WashPost Royally Ribs Bush for Gaffe

Photo of Ken Shepherd.

Updated below with link to video (10:30 EDT).

Washington Post writers Tamara Jones and Roxanne Roberts (who co-writes the paper's "Reliable Source" gossip column) took just four paragraphs into their page A1 story on Queen Elizabeth's state visit to snark about a gaffe of President Bush's during the welcome ceremony.

The President was noting that the Queen had visited the United States for the bicentennial in 1976, but he started to say 1776 before catching himself.

Noting that the Queen "did not appear amused," Jones and Roberts described Bush's reaction as "sheepish" and that the Queen's disapproving glare was not his only "comeuppance of the day."

With the important business out of the way, Jones and Roberts eventually got around to quoting the speeches by Bush and Elizabeth II.

By contrast, the New York Times' David Stout waited until the 11th paragraph of his story -- after quoting excerpts from Bush's and Queen Elizabeth's speeches -- to note the Bush gaffe:

Mr. Bush set a relaxed tone to the White House gathering, albeit unintentionally. “You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 — in 1976,” he said as laughter broke out. A moment later, Mr. Bush said the queen had flashed him a look “that only a mother could give a child.” That line brought more laughter.

Update (10:30 EDT): Allahpundit at HotAir blogged about the media's obsession with the 1776 gaffe here. He includes a video link and observes that it seems the Queen was perhaps only half-paying attention when Bush made the 17-, er 1976 slip.

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


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Ho hum, business as usual at

Ho hum, business as usual at our newspapers...

So what

So President Bush goofed up some dates with the Queen. It's not like she's royality or anything. What's she going to do - sic her Corgi's on him?

Yes

Oh yes, the post is so right. They would have preferred their idol bill clinton's protocol. He would have grabbed her behind and pushed her under the desk. We also know what that exquisite gentleman would have done with her fine, white dress; if there were no rags around. And then there's this cigar business.

Yes, their man is such a gentleman of protocol.

The Scotsman covered it bette

The Scotsman covered it better:

"The crowd laughed and the president paused, turned to the Queen and winked. He turned back to the lectern and quipped: "She gave me a look that only a mother could give a child."

The Queen laughed in response."

I thought President Bush made a fine recovery.

Olbermann had a fit over Bush winking at the Queen

I guess you didn't hear yet then that Olbermann had a fit over Bush winking at the Queen, and made up a 5 minute segment with a guest about it.

 These press retreads don't realize what childishly insane goofballs they look like. Keith Olbermann is trying to give a class on the news about respecting authority properly ?

LOL

Great point Sport. Same wi

Great point Sport. Same with the Press - they don't give respect to our President but they give it to Dictators and Despots

What else is new from the Was

What else is new from the Washington Compost?

If a thundering voice came down from heaven and said, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" the Bush-haters would still take every possible opportunity to attack, eviscerate, and defame him.

Right on, jon....and if he

Right on, jon....and if he walked across the Potomac, they would sneer "Bush Can't Swim!" However, it's better to be made fun of for little gaffes like that than for what the definition of "is" is.

Motherbelt, that was my exact

Motherbelt, that was my exact thought. Oh…. He made a slip up speaking (like that is something new). At least we don’t have to hear about a stain on a blue dress. Lets face it this country is a little over the King and Queen thing since about 1776.

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagn- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

Re the blue dress, I am com

Re the blue dress, I am completely stunned that anyone can even look at either of the Clintons with an iota of respect. Had it been a Republican, he would have been banished to political Siberia, never heard from again. But since Liberals have no standards for their own, they are heroes in many people's eyes. It's really sad.

My ex-business partner would

My ex-business partner would tell me that Clinton was the greatest president of all time. It was the start of some really bad arguments.

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc.
Ronald Reagn- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

"Clinton was the great

"Clinton was the greatest president of all time."

Next time don't argue with them USA. Just ask: "Really? What did Clinton do that was so great?". Then sit in silence as they struggle to come up with something... anything...

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Clintoon was the best preside

Clintoon was the best president of all time -- when compared with all those presidents who won two terms with less than 50% of the vote each time; and who was impeached; and who was disbarred; and who left stains on blue dresses; and who gave away our secrets to our enemies. What I don't understand is the media's constant refain "see how popular he is -- he could get re-elected in a heartbeat" -- balogna. He never was that popular, and he still isn't that popular. Instead, he's merely propped up by his MSM supporters.

