 2007 - 14:21 ET by MightyMouthJimbo, you may have hit on something! Maybe those screaming voices in his head are hundreds of Illegals wanting out!! Just pop his head open, add water and viola, enough help to pull California out of the fruit labor "shortage"!. hmmmm.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Chea Pet
May 17, 2007 - 14:23 ET by JimboKinda like an illegal immigrant Chea Pet?!?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Yeah, but with a REAL NASTY
May 17, 2007 - 14:24 ET by MightyMouthYeah, but with a REAL NASTY attitude....
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
come to your senses, jimmy
May 17, 2007 - 14:25 ET by tumbler_2007If you can't say anything good about your neighbor, just let him alone.
The subject I'm taking about is illegal immigrants; Do they accept jobs Americans don't wnt ?
I'm not the subject. Geraldo Rivera's moustache isn't the subject. Why do folks like you and the guy who hates Geraldo's moustache waste this blogsite's bandwidth posting the snippy sh.t you post ? Have you anything useful to say about the job situation of illegals ? That would make some sense here. I'm not the subject under discussion.
"If you can't say
May 17, 2007 - 14:27 ET by MightyMouth"If you can't say anything good about your neighbor, just let him alone."
By God, I just had to mark this one for prosperity....
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
clueless
May 17, 2007 - 14:30 ET by tumbler_2007Yeah, old mouth;
You're making everybody happy.
He's making me chuckle!Jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 14:31 ET by JimboHe's making me chuckle!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Ya know we love ya tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:37 ET by MightyMouthYa know we love ya tumbler (I am speaking for myself of course)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
speak something else, please
May 17, 2007 - 14:44 ET by tumbler_2007REPEAT: . . . . . . I'm not the subject. . . . Geraldo Rivera's moustache isn't the subject. Why do folks like you and the dummy who hates Geraldo's moustache waste this blogsite's bandwidth posting the dumb sh.t you post ? Get a life; tell me: Have you anything useful to say about the job situation of illegals ?
I don't love you. I think y
May 17, 2007 - 14:46 ET by JimboI don't love you. I think you are an ass. And I'm making it about you.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Yeah
May 17, 2007 - 14:50 ET by Mr. BishopYeah -- Get jobs in their own country -- that's a great solution -- but you hate that idea because you're a supporter of illegal aliens.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
I didn't say anything about
May 17, 2007 - 14:56 ET by MightyMouthI didn't say anything about his mustache (today). But to your point about wasting bandwith, would you REALLY like to get into a pissing contest about who wastes more bandwith (you or me)? I think not.
Anyhow, to answer "the point", with all the Gigabytes of "non-wasted" bandwith from you on the subject of illegal immigration, you still do not have ONE friend on the subject. You have not convinced anyone, about anything. Why do you keep trying?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Illegals shouldn't have jobs
May 17, 2007 - 14:28 ET by bigtimerIllegals shouldn't have jobs here...or be here either.
What part of that equation do you not get through your thick skull tumbster
nonsense, bigtumor
May 17, 2007 - 14:34 ET by tumbler_2007Illegals shouldn't. Illegals should. You're the sorry @ss judge of what should and shouldn't be. Why don't you run for office ? You think you're campaigning here anyway. Go & tell your dumb daughter what she should or shouldn't be doing. Be a useful grown-up.
You’re a moron. The laws
May 17, 2007 - 14:38 ET by JimboYou’re a moron. The laws of this country say it’s wrong. Inconvenient truth, I’d say.
And to call someone’s daughter dumb? Well that puts you on my lowlife scumbag list, which is where I should have put you long ago.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 14:53 ET by tumbler_2007If you can call Tumbler a moron (and you can) and she can call me a thick skull, among many other little wanks,
I can tell her to help her dumb daughter. -- Have you nothing but boredom to contribute around the Internet ? Say a few interesting words, not just "magic wand." You're mired in the Harry Potter stage, obviously. HA ! Since this isn't your blog, get out of my face; go do your homework.
Juvenile.
.
NB Staff: Tumbler has gone
May 17, 2007 - 15:16 ET by RJNB Staff: Tumbler has gone off the deep end with his aggressive and widespread attacks on posters.
Isn't it past time for you to help him find something else to do with his dotage?
Leave him be.He is known by h
May 17, 2007 - 15:27 ET by NL207Leave him be.
He is known by his obvious hypocrisy, chauvinism and bigotry. He also exemplifies the blatant disregard for the sovereignty of the United States displayed by the illegal immigrant invasion and its sympathizers. He is a testament to the wrongness of that ethos.
No
May 17, 2007 - 15:20 ET by Mr. BishopIf you want to attack bigtimer personally, that is fair game. If you want to attack RJ, Jimbo, myself or anyone else on these blogs personally... do so (ad hominem or not). However, attacking someone else's daughter, is wrong.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Tumbler - are you refering to
May 17, 2007 - 17:53 ET by JimboTumbler - are you refering to yourself in the third person???? Priceless!!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Tumbster...You either have ha
May 17, 2007 - 14:39 ET by bigtimerTumbster...
You either have had too much vino today already or you do not comprehend what you just posted above about illegals working here.
Here join this you polite man...do something useful with yourself.
http://www.libertypost.org/index.shtml
Apply yourself and moolah to a good cause.
Now you see....
May 17, 2007 - 14:42 ET by Mr. BishopThis is the true example of an ad hominem attack people... not the bastardized version a lot of other people have been spouting on here.
You don't like that people tell you that illegals should not be here. GET OVER IT! Instead of telling bigtimer to tell her dumb daughter what she should or should not do... why don't you actually look at what the illegals are doing, as being wrong. You want to start a crusade to help the illegals? Do it in their home country -- not here. This country is not the answer to their problems. They have a problem? Fix it legally -- in their own country.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
oh, Mr Biship
May 17, 2007 - 15:22 ET by tumbler_2007Stop it, Sir ! You're going to make me cry !!!!! (Sniff.)
excuse me---
May 17, 2007 - 15:23 ET by milootooleAre you an example of all the new citizens we will have??????
