What the President Actually Said on May 1, 2003

Photo of Ken Shepherd.

Although a quick search of the Web draws up the speech, available here (with video and audio links), rare is the online news service that links to President Bush's remarks on May 1, 2003, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln.

Notice, for example, no link to the speech in this story at CBSNews.com that follows Sen. Hillary Clinton's (D-N.Y.) latest swipe at the Iraq war. (see related post here)

Since the media don't reprint excerpts of the speech nor give readers the links to the original source material, here are some comments from May 1, 2003, that point to President Bush warning Americans of an ongoing struggle to establish Iraqi democracy and counter the threat of terrorism (portions in bold are my emphasis):

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. (Applause.)

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. Then we will leave, and we will leave behind a free Iraq. (Applause.)

[...]

Our mission continues. Al Qaeda is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland. And we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike. (Applause.)

The war on terror is not over; yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide. No act of the terrorists will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter their fate. Their cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory. (Applause.)

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


Comments Policy

All comments are owned by whoever posted them and are subject to our terms of use. They should not be assumed to represent the views of NewsBusters.

Viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

the CBS news story link comes

the CBS news story link comes complete with picture of Hillary dressed as chairman Mao

And yes Ken you nailed it, the story cites hill as condemning the mission accomplished speech as though that were ALL that was said with no reporting of the actual speech

The Left always gets stuck

The Left always gets stuck on one thing: the "Mission Accomplished" banner hanging behind the president during his speech. They never look at the whole picture and the context, they continually get hung up on a detail here or a detail there...never the big picture.

"Yeah, right! Who's the only one here that knows illegal ninja moves from the government?!" --Napoleon Dynamite

And actually, the Mission Acc

And actually, the Mission Accomplished banner was referring to the aircraft carrier's mission, as she was just about to return to her home port.  Some PR clown in the White House thought it would be good backdrop for the President when he made his address; a costly mistake.

You have no idea how many t

You have no idea how many times I've tried explaining that to my lib friends. But it is to no avail, eventhough they have no military experience they prefer to listen to the Old Media and not somone who spent 8 years in uniform.

Facts don't matter to them, feelings do.

<insert something clever>

The overall effect of that in

The overall effect of that incident is what people remember.

The overall effect of that in

The overall effect of that incident is what people remember.

That is discustingly dishonest Bal.  "Overall effect," is just another way of saying "feelings," something libtards base virtually every decision upon.  People "remember" what is repeated, over and over and over.  "Mission accomplished," "Bush lied," "No weapons of mass destruction found," "No uranium sought in Africa," and all the other lies that have been adopted as mantras by the seditionists in our midst. 

OIFVetFacts don't matter to t

OIFVet

Facts don't matter to them, feelings do.

And the really disgusting thing is when they operate on feelings they end up enabling people.  On a one to one case this is bad enough but when you use govt. programs and 'hamstring' large groups as a means to votes it is reprehensible

Tommy Franks, in his book &

Tommy Franks, in his book "American Soldier," says that it was he who suggested that the president do that. He said that it was for the troops, who had just accomplished a major mission and it was to show recognition of that success. He also said that had he known the crap Bush would take in the following months and years afterwards, he would have suggested something different.

I also remember, when his book was just coming out, him doing interviews, and I distinctly remember the interviewer talking about that and mentioning General Franks having made that suggestion, and Franks said "guilty as charged." If I recall correctly, he also said that Rumsfeld and/or Bush weren't big on the idea at first, but he explained to them the reason it would be the thing to do. He talked about it being something that at that point, the troops needed to have take place for the recognition they deserved for having done such a major mission so well.

You will never hear the moronic liberal media mention that that when they mention the "Mission Accomplished" speech.

General Franks wanted to do that for the morale of the troops and recognition for a job well done. Contrast that with the Democrat politicians who do everything to lower American troop morale, choosing instead to boost enemy morale and then have no idea (or care) that by boosting enemy morale, they are prolonging the war they say they want to end, AND........by doing that, they are getting American soldiers killed.

Yes, many Democrat so-called "leaders" are responsible for the deaths of many American soldiers.  How many, we can't know, but each day the Iraq war continues is another day that the Democrats have had a major hand in keeping our enemies energized and hopeful that they only have to keep up their killings a little bit longer, just hold out a little bit longer, and they will win the war..........................if the treasonous (yes, absolutely) Democrat "leaders" get their way. They are a disgrace to our nation and to the offices they hold.

