If you run a policy group in Washington, your chances of getting on network television are slim if you happen to advocate for a cause not favored by liberals. Your chances are even worse that anything you say won't be slapped with a "conservative" label to warn viewers of your perspective.
That's a good thing. Most groups can be placed somewhere on the political spectrum and that placement should be disclosed to the news consumer. The unfortunate thing, however, is that if you're a liberal group, your affinities often are not disclosed.
Such was the case with this MSNBC.com article on the subject of guns which features a quote from one Joseph Vince who happens to be a gun control advocate. This information is not disclosed to the audience. Instead, we get this:
In the photos Cho sent to NBC, he showed some of his ammunition — hollow-point rounds, purchased, officials say, in the weeks before the shootings. Law enforcement officials say hollow-points are generally considered more lethal.
Joseph Vince, a retired ATF agent, agrees."It's not something that you would need for home protection, because what you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat," Vince says. "The idea of killing is what this ammunition portrays to me."
However, as St Wendeler at Another Rovian Conspiracy points out, Vince is not just your run-of-the-mill former ATF official:
MSNBC features analysis from a "retired ATF agent" who also happens to be: 1) Member of an organization that is apparently gun control front; 2) in the employ of Handgun Control Inc, the premier handgun control lobbying group in the country; and 3) supports legal actions against firearm dealers.
And they fail to mention this affiliation at all in their story. Surely they knew Mr. Vince's bio when they sought him out for comment.It's almost as if MSNBC has some sort of agenda to push or something and doesn't want it audience to be informed.
Side note: Vince's remark is incredibly stupid on its own. He apparently thinks that metal bullets should not be about "the idea of killing." Ridiculous.
Hat tip: Instapundit.
—Matthew Sheffield is the creator and editor of NewsBusters.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
John Vince is not only a left
April 24, 2007 - 00:43 ET by TEJohn Vince is not only a leftist; he's a blithering idiot and fool who knows nothing about firearms or ammunition. Vince claims that hollow point rounds are "not something that you would need for home protection, because what you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat." Hollow point rounds are "not something that you would need for home protection"? What would he suggest? Dialogue with the invader? Also, demonstrating his complete ignorance of ammunition, Vince is clearly unaware that hollow point rounds happen to be the safest ammunition for firing inside a home or other close quarters given that the hollow point round is less likely to penetrate through the home invader and then pass through walls and kill or injure innocent people behind the walls. "What you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat"? What the hell does the fool think a round from a firearm does when it strikes the intended target, i.e., the home invader?
Apparently "not someth
April 24, 2007 - 06:12 ET by motherbeltApparently "not something that you would need for home protection, because what you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat" means way too powerful to use on a home invader. What's up with that? Levels of bad guys and different ammo for each? I guess you are supposed to just wound him, not kill him. Reminds me of the idiots that say about a cop "Why didn't he just shoot the gun out of his hand?" as if every cop is a super marksman. I don't know a lot about guns, but I do know in order to stop someone, you don't go for the leg or whatever, you aim for center-mass.
Hollow point rounds are "
April 24, 2007 - 07:59 ET by ghotifunHollow point rounds are "not something that you would need for home protection"?
Hollow point rounds are in my wife's .38 because they stop an intruder. I want my wife to be able to protect herself and my kids, not play patty-cake with a home invader.
This guy is an idiot!
Just about EVERYONE prefers
April 24, 2007 - 00:47 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveJust about EVERYONE prefers hollow points in their
home-defense or concealed carry handgun...it's the best way to
eliminate a threat with the fewest pulls of the trigger. And the smallest chance of over-penetration.
It's getting really old hearing these anti-gunners trying to construe anything...anything at all as a reason to put more restrictions on guns.
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then toss it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you asked for in the first place!" --Bill McNeal, NewsRadio episode 3.17
Can not-questioning blatant
April 24, 2007 - 07:00 ET by sarcasmoCan not-questioning blatant stupidity be a form of bias? In this case, the overpenetration issue you mentioned at least merits the presentation of a contrary point of view (if not an outright correction) which should be easily available from just about any expert. Anyone even halfway-familiar with what different types of bullets do is likely to disagree with this guy, but absent a correction out of MSNBC, the physics-challenged might actually go out and buy the wrong kind of ammunition, kill an innocent neighbor due to overpenetration, and then (please, God...) sue MSNBC instead of the gun/ammo maker for once! Ok, I can dream...
JMR
Here's a good rule: If there
April 24, 2007 - 05:51 ET by ArchConservativeHere's a good rule: If there is no upfront identification of a political, polorizing, and/or dangerous individual and/or the article is harmful to their cause, he or she is a liberal or democrat.
Live it, learn it..............................hate it.
"Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
- President George W Bush
We here at NB know that, the
April 24, 2007 - 12:38 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveWe here at NB know that, the problem is the large portion of the population that don't actively think about what's being presented to them in the news or they gloss over things because they seem insignificant. To these types of people an expert is an expert to them, and experts can't be biased.
