Scientists Demand Changes to ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ DVD

Photo of Noel Sheppard.
By Noel Sheppard | April 26, 2007 - 10:40 ET

This is really hysterical: a group of scientists has sent a letter to the producer of the British documentary “The Great Global Warming Swindle” (video available here) demanding that changes be made to the film before the DVD version is released.

Yet, despite the egregious errors and factual misstatements made by soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore in his schlockumentary “An Inconvenient Truth,” no such call occurred when it was released on DVD.

Why the double standard?

Regardless of the obvious hypocrisy, the Associated Press reported (h/t NB member Sick-n-Tired, emphasis added throughout):

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An open letter sent Tuesday by 38 scientists, including the former heads of Britain's academy of sciences and Britain's weather office, called on producer Wag TV to remove what it called "major misrepresentations" from the film before the DVD release -- a demand its director said was tantamount to censorship.

Bob Ward, the former spokesman for the Royal Society, Britain's academy of science, and one of the letter's signatories, said director Mark Durkin made a "long catalog of fundamental and profound mistakes" -- including the claim that volcanoes produce more carbon dioxide than humans, and that the Earth's atmosphere was warmer during the Middle Ages than it is today.

Pay particular attention to this next paragraph, for the irony is so delicious, it should be served with a fine Cabernet:

"Free speech does not extend to misleading the public by making factually inaccurate statements," he said. "Somebody has to stand up for the public interest here."

Done laughing yet? After all, folks like Gore are making a fortune doing exactly that as they mislead the entire world. And, of course, members of the media are guilty of making factually inaccurate statements on this and many issues on a daily basis with little outrage.

Once again, why the double standard?

Fortunately, “Swindle’s” director will not be bullied:

Durkin called the letter "loathsome."

"This is a contemptible, weasel-worded attempt to gag scientific criticism, and it won't work," he said. "I don't believe they're interested in quality control when it comes to the reporting of science -- so long as it's on their side."

Exactly.

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.

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Sounds like good news. Hopefu

Sounds like good news. Hopefully these attempts to silence will only perk further interest amongst the general population, forcing the AGWarmism pushers right where they don't want to be...in the middle of a public debate. Sweet.

What only 38 scientists if th

What only 38 scientists if there were true and verifiable "major misrepresentations" in the film I would have expected more scientists involved. I also found it interesting that author of the letter complained to Britain's media regulator as "British broadcast law demands impartiality on matters of major political and industrial controversy -- and penalties can be imposed for misrepresentations of fact" doesn’t "An Inconvenient Truth" deserve the same scrutiny?

I'm sure if they demand an op

I'm sure if they demand an opposing view. there are people who will also demand that the views fo those who disagree be presentented in warmer shows.

They don't win in open debates. Their only hope is to silence others.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Exactly!  I want to see thei

Exactly!  I want to see their letter criticizing Algore’s film.

What?  It doesn’t exist!

Sounds to me like these are what is known as "Leftist Scientists".

I believe that Jesus had a saying that covered this situation.

It went something like this:

Don’t concern yourself with the speck of dust in your neighbors eye until you remove the cinders in your own eye.

I was watching Fox & Frie

I was watching Fox & Friends this morning and they were at some red carpet event.  Fox had a correspondent on location asking the 'stars' if they could get along with Sheryl Crows one square of T.P. rule.  As opposed to poking a little fun at the suggestion, instead, all of the stars went into defensive mode defending SC and the 'movement of awareness '(a term I personally am sick and tired of hearing) and some were even condescending to the Fox rep.  I would like to say I was shocked but wasn't. 

So you see, whether it is the Goracle or the likes of SC and Laurie David you must not criticize or show dissent!

Poking fun aside, Fox News wo

Poking fun aside, Fox News would better serve the public by button holing the celebs if they have ordered their solar panels and wind turbines yet and when can we expect them to be off the electric grid.  Forcing people to address "their" problem is far more effective than making sarcastic remarks or gotcha questions.  Hold their feet to the fire as it were.

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

Exactly.  That is why I like

Exactly.  That is why I like the fact that, prior to the red carpet cut, they had Sen. Imhofe further calling out Gore and the likes of the rest of them.  The drum needs to be beaten much harder until they cave and put their money where their mouths are.....thou shall practice what thou preaches!

....thou shall practice wha

....thou shall practice what thou preaches!

Think those elite stars and starlets will demand:

No more explosions in movies.

No more fires in movies.

No more car chases in movies.

No more open flames in movies.

No more smoking in movies.

???

I think not.

D


A day without NewsBusters is like a day without sunshine.

That all falls under the cat

That all falls under the category of art.  How is it relevant?  Please don't bring us into your politics.