As far as you blaming Democ

As far as you blaming Democrats for the deaths of American soldiers (but not the administration), Krugman had an editorial last week where he wrote:

The whole situation brings to mind what Abraham Lincoln said, in his great Cooper Union speech in 1860, about secessionists who blamed the critics of slavery for the looming civil war: "A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, 'Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!'"

I understand that someone might feel the need to bash Krugman, which is
ok with me, but understand that it was what Lincoln said that fits this
scenario.

Sigh, Krugman has been caught

Sigh, Krugman has been caught so many times in lies and intellectual dishonesty that no one except you Kool-Aid drinkers in the fever swamps of academia bother to read his tripe any more.

There's even a whole web site dedicated to his hyperbole, known as the "Krugman Truth Squad"

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin032003.asp

Del  thanks,  the link in y

Del  thanks,  the link in your link http://www.poorandstupid.com/chronicle.asp

Sigh, you must have missed

Sigh, you must have missed my last paragraph. Lincoln's quote was the main point, not Krugman's. Do I have to be a kool-aid drinker to appreciate a Lincoln quote?

Illogical and petty

If you wanted to focus on Lincoln and "appreciate" his quote, then you should have done so.   Krugman wasn't particularly relevant to the quote but you chose to include him in two out of three paragraphs.

You then complain when he is discredited?  That's petty and illogical.

I was giving context to the

I was giving context to the quote.

No it's the administration re

No it's the administration reacting to the terrorists <cue in 'Have They Forgotten'> in defense of the country that has led to the deaths.  The democrats merely aid and abet the terrorists which increases the toll.  Your citation is apt except the terrorists held the gun the Bush's head! 

&quot;The democrats merely

"The democrats merely aid and abet the terrorists which increases the toll."

It's partisan rhetoric like that that prevents us from getting anywhere.

Which Wing

Actually, it’s the incessant undermining of the President’s administration and our military for the purpose of advancing the Democratic party agenda that prevents us from getting anywhere.  That costs American lives.  It’s a fact.  This will come home to roost, however, I assure you.  When the Democrats lose the White House again despite this relentless drone and attempted brainwashing of the citizens of this country, it will show that the Democratic party have no principals beyond the preserving of their political careers.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

How so?  1)  How specifical

How so? 

1)  How specifically has the President's Administration been undermined?

2)  How have these DIRECTLY affected the troops on the ground?

3)  Finally, what exactly have the dems done to prevent us from getting anywhere?

Specific examples and not just rhetoric/talking points would be delightful. 

Troll Alert

Troll Alert.  I need to reduce my blood pressure before attempting a response here.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

No trolling, just trying to f

No trolling, just trying to figure out if your blanket statement has any validity at all.  Based on your response, I'm going to have to say NO.

Read on, Troll

Read on, Troll.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

yaaaaaaawn.

yaaaaaaawn.

There isnt much...

There isn’t much to love about trolls….except when they prove your point.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

So you are willing to make

So you are willing to make statements, but refuse to qualify them? The questions were fair, and were based on what you said.

Yaaaawwwnn...

"Yaaaawwwnnn...." Is a qualified response?  You are an absolute moron and a troll.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

What was he supposed to res

What was he supposed to respond to? "Read on, Troll" ??? Watch how this unfolds, then look in the mirror to find your troll.

Jimbo: Actually, it’s the incessant undermining of the President’s administration and our military for the purpose of advancing the Democratic party agenda that prevents us from getting anywhere. That costs American lives. It’s a fact. This will come home to roost, however, I assure you. When the Democrats lose the White House again despite this relentless drone and attempted brainwashing of the citizens of this country, it will show that the Democratic party have no principals beyond the preserving of their political careers.

Leon: How so?
1) How specifically has the President's Administration been undermined?
2) How have these DIRECTLY affected the troops on the ground?
3) Finally, what exactly have the dems done to prevent us from getting anywhere?
Specific examples and not just rhetoric/talking points would be delightful.

Jimbo: Troll Alert. I need to reduce my blood pressure before attempting a response here.

Leon: No trolling, just trying to figure out if your blanket statement has any validity at all. Based on your response, I'm going to have to say NO.

Jimbo: Read on, Troll.

Leon: yaaaaaaawn.

Jimbo: There isn’t much to love about trolls….except when they prove your point.

