In going on Paula Zahn's CNN show this evening, was Al Sharpton's goal to quell the controversy surrounding his comments about Mormonism, or to inflame it? If the former, he failed miserably. If the latter, he succeeded admirably. Far from retracting his earlier allegation that Mormons aren't real believers, he repeated it, adding an allegation of racism for good measure.
Let's recall Sharpton's original statement, that in going on the Zahn show he presumably was seeking to explicate. Debating Christopher Hitchens recently, Sharpton said:
"And as for the one Mormon running for office, those that really believe in God will defeat him anyway. So don't worry about that. That's a temporary, that's a temporary situation."
Discussing those comments on "Paula Zahn Now" this evening during the 8 PM EDT half-hour, Sharpton and Zahn discussed the fact that until 1965 [according to CNN], or 1978, according to Sharpton, the Mormon church did not accord blacks full status. That engendered the following exchange.
CNN HOST PAULA ZAHN: Prior to 1965 -
THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON: I think it's 1978.
ZAHN: Well, our researchers are using a different date. But prior to that date, when blacks were finally considered equals within the church, did you find the Mormon church racist?
SHARPTON: I think that's that by self-definition. If prior to '65, '78, whenever it was, they did not see blacks as equal, I do not believe that as real worshippers of God, because I do not believe that God distinguishes between people. That's not bigotry, that's responding to their bigotry.
Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Who cares? The fact that an i
May 9, 2007 - 20:47 ET by NortonalecWho cares? The fact that an idiot like Sharpton gets as much attention from the MSM as he does validates everything written here about the MSM.
Nortonalec
The agenda is to fan the flames
May 9, 2007 - 20:52 ET by RJThe media agenda, working in tandem with the DemocRATS is clear: fan the flames against Romney.
And I don't think any pro-abo
May 9, 2007 - 20:48 ET by DCC1And I don't think any pro-abortion, pro-gay, race baiting, riot instigating individual believes in God either, but thats just me, Reverand.
Crazies to the left, and Whimps to the right
Whats awesome is that his mor
May 9, 2007 - 21:16 ET by AtheistRepublicanWhats awesome is that his mormon comments had little to do with his debate with Hitchens, he was just trying to score democrat brownie points I suppose. He also attacked Hitchens for Hitchens continuing support for Iraq. Sharptons a joke, next time there is a debate about religion Atheist vs. religous... guy.. a better religous person should be chosen.
Sharpton:"because I do
May 9, 2007 - 21:25 ET by MightyMouthSharpton:
"because I do not believe that God distinguishes between people."
Sharpton:
"And as for the one Mormon running for office, those that really believe in God will defeat him anyway"
Well, God may not distinguish, but bigots like Al Sharpton do!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
What is funny Shapie Marker
May 9, 2007 - 21:33 ET by Dan The Man 2What is funny Shapie Marker must have forgotten about teh many godless people he has used for many good works. Perhaps Sharpie is being used now.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
"And as for the one Mo
May 10, 2007 - 05:36 ET by motherbelt"And as for the one Mormon running for office, those that really believe in God will defeat him anyway" - Al Sharpton
Hey, Al! Does that mean that you are going to work to defeat Harry Reid the next time he runs for re-election??? He's a Mormon, too, you know!
Good point. Al?
May 10, 2007 - 05:59 ET by dahliatraversGood point. Al?
If Sharpton were white and said
May 9, 2007 - 21:34 ET by exLibIf Sharpton was a white conservative evangelical and said on TV that say, Muslims weren't worshippers of God, what would be the outcry?
Of if he said, some Catholics weren't true believers, like Kennedy or Kerry, who support and even propose and enact legislation to further abortion rights, what would be the outcry??
One other note; On CNN.COM the caption or teaser for Paula Zahn wasn't the usual one that Conservatives get when saying controversial things (they "defend themsevles". No Sharpton was going on PZ to "Set the Recrod Straight!!" No Bias there.
I just noticed the caption that said "what did Sharpton mean?" Instead of Bill Bennett, "Bill Bennett said......" Sharpton gets the benefit of the doubt, Bill Bennett got the assumption of guilt.
Mormons
May 10, 2007 - 09:08 ET by JimboOne cannot say on national television that “Muslins are not real worshipers of God”, because of the immanent fear of death for doing so. I think the risk of a beheading by a group of Mormons from Utah must be fairly low.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
not back in 1857http://en.wik
May 10, 2007 - 10:56 ET by vrwc13not back in 1857
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
face piles of trials with smiles
There you go again spouting u
May 10, 2007 - 12:00 ET by Airforce_5_OThere you go again spouting uneducated tripe. This massacre was committed by individuals and not sanctioned by the Church. The men who committed this act were tried, convicted and hanged plus it was proven that those involved had been kicked out of the Church for Apostasy.
