Despite "The View’s" left wing slant, the co-hosts, as previously reported, are no fans of Al Sharpton. The ladies discussed the reverend’s latest gaffe implicitly insulting Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith. Joy Behar first mentioned the topic, quoting his inflammatory statement: "those of us who really believe in God will defeat Romney for the White House." Behar did note that Sharpton is now backtracking from the comment.
Guest co-host Marie Osmond, a Mormon, felt Romney’s response was "gracious," and even took a shot at Sharpton.
"Al didn't have a beautiful past himself, so I don’t think that he should necessarily make these statements, you know."
The relevant transcript is below.
JOY BEHAR: Al Sharpton’s in trouble with the Mormons, with Mitt Romney. Do you know about this? Because you’re a Mormon. I thought we’d talk about it.
MARIE OSMOND: Yeah, I'm a Mormon, go ahead and ask me.
BEHAR: He was in a, he was in a, you know, a conference of some sort, a debate with Christopher Hitchens, who is a very well known writer and I believe he’s an atheist.
ELISABETH HASSELBECK: He’s an atheist.
BEHAR: Christopher Hitchens, and so Sharpton-
ROSIE O’DONNELL: He wrote some negative books about Mother Theresa which I just think is funny.
BEHAR: She wasn't all that.
O’DONNELL: Yeah, that’s what he said yeah.
OSMOND: Now I know she's drunk.
BEHAR: I'm quoting him, I’m quoting him.
O’DONNELL: Quoting him. Go ahead, go. What did Al say?
BEHAR: Okay, Al Sharpton, so He said in a debate, he said: "those of us who believe in God-"
HASSELBECK: He said "really believe in God" I think.
BEHAR: "-who really believe in God" -that’s right- "will defeat Romney for the White House."
O’DONNELL: Say it again, say it again.
BEHAR: "Those of us who really believe in God will defeat Romney for the White House," Al Sharpton said. So, so he now is back tracking on that and saying what he meant was people who believe in God as opposed to atheists, not to Mormons.
[...]
OSMOND: I think, I think that the Mormons' the Jews were the only people that had extermination orders against them because of their beliefs. But, but, the point is, going back to Mitt, is, you know, I think that everybody should study the candidates. I think that Mitt's response was gracious after what was said.
BEHAR: He said it could be construed as a bigoted remark.
HASSELBECK: He said he didn't think he was a bigoted man -- a bigot himself, but the concept [unintelligible]
OSMOND: Al didn't have a beautiful past himself, so I don’t think that he should necessarily make these statements, you know.
—Justin McCarthy is a news analyst at Media Research Center.
Comments Policy
I'm still reeling from the ne
May 10, 2007 - 14:38 ET by QueenMumI'm still reeling from the news that Marie Osmond was a guest on "The View".
"...in trouble with the
May 10, 2007 - 14:57 ET by Chris Norman"...in trouble with the Mormons".
Just the Mormons, Ms. Behar? Sharpton should be in trouble with a lot more people than just the Mormons. Anyone who isn't bigoted should denounce his statement.
The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
- Arabian Proverb
Chris, anyone who is a Christ
May 10, 2007 - 21:58 ET by MikeBChris, anyone who is a Christian should denounce Sharpton. He has habitually engaged in lying, slander, bearing false witness, and so forth. If the church in which he claims to be a minister were following the principles put down in the New Testament, Sharpton would have been excommunicated from the church. "By their fruits you shall know them."
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
I have read many posts on thi
May 10, 2007 - 15:47 ET by buddycI have read many posts on this board that show more bigotry to Mormons than Sharpton has shown. I had heard it would happen. I didn't believe it would.
It is really sad and discouraging to me as a conservative and as a Mormon. It is something I will never forget.
...please feel free to elabor
May 10, 2007 - 15:49 ET by TruthMonger...please feel free to elaborate...
I'm not a Mormon, but
May 10, 2007 - 15:52 ET by RJI'm not a Mormon, but it makes me pretty sad, too.
Did I miss this anti-Mormon t
May 10, 2007 - 15:54 ET by TruthMongerDid I miss this anti-Mormon tirade? What gives...?
Weren't we just complaining about the Mormon bashing here?
It's been showing up sporadically
May 10, 2007 - 15:56 ET by RJIt's been showing up sporadically for several months, now.
Any details on what was said
May 10, 2007 - 15:59 ET by TruthMongerAny details on what was said or do I just keep getting the generalizations here...?
Like I said, TM
May 10, 2007 - 16:08 ET by RJLike I said, TM, it's been sporadic for several months. I haven't kept a list. It's been just here and there, but every few days.
If you need an example, fender (not the only one) has been particularly bigoted toward Mormons over the past few days.
So it's not the NB site per s
May 10, 2007 - 16:16 ET by TruthMongerSo it's not the NB site per se...it's lefty trolls that pop in and out...
Hey buddy sorry to break it to you but the world is full of bigots. As a conservative Christian I also get it first hand on a daily basis everywhere I go...
TM
May 10, 2007 - 16:21 ET by RJI suspect if you haven't seen the bigotry here, you haven't been looking. Just above, pepsi man says "john (wrong name, but what the hey) smith was a con artist."