So, no answer then?
May 17, 2007 - 15:29 ET by Mr. BishopSo, as was stated previously, you have no answer to the problem. It's no surprise, you're a racist lying bum. Such is life. Your problem is that you think that you can't be racist because you are not white. However, you are racist -- and your constant attempts to simply excuse the illegal alien movement, is just overwhelming as retarded as you are.
You see how this works yet tumbler? My guess, that due to your holier-than-thou, limited brain capacity, is no... however, you see? I attack you personally... not your kids, not your wife, no one but you. You are a lying racist, that believes that illegal lazy Mexican bums can come into this country illegally, and do whatever they want. They f*cked up their own country tumbler... why don't you go back with them?
Are you getting this yet tumbler? You see how I simply attack and ridicule you? Do you see how I don't attack your family? The difference, however, is that what I have said about you is proven true on these blogs. You are racist (unlike whenever you call someone else on here racist), and you are a liar. Here's the most important thing of all though... it's called ignoring your ignorant @$$. I've been doing it for some time, and it's really easy to do again... just watch.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
dear bishop san
May 17, 2007 - 16:02 ET by tumbler_2007I don't really give a FIG about your silly sensibilities. Dumb daughter is a rhetorical device, if taken with good humor. I perceive you have no sense of humor, only graveetas, or some other elitist delusion of grandeur. Therefore, i ask you:
Keep your idiotic lectures and let others express an opinion. The country has NEVER depended on your wisdom. You add NOTHING whatever of substance to thes discussions. The "illegal" aspect of these matters is too well- known and digested by now to require your pontificating.
I'll inform you briefly on something I've long ago put behind me; I forgot the insult quite readily. MY WIFE, whom I adore; we just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary; was recently impugned in this very blogsite, by a ridiculous cretin who calls himself Roger the Grabber or some such BS. -- In a very wanton manner, he implied my wife is a prostitute in HIS employ. I reacted a little badly, yet I never sank to his disgusting level (he thinks he's a comedian.) Because, guess WHAT ? I have CLASS.
So, save the bloated lectures about my "daughter" remark. If I can take it, so can you idiots. YOU, Sir; have never been mistreated by me. But you're certainly asking for it. I don't need your stinking attitude, and when you call ME a racist, you haven't made me flinch or back down. I love my neighbor as Christ commands. You hate your neighbor. Every post you make about your neighbor is condescending, crude and stupid. You have ZERO love; except for your pocketbook.
Dementia tumbler...dementia i
May 17, 2007 - 16:17 ET by bigtimerDementia tumbler...dementia is setting in on you.
Seek help.
"Page not found"
May 18, 2007 - 11:27 ET by RJTumbler 2007 = "Page not found"
Whoa. You weren't kidding,
May 19, 2007 - 20:41 ET by dahliatraversWhoa. You weren't kidding, RJ.
Sorry Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:29 ET by JimboI tried to have a real, fact based, rational debate with you earlier, but you declined. So…… go mow my lawn and leave me alone.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
a mental gymnast
May 17, 2007 - 14:37 ET by tumbler_2007Jimbo came up with a zinger ! Yeah ! He's a CARD. When are you going on Jay Leno ?
Fact-based ? A MAGIC WAND. --Ha ha!
Not hard to do when dealing w
May 17, 2007 - 14:48 ET by JimboNot hard to do when dealing with you.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
a preview of NAU or thanks bushkennedy
May 17, 2007 - 14:51 ET by milootoolea preview of NAU or thanks bushkennedy
"Troops began to patrol the city. This week, they were unable to prevent the attack on Apatzingan's interim police chief, Jose Alfredo Zavala Perez, who was shot and wounded Tuesday in an ambush.
On Wednesday, shortly after being treated and released at a local hospital, Zavala Perez resigned, leaving the police force leaderless. "
NB Staff: It's time to help Tumbler find something else
May 17, 2007 - 14:52 ET by RJNB Staff: Tumbler has gone off the deep end with his widespread attacks on posters.
It's time for you to help him find something else to do with his dotage.
RJ...I second that.
May 17, 2007 - 15:04 ET by bigtimerRJ...
I second that.
See you in Hell, Tumbler!
May 17, 2007 - 15:23 ET by Dave Rbt,
I third that and then some. Calling your daughter dumb was totally uncalled for and was about ten miles beyond the last straw as far as I am concerned. The personal insults this "ambassador of goodwill" have delivered on all of us have become tiresome.
I think its high time for this troll to go.
See you in Hell, Tumbler!
Dave...What is funny is I don
May 17, 2007 - 15:27 ET by bigtimerDave...
What is funny is I don't have a daughter...do not know where that even came from.
Like I said, I think his tumbler was over-flowing today with his vino.
He is always rude anymore and doesn't even remember what he posted himself.
May be dementia setting in.
I don't have a daughter..Ye
May 17, 2007 - 15:36 ET by Dave RI don't have a daughter..
Yeah, bt, but t*****r didn't know that when he said it!
May be dementia setting in.
Maybe he should get an Alzheimer's test. He does exhibit the symptoms at times.
