When It Comes to Iraq Leadup, Media Left Flip-flops on Press Power

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Bill MoyersFor a crowd that was very insistent that America "move on" from the issues surrounding the impeachment of Bill Clinton, you'd think the far left would give it a rest when it comes to the subject of the lead-up to the Iraq war. It doesn't take much digging to conclude that whatever false intelligence the Bushies believed, the Clintonites did as well--as did the rest of the western world.

But the left, especially the loony left, is like a bulldog once it gets an idea into its head. The latest variant of this intellectual virus is that not only did President Bush "lie us into Iraq," the American press enabled, both willingly and unwillingly, his "lies." The argument is nonsensical, especially the part about how hard-core liberals like Pinch Sulzberger (and his newspaper which hasn't endorsed a Republican since Eisenhower) would actually advocate for a war launched by a Republican.

Aside from its factual erroneousness, however, there is another big problem with this argument being made by the media left: it flatly contradicts what they say about the press when it comes to the media's gross lack of ideological diversity.

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Normally, the media left insists that the press's role in politics is minimal. The press isn't dominated by liberals and even if it were skewed to the left, why aren't we in a one-party state? The fact that Democrats don't have complete control of the government is proof the media, even if they are liberal, are powerless to force their viewpoint onto the American people. The press, in other words, does not influence the national debate.

When it comes to Iraq, however, the media left completely changes its tune. Now, liberals like Bill Moyers tell us that had it not been for a "lapdog" press, President Bush would never have been able to foist his lies and deceit upon the American public. What to take away from all this? Apparently, the press is powerless in the national debate, but it also can stop Republican "lies."

This is classic having your cake and eating it too. In order to be consistent, you need to either believe both statements or disbelieve both. Moyers and his associates need to come clean and admit that if the press could have kept us out of Iraq, it certainly can help elect people who agree with its dominant philosophy. To do otherwise is ridiculous and hypocritical.

—Matthew Sheffield is the creator of NewsBusters and its Executive Editor.


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Makes you wonder

Kinda makes you wonder how we managed to sneak so many GOP Congresses past the all-powerful press, not to mention electing Bush over Gore. The press was so anxious to coronate the Gorifice that they called Florida before polls were closed in the part of the state in the Central Time Zone.

Makes you wonder as well who elected the press to make policy for the country.

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

This is the easiest talking point in the world to disprove.

The "lapdog media" talking point is actually pretty accurate. All you have to do is remind people how not just republicans....... but also democrats were up on the floors of congress just going at it demanding a new resolution on iraq.

This resolution:

http://www.pbs.org/n...

There was no way that the liberal media was going to undercut their buddies. The media was certainly a bunch of 'laptogs", but it had nothing to do with republicans. All you have to do is check congressional records from that time. How many democrats voted *FOR* this resolution? Heck, we've all seen the long list of 'democrats who said the same things about WMDs'.

This is *WHERE* alot of those words come from. These people said these things:

http://www.glennbeck...

They were said largely while they were pushing for harsher Iraq treatment. Check the congressional record. That's all you have to do to *EASILY* win this argument.

Some food for thought....

Wasn't it Faux News that first called Florida for Bush??

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." --President Abraham Lincoln

Or did Fox first call Bush

Or did Fox first call Bush on his DUI? One never knows with the Fox bias-allegations from long-ago...
JMR

Florida

Correctly, I might add.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Bill O'Reilly took Bill(Lia

Bill O'Reilly took Bill(Liar) Moyers to task on this on tonight's Factor. He even got very upset with Jane Hall when she unbelievedly pressed on with a defense of the Liar's own Bush Derangement Syndrome accusations.

Well, first of all, being i

Well, first of all, being inconsistent has never been a big problem in mainstream press -- witness how Bush was ragged for joining the Texas Guard instead of carrying a rifle in Vietnam, while only a few years earlier it was no big deal that Clinton had dodged the draft altogether. The only consistency is D=good, R=bad.