For example, my wife is usually very astute in determining the bogus items in a news report. However, with the "Plamegate" story she didn't know any of the background info and she didn't pay attention to the reporting on it. When Libby was found guilty she wondered why I was so upset at something that "didn't seem like that big of a deal." I explained everything about the issue and the people involved. After about an hour bringing her up to speed she became more upset about the conviction than I was.
If I hadn't taken the time to lay out all the info for my wife to draw her own conclusions, she would have continued to think that "Plamegate" wasn't that big of a deal...I fear too many Americans regularly exhibit apathy for many very serious issues.
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then toss it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you asked for in the first place!" --Bill McNeal, NewsRadio episode 3.17
Is it MSNBC or CNN?
April 24, 2007 - 08:10 ET by CTWhich is it MSNBC or CNN? Which has the most pathetically Leftwing Liberal Lunatic anti-American driven agenda load of lies on the air today?
Carbon Credits Smoke'em if you got'em!
CNN ... but Keith Blabberman
April 24, 2007 - 08:34 ET by josephsamuelsonCNN ... but Keith Blabberman makes BSNBC a strong competitor.
Gun-control goes back to its
April 24, 2007 - 08:29 ET by josephsamuelsonGun-control goes back to its father - Adolf Hitler. That's how he solidified his power, that's how he disarmed his enemies and lawful German citizens, and that's how thugs were able to go throughout Berlin and kill, arrest, and bully whoever they wanted.
If you want gun-control then you want fascism, totalitarianism, and dictatorship.
No matter what stupid (or even halfway reasonable) law you put on the books CRIMINALS WILL ALWAYS OBTAIN WEAPONS. For that reason gun laws should always seek to keep and to put firearms in the hands of lawful citizens.
All it would have taken to end or prevent the Virginia Tech massacre was 1 lawful citizen with a weapon ... and there were more than 20,000 on campus ... but gun-control law made sure they were unarmed.
Joseph Vince makes hollow points
April 24, 2007 - 09:10 ET by m1xramI think what the idiot was trying to say is to use full metal jacket or solid lead? That's just a guess because they would do less damage to an individual, like the maniac invading your home.
On the other hand, they tend not to stop so you have to be real careful of what's behind the target. For instance, if you neighbors house was behind the murderous intruder you probably shouldn't shoot at him from your current position.
OR you could stick with the hollow points, do maximum damage to the intended target, with minimal likelihood of other undesirable casualties.
WARNING - PUN AHEAD: I think Joseph Vince makes hollow points. Can you feel the groan?
m1xram
ammo
April 24, 2007 - 11:21 ET by tejanodiabloi live out in the country so i like .30 cal carbine AP .. shoots thru walls at any would be burglers .. then i don't have to follow blood trails as far .. big clips, BIG clips ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
About 17 years ago a girl I w
April 24, 2007 - 12:55 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveAbout 17 years ago a girl I went to school with had a pretty bad experience with a jacketed 9mm round. Her boyfriend was monkeying around with a friend and his handgun. The gun went off, the bullet ricocheted off the floor, entered my friend's abdomen through her back, went through her right lung, exited just below her collar bone, bounced off of her chin, went through two walls (drywall) and finally came to rest inside a teddy bear in her child's crib. Fortunately my friend wasn't killed and nobody else was hurt. This was a freak experience as not all jacketed rounds will behave in similar fashion, but it shows the potential over-penetration of using such rounds. Now, if the gun had hollow points in it, the shot may not have hit my friend because the round would have expanded when it initially hit the floor.
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then toss it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you asked for in the first place!" --Bill McNeal, NewsRadio episode 3.17
rick o'shay
April 24, 2007 - 13:24 ET by tejanodiabloi've seen hp's ricoche off a gravel road, concrete, and water .. and after they made their secoundary impact, they not only still had a lot of kinetic energy but were also a 'larger calibre' .. as for the two idiots 'monkeying around' with the pistole, i bet the gun was "UNLOADED" ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
Of course it was "unload
April 24, 2007 - 15:00 ET by Mean Gene Dr. LoveOf course it was "unloaded"! Are you kidding? That's what everyone tells the cops. I still have yet to figure out how an "unloaded" gun can shoot a bullet.
Well, if the HP did ricochet, it probably would've killed her, she was/is? pretty petite. Which continues to prove the point that HPs stop targets effectively.
Also goes to show that idiots that don't live by the "Four Rules" are asking for trouble.
"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, and then toss it in the face of the person who gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you asked for in the first place!" --Bill McNeal, NewsRadio episode 3.17
Does ANY handgun course tea
April 24, 2007 - 14:45 ET by MightyMouthDoes ANY handgun course teach gun owners to shoot to wound? In my conceled carry state you are taught to shoot center mass. Doesn't it follow that you would want the bullet to actually stay in the center of mass? In fact maybe CHL owners should be required to load hollow points. Those metal ones are dangerous!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...