FREE ROOM & BOARD

Hey, when you get free room & board at the White House(Lincoln Room, etc) you are totally loved.  They had those parties on AIRFORCE ONE for all the reporters.  They got the news e-mailed to them in the words the WH wanted it written as & same as the MSM wanted.  They all sang "Oh Happy Day, when our Bill Clinton walked, when BC walked, he takes our cares away!"  Could have been the smoke-remember no inhaling tho!! 

AP was even better. In a 1000

AP was even better. In a 1000-word report (posted at CNN this morning), AP managed to use the following words in the article titled "Bush welcomes Queen Elizabeth at White House": Gaffe (3 times); Slip (of tongue, of speech) (twice); Embarrass; and Mistake.

AP also let us know that there were two real reasons for this reception. 1. "But it wasn't exactly the flawless effort Bush had hoped would erase memories of the "talking hat" episode during the queen's last U.S. visit." And 2. "that the royal visit was a welcome break for a White House burdened by low approval ratings and acrimonious tussles with congressional Democrats over the Iraq war".

Now, before you say that I'm too focused on counting words and such, here's what AP put into the middle of their report: "In just four minutes, he mentioned "freedom" and "liberty" seven times. "

We must not have the President of the United States mention those words (what are they now, the "F" and "L" words???). This is what AP uses as their standard of reporting. And of course, CNN wouldn't question this at all.

I was also watching Fox & Friends this morning, and they played a tape of this episode. Brian Kilmeade made the observation that this was just a minor thing; that this was the first time he actually saw the event, and before he watched it, he was assuming, because of the intensity of the written reports, that this whole thing was a major, major blunder. And he's right -- you have to watch it to realize this is nothing but a made-up MSM story, by people who definitely have an axe to grind. What a pathetic state of affairs we have in this country, IMO. It's stuff like this that drive the President's approval ratings into the ground, and it simply isn't right.

Excellent points, ThisnThat

Excellent points, ThisnThat, I hadn't seen AP's writeup yet.

You are right on the money about its coverage.

I'm not surprised at their

I'm not surprised at their slipping in the "burdened by low approval ratings". I swear they have a key on the keyboard (I forget what it's called) that automatically types "a White House struggling with its lowest approval ratings ever, and increasing opposition to the Iraq war". And they just automatically inject it into every story.

I'll bet you can't imagine this: Hillary Clinton, whose tenure as First Lady was scarred by a failed attempt at health care reform and various legal and ethical questions......

Well, what do we expect from

Well, what do we expect from gossip columnists?  They have no frame of reference to write about anything of substance, so the pick on people.  IMO, it's one of the sickest aspects of pop culture.  Oh, to be sure, Bush is no orator, and this little incident isn't the first time Bush has slipped up in a public speech and it won't be the last time.  So what?  It's good to expose this kind of media garbage..  thanks, Mr. Shepherd. 

I watched the whole speech,

I watched the whole speech, the speech writer might be more at fault. I recall that a few sentences before there were a number of dates referred to, and some of them were in the 1700's. Most people have trouble juggling dates and the speech was awkward in flow. I think the President handled it well. I would have limited the dates.

"Bush Flunks History: Em

"Bush Flunks History: Embarasses Both Countries, Needs Fewer Dates to Recall, Experts Say."

  Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.

Dana Milbank was on NPR's Mor

Dana Milbank was on NPR's Morning Addittion and spouted the same "gaffe" before any reporting on the Queen's visit was made. He of course is a very popular commentator on Keith Olbermann's Countdown show on MSNBC. So the initial Washington Post reporting gets spread across the airwaves by the foot soldiers of the Main Stream Media.

The economy is up, the stock market is at historic highs, unemployment is low, the war is going better and Bush can't catch a break with these liberals. Go figure?

Excellent recovery by the pre

Excellent recovery by the president. I'm impressed with his thinking-on-his-toes response. I'm sure if Clinton would've done it, it would've been heralded as a great and hilarious moment for him. But what are you going to do when the media sets different standards based upon the type of American you are?