Hollywood

Would not do any good. All th

Would not do any good. All they would say is that they have bought their alotted carbon offsets for the year to compensate for their lack of "living the lifestyle" they are trying to force on us.

Who in the hell came up with

Who in the hell came up with this carbon offset crap anyways?!  It is such a joke!

I don't know who invented i

I don't know who invented it, but the Goracle is making a nice little hunk o' change buying offsets from the company that he owns part of!

Isn't that nice? Paying himself that way... A form of recycling money, I suppose.

Open Letter

This kind of open letter is released for dramatic  effect.   Less politically motivated people would approach the producers privately with a list of erratum and perhaps publish that list if necessary.

Laurie David seems to be using he same open letter technique in her Huffington Post comments aimed at Rush Limbaugh. The left is religious in its zeal and medieval in its intolerance.

My reading of the Commitee on Surface Temperature Report  is that:

  1. Surface temperatures have increased over the past 400 years as the Earth pulled out of a 'Little Ice Age'.
  2. By 1950, the temperature was back up to where it was 1000 years ago, well before any possible big effects of human releases of CO2.
  3. Since 1950, the increase in temperature has been less than 1 F, which is too small to measure accurately or be concerned about. Indeed, since 1950 there was a period of a few years where there were concerns about 'global cooling'.
  4. We have very little idea just why the Earth went into the Little Ice Age or just why it came out, but apparently humans releasing CO2 have had little or nothing to do with it.

Like it or not. There is evid

Like it or not. There is evidence that it has been warmer and as warm on a number of occasions. Because their "opinions" differ doesn't make it so. Unless they have been endowed with divine power.

Being 60 scientist wrote to the Canadian government against AGW. All they could muster was 38?

These people should stop calling themselves scientist. They crossed over into the realm of religion.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Mt. St. Helens - top polluter

I apologize for loosing the source - but this should play into the conversation.. And I admit- Mt. St. Helens does not do such burping, 365 days a year.

Mount St. Helens Is State's Top Polluter

Thu Dec 2, 3:32 AM ET

SEATTLE - Washington state's top polluter isn't a pulp mill, a power plant or refinery. It's the newly awakened Mount St. Helens.

Since the volcano began erupting in early October, it has been pumping out 50 to 250 tons a day of sulfur dioxide, the lung-stinging gas that causes acid rain and contributes to haze. At peak, that's more than double the amount from all the state's industries combined. ..

.."You can't put a cork in it," said Greg Nothstein of the Washington Energy Policy Office.

But if/when it does erupt li

But if/when it does erupt like it did in 1980, 250 tons of SO2 will be miniscule to what it spews then...there was so much crap that spewed out during the eruption it turned a mid-Spring day darker than night. One volcano eruption does far more damage to the surrounding environment than humans could. If I remember correctly there was so much volcanic ash, the cloud circled the earth! I remember driving with my parents through Yakima, Washington (about 100 miles away from Mt St Helens) in 1985 (more than 5 years after the eruption), and volcanic ash was still piled up everywhere along the sides of the road.

Mt. Rainier erupting would be even worse...some 2-3 million people live within 150 miles of it.

And some scientists continue to think man has more influence than nature does.

"Yeah, right! Who's the only one here that knows illegal ninja moves from the government?!" --Napoleon Dynamite

Dr. Love - Here's 2 billion tons more

Yup! - speaking of lots of CO2 -- OK, so I'm stealing this from some greeniee site:   "burning of peatlands in Borneo and Sumatra can contribute up to 2 billion tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere in some years, making Indonesia the third largest greenhouse gas polluter, despite having only the world's 22nd largest economy."

PS - Help - somewhere out there on a NASA or NOAA site, I read that a few years ago (a bad year), forest fires contributed 60% of the world's total C02 for that year. Throw in a few volcanos, Rosie - and we're almost up to 100%. 

MGDL....just wait till the Ye

MGDL....just wait till the Yellowstone Super Volcano goes up.  I can hear the Greenies already. I wonder why they are not protesting this possible eruption now? Get the jump on it. Maybe they figure that it will produce enough dust and ash to cool the planet into a permanent winter.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

If they get enough people to

If they get enough people to sign a petition and picket at the site, they can change volcanic policy! I think I could get onboard with the Greenies once they get all the natural "polluters" to change their policies.

</sarcasm>

"Yeah, right! Who's the only one here that knows illegal ninja moves from the government?!" --Napoleon Dynamite

Hey hey.  Ho ho.  Volcano c

Hey hey.  Ho ho.  Volcano carbon has got to go.

Hey hey.  Ho ho.  Volcano carbon has got to go ...