But I suspect this is all being done to provide cover, sooner or later, for Hillary and the others who voted for the Iraq resolutions. If Bush lied, and the press enabled the lies, then we can't blame Hillary if she was swept up in them. It would be difficult for the public to have any lower opinion of the MSM's credibility, so they're not sacrificing much in taking one for Team Democrat.

There was WMD ALL OVER IRAQ .

There was WMD ALL OVER IRAQ ... but the MSM has buried the stories on the 2 mobile biological weapons labs that were found, the HUNDREDS of illegal missiles and drones that Iraq had, the THOUSANDS of chemical-tipped artillery shells that were found, and the DOZENS of dual-use sites that were discovered.

The biggest lie about WMD's is that there WERE WMD's in Iraq.

And in my book tanks, aircraft, rpg's, machine guns, and ANY weapon in the hand of a murderous dictator is a WMD.

WMD ALL OVER IRAQ!!!!!!!

So josephsamuelson, you’re saying in your book that over 3000 military deaths, tens of thousands civilian casualties were caused because Hussein had conventional weapons that every tinhorn dictator has at their disposal. You do know that Colin Powell himself has discredited those “biological weapons labs”. Drones, illegal missiles, and thousands of chemical tipped artillery shells, say I know of 500 tons of yellowcake tucked away under a Hussein palace. As already discussed on this site before no one here has ever explained why IF that yellow cake were there in Iraq, why Hussein would try to buy more from Niger as President Bush has repeatedly stated. With the claims of yellowcake, drones and thousands of chemical tipped shells originating from the military, the recent conformation of what our military will say to promote this war (Tillman, Lynch etc) makes any claim by them highly suspect.

The most recent from our military is, “the surge is working”, and violence is down. Of course to make that statement they have had to take car bombs off the list of violent actions.

Why don’t you put up some links to that book of yours, it MUST be interesting reading. I can’t wait to see your sources for it.

Those who fail to learn history are destined to repeat it.....

WMD Troll ALERT

Justa Troll,

Inferring the absence of WMD in Iraq at the time of the invasion is proof of a lie is as contemptible as believing an American cut and run surrender benefits anyone but Democrat Party politics.  Any fallout from future terrorist actions will be Bush’s fault no doubt.

CT,Read justa's bio. I

CT,

Read justa's bio.

I'm guessing he has a large portrait of Jihad Jimmy displayed above his mantle, lined up neatly between his other two hereos, Stalin and Mao.

He thinks Reagan created Osama and complains about government spying on citizens (bet he had nothing to say about CARNIVORE and ECHELON, two data gathering programs under his other two heroes, Billy Bob White Trash Clinton and Al couldn't even win his home state Gore) which were far, far more intrusive than spying on potential terrorists.

He probably believes the US Constitution applies to non US citizens, too, especially the Islamo-fascists who have declared war on us.

Patriot? I think not, unless you consider Benedict Arnold to have been one.

This republic will not survive the continued neglect of its people.-
Neal Boortz.

It sure doesn’t take long t

It sure doesn’t take long to find students of the Karl Rove School of attack politics on this site. Don’t debate the message slander the messenger. Your right on one thing Dave R you are guessing, and it seems your batting zero so far, but hey I don’t believe in fortunetellers either. As far as your comment of our constitution, wasn’t it the Bush Administration who originally wanted it to apply to Iraq. I thought that was reason number three (to bring our western democracy and constitutional government to Iraq) after (reason 1) WMDs which weren’t found, and after (reason 2) the “ link “ of Al Qaeda and Iraq was completely discredited. He couldn’t use that one either.

  Just think how history would have been rewritten if that was the prevailing view at the time of the Magna Carta

Pretty weak, Justa.Blaming Ro

Pretty weak, Justa.

Blaming Rove.  Again.

As to rewriting the Magna Carta...I don't think so. That's the basis for our law.

Keep trying, tho.

