Our president seems very opposed to timetables. Well, not seems, he is very opposed. Except I came across a couple of quotes.
George W. Bush, 4/9/99: “Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
George W. Bush, 6/5/99: “I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
[ed. note: article originally ran in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer on 6/5/99]
Any guesses as to what led to his change of opinion?
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
And all the Leftists in the w
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 10:50 ET by UnsaneAnd all the Leftists in the world, like yourself, favored intervention in a civil war that would not serve America's interests (other than showing up the rotting EU).
What may have changed that? Let's see here...the fact that it is NOT a good idea to tell the enemy when you intend to leave? Of course, I AM talking to a Leftist whose vision of the United States is of a whiny, toothless, powerless nation that defers ALL foreign policy decisions to the Champs Elysees and Tiananmen Square; a nation that instead coddles, spoils, and nannies its entire population into oblivion.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
There you go again Unsane.
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 21:17 ET by WhichWingThere you go again Unsane. Here's my opinion. Bush is a hypocrite. When he is talking about Clinton and Kosovo he thinks timetables are a good thing, but when its him in Iraq, they are not.
Do you disagree with my assessment?
Yes. For one thing, Clinton
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 21:24 ET by UnsaneYes. For one thing, Clinton ALWAYS talked in terms of timetables for all the Balkan operations (and then clearly broke them). And back then, most timetables meant the turning over of operations to our inept friends in the rotting EU so that they could continue what the United States started, even though I would maintain that the United States was better off not intervening in the Balkans as that did not serve the interests of the United States.
Tell me, who would follow on in Iraq after the United States pulled out? Syria? Iran?
You DO NOT WANT TO TELL YOUR ENEMIES WHEN YOU ARE LEAVING.
You may paint me as a blind Bush supporter all day long, but your desire to paint me with that brush is only deluding yourself. I have my political principles, quite a few of which Bush is not backing.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I have painted you as nothi
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 21:46 ET by WhichWingI have painted you as nothing. I posted two quotes from Bush that directly contradict what he has been saying of late, you took it upon yourself to go off on a rant. And again, you did all this without addressing the original point of the thread. Do you think that Bush is being hypocritical by saying timetables are good for Clinton and bad for him?
Read the very first sentence
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 22:12 ET by UnsaneRead the very first sentence of my original response, if that won't severely strain you eyes.
Bush is not, I repeat (as your literacy needs work) NOT a hypocrite. For one thing, Clinton was the one living and dying by timetables, and Bush never has.
Name one timetable Bush has set.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
How about you read the quot
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 22:24 ET by WhichWingHow about you read the quotes I posted. Why was he all for timetables then, and not now?????????????????????????????????????
TWO DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. COM
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 22:46 ET by TexasOptimistTWO DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
George W. Bush is not a conservative, but I still support his presidency. I'd rather have him as president than ANY of the Democrats.
Merry Christmas 2007.
I read your quotes. I respo
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 23:34 ET by UnsaneI read your quotes. I responded to them. It is not my fault that you are doing everything in your power to be as obtuse as possible.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You are right, how could I
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 02:31 ET by WhichWingYou are right, how could I possibly expect you to be honest enough to say that his actions contradict his statements.
How can I expect you to be in
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 10:44 ET by UnsaneHow can I expect you to be intellectually honest enough to admit that the then-governor of TX was responding to a President who did NOTHING but set timetables, and that both situations were quite different?
But then, I am talking to an adolescent who hates the idea of the United States being a superpower, who desperately wants it turned into a whiny, toothless, powerless Nanny State...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
My mistake, I misread the q
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 19:12 ET by WhichWingMy mistake, I misread the quote by George W. Bush. I didn't see the part where he said "except for certain situations" or "in most cases."
Well, that's what happens whe
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 23:46 ET by UnsaneWell, that's what happens when you rip quotes from papers and refuse to look at them in context, all because you hate Bush because he is NOT a coddling babysitter as you demand Presidents be, you being a good Leftist.
