How many Americans can name one American hero from the war on terror?
During WWII and for years thereafter, I daresay virtually every American from school-age up knew of Audie Murphy and other war heroes. But while the MSM has spent incalculable resources informing Americans and the world about Abu Ghraib and Haditha, how often has the MSM told us about the new generation of heroes among our people serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere?
I'd invite people to view Heroes in the War on Terror, assembled by the Defense Department, that tells the stories of a number of our heroes. Take that of SGT Micheaux M. Sanders [pictured here] of Goldsboro, NC:
Sanders deployed to Iraq in 2003 in the early stages of the conflict--but it was not until April 4, 2004, that he faced his greatest challenge on the battlefield. A platoon of 20 men was trapped deep within Sadr City, which was in the midst of an uprising. Sgt. Sanders’s tank crew and two others from his unit were called to aid the rescue. The first two attempts failed, and during the second, Sgt. Sanders took a bullet through his left shoulder. Sanders waved the medics away, and instead hopped on another tank for a third rescue attempt, one which pushed through numerous firefights and impromptu roadblocks, such as burning tires and washing machines, to reach the stranded men. Sanders told the Chicago Tribune later, “All I needed was a Band-Aid.” Because Sanders’s unit had previously been scheduled for transport, the tanks were carrying a minimum load of ammunition. At one point Sanders ran out of ammo and resorted to throwing rocks and anything else he could find at the enemy. Sanders was awarded the Silver Star in October 2004.
How much MSM coverage of SGT Sanders or the other heroes depicted on the site have you seen? When will the MSM provide some balance to its coverage -- or will the focus remain those relatively very rare instances in which our troops break the rules?
UPDATE: Apparently the American media aren't the only ones averse to airing stories about heroes. Not long ago, the BBC deep-sixed a documentary about a British Iraq war hero because it was "too positive" and might offend viewers opposed to the war. H/t reader CS.
Mark was in Iraq in November. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Comments Policy
Mark, it wouldn't fit the age
April 19, 2007 - 10:04 ET by FastEdMark, it wouldn't fit the agenda - to admit there are heros would mean there are some good thing happening. Because you were there and saw these folks "up close and personal", ou can probably count the other "journalists" on one hand who saw the same.
Everyone's impression of Iraq is that there is NOTHING going right, thanks to the mis- and unreporting from the msm (Lsm).
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Thank you, Mark. I agree with
April 19, 2007 - 10:07 ET by KC MulvilleThank you, Mark. I agree with this entirely.
Honor is inherently entertaining, informative, and compelling. You know how Law & Order claims that their stories are ripped from today's headlines? All you have to do is read a few of these stories and film them as is. I mean, these scripts are already written! It'll be far more powerful drama than any of the crap they have on TV today.
Jessica Lynch
April 19, 2007 - 10:08 ET by E4PukeI left in February of 04 and the only person I ever saw on the news with any citations of heroism was Jessica Lynch. They briefly mentioned the private that actually was there doing most of the stuff attributed to her but it mainly focused on her. Any thing that doesnt fit the PC template or the I hate the US military template just doesnt seem to penetrate the blinders the mainstream media networks have.
E4 - not only did they not ma
April 19, 2007 - 10:24 ET by Dee BunkE4 - not only did they not make heroes out of the Jessica Lynch rescuers, but they later went and tried to make it seem like it wasn't a heroic rescue just because the doctors were nice to her. It was so disgraceful. The way all the liberals were so quick to jump on and be critical was disgusting. She was a prisoner of war in a war zone. Period. If it was so easy why didn't they do it?
Thank you for your service. You are all heroes
Mark thanks for the reminder!
April 19, 2007 - 10:19 ET by misterbillAll us kids in WW2 knew about Audie Murphy. We loved him, we talked about him, we could not wait to see the movie about him.
I have seen little about any of the heroes of Iraq. A band of parents in Littleton tried to block the erection of a statue to honor him. They felt that their children would be harmed to see a statue of a fallen warrior with a weapon in his hands. Happily, the city of Littleton, CO has decide to erect the tribute.
