Dick Kreck of the Denver Post seems to think there is a good "point" to a suggestion that Christians should be suspected bombers because Oklahoma City Bomber Timothy McVeigh was supposedly a Christian. In a column about local radio talk show host "Gunny Bob" of KOA, Kreck comments that a radio station detractor has "got a point" when he satirically said that, since McVeigh and Nichols were Christians, all Christians should be placed under surveillance because of the actions of the two bombers. The detractor was responding to talker "Gunny Bob's" idea that all Muslims in the USA should be forced to wear GPS tracking bracelets so the government could keep track of them all.
Apparently talker Bob is a fiery one against Muslims in this era of the war on terror and his loose talk has stirred Colorado Media Matters, a local branch of the leftist Media Matters organization, to begin targeting the Clear Channel radio host for his opinions.
The reply that Kreck is talking about was posted on the CMM website.
The reaction has been heated. One CMM blogger wrote, "Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were Christians and they plotted the Oklahoma City bombing. Does 'Gunny Bob' also want all Christians fitted with GPS tracking devices?"
To which, columnist Kreck says:
He's got a point.
Um, no Mr. Kreck the leftist poster at CMM does NOT "got a point".
Neither McVeigh nor Nichols ever claimed that their bombing was done at the behest of their religion. The Oklahoma bombers were run of the mill, anti-government types, NOT religious zealots. And, even if they had been religious zealots, they were but two of billions of Christians NONE of the rest of whom have bombed anything for their religion.
On the other hand, the only reason that most Islmofascists use to justify their hate and murder is their religion. They aren't mad at any mere government, they want world domination for their extreme interpretation of their religion. And there have been thousands upon thousands who have perpetrated such bombings and polls show that millions upon millions of the bomber's fellow believers agree with those violent actions.
Here is where the left refuses to even try to understand the dangerous world in which we live. Their habit of placing all religions into a state of moral equivalence prevents them from seeing the differences between them and causes them to assume that all religions and the actions taken by adherents of them are all the same.
So, to someone like Kreck, Christians are just as apt to be suicide bombers as Muslims just because they are both religious.
But, for that illogical point to hold water, a leftist would have to have contemporary evidence of thousands of Christian suicide bombers or evidence of large, official church organizations calling for a Christian version of a jihad in similar fashion as Islamist examples.
Naturally, leftists can present no such evidence making their nihilistic claims that all religion is the same a straight out lie.
This purposeful misunderstanding by the left of the dangers we face in the west makes us far more vulnerable than we would be otherwise and presents the most direct avenue to victory that radical Islamists need to beat us.
So, no Mr. Kreck. Someone who says that Christians are just as dangerous as radical Muslims does not have a good "point" at all.
By the way... want to see a photo of the Post's newsroom where a Bush voodoo doll hangs that shows the juvenile propensities of members of the Post?
Nice, huh?
Yeah, more unbiased "news" we should expect from Howard Dean.
(Voodoo doll image seen at this Post website)















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Just another insipid attemp
May 15, 2007 - 05:18 ET by motherbeltJust another insipid attempt by a journalist to equate Christianity with radical Islam. Ho hum. What else is new?
Apples and oranges
May 15, 2007 - 16:14 ET by LionKingDid McVeigh and Nichols commit their crimes in the name of Christianity? No!
Does it really surprise anyon
May 15, 2007 - 05:31 ET by ArchConservativeDoes it really surprise anyone here that the MSM equates Islamofacists with Christianity? Any time something goes against their template, they try to make morality comparisons even when there are none. And these are the same people that McCain says are "99 percent fair" and "my base". Guess who's the Rino in the room? I'm sure the next time a muslim tries to kill soldiers at a US Army post here in the states or takes out half a city block, we will see stories that say it wasn't their religion that was at fault. Or worse yet, refuse to name the perpetrators for fear that they will be seen as anti-Islam.
Save America, stop subscribing to newspapers!
"Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
- President George W Bush September 2001 speech to a joint session of Congress.
This is a video on YouTube b
May 15, 2007 - 11:07 ET by ahusserThis is a video on YouTube by a comic who became a conservative. He explains why libs/lefties think the way they do. He is spot on with his observations and insight. Unfortunately and telling was the fact the crowd was very small. It is 42 minutes long but worth viewing.
"A mind is a terrible thing." - A comic I forgot the name of.
I think it is Kreck, along wi
May 15, 2007 - 07:35 ET by Dave RI think it is Kreck, along with his comrades in the liberal MSM, who should be put under FBI surveillance.
Given the sympathy shown to our Islamo-fascist enemy by the liberal MSM, not to mention these people's hatred for all things American, it is quite possible some of them may very well be working for Osama himself. :-^)
McVeigh was a Christian? Yeah, right, and I'm going to be the next Pope.