QueenMum, since tumbler won't
May 17, 2007 - 21:15 ET by MikeBQueenMum, since tumbler won't answer your question about the calculation of unemployment rates, I will. "Unemployed" is defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics as "not working, but looking for work". Thus, a 20 year old who dropped out of school in 6th grade, and is therefore unemployable, is not counted as "unemployed". There are, therefore, millions of teenagers and older, who are physically capable of doing work but, due to their own stupidity, and/or the failure of the public school system, are psychologically and educationally unfit for the labor pool. And why should they be? The liberals have found that everyone is "entitled" to food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. Even if they do nothing to contribute to society, society is required to provide for them, even if the producers are deprived of the above listed benefits. The libs also insure that there will be an ever larger pool of unemployables by continuing to raise the minimum wage to levels that price the unqualified or minimally qualified right out of the job market. These societal parasites will, of course, vote for liberals because the parasites are dependent on the liberals for those benefits.
Here is an interesting historical footnote: the Jamestown colony was on the verge of failure until John Smith was elected governor of the colony. He instituted a policy of "if you don't work, you don't eat." Those in the colony who wished to be parasites on the productivity of others either died or got off their *sses and contributed to the welfare of the colony. Do you think that just maybe...?
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
It is hype.Have you ever done
May 17, 2007 - 14:52 ET by well99It is hype.Have you ever done day labor?I have and news flash a illegal will get the job over a American.Not all the time but it happens often enough.Also your examples are dem talking points.The ordinary illegal is not just in the fields working.They are at processing plants,mills,construction sites.They have kept wages down.A friend and a neighbor worked at Swifts and wages went from 19 to 10 a hour.This was long before any raids.That wont matter to folks like you because people that break a sweat working are beneath you.Just a note there are no menial jobs.Work is work.As long as it pays the rent who cares.
Dude, it's like this:A citize
May 17, 2007 - 18:41 ET by UndercoverConservativeDude, it's like this:
A citizen will have to be paid aboveboard, he'll get SSI and all sorts of taxes taken out of his wage. He's going to expect state or federal minimum wage. he's going to expect the work site to be following OSHA regs.
When he gets home, he has to pay his rent, since in the real world, a man doesn't get housing benefits, unless he's married and has children-and even then would be lucky to qualify for Section 8 waiting list. He buys groceries at the store and pays (here in CA) obscene sales taxes.
His minimum wage doesn't go very far.
Now we take an illegal in CA. He shows up at the job site (or outside Home Depot or the 7-eleven down the street) and is told what the pay for the day will be. he competes with other illegals for who looks big and strong, who's worked for this contractor before, and who will do the work for slave wages. He doesn't know or care about OSHA regs. Hiring him at illegal cheap wages means a site saves an absolute fortune by this mutual exploitation.
He comes home and stays with an "anchor" who's a legal (usually an amnesty case from previous reforms) and pays cash to this anchor. he rooms with a half dozen other men in a place designed and zoned for a single family. Note that the anchor family usually also has their children here, and often the anchor is the woman-her children's father may or may not be listed on the lease.
he buys groceries from other sympathizers from "farmer's markets" and trucks along the street and markets within the "hispanic community" where everything is cash and no taxes are paid. He often applies for "emergency aid" food stamps. If he knocks up a local girl, she claims to not know who the father is, and gets housing, EBT cash benefits, housing, health care, the works. (Better health care than the government workers that provide it, BTW).
His car is purchased from the side of the road, on a side street where lots of used cars are, between police raids. There's a guy who sits and watches who runs this illegal "used car lot". The car is never registered. Tabs if any are stolen from a victims car and placed on, or fake temporary placards taped up (Ive bought cars that have been unregistered through five owners). No insurance, and often no driver's training. Accidents find the car abandoned as the guy runs off.
he does pay tax on gasoline, at least. Too bad the car is never smogged nor does he care or even know about the law.
It's not the jobs citizens dont want to do, it's the jobs illegal immigration makes it so they can't *afford* to do. And when you amnesty all these 12 million, you think suddenly they're still going to be attractive hires? Or they suddenly don't get jobs because they're too expensive-and the next load of illegals becomes the exploited. And off to welfare for these new 12 million souls-voters all dependent on the hand that feeds them, electing whomever promises to give them more, not caring where it comes from or who pays.
Now back to our illegal Mexican friend shall we?
Since almost all his slave wage is left over, he goes to a check cashing place and sends a few hundred home to his (other) wife and children each week thru Western Union (how many billion do they admit to sending south of the border, where the Mexican government taxes a nice huge chunk for themselves?) which with the Mexican economy where it is, the American dollars left over go a long way to paying off that little ranch down south. Now because he's bored and often uneducated, packed in with other Mexicans he dislikes, he ends up drinking a lot and with his half dozen roomates makes the neighborhood unliveable with late night parties, early parties, fights, abused wives and children,glass bottles everywhere, and the occasional drunken car accident.
And these are the guys who try to work. And before anyone goes off about stereotypes, let me warn you: these are what I've witnessed, lived through, and deal with as my job in social services. This is the reality of the issue, not the sugar coated propaganda of the mexiphiliacs and the reconquistas.
Nicely stated.Can't wait unti
May 17, 2007 - 18:53 ET by BlondeNicely stated.
Can't wait until the illegal alien apologist tries to take your post down. That will be amusing.
There are a few easy steps
May 17, 2007 - 10:02 ET by jiminjerseyThere are a few easy steps that if taken would sharply reduce the influx.
First, stop providing their children with schooling. Second, make English the official language of the USA and stop rpinting forms in anything except English. Third, don't provide anyone who does not have a SS# with any form of SS or medicare benefits, no healthcare, nothing. Fourth, create a law that makes it mandatory for you to be a citizen to hold a US bank account. Tax all non-bank transfers to a foreign country at 50%. Finally impose a $15K per occurence penalty for employing someone who is here illegally.
nonsense, jiminjersey
May 17, 2007 - 14:18 ET by tumbler_2007You talk a good game, but you lose every time.