I bet you would make a great cult leader. Just do that with one or two quotes from the Bible and you will be set!
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Missing....
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 04:50 ET by Timothy HAnd I missed the part wher the then-governor said that this should be the case in any situation other than the one that was currently being discussed.
I also missed the part where he favored pulling out of Kosovo and leaving it to Milosovech's supporters.
I also missed the part where Bush has ever set a deadline for withdrawl from Iraq, unlike Clinton, who told us (I was there) that we would be home by Christmas, and then left us there.
I also missed the announcement of the nations or organizations that intend on taking over for us when we leave Iraq, much as the EU was to take over if we left Kosovo.
The only thing I find really hypocritical is the fact that you and other leftist here and elsewhere scream for timetables in Iraq, but never peep about Germany and Japan (62 years and running), Korea (54 years and running) or Kosovo (12 years and running).
Where is your outrage, WhichWing? Your responses and post effectively mean that you believe all situations to be equal, so where is your outrage over the lack of timetables? Or are you just a hypocrite?
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
Yes of course Timothy H
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 12:10 ET by SportPoliticsYes of course Timothy H, so many here cut to the quick and make the liberal flee so much better than I do. I'll answer for chicken libble.
!!! (they always start with extra emotion) I was talking about Bush and failure to keep his promise about timetables after he lied us into a quagmire we cannot win that made us less safe and our enemy stronger, our economy weaker, our military exhausted and incapable of defending the homeland, and thousands of children unable to have both parents at home raising them, and tens of thousands of mentally disturbed returning discouraged and bewildered kids who are dropping out like flies,and can't even speak out since our 1st amendment rights are gone !!! And don't you dare claim I said any of this, because I'll deny it.
Name one timetable Bush has
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 21:47 ET by BlameTheMediaName one timetable Bush has set.
That's just not even valid since WW isn't making the argument that Bushie set timetables. so frustrating. read what's there instead of reading your own crap into it.
No you didn't WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:49 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing, the first falseline you have of Bush up there is something he has already addressed, repeatedly. The exit strategy is training the Iraqi forces up to speed and slowly allowing them to take over operations against the terrorist insurgency.
That's the exit strategy. It has been stated endlessly, and liberals still claim there isn't one.
On your second complaint, the thing that has changed, other than what Unsane pointed out ( indicating no support from the EU in this case ) is the nature of this insurgency, which is drawing a major amount of it's strength from outside the nation of Iraq, and from terrorists with a pan arabia vision, therefore announcing a timetable is not correct in this case, noone to takeover the operations and many regional and ultraregional players mucking up the works.
A timetable CAN be announced, once enough control over the insurgency is established. Prior to that, a timetable is a declaration of defeat.
In other words, the security of Iraq cannot be handled currently by the Iraqi forces alone, and it appears that there isn't a date certain where that indication of control is will be stout enough that confidence in leaving on a timed basis is reasonable considering the value of the staying power in allowing the 30 years oppressed, twice abandoned,and still shakey on their feet populace to regain a measure of confidence in the ultimate conclusion to their efforts.
A timetable in this case, loses hearts and minds, to a very large degree, and this is indeed a unique situation, not foreseen in 1999, not predicted even as the war ensued, or in the immediate aftermath.
Doesn't an insurgency take 8-10 years to quell, at least by historical standards ? So, there appears to be a sort of timetable, but the quivering kneed leftists likely prevent the already known conditions and length of stay - discussed enough that people have heard it several times, a very dangerous politcal card to openly profess here in liberal crybaby land.
I think that's the truth.
I also think the Iraqi forces are coming online, in a much beter way, because the crybaby lib press hasn't been whining about it lately. Youknow when the lib press isn't whining about something, it's going well.
I also saw a lib press report about power being handed over to the Iraqi NG in some big name Iraq city just yesterday. They characterized it as a "homegrown celebration" and an arrogant styled "booting" of the coalition, as if it was a victory agains the USA.