This republic will not survive the continued neglect of its people.-Neal Boortz.
Well, since Dick Dreck, (oops
May 15, 2007 - 07:36 ET by Indiana JoeWell, since Dick Dreck, (oops, I mean Kreck!), is a complete idiot, and he's a Denver Post columnist, I propose that all DP columnists be considered complete idiots.
Also, the man should be taken about as seriously as Rosie O'Donnell, since he obviously takes pages from her playbook.
Well that's the thing isn't it ?
May 15, 2007 - 08:31 ET by SportPoliticsWell that's the thing isn't it, answering that the blogger has a point - is a clear indication that you're a liberal smart aleck who hopes "hate the Christian Bush" is the next thing someone else will say. I'm telling you, it's ignorant smart aleck, that's their template. That's why they get a chuckle with their antics, while many of them even argue or say they believe it. I mean think about it. When they're home, they stretch out and think to themselves, "Boy is this easy, I can just be the class clown and smart aleck for work - a couple more years of it - and I get to slap around that sob Bush the whole time, and everyone agrees with me. This is easy. There are whole comedy shows and even countdown news hours to help me along doing it. " LOL- It is funny, really, it's the perfect thing for the post modern ex-dopehead idiot activist liberal gasbag fool. Woodstock was the good 'ol days, and now the rebels rule the roost. I get the impression of that long haired pouting smarmy Kerry in his duds pic on the capitol hill lawn, just getting ready to trounce off to the Kennedy compound Island and toke up some jays again with the band members of The Mama's and Papa's. It's scarey, in just as silly a sort of way. I kind of expect them to come to their senses when it's time to be serious, but on the other hand, maybe they already are. The libs talk about how goofy John Kerry's campaign was now- putting down his constant "reporting for duty" crap as a gigantic error, but the thing is the election was close enough and nearly all of them voted for him then, and I believe the midterm was even closer in the split vote, but try to get one of these clowns to acknowledge that. They are getting so sloppy with their overblown talking points, that it amounts to flat out lying, in a very large fashion, but it is clear they have utterly convinced themselves they are spewing the truth, and noone seems to call them on it. So, they don't even have a handle on 20/20 viewpoints, or the current situation, and constantly tell lies about it all. Out of control smart aleck clowns playing the role of serious documentarians. Sounds like Michael Moore - they pretty much have adopted that stance and attitude and position - it's so much fun to get away with it, and stand up there and pretend it's true.
You see the occassional slapdown, like Pelosi's trip to Syria where she submitted in dhimmitude with her maple leafed scarf, blew her Israeli foreign policy talking points, and was scorned and ridiculed when she returned, but good 'ol lib moron fag talker the war is lost Harry Reid immediately boneheaded up and announced in solidarity, the idea that Iran was next. I guess that one crashed on them, it finally became clear that lib action was a dangerously stupid thing to attempt in the hands of the moronic lib babbling smart alecks the dems had chosen as their leaders.
I thought liberals were again
May 15, 2007 - 07:53 ET by KC BeachI thought liberals were against "profiling". They will not allow TSA employees to target young middle eastern males at airports but targeting Christians would be a "good point". Just another example of a liberal double standard.
I thought liberals were again
May 15, 2007 - 09:39 ET by SMGalbraithI thought liberals were against "profiling".
Good one.
The point, of course, is that McVeigh (and Nichols) never cited any Christian teaching or doctrine to justify (in his sick mind) his acts. The fact that they were once Christians (McVeigh was not a practicing one and he later stated that he was an agnostic) was completely irrelevant to their actions. It played no role.
Their justification was entirely political and had no religious component. Islamic radicals cite a mixture of politics and religion to explain their actions.
It is interesting, as your point shows, that the same liberal/lefties who are reluctant to cite the religious aspect that plays a role in Islamic terrorism are gleeful in pointing out that McVeigh or Rudolph were Christians.
Apparently, they're not as concerned about people painting with a broad brush against Christians as they are again Muslims. Some religions are more equal than others.
Once again...NO RESEARCH
May 15, 2007 - 08:04 ET by OldSailor88Kreck obviously didn't do much research about the subject. I've read extensively about McVeigh, and he wasn't much of a Christian. Just a short Google would have brought this blurb from Wiki.....
"Religious beliefs
After his parents' divorce, McVeigh lived with his father, and his sisters moved to Florida with their mother. He and his father were devout Roman Catholics who often attended daily Mass. In a recorded interview with Time Magazine[3] he professed his belief in "a God", though he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "never really picked it [back] up." The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter claiming to be an agnostic[4], though his execution included a Roman Catholic ceremony."
Don't they teach research in Journalism school?
(Edit to give proper link to source= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh)
More to the point
May 15, 2007 - 08:26 ET by c5thenYou cannot measure what someone is by what they say, only by what they do. The scriptures state this emphatically. 1) All men are liars. 2) You will know them by their fruits.