And it's not just "trolls." Several "conservative" posters have been taking shots pretty regularly.
There has been plenty of bigo
May 10, 2007 - 16:55 ET by bigtimerThere has been plenty of bigotry here about Romney and the Mormon religion, for quite awhile now, not just recently.
Not all trolls whatsoever.
RJ,Must agree with you. I'v
May 10, 2007 - 19:30 ET by BlondeRJ,
Must agree with you. I've been watching the religious bickering here for a while, with concern. And you're correct again, by saying it's not just the "trolls" who get down and dirty. From all different sides, too.
It concerned me enough that I've contacted several of the Mormon posters here, who seem not overly surprised, nor suprisingly, even offended at the response to their faith. Which I find to be even a sadder comment.
I am truly appalled at the lack of civility when it comes to the topic of faith. It rapidly degenerates into " my xxxx is better than your yyyy", the name calling begins, and it goes downhill from there.
One's faith is a deeply personal thing, and to attack someone for having a different faith just bothers me on a visceral level. We all have our own faith's, based upon or upbringings, and our faith is at the core of who each of us are as individuals.
The constant ugliness that always erupts once the topic is broached here bothers me to no end. I wish the editors would make a ruling that any an all discussions of this sort be taken over to the forum posts (which can be great reading). We do a disservice to this site to allow this sort of thing to continue here, IMO.
Sorry, I blathered on....but the ugliness, total lack of respect, and sheer nastiness of these type of arguments really bother me. That's it, I'm done. And saddened, too.
Well said Blonde. It truely
May 10, 2007 - 23:42 ET by Conservative VoiceWell said Blonde. It truely is sad that people have taken what Sharpen said and taken the opportunity to attack someone's beliefs. It is sad that they call themselves Christian, yet have so much hate and bigotry. That is offensive. What is offensive to me is all this argument over Mormons, that we can't find common ground to unite. We are at war, not only with muslim extremists, but with liberal whackos. I know that my beliefs are different than many people here, but I still will respect their beliefs, all I ask is they do the same.
As far as having a healthy amount of skeptism over some religious faith (including your own), is healthy and OK. Where it becomes wrong is when you create a spirit of contention over a person's religion and attack them. So much energy has been wasted today.
CV,It just never ceases to am
May 10, 2007 - 23:52 ET by BlondeCV,
It just never ceases to amaze me that people even try to argue faith with each other. Particularly in a forum like NB.
After all, faith is the core of one's being. So how (and more importantly why) do the supremely sure argue here at all, knowing that their own position is absolutely spot-on, while also knowing (okay, maybe believing it isn't quite so) that their opponent's POV is a moveable thing?
It's a pointless exercise, and in a forum like this, one which I find to be offensive, in the extreme.
But, hey, that's just me.
Exactly, and you can't prove
May 11, 2007 - 00:05 ET by Conservative VoiceExactly, and you can't prove faith. Why post all the doctorine differences you have with another religion, especially on NB? It is offensive. And how does "proving" another religion to be "weird" or "off" help your own position? It doesn't, all it does it make you out to be an angry hate filled idiot. The only people they collect to their way of thinking are other angry hate filled idiots...how shallow their belief system must be when the only thing they have is their common hatred.
When it comes to a person's character, I rarely look at what religion they go to, rather I judge them by their character traits...are they moral? honest? do they practice what they believe? Its a real shame that fellow Christian conservatives are so stuck with their hate that they can't see friends among them, and the division will destroy us all.
Blonde
May 11, 2007 - 17:33 ET by Mr. BishopAs I read your post, I see that you find it sad that CV and myself are not offended, or surprised at the pot shots taken against our religion. You're absolutely correct. I am neither surprised, nor offended. The reason I am not surprised is because it is something I have become accustomed to. As I said previously, in a country founded based upon religious tolerance, and freedom to practice -- the LDS church has never had the chance to do so. Also, I do not take offense because it is something that has happened throughout my life. I don't smear another person's religion because it is something they cherish. For someone else to do it (as I have said concerning name-calling), it says more about them, then it does me.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Mark's post yesterday May 9,
May 10, 2007 - 16:42 ET by vrwc13Mark's post yesterday May 9, has a bit of dialog. Its the one about Zahn on CNN.
face piles of trials with smiles
buddyc...Please don't be disc
May 10, 2007 - 16:00 ET by bigtimerbuddyc...
Please don't be discouraged.
I feel the majority of people in this country do not feel the way the media and others here do, this is not portraying this country as a whole...IMHO.
It is despicable and disgusting what they are doing to this man.
He is my number one pick if Thompson doesn't run.
I am not Mormon, but my best friends were, and others too.
They just want him gone as as politics go, and if they can use his religion to do it, they will;
Politics really is a blood sport...something Mitt had to know before going into this.
I've not seen one shred of an
May 10, 2007 - 16:07 ET by TruthMongerI've not seen one shred of anti-Mormon bigotry on this site - nothing more than theological differences at most...
Sorrt TM but there are a lot
May 10, 2007 - 16:57 ET by Airforce_5_OSorrt TM but there are a lot of bashing going on in the last couple of days beyond just differences.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
buddyc: I haven't personally
May 10, 2007 - 16:08 ET by QueenMumbuddyc: I haven't personally seen it here; but I'm aware that many evangelical Christians are very critical of the Mormon faith. I have seen some folks here get pretty fired up on religious issues. I wouldn't be surprised if, at one time or another, someone spoke disparingly (sp?) about the Mormons. Of course, I could see how the polygamy issue in particular could spark some pretty heated debate.