LOL - That was indicative of much more than just the Iraqi forces doing well, but that change in the newspeak lib msm angle and tempo of the story told me this: Even the Bush hating press has confidence in that Iraqi battalion, because they no longer whined that they were poorly trained and incapable, but had to recede to the hate Bush and the USA point of "booting the dang coalition fromthe city with cheers"... ( kinda like the fantasy of "taking back the White House", or "taking our country back" that the massively overblown partisan traitor lying dems spew )
So, yeah there are indicators, and that's a good one, seeing how the babbling lib press does their hate America angle...
SP...You gotta admit ww has a
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:56 ET by Clear thinkerSP...
You gotta admit ww has all the leftist talking points down cold.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Yes Clear thinker
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 12:34 ET by SportPoliticsHe isn't as bad as the rest though, or most, IMO. He might actually be trying, or be authentic.
Ok Clear Thinker, I was definitely wrong
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:29 ET by SportPoliticsOk Clear Thinker, I was definitely wrong, and you were exactly correct.
It's a ww loser without even an internal mental formation to back up the mind numbed pelolib robot zombie spit bubble blinky spew. It's bad, same bat guano, same bottom of the barrel.
I know, you tried to warn me.
And so many of the thoughts
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 21:48 ET by BlameTheMediaAnd so many of the thoughts here are soooo original. If it weren't for Rush and Ann you guys wouldn't know what to say half the time. (Not all of you, just most)
outside?
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 21:52 ET by misterbillYa wanna come outside and say that pilgrim??
See I use John Wayne too! You really should see it in person!
Irony
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 17:12 ET by UnsaneThis coming from someone so intensely wedded to Leftist orthodoxy, which cannot and will not at ANY cost tolerate any differences of opinion.
I can certainly understand why you fear Mr. Limbaugh (who has 20 million listeners and opened the floodgates of AM radio to countless imitators, some good, some mediocre), but why do you fear such a horrific writer like Ann Coulter? Have you even bothered trying to listen to one of Limbaugh's shows or read one of Coulter's books?
It is always amusing to me to hear Leftists whine about how Rightists don't think for themselves...when in truth, if they bothered looking (they won't, out of total fear), they would see that there are many differences of opinion within the strictures of conservatism that are being fiercely debated even now. I should know. Many principles I adhere to are repugnant to quite a few on the Right.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane...That is what the lef
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 23:01 ET by bigtimerUnsane...
That is what the leftist little pointy headed trolls do here all the time, try to paint us all with one broad stroke...
Most know very well we do not support every little thing President Bush has done...but he has not, nor do I think he ever will back down from the terrorists..
Something the little pinheads just can't seem to wrap their empty ungrateful minds around.
Twits at their best.
Go ahead and point out wher
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 02:42 ET by WhichWingGo ahead and point out where I said you supported every little thing President Bush has done. I didn't address the post to anyone. You are the ones that feel the need to try to explain away the obvious difference in his words and his actions.
Intellectual honesty and read
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 10:46 ET by UnsaneIntellectual honesty and reading comprehension on your part will go a long way.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
The Kosovo endeavors were COM
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 22:45 ET by TexasOptimistThe Kosovo endeavors were COMPLETELY different from the US endeavors in Afghanistan and Iraq. If the U.S. had set up a timetable in Kosovo, chances were good that it WOULDN'T lead to future destablistation. However, if the U.S. signaled a timetable in Iraq, it could end up creating a HUGE problem. If the U.S. announced a timetable, the insurgents could easily adopt a "rope-a-dope" strategy, biding their time until the U.S. forces left Iraq. Then what would happen? ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE.
George W. Bush is not a conservative, but I still support his presidency. I'd rather have him as president than ANY of the Democrats.
Merry Christmas 2007.