It's Not Censorship When It Comes From The Left

Sorry I don't have time to find a link right now, but I seem to recall a big hullabaloo (sp?) about the Bush administration asking a government employee to take said employee's unsupported political opinions out of policy documents that were being created specifically for the administration. Imagine that, an employer insisting on an employee to stick to the facts. But oh, the crying of censorship. Congressional hearings, headlines, and more BDS.

On the other side, when an independent producer creates a film and wants to reach a wider audience, be it a film that covers the Clinton administration's record on combatting terrorism, or a film with some actual facts about AGW, it's not censorship to use the full force and power of government to stop such irresponsible dissent.

I'm sure Stalin would be proud.

Hunter/Giuliani 2008

That would be NASA scientist

That would be NASA scientist James Hansen, who was seen on just about every talk/news show in the country crying about how the government was "silencing" him (after repeatedly making projections that were demonstrably waaay off the mark). Talk about the "silence" being deafening...

Mr. Hansen also admitted to d

Mr. Hansen also admitted to doing hundreds of interviews in the preceeding months. Yet he has the gall to cry about being silenced.

I understand he also campagne

I understand he also campagned for and received a nice grant/award or/from John Kerry.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Much as I like the 'The Gre

Much as I like the 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' the part about volcanic carbon dioxide figures dwarfing human related release is clearly incorrect and it should be amended for the DVD since I'd rather we hit them with cold hard indisputable facts. Let's not provide the other side with an easy way to disregard all the facts in the entire production.

Based on a 1991 study by Gerlach.
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

Here's more up to date information where the scientists admit their previous estimates of volcanic CO2 emissions where off by a factor of 3-4.

Expert on volcanic gases exsolves from USGS

" More recently, Terry led studies that improved our understanding of the release of carbon dioxide (CO2) from Kilauea, Alaska, and Cascade volcanoes and Long Valley and Yellowstone calderas in the U.S., and Mt. Popocatepetl in Mexico. The results for Kilauea, in particular, showed that previous emission rate estimates were off by about a factor of three to four. Although volcanic output of CO2 is dwarfed by the amount released when humans burn fossil fuels, volcanoes do contribute significantly to the natural carbon cycle of the Earth. Gerlach's leadership in enhancing the quality of these measurements and their interpretation is already improving the accuracy of global volcanic CO2 release estimates."

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2006/06_10_26.html

Here he comments on Mount Saint Helens being the States biggest polluter.

Mount St. Helens the state's No. 1 air polluter

" Worldwide, people and their activities pump 26 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, he said. The total from volcanoes is about 200 million tons a year — or less than 1 percent of the man-made emissions."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002105397_volcano01m.html

Obviously large scale eruptions can have dramatic effects on the weather but this is not due to CO2 release. It's due to the extremely large amount of crap (technical term) thrown up into the atmosphere.

Cheers,
Flash

PS: I'll not bother to go into the falsehoods in Al Gore's little effort since they're all well known. At least they are by the more informed and skeptical amongst us.

I didn't recall who made the

I didn't recall who made the statement. Granted one can find research to contradict just about any aspect of science. Said contradictory research may be acurate or not.

If we are to change something everytime someone objects. No one will ever be able to talk.

It should be up to the person making the statement to leave it out or not. As I don't know the reason for said statement. He may be aware of contradictory research or have negative opinions on the research you state.

After all. I don't see them pulling Oreskes conclusions. And her research has be shown to be highly flawed.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

I would bet that carbon dio

I would bet that carbon dioxide emissions from the trona (hydrated sodium carbonate/bicarbonate) mines in the Green River area of Wyoming are greater than carbon dioxide emissions from volcanoes in the continental US, anyway. Some of the trapped carbon dioxide deposits are as big as typical natural gas deposits.

There are a number of English scientists, especially representing the Royal Society, who are very favorable to the Blair program, and have no interest in the public doubting their analysis or the validity of the English economic programs based on their catastrophe theories. (I can hear the howling now, betting I'm on the oil industry payroll)

Nope. I can't understand why our war ally, England, has gone way out on the edge on this one. I believe Mr Blair, when he leaves office, will return to the US, and ask a Democrat administration to be their "war ally" on preventing The Greatest Catastrophe in the Histroy of the Earth.

I hope we "cool off" by then, before the West takes real steps to demolishing their own economies. Right now it is mostly just talk. But really bad stuff, really bad decisions, are possible

Miles, that is the point, to

Miles, that is the point, to demolish the US economy so socialism will be seen as acceptable.  Capitalism has so outpaced socialism that the little people are beginning to question, we can't have questioning can we?  The only way to hog tie Capitalism is to tax it to death or use a stealth tax called carbon credits and carbon caps.  By capping carbon emissions, which they equate with industrial output, they hope to hobble the economy enough so the socialism looks good again.  But since they know if Capitalism is allowed enough time and freedom of action, we would switch to nuclear thus defeating the entire point of the program.  Hence they continue to be against nuclear power or any other real solution that may present itself, e.g. windpower off of Nantucket opposed by Ted Kennedy.