Try this one on for size amigo: Missouri had an extermination order out on all members of the Mormon Church
Governor Boggs' Exterminating Order.
HEADQUARTERS MILITIA, CITY OF JEFFERSON,
October 27, 1838.
SIR,--Since the order of the morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your division, I have received by Amos Rees, Esq., and Wiley C. Williams, Esq., one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which changes the whole face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made open war upon the people of this state. Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operations and endeavor to reach Richmond, in Ray county, with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies and must be exterminated or driven from the state, if necessary for the public good. Their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so, to any extent you may think necessary. I have just issued orders to Major-General Wallock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess and there to unite with General Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north. They have been directed to communicate with you by express; and you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead, therefore, of proceeding as at first directed, to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond, and there operate against the Mormons. Brigadier-General Parks, of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred men of his brigade in readiness to join You at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.
L. W. BOGGS,
Governor and Commander-in-Chief.
This is what ignorance of religion, race or culture gets you.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
150 Years Old
May 10, 2007 - 12:22 ET by JimboEven if he was right, I find it interesting that he uses an event that is more than 150 years old to counter the point of Mulims beheading infidels today.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Well there is that chopping b
May 10, 2007 - 12:37 ET by Airforce_5_OWell there is that chopping block out in Temple Square in Salt Lake.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Doctrine:a particular princip
May 10, 2007 - 12:40 ET by vrwc13Doctrine:a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government
If you understand the doctrines of Mormonism, Islam, and Christianity you might understand where I am coming from.
All three, as are many others, are dogmatic in their beliefs thus anyone who truly subscribes to ones heartfelt beliefs will be shaped by them.
I believe you can tell if one holds fast to their beliefs by their "fruit". For example Hillary claims to be a Christian but openly supports abortion. She must either not be a Christian or she is lying about supporting abortion to get votes.
Islam teaches that you convert everyone, if not they must submit to Muslims, if not they must be killed.
face piles of trials with smiles
So what are the "bad fru
May 10, 2007 - 12:53 ET by Airforce_5_OSo what are the "bad fruits" you claim the LDS Church has?
You point to an incident that has nothing to do with the body of the Church and say it is bad?
Your logic escapes me.
So by your example we are to point to the Crusades of the dark ages and go "See there, all Christians are killers."
By your logic every "killer" out there that kills in the name of religion condemns the whole religion.
Come on, you have got to do better than that.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Not necessarily "bad&quo
May 10, 2007 - 13:06 ET by vrwc13Not necessarily "bad" fruits, just different. Theologically both Christianity and Mormanism cannot both be true. Or any two religions for what its worth.
Mormonism teaches some real "different" concepts: for instance how do you think the woman voters of this country will react to the fact that Mormonism teaches that only one's "earthly" husband can lift a wifes veil in heaven to give her eternal life? And that "man" can become "god" and rule a planet with many wives but not so the women?
face piles of trials with smiles
HUH??????Where in the World a
May 10, 2007 - 13:28 ET by Airforce_5_OHUH??????
Where in the World are you getting this stuff?
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
How about these?Top 10 Amazin
May 10, 2007 - 14:29 ET by vrwc13How about these?
Ha! That number 10 is blata
May 10, 2007 - 14:34 ET by MightyMouthHa! That number 10 is blatantly false! I lived 6 years in the show me state and it was closer to hell then the garden of Eden. Btw, anyone living in Mo has my condolences! :-P
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Way off brother. And now I
May 10, 2007 - 15:11 ET by Airforce_5_OWay off brother. And now I am done with you. As I told your counter part down the blog; You are convenced that other people know more about my religion then I do. So it is not worth my time to respond to any more of your falsehoods.
Let us agree that I will practice my religion and you will hate it.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
So which ones are not true?
May 10, 2007 - 15:25 ET by vrwc13So which ones are not true? This is not my list but from a well-known Apologetic.
So are you either not aware of these claims or not willing to address them?
btw: do expect Hillary not to use these should she face Romney? Great way to get the female vote especially in light of what happened in France.
And I do not hate your faith, just trying to address the differences, especially since they could have a eternal impact on one or both of us. i.e. your faith puts me in the lower of 3 heavens, whereas my faith only has one heaven and one hell, and your version of Jesus may not put you with Him.
face piles of trials with smiles
Uh...no...
May 10, 2007 - 16:13 ET by oakbladeOne of the basic tenets of Mormon faith is a person's right to worship how he feels is right. Belonging to a different church does not preclude you from the highest degree of heaven. There is a lot if theological underpinnings to this fact and if you want them explained I could have some nice young men come and explain it to you.:D
Furthermore, your well known apologetic obviously isn't a mormon. (Being an exmormon doesn't count) A lot of the things in that list are wrong or distorted.