Additionally, as WW refuses t
Thu, 04/05/2007 - 23:37 ET by UnsaneAdditionally, as WW refuses to understand, the rotting EU could have stepped in and taken care of the Bosnia/Kosovo issues. (But then, we had been asking them to do that for years, and the whole while, they dithered and whined and otherwise did NOTHING that entire time.) So a timetable would not hve hurt us on that score, they way it would in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
What needs to happen in Ira
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 02:44 ET by WhichWingWhat needs to happen in Iraq in order for you to be comfortable calling it a victory?
Eliminate the major Jihadist
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 02:52 ET by NL207Eliminate the major Jihadist influences.
(1) Convert 12,000 Al Qaeda fighters to rotting corpses.
(2) Kill Moqtada Al Sadr and dissolve the Mahdi Army.
(3) Leave an Iraqi government strong enough to keep domestic order and in particlar, keep out the Jihadists, but weak enough as to be no threat to its neighbors.
3 is gonna take an awfully
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 03:27 ET by sarcasmo3 is gonna take an awfully big, awfully strong one (which means in effect a projected threat to neighbors, just like with Saddam's government) because Iraq is still three countries, with plenty of scores to settle among themselves... Kurdistan is likely to be the only one of the 3 that likes us at all. Shiastan is likely to have continued religious/tribal ties to Iran's dictatorship, and they're likely to hate America for the foreseeable future. Sunnistan is likely to have continued similar ties to the various Sunni dictatorships in the area, such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and also likely to hate America for the foreseeable future.
JMR
Maybe the Iraqis need to form
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 04:55 ET by NL207Maybe the Iraqis need to form a Fedralized system of government where its states have semi autonomous rule similar to what the CSA envisioned here or what our national government was like in 1800. Something like that might work for them. Its certainly better than any of, Saddam, a Sunni theocracy or a Shia theocracy.
Swiss style cantons MIGHT w
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 11:01 ET by sarcasmoSwiss style cantons MIGHT work, but I think they're too used to an all-powerful government in capital city controlling all aspects of life for that kind of idea to actually take root, which is why I propose 3 separate countries. Your point brings to mind a Jay Leno (and possibly others) joke from early on in the conflict when they were trying to figure out how to draft a constitution: "They could just use the US Constitution, since we're not using it anymore."
JMR
It will be a victory when Ira
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 04:46 ET by Conservative VoiceIt will be a victory when Iran is no longer a threat
Careful, CV. You are respon
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 10:51 ET by UnsaneCareful, CV. You are responding to WhichWing, who is infinitely more concerned for America's popularity around the world rather than its interests and national security. He also craves the idea of a pathetically weakened America...after all, if we stick to the policy of pre-emption, he says it is only a matter of time before the United States is looked at like Hitler's Germany.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I'm a little tired of you d
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 19:03 ET by WhichWingI'm a little tired of you deciding my views and opinions for me. Take a read through this post. Why is it that the others can have a civil discusion with each other and you are sitting here attacking me personally?
So, you want America to be
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 19:07 ET by Free StinkerSo, you want America to be Safe & Strong ?
Yes, but we have an apparen
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 19:14 ET by WhichWingYes, but we have an apparent disagreement in how to achieve that.
It would seem so.Should we
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 19:26 ET by Free StinkerIt would seem so.
Should we leave Iraq (much like we abandoned Afghanistan in 1989 when the Soviets pulled out) and let it become a haven for terrorists?
Did you notice that after the Iraq War, Lybia started to straighten up, Syria pulled out of Lebanon, and Egypt and Saudi Arabia held elections. None of this is perfect or ideal by any means, but it is better than we had before, and I'd prefer the fight was over there, not in the aisle of a 757.
Isn't Iraq breeding terrori
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 23:06 ET by WhichWingIsn't Iraq breeding terrorists at a much faster rate than it did before? Unsane will piss and moan all day long that I want to have a "whiny, toothless, blah, blah, blah nation." But he doesn't understand, or refuses to understand, that creating more enemies than you kill is not a recipe for victory. I think he has also mistaken diplomacy for appeasement.