What you're suggesting is a totalitarian state. Please; with all due respect. How old are you ? I calculate by these inane ideas of yours you must be about eleven years old. Take a long look at what you've posted and tell us how an American comes to think in these terms. Aren't we in the Land of the Free? Is it LIBERTY we represent to the world, or YOUR kind of society ?
Don’t worry JiminJersey.
May 17, 2007 - 14:21 ET by JimboDon’t worry JiminJersey. Losing in Tumbler’s mind is a win in everyone else’s.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
This makes the rounds of th
May 17, 2007 - 10:27 ET by Tom1969caThis makes the rounds of the internet from time-to-time, but it's worth quoting in full in this context - so, taking a page from Rush's "illustrating absurdity by being absurd..."
~~~
"Al Gore never shuts up; it's just occasionally we have to hood him like a falcon so we can get some sleep..."Denis Miller (on Al Gore)
Tom: I wonder if Geraldo has
May 17, 2007 - 10:37 ET by QueenMumTom: I wonder if Geraldo has ever been challenged to answer to this. My guess is that he would sigh deeply and say that it's a ridiculous comparison.
Lawbreaking
May 17, 2007 - 10:41 ET by iveseenitallTo Jerry and his ilk, steeped in relativism, breaking the law is o.k. as long as you have a "good reason". And who determines that? Sadly, we are a nation of laws no longer. Check the history books; this is the first step toward anarchy and ultimate decay.
NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal
forget about Geraldo
May 17, 2007 - 11:16 ET by tumbler_2007It makes little difference if Geraldo's right or wrong. The law was NOT repealed after he spoke out this way.
I figure we just enforce it. --Don't bleat on about anarchy and decay. That's the rhetoric of pedagogues. You make yourself sound like Al Gore.
I find it interesting how you
May 17, 2007 - 11:20 ET by JimboI find it interesting how your posts are usually geared by telling us how we should or should not think, as opposed to offering any real counterpoints. Kind of like the MSM.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
already suggested something:
May 17, 2007 - 11:26 ET by tumbler_2007Didn't you see my suggestions ?
Tell the TRUTH.
My mother always told me not
May 17, 2007 - 11:28 ET by JimboMy mother always told me not to use words if you don't know what they mean. Seems to fit nicely here.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
dear tom
May 17, 2007 - 10:43 ET by tumbler_2007Why would you suggest you're foiling Geraldo's logic simply by posting these false premises ? To rebut somebody you have to try with a truthful kind of logic, not a faulty premise right at the beginning of your effort.
We are not dealing with people who broke into our house ! No illegal alien is guilty of wanting YOUR property. Or your money, or job, or anything. For the few who have been caught using fake or stolen IDs, the solution is simple enough: put them in prison for fraud and/or whatever illegal thing they're found guilty of.
But by & large, you're barking up the wrong tree posting false premises or analogies in order to discredit illegals. These are dumb things done by the Democrat pundit and politician, not by a thinking conservative. You heard how they claim Republicans don't tax the rich; or they'll starve children, or they plan to destroy our freedom. They build on such false statements, and the media corroborates them. This is dishonest. Don't be caught using those tactics here. Be honest !
duh. Breaking into your ho
May 17, 2007 - 10:58 ET by jiminjerseyduh. Breaking into your house is akin to breaking into this country.
Yeah, duh.
May 17, 2007 - 11:11 ET by tumbler_2007Breaking into your house is akin to breaking into this country.
Duh; You're exhibiting real signs of lunacy.
The first sign of intelligenc
May 17, 2007 - 11:46 ET by Roger the ShrubberThe first sign of intelligence from El Guapo today: he said "duh". Pretty much sums up the content of El Guapo's knee-jerk pro-illegal rantings today. Duh.
You guys are wasting your time on Ricky Retardo here.
In the meantime, here is a story (from a Turkish paper, no less, albeit via AP) about how tax dollars being used to fight the nutjob groups that El Guapo no doubt contributes to. But hey, let's not ruin El Guapo's fantasy world by bringing up the billions of dollars legal citizens like me have to spend to support his muchachos.
tumbler: So much nonsense; so
May 17, 2007 - 11:14 ET by QueenMumtumbler: So much nonsense; so little time.
America is MY property. The money I pay in taxes is MY money. And if I don't yet have the skills or education to do better and must work as a hotel maid, then the illegal who agrees to work for less is taking MY job.
"For the few who have been caught using fake or stolen I.D.s ... put them in prison"
I like that you made sure to use the word "caught". Those who haven't been "caught" may continue to work and obtain whatever benefits they can with someone else's identity? The "few" that get caught are just S.O.L? I say that a concerted effort to "catch" those who are using false I.D. will result in more than just a "few" illegals being locked up. In order to function in American society, the illegal is almost forced to break the law by obtaining false identification or lying about their status. So, the idea that there is a majority of illegals in the U.S. whose only "crime" is entering the country illegally, seems naive.
And finally, the phrase "in order to discredit illegals" is just plain humorous.
Carry on, my wayward son.
queen of soap boxes
May 17, 2007 - 11:20 ET by tumbler_2007Stop lecturing. You know perfectly well nobody's stealing "your" country. If you must mouth off about your dislike for foreigners on YOUR property, at least tell the truth. Don't fall back on hypothetical BS, it can't win for you.
The truth shall set you free, Mum.
/
46 words without saying anyth
May 17, 2007 - 11:23 ET by Jimbo46 words without saying anything. Good job.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
And stop being a brat, tumble
May 17, 2007 - 11:40 ET by QueenMumAnd stop being a brat, tumbler. I have no problem with "foreigners". I come from a family of "foreigners". I have a problem with "illegals". Get your terms straight.
As far as the truth is concerned, I'd suggest you follow your own advice. Let's not get all emotional.