*****

"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine no possessions?'" - Elvis Costello

Hero - I wouldn't even call

Hero - I wouldn't even call it a recovery. It was so inconsequential. It's obvious to anyone unless the are stupid and ignorant of our history that he had the date of our Independence in his mind. People mis-speak all the time and it doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

I call my husband by my sons name and visa versa does that mean I can't tell them apart? These people are so ridiculous.

Harry Reid

Didn't Mr Reid say he mis-spoke when he said "The Iraq War is lost".  Didn't see play after play after play of his statement on the news-cause the MSM didn't want people to know what he said! 

Right pawpaw and that would

Right pawpaw and that would be considered a Gaffe as would a thousand things that Hillary and Bill have said but starting a date with the wrong century offends no one and is obviously a miss-statement that anyone could make when thinking of our founding. It's not as if he misspoke and said 1956 which would imply that he didn't know our history and/or that the Queen was older than she is. It's so absurd to even talk about it.

Yes

Yes, & I thought he did a great job of making light of it.  In fact, his humor is all part of his likability.  The clip I saw showed that he didn't even get the whole year out, but corrected himself very quickly, then made light of the whole thing.  In fact, didn't the Queen, after the exchaged some smiles, tell him "Just go on with it son" or something to that effect? 

Good thing no one, even a pro

Good thing no one, even a proud American - proud of our modern alliance with British, likened Clinton not dealing with Iraq for eight years, likened such to the Iraqies to early Americans having the French sail to our shores during our Revolution and not coming in to our expected assistance, and, just stayed in plain sight partying on.

President 41 had excuse during his term that going in immediately could be taking coalition into a trap of Saddam's making. 

How should our Presidential historians of note mark such years where the largest world wide coalition was put together and yet not brought to the aid of the majority of Iraqies then known to be desiring relief from Saddam? 

I do recommend a book I finally got around to reading these past few days >> "The Conquerers" by Beschloss.  His book truely speaks in opposites to the current conflicts.   Our times in Iraq seem incomparable to post war Germany and Germans and also Russians.   For all the Democrats and talk of Democrats being better read I am left thinking they just read more if even that story was accurate.   In the opposites I recommend Beschloss's work.  I also recommend ready and/or rereading Homer's " "The Odyssey" as I just found such even better than I remembered while reading it after above.  Now I am on to looking for a copy of "Mutiny on the Bounty."  I feel a need to study Clinton as born a Blythe.  

How do once opponents become such strong allies? 

That's pretty much a standa

That's pretty much a standard Bush gaffe. I'd expect nothing less (more?).

bal,It's the kind of stuff

bal,

It's the kind of stuff that makes the guy so adorable and down to earth, dontcha think?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

So right MM! Bush is the ado

So right MM! Bush is the adorable village idiot that everyone is always making excuses for.
Bush could drop his pants and take a dump on the White House lawn and the right would find a way to put a positive spin on it!

Haha, then it MUST just be

Haha, then it MUST be an act to keep his adversaries off balance. After all, how many real villiage idiots have degrees from Harvard and Yale and have obtained "most powerful man in the world" status(twice)? GWB is a friggin genuis to pull off these well planned gaffs, timed to the split second!!!

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Birth

Yes, fendertele. You should thank Mr. Bush for giving birth to you in that dump on the lawn. Personally, that would have been the only time I would have favored abortion.

Good to see a hillbilly conse

Good to see a hillbilly conservative who favors abortion. Way to man up!

"Adorable"? Not w

"Adorable"? Not what I was thinking. More like "bumbling," "marble-mouthed," "goofy"...

"bumbling," &quot

"bumbling," "marble-mouthed," "goofy"

You mean like this person?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

He misspoke yet again.  He's

He misspoke yet again.  He's not a good public speaker, never has been, never will be.  Do you really feel the need to defend Bush in every single circumstance?

Sure BDS is bizarre, but so BWS (Bush Worship Syndrome).  Take it easy MM.  You don't have to rush to the defense for every minor embarassment Bush undergoes.

You need to take it easy Le

You need to take it easy Leon. This should hardly even be a minor embarrassment and the press is making it out as a big deal. That is what we are talking about. No one here worships Bush. Conservatives do not worship politicians only liberals do that.