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

&quot;Who in the hell came

"Who in the hell came up with this carbon offset crap anyways?! It is such a joke!"

I don' t know who came up with it, but I know none other than Enron and Ken Lay himself were big proponents of such schemes back in the 90's when Clinton and Gore were in office, and had more than one meeting with the 2 in support of them.

Bingo, just as Occidental Pet

Bingo, just as Occidental Petroleum is into energy marketing as well just like Enron was!  Guess who owns subtancial holdings in Occidental Petroleum???  That's right, the planet's savior, Dr. Al Gore...

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

Just a few errors is Swindle:

Just a few errors is Swindle:

1. Volcanoes produce more CO2 than humans.
2. Use of uncorrected satelite data.
3. Musrepresentation of Dr. Carl Wunsch.
4. Using old data and distorting graphs.
5. Uncorrected and outdated sunspot data.

This film is a joke, except to ideologues who would believe it if it told them incorns cause GW--as long as Gore is wrong, right fellas?

What's that smell? Will so

What's that smell?

Will somebody open a window???

Troll turds.

Troll turds. <sorry, I mean "droppings">

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

How to get a concensus. S

How to get a concensus. Simply disreguard every scientific study that contradicts the religion of global warming and viola.... Concensus.

I can see throaty now with his fingers in his ears, chanting... "I'm not listening.. I'm not listening.. I can't hear you..."

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Jerry, I keep asking myself

Jerry, I keep asking myself why the left loves this issue so much. You may have just answered it for me. They are little kids having a tantrum and trying to get the adults to notice them. I suspect that's the case with thoaty, can't explain why president Bush is on board though. Notice how the looney tunes don't give Bush credit for being on their side of this issue?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Nahh.. You had it right MM

Nahh.. You had it right MM. Troll TURDS (Totally Un-informed Regurgitations of Democrat Strategies).

Personally, I think GW movement has it's roots in man's desire to worship the creation instead of the Creator (earth worship). Not saying the majority of followers are earth worshipers, just a comment on the origin of the movement.

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

MM I for one think there's mo

MM I for one think there's more. They lack the gonads to deal with the real problems of today. Like people trying to kill us.

You can reclaim your manhood by attacking an imaginary problem like the carbon atom. Rather than a terrorist with a bomb.

Of course. If we rid the world of all carbon. We wouldn't be here. nor any plants or animals.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Not just disregard. Through t

Not just disregard. Through the magic of warmer logic you declare that those who think you're wrong actually agree with you. That's oreskes did. And so many warmers.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

&quot;This film is a joke,

"This film is a joke, except to ideologues who would believe it if it told them incorns cause GW.."

Bingo. An Inconvenient Truth is a JOKE, except to the ideologues who would believe it if they were told man causes Pluto to be cold and Mercury to be hot.

And what the heck is an incorn?? I've heard of unicorns, and corns on your toes, and corn on the cob, and corny jokes, and corn pone... but incorn?

When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment
vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any
President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).

Wow, the purported scientist

Wow, the purported scientist is being a little childish, is he not? Hey, did you ever read those papers by Gilbert N Plass? I can give complete citations if you're having trouble. I know it's from the 1950s, but it never hurts to be on the cutting edge of the science, right?

Just a few errors in GW Alarm

Just a few errors in GW Alarmism:

1. Extrapolated claims that don't and can't account for all the unknowns...making the claims completely irrelevant.

2. Computer models with extremely limited algorithms that can't possibly give even a close estimate of truth...not to mention the models can be programmed to return a desired or "expected" outcome in addition to being prone to human error in both programming and data entry.

3. Al "Do As I Say, Not As I Do 'Cause I've Got Carbon Credits And You Don't" Gore.

4. James "I'm Being Silenced By Bush Even Though I've Done Over 150 Interviews And Continue To Get More" Hansen.

5. No acknowledgement of solar activity's impact on climate.

6. Placing the blame on mankind.

7. Followers that can't think for themselves.

and on and on...

The GW alarmists are the joke. Beating the GW alarmism drum with the so-called "proof" or supporting evidences they claim is utter ridiculousness.

"Yeah, right! Who's the only one here that knows illegal ninja moves from the government?!" --Napoleon Dynamite

&quot;This film is a joke,

"This film is a joke, except to ideologues who would believe it if it told them incorns cause GW--as long as Gore is wrong, right fellas?"