In all honesty, I don't have an answer for Iraq. I do think we need to get out, but I am fully aware that we can't just pick up and leave. We created the chaos in that country, and we should help to correct it. How do we do that? I do not know.
Typical liberal
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 23:46 ET by gfrrmanThe poster child of the Democrat/liberal party. ..."I don't like what's happening, but I don't have ANY answers or a plan".. But I will stand in the corner and bitch and moan and groan like a 5 yr old and have a g'damn hissy fit and blame everbody else for not coming up with a solution!! If you don't have anything that would help besides "I don't know", maybe you just need to just STFU!!!! You offer NOTHING!!!!, NADA, ZILCH, ZERO!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
gfrrman
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:02 ET by SportPoliticsBut it's worse than that. He also knows " we have to get out".
I just read that some US state had to send another load of National Guard to the Balkans. Do we "have to get out" of there ?
Do we "have to get out" of Afghanistan ?
Do we "have to get out " of the Korean peninsula ?
Guess not, really. We can keep sending replacement troops to Clinton's unsettled balkans war area, forever, and never will a lib ever claim slick willie's nightmare xtian murder spree for AQ muzzies has to end. That was great how their court case utterly failed and Milosevich died in prison, after successfully defending himself against all the false charges. Wow, the wrong side of the war, it's still costing us troops, and never does the msm or a lib complain. That whole area is a disaster.
Earlier some lib gave a dire warning that Iran has a couple hundred thousand troops,and is a real military, not to be reckoned with by the USA since we're stretched so thin.
Uhh, we have like 2.3 million total all told. Yeah,so a couple hundred thousand is a real a** kicker, like Saddam, who had 150,000 iraq guard, and 300,000 more paid fighters.
We're all gonna die, the libs said so.
What you miserably fail to un
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:03 ET by UnsaneWhat you miserably fail to understand is the following:
1) If the crime rate in Houston goes up, I won't expect to see Bill White get on TV and say "I am reducing our police force by half because having a police force makes more criminals". That is, if he wants to continue to be mayor of Houston.
2) If fires and arson becomes a problem, I won't likewise expect Mr. White to say "To reduce the threat of fires, I am shutting down half of the fire stations permanently. That is, once again, if he wants to continue to be the mayor of Houston.
3) Did the ranks of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union swell after the deployment of Pershings and GLCMs to Europe in 1983?
4) Did the Nazi Party gain more members after D-day?
5) Is there a massive South Korean wing of the Korean Worker's Party that is swelling in ranks due to U.S. forces being there?
6) I visited Japan last year and was treated with extreme kindness by the Japanese people. Mind explaining why that was?
You are going to have to face cold, hard reality one day. As long as the United States exists, someone will harbor a grudge against it. In short, the only way we will not have enemies of any kind is if we just wake up tomorrow and end the United States of America. You, WhichWing, are close to being 231 years too late.
"We created the chaos in that country" - Sure, and life was WONDERFUL under Saddam Hussein, wasn't it, WW? Of course it was! Nothing Bad Ever Happens On The Left, according to WW.
In closing, I recommend you read the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. If only to read one specific scene:
In the world of this novel, every high school student had to take a course called History and Moral Philosophy. Every student had to take it, but none ever had to pass. On the final day of the course, the teacher heard this whine from a student: "My mother told me that violence doesn't solve anything." Without hesitation, the teacher said, "The citizens of Carthage would very much appreciate those views. Why doesn't she go there and tell them? Better yet, you go tell them."
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
To add, the terrorists, like
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:51 ET by Conservative VoiceTo add, the terrorists, like all bullies, understand strength. If you negotiate they will see it as weakness and demand more. He seems to forget that we were minding our business on 9-11. But if you show strength then and only then you gain respect.
I remember a father telling his daughter no, and then counting to 3. She didn't stop, so he said "I said No" and proceeded to count to 3. He did this over and over again, until he gave up. What did the girl learn? That her dad can count and all she has to do is be more patient and then be able to do whatever she wants. Diplomants with no backbone to follow through on a threat accomplish the same thing. Of course to liberals who think feelings and self worth is more important than obedience, counting to 3 works.