(Note: I realize that polygamy is no longer practiced in the mainstream of Mormonism. But it makes for an easy target if one wishes to cast asparagus.)
P.S. You also have those who like to come here to promote the liberal agenda. Wouldn't be surprised if there are some "posers" who are tossing anti-Mormon bombs in order to discredit the site and/or are seriously trying to convince others that Mitt Romney is some kind of religious wacko.
Polygamy
May 11, 2007 - 16:52 ET by Mr. BishopPolygamy is one of the oldest touted anti-Mormon positions, so don't worry -- it's not something that we are not accustomed to hearing about. However, allow me to shed a little bit of light on the subject from the time when it became a church-wide practice...
The LDS church was kicked out of 4 states, as has been mentioned previously: New York, Iowa, Ohio and Missouri (even Illinois, to a point). During the last move, to the Utah territory, a lot of men (and women, but mostly men) died en route to their new home. During this time (the 19th Century), women could not own property. As such, legally, the women whose husbands died, were really unable to, legally, provide for their children. At this point, the men in the church, began to take upon themselves, more wives, as a way to help provide for their well being. Granted, there are some that took it too far, and refused to let it go when the practice ceased. However, those that refused to give up the practice, were excommunicated. Anyhow, the US government passed an anti-polygamy set of laws, as a way to quash what they deemed, as the Mormon rebellion (so, for anyone who thinks that the federal government would never force a religion to do anything, such as recognize gay marriage, you are wrong). Shortly after this passage of laws, the federal government also sent in Cav troops to lay the city of Salt Lake, to waste. When they got there, however, the Mormons (who had heard of the oncoming troops), had already burried the entirety of the city, most especially the beginnings of the temple, and left for fear of extermination. Eventually, they returned, and the temple was completed, polygamy was abolished throughout the religion, and people moved on.
Now, here is what bothers me, to no end -- my religion is something personal to me. I don't force it upon anyone, and I don't force someone to listen to its principles and doctrine. Nor do I sit around, and tell someone that their religion is BS, they are going to "hell" for their beliefs, or that they believe falsely for having the audacity to follow their own heart(s). I, truly, don't grasp the reason for some to completely slander/libel a religion, except for their own personal fearful reasons. Basically... those that continually post about the LDS church on here (two stand out in my mind), you don't know a thing about it. You have posted nonsense, as truths, and ridicule and demean for no reason at all, except your own personal hatred. I'd really suggest you find some other outlet for your hatred -- there's no reason to take it out on a religion you neither understand, nor want to understand.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Dude... lighten up..
Just who the hell Sharpton th
May 10, 2007 - 15:54 ET by bigtimerJust who the hell Sharpton thinks he is makes me furious.
He owes an apology that will mean nothing anyway if he ever did...which he won't.
He will never apologize for any of his filthy bigoted hypocrisy of the years.
The man is a criminal as far as I am concerned.
Never held a real job in his whole worthless life.
He will go down in history as a charlatan...throw in Jackson too.
al & jesse
May 10, 2007 - 16:53 ET by tejanodiablodon't throw in jesse, toss him out .. along with al .. of a plane at 50,000 feet so they'll have time to repent ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
And Bill Maher.Had to throw h
May 10, 2007 - 17:03 ET by TeamcheeserAnd Bill Maher.
Had to throw his name in. Ever since seeing him on American Idol last night I've been ticked off! He's as worthless as the rest.
Sharpton is Saddening
May 10, 2007 - 17:11 ET by deerjerkydaveRemember last presidential election cycle when John Stossel interviewed Sharpton? Stossel asked him what he thought would be a fair tax rate for the rich. Sharpton replied, "somewhere around 15 percent." Stossel then dropped the bomb on Sharpton when he revealed that the rich already pay 34% of all taxes.
Ever since that interview I realized how out of touch Sharpton is with reality. I actually feel sorry for the guy. He has no problem having Imus grovel at his feet with unending apologies. How about Sharpton demonstrate a similar degree of penitence at Romney's feet? I'm sure Romney would extend the forgiveness Sharpton denied to Imus.
Hey Team........I think Bil
May 10, 2007 - 17:20 ET by charlietexasHey Team........I think Bill Mahar was at American Idol to pick up on Jordin...shes cute, and 17, just his age group. Hes a pig.
charlie,I was thinking, who i
May 10, 2007 - 17:43 ET by msh1973charlie,
I was thinking, who invited him. He gives me the creeps.
I fear I will soon be labeled
May 10, 2007 - 17:26 ET by Casey97I fear I will soon be labeled a bigot or intolerant or whatever. I hate to defend the Godfather of Soul’s former tour manager, but what did Reverend (sic) Al say that was so wrong?
Just google search the following:
“Mormons black 1978 Spencer W. Kimball”
You can read to your hearts content about their tolerance. Starting that year they allowed black males to enter the priesthood.
