Television anchors must compress complicated subjects into simple sentences, but on Friday night NBC's Brian Williams delivered too simple of a presumption when he set up a story, on Rudy Giuliani's latest attempt to explain his abortion position, by trying to paint Republicans as out of the mainstream as he asserted that “most Americans believe a woman has a right to an abortion. Most Republicans do not.” While it's true that most don't want abortion completely banned under all circumstances, the majority favor restrictions on such a “right” and only 16 percent, according to a February Washington Post poll, want it “legal in all cases.” And interestingly, the latest abortion poll on the PollingReport.com's abortion page, a May 4-6 survey by CNN/Opinion Research Corporation, discovered that 50 percent identified themselves as “pro-life” compared to a minority of 45 percent who called themselves “pro-choice.” NBC's own late April poll found that, by a fairly solid 53 to 34 percent, most agreed with the Supreme Court's decision upholding the federal law banning “partial-birth” abortions.
Brian Williams set up the May 11 NBC Nightly News story from David Gregory:
“Now to the big political story of the week, having to do with the leading GOP candidate for the President's job. Most Americans believe a woman has a right to an abortion. Most Republicans do not. Rudy Giuliani is running as a Republican with a pro-abortion rights record which he tried to explain again today.”
ABC's World News also aired a piece by Jake Tapper on the same subject. Charles Gibson introduced it:
“Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani gave a major speech today. In it, he reaffirmed his support of abortion rights. That is not something you normally hear from a Republican presidential candidate. And it raises the question of whether he could be the first Republican presidential nominee to favor a woman's right to choose since abortion became a political issue.”
The May 4-6 CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll (PDF of its results) asked: “With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life” 50 percent responded “pro-life” and 45 percent answered “pro-choice.”
A February 22-25 Washington Post survey asked: “Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases?” 16 percent replied “legal in all cases,” 39 percent “legal in most cases,” 31 percent “illegal in most cases” and 12 percent “illegal in all cases.”
An April 20-23 NBC/News Wall Street Journal poll asked: “As you may know, the Supreme Court recently upheld a law that makes the procedure commonly known as a partial birth abortion illegal. Do you favor or oppose this ruling by the Supreme Court?” Favor: 53 percent; oppose: 34 percent.
—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center
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Comments Policy
No, but MOST news anchors are
May 11, 2007 - 19:46 ET by mytwocentsNo, but MOST news anchors are shills for the Dimocratz!!!
And most Americans voted fo
May 11, 2007 - 20:02 ET by dervishAnd most Americans voted for Al Gore, but most Republicans didn't. Most Americans support Hillary Clinton, but most Republicans don't. Most Americans watch network news, ABC in particular. Most Americans are millionaires, but most Americans can't afford health insurance.
Hey, when you don't have to use numbers, this is pretty easy!
Rudy
May 11, 2007 - 20:05 ET by NortoBeliever
Rudy has all his bases covered on this one, except that you cannot have it all the different ways he proposes, from leaving Roe to overturning it. Who does he think he is kidding. When I read his statement out loud to a room full of people, there was silence, and then "Huh?!"
If you subtract all of the wars in the name of religion and those in the name of no religion like the communists, world-wide abortion has killed many more people. I refer to it as capital punishment without a trial and absolutely no chance of appeal. Lord have mercy on us and, quite candidly, anyone who favors the barbaric procedure. Send it back to the alleys where it came from.
Rudy
May 11, 2007 - 20:05 ET by NortoBeliever
Rudy has all his bases covered on this one, except that you cannot have it all the different ways he proposes, from leaving Roe to overturning it. Who does he think he is kidding. When I read his statement out loud to a room full of people, there was silence, and then "Huh?!"
If you subtract all of the wars in the name of religion and those in the name of no religion like the communists, world-wide abortion has killed many more people. I refer to it as capital punishment without a trial and absolutely no chance of appeal. Lord have mercy on us and, quite candidly, anyone who favors the barbaric procedure. Send it back to the alleys where it came from.
So depending on what stats yo
May 11, 2007 - 20:09 ET by balboaSo depending on what stats you use, Brian Williams' assertion was correct, then?
When TV anchors make statemen
May 11, 2007 - 21:48 ET by The PresbyterWhen TV anchors make statements like that, there is an understood "more than 50% of Americans believe such and such". No matter what stats he uses, it's still a rather dishonest and vast simplification.