I have had extended dialog wi
May 10, 2007 - 16:26 ET by vrwc13Oakblade...I have had extended dialog with a couple of Mormons over a number of weeks.
Addressing your reply:
face piles of trials with smiles
Your list has a very mocking
May 10, 2007 - 16:54 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveYour list has a very mocking tone about beliefs we hold very sacred. It also has a lot of "artistic license" to it to drum up more ire against Latter-Day Saints. As long as you seem determined to mock our beliefs, you will find that we have little interest in trying to hold a conversation with you about them. If you truly have a sincere desire for finding the truth, you will find it...but it's not going to be in a list.
"Believe what you want. You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine." --Frank Bullitt
On top of all of this, what M
May 10, 2007 - 17:07 ET by bigtimerOn top of all of this, what Mitt Romney's Mormonism has to do with him being a good/great President is is ridiculous.
meangene: tone? I believe the
May 10, 2007 - 17:30 ET by vrwc13meangene: tone? I believe these to be fairly stated, where's the answer as to which of these is false or misleading? I do not post these to mock your faith, but only for you or someone else to tell me if they are not true.
BT: charactor has alot to do with who our president should be.
Would you say the same about a president who is Muslim?
Would you support someone who believes in Scientology?
face piles of trials with smiles
Of course character has a lot
May 10, 2007 - 17:46 ET by bigtimerOf course character has a lot to do with who is the President I would vote for.
I rarely get into a religious argument here, if ever.
I was talking about the statement by a poster here earlier that said they have not seen any bigotry here when it came to Mormonism and Romney.
LOL...at least I think that is how this started with my comments.
As an aside, no matter the religion, if I thought the person was qualified and sincere, no matter the religion, and they were for what I wanted and believed for the best of this country, then I would vote for them.
I am not going to get into a religious argument here any further with all here....plenty of you all to do that.
I mean that nicely.
Ten Amazing Facts about Chris
May 22, 2007 - 20:36 ET by drkcTen Amazing Facts about Christians
1. They are, for all intents and purposes, polytheistic, believing in one big God they call Jehovah, and many demigods called angels, who fly around doing Jehovah’s bidding. There is also an evil demigod named Satan who goes around whispering in peoples ears trying to make them do naughty things.
2. Jehovah ordered the genocide of the Canaanites because he promised their land to the his worshipers. He became angry with his worshiper when this genocide was not performed completely.
3. Jehovah became a human (blasphemy) by magically, without sex, impregnating an innocent virgin girl with himself.
4. They worship a magician named Jesus who they believe could walk on water, turn water into wine, multiply bread and fish out of thin air, and raise people from the dead in zombie like fashion.
5. This Jesus also had magic spit and could cure blindness by applying his saliva to the eyes.
6. Jesus was killed by crucifixion but came back to life after 3 days in zombie like fashion and showed himself to his worshipers and allowed them to feel the gory holes in his hands, feet and side.
7. They participate in a cannibalistic practice where they eat bread and drink wine that they believe actually turns into Jesus the Zombie God’s flesh and blood.
8. Jehovah/Jesus often takes on another form, "the Holy Ghost," which sometimes possesses his followers and makes them speak in strange languages or babble incoherently.
9. They believe something called the "rapture" will someday occur where all worshipers of the Zombie-God-Jesus will suddenly, without warning, fly up into the clouds and play harps for all eternity. The non-believers will stay on earth to be punished.
10. They believe that a majority of the people who have every inhabited the earth will spend all eternity burning in a lake of fire and brimstone because they either did not get a chance or refused to worship the Zombie-God-Jesus. All Pagans, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, and Zoroastrians who have ever lived will burn in this lake, no matter what kind of lives they lead. A special place will be reserved for Mormons in this Hell because they misunderstood the nature of the Trinity.
Any person’s religious beliefs sound kooky when presented in a biased manor, peppered with half truths, by a non-believer.
lol, nice response to Debra the Church Lady and her acolytes
May 22, 2007 - 20:40 ET by RJlol, nice response to Debra the Church Lady and her acolytes
Do you work for Mr. Hitchens
May 22, 2007 - 20:43 ET by Clear thinkerDo you work for Mr. Hitchens by any chance?
Help a wounded soldier here...
http://newsbusters.org/node/12877
CTHe sounds more like Marcus
May 22, 2007 - 20:55 ET byCT
He sounds more like Marcus Borg of the Jesus Seminar. Except he, unlike Borg, doesn't make his living denigrating the faith
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
You guy missed the point of the list. Scroll up
May 22, 2007 - 21:02 ET by RJYou guy missed the point of the list. Scroll up, and you'll see that the post was a response to vrwc13's own list about Mormonism. As such, it was a pretty funny, and apt, response.