As for Rev Al’s “People who really believe in God…” claim, we can only look at what Mormons themselves say they believe. Here from their own scripture - from Doctrine and Covenants (D&C), what they believe. Please note this is not an anti-Mormon site I link to, but LDS.ORG.
God is just like me and you, and we can become God!http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/22#22
“THE FATHER HAS A BODY OF FLESH AND BONES AS TANGIBLE AS MAN’S; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” (This is in direct opposition to the Bible which states God is a Spirit: John 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.")
Just be good and you too can be God! http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/1-24#1
THEN SHALL THEY BE GODS, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; THEN SHALL THEY BE ABOVE ALL, because all things are subject unto them. THEN SHALL THEY BE GODS, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the EXALTATION and CONTINUATION OF THE LIVES, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
Wow they really believe that we can be God! http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/88/29,107#29
And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be MADE EQUAL WITH HIM (GOD).
Just to sum it up:
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html
on this page they explain what is meant by “exaltation”. This is a direct quote from the above link to LDS web page:
*They will become gods.
*They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
*They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge.
Recently the religious right railed against the da Vinci Code. I thought it was a good fiction book, but went to far by claiming everything in it was true. One example is the Priori of Scion being formed hundreds of years ago, when it started in the 1960’s. Well anyway people railed against the book because it claimed Jesus had a wife. Look at the Mormon Journal of Discourses: http://www.journalofdiscourses.org
Jesus had many wives and children: "JESUS CHRIST WAS MARRIED AT CANA OF GALILEE, THAT MARY, MARTHA, AND OTHERS WERE HIS WIVES, AND THAT HE BEGAT CHILDREN." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 210)
Here is a good one from the Journal of Discourses. Mary was not a virgin impregnated by the Holy Spirit, but a woman impregnated by the first Man (also known as God)! God had physical sex with Mary. "When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; Jesus was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 121)
Maybe that was not clear, try this one: "The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten of his father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, page 115)
Please all of the quotes above are from the Mormon’s own web page and their own scripture links, and this is not my opinion but theirs. If you are a Mormon and this is not what you believe, I apologize and would hope you would contact someone within your church to correct the Cyber terrorism that has modified your own scriptures. Surely it is a hateful person to who has modified your own web page to attempt to paint your organization as group of heretical blasphemers. You should demand your web presence to truly reflect what you believe.
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Wrong place for a religious debate
May 10, 2007 - 19:08 ET by deerjerkydaveCasey97, perhaps you should take your religious concerns to the debate board over at beliefnet.com. Usually Mormons have pretty good responses to them. I'm sure that you will find a much more warm response over there.
As for people becoming Gods, check out Romans 8:16-17:
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Tell me, what do you think it means to be an "heir of God"?
Are you saying that on these
May 11, 2007 - 00:21 ET byAre you saying that on these main threads, Mormonism can be talked about in a positive way, but that if anyone disagrees, we are to take it in a closet?
This thread is about a religion, so commenting would be about a religion and people will tend to do so from where they stand with their own faith-beliefs.
As for Romans 8:16-17,
It is in NO way saying that children of God's will be equal to God. A joint-heir, does not make a person equal to who they are heirs with.
And I find it amazing that it is okay for with you if YOU talk about your faith beliefs, but you tell Casey to move-it-along to another place, with hers. That is quite hypocritical of you.
Debra...
Debra...
I would say that when talking
May 11, 2007 - 00:41 ET by Conservative VoiceI would say that when talking about another person's religion you should be respectful and find positive things to say. Areas where you disagree with should also be done with respect, ie not in attack mode.
As far as your interpretation "it is in NO way..." it is just that, your interpretation. Can you tell me one thing you agree with Mormons on? Can you tell me how "proving" my religion to be "blasphamous" that somehow your religion "I'm not catholic nor Mormon" to be true? Can you tell me how your holy war will accomplish anything good? How will it help you meet your goals in helping America to be more righteous? Your hatred and energy spent on Mormons is greater than your hatred against gays, and that is saying something. Its a shame.
Hi Conservative Voice, It goe
May 11, 2007 - 01:13 ET byHi Conservative Voice,
It goes against my faith-beliefs to say anything positive about a faith-belief that goes against my God, nor would I say anything 'good' about such a belief system. And I do not respect any faith-belief that goes against my God. However, I do agree that attacking people on NBs is not cool and that such goes both ways. But, I do not find talking against someone's faith, to be attacking the person and this thread has both “religion” and “Christianity” as category tags.
Though, I will post with and from the standpoint of my faith-beliefs, here on this thread, I will not debate my faith-beliefs here. If you wish to debate my faith-beliefs, feel free to either private message me or begin a post over on the forum boards. The same goes for Mormonism, I will post on the topic here, because it is the topic, but if you wish to debate my posts to the degree that you are, please do so privately or on a forum post board.
I will answer your question about how my posts will hopefully help America to be more righteous: There is only one way that America can be more righteous, and that is for more people to come to a true and saving faith in the true God, Jesus Christ, the Risen Savior. It is only in Christ that a person can truly grow and mature and be of any true 'good' for this nation. This is why so many of our founding fathers were so successful in what they did for America.
Without Godly people, there would be no America.