Stop being an ass WhichWing

Now you are just being an ass WhichWing.  “Read On” means read beyond the next line.  You fail to mention, for the obvious reason of trying to advance your own lack of a point, further along in the thread I had posted responses to Leon’s assertions, point by point.  Tip to you – read the time/date stamp of each post to establish a timeline.

By the way?  Are you Leon’s dad?  Would seem to make sense given Leon’s immaturity and your desire to stick up for him.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Sorry, I read the post from

Sorry, I read the post from the top-down.

This sums it up pretty well

This sums it up pretty well, notice all the vitrol and name calling, "attack dog Cheney" etc.  They aren't called "Defeatocrats" for nuttin'.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

So what?  How has this tangi

So what?  How has this tangibly and negatively impacted the War on Terror or the war in Iraq?

seriously, I'm not being glib, I'm simply trying to understand this tired old attack.  If it's true, there must be specific examples you can point to, i.e. Pelosi said this and it led directly to this.

Help me out here.

Tired Old Attack

An example of a tired old attack is one that has no basis, for example, “Bush Lied”.  This, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

I doubt I could because you

"So what?"

I doubt I could because your mind is made up, but: what if congress were pulling the same stunts in a time of war such as, oh say, WWII?

channeling leon:"wwII isn't the same as Iraq".

MM: "It's still a war".

channeling Leon: "So What?"

MM: "I rest my case".

ad nauseam, infinitum...

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Ok MM, good one.Major Differe

Ok MM, good one.

Major Difference between Iraq and WW2:  A concrete definition of victory.

Dodge, you lose, the questi

Dodge, you lose, the questions you posed concerned the dems undermining the administration handling of the war. Not the definition of victory.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Leon for Congressman

Translation - So since the circumstances are different than in WWII, we should cut and run, and hope the Terrorist will decide to play nice and not kill 10,000 more women and children.

You should run for Congress.  You’d be a lock.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Really?

What was the concrete definition of victory in World War II? It seems to me, the definition was our enemies were defeated. At that point, we began rebuilding. We are still in Germany after over 60 years, and we still have a presence in Japan, also after over 60 years. We began rebuilding after World War II, and we fought against an insurgency in Germany for several years after, as well as the Soviets and their presence in Germany for another 50 years.

Yet, we've been in Iraq for only 4. We defeated the Hussein regime in less then a year, and began rebuilding immediately thereafter.

So tell me Leon... what was the concrete definition of victory in World War II, and how does it differ from Iraq? The Iraq War is over -- finished. What is taking place there, is the defense of Iraq now, while they rebuild.

You really need to learn what you talk about, before you open your mouth.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Leon, you poor soul.

If after reading Mighty Mouth’s link (which I seriously doubt you did other than to look at the pictures), if your response is “So What”, you are a confirmed Troll.  I feel sorry for you if you believe what you are typing.  I mean that.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

I think some of you might h

I think some of you might have read Leon's post wrong, so I'll copy and paste it below.

So what? How has this tangibly and negatively impacted the War on Terror or the war in Iraq?

seriously, I'm not being glib, I'm simply trying to understand this
tired old attack. If it's true, there must be specific examples you
can point to, i.e. Pelosi said this and it led directly to this.

Help me out here.

We read it correctly

We read it correctly.  Our responses are valid.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

What's your point?  Both sid

What's your point?  Both sides attack with vitrol and name calling on the regular.  Cheney himself is notorious for calling people names and talking trash. 

Again, it seems it only matters when the Dems do it.  When your guys do it, you turn a blind eye.  I.E.  Schmidt's outrageously disrespectful attacks against Murtha.

Leon, Master Troll

Are you 13 years old Leon?  When Chaney calls someone an assh***, it usually doesn’t prolong a war, cause aid and comfort to the enemy, and put troops in additional harms way.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

&quot;Schmidt's outrageousl

"Schmidt's outrageously disrespectful attacks against Murtha"

You must be joking. John "convict the troops before the facts are in" Murtha?

Some people (like Murtha) are just asking for vitrol.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Leon - the Drive By Troll

I am trying to figure out if you are so cut off from reality that you believe what you posted, or if you are asking what you are just to get a rise out of the same people on this site.

I will give you just one example that can answer all three of your questions.  Lord knows there are dozens, if not hundreds of examples.  Let’s start with the latest, most egregious in recent memory.

Harry Reeds’s public announcement that the war is lost.

1). Making this statement publicly that the war is lost undermines the President, his administration, and the military. 