His last sentence should give you a clue: "Any person’s religious beliefs sound kooky when presented in a biased manor, peppered with half truths, by a non-believer."
RJ,i got his point, as he d
May 22, 2007 - 21:07 ET byRJ,
i got his point, as he did 'splain it well enuf in his final sentance.
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
'k botg
May 22, 2007 - 21:09 ET by RJ'k botg. (I was adding that sentence to my post as you were posting) ;^>
Learned that edit trick from
May 22, 2007 - 21:28 ET byLearned that edit trick from the master himself (tumbler) now didn't ya? :)
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
What are you talking about botg?
May 22, 2007 - 21:35 ET by RJThat's a racist thing to say, botg. ;^>
Oh no you're possessed by his
May 22, 2007 - 21:39 ET byOh no you're possessed by his ghost! :o
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
"Any person’s reli
May 22, 2007 - 21:19 ET by Conservative Voice"Any person’s religious beliefs sound kooky when presented in a biased manor, peppered with half truths, by a non-believer."
nicely illustrated drkc.
CV, Agreed. I can't believe t
May 22, 2007 - 21:23 ET by BlondeCV, Agreed. I can't believe this same conversation is still going on. Why can't we just respect each other's differences and get on with it?
Yes, I have given up on Deb
May 22, 2007 - 21:40 ET by Conservative VoiceYes, I have given up on Debra on this issue, because she can't see why it upsets people so much. I had to do the same with tumbler on immigration. She doesn't realize how many bridges she is burning, nor does she seem to care. Sad.
Reverend Al
May 9, 2007 - 22:04 ET by Jerry MackThere is no controversy about the words of an idiot!
Rev. Al appears regularily on all 3 cable networks. Does anyone know how much he is getting paid per appearance?
What about Harry Reid? Isn
May 9, 2007 - 22:46 ET by robert108What about Harry Reid? Isn't he a Mormon as well? Where's the uproar over his election?
Well Cheswick, it seems that
May 9, 2007 - 23:00 ET byWell Cheswick, it seems that you have not learned the first principles of unbiased reporting. The exclusionary rule for liberals and minorities clearly explains that any negatives for these protected groups are to be minimized. The pile-on rule for conservatives and white men clearly explains that the first rule obtains balance only if the neutral attributes of these repressive groups are put in a bad light and all negatives are highlighted. Thus the omissions of the first are balanced by the additions of the second.
Clear?
Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.
Harry Reid
May 9, 2007 - 23:00 ET by Jerry MackThis is all the proof that I need that the msm knows that Dims do not take any Religion seriously. Unless it can get them votes; then they fake it.
Ok lets see if this gets th
May 9, 2007 - 23:16 ET by mlongOk lets see if this gets the same treatment as Imus got...after all paybacks a b*tch and I can't think of better person to have his hypcracy turned on him than Al.
Wouldn't Christian founders
May 10, 2007 - 00:29 ET by sanskritgWouldn't Christian founders of this country also not be believers in God? What happened to 3/5s?
May 10, 2007 - 03:15 ET by
The 3/5th ruling was NOT a
May 10, 2007 - 05:26 ET by motherbeltThe 3/5th ruling was NOT a declaration that a slave was not a whole person. It was a compromise enacted in 1787, to solve the disagreement over counting slaves in the census, for purposes of representation in Congress. Some wanted them counted, and the pro-slavery people did not. So it was agreed to count each slave as 3/5, for purposes of the census.
Some wanted them counted, and
May 10, 2007 - 09:29 ET by deus_ex_machinaSome wanted them counted, and the pro-slavery people did not.
This mistake is rather common, so don't feel bad, but you have it exactly backwards. The slaveholding states wanted all the slaves counted 100% to maximize their representation in the House, and the free states rightly rejected that. The 3/5 was a compromise, and it gave the slaveholding states partial credit for having large populations of slaves, despite the fact that it was the height of cynicism for the slave states to seek to use their captive populations in this manner.
People who deride the fact that "a slave was counted as 3/5 of a man" often miss the main point - that the truly just outcome would have been to give the slave states zero credit in the census for their slave populations as opposed to 0.6 points per person in bondage. It was not this mathematical adjustment that denied their value as human beings, it was the system of slavery itself.
May 10, 2007 - 02:51 ET by
Think about what would have h
May 10, 2007 - 03:09 ET by DyneThink about what would have happened to Sharpton if he acted like this (and the way he usually does) during the time of Moses on in which only the men within the tribe of Levi were ordained to the priesthood (under the direct command of God, no less), he'd have been put to death.