Debra...
really? I can find good in
May 11, 2007 - 12:17 ET by Conservative Voicereally? I can find good in muslims, hindus, even pagan religions. You teach like a Democrat running election..."hate the republicans, vote for me".
"I do not find talking against someone's faith, to be attacking the person "
Attacking someone's faith is attacking the very core of a person, and again how it somehow makes your faith more true is beyond me.
"this thread has both “religion” and “Christianity” as category tags"
This thread is about Al Sharpton and the relationship he has with the media. But you are too blind to see that, instead you own Als comments and his bigotry.
"I will not debate my faith-beliefs here."
Wow, that sounds a bit hypocritical, as I have said the same to you on other threads. This thread was not an open invitation to debate mormonism. I will be more than happy to discuss any religious topic with you, as long it is done in a respectful non-threatening way.
Debra, you are a Pharasee troll when you can't find any good in another person's beliefs. Like I said, you spend as much or more time and energy telling people why they shouldn't be Mormon ( or Catholic ) than you do on any other topic. Last I checked Mormons are not enemies of America, in fact many Mormons have done a lot to help America be great.
What did Sharpton do? He wa
May 10, 2007 - 21:12 ET by dahliatraversWhat did Sharpton do? He was intolerant and disparaging of a religion. And then tried to claim he wasn't.
Casey97, I take it that the point of your post is that you have reservations about a Mormon being President? If so, what specifically are those reservations?
Marie basically said nothing
May 10, 2007 - 22:59 ET byMarie basically said nothing much at all here. Why? Because she knows that her faith is greatly different from true Christianity. They only say that they are Christians in order to get more people into Mormonism.
Here is a post on Mormonism. Note the part in it that refers to Donny Osmond's site and him thinking that being a 'god' some day, is something for him as a Mormon, to "look forward to."
The main stream media is missing the TRUE news over Romney,by a mile.
The LDS church, whether called Mormon or not, is in no way part of the Biblical Christian church. I am not saying that there are no members who are saved, who have just not come out of that church. But the LDS church on a whole comes with a different message, contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
Joseph Smith's actions and words clearly claimed that the book of Mormon was given to him because the Bible throughout time became corrupt. This teaching goes against the true Bible. Read this scripture:
Psalm 12:6-7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
For the Book of Mormon to be correct, the Bible cannot be correct--they cannot both be correct. Hence no matter what the Book of Mormon does NOT coincide with The Bible.
Please see: http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1. On this page you will find Joseph Smith explaining that he saw different Christian churches not agreeing (Presbyterians, Baptists, and Methodists). Joseph said that he prayed to God to know which church was correct. Joseph Smith said that "God" came with "Jesus" to Joseph and told Joseph to listen to "His (God's) Son" (there at the time). He said that "Jesus" told him (right there personally) that none of the churches were correct, that they were all corrupt. See number "19," on the page (http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1).
Now go back to that page and read number "34", which goes on to say what else Joseph claims "Jesus" said to him.
34 He ["Jesus"] said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the ful[l]ness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
See where this says, "The fullness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it...” If Joseph believed the Bible had the fullness of the everlasting Gospel in it, then why does he claim that God had to give it to him in this other book, a book that was not The Bible?
Fact is, Joseph did not believe that the Bible had the ‘ful[l]ness of the everlasting Gospel' in it. Joseph believed that the teachings of the Presbyterians, the Baptists, and the Methodists were totally corrupted. Read that site, and see it for yourself. Joseph Smith came with a DIFFERENT gospel than that which is in The Holy Bible.
God's Word says:
Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
The Bible is proven over and over again, to be the true Word of God. It is by faith that we believe on Jesus Christ, and faith comes by hearing The Word of God! Satan is who would want to nullify the authenticity of The Word of God and bring it down to below the level of the Book of Mormon and elevate the Book of Mormon over The Bible. It is Satan who would say that the Book of Mormon has the truth, and that The Bible is lacking. It is Satan who has attempted throughout the history of man, to take away the validity of God's Word.
We must not dismiss the question of IS the Book of Mormon is a true word from God, nor should we ever listen to someone who claims that the contents in it points to who the Book of Mormon calls Jesus and salvation in him. We must never take a bite of blaspheme, because someone tells us to. We must always look to God’s true Word, the Holy Bible, for our instructions in righteousness.
The Jesus of the Book of Mormon is no more the Jesus of The Bible, than the god of the Muslim church (Allah) is the God of The Bible. The Jesus of the Book of Mormon is not "One with The Father" -- he is the brother of Lucifer, married with children, and his father (the true Mormon god) is a man from a different planet who attained the position of the god of this planet.
Donny Osmond is a famous Mormon, who on his site is quite outspoken for his faith. Go to www.osmond.com and click on Donny and scroll down to where he has a link about his faith. Go to the two 'question' links and read it for yourself, do specific word searches once there. (Notice on the question Donny answers pertaining to men of the Mormon Church becoming gods; Donny finds it something to look forward to in this life.)
The "Biblical Jesus Christ", is The Lord God and Risen Savior. He is the only way!
And God's Word will NEVER fade.
Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever." (The Holy Bible, The Word of God)
As Paul was, I am an ambassador for Jesus Christ, and I will speak boldly, as I out to speak.
Ephesians 6:20 "For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."