It's astounds me how hard y
May 17, 2007 - 12:03 ET by StogieGuyIt's astounds me how hard you work to NOT get it! I cannot imagine how you can continue to defend a position that clearly defies logic. What "truth" is it that is supposed to set us free?
Not only are the illegal aliens breaking the law, the proposed amnesty legislation is a slap in the face to the millions of LEGAL immigrants who have had to put up with a horibly inefficient and unfriendly process to live here legally. They spend the money, they submit the forms and they abide by the law. They pass health checks and submit their criminal records for approval. They work hard. Those are the people who we want here - not lawbreakers.
[to all]
A classic liberal ploy is to quickly toss out the word "illegal" and lump all immigrants together. And, many of the advocates of law and order become victims of this and end up being made to look bad.
For the most part, the legal immigrants are the 'law-abiding hard workers' that are referred to in these various arguments. As long as the libs can lump them together with illegals, they can try to use the spectre of racism as a weapon to defend an intellectually bankrupt point of view.
One reason why legal immigrants don't protest this stuff is that they are brainwashed by the socialists who work at such Spanish language outfits as Univision and Telemundo (I wish NB would monitor those!). They also use this ploy to make this an 'us versus them' issue. That way, they get the legal residents of hispanic descent on the side of the illegals. This despite the fact that the legals are the biggest victims of all. In fact, the Spanish language newscasts center on this issue and drum it home almost every single day. They NEVER give the whole story.
By the way, the streets of cities like Philadelphia and Detroit are full of Americans who would love to have a job doing menial tasks like landscaping. Trouble is, they expect to make at least the minimum wage. Not $3/hour under the table. They know better. So, in essence, liberals support a form of slavery. Sadly, our President seems to as well. I wish he would wake up.
You make some excellent point
May 17, 2007 - 14:42 ET by QueenMumYou make some excellent points, Stogie. Particularly, the comment re: the under-the-table wages.
nonsense, stogieguy
May 17, 2007 - 15:11 ET by tumbler_2007I think you're confused. I GET IT perfectly well.
This is one of those events in life that just leaves you shaking your head. It's called a fait accompli, achieved by people who reached up & grabbed the brass ring of life. The ones receiving this big break are here illegally, no question. (I get it.) They should've all been deported. (I get it.)
It's NOT a feasible solution when we have 12 million or more families to round up. Logistically it's much easier to colonize Mars (I get it.) We wouldn't be nearly able to cart them all off; and later on at least half of them would just return (illegally.) These are the cold hard factoids. The pragmatic thing we have left to do is exactly what's being done. And we'll have an enormous upside to this story. Our fine country will add many millions of new, loyal and hard-working Americans. Not this underground sub-group, as these folks now exist. FINE, LOYAL, DECENT AMERICANS !
The fine, loyal, decent Ame
May 17, 2007 - 15:27 ET by StogieGuyThe fine, loyal, decent Americans came here legally! Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
This bill takes the wrong approach. Close the border (tight) and pinch the employers (hard). You know, the gov't KNOWS who has SS numbers that "don't match" their owners. Over 7 million of them. Little by little, the employers that are ID'd as having employees with such numbers can be questioned and the scofflaws ousted. And, little by little, with no jobs the illegals will leave. And, those who don't leave must be shown the door. Get out and stay out!
This business of "the 12 million CAN'T be deported" is nonsense. Squeeze them out by attrition and deport the rest when discovered.
This is a sad day for our country and its making me regret my votes in 2000 and 2004. At least there is one thing that my liberal creep friend and I can agree on - how much damage Bush has done to our country.
One last thing: what other country on the face of the earth has so little respect for its own soverignty? At this point, I can't think of one. Certainly not Mexico. Just try to sneak in there illegally. See what happens.....
"This is a sad day for our country"
May 17, 2007 - 15:36 ET by milootoole"This is a sad day for our country and its making me regret my votes in 2000 and 2004"
I feel violated. Bush has tirned out to be a giant disappointment. I notice a lot of people at NewsBusters support him on Iraq and so do I. As to all other things, immigration, amero, mexitrux, etc. I am not at all with him.
I hope Neut Gingrich or Fred Thomson runs for the Republicans.
Easy one
May 17, 2007 - 15:36 ET by Mr. BishopIt's easy StogieGuy. You haven't been on here long enough to know -- tumbler is a racist, who believes that illegals should be allowed to come and go in this country, as they see fit. Tumbler believes, that only through the United States opening its borders, to the massive influx of the decay of western society, will we somehow be a whole country... even as they rip apart the United States with their insistance of teaching everything in English and Spanish, as well as flying the Mexican flag. Tumbler doesn't believe that since they f*cked up their own country, they should have to clean it up themselves. No... tumbler thinks the United States should take care of them. Sympathy is found between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary tumbler... play in all three on your own.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
dear stogieguy
May 17, 2007 - 15:40 ET by tumbler_2007Well . . . I was somehow thinking you were of sound mind. I see now; you're only motivated by hatred and selfishness.
I feel sorry for you, Guy.
Spoken like a true liberal, Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 15:44 ET by RJSpoken like a true liberal moral relativist.
The jerk proves us right ever
May 17, 2007 - 17:59 ET by JimboThe jerk proves us right every time he posts, and doesn't even realize it.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Wow, only 3 or 4 posts and
May 18, 2007 - 08:17 ET by StogieGuyWow, only 3 or 4 posts and - after running out of talking points - you resort to the liberal mantra of referring to my position as involving "hatred"! And, "selfishness". If caring about what sort of country my kids will live in 20 years from now is selfishness - then I'm guilty of that. At least I am not motivated by stupidity.
You know absolutely nothing about me, have managed to side-step the various points I've made to substantiate my opinion on this, and have generally proven that you have no defense for your dangerous position. Well, at least you didn't call me a racist (yet). Typical lib.