That is why I loved John Bolt
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 01:09 ET by bigtimerThat is why I loved John Bolton CV.
I wished of all people in this world he was the one who would run for President.
I know it would never work, he isn't PC at all, he isn't a pretty boy or whatever this world thinks we need anymore, he just tells it like it is in plain simple ENGLISH...he would be my man...period.
John Bolton for VP now there
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 01:27 ET by Conservative VoiceJohn Bolton for VP now there is a ticket :)
CV,Well... now... no... I sai
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 01:34 ET by bigtimerCV,
Well... now... no... I said President!
I know darn well it is a dream ticket, so I will not even settle for VICE!
Laughing I hope you know...
Happy Easter to you CV...and all those you hold dear.
I got to get out of here...later.
How do we do that? Keep tr
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:12 ET by Free StinkerHow do we do that?
Keep traing the Iraqi Army & Police. Get more agressive in smacking down terrorists. Bomb everywhere Armini-Jihad is sleeping over in Iran. Same thing for the thug, Ass-ad, in Damascus
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"George W. Bush simply reminds leftists everyday what they will never be. And they hate him for it." --Tammy Bruce
Free...Couldn't agree more!Ge
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:16 ET by bigtimerFree...
Couldn't agree more!
Geesh little brother I am getting to love you more and more.
You may even get invited to come back home..that is after you find that lottery ticket you misplaced!
LOL!
Happy Easter
Drinking & Posting
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:27 ET by Free StinkerYou may even get invited to come back home
And you lecture Blonde about not Drinking & Posting ? :-p
Free..What the heck are you t
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:33 ET by bigtimerFree..
What the heck are you talking about?
Dang!
Invitation rescinded!
Hurt my feelings...I forgot you followed B around like a lost puppy dog.
My bad.
Still sending you and yours a Happy Easter.
I forgot you followed B aroun
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 16:56 ET by Free StinkerI forgot you followed B around like a lost puppy dog.
Next thing, you're going to call me a Liberal.
Geez Free...In the first plac
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 17:03 ET by bigtimerGeez Free...
In the first place I didn't call you anything, in the second place I was agreeing with your great post above to start with, in the third place I was joking about the oldest sibling thing we had going on months and months back, and you know it....remember, you took me of being a friend list over that or some such...
Goodness gracious...lighten up, quit trying to pick a fight still today...
Once again, Happy Easter...and I mean that.
Enough already.
Did I mention that Balboa i
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 09:04 ET by Free StinkerDid I mention that Balboa is on my Buddy List ?
Ah, diplomacy. Good to see
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 00:15 ET by UnsaneAh, diplomacy. Good to see you have vested so much faith in it! Too damn bad its record in history is so piss-poor, especially when not teamed with things like MASSIVE VIOLENCE, the imminent threat thereof, and VICTORY.
Let me give you a great example of how I would do diplomacy. Let us use the recent captivity of the British sailors as an example. I am not a Brit, nor am I a Foreign Minister, but I'll just play one on NB.
Negotiations would be quite short. I would enter the room and would say, "You know what to do. Hand over the sailors and nobody gets hurt." Of course, the Iranians would make their statement; except unlike most diplomats, who repeat their positions ad nauseum (arms control negotiations were painful in that regard especially), I'd get up and leave.
I would then hit the mikes and the waiting media outside, and have the shortest press conference in history, consisting of three little words, which spark the military operation: "Sorry. We Tried."
Bombs begin falling and a rescue operation commences.
The next day, after I have gotten what I wanted, I begin another press conference with "Now that they know I am serious..."