2) This directly  affects and endangers the troops on the ground because it clearly tells the enemy that public support in the US is waining, and they will adjust their military operation to 1).  Turn up the heat on public opinion by publically killking US troops, and 2) biding their time because a victory by them is inevitable when a predominant member of Congress is stating that the cause is lost.  This prolongs the war, and causes more troop casualties.

3)  What have the Dems done from preventing us from getting anywhere?  See 1 & 2 above.

Take the "Bush Lied" bumper sticker off your care and get in touch with reality.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

I'm going to have to disagree

I'm going to have to disagree entirely and say this is nothing but kool aid hype.

Why is it that dissenting talk from our politicians suddenly became wrong?  Aren't they elected to represent the views of their constituents and to do what they think is right?  If so, then how come we crucify them for doing their job?

Where was this outrage when DeLay said the same exact thing under Clinton?  I didn't hear anyone calling him a traitor or claiming that he was increasing the danger to our troops on the ground.  Just last week DeLay said this about Reid, "[saying that we've lost] in the time of war, with soldiers dying on the ground, announcing that we had lost the war, is very close to treasonous.”  This is essentially your claim, yet DeLay, as per usual, conveniently ignores what he said during Kosovo in 1999.

“[Milosevic is] stronger in Kosovo now than he was before the bombing. … The Serbian people are rallying around him like never before. He’s much stronger with his allies, Russians and others.” Clinton “has no plan for the end” and “recognizes that Milosevic will still be in power,” added DeLay. “The bombing was a mistake. … And this president ought to show some leadership and admit it, and come to some sort of negotiated end.”
(link)

It's almost word for word the exact same charges the Democrats are making against the Bush Admin.  So where was your outrage then?  Obviously there was none b/c you hated Clinton.  Fine.

The final point is that Harry Reid's opinion is one shared by a majority of American citizens, retired military officers, and many people involved in the world of foreign relations.  If he thinks that we are on the wrong course, than it is his duty as majority leader to speak up.  To remain silent would be to ignore the promise he made when he was sworn into office.

Holy Crap Leon

All I can say is, holy crap, Leon.  You are absolutely delusional by Bush hatred.

There is nothing wrong with dissenting talk from our politicians.  It is part of what makes this country great.  Group think is a very dangerous thing.  However – read my tag line – there is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason.  What harry Reeid and others are doing are selling out our military and our county’s security to make a bid for the White House in ’08.  It’s really as simple as that.

Also, the Republican criticism of Clinton was his “lob a cruise missile to shut everyone up” military strategy, especially when he employed it the night before he was supposed to be impeached.

And finally, the confirming point for me that you are so far gone from reality that you are a lost cause is your belief that “a majority of Americans agree with Harry Reid”.  Excuse me you leftist propaganda machine??  Where did you get that?  You would love for 50%+ of the American public to want us to cut and run.  The fact of the matter is that you aren’t even close. 

Channeling Leon (hat tip to MM) – The Democrats took control of the House and Senate on a platform of “change”

Jim:  “Change” means a different strategy to achieve victory, not run away and cross our fingers that the terrorists don’t nuke our homeland.

You are a sad, sad, person Leon.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Jimbo said: &quot;And fina

Jimbo said: "And finally, the confirming point for me that you are so far gone from reality that you are a lost cause is your belief that “a majority of Americans agree with Harry Reid”. Excuse me you leftist propaganda machine?? Where did you get that? You would love for 50%+ of the American public to want us to cut and run. The fact of the matter is that you aren’t even close."

An ABC/WaPo poll taken 3 days before Reid's comments yielded these results:

18. (HALF SAMPLE) All told, do you think the United States is winning or losing the war in Iraq? 32% said winning, 53% losing, 12% tie, 2% no opinion

19. (HALF SAMPLE) All told, do you think the United States will win or lose the war in Iraq? 35% said win, 51% lose, 11% tie, 1% no opinion

Which Wing - Swing and a Miss!

First off, polls mean little as they can be conducted and presented in a way to support virtually any viewpoint.  Secondly, the fact that you cite a Washington post/ABC poll makes it even more slanted and suspect.  Third, the results you cite do not support the notion in question – that 50%+ of the American public want us to cut and run!!  Try again!!

PS – 57% of the people in this poll said the economy is either “not so good” or “poor”.  That should tell you something about the people polled.  Stock market – all time high.  Unemployment – very low.  57% - economy poor?  If you believe this stuff, then I can’t help you.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Ok, I respect your distrust

Ok, I respect your distrust of polls. Let's agree that there are some people in this country that agree with the Senator's comments. Given that his comments came 3 days after the poll, it might suggest that he felt safe in making that statement without fear of outrage from the public.