The irony is it's guys like you who have chosen to believe anything about global warming, as long as it can somehow be tied to the fault of man and the evil oil companies.

Most of us on the other side believe GW is possible, and "may" exist. We just refuse to ignore everything we learned about science and the history of the planet in school just so we can fabricate a non-existent global catastrophe.

You don't get the Newsbusters

You don't get the Newsbusters newsletter, huh? AGW is a communist plot. Ask anyone around here and they'll agree.

If the Swindle is a &quot;jok

If the Swindle is a "joke", Algore’s film is the "Divine Comedy".

Errors?

Hello. Some of you might remember me as the pro-AGW guy who posted some time back.

I have not seen Al Gore's movie. But I have seen the "Global Warming Swindle Movie".

I don't know if there's a double standard. However, I do want to raise the following point.

Let's look at the movie on it's own. Do you agree, in principle, that errors pointed out (assuming for the moment that they are correctly claiming errors) should be corrected? Would you call that "censorship"? Or an abrogation of free speech?

Now, I repeat, practically, what happens to this "global warming swindle" movie, the same standard should be applied to Al Gore's movie. But, do you agree that, the principled position on this should be that the errors are corrected?

My own view is that two wrongs don't make a right. We should fight errors wherever they are made, whoever makes them.

If anybody wants to discuss specific claims that the scientists protesting made, I'll be happy to go into it. Here's the text of the letter, in case you haven't read it.

Note: As my posts tended to become longer and numerous as time went on, I promised myself that I would post at most 3 times on a particular topic.

Of course belag/throatpecker.

Of course belag/throatpecker. We know you will correct your errors. They have been pointed out many times.

Sorry I forgot. You "know" the only correct response. Everything else is wrong. No one can speak but approved AGW accolytes.

I tell you what. I'll write to them to suggest any "error" be corrected. Provided they are errors. As soon as you tell your frends that there is no concensus. And as soon as you tell your friends theat there are different versions of the history of climate and that there is data (I know it doesn't exist with out theory) that contradicts their history of climate.

38 that's quite a concensus, you have there.

Have a nice day.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Provided they are errors.

Provided they are errors.

You think volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activity?

You think that using outdated satelite data isn't an error?

Sad, really danbo. You do have to admit that fooling the people here on NB into thinking you actually know what you're talking about when it comes to science is a pretty nifty accomplishment for you. Between you and me, you can't really respect them that much, can you? Nevermind, don't answer.

Now don't you have some theory about Venus you're working on?

Why don't you compare the &qu

Why don't you compare the "Swindle" movie with some opinions posted here (all 147 articles of them), then ask about a discussion. I agree two wrongs do not make a right, but AlBores' piece is pure propaganda for nothing more than to line his pockets with $$$. 

No need to waste one of your three responses on me, I do not debate GW because it's a waste of time to debate what NO ONE knows about. 

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful..."

Errors

I did not talk about consensus. I am not arguing either for or against the statement of the 38 scientists. I was only asking about the principled position on this thing.

I may mention first that nobody has tried to address my question about
what the principled stand here should be. Ok, make up your own mind.

I do not say that Al Gore is right. In fact, since I haven't even seen his movie I am in no position to know. And as I mentioned earlier, I am not interested in Al Gore but the facts. Al Gore is a politician who made a movie about global warming. If I want to learn about scientific theories I don't go to a politician. I read it from the primary sources. So, if it turns out Al Gore was lying from beginning to end, it wouldn't make a difference. It's just a "straw man" argument.

So I make the point again. I am talking about the Global Warming Swindle movie now. I am not talking about Al Gore's movie. Do you think the "errors" (or alleged errors) are correct or not? As I mentioned, if anyone has a specific comment about the truth of the allegations, I'm willing to discuss it. If they are true, is it "censorship" or "undemocratic" to ask them to be corrected? Do you believe Al Gore's "lies" should be countered by more lies (again, assuming the allegations are correct)?

As a final footnote, I am not throatpecker, whoever that is.

As usual, belag, your stand is not the principled one.

Ok, belag..."principles."  Your stand is NOT the principled one.  To claim to have no interest in Gore's movie is both morally and logically wrong.  

It doesn't matter that Gore is not a scientist for the following reasons:   First, his movie has been, is, and will be seen many times more often than
"Swindle."  Second, it has been proven to contain substantial errors and misrepresentations.  Third, it is being deliberately used to stampede politicans, the media, educators and the general public into precipitous action.  For those reasons, you should be demanding that Gore's movie be at the head of the list for corrective attention.

To take any other view is a convenience and would mark you as unprincipled.