Dee,I'm taking it easy.  The

Dee,

I'm taking it easy.  The media always covers Bush's misstatements as they do with many many many public figures.  It's humorous and worth covering.  You didn't laugh when Bush tried to exit through a locked door in China? 

Please please please, your statement about worship is too funny.  Ever heard of this guy called Reagan?  I'm sure you'll retort with Clinton and so on, but to deny the rampant Reagan and Bush 2 worship from the right is ridiculous.

I was merely commenting on MM's rush to defend Bush.  It's not a big deal.  No need for the angry, riled up defense.

Common Mistake Leon

You are mistaking our desire to point out the MSM liberal bias with worshiping the President.  It’s a common liberal mistake.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

No I just don't see how the M

No I just don't see how the MSM writing an article about the President saying something stupid at a high profile event is bias.  It's called a human interest story and we see them all the time.

Really?  I don’t recall th

Really?  I don’t recall the MSM going out of their way to show such “human interest” stories when a Democrat was in the White House.  Don’t even think about suggesting that Democrats don’t have slips of the tongues, or make the mistake of turning the doorknob of a locked door.   Like you say – it happens all the time.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Give one example!You said ear

Give one example!

You said earlier that the MSM covers verbal gaffes of "many. many others" and here you say "...we see them all the time."

Please provide at least one example of either of these items when a liberal is involved.

(I'll put on my headphones so the chirping crickets don't bother me)

 "You can lead a man to Congress, but you can't make him think." - Milton Berle

You're not serious are you?Al

You're not serious are you?

Alec Baldwin, Pat O'Brien, can't remember his name but the Democrat on Colbert that said cocaine was fun, the list goes on and on.  I will not waste my time to simply appease you.

but as an interesting side note what with all these accusations flying around that Liberals are racist, just thought you'd all like to know that Republican Rep. Ted Poe, actually quoted the Founder of the Klu Klux Klan on the floor yesterday.  Woops!

Poor little leon

When you say Alec Baldwin, I assume you are talking about the rant to his daughter.  That wasn’t a funny thing, and got press because it showed child abuse.  As for your other examples, I didn’t see or hear either of them.  Sure saw Bush trying to open a locked door though!  Over… and over.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

In other words he doesn't have an example

In other words he doesn't have an example. I was waiting for a Clinton or Carter gaff since we were on the POTUS talk topic.

 We got Alec Baldwin - not in congress or WH, and who the hell is pat o'brien - a sports commentator ? Then the lib troll couldn't help but KKK and add (R) to play, without quote or context or link.

 I'm sick of weak lying libs with their crack hanging out. I still hope for a single one I see worthy of respect coming here and posting, but it never happens.

Poor Leon - too angry and r

Poor Leon - too angry and riled up for ya. You must not have experience with woman and their monthly cycles. It's nothin personal - us women just have that problem. Your condescension is laughable. Your post was the angry one. Conservatives admire Regan. No one looked at him all starry eyed like they did with Clinton and are doing with O'bama.

We don't mind them covering humorous things - it's trying to make News out of it that is crazy. It was funny in a cute way not funny in a - Oh my God our President doesn't know the difference between 1700's and the 1900's way. That is ridiculous as are you.

You know sport, I don't worsh

You know sport, I don't worship Reagan (please ignore the altar in the corner), but out of all of the presidents in my lifetime, he would be the one that I did (maybe Truman also).  I was in the service during the Carter years and the Reagan years and I can tell you that I dispised one and admired the other.  Unfortunately, I was fooled by Carter and voted for him (please don't block me from this site - I am a southerner and thought he was too).

The things that people like me admire in Presidents is not really ideology it is character.  Reagan had it, Carter still doesn't.  Truman had it and I believe Jack Kennedy did too.  The thing people who admire Clinton admire is results,  I  guess, because he was effective at accomplishing his goals.  But I do not put results above character, never will.  Success at any price is way too costly for me.

By the way, I think Bush has a lot of character.  It has allowed him to stand the constant barrage of character assassinations from the left (you can't assissinate something that doesn't exist).  He may have made mistakes (who wouldn't besides J. Kerry?) but he has stood tall.  If you want to do a little history research, see what Truman's approval rating was at the end of his presidency and look at how he is admired today.  Do the same for Lincoln.  Now imagine how George Bush will be viewed through the lense of history twenty years from now. 