P.S. You don't question this poll solely based on your perception that it was made up of mainly poor people, do you?

OK Which Wing

Don’t twist my words.  I never said the poll was made up of responses from poor Americans.  Given that it was compiled by two of the most notoriously liberal media outlets in the country, I suspect it is unfairly tilted left.

Of course I agree that some of the people in this country agree with the Senator’s words.  My point is, not nearly half do.

The bottom line is, just because polls or the genuine belief by a majority of the people don’t agree with the direction of the war, does not translate to pull out the troops and surrender.  It means that they support in a change in direction for victory.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

How else should I take this

How else should I take this statement? - PS – 57% of the people in this poll said the economy is either “not so
good” or “poor”. That should tell you something about the people
polled.
Perhaps you did not mean to suggest that it was mainly poor people responding, but that's how it came across.

Now, I can't say for sure what half of the country thinks, but I would
suggest that you don't either. Why are you so sure that they agree
with Bush and not Reid?

Leon

Leon, If you have read any of my past posts you will know I am not the biggest fan of Dubya so what I am saying is not biased.

What Harry Reid said was disgraceful. If you disagree with the war, that is fine, however when someone says that "the war is lost" how does that sound to our troops? They are putting their tails on the line everyday and to hear that from the head of one of our chambers, i'm sure is not comforting..

In November, I voted Democrat and was very happy that they took control of both chambers. Well it has been six months and they proven that they cannot run things any better than their predecessors have. Nancy Pelosi promised before the Dems got controll that de-funding would not an option. Well putting a pull-out date along with the funds our military needs is the same thing as de-funding. We cannot leave Iraq unless it is at least stable. I understand your frustrations Leon but shouldn't we at least give the surge idea chance?,

*applause*

*applause*

Let's start with the recent 

Let's start with the recent Pelosi expidition to the middle east in which it is reasonably clear nacy Pelosi and her Dem cohorts violated the Logan Act by discussing "alternative", meaning Democratic,  foreign policies with the leaders of Syria and Iran.

Next:  This discussion of a mandatory Iraq withdrawal date imposed by the Congress has signaled to the Insurgents/Al Qaeda in Iraq that they are winning in the halls of Congress.  All they need do is persist past the "expiration date" and they will have won.   This has to be an enormous morale builder for their cause.  You are apparently foolish enough to think this isn't effecting our troops in both Iraq AND Afghanistan.  They face there an emboldened enemy because of thes Democratic policies.

Speaking of Afghanistan, what effect does the above Democratic Party action in Iraq have on the Taliban/Al Qaeda forces fighting to regain control of Afghanistan?   Will they not see the Insurgent/Al Qaeda action in Iraq as a template for victory and the Democrats as political allies?

The Democrats have comlpeted undermined US civilian morale at home.  Period.  They have been playiong politics with a war against a determined and fanatical enemy tio gain power for themsleves.  They are despicable. 

That you needed to even ask these questions draws your own ability to engage in critical thought into question.   I should think the above points would be self-evident to any clear thinking individuals. 

NL - Thanks for the post.  I

NL - Thanks for the post.  I disagree but it was nicely stated.

1)  So you complain when the Dems go to Syria but don't say a word when Republicans go (i.e. the 3 republican congressmen that went).  Doesn't this seem to be hypocritical?  Or do you think that those Republicans also made a bad decision?

2)  You're missing the entire point of a withdrawal date.  It's not like that date comes and all of our troops immediately leave the country.  It sets a time frame, a tangible date that we can strive for.  Let's try to get our goals done by this date, and then we can slowly begin bringing our troops home as the Iraqis stand up.  I don't see what is so outrageous about this.  The current open-ended committment in my mind simply allows the Iraqi government to continue suckling of the American teet while not doing anything for themselves.  Again, why should they try to control their country and stand up against the insurgents when American troops will do it for them?  At some point, the Iraqi government is going to have to become accountable for their country.  You wanted freedom, we gave it to you, figure out how to make it work.  The current problems in Iraq are between Iraqis and I feel that these are problems that they must work out amongst themselves.