Guess what? You lose.
I admire your moxy.Here you l
May 17, 2007 - 17:12 ET by well99I admire your moxy Tumbler.Here you lie all the time and you tell others to use the truth.Your truth is distorted to your view.You remind me of a fertilizer salesman.Problem is no one is buying your **** .If you want to debate people fine.Give a view but if you want to run off at the mouth then your just someone talking smack.So do you work for moveon.org?
Hate to break it to you Tumbl
May 17, 2007 - 12:29 ET by BeowulfHate to break it to you Tumble-weed, but this is a picture perfect analogy to illegals:
Break into your house = illegally entering our country
Make the beds, wash the dishes, etc = doing jobs Americans "don't want to do"
Hard working and honest, except for breaking into your house = same line concerning their illegal entry into the US
"not only must you let me stay, = Since they're already here, we should let them stay
you must add me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide other benefits to me and my family = We should pay for their medical expenses, education, and provide welfare and retirement (social security).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my illegal right to be there" = the comparison is self-explanatory.
Now, I know I'm probably wasting my time taking you through this by the hand like this, but if you truly have more than two brain cells rubbing against each other, you can't deny that this is a very apt analogy.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
"Now, I know I'm proba
May 17, 2007 - 13:38 ET by ckc1227"Now, I know I'm probably wasting my time taking you through this by the
hand like this, but if you truly have more than two brain cells rubbing
against each other, you can't deny that this is a very apt analogy."
sTumbler has brain cells? I guess it could be true. I mean, how else could he come up with the nonsense he spews here on the subject of illegals? There has to be some brain function there to fuel that incredible imagination of his. Still, I think 2 brain cells is pushing it.
ckc...Definitely pushing it..
May 17, 2007 - 13:47 ET by bigtimerckc...
Definitely pushing it...lol!
ARPG"Automatic Random
May 17, 2007 - 13:52 ET by MightyMouthARPG
"Automatic Random Post Generator"
Like hundereds of burros stomping on keyboards.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
nonsense, beowulf
May 17, 2007 - 15:36 ET by tumbler_2007You are a closed mind, Beow.
No illegal immigrant has any wish to take your house away. Or your wife. Or car or property. They only want what they can afford to buy, by getting a job. All the other crap you're dishing here is a figment of your envious imagination. What you're saying here reminds me of Hamas, or al Qaeda.
They hate Israel. Even if they HAVE all they wish to have, they still want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. You just don't want Mexicans around. They don't want Israel around. It's called hatred.
You won't even KNOW the new American citizens have gone to work every morning, legally. They'll add nothing to our traffic (they already did that) or take food off your table. You will still buy nice clothes, wine and groceries.
You'll still have your car or SUV or both. Your kids will go to college. You'll take vacations in Hawaii. NOTHING will change, except the new immigration situation. More enforcement. Same deportations. We'll all be back to normal. R J and a few other bigots will gnash their teeth for a few months. Then they'll drop it. Maybe they'll even realize what alarmist fools they've been. Don't be closed-minded my friend.
Do you, in even the simplest
May 18, 2007 - 10:35 ET by BeowulfDo you, in even the simplest terms, understand what an "analogy" is? No one here is even remotely saying that illegals are actually taking our house or car. And how the hell do you equate wanting illegal entry into our country halted with the terrorism and murdering of Islamofacists? Are you truly this dense or is this just a trolling method?
And if you think I'm envious of the life of an illegal alien, you really are dense. I have spent literally decades, through my own hard work and initiative, making a relatively comfortable life for my family, without ever asking the government for help. I made the life I have through my own merit. And I did it all LEGALLY.
I have no hate towards illegals. I just want our laws enforced. ALL OF THEM. Why do people like you selectively excuse law breaking?
Let me make this as simple as possible:
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO ENTER THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY (duh).
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO WORK IN THIS COUTRY WITHOUT PROPER, LEGITIMATE DOCUMENTATION.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO USE ANOTHER PERSON'S, OR FALSE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER TO OBTAIN WORK OR SOCIAL BENEFITS.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO HIRE PEOPLE WITHOUT THE PROPER DOCUMENTATION.
IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO DRIVE A MOTOR VEHICLE WITHOUT A VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE.
Basically, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO BREAK THE LAW.
Is that simple enough for you? No hate. No rhetoric. No analogies.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
I get the gist of your argume
May 18, 2007 - 08:33 ET by Sergeant ROCKI get the gist of your argument, however your statement that "No illegal alien is guilty of wanting YOUR property. Or your money..." is false. Unless you are suggesting that there are currently zero illegal aliens in our jails for theft and/or robbery?
I listened to Glenn Beck this
May 17, 2007 - 11:52 ET by daveinbocaI listened to Glenn Beck this morning and he is having a serious attack of RINO-itis. The fellow suffers from the same problem as the Bush Family---wanting to be liked.
Rivera makes FoxNEWS less accurate and more imbalanced. The MSM and the ultra left are going to do EVERY POSSIBLE thing legally and under the table to make sure conservative thinking is not allowed on the airwaves or satellite dishes. FOX and the talk-shows will be squashed if a Democrat becomes president in 2008---no matter if Glenn makes nicey or not.
stopped watching Fox
May 17, 2007 - 11:56 ET by milootoolestopped watching Fox--when they added Rivera and started pandering to Sharpton.
Now Glenn Beck sells out to Rivera. Will it ever end?
Nothing new with this bleedin
May 17, 2007 - 12:01 ET by bigtimerNothing new with this bleeding heart leftist Geraldo, I turn the channel when I see his face most times, if I can get to the clicker fast enough that is.