"Go Al-Qaeda, Go! Fi

"Go Al-Qaeda, Go! Fight Al-Qaeda, Fight! Win Al-Qaeda, Win!"

"Give me an I... I.... Give me an E... E.... Give me a D.... D.... What's that spell? VICTORY!"

Another rousing cheer from JustanAl-QaedaPatriot!

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Justa Troll

The sheer irony between your post and your tagline of  “Those who fail to learn history are destined to repeat it” is astounding.  Strike that.  It’s appalling.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Surprise! A Lib doesn't trust the military

You don't trust the Military? What a surpise.

How about these sources? CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and the United Nations

  1. Sarin: MSNBC - Bomb said to hold deadly sarin gas explodes in Iraq
  2. Sarin: CBS News - Iraq Sarin Find Worries U.S.
  3. Mustard Gas, and Sarin: CNN - Gas shell findings a concern for Iraq arms inspector
  4. Mustard Gas, Sarin, and Tabun: UN report via Free Republic - 2003 UN Report: Iraq Sulfur Mustard Gas Chemical Weapons Have High Quality After 12 years of Storage

And before you say "The WMDs were degraded" just like the talking points tell you to, read the UN report.

funny

Excellent! A comprehensive

Excellent! A comprehensive list of two faced, back stabbing, political clowns.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

There are many paths to get to ones destination.......

As they say there are many paths to get to the same destination. The individuals in your referenced video and republicans had their sites on the same destination, those in the video tried to respect the rule of Law, and the sanctity of life in their path to overthrow Hussein. Mr. Bush and the republicans used the “what ever means necessary” path to overthrow Hussein.

       Not to say, “what ever means necessary” path does not have merit as a last resort.   We were far from “the last resort” option with Iraq. We had over flight permission on 2/3 of Iraq with shoot to kill procedures accepted and in place, he was in his box. We can now see what others were predicting going down the Bush Administrations path, needless death and destruction, world wide ridicule, the destabilization of the entire middle east oil region, the loss of thousand of young Americans (this is no draft Army, these people are truly our brightest and best), by creating a second front that has allowed those that supported those that attacked us on 9/11 to retake large portions of Afghanistan.

      For those who say if we leave Iraq Al Qaeda will follow us. Great they can follow us back to Afghanistan, because we will be there for decades.

 

 Those that fail to learn history are destined to repeat it………………

Justa Troll

When you and your ilk refer to President Bush as Mr. Bush, it shows a complete lack of respect for the Office of the President of the United States.  You subconsciously (or more than likely consciously) try to belittle the man, but you instead belittle the Office.  Do you know who was first in referring to a sitting President as “Mr.”?  You guessed it – the biggest disrespector of the Office in American history – MR. Bill Clinton.   Know who jumped on that bandwagon and contuse to ride it to this very day?  That’s right – the Main Stream Media!

PS - By the way - you really need to get a new tagline.  You obviously don't understand what it means.

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

No Jimbo, I respect the Offic

No Jimbo, I respect the Office of the President of the United States; I just don’t respect this individual who is in the Office of the President of the United States. No subconscious about it I am belittling this dolt. History will show Mr. Bush as the pivotal influence of the downturn in American influence, prestige and power around the world for generations to come. Nationally he has polarized the country, invoked powers he does not have, Abused our civil liberties, and trashed our bill of rights.

My guess would have been Mr. Rutherford B. Hayes.( Man another fortuneteller on this site :) )

As for as my tag line, you need to look deeper my fellow citizen……

 

Justa Boring Guy.

Justa Boring Guy.

Keep hearing

I keep hearing how history will show... history will show... history will show. Funny thing is, I heard that about Reagan. Even more funny, is that history has shown Reagan as the leader that defied communism, and brought the Soviet Union down.