3)  I understand how you can argue that dissent speech in America can possibly embolden the terrorists/enemies of America, but what is the alternative?  Are you proposing that we should stifle any speech that goes against the war?  There have been many problems with the war and our strategy, I don't think it's so outrageous for people to angry and to want to demand change.  It seems to me that if you had your way, America would behave more like Russia, beating protestors, stifling speech, and demanding lock step subservience to the government in power.  Seems pretty unAmerican to me..

4)  Now the democrats have completely undermined the morale at home?  It's entirely their fault?  Are you sure it wasn't the claims made in the run-up to the war that have subsequently turned out to be false (i.e. welcome us with open arms, WMDs, 9/11 - Iraq connections, etc. etc. etc.)  Or perhaps the ever increasing death toll of American troops that's hitting small town America the hardest?  Or could it be the continually escalating level of violence in Iraq?  Or the fact that there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive strategy (stay the course, no wait, escalte the troop presence).  Could it simply be that people are tired of American troops dying for 4 years for ambiguous goals?  To blame the dems for the decreasing morale is to entirely ignore the reality of the situation.  People don't like to see Americans die, especially when they're not sure what they are dying for.  This is simply human nature. 

5)  Love the personal attack at the end.  For a second there I thought you might be a cut above the rest of the posters on this site, but it seems the NB must engage in personal attacks ANYTIME people disagree with them.  It sure is hard to hide hatred.

Open Letter to the TROLL

Leon – I do not intend for this to be a personal attack, but more of a factual statement.  You are one of the most misinformed individuals I have seen on this site in some time, if not forever.

1)      Read the Logan Act and answer your own question on this one.

2)      YOU are missing the point of the withdrawal date.  ANY withdrawal timeline emboldens the enemy and prolongs the war.  Period.  No debate about it.  You are right, at some point the Iraqi’s must stand up for themselves.  Documenting that date is inherently dangerous.  Only a fool would show his playbook to the other team during the game.  Only problem is, this is no game.  The lives of Americans are at stake at home and abroad.

3)      As I have stated before, there is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason.  I am not suggesting, nor have I ever suggested, the suppression of free speech.  I am stating, however, the suppression of seditious speech by our so called leaders for the purpose of political gain which jeopardizes the lives of Americans.  If the Democrats don’t like the direction of the war, they should be providing alternative approaches to VICTORY, which after all, is what the American people voted for last election.  Not the cut and run policy you would like us all to believe.

4)      Yes.  I believe it is the relentless drumbeat of the quitter Democrats and the MSM that have eroded our country’s moral.  The fact that we could not find WMD’s does not mean Bush lied and it does not dilute what we are trying to achieve there, despite your desire to believe that it does. You reference ambiguous goals.  To me, there is nothing ambiguous about assisting the Iraqi’s in establishing their new government.  Pretty clear cut to me, and is both measurable and achievable.  I hear the MSM call the goals ambiguous too.  That must be where you get your talking points.

5)      I agree.  It sure is hard to hide hatred.  You are walking talking proof of that.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

1.  Good, you have tacuitly

1.  Good, you have tacuitly conceded that Pelosi did something grossly innappropriate on her trip.  Now you try to excuse by saying that the Republicans did the same thing.  No they did not.  The Republicans who visited Syria did not openly or even privately admit to discussing an alternative US Foreign policy with the Syrian head of state. Go find out what the Logan Act outlaws and then tell me what Pelosi did that violated it.

2.  Ahhhh, another point conceded.  You clearly understand that setting a withdrawal date emboldens the enemy and increases his morale.  I get the point of setting a withdrawal date.  In this case, it is tantamount to setting a surrender dtate, which you clearly do not get and instead try to explain away the violence as Iraqi on Iraqi.  Mosty of the violence IS Iraqi on Iraqi, but there is still a determined Al Qaeda element which Al Qaeda claims is 12,000 strong and various other analysts think might be as few as 1,000 - 3,000 strong.  I think they are behind most of the violence directed at Americans.  Killing them might be sufficient to constitute victory conditions from our perspective.  We aren't in Iraq to mediate sectarian violence.  That is their problem.

3.  Another concession!   The actions of the anti-war crowd are hurting our troops by lowering their moreale and increasing the morale of the enemy.   This you attempt to excuse as free speech rights.  Investigate what happened to such dissenters in past wars excluding Vietnam.   Lincoln did not appreciate the Copperheads the way you appreciate these Liberal Democrats.   Wilson lacked an appreciation fior the American Bund.   FDR was most generous to the Nisei, and THEY didn't even do anything against American interests unlike the Bund and the Copperheads.   If you think stifling anti-war dissent is un-American, then you need to study what happens when these Islamofascists take over new territory.  It is Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg thousands of times repeated without the cool video.