Look at what Reagan did. In October 1986, when Gorbachev made lousy offers to him (begging Reagan to put an end to SDI), he got up and left the Reykjavik summit. I remember this well. The world was aghast at why Reagan would do such a thing. Well, for one thing, he was in a position of strength. Why cave to The Evil Empire when he didn't have to? BUT, as a result of that confrontation, and the military buildup in Europe and elsewhere, and the deployment of the Pershing 2s and GLCMs in the face of whiny Leftist opposition (who never dared ask themselves why the Soviets couldn't withdraw their SS-20s from the European theater), a better deal was on tap in late 1987 in Washington, as both sides agreed to eliminate an entire class of nuclear weapons.
When you desire peace, you don't just babble about how much you want peace. You arm to protect it. As Vegetius once said, "If you desire peace, prepare for war." Sad but true, and I am, as I was once described, "the ultimate realist".
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Good job Unsane
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:31 ET by SportPoliticsGood job Unsane. Appreciated that outline of actions.
It made me realize something. The libs have this whole it takes two to tango thing, and the zero tolerance,and the no finger pointing and saying bang bang, and the expelling the fighting kids...
But in all that, the libs always have mommie or big lib NEA government around to break up the fight and settle it all, then enforce the ensuing split of the parties in the classroom for the rest of the year, or to their separate rooms at home. etc.
In the big bad world, there is no mommie or government lib funded teacher to come to the rescue, and tower over the scuttling nations, knocking them or grabbing them by the ear and separating them.
It's more like a permanent unsupervised playground situation, with no parents or teachers around, ever. Or latchkey kids at home with the cheetos and only one playstation unattended by anyone.
Maybe I should say it's more like a bunch of guys at a bowling alley with plenty of beer. A fights gonna break out sooner or later, but when fights break out against nations, who is the big bad police, or the mommie lib government ?
I think that's why the libs want the UN to rule the world so badly. They'ed have a new mommie to make the kids stop fighting,they think.
WhichWing.....
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 03:43 ET by Timothy HWhichWing....
Don't you get it? These terrorists aren't the result of our actions in Iraq, or anywhere else in the world. They are the result of an ideological difference. Are you really trying to say that we caused their radicalization, and as the result of a free Iraq, there are more terrorists?
Well, you would be right. I am not joking here, nor am I in agreement with anything else you have said. But on this one point, you are correct.
You asked earlier what Victory would be to us? Well, I can't speak for my friend Unsane, but I'm guessin he feels very near to the way I do. Let me give explaining this to you a shot.
I said previously that you were correct in the notion that we caused the radicalization of many of these new terrorists. But we view this in very different terms. Yes, our actions brought about an increase in the attempt to radicalize new islamists, but no for the reasons you suggest. Fear is the true reason. They fear the Hope that we bring with us, and ultimately, they are trying to recruit more in the hopes of stifling that hope.
What is Victory? Victory is liberty. Victory is Hope. And these new terrorists are an indication that the untimate victory is cycling on. Why are these Terrorists recruiting so hard? Because hope is their greatest enemy. Islam may be a religion of peace, related to Judaism and Christianity. But Radical Islam is a tool of oppression. They think differently than we do. They do not want what we want. We can give them everything they ask, and they will cheer, and then start plotting our death. We can leave the middle east, and they will cheer, and start plotting to attack us here. The basis for all of this is the difference between the ideologies. We wish to advance the world, regardless of race, religion, etc. They seek to kill those who do not believe as they do. Nothing we offer them, short of conversion to Islam (but even that has it's problems, as the constant Shiah/Sunni fighting is evidence of.), will appease them. Because we stand for everyhting they don't. Tolerance, Liberty, Prosperity.....and most of all Hope.
The Statue of Liberty is more than just a monument. It is a symbol. It is an Idea. Her torch is a beacon, a shining light, meant to guide the world through the fog of tyranny, subjegation and oppression and toward a better way of life. Nothing strikes more fear into the core of the fundamentalists hearts than her visage. Because hope is truest weapon against oppression. She is a symbol of hope the world over. Every one of our troops carries her light with them.
This is why they fear us. This is why they fear our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fear that if her light reachs this place, and starts to spead to the Syrian, Iranian, Jordanian, Saudi, and other arab peoples, that hope will spread. And those with hope are far less easily oppressed. That Light...That hope, is the seed of liberty. And the Radical Islamists fear nothing more. Hope is the beginning of liberty.