Q: Are professed Christians following their religious teachings when they commit acts of violence against innocent people?
A: No. Therefore, by definition, they are NOT Christians.
Q: Are professed Muslims following their religious teachings when they commit acts of violence against innocent people?
A: Yes, if those people are non-muslims they are, by definition of the Koran, NOT innocent.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic.
Great point. And they say doc
May 15, 2007 - 15:07 ET by tracheostomyGreat point. And they say doctrine divides. HA! Not in this case. We need a litmus test for such accusations. I nominate the Bible for just such a job.
-PJ
Wanna understand the entire liberal thought process in less than an hour? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1 (h/t to W0TM @ NB)
antichristian rant
May 15, 2007 - 08:50 ET by Dr. RonIsn't his last name spelled incorectly? Should that beginning letter not be a D and not a K
Warner Todd Huston - "..
May 15, 2007 - 09:28 ET by ding7777Warner Todd Huston - "... they were but two of billions of Christians NONE of the rest of whom have bombed anything for their religion".
Abortion clinics are bombed by Christian extremists.
No, they have been bombed by
May 15, 2007 - 09:33 ET by Warner Todd HustonNo, they have been bombed by less than a dozen individual nuts. Making the actions those of wacked out loners NOT one indicative of the religion as a whole -- or even of a sizable portion. On the other hand THOUSANDS of Muslims have bombed people for their religious beliefs making THEIR actions much more representative of a dominate branch of that religion.
Again, you are like most extremist leftists who practices (im)moral equivalence.
Congrats for a lack of a moral compass.
Environmentlaists have bombed like Islamics
May 15, 2007 - 10:06 ET by SportPoliticsEnvironmentlaists have bombed like Islamics. Vehicles of loggers, car lots and factories, SUV's. Many other things, all in the name of their Enviro religion.
So, ding777 is an enviro-terrorist - a bomber - no doubt just like the xtians and muzzies.
Wiki has a page devoted to ab
May 15, 2007 - 10:20 ET by Roger the ShrubberWiki has a page devoted to abortion clinic violence. as you can see, the level of violence cannot even be considered to be even in the same ball park as the Religion of Peace. Here is a list of Mooslim-inspired violence in the name of Allah for just the past three months.
All my Leftist comrades really, really, REALLY, need to re-think their bullsh*t appeasement routine trying to rationalize the violence of Islam to the violence of Xtianity. You just sound muy estupido when you try to make that connection, because this ain't the 12th century anymore. At least in my corner of the world.
Roger, could ding be some k
May 15, 2007 - 10:29 ET by MightyMouthRoger, could ding be some kind of NB stooge? I mean, drive by and post something so stupid, he doesn't even stay to defend. Hey NB masthead, we really don't need this kind of help, and it ain't funny!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Ding has a ton of credibility
May 15, 2007 - 10:49 ET by Roger the ShrubberDing has a ton of credibility, enhanced by his/her ability to avoid posting insipid, one-sentence questions that are easily debunked. He/she brings so much to the table, doesn't he/she?
My two year old grandson br
May 15, 2007 - 10:52 ET by MightyMouthMy two year old grandson brings more challenges to the table.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Abortion clinic bombers (&l
May 15, 2007 - 09:35 ET by motherbeltAbortion clinic bombers (<sarc> btw, how many dozens of instances of that have there been? <end sarc>) do it because they are under the delusion that God wants them to do it. The Koran, on the other hand, actually tells Muslims to destroy those who are called infidels.
" two of billions of C
May 15, 2007 - 10:23 ET by sanskritg" two of billions of Christians NONE of the rest of whom have bombed anything for their religion."
What about the IRA??
Political. "There are
May 15, 2007 - 10:30 ET by MightyMouthPolitical.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
#1-They aren't doing it any m
May 15, 2007 - 14:02 ET by Warner Todd Huston#1-They aren't doing it any more
#2-I said contemporary... see above
#3-It was localized to that one area of the world and not emulated by Christians the world over
#4-No official Church organization ever condoned the "troubles".
Ergo, your IRA example does not fit the Islamofascist mold.
Tim McVeigh
May 15, 2007 - 10:54 ET by Higgins WRMcVeigh/Terry Nichols/ Eric Rudolph really did do what they did based on their religious views. Their religious views just happen to be skewed. For the author to lump Christian Identity/White separatists in the same category as mainstream Christians is akin to saying that because some driver's drive drunk, then all driver's drive drunk.
Tim McVeigh was assosciated loosely with a White separatist group in OK, and although the link doesn't mention it, I remember that he supposedly stayed there for a few days on his way down to Waco, where he camped out during the standoff. I have family ties to this compound, so does that make me a racist? Of course not. Apparently Dick Kreck thinks that 6 degrees of separation makes one guilty by assosciation.