This may be what we get come Monday after the Senate votes...if they still do.
http://www.redstate.com/stories/featured_stories/immigration_deal_would_grant_amnesty_to_parents
Giving amnesty to illegals discriminates against legal applicant
May 17, 2007 - 12:14 ET by RJGiving amnesty to illegals discriminates against legal applicants.
And the proposed bill (which is a cave-in to Kennedy) will discriminate much more that most Americans realize:
Giving amnesty to illegals discriminates against legal applicant
1 Illegal Alien + 1 father + 1 mother + one wife + 2 kid + 1 wife's father + 1 wife's mother. Then when mother/father + in-laws are naturalized, 2 kids of each.
Total: 1 illegal alien. 11 extended family. Assuming only two kids per family in the good Catholic country of Mexico.
Grand total: currently 12 million illegal aliens. Potential new Americans, 12 million illegals, 132 million family. Give or take a few.
Hi RJ,I was glad I stumbled o
May 17, 2007 - 12:22 ET by bigtimerHi RJ,
I was glad I stumbled on the link I posted this morning when having coffee before going to work, it pretty much explains it all and sums it up.
Just love the 'Z' card stuff too.
You summed it up yourself with numbers very succinctly...
People aren't just scared of this scenario....they are furious.
I pray someone runs on this issue as a number one priority, they will win...big- time...this is why I love Hunter and Tancredo, I will wait and see if Thompson is much more forceful than he has been about this all.
*Sigh*
Hi BT. Check the poll that was just posted
May 17, 2007 - 12:26 ET by RJHi BT. Check the poll that was just posted. This bill pretty much ignores the will of the American people.
RJ,It may be obvious....but w
May 17, 2007 - 12:39 ET by bigtimerRJ,
It may be obvious....but what poll just posted, where?
Here's the poll, BT
May 17, 2007 - 12:48 ET by RJHere's the poll thread, BT. Sorry. It came up in a comment. I haven't checked, but it may be in a Forum.
http://newsbusters.org/node/12813#comment-342173
Thanks RJ.That was a very int
May 17, 2007 - 13:24 ET by bigtimerThanks RJ.
That was a very interesting poll too...especially with 54% very liberal and another 5% being liberal.
Seems to me we all as a majority agree on this illegal immigration and a SEALED BORDER among other questions regarding illegal immigration in that poll.
Politicians really do not get it...period...(with some exceptions of course)
if it's lawful
May 17, 2007 - 14:59 ET by tumbler_2007Hi, R J BS
If this is made lawful; what could be sweeter ? We'll be adding to the roll of tax-payers. We'll have helped the needy. You'll still have your freedom, and so will I.
What's not to like ? OH; you're unhappy with the law ? Cheer up. Better times are coming. You'll have that new job in TV, playing a caveman; look at the upside. I'm wishing you great success, Pal !
Giving amnesty to illegals is stealing
May 17, 2007 - 15:07 ET by RJGiving amnesty to illegals is discrimination. It is stealing opportunity from others. Advocating for it is immoral.
nonsense, r j
May 17, 2007 - 15:19 ET by tumbler_2007It's immoral not to love thy neighbor. Love covers a multitude of sins.
When you took your present job, you denied another man his opportunity. You did it legally. But he would've been a vastly better caveman than you. Poor slob -- ;^> . . .
Liberal moral relavitism, Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 15:24 ET by RJIn your example of liberal moral relavitism, Tumbler, I wouldn't have broken the law to get an advantage. In fact, ALL of your arguments for illegal aliens amount to liberal moral relavitism. As I said in my first post to you, you argue exactly like a liberal.
------------------
NB Staff: Tumbler has gone off the deep end with his aggressive and widespread attacks on posters. Isn't it past time for you to help him find something else to do with his dotage?
TumblerCareful now, you are
May 17, 2007 - 16:13 ET by ScottyDogTumbler
Careful now, you are revising your usual racist rants with love thy neighbor.
I frankly cannot believe the racist crap you spew out here on Illegal Aliens here on this forum. Only Geraldo Riviera can top you in that regard.
Is this Mexico or the USA
careful yourself, doggie
May 17, 2007 - 16:25 ET by tumbler_2007I never made any racial slur at anybody. Whoever says so is a liar. I don't spew, I speak; you spew.
I do love my neighbor. I never spoke against our immigration statutes or deportation. I even advocated prison terms for repeat violaters. I only spoke out against the boondoggle waste of tax dollars a FENCE is. --I also denounced LIES and hate-speech against any ethnic minority. (Something YOU frequently practice.)
You call me a racist only because you ARE a racist. It's your way of smearing me, since I crossed you at the very start. You are one of those Bozos who doesn't like to be corrected. Revise that, bigot boy.
That's funny, remebering, on
May 17, 2007 - 18:27 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat's funny, remebering, on more than one occasion, you using slurs to refer to Koreans and Asians.
But hey, I realize you are old and probably cannot remember if you wiped your a$$ today, so don't let me hold you back from being a self-righteous hypocritical douchebag.
It's NOT the law WW. And it's
May 17, 2007 - 15:19 ET by BeowulfIt's NOT the law WW. And it's AGAINST the wishes of the majority of Americans. You know - those people whom the politicians are supposed to listen to and represent? We'll see if it passes, and if it does, how long it stands. Laws can be revoked, you know?
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
stop it, beow
May 17, 2007 - 16:34 ET by tumbler_2007If it's the majority of Americans' will, how ya going to prove it ? Losing another election with the constant harping and wheezing about the "dangers" of illegal immigration, as was done by our congressmen in their last election fiasco ?
It's only a majority when you win those disputes. Our side LOST; the others are in the majority. And it's not my doing; I warned NewsBusters it was sure to happen. Our insistence on hate rhetoric and lying about them alienated all hispanic voters. Voters who are culturally and socially more conservative than Brent Bozell himself. Now you want to say Americans are all on the side of our losers of the 006 mid-term election ? JOKE!