No he wouldn't he'd use the e
May 10, 2007 - 03:15 ET by CCCPNo he wouldn't he'd use the excuse that he's black and would've gotten out of it just like he's done his whole life.
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
Also i'd like to know how t
May 10, 2007 - 03:17 ET by CCCPAlso i'd like to know how to become a Real Worshipper of God i don't think i am because im white
“The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do.” - Comrade Josef Stalin
A question...
May 10, 2007 - 06:18 ET by goldenthroatWould someone please tell where in the universe did the Revvvvvvveeerrrrrrd Al get his ministerial license? At a 7/11 store? And what 'church' does he pastor? Mattress Methodist? Pillow Presbyterian? First Church of Perpetual Liberal Hypocrisy?
Never dance on an empty stomach unless it's a liberal.
mormons will never be accepte
May 10, 2007 - 07:06 ET by pepsiman127mormons will never be accepted by any of the other made up religions because its foundation is so easily dissmissed as a con job , and believers may be sincere as are tom cruise and jon travolta but that doesnt make it right...so ya see whether its white native american angels and secret gold tablets or clay tables and aliens they're always gonna be easy targets even for uber idiots like sharpton
You don't have a clue about t
May 10, 2007 - 07:33 ET by Airforce_5_OYou don't have a clue about the Latter Day Faith do you?
Why don't you talk to somebody of the faith before poping off just like Al.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Agree
May 10, 2007 - 08:07 ET by cvgbuckeyeAirforce: I totally agree with you. 99% of the people that I have heard opine on this "Mormon Issue" are clueless. Most of them think that the issue is simply polygamy or that Mormons embody some form of atheism. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I claim no grand expertise regarding the Mormon faith but I am aware that Christians and Mormons have far differing views on the Diety of Jesus Christ.
AND, should this be an issue for Christians? Maybe, maybe not but it should remain a private thing for a Christian, I think.
The issue of Christ Deity sur
May 10, 2007 - 09:30 ET by Airforce_5_OThe issue of Christ Deity surrounds the belief of the Trinity. Were most main stream religions believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one Being, the LDS Church teaches they are three separate beings with one purpose.
The Church teaches Christ is the creator of this earth and the Lord God of the Old Testament but he is also the Son of our Father in Heaven as we all are.
There are many other differences of course but you do hit upon the one that is quoted the most.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
More
May 10, 2007 - 11:02 ET by cvgbuckeyeAirforce:
Correct me if wrong but does not The LDS also believe that God lives in heaven with a wife? That God created sin so that man could accept inperfection and enjoy the pursuit and process of striving to be more like Jesus Christ? Doesn't the LDS teach that at death, a saved preson goes directly to paradise and unsaved to a temporary prison and that in time, at the end of the millinium, that sinners will have a second chance for salvation? Therefore accepting Christ, prior to death, is NOT the only chance for salvation?
Is there not even more and more where LDS is different as day and night from Christianity, although my knowledge is limited and I have generalized?
This subject goes on and on and on. As a Christian and 100% believer in the Holy Bible, I have vast differences from LDS.
Does this interpret as a litmus test that Christians should apply for presidential elections? I don't know and I would find no guidance for such decisions in the scriptures (I think). I'll tell you this much, though. There is not a democrat candidate of any persuasion that I would vote for before I would vote for Mr. Romney.
I thought LDS was based on
May 10, 2007 - 11:09 ET by balboaI thought LDS was based on the teachings of the Osmonds?
Balboa, you're not helping.
May 10, 2007 - 11:23 ET by dahliatraversBalboa, you're not helping.
Christianity and Mormanism ar
May 10, 2007 - 12:05 ET by vrwc13Christianity and Mormanism are not the same...not even close.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism#Mormonism_and_Christianity
One of the most basic tenets of Christianity is who God is and the Mormons have a completely different view than Christians. The Mormons believe God was once man who became God, and in some ways so can you. Jesus and Satan are half-brothers according to the Mormons.
The other critical difference is on how salvation is gained.
Past these, most other arguments are minor.
face piles of trials with smiles
Boy do you rely on the old Wi
May 10, 2007 - 12:32 ET by Airforce_5_OBoy do you rely on the old Wiki a lot.
Is it so unbelievable that God could have been like us at one time?
Look around you. This Earth is organized. God's plan is organized. So how is it he was just floating around one day and went "Hey I'm lonely. I think I will start a world."
How is it we are made in his image if we don't look like him?
Try and think ORGANIZATION.
