Appearing on Good Morning America today, Geraldo Rivera claimed that illegal aliens in the United States are "law abiding." Is he right?In a debate moderated by GMA co-host Diane Sawyer that began today at about 7:15 am EDT, Geraldo faced off against Glenn Beck. Rivera made a case for letting the estimated 12 million illegal aliens remain in the country.
GERALDO RIVERA: We have 12 million people who are gainfully employed; the vast majority of them are. I submit to you that these people are a vital part of the American economy. That they are doing jobs that essentially Americans don't want. Americans are fully employed. To lose these 12 million hard-working people, law-abiding, family people, socially-conservative people in many ways, I think would be a travesty.When Beck challenged Geraldo's law-abiding claim, pointing to the three illegal aliens who were among the al Qaeda-inspired terrorists planning to attack Fort Dix, Rivera retorted that the fence Beck favors wouldn't have kept them out, since they came in through JFK airport.
But let's focus on the people coming across the southern border, and consider Geraldo's claim that they are "law-abiding." Accoring to this recent NewsMax article, which in turn relies on confirmation by a former senior special agent with the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service.
- Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war. More than 15 percent of all murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the United States are committed by illegal aliens, three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population.
- Ninety-five percent of warrants for murder in Los Angeles, Calif. are for illegal aliens.
- Eighty-three percent of warrants for murder in Phoenix, Ariz. are for illegal aliens.
- Eighty-six percent of warrants for murder in Albuquerque, N.M., are for illegal aliens.
- Seventy-five percent of people on the "Most Wanted" list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
- Twenty-five percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals who are here illegally.
- Forty percent of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
- Forty-eight percent of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
ASIDE: Though brought on presumably as an anti-immigration hawk to balance Geraldo, Beck proved himself surprisingly moderate, ultimately agreeing with Rivera on the key issue of amnesty for illegals.
RIVERA: Do you stand for the legalization of the 12 million here, or not?Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net
BECK: I will absolutely talk to you about that.
RIVERA: Yes or no, Glenn.
BECK: I think so, yes, yes, I believe I am.
RIVERA: Then the rest is details.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Comments Policy
Illegals & The Law
May 17, 2007 - 09:13 ET by JimboWhy would anyone think that someone who willfully breaks the law to enter the country would suddenly begin obeying the law once they got here?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Good point, Jimbo. One must c
May 17, 2007 - 09:57 ET by QueenMumGood point, Jimbo. One must consider whether those who are here illegally are even aware of the laws of the land. Given that illegals must spend their lives "hiding" who they really are, most likely they feel that they're somewhere on the outskirts of American society and therefore not accountable to our laws. I recall a recent bust in Chicago where people were producing fraudulent I.D.'s. Some of those rounded up didn't feel they were breaking any laws and complained about being detained. It's as if folks want to take advantage of all that America has to offer without actually having any of the responsibilities. For most Americans, working and being "good people" won't get us a free pass on taxes, licenses, paying our medical bills, and all the other responsibilities that come with being a U.S. citizen. This is a core issue. When people immigrate legally, they engage in a process which demands that they are prepared to live as law-abiding American citizens. Those who come here illegally have no incentive to do so.
They won't, which is the bi
May 17, 2007 - 13:58 ET by StogieGuyThey won't, which is the biggest flaw of all. It's idiotic.
Guess what? We've officially all become "disinfranchised voters" - not represented by anyone. Thanks guys.
Fox News person vs CNN pers
May 17, 2007 - 09:21 ET by sarcasmoFox News person vs CNN person on ABC. Wow...Talk about cross pollination.
JMR
law-abiding illegals
May 17, 2007 - 09:21 ET by blackrain4xmasUm, isn't that an oxymoron? How deep into denial does one have to be before they describe those who commit illegal acts as legal and/or law-abiding?
Statistics are funny
May 17, 2007 - 09:39 ET by c5thenThe vast majority of the illegal immigrants to this country (80-90%) are here for economic reasons. They break the immigration laws because they need or want to get a better paying job. They break the documentation laws (drivers licenses, SS numbers, etc) because they need that info to get a job or to maintain a job. The laws that they "follow" are simply because they haven't had to choose between their economic condition and the law. In the vast majority of the cases, the economic condition wins.