I will not dismiss the question of if the Mormon book is of God. GOD would NOT have me dismiss such -- I am told by God to not trust every spirit, but to test the Spirit and see if it be of God.
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Jesus Christ is the Word made Flesh; He is God in The Flesh. The Book of Mormon does not teach this.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ...John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
I put nothing before God. My first allegiance is to The True God of The Bible. And God Himself puts His Word above His very name!
Psalm 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." ('he' is referring to Jesus Christ, read the chapter in Revelation.)
Yes, God's Word is of the most importance. And I totally and indefatigably trust my God to do as HE said He would do, that He preserves his Word forever - and that would include every generation!
False prophecy is that which claims to be the Word of God, and is not. False prophecy is NO little thing with God. We are to line up all teachings that claim to be of God, with the Word of God, and if they do NOT fully and totally line up with The Word of God, we are to dismiss them entirely!
Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
The Book of Mormon is false prophecy; it’s very reason for being is an offense to The Word of God. Joseph Smith's account for how his Book of Mormon came to be and for just what it is, says that the Bible is wrong and he was given the "fullness of the gospel." Read what God's Word says to us true believers:
Romans 16:17-18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
Anyone who comes with a message that seeks to get people to even consider the Book of Mormon as a true Word of God, comes to cause division and offences to true doctrine of The Holy Bible. And scripture says we are to mark such a person and avoid them.
Debra J.M. Smith
www.InformingChristians.com
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
If you wish to show someone this, it can also be found at:
http://www.debrajmsmith.blogspot.com/
Evening Casey and Debra... Ar
May 10, 2007 - 23:08 ET by bigtimerEvening Casey and Debra...
Are you two related in any way shape or form?
Married, or go to same site or church? Your links look a lot alike.
Just curious.
Hi bigtimer,How are you tonig
May 11, 2007 - 00:18 ET byHi bigtimer,
How are you tonight?
All true Christians are related, by the blood of Christ.
Debra...
:o)
You dodged my direct questio
May 11, 2007 - 00:26 ET by bigtimerYou dodged my direct question Debra.
I would appreciate an answer...a real answer.
Are you and Casey related by marriage, or are you married...let us start there.
If not, Do you belong to the same congregation?
Bigtimer,I answered you. Chri
May 11, 2007 - 00:41 ET byBigtimer,
I answered you. Christians are related by the blood of Christ.
Debra...
Okay, gotcha ya Deb...Casey i
May 11, 2007 - 00:52 ET by bigtimerOkay, gotcha ya Deb...Casey is your husband.
(I have noticed he has disappeared)
A lot of the same links...says it all.
bigimer,I did not even realiz
May 11, 2007 - 01:23 ET bybigimer,
I did not even realize that Casey was a man. I thought Casey was the first name of a woman. That name used to be a female on a show that I watched years ago.
Nonetheless, what Casey said here on this thread is totally right. Casey is 100% correct in his post on Mormonism and is 100% on topic with this thread and should not come under attack for posting on topic. Everything Casey said, can be verified.
Debra...
I see you and Casey have been
May 11, 2007 - 01:37 ET by bigtimerI see you and Casey have been here only two days apart....coincidence...I think not.
Same congregation, I think so.
Matters not to me.
You attempting to keep it a big secret with your non-answers to me is...I asked a simple question because of the links you two both had, so it is obvious she/he is with you.
But to inflict every single religious subject your way or no way belongs on your site, go there Debra, or start a forum thread...after-all that is what you are here for, tryng to get people to your site.
Free country.
Have a good evening...
bigtimer, You busted me. I am
May 11, 2007 - 02:01 ET bybigtimer,
You busted me. I am here for selfish reasons. That is why I do not DARE speak from my heart and say what I really believe!
But seriously, there is not a poster on here who has a blog and or a website, who is not hoping to have those who read their words here, for the first time, see their own blog and or website. And I do what I can do to have people from my site find NewsBusters; most every day there is a front-page link on my site to NewsBusters. Many people found NewsBusters originally from my site –people have emailed me about NewsBusters. I reach a lot of people with my site in entirely different areas of the net. (I have an online business and my activism site is linked to it. My business reaches a lot of mothers, mothers who care about the future of their children here in America.)
As for me taking my posts to the forums? I am on topic for this thread, as is Casey. It is you who is trying to make this thread about me. I will be happy to discuss 'me' elsewhere.
And yes, it is a free country, but such came with a price --a price that so many today are willing to ignore.
You have a good evening too.
Debra...
Well, that explains the recent inrush of intolerant religious po
May 11, 2007 - 10:22 ET by RJWell, that could explain the recent inrush of prosletizing, intolerant religious posters on the site!
Shame.
"there is not a poster o
May 11, 2007 - 12:04 ET by Conservative Voice"there is not a poster on here who has a blog and or a website"
No, I would say most posters here do not have a separate blog and or website.
As far as not daring to speak from the heart, I already feel your disdain for my beliefs, can't imagine how much more hate and disdain you have if you felt comfortable discussing with the flood gates open.
As far as being on topic, though Mormonism was mentioned, I believe the topic at hand was Al Sharpton's anti-mormon remarks and how the media is not making it an Imus issue...you took the opportunity (with others ) to not only agree with Al, but take it further. Amazing you can't find one thing that you can agree with concerning the Mormon faith, but you can agree with Al Sharpton! There are far greater threats to our way of life than your insecurities with Mormons, like a war.