First, the minute you say &qu
May 12, 2007 - 00:25 ET by mattmFirst, the minute you say "depending on what stats you use" your following statement could go either way. Therefore your post is meaningless.
Secondly, even if "most believe..." doesn't mean they're right.
Thirdly, Williams is absolutely wrong to say "Most Republicans do not (believe a woman has a right to an abortion)."
Heres why he's wrong: The FACT is that most Republicans KNOW (not believe) that because of Roe v. Wade a woman does have a right to an abortion. They merely believe that they shouldn't have this right because 1) it takes away another person's right to life, and 2) the Roe decision was wrong in at least one respect: that the Constitution neither implicitly or explicitly declares abortion to be a right.
This is the significant distinction that the Left does not want to address; which is why they continually resort to the tactics of obfuscation displayed by Williams.
19th Century
May 12, 2007 - 00:29 ET by Mr. BishopEarly in the 19th Century, "Most Americans believed slavery was okay". It doesn't mean it was right to believe such a thing.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
The Rudy smear campaign is un
May 11, 2007 - 20:47 ET by nicksmith112The Rudy smear campaign is under way by NBC/MSNBC.
Selective outrage
May 11, 2007 - 21:44 ET by kewpieI know what NOW's stance is on abortion--what is its stance on those two shock jocks who joked about raping Condoleeza Rice and Laura Bush? Shouldn't NOW be outraged? I know they would be were it a right-wing radio host musing about raping Hillary. Shouldn't NOW or other women's groups be demanding boycotts of CBS and their sponsors? Shouldn't Al Sharpton be demanding their firing because of their sexist/violence-against-women riffs?
Reminds me of the time some lib cartoonists did racist cartoons of Rice and there was no comment from the women's groups and Afro-American activists. Double standards and hypocrisies galore. Guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored.
Reminds me of when NOW and other women's groups defended Clinton against all those lying women who claimed to have been molested by the truth-telling Slick Willy.
Yes, somehow it was consisten
May 11, 2007 - 22:02 ET by dahliatraversYes, somehow it was consistent with NOW's goals and priorities in that case to take the side of the powerful male instead of the vulnerable females he victimized.
From NOW's website:
NOW strives to:
First of all, polls and surve
May 11, 2007 - 22:19 ET by Clear thinkerFirst of all, polls and surveys of any kind are NOT to be trusted, and I don't care who's side they favor. Secondly, most Americans DO NOT beleive that women have the right to kill their babies!
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
And most people believe a c
May 11, 2007 - 22:25 ET by GregEAnd most people believe a child should be protected from collision by a car seat, from the cold by a warm blanket, from an adult's spanking.....
Oh, the irony of it all.
Rudy
May 11, 2007 - 22:52 ET by pbthinker"Most Americans believe a woman has a right to an abortion. Most Republicans do not." Is this meant to insinuate that Republicans are not Americans? How many pro-life Democrats are there? The Wording of Mr. Williams statement is just amazing. Talk about commentary instead of news.
Also, will Rudy be the first Republican presidential nominee to favor a woman's right to choose, since abortion because a political issue. This is specifically what the problem is on the abortion issue is that it's been decided by a court rather than playing out through the political process.
As usual, the Democrats would rather have the issue than a solution. If Rudy were the nominee, and I wouldn't rule it out, he takes away one of their pet issues. How many times did we hear John Kerry and John Edwards say they "supported a woman's right to choose." Hell, Rudy could take away half their talking points.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Look, ... here's the bottom l
May 12, 2007 - 00:20 ET by Ky. Horse LadyLook, ... here's the bottom line. As a woman, I respect the right of any other woman to choose, okay?? The problem is, is that I don't want my tax dollars going to fund it. I don't agree with abortion ss a means of birth control; nor do I accept the sickening "choice" of a third tri-mester abortion. This is really not too complicated.
From my post above: Most Repu
May 12, 2007 - 00:40 ET by mattmFrom my post above: Most Republicans KNOW (not believe) that because of Roe v. Wade a woman does have a right to an abortion. They merely believe that they shouldn't have this right, because 1) it takes away another person's right to life, and 2) the Roe decision was wrong in at least one respect: that the Constitution neither implicitly or explicitly declares abortion to be a right.
The Left does not want to address this distinction, and they are desperate to keep this as a wedge issue. If Guliani or some other Republican can focus this issue toward some workable compromise, their power will be seriously jeopardized. They do the same thing on racial issues, educational issues and everything else.