The other 10-20% are here as criminals to "work" as criminals. Mostly drug trafficers, but others too. How many are potential terrorists or at least mercinaries that terrorists can use?
Also, the vast majority of the illegals do not pay income or SS or medicare taxes because of their illegal status. They do however benefit from these programs, so the burden is unfairly shifted to the legal payers.
The first thing we need to do is stop the flood comming over the border. Then we can have an adult conversation on what to do about those who are already here.
Since the fence was built in the S. CA area south of San Diego, they have seen their crime rate drop 50%. That is not a coincidence.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
Illegals
May 17, 2007 - 09:54 ET by JimboOf course most of them are here for economic reasons. They see a porous border and an opportunity to cross unchallenged and earn more money than they could in Mexico. But what we have to remember is, they are breaking the law to do it, and they know that.
So – in my opinion – maybe not all, but most of the people crossing illegally are those that are predisposition to break the law. In this case, they are doing it for money. So why should it come to anyone’s surprise, that while they are here, they break the law when another “opportunity to make money” arrives?
I’d like to know how many people in Mexico would love the opportunity to come to America but haven’t because they know that doing so would be breaking the law.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
"I’d like to know ho
May 17, 2007 - 10:09 ET by c5thenProbably almost all the rest of them who haven't come over yet.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic
Also, the vast majority of th
May 17, 2007 - 10:57 ET by Voice of ReasonAlso, the vast majority of the illegals do not pay income or SS or medicare taxes because of their illegal status. They do however benefit from these programs, so the burden is unfairly shifted to the legal payers.
Just a little correction ... if they work for W2 wages with a false SS number, they do pay Income, SS, and Medicare taxes. In fact, the SS funds that they (and their employer) pay in will probably never be collected after retirement. I think that is part of the reason the government won't do anything about it. Illegals and their employers contribute a lot of funds to SS, and the government is counting on those funds to never be disbursed.
If they work "under the table" or in contractor type jobs where the income is reported on 1099 (or not reported at all), you are correct, there probably are no taxes paid, but if they work in a factory situation, those taxes are probably collected.
Please don't misunderstand my intentions with this post. I just wanted to point out what I feel is part of the reason that the gov't doesn't want to fix it. It provides millions to SS/Medicare, not to mention income taxes that probably will never be claimed on a tax return, which would most likely result in a refund and a low income tax credit if they were to file. I am not advocating for amnesty. I agree completely. The border should be tightened and fines should be handed out to employers that choose to hire illegals.
You're absolutely right VoR.
May 17, 2007 - 12:11 ET by BeowulfYou're absolutely right VoR. Those that are working under false pretenses have taxes deducted automatically, and I do understand your point. But to take this a little further, how many of the 12 million illegals fall into this category? And what is the comparison between the taxes withheld from illegals and the social monies paid out to illegals? Personally, I don't know the answer myself, but common sense dictates that there is a vast disparity between collections and payments, as one has to factor in the families of the illegals collecting social benefits as well, not even counting those working "under the table". Also, since so many illegals are working menial jobs, even those having taxes withheld are having a minimum amount or none taken out due to their income level.
I'm not contradicting you. Just taking your information another step.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
Beowulf,Great point! I am n
May 17, 2007 - 12:36 ET by Voice of ReasonBeowulf,
Great point! I am not sure about the breakdown between W2 and 1099/"under the table". That would be an interesting statistic to discover.
As for social monies paid out for illegal benefits, I think part of the problem is that the Fed gov't isn't too worried about those costs because many of the benefits that you speak about are paid for (in large part) locally (emergency rooms, schools, etc.). While I imagine some of the funds for those programs come from the Feds, hasn't primary funding for these programs been shifted mainly to state/local entities? That is where this enforcement problem comes from - the Feds aren't worried about it since someone else is having to foot the bill.
You're right, except that alt
May 17, 2007 - 14:07 ET by BeowulfYou're right, except that although the original money may come from state or local sources, states receive supplementary funding from the feds, some of which refills their coffers. And regardless of where the funding comes from, it is still taxpayer money from for-real citizens paying the expenses of people who shouldn't be here at all, let alone be receiving benefits that many Americans can't even get.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
And regardless of where the
May 17, 2007 - 14:32 ET by Voice of ReasonAnd regardless of where the funding comes from, it is still taxpayer money from for-real citizens paying the expenses of people who shouldn't be here at all, let alone be receiving benefits that many Americans can't even get.