Carlin's solution
May 17, 2007 - 12:09 ET by milootooleSubject: George Carlins Solution to saving gasoline
Ya gotta love George!
George Carlin's Solution to Save Gasoline:
Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas we use. The best way to stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants!
That would be 11 million less people using our gas. The price of gas would come down.
Bring our troops home from Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq. Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the military.
Give him a soldier's pay while he's there and tax him on it.
After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended this country.
He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal patriot.
This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better life for themselves.
If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway, without the canteen, rifle or ammo.
Problem solved.
re:amnesty --please read---
May 17, 2007 - 12:17 ET by milootooleFrom NumbersUSA.com ---------
Many Senators are telling staffers and other Senators that they are inclined to vote for the giant Kennedy/Bush amnesty bill (S. 1348) next week because they say they have been surprised at how few phone calls of protest they've gotten during the last two months of highly-publicized negotiations to create the amnesty.
They are concluding that the citizens of their states just aren't all that worked up about granting an amnesty. And they're interpreting that as a green light to give corporations the huge new supplies of legal foreign labor they desire.
Hi milo...That is exactly why
May 17, 2007 - 12:30 ET by bigtimerHi milo...
That is exactly why they are having the vote on a Monday afternoon, which is rare. So the people will not call or email in numbers...this is right after the week-end....I am furious about this sneaky vote.
Here is a great site to help out with our support if anyone wants to at all, in fact the gentleman that was on the Washington Journal this morning has a link on the right hand side about the show today...hope some of you do take a look at this. A lot of information in this all.
http://www.libertypost.org/index.shtml
"That is exactly why t
May 17, 2007 - 13:30 ET by ckc1227"That is exactly why they are having the vote on a Monday afternoon,
which is rare. So the people will not call or email in numbers...this
is right after the week-end....I am furious about this sneaky vote."
LOL, that's nothing. Wait until they sneak in a voucher system to help pay the fine that is in the legislation currently being debated, which means the illegals won't be paying anything at all. Instead, it will be bankrolled by the good ol' American sucker, errr, citizen.
Enjoy it while you can, folks, because your country is being taken away from you. I hope that deep down inside you always wanted to live in a Latino country, because you're about to, whether you like it or not.
In another decade or so, whites will be the minority in this country.
How right you are. It's he
May 17, 2007 - 13:55 ET by StogieGuyHow right you are. It's headed that way - and fast. Much too fast for our society to digest. Remember that, when things like that happen, the newcomers bring all of their old problems with them. As a frequent traveler to Latin America, I can tell you that Mexico is a country with some of the worst overall cultural issues to deal with. Crime, corruption, filth - Mexico has it all. And, much worse than...say, Panama, Costa Rica or Chile. That's why they all come here. Because it's nasty. Not to mention that we are the recipients of many of Latin America's worst troublemakers. Which is why Mexico is fighting so hard for them to stay here. Their loss is also their gain!!
Yet we foolishly sit by while parts of the USA are converted into the same corrupt cultural model. All of these idiots in Washington should be required to take a trip to the suburbs to the south and east of downtown LA. Maybe that would scare them straight.
The ink has barely dried on the latest census stats and Drudge has a link to it. It's sobering stuff - the invasion is well underway.
Here is a number I called today--re amnesty
May 17, 2007 - 15:14 ET by milootoole202-224-3121
It got me to an operator--I asked for my Senator--got an aide--told him I was opposed --strongly--. He told me they wrere getting a lot of calls. Try it, it may niot be too late.. aslo try ti Monday AM if you strike out today.
I called both of my Senators
May 18, 2007 - 15:36 ET by MikeBI called both of my Senators today (Friday). The vote Monday is on whether or not to consider the bill. Senator Coburn's office said that the bill in its complete language has not even been distributed to the Senators yet. So, we all have time to call, write, fax, or e-mail our Senators asking that they oppose any form of amnesty such as the z-visa.
By the way, you'll have to call your Senator's local office, or his/her Capitol office, but the number milo gave, the switchboard did not answer. Maybe a long weekend for the D. C. workerbees.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Here is a number I called today--re amnesty
May 17, 2007 - 15:14 ET by milootoole202-224-3121
It got me to an operator--I asked for my Senator--got an aide--told him I was opposed --strongly--. He told me they wrere getting a lot of calls. Try it, it may niot be too late.. aslo try ti Monday AM if you strike out today.
Law-abiding? Oh really, then
May 17, 2007 - 16:38 ET by msh1973Law-abiding? Oh really, then why are our jails over crowded, why are DUI's up here in my county (Florida)? This is making me so crazy. Every one I know is hopping mad about the illegals here in Florida. I work in the Dependence Court and you just wouldn't believe how over burdened all the case manager have become. Every day we have to get an interpreter to speak with the parents.
Illegal Immigration = Slavery
May 17, 2007 - 18:17 ET by Conservative VoiceIf you support illegal immigration then you are no different from the slave traders before the civil war. The whole premise that you need poor people to make the economy function. The only difference is the slaves are willing to enter into slavery, because being an American Slave is better than being a Mexican Peasant.
Here is my solution to illegal immigration. First and foremost build the fence, secure the fence, and give those border agents a pardon. We are at war with Mexico, only we aren't allowed to fight back. We should be able to defend our border like we can defend our homes without having to explain ourselves!
Second, improve the economy with Mexico. If people are coming here for economic opportunity, then help Mexico to harvest its own resources, and they will create their own opportunities.
Third, make it easier to be a legal immigrant. Here are my qualifications. They must speak English and have a basic understanding about our laws and customs. They must agree to be Americans and Americans only, and love America. They must not have a criminal record ( I am willing to overlook the felony for just being an illegal immigration ).