How stupid you must be, to think that Bush polarized the country. Bill Clinton won the 1994 election with 43% of the popular vote. That means that 57% of the people voted against him, yet we were somehow "unified"? In 1998, Bill Clinton won the election with 49% of the popular vote. That means that 51% of the people voted against him, yet we were "unified"? The country has been "polarized" for many years, and Bush has done nothing more to increase that polarization. You cannot show one power that he has "invoked, but doesn't have", and I welcome your attempts to do so. Bush has not abused our civil liberties, and I welcome your attempts to prove otherwise. Bush has not now, nor has he ever, trashed our Bill of Rights -- and you cannot name one Amendment that he has violated, or somehow denied an American citizen, not charged with terrorism against the United States (which, by the way, falls under the direction of war prosecution, not legal).


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

I will certainly agree with y

I will certainly agree with you Mr. Bishop that the elections in 92 and 96 (must have been a typo) produced a less than 50% vote for Mr. Clinton, but that result could be a result less about polarization than having 3 candidates on the ballot. The absent of polarization is not necessarily unity. Disagreement is not equal to polarization. Polarization in my comment relates to one of the primary planks of Bush’s 2000 campaign, which was unity. That’s what he ran on for people to vote for him UNITY

 The great unifier he said he was, able to bring the two sides together.

     The powers Bush has “invoked” will be made apparent as our Congress works through the investigations of his signing statements and authorizations.

     Civil liberties not abused? The first one that comes to mind is the sneak and peek as it is referred to. By the way, any gun enthusiast should take note that your rights ended with law enforcements ability to enter your home secretly, do anything they want, without strict judicial involvement.

     There used to be checks in our government to balance the powers that each branch has been given, and balance the powers of government with the rights of the citizenry, with this administration those checks and balances are not there now. My understanding is the reason the FISA court was set up because Nixon used intelligence agencies in his espionage against anti war Americans

You hit the nail on the head with your statement

     “ and you cannot name one Amendment that he has violated, or somehow denied an American citizen, not charged with terrorism against the United States”

Without the checks and balance in government all law enforcement has to do is attach the word “terrorism” to a persons file and bang, no rights at all.

Typo -- yes

I am still getting use to the bigger keyboard, having used a laptop for 3 years now.

However, discussing your point about 3 persons on the ballot: If you recall... there were more then 3 on the ballot in 2000, and Bush won with 49% of the vote (remember, Nader was blamed?). In 2004, there were 3 still... with Nader involved, and Bush still got 51% of the vote. The issue with Clinton was not that Perot was involved, it's that most of the country did not want Clinton, and that is a statistically proven fact, based upon the margin(s) he won by.

Now, on to your other things: Statements and authorizations? Statements are not law, nor are they policy, so they are irrelevant to this conversation. Authorizations? Besides Executive Orders, which are legal, and to which he has every right to sign, what do you refer to? Do you refer to the 8 US Attorneys? We've beaten this horse to death, I thought, but I could be wrong -- he has every right to fire 8 US Attorneys, for any reason at all.

Sneak and Peak and other areas of the USA PATRIOT Act: Have you ever read the USA PATRIOT Act? I'd wager a defining no on that. I have because I was bored one night at work... very bored. You know what 95% of the first lines of the USA PATRIOT Act start with? Recalling... they start with the wortd, "Recalling". Each of the sections in the USA PATRIOT Act recalls laws already in existance, for fighting organized crime, and places them under the umbrella of fighting terrorism. As such, and since Bush did not pass anything, he merely signed it into law, your statement that he abuses civil liberties, is false. As for anything else... whether or not police can enter my home, with only a sneak and peak warrant, means very little. I care little, since I do nothing illegal. However, in case you didn't know, FISA (which is where the whole sneak and peak thing revolves around) denies them the ability to knowingly do so to American citizens without a regular warrant.

Checks and balances: Yes there are checks and balances designed in the US Consitution. In those checks and balances, the forefathers designed it so that no president could get too powerful. They also designed it so no congress could get too powerful also. Your understanding of the FISA Courts is grossly in error. The FISA Act was designed to combat in areas where national security issues would normally stop the FBI from asking for a warrant for anything because doing so in open court meant there would be public record. That is the reasoning.