At least the public still sup
April 19, 2007 - 10:32 ET by ahusserAt least the public still supports the military. However the American public can be brainwashed and fickle and can change on a dime. Still waiting my welcome home from Vietnam. Other than the popular MSM conception in that war that we were all dope smoking, violent, traumatized and prone to criminality we didn't get much mention.
assuming you came home before
April 19, 2007 - 10:53 ET by pmohbuckassuming you came home before 1975, i would have only been as old as nine, but for what it's worth: i'll welcome you home, by saying "thanks" for honorably stepping to the plate when your country asked you to ... for putting yourself in harms way in place of the rest of us, who didn't serve ... for being one of our country's countless, nameless heroes who served with distinction but came home to a thankless, unappreciating society ... all our vets should be honored and all of our vets should be proud for the job they've done.
Thank You. I know sometimes i
April 19, 2007 - 11:03 ET by ahusserThank You. I know sometimes it sounds like sourgrapes but the anti-war bs during that time extended to hatred of soldiers I don't want that to happen again. BTW RVN 70-71
Thanks to you, and a belated
April 19, 2007 - 12:15 ET by MPayneThanks to you, and a belated "Welcome Home" to you and all Vietnam Vets.
You have a bonfide right to be a sour about how the Vietnam Vets were treated and how they are still being portrayed in movies and whatnot. It seems like all vets (other than Forrest Gump) are portrayed as crazed, non productive members of our society. Such BS cannot be allowed to stand.
" Courage - a perfect sensibility of the measure of danger, and a mental willingness to endure it. " - William T. Sherman
Dittoes to that. Thanks! Ig
April 20, 2007 - 08:41 ET by pbanks7Dittoes to that. Thanks!
Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.
Ahusser, Thank You for your s
April 19, 2007 - 10:59 ET by ts88Ahusser, Thank You for your service to our country. It's People like you that make the USA the best and only place that I will ever want to call home.
Welcome Home, and God bless all of the People in our Military. Pat
I liked this the best
April 19, 2007 - 12:28 ET by E4PukeJust to let you know I didnt get any welcome home either. Someone bought me a beer once in a bar thats about it. I think the thing i enjoyed the most was watching the news every day and getting told i was a failure and that i was doing it all for nothing. That really warmed my heart let me tell you.
It is disgraceful the way the
April 19, 2007 - 10:51 ET by Iron LadyIt is disgraceful the way the MSM has neglected stories about American Heroes, while hyping over and over about Abu Graib, which from what I can tell, amounted to very little indeed. The way they casually repeat over and over - in case the lefties and other anti-Americans didn't catch it - that because of AG, we have shown ourselves to be a nation of torturers. Every bad thing that is done by another country is blamed on us because we are a "nation of torturers". Heck, they blame the deaths in Iraq on the US, even though as many or more were killed routinely under Saddam and often by the same people doing the killing here. Of course, the MSM didn't report those deaths so they didn't matter, right?
I think this template means they just "can't:" show American heroes. How could both (heroes and torturers) be true, right?
Has anyone noticed that several TV shows have had Iraq war veterans as characters? I have been keeping track lately (at least of the shows I watch) and every single one has portrayed the vet as being angry, disillusioned, mentally stressed, etc. Not one has shown a vet as being a normal, every day person who is not murdering someone, in a mental hospital (or needing to be in one) or jobless/homeless. There have been a couple of shows where someone murdered someone else to get back at them for some attrocity soldiers committed in Iraq. Either murdering helpless civilians or mistreating each other or whatever. The vets were the killers, those who committed the attrocities, or both. (It's right up there with religious leaders being shown as hypocrits, killers or causes of the killing.)
Law and Order (in all its versions) has been particularly bad lately. I think every one of them has had such an episode, but they aren't the only ones.
They are teaching our children to view American soldiers as murderers and rapists ("in the manner of Genghis Kahn")- just as they tried with Vietnam veterans. That, in my mind, is just as despicable as ignoring the heroes.
Good News About Iraq
April 19, 2007 - 10:56 ET by OldSailor88Not only will you not hear about the heroes, you won't hear about good news at all. Last year, the press corps in Bagdad was loaded up in Military Transports and taken about the country to show them the immense amount of reconstruction work that has been completed. It was scheduled to be a 4 day trip. After two days the press corps requested to return to Bagdad. Why? There was "no news" to be reported from where they were. The only news that they wanted was the latest in carnage. What a lot of Americans don't know, because they get all their news from the MSM, is that nearly 75% of Iraq is secure, happy, and thriving. In fact, Turkey is mad at us because all of the Kurds are returning to Northern Iraq because they are safer there. Turkey is losing a lot of their "menial laborers" who used to be refugees. Refugees no longer, they have returned home and are doing so well, that the Kurdish provinces in Iraq used some of their security forces to support the recent surge. What? You heard me. They are so secure that they can afford to send away some of their own security force. These are the same Kurds who were gassed by Saddam Hussein.