4.  This is a real shocker.   You now claim the Democrats are not responsible for contributing to low American morale, this after admitting two points earlier they had.   It is all Bush's fault or somebody else's fault, etc, etc.  I am not even going to discuss this absurdfity in any detail since you've already contradicted yourself.

It is sure hard to hide intellectual dishonesty and stupidity, isn't it?

1)  I don't see anything ina

1)  I don't see anything inappropriate about her trip and I do believe that a more open discourse with countries in the middle east is necessary to our success there.  I wasn't trying to excuse her behavior b/c repbulicans did it too.  The it's ok because Clinton did it is your playbook, not mine.  I was simply wondering why her trip was so much more infuriating to you than that of the republicans that went on the trip.  If she violated the Logan Act as you claim, why hasn't anything been done about it?  I know why...because Bush and the State Department knew about the trip before they went.  Here's was Republican Rep. Rahall had to say to the exact charge you are making on an April 8th broadcast on CSPAN:

"CALLER: I am a Republican. And I thought under the Logan Act that Ms. Pelosi has committed a felony because under our Constitution, section 2 of the Constitution, that the president is the one who conducts — sends the people off, to conduct our foreign affairs. Now he told her he didn’t want her to go. That is a violation of the Logan Act. She should be hauled off in jail because if i was to commit a felony, i’d be hauled off and gone to jail.

RAHALL: First of all, that’s baloney. We were in violation of no u.s. laws. Second of all, the President did not tell her not to go, nor did the State Department tell us not to go. There were three Republican members of Congress in Damascus a few days before our trip. There was a Republican member of Congress in Damascus meeting with the President after our trip.

The Speaker had met with President Bush in the halls of the U.S. Capitol just the day before we left and mentioned to him that we were going to Syria. No response at all from the President. The State Department was certainly aware of our traveling to Syria and our full itinerary. And there were State Department officials in every meeting that we had on this codel. So that is all hogwash as far as I’m concerned. "

So as far as your first point your simply wrong or your lying.  Either way it's disingenuous.  So one down.

2)  I never conceded the point, I just conceded that I understood your rationale.  That being said, I find your rationale to be exceedingly flawed.  Since most of the violence has to do with Iraqis fighting Iraqis (which you concede) I see no reason why they should even care what the American public thinks.  They're going to fight each other whether we're there or not. 

3)  I am not sure that anything that goes on at home has any impact on the troops.  If it did their morale would be destroyed by seeing how carefree everyday Americans are.  How most people live everyday without a single thought about the war.  About how VT students shot get days and days of coverage while American troops are lucky to get a sentence in an obscure newspaper.  About how Americans know more about Sanjayas childhood than Iraq.  I think the most morale destroying aspect is the fact that most people in America don't even act like we're at war.  Forget the Dems, the problem is that we haven't had to sacrifice anything for this war and you can see it in how much people care
From speaking with my friends who are in Iraq (one in Fallujah who has no internet connection except for short stints about once a month and thus, really has no idea what's going on in America) their main mission in Iraq has nothing to do with political rhetoric.  They are fighting for each other and to protect each other and for the Iraqi civilians in their areas.  Anything outside of that is not important.  Granted this is the opinion of a few guys, but it seems that this is often the case.  Soldiers are doing their job and their main goal is to protect each other so everyone can come home alive.  To think that the Dems could have so much influence over our strong, brave, highly trained men and women is not giving them very much credit.  They're not children.

4)  The Dems are doing what they and their constituents think is right, just as you believe your attacks on them are right.  Ever heard of theory of mind?  You should look into it.  No visible accomplishments and an ever-increasing death toll is SOLELY to blame for low American morale. 

5)  Again way to stoop to a sandbox level with some sweet personal attacks. 

I only have time to address

I only have time to address your first point. But here is a story about the Presidents rebuke of Pelosi's trip to syria. If you don't think this was Bush telling her not to go then you are not being genuine.  And as I recall there were no other rebukes by the president to other members of congress for trips to Syria.  The reason probably is that they were approved in some manner by the SD.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

&quot;No visible accomplish

"No visible accomplishments and an ever-increasing death toll is SOLELY to blame for low American morale"

Oh, I read this gem in your fourth point. I can only come to the conclusion this was written by a politically blind person. You really should warn us Leon that your "red and white" cane is really just red.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

&quot;I am not sure that an

"I am not sure that anything that goes on at home has any impact on the troops."