So if "God" was onc
May 10, 2007 - 12:58 ET by vrwc13So if "God" was once man...who created him?
btw: wiki is just a common source, Google will give you a plethora of resources that address the issues.
face piles of trials with smiles
Why don't you try www.morman.
May 10, 2007 - 15:19 ET by Airforce_5_OWhy don't you try www.morman.org of www.lds.com and find out the truth about the Church or is google and wiki more slanted to your views?
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Been there...it does not answ
May 10, 2007 - 15:48 ET by vrwc13Been there...it does not answer or address these:
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.
2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.
5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.
8. All Christian churches are an abomination.
9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
btw: all of these come from written Mormon texts.
face piles of trials with smiles
Airforce, thanks for the link
May 10, 2007 - 16:53 ET by Casey97Airforce, thanks for the links. I went to these web pages and here is what I found.
From Doctrine and Covenants (D&C), what they believe. Please note this is not an anti-Mormon site I link to, but LDS.ORG.
God is just like me and you, and we can become God!http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/130/22#22
“THE FATHER HAS A BODY OF FLESH AND BONES AS TANGIBLE AS MAN’S; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” (This is in direct opposition to the Bible which states God is a Spirit: John 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.")
Just be good and you too can be God! http://scriptures.ld...
THEN SHALL THEY BE GODS, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; THEN SHALL THEY BE ABOVE ALL, because all things are subject unto them. THEN SHALL THEY BE GODS, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the EXALTATION and CONTINUATION OF THE LIVES, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
Wow they really believe that we can be God! http://scriptures.ld...
And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be MADE EQUAL WITH HIM (GOD).
Just to sum it up: http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html
on this page they explain what is meant by “exaltation”. This is a direct quote from the above link to LDS web page:
*They will become gods.
*They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
*They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge.
Recently the religious right railed against the da Vinci Code. I thought it was a good fiction book, but went to far by claiming everything in it was true. One example is the Priori of Scion being formed hundreds of years ago, when it started in the 1960’s. Well anyway people railed against the book because it claimed Jesus had a wife. Look at the Mormon Journal of Discourses: http://www.journalof...
Jesus had many wives and children: "JESUS CHRIST WAS MARRIED AT CANA OF GALILEE, THAT MARY, MARTHA, AND OTHERS WERE HIS WIVES, AND THAT HE BEGAT CHILDREN." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 210)
Here is a good one from the Journal of Discourses. Mary was not a virgin impregnated by the Holy Spirit, but a woman impregnated by the first Man (also known as God)! God had physical sex with Mary. "When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; Jesus was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 121)
Maybe that was not clear, try this one: "The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten of his father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, page 115)
Please all of the quotes above are from the Mormon’s own web page and their own scripture links, and this is not my opinion but theirs. Airforce, if you are a Mormon and this is not what you believe, I apologize and would hope you would contact someone within your church to correct the Cyber terrorism that has modified your own scriptures. Surely it is a hateful person to who has modified your own web page to attempt to paint your organization as group of heretical blasphemers. You should demand your web presence to truly reflect what you believe.
/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-/*-
With Democrat revisionist history and liberals guaranteeing the future (global warming, nuclear destruction, etc.) only the future is certain; the past is always changing.
Here is the basic Doctrine of
May 10, 2007 - 12:15 ET by Airforce_5_OHere is the basic Doctrine of the Church:
The Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Understand we believe in eternal progression. That we lived with God before coming to this Earth so that we could understand sin and death. We believe we will live with him again and that every person who has live here on this earth will have the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and have the free agency to choose to follow or not. That is free will and a teaching followed throughout the Bible.
We believe that a family is eternal.
The deeper Doctrine I will be happy to go over off line if you like.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Cruise and Travolta are Sci
May 10, 2007 - 11:07 ET by Mark FinkelsteinCruise and Travolta are Scientologists, not Mormons.
AL Sharpton- racist without a
May 10, 2007 - 07:30 ET by Airforce_5_OAL Sharpton- racist without a clue.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Biggest Bigot!
May 10, 2007 - 09:02 ET by philgressAl Sharpton is the biggest bigot that I know! Everything is racist to him.
SHARPTON
May 10, 2007 - 09:37 ET by m_zeplinSharpton is the racist-bigot. He makes a living trying to divide American along racial lines by creating problems where they don't exist without his efforts.
I hate Sharpton, but I must
May 10, 2007 - 10:22 ET by blogonatorI hate Sharpton, but I must agree that Mormons aren't true Christians and am concerned with anyone of that "faith" running for office. Not to mention Romney's belief in evolution. He clearly is no Christian.
yo dufuss..i never said travo
May 10, 2007 - 11:31 ET by pepsiman127yo dufuss..i never said travolta and cruise were mormons i was explaining their sincerity in their made up religion doesnt make their faith real...john smith was a con artist not a prophet ..thats why mormon believers have been persecuted all these years
Yo dufuss (sic)
May 10, 2007 - 12:00 ET by RJYo dufuss (sic) ...you seem to believe you have the full insight of an all-knowing God, but you come across as a narrow-minded fool.