I'm rambling now because this is a sore spot with Military people, but I think you get my point. Preaching to the choir on this website doesn't do much good except to let me lower my blood pressure, but hopefully some of the good word will spread amongst you.
The wimpocrats and runocrats
April 19, 2007 - 11:14 ET by ahusserThe wimpocrats and runocrats seem to always be on the side of our enemies they will attempt to do the foul deed and run away again leaving those we befriended and who trusted in us to be killed or imprisoned. They will then again do a Pontius Pilate and wash their hands of the matter like they weren't responsible. Anyone who ally's themselves to us and trusts us takes their lives in their hands. They (the dem/leftists) have no shame or any sense honor or responsibility.
MSM Pretends Our Military Is The Problem
April 19, 2007 - 11:12 ET by emjem24The MSM fails to virtually report ANYTHING that has successfully been accomplished in Iraq or even Afghanistan for that matter. Why? Perhaps they've made the editorial decision that America is not interested in the good that's going on, only the bad.
Yes, the MSM not only does a disservice to the Military but America. However, America is as much to blame for why the MSM gets away with this. Americans have failed to hold the MSM accountable for the anti-American and anti-military bias.
No, no, America is much more concerned with whether Sanjaya will be voted off American Idol, whether or not the 50-60% of them will continue to get their government hand-out (be it social security, medicare/medicaid, welfare, or even universal healthcare), ignore mass streams of unfettered imigration, and contribute to the overall, permissive character of our society.
Rather than ignore our military, I wish people would see our fight against terrorism through. Yes, there's death, corruption, and collusion, but there's also hope, bravery, and fortitude, something I think that America has lost itself.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
So the MSM isn't covering any
April 19, 2007 - 11:17 ET bySo the MSM isn't covering any good news from Iraq. Is there any publication covering the good news? Is there actually any good news?
This has been one of the deadliest months in the war. What exactly is the good news?
Do you really think that in a
April 19, 2007 - 11:29 ET by Iron LadyDo you really think that in a country the size of Iraq nothing good has been going on? The US has had a horrific week when we consider VT, but that doesn't mean many good things haven't also happened this week. If none of the good things were reported because the MSM only wants to report the bad and sensationally bad news, everyone would view the US differently than it really is.
Oh, that's right -that is what happens. That is why many foreigners come here believing that all Americans are routinely involved in drugs and murder and other violence, when reality is that whole towns exist with no murders at all for years, even decades. They think all Americans believe what the MSM does. Thus, they were shocked when Bush was re-elected, when they believed everyone hated him like the lefties and MSM do.
BTW - some good news from Iraq? Another province was turned over to Iraqi control a couple of days ago. Maliki stated that they are on track to having most of the provinces turned over by the end of the year.
Another province was turned o
April 19, 2007 - 11:37 ET byAnother province was turned over to Iraqi control bringing the combined totatl to FOUR. At one a year we should be out of there in another 12 years. Sweet.
Most of the provinces turned over by the end of the year.
1. I'll believe it when i see it.
2. Most provinces don't have any violence so who cares.
Even then, you'd deny it, hater
April 19, 2007 - 12:56 ET by RJEven then, you'd deny it, hater. You and the entire left spectrum, including the media, are invested in the defeat of the U.S. in Iraq.
"so who cares" perfectly defines your position. You know that if things turn out well, all your anti-American ranting and raving will doom your significance for years to come. You whine about the greater good, but it's all about politics and power to you.
"2. Most provinces don't
April 20, 2007 - 12:39 ET by JoeBob"2. Most provinces don't have any violence so who cares."
Isn't this great news? But who cares, right? Your thought processes have become so vested in the hopes of failure for policies of a leader whom you abhor that you show callous contempt for events that should have every American cheering. And yet you ooze your self-righteous indignation when some judge your bile as "treasonous". Bah! You sicken me.
Without recognizing the ordinances of Heaven, it is impossible to be a superior man. - Confucious
I Wouldn't Bother With This Troll
April 19, 2007 - 17:49 ET by emjem24Iron Lady...