By the way, I think Bush ha

By the way, I think Bush has a lot of character. It has allowed him to
stand the constant barrage of character assassinations from the left

Well, realistically, what else can he do?

Well bal, he could have sta

Well bal, he could have started running the country based on polls, like some other president(s) have. And to answer your next question, yes I think the president should be concerned about public opinion, just not left wing polls with an agenda from the MSM.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

balboa - he could have foug

balboa - he could have fought back in kind with character assassinations, but he didn't.

Or he could have retreated to

Or he could have retreated to the Oval Office and locked the door, riding out the rest of his term without giving a crap.  But I guess he’s is a better person than that.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

I don't think any of these

I don't think any of these alternatives presented are realistic.

"I don't think any of

"I don't think any of these alternatives presented are realistic."

Duh? ya think!?!? I guess that makes GWB better than some other presidents we have had, and NOT the worst president in history! (That prize goes to Jimmy Carter, hands down! IMHO)

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

You don’t think running the

You don’t think running the country by poll results is realistic?

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

As a result of people makin

As a result of people making fun of him? No.

You are supporting President

You are supporting President Bush with your statement.  A lesser man would certainly do so.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Considering the type of man h

Considering the type of man he is, nothing else.  If you recall the speech that he made following 9-11 and understand that this was a man speaking from his heart, then you know who he is.  Bush is utterly convinced that future generations of Americans, no the world are dependent upon American taking a courageous stand today with regards to terrorism, that the time is past for half-hearted attempts at containment.  We must destroy this evil, just as past generations have had to face the evils of Communism, Fascism, and empirialism.  If we don't do our job today, our children and children's children will have a grim price to pay for our cowardness.

Is Iraq the right war at the right time?  I don't know.  But it is our war, in our time and our resolve is being measured and unfortunately being found lacking.  Millions and millions of Americans died fighting the last global war and yet we fought on.  Thank God we did.  Thousands have died fighting this war and half our country considers it a failure.  Think about the consequence of that and then consider who our real enemy is.

I do not think the real enemy is Islamist Fascism as bad as they are.  We can kick their ass every time.  The real enemy is within, constantly sniping  at those who would defend our freedom, seeking every political, social or propaganda advantage and fighting without honor, without integrity and without decency.  And today, this afternoon, I do not know who will win.

I had a conversation with my youngest son last night and told him (he's 17) that he may have to leave this country to ensure his children have the freedom he enjoys today.  I mourn for the loss of our pride, spirit and liberty; sacrificed at the altar of liberalism and political expediency.

Yaba daba doo!  -Fred Flintstone campaign slogan

That's nice and all, but we

That's nice and all, but we're talking about verbal gaffes.

So I guess that means you agr

So I guess that means you agree with his comments.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Yyyeahh...let's not get car

Yyyeahh...let's not get carried away.

Let's sum up what you have

Let's sum up what you have learned today bal, shall we?:

WashPost Royally Ribs Bush for Gaffe

Agreed?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Yup. That's about the size

Yup. That's about the size of it.

Leon, our esteemed poster b

Leon, our esteemed poster balboa called the president of the united states "bumbling," "marble-mouthed," "goofy". Not just a "bad" public speaker (which I agree with btw). I merely showed him a picture that more accuratly represents his words.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MM,  you must be joking.  B

MM,  you must be joking.  Bush has been all of those things in public while giving speeches.  Just because you love him, doesn't change the fact that he has been bumbling (fool me once), marble-mouthed (i.e. tacular - combination of tactical and nuclear), and goofy (i.e. that stupid face he made when the door was locked in China). 

Would you like me to compile a list?  It will take up an absurd amount of space unfortunately. 

You rushed to the defense of Bush with a level of intensity underserving of Balboa's original comment.  You say you agree that he is a bad public speaker, yet flip out when others point this out. 

Little Leon

You love that locked door story, don’t ya!  Tell me.  Have you ever tried to open a door only to find it locked?  How exactly is that newsworthy other than to attempt to ridicule the President and make him look foolish.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

 Why are there an abusive nu

 Why are there an abusive number of tabloids at my local grocer checkout?  Why does the show America's Funniest Home Videos exist?  Why is there an entire channel (E!) dedicated to this garbarge?  I don't know, people like to see famous people in compromising positions.  This includes the president of the United States. 