I agree 100%. It is tax payer money that is paying for it no matter whether it is state, local, or federal funds. I just don't think the Politicians see it that way. Unfortunately, they see illegals as "potential new voters" that are worth the expense.
I just wish the idiots in Washington would quit worrying about the "potential new voters" and start worrying about the voters that put them there in the first place.
It's not just the "poten
May 17, 2007 - 15:07 ET by BeowulfIt's not just the "potential new voters" the pols are worried about. It's the current voters with illegal family members that they're worried about. And let's face it, we're talking about the Hispanic vote. How many are here legally, yet have family and friends here, or coming here, illegally? How many have illegals with them at any given time? How many want US "Mexican" territory (CA, NM, AZ, etc.) returned to Mexico? The more Mexicans here, legally or otherwise, the better. Many Hispanic leaders have made no secret of their desire to have these lands returned to their "rightful" people.
Anyone who has read my posts knows I'm not one for conspiracy theories, and much of the illegal problem is simple economics. Many come here, as they say, for better pay. The Mexican government couldn't survive without the remittance from people in the US.
But it is no secret that both Hispanic leaders here in the US and Mexican leaders have both publicly stated that they still rightfully own much of the US and that we took it and hold it illegally. And they want it back.
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
RIVERA: . . . these 12 millio
May 17, 2007 - 09:43 ET by drillanwrRIVERA: . . . these 12 million hard-working people, law-abiding, family people, socially-conservative people in many ways, I think would be a travesty.
RIVERA: Do you stand for the legalization of the 12 million here, or not?
Wait ... You just said they were "law-abiding", and then you want to "legalize" them??? Geraldo, your cell phone is ringing again (See: FNC's Hannity and Colmes last night ...) and it's Rosie who wants to explain her "fire doesn't melt steel" physics.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but California prisons and jails are jam-slammed with illegals who (once they broke the law of crossing the border and being here) broke other laws on OUR books??!! (See: above list of just murders alone, for gawdsakes!!!)
Law Abiding?
May 17, 2007 - 09:57 ET by lkoturIs it logical to say that someone in this country ILLEGALLY is a "law abiding" person?
Black is white - white is black. Wrong is right - right is wrong.
Liberals!
Is it logical to say that s
May 17, 2007 - 10:09 ET by Tom1969caUnder the liberal definition of 'logical' ... yes.
~~~
"Al Gore never shuts up; it's just occasionally we have to hood him like a falcon so we can get some sleep..."Denis Miller (on Al Gore)
Gerald Michael Rivera, also k
May 17, 2007 - 10:01 ET by BeowulfGerald Michael Rivera, also known as Geraldo, has never, and will never, acknowledge his sensationalistic statements as being false. He is still hyping the "they're doing jobs Americans won't do" BS.
He said in this story that Americans are "fully employed". Our unemployment rate is currently 4.5%, which equates to 13.5 million Americans out of work. Even assuming the correct number of illegals is 12 million, and that every one of them is employed, deporting all of them and replacing them with unemployed Americans will still leave 1.5 million Americans out of work. Doesn't sound "fully employed" to me. But I guess that while 12 million illegals is a huge number (after all, there are too many to deport), 13.5 million unemployed Americans is insignificant.
He says illegals are law-abiding, yet, by their very presence, they are law-breakers. But I guess Gerry can decide which laws they can break while still being law-abiding.
Every time Gerry is confronted with crimes committed by illegals, he immediately redirects the discussion to the crime itself, not who committed it, condemning crime in general, while totally blowing-off the simple fact that if illegals weren't here, these particular crimes wouldn't have been committed in the first place.
He also completely ignores the social and economic impact illegals are having on our country. Many times, illegals have better social benefits than born-in-the-USA, hard-working Americans - free health care, free or significantly reduced tuition, etc. while for-real Americans are barely feeding their families, go without ever seeing a doctor, and can't put themselves or their children through college.