While you have good intent, I wouldn't bother with this troll...
Ask people like Blonde or others about this guy and you'll soon find out...
He will not rationally reply because he is empty of both reason and substance. He already has a preplanned agenda and will not be deterred by any of our objections to his stupidity. Just ask him about gun control...
Don't feed this troll...he'll wither and die on the vine soon enough from the lack of attention and go back to DailyK or Huff n' Puff
Yours was a good rebuke but Syg won't care...he'll just go about his blind, liberal talking points as usual.
The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer. Air Force Motto
emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.
Context lacking
April 19, 2007 - 11:32 ET by Mr. BishopSo this has been "... one of the deadliest months in the war." I have to say, so? Look at the total deaths so far, then divide that number by the number of days we've been fighting. Next, take the total number of US deaths in World War II, and divide that number by the number of days fighting, including those killed in Pearl Harbor, as that is what started it for us. Next take the number of US deaths in Vietnam, and divide that up by the number of days we fought. Next, take the number of American deaths in the Civil War, including the Confederate (or without if you want), and divide that up by the number of days fighting. Which of those that you just figured out, is the smallest. I'll bet you anything, the lowest rate is this war.
If you want good news about this war, simply don't read what the MSM tells you is happening, look at what they aren't. Remember within the days following the fall of Baghdad, there was a lot of MSM flack about lack of power, lack of sewer, lack of running water, etc.? Do you think those problems are fixed now? Do you think that Baghdad and other cities in Iraq have more modern schools, hospitals, business centers, housing, etc.? What the MSM doesn't report on, would fill a large book. The only thing they report on, is bad news. When something major happens, they report it reluctantly, but always find ways to downgrade it from an accomplishment.
Examples:
Baghdad fell -- doesn't matter Saddam, sons and company at large.
Comany getting caught -- doesn't matter, Saddam and sons at alrge.
Sons killed -- doesn't matter, Saddam at large.
Saddam captured -- doesn't matter, bin Laden at large.
Zarqawi killed -- doesn't matter, bin Laden still out there, and Al-Muhajer is the new leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, still fighting and killing Shiites and Americans.
Saddam standing trial -- doesn't matter, terrorists in Iraq are still fighting.
Saddam executed by the will of the people of Iraq -- doesn't matter, terrorists are still fighting.
Do you see how this is working? It doesn't matter what good happens in Iraq, it will always be twisted as being bad in one regard or another by the media because they have a vested interest in trying to make this mission fail, or seem a failure.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
What does world war 2 have to
April 19, 2007 - 11:40 ET byWhat does world war 2 have to do with anything?
Baghdad does still suffer from lack of electricity and running water on a regular basis.
Many construction jobs have never been completed or completed in a shoddy manner.
The reason that we don't hear about the good news is because it's basically non-existant and pales in comparison to the magnitude of the bad news.
Try reading again
April 19, 2007 - 11:45 ET by Mr. BishopTry reading the whole thing again, instead of just skipping parts that make your position look stupid. The World War II reference, and the Vietnam reference, and the Civil War reference, were all made to show you how dumb the argument is about a bloody month, a bloody year. You guys have no historical context, or choose to ignore it. So, stop being a moron, and learn to read. Or else, visit.
Baghdad does not suffer from electricity and running water on a regular basis... I know, I was there. Construction jobs are NOT completed in a shoddy manner, or not completed at all. I know, I was there.
There is a ton of good news that happens in Iraq, but it is always downplayed by the Media, and persons such as yourself that blindly believe them
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
I did read your post all the
April 19, 2007 - 11:56 ET byI did read your post all the way through and I still see no reason why the overall deaths from past wars somehow diminish the significance of the ever increasing death toll in Iraq.
You were there is not data. Electricty is a major problem in Baghdad. Here's an empirical chart demonstrating the decrease in daily electricity from 2005 - 2006. So I guess if you were there you just weren't paying attention. Below I've posted a link for a comprehensive report on the status of reconstruction in Iraq (see page 35 for electricity stats)
link
This report basically refutes your unfounded argument.