Williams and Abortion
May 12, 2007 - 00:22 ET by pocomocoSo, Mr. Williams “declares most believe a women has a right to abortion”. I will believe that when Mr. Williams shows me the poll he took of the country’s 300 million people that would allow him to make such an assertion.
News readers like Williams make such statements based on a poll taken for their own news organization and whose results, miraculously, happen to coincide with a particular agenda they are pushing.
To my way of thinking polling is a sham. To poll 600 or 1200 people and claim the result represents 300 million people is a hoax of the first order.
As for the pollsters, it’s a nice paycheck for them.
News readers like Williams ma
May 12, 2007 - 05:32 ET by motherbeltNews readers like Williams make such statements based on a poll taken
for their own news organization and whose results, miraculously, happen
to coincide with a particular agenda they are pushing.
You're right. If the poll had shown that most Americans believe abortion should be severely restricted, it would never have seen the light of day, at least no in the drive-by media. In fact, I have seen poll results that say a majority of Americans believe there should be restrictions on abortion, particularly after the first trimester. But those poll results are not trumpeted by Brian Williams or any other MSM outlet.
Edit: regarding my statement that some polls show different results, see this one today, from CNN of all places:
Most Americans Identify as ProLife
The money quote:
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- A new poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation for CNN earlier this month find that a majority of Americans say they are pro-life when it comes to the issue of abortion.
Maybe we should add "Most Democrats are not"......
Don't confuse Brian with fact
May 12, 2007 - 07:59 ET by SouthJersey1953Don't confuse Brian with facts......He took a poll of his office. Nobody outside of his office counts.
A significant bloc of America
May 12, 2007 - 04:03 ET by KC MulvilleA significant bloc of Americans believe that although abortion is morally wrong, the law shouldn't ban them. Obviously, we have two concurrent arguments: a legal argument and a moral argument. If you only consider the morality of it, most Americans are against abortion, and almost no one believes it is always moral. However, most Americans do support a legal right to it. Because we have two "mosts" unwittingly in conflict, it's a political decision how to describe "the majority." NBC shows where it stands; so much for political objectivity.
This isn't the place for a discussion of abortion. However, this is another example of how the media is a blunt instrument; it's incapable of recognizing subtle distinctions. That's why Brian Williams' framing of the issue is so revealing and obnoxious ... he might actually believe he's reporting facts. I'd bet he's clueless about what he said, and why anyone might object.
I think the problem with Ro
May 12, 2007 - 04:24 ET by sarcasmoI think the problem with Roe is that people confuse the outcome with the legal reasoning. I think most folks, while uncomfortable with abortion in general, are comfortable with the idea that it should be more-difficult to obtain as time goes on, and these people see a moral difference between late abortions and early ones. Then the argument switches to advocates of banning all abortions claiming they want to ban only the "partial birth" variety, while the pro choice side defends a particularly gruesome & rare proceedure tooth-and-nail, because they know that the true agenda of the other side extends far-beyond that. Both sides of the argument are so "good" at this political dance that neither seems to act in a principled way anymore, and the problem is that the outcome of Roe, to the extent that it gets harder to obtain an abortion as trimesters go by, seems like a pretty good compromise to a lot of people "in the middle." The problem comes from Roe's reasoning and from the legal not political process which gave birth to it.
JMR
"Then the argument switc
May 12, 2007 - 07:02 ET by Indiana Joe"Then the argument switches to advocates of banning all abortions claiming they want to ban only the "partial birth" variety, while the pro choice side defends a particularly gruesome & rare proceedure tooth-and-nail, because they know that the true agenda of the other side extends far-beyond that."
The real problem with Roe is it was a bad case that made bad law. The original Roe decision completely outlawed 3rd trimester abortions. All the "pro-choice" purists who claim Roe is sacrosanct reveal themselves as hypocrites whenever they defend late-term abortions.
And the argument that they somehow "know" what someone else's motives are is specious at best. It's not too hard to spot who the real fanatics are in this argument: it's those who will twist the meaning of this "sacred" ruling to pursue their agenda, no matter how hypocritical their argument is.
For the record, I believe abortion is a states'-rights issue, to be decided politically, not judicially.
A rough description of the wa
May 12, 2007 - 12:49 ET by KC MulvilleA rough description of the way most Americans view abortion is that the fetus is not really a full human person at conception, and its rights aren't equal to the mother's. Since it's not a real person, they feel they can terminate it. After nine months, however, when the fetus is at the end of its development, it is a full human person, its rights are equal to the mother's, and so you can't kill it. The problem is that we also consider babies born prematurely to be full persons. A five month old outside the womb is legally different than a five month old inside the womb. Logically, then, the physical development of the fetus can’t dictate personhood, since they’re both the same. That leaves the burning question: what does determine personhood?