He also purposely ignores the fact of the total unfairness legalization and amnesty would have on legal immigrants.
Finally, how many know, and when has he admitted, to his mother being Jewish? Geraldo is far too busy being Hispanic to bring that little tidbit up...
The Closed Mind Erects Strong Barriers
By definition, Geraldo is bei
May 17, 2007 - 10:34 ET by QueenMumBy definition, Geraldo is being racist. By taking on the mantle of "Hispanic", he separates himself according to his ethnicity. And by using this aspect of his family background to protest the plight of illegals, he ends up in conflict with everything that it means to be an American. I find it amusing that he cultivates that stupid moustache of his. Isn't it somewhat of a stereotype?
Thanks, Beowulf. Wasn't aware of his mother's ethnicity.
@ He is still hyping the &quo
May 17, 2007 - 10:35 ET by drillanwr@ He is still hyping the "they're doing jobs Americans won't do" BS.
Yeah, those innocent "Ft. Dix Six" ... doing a job Americans won't do ...
drill: Ha! Ha! Good one.
May 17, 2007 - 10:41 ET by QueenMumdrill: Ha! Ha! Good one.
nonsense, drillanwr
May 17, 2007 - 10:53 ET by tumbler_2007It's not hype. The ordinary illegal immigrant works where ever he/she can get HIRED.
If an ordinary American gets to that jobsite before him/her, he would be hired. But they don't apply for menial work, at least not very often. That is the HONEST way of evaluating what work illegals do here.
The proof of any pudding is the eating. If Americans wanted to work in taco stands, or picking tomatoes, or digging ditches, they'd be hired every day, just as the illegal is hired. They hardly ever APPLY. Rivera tells it basically straight. Attack him from some better angle.
Your logic is flawed.If someh
May 17, 2007 - 10:58 ET by JimboYour logic is flawed.
If somehow we were able to wave a magic wand and deport every illegal, what would happen to those taco stands? Would they go out of business?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 11:09 ET by tumbler_2007. . .
IF . . . IS FOR CHILDREN
The fact is, when you apply anyplace, whether a taco stand, WalMart, picking vegetables, name it; the boss is going to hire you. Americans get hamburger flipping jobs. They work as gardeners, etc.,
But not in any vast numbers. Most are educated and qualified to apply in management, or at least work up the ladder. They'll pass on a menial job. It's just logical; that's not knocking them. But an illegal immigrant has no viable options but to accept what he/she can get. And usually he's going to work hard. Let's concentrate on the TRUTH. We know they're lawbreakers. It's not necessary to brand them as people who "steal jobs" from an American, in any large number. That's pure bull-sh.t.
Thanks Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 11:17 ET by JimboThanks.
Care to answer my question now?
Or will doing so disprove your point?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
please, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 11:24 ET by tumbler_2007What about your stupid question ?
A MAGIC WAND ! You're ridiculous, Jimmy.
Magic wands don't exist. At least taco stands exist. I'm sure they'll go on making tacos even if you build a fence forty-foot high out of BRICK. It won't help you win debates.
My only mistake was expecting
May 17, 2007 - 11:25 ET by JimboMy only mistake was expecting a rational debate from you.
My bad. I won't make the same mistake twice.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Meh
May 17, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Mr. BishopAnytime, anyone expects a rational debate from tumbler on the subject of illegals... you've already made the erroneous assumption that he can possibly debate rationally. He doesn't. He doesn't use facts, and when facts are provided for him, he ignores them. On the subject of illegal aliens specifically... he likes to talk about how they are persecuted, yet ignores their breaking of the law. He ignores that the "jobs" he speaks of, would be filled if they were not here. There is a nice unemployment rate in this country -- low, but still exists. If the illegals were not here... someone would do their jobs.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Right on Mr. Bishop. My que
May 17, 2007 - 11:34 ET by JimboRight on Mr. Bishop. My question to him was rhetorical, and could only be answered in the manner you just did. Like I said, answering it would have disproved his point, so he refused and instead chose to string words together that have no real meaning or substance. Like I said,
MY BAD!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, mr b
May 17, 2007 - 11:40 ET by tumbler_2007Nonsense--
"yet ignores their breaking of the law." REPLY: That's nonsense, or just a lie. I do not ignore such things.