Simple
April 19, 2007 - 12:04 ET by Mr. BishopIt's really quite simple: you lack any sort of authority as to what is bad, what is horrible, and what is not. You think that a small 3000+ deaths means this is a bad war? That shows you know little to nothing as to what a bad war is. Your attitude toward "bad war" would have had us surrendering to the Japanese, the Germans, the South, the Vietnamese, even the British in the Revolution. That is why this death toll you want to quote means nothing. That is how come you know nothing about which you speak on this subject.
Second, did you actually even READ your source? Look at March 2003, then look down to the bottom of the chart. With the exception of terrorists that knock out power lines and transformers... that is a steady supply of power I see there. The N/A simply means Not Available for Baghdad.... it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Again, I SAW the power. You cannot miss the lights on at night kid-o, no matter how much you try.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Sure I read my source and it
April 19, 2007 - 12:07 ET bySure I read my source and it shows (1) that electricity levels in Baghdad are marginally higher than they were before we overthrew Saddam (abou 4 hours per day then, about 6 now)
(2) How can you make an exception for insurgent activity? That affects the electricity right?
I backed up my assertion with stats, you continue to persist in the I was there argument. That's fine although I'll probably stick with the empirical data
No, try again -- it shows N/A
April 19, 2007 - 12:11 ET by Mr. BishopNo, try again -- it shows N/A currently. That merely means Not Available, not Not Existant. Second, how do I make an exception concerning the terrorists? Easy: they don't hit it that often. As for you backing up your assertion with facts, no you haven't!! You showed a paper that has some statistics, but in no way encompasses all the information since they show the information Not Available for most of Baghdad, not that power was not available!
And yes... I can say, I was there... I was, I saw the power on... what you see, is a pdf document that you think proves you right, but in fact, does not do so. In the greater Iraqi area, you are considerably wrong, and in Baghdad, you have NO information to prove what I say wrong.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Look at avg. hours of electri
April 19, 2007 - 12:19 ET byLook at avg. hours of electricity in baghdad. The N/As are primarily in 2003. The data is right there in the chart on p. 35 clear as day.
No...
April 19, 2007 - 12:25 ET by Mr. BishopLooking at your chart, and looking at the total hours per month... that is what you need to look at. Average hours per day -- are you daft? How many people leave their lights on all night long? SERIOUSLY! In addition, are you aware that martial law also extends to cutting electricity smaller in order to limit targets and enemy visibility? It's called light discipline. The total numbers are what you need to look at, not the megawatts/hr since that is an average taken from a 24-hour day, when most Iraqis don't have an obscene amount of lights on during the middle of the day, or all night long.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Thank you for stating the obv
April 19, 2007 - 12:28 ET byThank you for stating the obvious.
Whoa
April 19, 2007 - 12:33 ET by Mr. BishopStating the obvious? Come now... you were just using that chart as the be all and end all of your argument. Your argument failed to take into account people's electrical usage in total, and assumed the whole thing meant a lack of electricity. Your argument fails on that note, and you think that you can simply say, "Thank you for stating the obvious..." and it somehow negates the fact that your argument was wrong, you were wrong, and completely in error? Oh, I don't think so.
You made a false argument, you used statistics that did not back up your statement(s). Now, as of this moment in time, I was right when I stated previously, that the media does NOT ever report good news... they only hype bad news, which is how this whole thing began.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
The stats do back up my argum
April 19, 2007 - 13:16 ET byThe stats do back up my argument. I have no idea what you're talking about.
6 hours of electricity a day is a lack of electricity.
Just a friendly reminder, electricity is used for other things aside from lights.
No, try again...
April 19, 2007 - 14:19 ET by Mr. BishopThose stats do NOT say how much time electricity is available, they say how much electricity is used. I'd really suggest you take the time to learn what information means, BEFORE you try to use it. Daylight in Iraq can last upwards of 18-hours at times. As such, the lights are not on during this period. Yes, there are other appliances that use electricity, but far and away, the greatest user of electricity in Iraq, is the lights, not air conditioners, not enormous refrigerators and freezers, and not TVs. The greatest single electrical usage comes from their lights. The lights are not on the entire night. As such, if someone uses the lights for, say, 4 hours out of the day -- the electricity used during that timeframe, including the other "appliances" are divided amongst an entire 24-hour period of time. As such, your electricity usage goes down drastically, especially during the times when martial law extends to light discipline blackouts.
Therefor, as I stated earlier... your stats do NOT back up your arguments because they do not measure the amount of electricity available, only the electricity used.