Terrorism: Terrorism, is defined similar to saboteur and espionage in the list of crimes against this country. If someone is caught in the act of sabotage during a war, they fall outside the realm of "civilian courts", as do spies. The same holds true with terrorists. This has been true since the early 20th Century, and the US Supreme Court has routinely held this as true.

Finally: You need to show me where a person has no rights being charged with terrorism. Only US citizens have rights granted them under the US Constitution, so Gitmo prisoners are out. Only Jose Padilla could possibly have the argument made in your favor, but when I last read, although the US Supreme Court ruled he could not be held indefinitely, they never said when he had to be tried either. As such, being held under the label of terrorist, still stands as a legitimate way to hold someone during a time of war, like saboteur and spy -- especially in this war.

The bottom line, is the statements you have made, are the same empty statements I have heard about Bush for several years now. There is no proof, only recited talking points, with no substance attached to them. I have read the USA PATRIOT Act, the FISA Act, and I suggest you do also, from beginning to end. Neither of those laws infringe on civil liberties of citizens of the United States of America.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

Wasn’t the issue that you u

Wasn’t the issue that you used, the Clinton elections information, was to show polarization in the country. While we’ve had wide differences in the electorate throughout our electoral history Clinton’s vote numbers I would say are more about the number of candidates in the election and the varied views of each candidate than polarization.  Since you brought up the 2004 elections, it’s unfortunate that the republicans had to resort to propaganda and attack not the issues, but the messengers as unpatriotic. One example is the flip-flop charge; anyone who knows the workings in our government would know that bills go through a lot of changes before they are presented to the President. By voting against one version of the bill doesn’t mean you are voting against all the information in that bill. From what I’ve read from your comments you are an intelligent individual and would know this fact. By injecting propaganda and smear campaigns attacking Kerry by putting one vote on armor out there, repeating over and over by republican hacks O’Reily, Limbaugh, Hannity and associates, the perception (not truth) was turned into truth. The same situation about his raising taxes, 350 times was a complete lie, but listening to the republican spin machine over and over this was also turned into “truth”. So much for the idea that the main stream media was in the lefts pocket, while they reported it, one heard the “raised taxes 350 times in Congress” 20 times to one accurate report. The republicans certainly got the draw on the democrats when it came to propaganda and spinning in that election, but should our elections be based on hype and innuendo, or facts on the issues? Time is short for me right now; I’ll have to finish my rebuttal to you on the other material later. I would hope we can agree that respectful debate and conversation to air our differences is a common denominator, and all of us should reject the Carl Rove styled propaganda events.

  Lincoln had a great statement that rang so true for the 2004 election  “You may fool all the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all the time.”

 

BDS

(sigh)

An acute case of BDS.

In refreshing my memory on th

In refreshing my memory on this post, I can see where my bias against this administration certainly must come through. In thinking if I had these concerns with the dirty politics, I’m sure you also had similar feelings only against Kerry. I must say I didn’t come across anything rememberable that was so totally off base coming from the democrats. Do you have two or three “lies” that you heard against Bush coming from the democratic national or state campaign? I want to give the general electorate the benefit of the doubt, so no 501c’s or 527 organisations. Everybody should know to take any of these with a skeptical eye.

"We were far from “t

"We were far from “the last resort” option with Iraq"

Correct you are, with 12 years of Hussein flipping the US and the UN the bird, we could have waited another 12,24,36 years. Yep, after a few nuked and smoldering US cities then we would get serious with the cuddly mustached prince of pratical jokes.

Just how old are you?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Liberals first choice metho

Liberals first choice method of getting rid of Saddam Hussein.... OLD AGE.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Cuba

Worked great in Cuba!

Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"

Yes MightyMouth, that Hussein

Yes MightyMouth, that Hussein has been flipping us for 12 years. Tell me the lost lives in our military were worth the satisfaction that Hussein is not flipping us off anymore. Tell me that losing our eye on the real enemy Al Qaeda in Afghanistan was worth getting Hussein to stop flippin us. We have a saying round here “ you never get in a pissing contest with a skunk”. Hussein was a skunk. Al Qaeda is our enemy. We certainly know for a FACT it would not have been Hussein attacking us with nukes. As with many societies when the citizens get so disgruntled with it’s ruling power, revolution becomes the last resort. As with the Iraqi’s it was only a matter of time before the entire infrastructure of the society would have collapsed and Hussein would have been replaced. All we did was hasten that point, and now we see with him gone the collapse of the society. George Bush Sr. knew that, he stayed clear of that skunk, and Ronald Reagan knew that too, winning a hot war  with the Soviet Union would have been catastrophic, where engaging in a spending war on armaments is a whole lot less messy.

 

Wrong and more wrong

<sigh>

It never ceases to amaze me, that someone with such obvious hatred toward this country, can so easily make so many mistakes.

Were the lives lost in Iraq, worth it? Yes -- speaking as someone who has been there, and who has known people lost, yes -- it was worth it. And the reasons are multiple. The biggest reason of all, is that with the battlefield of terrorism being over there, it's not being fought here. You may claim that we should be in Afghanistan fighting, but the problem is -- you think the War on Terror equates to the War on Al Qaeda, or even the War on bin Laden. It doesn't -- it's the War on Terror for a reason, and that reason is there is more then one terrorist organization out there, and Hussein also had one -- it was called the Baathist Party. They terrorized their entire countryside.

You think, as is obvious by your posting, that the only WMD to ever worry about, is a nuclear weapon. This is just not true. One of the WMDs that Hussein had available to him, is VX nerve gas -- a colorless, odorless liquid chemical agent, that when vaporized, kills thousands with the tiniest amount. One very possible scenario to imagine, is someone coming to Chicago, from Canada with a 2-liter 7-Up bottle (or 2) filled with VX. This same person, since he does not have to go through customs, simply offloads his bottles, which are in his backpack, and goes to the top of the Sears Tower with a nice C4 vest attacked to himself. Doing this in the middle of winter, when no one would notice a person in an overcoat is a particularly nice touch... Anyhow, upon arriving at the top of the tower, this person detonates his bomb, and sprays 4 liters of VX into the air of Chicago. There aren't enough Mark IV kits in this country to counteract the damage that would cause in a short amount of time. Hundreds of thousands, literally, of Chicago people, would be dead. And get this: unlike radioactive substances, you cannot simply walk around the marina with a geiger counter to find some trace. It's very easy to hide the trace of VX, and it's a very easy substance to transfer from place to place.

You're wrong on the issue of George HW Bush also. Bush wanted to be rid of Saddam Hussein at the end of the Persian Gulf War. However, our allies in the Middle East, known as the Arab League, made it very specifically known -- their support was limited to only so much as Kuwait was freed. The instance that we looked like we would invade Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein, they would withdraw their support, and consider it an act of war against them.


"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" -
Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"

To start a conversation and d

To start a conversation and debase the other person isn’t going to get this country together again Mr. Bishop. If I hated this country as much as you imply, I certainly would not bother with attempting to engage with individuals of different ideas. I could easily just sit back and let history be the judge.

I also want you to know that as I engage here I also engage with my representatives and to anyone that will listen to make sure you and all the soldiers get all the material you need, regardless of costs.

Rumsfeldt was wrong again, you don’t elect to go to war with the army you have, you only elect to go to war when you have the army you want

 As for the idea that Iraq is the front line this article article might give you some perspective. In a nutshell, the vast majority of violence in Iraq is sectarian civil war, not “terrorism” attacking United States interests

Yes it is a dangerous world out there, but the nightmare scenario you describe could occur with anyone with a grudge, and a lot of money. Look at the anthrax attacks a few years back, government anthrax in the hands of a loner. What is needed is militaries to make dam sure that their WMD’s are under control, first responders that know what to do, have the equipment to handle the situation, and a populace that is given accurate instruction to follow. That $500 billion that we have spent “keeping the enemy over there” just is not going to be sustainable. Do you remember the early sixties with terrorists hijacking and planting bombs in Europe? How did that continent deal with those terrorists? What ever they did we need to follow because they were able to put and end to that threat. These were both secular and religious groups making demands and statements. The only differences seem to be are the size of the carnage. Although if it’s your loved one or family member that dies, the total devastation is inconsequential, you are totally devastated.