Al Gore vs Swindle

I agree with your point. Al Gore's movie is more influential than the "Swindle" movie. And if it contains massive errors they should be corrected first.

Since I haven't seen Al Gore's movie, I will make good faith efforts to see it and look at the criticisms for and against it.

However I'm breaking my promise to myself by posting more than 3 times to reply to some other people, since this is not how I visualized it would happen (my simplistic visualization was a point, rebuttal and conclusion).

Mr Belag, sir, No, sir, the

Mr Belag, sir,

No, sir, the information in "Swindle" is factually correct, and is conservative in all of their reporting of information like CO2 from naturals sources, historical temperatures, and everything else.

The global temperature information reported in Swindle is actually the information from IPCC in 1996 - all data were thoroughly reviewed at the time. The 2006 IPCC report was re written to fulfil a political agenda of the UN. The idea has backfired, and they will be forced to retract (this process has started). The Gore movie is esentially a screenplay of the 2006 IPCC report.

The climate change scenario as presented today through Gore and others is hogwash, pure and simple, and it is not something that has not been done before, though not on this scale. Unfortunately the public cannot, by and large, understand the inaccuracy of the scientific basis behind this farce, and are left to trust the authority of a number of people who believe it - or want them to believe it.

The Gore scenario is nonsense, and it leaves devastating economic exposure to the economy possible. I keep hoping that the tide turns before economic ruin is irreversible, for all practical purposes. It wouldn't take as long to ruin the economy as rebuild it - in fact, rebuilding might be impossible.

By the way "Throatpecker" refers to a frequent guest of these pages, who is incapable of admitting the fallacy of the doomsday scenario, and who, I hope, is not representative of the US voter

Specific claim

Since this post addresses a specific claim of the allegations, I'll be happy to go into more detail.

I assume you are talking about the first allegation of the letter.

The
"Swindle" movie credited the graph to "IPCC". It did not give a year,
so the letter assumes that it was 1990, since the graph agrees closest
with that graph. You arguments seems to be: in 1990 (the first
assessment report of IPCC) they had some data. In 2006 they had
different data. And you claim that the 2006 version was because of
political agenda of the UN.

Firstly, the letter alleges that the graph was only for before 1975. So it doesn't give the data for the last decades of the 20th century.

Now, if you look at the text of the allegation, it doesn't say
UN. It says United States National Academies report of 2006. That
report concluded: "none of the large-scale surface temperature reconstructions show
medieval temperatures as warm as the last few decades of the 20th
century." You can cross check this if you want.

Now,
if you are showing a film in 2007, why would you use 1990 data? Also,
since the data (being before 1975) could not show the temperatures in
the recent years? Why not use the latest data? If you don't trust the
UN, use some other data. But if you're citing IPCC, then you have to
assume that for the moment. You can't have it both ways.

I am suspending comments about Al Gore's movie, since I
haven't seen it. As I said earlier, I'll make good faith efforts to see it and respond.

(rolls up sleeves, adjusts

(rolls up sleeves, adjusts glasses, ..., I have dreaded work since the day I was born, I think)

On the average of once every three weeks, I would say, I am confronted by a student who seeks to enjoin "The Perfesser" in debate, in a false sense of security in the belief the Perfesser will find contradiction in his own words, thus demonstrating to the Class that their money has unfortunately been wasted in the particular educational enterprise.

The technique hasn't worked yet, but I'm getting old, and maybe one day I will be forced to retire because of senility.

The temperature data reported in IPCC 2006 for the latter decades of 20th century, were, by admission, not corrected for known periodic disturbances such as El Nino, and as far as I am aware, there are are no peer reviewed data for the period.

The attribution to the Academies is somewhat mysterious. From whence did this attribution arise? Who solicited the study? In general, work from the Academies is contracted from US government and other agencies, and the review process is limited to those selected by the Academies, and correction or ammendment by any others is prohibited.

Individual members of the Academies may publish anything they wish, or course, in their Proceedings, without peer review.

So. Until accepted global temperature data from the ultimate decades of the 20th century are available, it may have been prudent of the Swindle show not to have considered them, and I think we may have a while to wait for these data.

There has been contention of the validity of the Midieval temperature data for a long time, and in particular the possible origin of similar epicyclic climatic changes. I don't know if there is a single authoritative source any more for the validity of any of these, although the possible data are consistent with historical records of those societies of Northern mid lattitudes. Generalizing this to global climatic change is done without certainty.

Please go watch the Gore movie, and report back. I haven't seen it either, only a dissection of it. I don't know if this approach is better or not, as it leaves out emotional appeal for portrayed defenseless, and victimized, species such as the Polar Bear, and this content may or may not add to the entertainment value of the movie. I most certainly will not question the validity of the technique, nor question the right of an artist to employ any technique of their choice

Errors and attributions

I do agree with some of the things you're saying. Here's my reply.