Oh I see we have a herd of tr
May 10, 2007 - 15:25 ET by bigtimerOh I see we have a herd of trolls here today poppin' up all over.
Goody.
It's Friday after-all.....
.....heheheeeheheheeee
BT,Getting a jump on the week
May 10, 2007 - 17:54 ET by BlondeBT,
Getting a jump on the weekend? :D
Oh how I wish it were Friday.
By the way, it was Joseph Smi
May 10, 2007 - 15:15 ET by Airforce_5_OBy the way, it was Joseph Smith not John. So I see you have really done your research on this one.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
Why are you concerned about s
May 10, 2007 - 11:38 ET by dahliatraversWhy are you concerned about someone "of that faith" running for office?
And could you just run down the list while you're at it - Judaism, Muslims, Buddist, Bahai, atheism. Who else concerns you?
I think most Bible belters PR
May 10, 2007 - 12:08 ET by fenderteleI think most Bible belters PROBABLY don't consider Mormons as Christians. Ralph Reed certainly doesn't. I have nothing against Mormons. I think they are good family people who take care of their own very well. I've known several Mormon families and the only critcism I have is they don't encourage their children to be individuals or independent thinkers. Their belief system is a bit strange, which I'm afraid Romney will have to answer to at some point, just like Brownback and the others will have to justify their beliefs regarding evolution.
and your own, fender?
May 10, 2007 - 12:13 ET by RJ"Their belief system is a bit strange"
What is your own belief system, fender, that you feel qualified to make that judgement?
Fender is right - we fundies
May 10, 2007 - 12:16 ET by TruthMongerFender is right - we fundies don't consider Morman's to be Christian...
But Romney isn't running for pastor of my church...
We fundies are the very definition of tolerance, you see...
Perhaps, but that's not what I asked fender
May 10, 2007 - 12:20 ET by RJPerhaps, but that's not what I asked fender
Right, the question you asked
May 10, 2007 - 12:24 ET by TruthMongerRight, the question you asked fender i doubt he can answer...
You obviously don't know much
May 10, 2007 - 12:49 ET by fenderteleYou obviously don't know much about religion other than your own (if you have one).
It is my understanding, and if I'm wrong please correct me, but only if you are a Mormon or have done some research on your own, these are some Mormon beliefs:
God is a physical being with a wife or many wives.
When you pass on you become a God of your own planet
The dead can be baptized by proxy to become Mormon
Spirit protecting underwear is to worn at all times except when it is laundered
Jesus was a polygamist
Secret rituals take place inside the Temple which only Mormons can enter
Jesus came to South America in a wooden submarine to convert Indians to Christianity
That's a few.
Wow Fender
May 10, 2007 - 12:53 ET by JimboWow. You seem to be spending much time researching the Mormon faith. Care to provide any links to those claims? Why so preoccupied with the Mormons? Are you afraid that your next President may be Mormon? If that’s the case, don’t worry. It will be OK. By the way, what do you know about the Muslim religion and their fondness of cutting off infidel’s heads?
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
Whose the Muslim that's runni
May 10, 2007 - 13:03 ET by fenderteleWhose the Muslim that's running for President? And what's the problem with researching any topic you want to know more about, unless your content to be comfortably dumb.
I've read several books on Mormonism and at one time had two Mormon teenagers work for me at one time. They were both great kids, but neither sets of parents would let them listen to rock music. One of them went on a mission and the other ran away from home and left his family for several months. When he returned he was shunned and extricated from the family. The Mormon church also prefers that you live as close to the temple or stake house as possible, thats why in some communities you find large Mormon dominated neighborhoods.
Whose the Muslim that's runni
May 10, 2007 - 13:30 ET by Jack BauerThat would be Barack Hussein Obama
And before you say he isn't a Muslim, he is to those of the Muslim faith because once a Muslim always a Muslim. Even an apostate, like him.
He is also the only Presidentdial candiate whose father was a polygamist. His dad had THREE wives.
Jack... Thank you...thank you
May 10, 2007 - 15:36 ET by bigtimerJack...
Thank you...thank you, thank you.
Nobody talks about this, let's alone points the facts of your post out.
Wonder why...
Wait...let me guess...oh yeah....
He has a 'D' behind his name!