"He ignores that the "jobs" he speaks of, would be filled if they were not here. There is a nice unemployment rate in this country -- low, but still exists. If the illegals were not here... someone would do their jobs." REPLY: A nice old Mexican saying-- If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle. ---Yet, I accept your argument. As a personal opinion of Mr. Bishop's; not very plausible, but OK. Everybody has a right to an opinion.
When I state an opinion I'm being accused of irrationality, dementia, being loco. Nobody here thinks I have rights. But I have no qualms about bluntly saying whatever is true.
;^>
May 17, 2007 - 11:44 ET by RJ;^>
"Most are educated and q
May 17, 2007 - 11:28 ET by QueenMum"Most are educated and qualified to apply in management"
So tumbler, you are contending that there are relatively few Americans who don't qualify for more highly-skilled jobs? That there are few Americans who must take more menial positions because they are either unskilled, undereducated, or uneducated? I would contest this assertion based on personal observation alone. I'd suggest that the only difference for the illegal is the lack of proper I.D. and the language barrier.
And what about high school or college students on summer breaks? Or welfare moms? Or a senior citizen who would simply like to supplement their social security benefits in order to make ends meet? Or someone who just got out of jail and needs to establish a work history in order to move forward? Or someone who got laid off from a factory job and needs to do something to earn an income until they're able to acquire further education or training in order to find a better job? These people live in my own and surrounding communities. And in some of the surrounding communities, they are not the "few".
dear queen mum
May 17, 2007 - 11:44 ET by tumbler_2007Dear QM,
I never said those things. I only state the facts.
We are currently at about 4 and 1/2 percent unemployment. Who knows why? I guess people apply somewhere for the jobs. They're hired. I only know illegal aliens are NOT stealing jobs away from anybody. And that's a fact.
Forgive me, tumbler. I took t
May 17, 2007 - 11:54 ET by QueenMumForgive me, tumbler. I took the phrase "not in any vast numbers" to mean "few".
And I suppose that if one were to consider the use of the word "steal" as meaning to await someone outside their place of employment, murder them, and then somehow replace them without anyone knowing the difference, then I guess you'd be right that no one is "stealing" jobs.
Since you deal in "facts", can you please then provide the statistics that prove your point that illegals are doing jobs that American citizens do not want. Please also include a brief explanation of how the unemployment rate is calculated, along with statistics re: the skill levels and education of the unemloyed who are currently included or not included in the 4 1/2 percent. Thank you.
Queen
May 17, 2007 - 12:04 ET by JimboIt goes back to my taco stand analogy that he refuses to answer. If the illegals vanished tomorrow, would those businesses simply fold up and blow away? Or would they hire Americans? Of course they would hire Americans. And since that is the case, and since illegals now hold them, what is the only rational explanation?
We are straightforward with our points of view. I wish posters like Tumbler would have the same courtesy instead of trying to support their beliefs without actually coming out and saying it.
And his demanding of “truth” from other posters when he offers none of his own is becoming tiresome.
By the way – I know where you are going about your question regarding how unemployment is calculated. It’s a trap, so don’t expect him to give you a straightforward and “truthful” answer.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
you don't deserve an answer
May 17, 2007 - 14:12 ET by tumbler_2007Mum,
Answering you is like trying to stop Niagara Falls. You could likely do it with hydrogen bombs. Otherwise, don't even try.
You keep harping after you've been answered.
Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:16 ET by JimboTumbler – are you bi polar or schizophrenic or something? It seems like the personality you use to type your posts is talking about the other personality in your head screaming to get out.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Jimbo, you may have hit on
May 17, 2007 - 14:21 ET by MightyMouthJimbo, you may have hit on something! Maybe those screaming voices in his head are hundreds of Illegals wanting out!! Just pop his head open, add water and viola, enough help to pull California out of the fruit labor "shortage"!. hmmmm.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Chea Pet
May 17, 2007 - 14:23 ET by JimboKinda like an illegal immigrant Chea Pet?!?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Yeah, but with a REAL NASTY
May 17, 2007 - 14:24 ET by MightyMouthYeah, but with a REAL NASTY attitude....