I assume you've watched the "swindle" movie and the text of the allegations. I've provided the link if you need to look at them.

In this post, I'm trying to see whether the specific allegation which has been made is true or not.

The
allegation is as follows. The "swindle" movie claimed that temperatures
have been higher in the medieval period than the recent past.

The
allegation says that first of all, it doesn't show the data after 1975.
I don't know if you agree. But if it's true (you can comment whether
you think it's true or not), it undermines the comparison, because the
point made in the IPCC report (and elsewhere) is precisely that the
late part of 20th century and early 21'st century are periods of
unusually high temperatures.

Second, there's such a lot of
information and disinformation being floated around (on both sides of
the issue), that I want to be clear on what the source of the
statements is. We can argue on whether this source or that source is
unreliable for this or that reason. So, if you can cite the source
which says that the IPCC temperature data is not adjusted for natural
phenomena like El Nino, I'll be happy to respond.

A related issue
is the independence of the Academy source. This sort of thing is very
important. First of all, I may mention that the IPCC reports are not
only supported by the National Academy of Sciences in the US, but by
most of the scientific organizations in the world, be it the Royal
Society of England or organizations in Australia, Japan, the Third
World, Canada.

What sort of data would you consider
"independent"? This seems to me to be the core question. And, finally,
this is a question to yourself. Did you raise these sort of questions
about the graph in the "swindle" movie?

I have seen normalized data

I have seen normalized data, through 2005, once corrected for peiodicity of climate, there is modest temp rise through 2005, not considered extraordinary.

Correcting these for urban effects on temperature [contention] reduces it further.

Satellite data correspond pretty well with urban temperature corrected data. Slight statistical increase (no decrease) all years, 1980-2005. Correcting those for drift of satellite relative to ground measumements [contention] wipes any statistical increase out.

The stuff is unpublished. Ask NASA/Goddard, maybe they will share unreviewed stuff with you. It will be a long time before things that are so hotly contested become mainstream.

I don't know how the IPCC stuff became "mainstream" so quickly. A lot of people just jumped too quickly, I think. I won't disparage the Academies work or authenticity or credentials or anything else. I just think they jumped to conclusion and did not consider all the possible effects that would make any of their main conclusions less remarkable.

From my own standpoint, I guess seeing historical evaluations of climate that I have seen time and time again since college, grad school, post grad, - suddenly rewritten, then I do get a bad feeling. Why were pleople wrong for so long? Were they that dumb back then? I guess familiarity with things makes them seem more valid.

But I am old, and I have seen a lot of wrong science, year after year after year, and maybe skeptcism is too deeply ingrained in my pshyche now to accept things without a lot of evaluation and thought, and I cannot go along with the crowd very easily on a lot things that involve scientific debate, and I have not once been wrong, so maybe overconfidence in myself is unwarranted.

At rock bottom, the foundation of my confidence about the global warming thing anyway, is that it is impossible to increase carbon dioxide content in atmosphere above 1000 ppm, and even if it got there, there would not be serious consequence.

Once one has convinced themselves of a thing, because one has confidence in their abilities to arrive at the conclusion, there will be very little that influences doubt. Maybe I'm the one too rigid in my thinking - but one has to start with something

and did not consider all the

and did not consider all the possible effects that would make any of their main conclusions less remarkable

From everything I've read, that sounds right.  The IPCC report is not part of some larger conspiracy but is the end result of the efforts of well intentioned people.  Plus don't forget that the summary/conclusions of the report, the part that was widely publicized, was not written by scientists. 

"No, sir, the information in

"No, sir, the information in "Swindle" is factually correct, and is conservative in all of their reporting of information like CO2 from naturals sources, historical temperatures, and everything else."

Your contention is that volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activity? You must then believe the CO2 increase is natural?

Something smells indeed. Your scientific credentials are beginning to create quite a stink. Especially if you think this "documentary" is accurate.

Come on over to the other s

Come on over to the other side. Come on, the weather's fine !

Give in to the nagging doubts about the validity of the Al Gore, green groups,..., stuff.

Soon, you'll be thinking, the climate will be all right, and post-WW2 capitalism did bring America a lot of good things, and even poor people can have cars and refrigerators and clean water, and lots more ...I guess we'll be a lot better off if we don't try to fix the wrong things.

Among the many good things

Among the many good things brought by post-WW2 capitalism is a tremendous and continuing reduction in pollution in America. Go to your library and find some old photographs of Los Angeles, New York, or any other large or even medium-sized city, and compare with current photographs. Certainly there is smog in the air today, but it's vastly reduced from 25 or 50 or 100 years ago, while the populations have continually gone up and up.