Well Debra,You busted me. I a
May 11, 2007 - 13:57 ET by bigtimerWell Debra,
You busted me. I am here for selfish reasons. That is why I do not DARE speak from my heart and say what I really believe!
I see you answered me from last nights post, your statement above says a lot.
Where you can possibly say you haven't been able to dare to speak your mind is BS.
Period.
You have been doing that from day one.
It is your way or the highway.
Narcissistic ...as usual as far as I am concerned.
Carry on, as I know you will....Casey too, like I said, it wasn't hard to figure you two out, you are three days apart from when you joined here, you never answered my simple questions so I started looking, and your links were the same...pretty simple to figure out.
Please use your own site to preach to others...as it is getting rather old, and quite boring.
bigtimer? Do you know what 's
May 11, 2007 - 16:21 ET bybigtimer?
Do you know what 'sarcasm' is?
I was being sarcastic when I said, "You busted me, that's why I do not DARE speak from my heart and say what I really believe."
I have done nothing BUT speak from my heart and say what I really believe. The sarcasm was pointing out the obvious, that if I were here for selfish reasons, I would be kissing up to everyone and being a huge fake.
Wow.... I cannot believe that you did not get that out of what I said.
Debra...
Debra,This site is about hypo
May 11, 2007 - 16:52 ET by bigtimerDebra,
This site is about hypocrisy in the liberal media.
I have had enough of your ever-lovin' preaching to all of us.
Move on.
Preferably to your site.
Go save the leftists...there are plenty of site...for you to get kicked off of.
BT, Thanks for busting this o
May 11, 2007 - 14:34 ET by Airforce_5_OBT, Thanks for busting this one out for me. I refuse to engage in anymore of this hatred being spread.
If these people were really of Christ then they would except the differences and not attack.
Christ himself was about loving all those around him.
Whenever someone decides to go after another’s beliefs I am reminded of his lesson of throwing the first stone.
I am amazed she said she cannot love something that is against “her” God. HMMMMMMMMMM
I thought he was everybody’s God.
Af...He is as far as I am con
May 11, 2007 - 14:40 ET by bigtimerAf...
He is as far as I am concerned.
If I don't catch you later, you have a good day and week-end....I am going to have to get off of this pretty soon, get some work done.
LOL!
Reading this thread has pro
May 11, 2007 - 14:46 ET by DyneReading this thread has prompted me to change my signature. I'll let the Savior speak for Himself.
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:20
Not throwing stones. Just po
May 11, 2007 - 15:19 ET by Casey97Not throwing stones. Just posted a link. If you have a poblem with the content of the link contact the webmaster of that page.
In the end there are only 2 religions in the world. JUST TWO: One religion says Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, the other doesn’t. John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
You may say “Wow that’s pretty intolerant.” But Jesus said Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
What was your purpose in posting the link?
May 11, 2007 - 15:31 ET by RJWhat was your purpose in posting the link here on this site, if it wasn't an attempt to denegrate another faith?
Shame on you
Amen, Casey....Revelation 6:9
May 11, 2007 - 16:30 ET byAmen, Casey....
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Ephesians 6:20 "For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."
Debra...
Take it to your religious site
May 11, 2007 - 16:33 ET by RJTake it to your religious site, bigot
Debra,Your continual attacks
May 10, 2007 - 23:10 ET by BlondeDebra,
Your continual attacks on those here who adhere to another faith is disgusting, and more trollish than even the worst liberal trolls.
Please cease and desist.
You are the worst kind of Christian.....you're the right wing lunatic wingbat who gives the rest of us conservatives a bad name.
If you can post, and stay on topic without denigrating others, fine, have a good time. But when you act like this, I seriously must question how you can possibly call yourself a Christian.
Agree 100% Blonde
May 11, 2007 - 10:29 ET by RJAgree 100% Blonde. Their bigotry is disgusting.
If this is a vote, then I'm
May 11, 2007 - 16:31 ET by RDWIf this is a vote, then I'm with Blonde and CV.
Wow, Blonde, way to further t
May 11, 2007 - 10:05 ET by Casey97Wow, Blonde, way to further the argument. You address facts with derisive name-calling. Aren’t Mormons beliefs different? If they are not different, why all the discussion? Why can’t we point out what they believe, without being labeled?
Sorry, to burst your bubble, but I do not even know Deb, and my wife’s name is Michelle. The reason our arguments sound similar is because they are the argument of all us right wing evangelical Christians. When you get to a point where you are not on the same side of the argument as the Christian whackos, which side does that put you on?
I did not post after 5:00 pm my time because I have two jobs, and only the 8-5 job allows me time to post my HATE comments. Nowhere in my comment did I say I hate Mormons. Nowhere in my comment did I say I would not vote for a Mormon. The links I provided were from the LDS web page, and not some anti-Mormon hate site. If you have a problem with the comments, then you have a problem with Mormons. I did not say this is what Mormons believe; Mormons say this is what we believe. Do not shoot the Christian messenger because you do not like the Mormon message.