That leaves you with a dilemma. If the fetus is not a person at conception, you must argue that it becomes a person at some point, and you're required to specify when and why. (Of course, if you believe that a fetus is a person from the moment of conception, you have no dilemma.)
The media never address or analyze the logic behind how Americans view abortion. For an industry that exists to ask questions, that’s a glaring omission. Instead, the media focus on the politics of it, because that’s all they have left to discuss. And like the old proverb about when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail ... the media treat every issue as mere politics. That’s why the media should keep out of the abortion debate, because they (literally) don’t know what they’re talking about.
If it was brought to a vote i
May 12, 2007 - 23:20 ET by The PresbyterIf it was brought to a vote in this country, I'd be willing to be that no abortions after the first tri-mester would pass with flying colors. Of course that would do away with a powerful political tool by both parties. Just a guess that it would pass, I haven't looked at any useless polls to form that opinion.
Pres, i am confused why you w
May 12, 2007 - 23:24 ET byPres, i am confused why you would choose to comment here right after KC wrote
That leaves you with a dilemma. If the fetus is not a person at conception, you must argue that it becomes a person at some point, and you're required to specify when and why
you pick 90 days as a dividing line?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I commented because he wrote
May 13, 2007 - 01:33 ET by The PresbyterI commented because he wrote that. 90 days seems like a reasonable specification. The fetus cannot survive outside the womb. If a woman wants to have an abortion she should make up her mind within the first 90 days, assuming she's aware. Hell, 30 days, 60 days whatever time is takes up until a legally specified time for a woman to make up her mind. After that tough nookies.
I think the decision was made
May 13, 2007 - 22:28 ET by Conservative VoiceI think the decision was made as soon as the pants came down. In the case of rape, she should get cleaned up by a doctor within the first 48 hours. In the case where the life of the mother is at risk, that isn't so black and white.
May 13, 2007 - 22:41 ET byPreshad you commented anywher
May 13, 2007 - 22:42 ET byPres
had you commented anywhere else i would have thought that you had made conclusions similar to the ones you elaborated and would have not commented. It was precisely since the argument presented before your comment was focused on personhood and the inability to make arbitrary divisions such as location, awareness, developement, or viability that it caught my attention.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
I get where you're coming f
May 14, 2007 - 00:30 ET by The PresbyterI get where you're coming from. I was just responding to KC mentioning the personhood aspect. If you make it 90 days then there is less of an argument for personhood than if it was 5 months or 6 months. Idk, maybe i'm still making an irrelevant response.
Claims and stats are always misquoted
May 12, 2007 - 10:31 ET by c5thenMost Americans (60%+) believe that abortion is moraly wrong. 55% believe that abortion should be unavailable except for emergency medical reasons where the life of the mother is imminently at risk. Only about 30% believe that abortion should be available at will for whatever reason at all.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic.
Abortion Polls
May 12, 2007 - 11:03 ET by pocomocoI myself am against abortion. It is the killing of a life pure and simple. Although you might think that I would applaud the percentages you sited they are, in reality, meaningless as I stated in my previous comment.
To state such percentages as a result of a poll of .1% of .1% of .1% of the population is ludicrous. Yet this is what the news media, abortion opponents and proponents base their arguments on.
Until there is a mechanism for polling 300 million people on a particular subject, today’s method of polling is no better than flipping a coin.
It's all about statistics a
May 13, 2007 - 01:43 ET by The PresbyterIt's all about statistics and why there are margins of error, but granted different parts of the country have much higher precentages of people who think differently than other parts. We don't know where they pick from. Plus, the questions they ask are crap, there are plenty of questions I'd like to see asked in polls that would clarify the results.
Most Americans (60%+) believe that abortion is moraly wrong. 55%
believe that abortion should be unavailable except for emergency
medical reasons where the life of the mother is imminently at risk.
Only about 30% believe that abortion should be available at will for
whatever reason at all.
That poll appears to completely leave out how many people think abortion is morally wrong yet still think should be legal up to some point. All I get from this poll is that 30% of the country are complete scumbags. The 30%: "Hey the baby's head is coming out, get the scissors quick before it tries to breathe!"
So yeah, polls are bs IMO also.