You might as well give up now on this Syg, you will not win this argument.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Mr. Bishop. I think the conta
April 19, 2007 - 14:25 ET by bassndudeMr. Bishop. I think the container your trying to fill has a big hole in it. It is running out the other side.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
True
April 19, 2007 - 14:35 ET by Mr. BishopApparently so... I mean, come on now... this is getting somewhat ridiculous. I've never known a power company, even in the US, to know exactly how much power is available on an hourly basis. I know they can tell how much individual power plants can generate, but not how much is available at any given time since it fluctuates continually based upon usage.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
SYG:Let us discuss the curren
April 20, 2007 - 09:32 ET by BDSYG:
Let us discuss the current situation in Iraq.
Prior to our arrival, ONLY Bagdhad had predictable electricity. Cities such as Samarra had none. Few people own appliances that used electricity such as air conditioners and especially satellite TV's as the importation was proibited by the Baathists to maintain cultural and commodity control.
Today, consumption of electicity is through the roof as freedom has allowed satellite TV's Cell phones, Internet etc to arrive in country and be used by all. THe infrastructure has and is being improved, but it is not keeping up with expanding usage of the commodity to the point that neighborhoods are actually buyins their own generation capability and solving the issue that way.
i see that as an AMAZING sign of success of the US effort.
But what the hell, I have only been there.....
Translation: Oh, sh*t, I am o
April 19, 2007 - 13:15 ET by Roger the ShrubberTranslation: Oh, sh*t, I am out of my league here.
How so? By the way I've notic
April 19, 2007 - 13:18 ET byHow so?
By the way I've noticed the language has gotten quite filthy in here recently. Cursing is soooo classy.
Translation: Damn, I am waaay
April 19, 2007 - 13:43 ET by Roger the ShrubberTranslation: Damn, I am waaay out of their my league. Better change the subject.
Either female or gay. Either
April 19, 2007 - 14:27 ET by bassndudeEither female or gay. Either way Syg is a she.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
You really need up update you
April 19, 2007 - 12:05 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou really need up update your talking points. You forgot to shout QUAGMIRE!, too.
It isn't 2005 anymore. Here is an interesting read that FastEd found yesterday. I realize it doesn't come from al-Reuters or al-AP, so it might not be to your liking.
The data went from 2003 to Ap
April 19, 2007 - 12:08 ET byThe data went from 2003 to April 2007
You puzzle me when you post i
April 19, 2007 - 12:22 ET by Roger the ShrubberYou puzzle me when you post information from the very non-partisan Brookings Institute to come up with your stance. Granted, Baghdad is not secured yet. We know that. Only a fool would say things are 100% peachy over there. We also know that, outside of Baghdad, electricity is much better than it was under Saddam (based on the numbers you present). Rebuilding a nation that has been run into the ground is a task that takes time to do. I think that is the little nugget of wisdom that you, and many of similar political leanings, continue to fail to understand.You have shown poor ability of grasping history
The real world is not a 30-minute sitcom. Get used to it.
I know it takes time. We've
April 19, 2007 - 12:24 ET byI know it takes time. We've had 4 years and little has been done. There's no excuse for that.
Historical context again...
April 19, 2007 - 12:30 ET by Mr. BishopYou really suck at looking at history, don't you? How long until the US secured after the Revolution? I'll make it a lot easier on you... When did we finally leave Germany and Japan after World War II? Yeah, I am bringing them up again. You have no grounding in historical context. For you, a war lasts 2 hours long (average length of most war movies), with the max lasting 9 hours (Lord of the Rings). You think that safety and securing an area happens overnight, and that if it doesn't, there has to be something wrong, and we have to leave.
Instead of demanding results now, try looking throughout history, and not on the TV. Actually look to see how long it took to secure any area, after any war. It never happened overnight.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
My memory's not so good these
April 19, 2007 - 13:14 ET byMy memory's not so good these days but when we occupied Japan and Germany after the war, did they continue to attack our troops on a daily basis while killing each other on a massive scale?
I am not demanding results all of the sudden NOW. You act like we haven't been there for 4 years already. How much did we accomplish in 4 years in WW2?
in WWII Germany
April 19, 2007 - 13:23 ET by tumbler_2007The war ended in 1945, and in Berlin and other large cities they still had an insurgent presence as late as 1947.