The Newsbusters forum usually allows for open and honest debate. The use of facts is prized here. However, the PC police seem to have invaded this board to the point it looks more like KOS or Democratunderground than Newsbusters. Here is a picture we all are familiar with: one side of an argument uses reason and facts, the other side calls them an intolerant hatemonger. If facts have no place in this forum, then are we any better than the other side? If you are using the standard liberal methods of argument, you need to re-address your position.
As for what I believe, here is a web page that sums it up: http://www.biblegateway.com start with Genesis 1:1 and read through Revelation 22:21. This is what I believe. The reason I am a conservative is because they more often represent and uphold those beliefs.
Guess what, I am also against Rudy. Does that make me intolerant to cross-dressers who are for an Illegal Alien Lesbian and her wife, getting taxpayer funded abortions, at a clinic built on paved-over hunting land, no longer needed due to restrictive gun laws (oh, and to prevent global warming, she tanks-up her hybrid with Hugo’s gas)?
I personally could care less what Mormons believe, but I do hate liars. For someone to try to paint their own faith differently to appear mainstream is abhorrent. If he were devout in his own faith, when Rev Al said you’re different, he would have said, “yes I am different, this is what I believe and why.” This man is all to concerned with his appearance. Pro-abortion and pro-gay one day, and then that changes when he runs for President. Since he is a lifelong Mormon, we must ask ourselves, what are the Mormon stances on Gays, abortion and liars? Are they against it now, but not when he ran for senate? Even on the gun issue, Romney should have said "I am not a big hunter or gun owner, but I support gun rights." Instead he claims to be a lifetime NRA member and hunter. Unfortunately, it has been shown that this lifetime membership started in August 2006, and he has only been hunting a handful of times. Do I think Ms. Bill Clinton the Baptist or Mr. Hussein Obama the Madrasa educated non-Muslim will be better? No. But when someone is shown as an obvious liar and fake, it usually precluded the conservative base from voting for them.
Look I am sure Romney is a good guy. He is probably as good a Mormon as Harry Reid.
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Because you behave like agenda-driven liberals
May 11, 2007 - 10:51 ET by RJ"Why can't we point out what they believe..." Because there are those on this board who behave like agenda-driven liberals, twisting the facts to support their view.
"...without being labeled?" Because, labeling is exactly what the religious hypocrits here do.
"Painting their own faith differently?" Differently from what? The agenda-driven religionists' interpretation of their faith? All faiths are "different", but you and your kind use that difference as a club of hate.
"Way to further the argument." Right. Under the guise of "furthering the argument" the agenda-driven religionists are doing nothing less than hate-driven prosletizing.
Shame on you.
“"Why can't we point o
May 11, 2007 - 11:55 ET by Casey97“"Why can't we point out what they believe..." Because there are those on this board who behave like agenda-driven liberals, twisting the facts to support their view.”…Please point out what facts have been twisted. Every thing in my post is linked to LDS web page. If you have a problem with what I posted, then you have a problem with them.
“"...without being labeled?" Because, labeling is exactly what the religious hypocrits here do.”…The only labeling is so far has been by your side of the argument (agenda-driven religionist) (you and your kind) (hate-driven prosletizing [sic]). These are all quotes from just one of your posts. I neither have the time or inclination to post all the disparaging remarks. Nowhere do I label Mr. Romney. It is you, who can not discuss this without name calling. Because you are impotent in the face of facts you lash out by name calling. Again THIS IS NOT WHAT I SAY THEY BELIEVE. THIS IS WHAT THEY SAY THEY BELIEVE.
“"Painting their own faith differently?" Differently from what? The agenda-driven religionists' interpretation of their faith? All faiths are "different", but you and your kind use that difference as a club of hate.”… I made no interpretations. I cut and pasted from their site! Any opinions, or interpretations are that of the reader. If you have a problem with what you read, then maybe it is you who are anti-Mormon. As a person of faith I am driven to share my beliefs. By sharing the Mormon beliefs, how am I being anything but supportive of Mormonism?
“"Way to further the argument." Right. Under the guise of "furthering the argument" the agenda-driven religionists are doing nothing less than hate-driven prosletizing.”…Where is my hate? You have quoted what I said, and I quoted what you said, does this mean you hate me or I you. I can’t speak for you, but I do not hate you. I do not call you names or label you because you disagree with what I post. I have not called you anti-Christian because of you and your ilk’s repeated attempts at painting me as intolerant.
Sorry, you do not agree with the things I posted. However, no one has posted anything in opposition to what was posted. This closely represents third grader arguments.
Third grader 1 premise: I believe Superman is better than Spiderman
Third grader 1 reasoning: Because he can fly
Third grader 2 premise: I disagree
Third grader 2 reasoning: Because third grader 1 is stupid
Dazzling logical argument.
In conclusion: I do not make any dispersion about Mormons. Use the links to their on web page and read what they believe. Decide for yourself. One side of this argument is concerned with facts. The other side is concerned about labeling people as intolerant.
I guess we should be tolerant of all views except the views of those crazy Christians.
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Well, I'm not surprised to see that your attack mentality
May 11, 2007 - 12:14 ET by RJWell, I'm not surprised to see that your attack mentality carries over to anyone who points out the ugliness of your behavior. Truth is, your kind are no dif