"unless your (sic) content to be comfortably dumb"
May 10, 2007 - 13:35 ET by RJ"Their belief system is a bit strange" Still wondering what your belief system is that allows you to make that judgment, fender. I'm sure that whatever it is, others might consider it to be "strange."
"unless your (sic) content to be comfortably dumb" Well, fender, it's apparent you've decided that you're content to be in that state. Being comfortably dumb includes making difinitive derogatory statements when you only have a shallow knowledge of a subject. The proof is the response provided by Airforce to your bigoted post regarding LDS practices.
fender, you continue the bigotry you established in your posts on other threads
Sooo.... Since your two for
May 10, 2007 - 13:36 ET by JimboSooo.... Since your two former employers ran away from home....then Romney wouldn't make a good president.....
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
I am done with you my friend.
May 10, 2007 - 13:36 ET by Airforce_5_OI am done with you my friend. It is obvious you have read the wrong books on the Church.
You have your mind made up and there is no reasoning with you.
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne
The Muslim that is running fo
May 10, 2007 - 13:38 ET by NL207The Muslim that is running for President says he is an apostate Muslim, not a muslim at all despite having been raised in the religion. Inquiring minds might question his truthfulness on that point.
Any particular reason you are a "tele" as opposed to a "Strat"?
Owned strats in the past, but
May 10, 2007 - 17:37 ET by fenderteleOwned strats in the past, but prefer the tele for what I do. Also own a variety of Gretschs, Rickenbackers, Burns and others. No Gibson's currently. Owned a '59 TV Les Paul double cutaway I'm sorry I sold.
Fendertele, a broad array of
May 10, 2007 - 15:48 ET by dahliatraversFendertele, a broad array of ethnic and religious people like living near each other. In fact, name me one that does not.
Enough with the anecdotes. What specifically is your concern about a Mormon becoming President of the United States? What could s/he do as President that would be bad for the country or bad for you?
I don't care what religion Ro
May 10, 2007 - 18:17 ET by fenderteleI don't care what religion Romney is, but a lot of Bible thumpers out there probably do. Frankly, I'd love to see him be the republican candidate because that will make it all that much easier for the democrats to win. There is no republican who is currently running that could beat any of the top three democrats.
Good enough for me! Let's c
May 11, 2007 - 00:20 ET by UnsaneGood enough for me! Let's cancel the 2008 elections, and put in someone in the Whith House who will nanny you to your heart's content!
Oh yeah, and steal from anyone who dares make a dime more than you...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
This sort of thing is not wha
May 10, 2007 - 13:21 ET by DyneThis sort of thing is not what this topic is for. The best way to learn for yourself is to learn about the church from someone who belongs to it and especially to read the Book of Mormon to learn about God's dealings with the people of the Americas. If you want a point-by-point discussion of what you posted, feel free to PM me or one of the other NB members who is a Mormon. Other than that, let's please stay on topic.
You’re kidding, right? 1.
May 10, 2007 - 13:22 ET by Airforce_5_OYou’re kidding, right?
1. God is a resurrected Being. Even if you believe in the trinity you know that Christ was resurrected. Meaning his spirit and body were perfected and glorified.
2. We do believe in eternal progression. We have been promised that all men through Christ are resurrected, there is that word again, so there for like God.
3. How are those who have passed on who have never heard of Christ to have the chance to receive the blessing of his resurrection unless someone stands in proxy? The Crucifixion was a proxy ordnance done for all men so that they may see God again. So that we may be forgiven for our sins.
4. The garments you talk about are worn to remind us of the covenants we make with God to follow the laws of God. These include Morality, Honesty, Charity, and Family. And we have more than one set my friend so they are always worn while the others are in the laundry.
5. Jesus was not a Polygamist. Yet Polygamy was a doctrine of the Church because of the deaths of many of the male Priesthood holders who were killed because of their faith. Many prophets in the Bible where granted many wives. Examples; Abraham, David, Solomon.
6. The "rituals" you speak of are not secret but sacred. They include the Baptism for the Dead, Eternal marriages and the endowments which teaches us more about the creation of this earth and our role in it.
7. We do believe that Christ did visit this continent and appeared to the people here but he did not come in a "wooden submarine".
Next time try talking to those "Mormon" Families you know
.
So I wasn't exactly wrong on
May 10, 2007 - 13:49 ET by fenderteleSo I wasn't exactly wrong on all points and I don't know if I can say I'm exactly clearer on them then I was before. Every religion has its rituals which can be viewed as "strange" depending on your point of reference.
But I'm glad, you being a Mormon answered my post, rather than someone who thinks they know something about your religion. I have few questions that I'm hoping you answer: Can I, being a non-Mormon, enter a Mormon Temple? How did Jesus visit this continent? Would you let your children listen to current rock, metal or emo music?