Here's a link from the ADL.
http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/Elohim.asp?xpicked=3&item=13
Well here we go folks. Chri
May 15, 2007 - 13:04 ET by Airforce_5_OWell here we go folks. Christians brought down the Murrah Building in OKC. As one who was there at the time let me say Bull Sh**.
McVeigh was pissed at the government for what he saw as a violation of basic Constitutional rights and the over aggressiveness of the federal law enforcement agencies (ATF, FBI mostly).
Are there organizations that profess radical Christian views? You can bet there are but how often do you here of them strapping bombs to themselves and running into a crowd of people to kill them.
McVeigh was one of a few to carry out his attack to kill and he did not do it in the name of Christ.
I had to guard McVeigh at his arraignment at the Base. I saw this killer up close. There was not one shred of guilt in this man. He had no conscience in this man. He felt justified.
Have there been bad things committed in the name of Christianity but not to the scale that we see today in radical Islam.
I whole-heartedly agree with
May 15, 2007 - 17:02 ET by kathleenirishI whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments. The Left know that Tim McVeigh never said he did what he did in the name of Christ or Christianity. He hated the government. He had an asocial personality. They use whatever reasons or justifications to spew their crap. Why should the truth or reality hinder them? They have an agenda and script to follow here! They need to malign Christians whenever possible, so, Tim McVeigh, bombing, Christ= all connected! Christ and Christianity causes bombings!
Lying and manipulating?: the media's first commandments; standard operating procedure. Even if he did say it was for Christ, the rest of Christianity would totally condemn him for it, and speak out against such evil. Any takers for the Islamic terrorists who kill innocents? I hear crickets, not so-called "moderate" Islamists speaking out against violence in the name of Islam. Very different responses and philosophies, very clearly demonstrated again and again.
Oh, and by the way, was there ever a mass call from the Leftist Media for Janet Reno to resign after the holocaust at Waco? Using the logic they employ to blame President Bush for every bad thing that ever happened, shouldn't Bill Clinton and Janet Reno be blamed then for Tim McVeigh's bombing of the Murrah Building? Only following their line of thinking.
Also, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to this country and all of us, Airforce. Thank you for your voice here, as well.
Does anyone realize that Mc
May 15, 2007 - 23:46 ET by NiftySwellDoes anyone realize that McVeigh and the first World Trade Center bombers were actually in the same Special Housing Unit at Englewood Federal Prison in Denver at the same time? I worked there in that cell block at that time. There was a stark difference between Yousef and McVeigh. I actually left working for the Bureau of Prisons the day McVeigh came in...but I had buddies who worked there. Yousef was a dedicated Muslim who prayed and kept at the Quran constantly. McVeigh conducted himself like a rock star and seemed to get off on the attention. The only difference that possibly makes Yousef worse is that McVeigh expressed some concern because of the children killed...Yousef would only express regret if there had been Muslims killed- he did not see non - Muslims as people. Even then it would have had to have been the right kind of Muslim, since Muslims that were not his sect were just as bad as non-believers. Hence all the in-fighting and bloodshed in that region for so long. I dont think McVeigh cared that most of the people he killed were Christians. These types of mass murderers alway have something that justified their actions, Yousef had his religion and McVeigh had Ruby Ridge. I get frustrated when the left doesnt understand the nature of these people. You cannot reason with these people. They just want you to convert or die. They are not going to change, they have held these beliefs for a long time and teach their kids these beliefs every single day. Of course, the left would never interfere with how another culture(especially one that hates the US) teaches their kids. After all, we probably forced these people to have these views from something evil we did to them in the past. Like paying them billions and billions for oil, forgiving every debt they rack up, and allowing them to keep their women from voting or driving.
It isnt any more complicated than that and you cannot appease them without sacrificing your basic freedoms. Sooner or later the left is going to have to come to terms with the fact that these radical Muslims hate them most of all.
This is past pathetic.This co
May 15, 2007 - 13:21 ET by bigtimerThis is past pathetic.
This country needs urgent help....the leftists are disturbed evil little soulless creatures...
Mindless and trash journalism is the standard today
May 15, 2007 - 16:42 ET by PlaceboThey’ll find out the truth when their buddies of Islamo-Fascism take over, as they hope. They’d be the first to have their heads lobbed off or take a bullet.
The anti-Christian sentiment and vitriol is rife in the leftist media and their true-believers.
This nutter, like most the godless media, is indicative of how low journalism has sunk over the decades. They are bottom-feeders with a sense of self-righteousness that boggles: all this whilst sucking **** from cesspool floor.
Let's see if I have this righ
May 15, 2007 - 19:10 ET by botgLet's see if I have this right:
Kreck is not a christian
OBL is not a christian
Kinda makes ya think
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.