Furthermore, today's jihadi insurgence has focused on random bombing by stealth, not meeting our guys in the field. The death doll is disheartening but not a vast number at all. Usually other muslims take the brunt of these hits.
For practical purposes only, the number of our dead is just a tiny fraction of what it would have been during a war with Russia. That may seem a callous way of looking at it, but it's basically an accurate estimate. That's how history will interpret the facts.
That's the best you can come
April 19, 2007 - 13:41 ET by Roger the ShrubberThat's the best you can come up with?
Holy crap, I swear I am back in 2005 reading the same posts, by the same dumbasses who come here with the same tired old talking points.
The only thing Syg said worth noting is "My memory's not so good these days ".
"same dumbasses with the same tired old talking points"
April 19, 2007 - 13:55 ET by RJYou expected something different from hater?
Two legs
April 19, 2007 - 13:57 ET by misterbilltwo legs--everyone who has them should be a super-athlete. I am carrying your logic to a further point. WW2 was not a religious war. Japan and Germany were not filled with people who were convinced we should convert to Shintoism or )pick a religion of your choice). Your logic is quite specious. Before the final conquest, have you forgotten kamikaze fighters??
The post-war resistance in Germany and Japan did not last long and was not as severe because there was no ongoing religious war in either country. Kamikazes died for the Emperor and country., not for the right to force Christians to become Muslims. or be beheaded. Get with the program--you are out on the fringe and about to fall off.
Yes
April 19, 2007 - 14:21 ET by Mr. BishopWe were constantly being attacked in Germany after the war. We were constantly under the threat of war thereafter from the Soviet Union, and we are STILL in Germany chuckles. In addition, in Germany, we were attacked by people who would actually come out and shoot at us. When, may I ask, was the last time that you had to make a decision as to whether or not to shoot a kid using a cell phone to make a call? We've had to make those decisions all the time because that is what they use to set off their IED's Syg... cell phones -- not conventional weapons!
So, yeah... your memory's not so good.
As for how much we accomplished after World War II -- actually, a LOT less then we have accomplished in Iraq. Review the Marshall Plan and its implementation once.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
There you go again, with the
April 19, 2007 - 12:53 ET by Roger the ShrubberThere you go again, with the 30-minute sitcom mentality.
You have nothing to base your expectations on. WE do. All you have to go on is from reading the socialist, er, "progressive" talking points hating the current administration so much they devote 110% effort into destroying whatever positives have been accomplished in Iraq.
Now that the Democrat(ic)s are in power, we'll see ALOT of changes, right? Not so much.
Ass
April 19, 2007 - 12:57 ET by Jimbo“We’ve had 4 years and little has been done”
Ass.
Jimbo says - "There is a fine line between freedom of speech and treason"
I wonder how much would hav
April 19, 2007 - 13:02 ET by MightyMouthI wonder how much would have gotten done with Field Marshall Syg in charge?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
he's friendly fire
April 19, 2007 - 13:06 ET by tumbler_2007Syg would've plinked a few of our G.I.s --Literally.
News media (MSNBC/NYT/USATo
April 19, 2007 - 12:16 ET by JDWNews media (MSNBC/NYT/USAToday...) has yet to report that Iraq oil reserves may be an additional 100 billion barrels.
Good or bad news? Why are they choosing not to report it?
JDW
News media: Scoreboard for terrorists
If you are going to whine about spelling... get a life
They have to find a way to li
April 20, 2007 - 08:57 ET by pbanks7They have to find a way to link it to Bush/Cheney/Halliburton/Rice first. =-)
Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research.
nice points ... can i add som
April 19, 2007 - 14:09 ET by pmohbucknice points ... can i add some additional "downgrades to accomplishments" for the future:
victory in iraq - - there is a strong taliban insurgence in afghanistan, the only "legitimate" war; bin laden is at large
bin laden found dead/captured/killed -- too little, too late, mullah omar is still at large
victory in iraq/afghanistan/ total elimination of terrorism, bin laden found and sentenced for 3000 life terms and islam even deems no virgins waiting for him on his death, iran and north korea succumb and quit nuke programs -- the real war has always been against global warming
global warming crisis "solved/cured" -- nothing can take back what imus said about the rutgers women's basketball team
your right, it's a pointless argument, but it's fun to point out how stupid the left and the media truly are
Furthermore, how the MSM be e
April 19, 2007 - 11:20 ET byFurthermore, how the MSM be expected to cover the heros in Iraq when they're so busy trying to figure out what killed life long drug addict Anna Nicole Smith.