As you say, even poor people have CLEAN WATER in the US. There is more, not less, forested land in the US than there was 75 years ago, and lakes and rivers are cleaner today than they were 75 years ago.

Lee T.

U.S. Navy (ret.) / Vancouver, Washington

The history of the race, and each individual's experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.-- Mark Twain

Yes, indeed, I do believe t

Yes, indeed, I do believe that the increase in CO2 is primarily natural, and that it is a result, not a cause of the climate warming, as it has been shown in the past that CO2 increased as much as 200 years after a warming trend started.

I will believe that there is truly an imminent environmental crisis when I see Algore reduce his energy usage (not carbon footprint with phony "carbon credits") to within 20% of the average American's energy usage.

Lee T.

U.S. Navy (ret.) / Vancouver, Washington

The history of the race, and each individual's experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.-- Mark Twain

There is no research that bac

There is no research that backs up your belief that the CO2 rise is natural. First, burning fossil fuels creates CO2, which has to go somewhere. All you have to is add up the total FF burned and you can get a very good idea of how much CO2 has been added to the system.

You left that open ended. How

You left that open ended. How much FF CO2 has the system absorbed and/or neutralized?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Belag-- I am not sure if this helps but--

Belag-- I am not sure if this helps but--I am a reformed GW person. I spent a great deal of time studying both sides of the issue. I really do not want to wade through it all again. I just want to address the issues that NB addresses and those deal with honesty in reporting and information relevant to the health of America and planet earth.

The ploy being used now (IMO), by the pro GW side is to find an inaccuracy (or two or three if possible), and use it as a base challenge to win their point. A not unusual tactic to help win a debate. I suggest, respectfully that you need to reasearch as much as you can to decide for yourselfwhere the truth lies (or being alliterative , where the lies lie.) After coming to my own conclusion--(There is definitely GW, it is minimally affected by man.), I now only browse the "new" news. I did however have a friend post me the link below to show the growing, knowledgable list of antis. I confess, it makes me feel better about my own conclusions.

http://www.sitewave.net/pproject/listbystate.htmWhere ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?

Sir Walter Scott

Oh, boy, if you can't tell th

Oh, boy, if you can't tell that the Oregon Petition is meaningless (I mean Gerri Hollowell di sign it, so I guess it feels good to have Ginger Spice in the camp) then you don't have much chance of being able to wade through the complexities of CO2 forcing and TSI graphs.

What would Richard F Worley, DDS know about the climate?

throatwobbler, I see that &qu

throatwobbler, I see that "Phyllis Hollowell" signed this petition.  I can't seem to find Gerri.  Can you please specify under which state we would find a "Gerri Hollowell"?

Is it not so that some scient

Is it not so that some scientists, respected scientists I might add, demanded the IPCC's flawed report be amended or their names be removed from it as portions of it are factually incorrect, in the opinions of those scientists?

Since the IPCC rejected this request, and Gore's propaganda movie has not been amended, I see no reason why the "Swindle" producers cannot distribute their works as they wish.  Viewers will judge them by their work.

Tit for tat?

There are a few issues here.

First, this is just my belief and you can disagree. If you are fighting for the truth, you don't rely upon lies. Fighting lies with lies is just as bad. Fighting lies with truth is the honourable thing. (Again, assuming the allegations are correct)

Next, what's the extent of the inaccuracies? I haven't seen Al Gore's film, so I can't comment. But the letter alleges that once you correct all the mistakes in the "swindle" film, the film doesn't have anything. It's not just one or two small mistakes that the producer's conceded.That's much more serious. Nobody claims that the IPCC report is worthless and bare once you correct the (alleged) inaccuracies. (I am not taking a position either way, are those allegations correct or not).

some scientists ... demanded

some scientists ... demanded the IPCC's flawed report be amended or their names be removed from it ...

Really.  Funny how we haven't heard too much about that in the msm.

I wonder if Laurie and Sheryl could find room for those scientists on their Magical Mystery Global Warming Tour bus.

Sorry, darlin', tickets on

Sorry, darlin', tickets on that bus are all sold out

I'm surprised there wasn't an empty seat, thinking Laurie would have to send Sheryl and her gitar back home on a Greyhound, after Sheryl stumbled on her face on her way out of the outhouse

Nope. The gaffe only enhanced Sheryl's image as a thoughtful and insightful critic of Western civilization, instilled with unique charm and intuitive understanding of the perils that have befallen America since Capitalism corroded human ability to live as one with Nature.

If L Bush had made the remark, echoes of the howling laughter would be heard until the year 2119