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
come to your senses, jimmy
May 17, 2007 - 14:25 ET by tumbler_2007If you can't say anything good about your neighbor, just let him alone.
The subject I'm taking about is illegal immigrants; Do they accept jobs Americans don't wnt ?
I'm not the subject. Geraldo Rivera's moustache isn't the subject. Why do folks like you and the guy who hates Geraldo's moustache waste this blogsite's bandwidth posting the snippy sh.t you post ? Have you anything useful to say about the job situation of illegals ? That would make some sense here. I'm not the subject under discussion.
"If you can't say
May 17, 2007 - 14:27 ET by MightyMouth"If you can't say anything good about your neighbor, just let him alone."
By God, I just had to mark this one for prosperity....
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
clueless
May 17, 2007 - 14:30 ET by tumbler_2007Yeah, old mouth;
You're making everybody happy.
He's making me chuckle!Jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 14:31 ET by JimboHe's making me chuckle!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Ya know we love ya tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:37 ET by MightyMouthYa know we love ya tumbler (I am speaking for myself of course)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
speak something else, please
May 17, 2007 - 14:44 ET by tumbler_2007REPEAT: . . . . . . I'm not the subject. . . . Geraldo Rivera's moustache isn't the subject. Why do folks like you and the dummy who hates Geraldo's moustache waste this blogsite's bandwidth posting the dumb sh.t you post ? Get a life; tell me: Have you anything useful to say about the job situation of illegals ?
I don't love you. I think y
May 17, 2007 - 14:46 ET by JimboI don't love you. I think you are an ass. And I'm making it about you.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Yeah
May 17, 2007 - 14:50 ET by Mr. BishopYeah -- Get jobs in their own country -- that's a great solution -- but you hate that idea because you're a supporter of illegal aliens.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
I didn't say anything about
May 17, 2007 - 14:56 ET by MightyMouthI didn't say anything about his mustache (today). But to your point about wasting bandwith, would you REALLY like to get into a pissing contest about who wastes more bandwith (you or me)? I think not.
Anyhow, to answer "the point", with all the Gigabytes of "non-wasted" bandwith from you on the subject of illegal immigration, you still do not have ONE friend on the subject. You have not convinced anyone, about anything. Why do you keep trying?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Illegals shouldn't have jobs
May 17, 2007 - 14:28 ET by bigtimerIllegals shouldn't have jobs here...or be here either.
What part of that equation do you not get through your thick skull tumbster
nonsense, bigtumor
May 17, 2007 - 14:34 ET by tumbler_2007Illegals shouldn't. Illegals should. You're the sorry @ss judge of what should and shouldn't be. Why don't you run for office ? You think you're campaigning here anyway. Go & tell your dumb daughter what she should or shouldn't be doing. Be a useful grown-up.
You’re a moron. The laws
May 17, 2007 - 14:38 ET by JimboYou’re a moron. The laws of this country say it’s wrong. Inconvenient truth, I’d say.
And to call someone’s daughter dumb? Well that puts you on my lowlife scumbag list, which is where I should have put you long ago.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
nonsense, jimbo
May 17, 2007 - 14:53 ET by tumbler_2007If you can call Tumbler a moron (and you can) and she can call me a thick skull, among many other little wanks,
I can tell her to help her dumb daughter. -- Have you nothing but boredom to contribute around the Internet ? Say a few interesting words, not just "magic wand." You're mired in the Harry Potter stage, obviously. HA ! Since this isn't your blog, get out of my face; go do your homework.
Juvenile.
.
NB Staff: Tumbler has gone
May 17, 2007 - 15:16 ET by RJNB Staff: Tumbler has gone off the deep end with his aggressive and widespread attacks on posters.
Isn't it past time for you to help him find something else to do with his dotage?
Leave him be.He is known by h
May 17, 2007 - 15:27 ET by NL207Leave him be.
He is known by his obvious hypocrisy, chauvinism and bigotry. He also exemplifies the blatant disregard for the sovereignty of the United States displayed by the illegal immigrant invasion and its sympathizers. He is a testament to the wrongness of that ethos.