The media didn't make him look foolish, he made himself look foolish.

This is a silly conversation.  It's newsworthy because he's the president and he's famous and a majority of Americans care about famous people, don't ask me why.

Tabloids

You are trying to rationalize the MSM’s desire to undermine the President.  We do agree on one point however – the MSM is often on par with the tabloid magazines.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

How are they undermining the

How are they undermining the president?  He said something stupid, they pointed it out.  This the age we live in.  Just ask George Allen.

Hey Leon

Leon, you are like a one legged man at an ass kicking contest.

How does the MSM undermine the President?  You are too far gone and too blind to help my friend.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Are you saying "Entertai

Are you saying "Entertainment Tonight" and "The National Enquirer" are on the same level as MSM? Yes, people make mistakes. All we are saying is that the MSM jumps when Repubs (not just Bush) make them, but ignore them when Dems make them....

"You can lead a man to Congress, but you can't make him think." - Milton Berle

In terms of actual viewership

In terms of actual viewership/readership, I'd say they might even be higher than the MSM.

Leon doesn't know the diffe

Leon doesn't know the difference between gossip shows and news.

When the MSM is involved, som

When the MSM is involved, sometimes I have difficulty understanding the difference too!

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

There's a difference?!!

There's a difference?!!

Tim and Jimbo - you got me

Tom and Jimbo - you got me there. There is no difference when a Republican is involved. In fact some of the gossip shows probably do a better job of putting things in context and checking the facts.

Yeah right Leon - and it de

Yeah right Leon - and it depends on what the definition of is is for your perspective. That wing dinger didn't get half the press.

...hey leon, remember when th

...hey leon, remember when the media was all over clinton for LOOKING THROUGH BINOCULARS AT THE NORTH KOREA DMZ FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES WITH THE LENSE CAPS STILL ON?!?!?!

Of course you don't...because they weren't...

Truth,Oh yes, I recall seeing

Truth,

Oh yes, I recall seeing that...it was sent via e-mail.

But thanks for the laugh.  That was a great shot.

Would you like me to compil

"Would you like me to compile a list?"

Sure, that would be great. I am sure we have a bubba list around here for comparison.

And I don't mind balboa pointing out the obvious. If you will notice I actually agreed with him from the begining. But (and per my profile) don't call dubya names! Have some respect, okay?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Here's a good list.  http://

Here's a good list. 

http://www.slate.com/id/76886/

Regardless of how you feel about Bubba, he was a tremendous politician and a great public speaker.  That canNOT be denied.  So take a look at this Bush list and then you can make me a Bubba list (although I'm not sure how Clinton got involved in this except that's your standard response to all W criticism - well clinton did it too)

I agree with Leon!

I agree.  Clinton was one of the best politicians to ever live in the White House.  I mean that sincerely.  However….  Being a great politician does not make a good President.   I also sincerely believe that Clinton did great damage to the Office that will never be undone.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Whatever.  That's an entirel

Whatever.  That's an entirely different conversation.

The only relevant point is that he was a great speaker, Bush is not, so people like MM would be better served to not open this comparative analysis.

And it appears your only cri

And it appears your only criteria for a good (or great) President is that they be a good public speaker. Okay, so you are supporting Obama in '08. No substance, just a great public speaker.

 "You can lead a man to Congress, but you can't make him think." - Milton Berle

Leon, Leon

It’s not an entirely different conversation.  It’s exactly the point.  Bush is a good President and gets crucified every day in the media.  Clinton destroyed this country and got a pass.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

"Destroyed"? We're

"Destroyed"? We're still here, aren't we?

For Now

For now. 

Point is, he ran roughshod over the Office of the President and got a pass.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

I might have agreed with th

I might have agreed with that more than "destroyed" this country.

he was a tremendous politici

he was a tremendous politician and a great public speaker.  That canNOT be denied. 

I most certainly deny that.

You know it' funny Leon, bu

You know it's funny Leon, but during the entire time Bill Clinton was in office I never called him "bubba". You see I have respect for the office. Thats what this is all about respect for the office, something the MSM and people like you and balboa do not have. And the reason your idol Clinton keeps coming up is because he actually earned his bozo button while in office. Whereas GWB has honesty