That's because you don't know any nor have you talked to any. I know several troops and have talked to many others. They are "care free americans" when they are not out doing their job, keeping YOUR ass safe! You really don't have a clue kid.

You have succeded in losing all credibility in my eyes and are here to argue and nothing more. I am forced to revise Jimbo's estimation of your age downward.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Huh?

Surely you jest... How, specifically, has the Administration been undermined? Okay then, let's start.

1. Pelosi has no authority to enter into foreign policy dialogue with foreign governments, or the administrators therein. This power lies strictly with the office of the presidency, and those who is appointed under the president for these tasks, specifically.

2. By placing a "timetable" on the pullout of troops in Iraq, Congress oversteps their Constitutional authority, in acting as commanders of the US military forces, another power granted only to the president.

3. Reid makes the statement, "... the war is lost..." thereby giving the enemy in Iraq, terrorists, the comfort of knowing that if they persist just a little bit longer, the US troops will be forced to leave the country, and they will have won -- thereby enabling them to take over what part of the government they can. It will happen, if the government in Iraq is not strong enough to stand on its own when we make our eventual pullout.

Moving on to your second question:

Surely you jest -- how does this directly affect the troops on the ground? Anytime that a soldier on the ground hears his elected leaders in Congress, talk about them losing (Reid), about them being war criminals (Kerry, Kennedy), they lose morale. Morale is an interesting thing to a soldier. If they get depressed, they tend to be a little bit less aware of their surroundings in a combat zone. In addition, when morale is lost, they tend to sit back and ask, "What the hell are we doing this for?" The soldiers in Iraq know full well, what is happening in Iraq, something that Democrats, the press, and yourself, do not mention -- ever. They know that people like you ignore it, and talk about the bad things that occur, as if that is the only thing that happens there. Unlike Vietnam (where that happened without anything to the contrary reported), however, the soldiers in Iraq have the ability to actually get their views across, stay positive, and try to ignore the American left. There's only so much they can take, however, and some people do eventually cave into the notion that they (American soldiers) are not doing anything, and not getting anything accomplished.

Now, on to your final question:

What have Dems done to prevent us from getting anywhere? Their recent bills through Congress, for starters. By them attaching a timetable onto the appropriation and spending bill for additional funds, knowing the president would veto it if it crossed his desk in such form, they have denied necessary funds for the troops. That is a very specific, and very recent example for you to chew on for awhile.

Now, if you want to try and play this game... fine, we can do that. However, you need to stop talking in "rhetoric/talking points" and actually look at the situation without your liberal Bush-hating zombie mindset, and actually begin to look at what is happening.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Leon's Head Exploded

Leon’s head just exploded.

It is sad that the Liberal mindset, Leon’s included, is that they actually hope for the military to do poorly, for the enemy to kill more troops, and for Democracy in the region to fail.  Why?  So they can perpetuate their Bush Hatred with what their irrational minds will consider supporting facts… something that they have not truly had all this time.

It’s sad that people in this country have so little disregard for our safety, our military and our way of life.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

you obviously aren't interest

you obviously aren't interested in having an actual discussion and that's a real shame

B-Bye Troll

You fail to mention that I have attempted to have a rational debate with you at least a half dozen times, and those attempts have gone unanswered or were answered with distortions and half truths.  Have a nice day troll.  You bore me.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

apparently our view of ration

apparently our view of rational differs greatly.

That is the first acurate thi

That is the first acurate thing you have written in this entire thread.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Mr. Bishop,  Again thanks fo

Mr. Bishop,  Again thanks for the post.  I'm not avoiding you I just don't have the time right now to adequately reply.  I won't forget.

No problem

I understand how time is, and I know how hard it is to be able to reply on some matters. Take your time, as I probably won't be able to get to a reply to your reply anytime this evening anyhow. If I am unable to do so, and if you do reply, then I will try and reply tomorrow. However, as quickly as these threads and news postings propogate, don't be surprised if it takes me a few days to simply find where this whole conversation is taking place, and find your response thereafter.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Nice quote of Lincoln. If you

Nice quote of Lincoln. If you read the entire context of that speech, you'll see that he could be, in fact, talking to the Democrats and their current retreat bill.

"Under all these circumstances, do you really feel yourselves justified to break up this Government unless such a court decision as yours is, shall be at once submitted to as a conclusive and final r