No
May 17, 2007 - 15:20 ET by Mr. BishopIf you want to attack bigtimer personally, that is fair game. If you want to attack RJ, Jimbo, myself or anyone else on these blogs personally... do so (ad hominem or not). However, attacking someone else's daughter, is wrong.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Tumbler - are you refering to
May 17, 2007 - 17:53 ET by JimboTumbler - are you refering to yourself in the third person???? Priceless!!
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Tumbster...You either have ha
May 17, 2007 - 14:39 ET by bigtimerTumbster...
You either have had too much vino today already or you do not comprehend what you just posted above about illegals working here.
Here join this you polite man...do something useful with yourself.
http://www.libertypost.org/index.shtml
Apply yourself and moolah to a good cause.
Now you see....
May 17, 2007 - 14:42 ET by Mr. BishopThis is the true example of an ad hominem attack people... not the bastardized version a lot of other people have been spouting on here.
You don't like that people tell you that illegals should not be here. GET OVER IT! Instead of telling bigtimer to tell her dumb daughter what she should or should not do... why don't you actually look at what the illegals are doing, as being wrong. You want to start a crusade to help the illegals? Do it in their home country -- not here. This country is not the answer to their problems. They have a problem? Fix it legally -- in their own country.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
oh, Mr Biship
May 17, 2007 - 15:22 ET by tumbler_2007Stop it, Sir ! You're going to make me cry !!!!! (Sniff.)
excuse me---
May 17, 2007 - 15:23 ET by milootooleAre you an example of all the new citizens we will have??????
So, no answer then?
May 17, 2007 - 15:29 ET by Mr. BishopSo, as was stated previously, you have no answer to the problem. It's no surprise, you're a racist lying bum. Such is life. Your problem is that you think that you can't be racist because you are not white. However, you are racist -- and your constant attempts to simply excuse the illegal alien movement, is just overwhelming as retarded as you are.
You see how this works yet tumbler? My guess, that due to your holier-than-thou, limited brain capacity, is no... however, you see? I attack you personally... not your kids, not your wife, no one but you. You are a lying racist, that believes that illegal lazy Mexican bums can come into this country illegally, and do whatever they want. They f*cked up their own country tumbler... why don't you go back with them?
Are you getting this yet tumbler? You see how I simply attack and ridicule you? Do you see how I don't attack your family? The difference, however, is that what I have said about you is proven true on these blogs. You are racist (unlike whenever you call someone else on here racist), and you are a liar. Here's the most important thing of all though... it's called ignoring your ignorant @$$. I've been doing it for some time, and it's really easy to do again... just watch.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
dear bishop san
May 17, 2007 - 16:02 ET by tumbler_2007I don't really give a FIG about your silly sensibilities. Dumb daughter is a rhetorical device, if taken with good humor. I perceive you have no sense of humor, only graveetas, or some other elitist delusion of grandeur. Therefore, i ask you:
Keep your idiotic lectures and let others express an opinion. The country has NEVER depended on your wisdom. You add NOTHING whatever of substance to thes discussions. The "illegal" aspect of these matters is too well- known and digested by now to require your pontificating.
I'll inform you briefly on something I've long ago put behind me; I forgot the insult quite readily. MY WIFE, whom I adore; we just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary; was recently impugned in this very blogsite, by a ridiculous cretin who calls himself Roger the Grabber or some such BS. -- In a very wanton manner, he implied my wife is a prostitute in HIS employ. I reacted a little badly, yet I never sank to his disgusting level (he thinks he's a comedian.) Because, guess WHAT ? I have CLASS.
So, save the bloated lectures about my "daughter" remark. If I can take it, so can you idiots. YOU, Sir; have never been mistreated by me. But you're certainly asking for it. I don't need your stinking attitude, and when you call ME a racist, you haven't made me flinch or back down. I love my neighbor as Christ commands. You hate your neighbor. Every post you make about your neighbor is condescending, crude and stupid. You have ZERO love; except for your pocketbook.
Dementia tumbler...dementia i
May 17, 2007 - 16:17 ET by bigtimerDementia tumbler...dementia is setting in on you.
Seek help.
"Page not found"
May 18, 2007 - 11:27 ET by RJTumbler 2007 = "Page not found"
Whoa. You weren't kidding,
May 19, 2007 - 20:41 ET by dahliatraversWhoa. You weren't kidding, RJ.