I’m sure George H wanted to get ride of Hussein, but I’m intrigued, are you saying he wanted to march to Baghdad and couldn’t because of the Arab League? What I’ve read on the subject is he knew the balance that would have been upset in the region if he continued to Baghdad, so he didn’t.

cake

It's "eating your cake then having it too"...not the common "visa versa" mistake of "having your cake and eating it too"

Exactly Matthew - can't have

Exactly Matthew - can't have it both ways.  I don't disagree that the press was okay with the lead up or going in.  Neither were most Democrats.   It was only the fringe left in the beginning.  The press has gone further left now and it's to the point of being mere propaganda of the left.   They only changed once the rest of the Dems changed. 

If Hillary and O'bama were out there saying that a withdrawal of the troops would be a disaster that is what they would be conveying.  Just because they don't go as far as propaganda for Kucinich or Ralph Nater doesn't mean they aren't left.

This Blog deserves the NB Cot

This Blog deserves the NB Cotton Candy Award for January - April 2007.  It has the appearance of some bulk, a lurid color, and perhaps an attractive sweet taste for the non-discerning - but no substance whatsoever.

If MS disagrees with the facts in Mr. Moyer's documentary - dispute them.  With facts.  But don't just spin, spin, spin and expect to arrive at any desirable destination.  You'll simply remain where you begin, rather dizzy from the process...

LOL! We can't dispute Moyers'

LOL! We can't dispute Moyers' "documentary's" facts, because there were no "facts" to dispute in it, J. Fred. 

After all, he spent between 1/4 and 1/3 of his entire show with Phil Donahue, who claimed that his low-rated MSNBC show was cancelled because he was "anti-Bush".

Tell us again why you, as a secular-progressive, are willing to hitch his wagon to the star of a man (Moyers) who got a Bachelor of Divinity Degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, was ordained as a minister, and then lectured on "Christian Ethics" at Baylor.

And, as I have noted before, Moyers did this, according to right wing reference source Wiki:

"In October 1964 Walter Jenkins resigned from Johnson's staff after being arrested in a men's room in Washington, and Moyers became the President's informal chief of staff. According to Laurence H. Silberman—who examined J. Edgar Hoover's secret files upon their discovery in 1974— Moyers, in his capacity as chief of staff, directed Hoover to have the FBI investigate Barry Goldwater's staff to find similar evidence of homosexual activity, to be used in case Goldwater brought up Jenkins's arrest as a campaign issue. According to Silberman, Moyers at first claimed that the memo was a forgery, but then admitted to him that it was genuine."

Try again.

Are  you disputing that Mr.

Are  you disputing that Mr. Donahue's show was not one of the highest rated programs on MSNBC?  Would it be logical for a struggling network to prune it's flower and water its weeds?

As for facts, Mr. Moyers' work is full of them.  For example - we have a White House that leaks like a 300K Yugo.  It plants stories right and left - National Intelligence and security be damn'd - when it wants to.  It objects when The Times publishes "confidential" information - unless, of course, it leaked it to the Times in the first place.  So Mr. Vice President can go on the talk shows the next day and quote the newspaper that's running the story his ilk planted there the day before...

Buying the War is a remarkable piece of work.  Dispute the facts if you can, but save us the spin.

As for what poor Mr. Jenkins did in the men's room so many years ago, your fascinating with that says a good deal more about you than about any of the folks you named.  We just leaned today about a prominent member of this Administration's proclivities to hire hookers - not for sex of course,  The sad part is I almost tend to believe him...