In the infamous words of Fox Superstar, John Gibson...
GIBSON: Now I submit to you that that is a real, honest-to-God drama. Now it may not fit the high-minded views of a lot of news professionals, people who think that their news program is just another part of Foreign Affairs Quarterly. That only a certain kind of news is worthy of their discussing. Those people are snobs. They’re people who, when they see a story, go, “Ew, icky. I don’t want to do that.” I did this for years. I’ve been doing a long time. I’ve approached many stories and said, “That story isn’t worth our trouble.” It has always been a mistake. Always. Every single time I did it. So when I see people like this guy —
[CLIP ANDERSON COOPER] There’s a war on, there’s a war on, there’s a war on.
GIBSON: Oh, there’s a war on, there’s a war on. Maybe, just maybe, people are a little weary, Mr. Cooper, of your war coverage, and they’d like a little something else. Maybe that’s why they all thundered to this story.
[CLIP ANDERSON COOPER] There’s a war on, there’s a war on, there’s a war on.
GIBSON: My complaint about this is what you’re listening to when you hear that guy lecture the audience, is you’re listening to news-guy snobbery. Essentially saying, “I’m better than you. I know what you want to hear about, but I’m better than that story. I’m too high class for that story. I won’t stoop to what you want to hear about.”
I’m not playing that. People want to hear about the Anna Nicole story, I’m happy to tell them.
Syg - what is your point? J
April 19, 2007 - 11:32 ET by Dee BunkSyg - what is your point? John Gibson isn't on the news for one. Just like the networks - fox has one serious national news show a day (Brit Hume Special report) and one on Sunday (Chris Wallace's show). John Gibson's show is an entertainment show. If you want to compare John Gibson's show to a network show than the closest thing would be a reality show like The Apprentice or American Idol. They are entertainment about real life, and Gibson provides a little more value than the other two mentioned.
it's simply an example of why
April 19, 2007 - 11:35 ET byit's simply an example of why Iraq heroes get no coverage.
How so Syg? Mark is talking
April 19, 2007 - 11:51 ET by Dee BunkHow so Syg? Mark is talking about news coverage. You are talking about entertainment. Why don't the networks have a reality show called American Hero? Is that what you are wondering? Fox definitely gives more positive coverage to soldiers on both their news and entertainment shows but the issue here is the news and how the MSM ignores heroes. Britt Hume doesn't go on about Anna Nicole.
There's a difference in Ameri
April 19, 2007 - 11:57 ET byThere's a difference in America between news coverage and entertainment?
Sure could have fooled me.
Come on Syg - you can do bett
April 19, 2007 - 12:35 ET by Dee BunkCome on Syg - you can do better. All you seem to do is put up ambiguous statements meant to defend and excuse your politics. Why don't you try actually analyzing the information and come to a rational conclusion. It's really a lot easier to argue when you do that. Then you can contribute more than saying "you can't prove that" and stuff like that. A four year old can be taught to argue that way.
Oooo! Invoking the Boogeyman!
April 19, 2007 - 11:38 ET by Roger the ShrubberOooo! Invoking the Boogeyman!
If you think about it.
April 19, 2007 - 12:25 ET by E4PukeIt is pretty easy to find negative storys in a war zone, I mean come on its a war. The country suffers attacks daily on itself by its own citizens. They blow up churches, schools, and their own infrastructure. That would be like americans blowing up their own power plants so everyone doesnt have power. The haji's that populate that crap hole are definatly not the brightest bulbs in the christmas tree. I think alot of the total nonstop negative coverage is probably just because it is alot easier to find and to tease the headline "new iraq explosion" than it is to actually do some journalism and find the good news. Or it could be just because we have a republican president. either or.
All the MSM seems to cover is
April 19, 2007 - 11:55 ET by mattmAll the MSM seems to cover is the death toll or how tough life is on the families or how a wounded soldier is dealing with rehab. Everything negative. Everything designed to turn public sentiment against the WOT as being a futile waste. The Jihadists couldn't have a better ally than the MSM.
BBC playing the same game
April 19, 2007 - 12:18 ET by Gary HallBBC playing the same game.
No to Documentary - "Hero's tale is 'too positive' for the BBC"
The MSM has little interest.