Sorry Tumbler
May 17, 2007 - 14:29 ET by JimboI tried to have a real, fact based, rational debate with you earlier, but you declined. So…… go mow my lawn and leave me alone.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
a mental gymnast
May 17, 2007 - 14:37 ET by tumbler_2007Jimbo came up with a zinger ! Yeah ! He's a CARD. When are you going on Jay Leno ?
Fact-based ? A MAGIC WAND. --Ha ha!
Not hard to do when dealing w
May 17, 2007 - 14:48 ET by JimboNot hard to do when dealing with you.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
a preview of NAU or thanks bushkennedy
May 17, 2007 - 14:51 ET by milootoolea preview of NAU or thanks bushkennedy
"Troops began to patrol the city. This week, they were unable to prevent the attack on Apatzingan's interim police chief, Jose Alfredo Zavala Perez, who was shot and wounded Tuesday in an ambush.
On Wednesday, shortly after being treated and released at a local hospital, Zavala Perez resigned, leaving the police force leaderless. "
NB Staff: It's time to help Tumbler find something else
May 17, 2007 - 14:52 ET by RJNB Staff: Tumbler has gone off the deep end with his widespread attacks on posters.
It's time for you to help him find something else to do with his dotage.
RJ...I second that.
May 17, 2007 - 15:04 ET by bigtimerRJ...
I second that.
See you in Hell, Tumbler!
May 17, 2007 - 15:23 ET by Dave Rbt,
I third that and then some. Calling your daughter dumb was totally uncalled for and was about ten miles beyond the last straw as far as I am concerned. The personal insults this "ambassador of goodwill" have delivered on all of us have become tiresome.
I think its high time for this troll to go.
See you in Hell, Tumbler!
Dave...What is funny is I don
May 17, 2007 - 15:27 ET by bigtimerDave...
What is funny is I don't have a daughter...do not know where that even came from.
Like I said, I think his tumbler was over-flowing today with his vino.
He is always rude anymore and doesn't even remember what he posted himself.
May be dementia setting in.
I don't have a daughter..Ye
May 17, 2007 - 15:36 ET by Dave RI don't have a daughter..
Yeah, bt, but t*****r didn't know that when he said it!
May be dementia setting in.
Maybe he should get an Alzheimer's test. He does exhibit the symptoms at times.
QueenMum, since tumbler won't
May 17, 2007 - 21:15 ET by MikeBQueenMum, since tumbler won't answer your question about the calculation of unemployment rates, I will. "Unemployed" is defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics as "not working, but looking for work". Thus, a 20 year old who dropped out of school in 6th grade, and is therefore unemployable, is not counted as "unemployed". There are, therefore, millions of teenagers and older, who are physically capable of doing work but, due to their own stupidity, and/or the failure of the public school system, are psychologically and educationally unfit for the labor pool. And why should they be? The liberals have found that everyone is "entitled" to food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. Even if they do nothing to contribute to society, society is required to provide for them, even if the producers are deprived of the above listed benefits. The libs also insure that there will be an ever larger pool of unemployables by continuing to raise the minimum wage to levels that price the unqualified or minimally qualified right out of the job market. These societal parasites will, of course, vote for liberals because the parasites are dependent on the liberals for those benefits.
Here is an interesting historical footnote: the Jamestown colony was on the verge of failure until John Smith was elected governor of the colony. He instituted a policy of "if you don't work, you don't eat." Those in the colony who wished to be parasites on the productivity of others either died or got off their *sses and contributed to the welfare of the colony. Do you think that just maybe...?
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
It is hype.Have you ever done
May 17, 2007 - 14:52 ET by well99It is hype.Have you ever done day labor?I have and news flash a illegal will get the job over a American.Not all the time but it happens often enough.Also your examples are dem talking points.The ordinary illegal is not just in the fields working.They are at processing plants,mills,construction sites.They have kept wages down.A friend and a neighbor worked at Swifts and wages went from 19 to 10 a hour.This was long before any raids.That wont matter to folks like you because people that break a sweat working are beneath you.Just a note there are no menial jobs.Work is work.As long as it pays the rent who cares.
Dude, it's like this:A citize