This is why leaving is wrong. This is why we have never left Korea, Japan, and Germany. Because Lady Liberty's light shines through us. Look at Eastern Europe and Eastern Asia. Look what her light has done. But it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen on a scheduled timeline. Over sixty years have gone by since the end of World War II, and we are still seeing the fruit of our efforts blooming in Asia and Europe today. And more will bloom tomorrow. This is what we strive for in the middle east. This is what we work for. To make true Jeffersons words, "that all men were created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Lady Liberty is why they hate us. She is why they fear us. And the only way to silence her is to silence us, to kill us. To try and remove that symbol of hope, to extinguish her spark from the hearts of those they wish to oppress. We could leave Iraq tomorrow, and they would celebrate their victory, and then use that victory to recruit even more terrorists to come here and work towards a final victory.
And, regardless of what the Media, who have moved closer and closer to becoming active propagandists for dictators, despots and oppressors in general, may print, we are winning this battle. I have two brothers currently in Iraq. Our soldiers, who are far more reliable and have far more invested than some socialist scribe with an axe to grind at the local AnyMetro Herald, tell us of continued greeting and attempted giftings in the street by appreciative Iraqis. The seeds have been planted, and these fundamentalists want to spoil the crop by displacing our troops before the Lady's Torch starts to shine in the shadows of the surrounding nations.
But for now, the Matron of Freedom bears down to fend off the newest waves of oppression and smiles a little at their folly. When left to her work, she and her infantry have never failed.
-"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It is something that must be fought for, protected, and passed on to them to do the same." Ronald Reagan-
Timothy H...WOW!You said it a
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 17:28 ET by bigtimerTimothy H...
WOW!
You said it all so beautifully.
Thank you.
I am copying this and passing it on to those who will enjoy it...and those who need to learn some things in my opinion that you put so well into words and wrote...for others to learn from.
Thank you once again.
May your brothers stay safe.
May all of those serving have a great Easter if possible...you have my gratitude.
Appreciated
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 04:36 ET by Timothy HThanks for the kind words, BT. Both about the post, and my brothers. It is appreciated.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
Timothy H - A second wow--
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 17:40 ET by misterbillTimothy H - A second wow--I hope the editors of our site release your words to as much of the world as possible. You have encapsulated all that America means to me. Yes, there is a stiff price to pay and if you are one of the families that pays that price you have the right to question the steepness of that price, but then you move forward. America does not shy away from confrontation. We turn the other cheek, but once. We cannot let our country fall into the hands of a Pelosi and her cringing cowardly cohorts. We cannot let people like McCain and Murtha who have lost their courage in their old age, give our country away or appease tyrants and terrorists. Thank you for your essay. It is beautiful. It is impassioned, moving and thank God, true! May God bless you and your brothers and family. My thanks to them for being true Americans and defending me and mine!
Misterbill
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
Apppreciation part II
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 04:44 ET by Timothy HThank you for the kind words, misterbill. The post was from the bottom of my heart and the passions I have for our country. It must be realized that this war will not end soon, nor will it end in Iraq. This war is about fundamentalist who fear us and our way of life, and want to kill us before it spreads any further. My greatest regret for this President is that, though he does understand this, he hasn't the politcal courage, after the Viet-Nam style media beating he has taken, to orate this himself.
And thank you for the kind words for my brothers' and my service. It is appreciated.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
I'll give you a third "
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:24 ET by WhichWingI'll give you a third "wow." Was a well crafted post. I will only disagree a little bit. I don't think they hate that we have freedom in our own nation. I think that they despise the notion we have that we are in charge of spreading western styles of government throughout the world. (Even if they truly would benefit from it.)
But again, and honestly, a great post on your part.
Appreciation: part III
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 04:53 ET by Timothy HThank you, as well, WhichWing, for the compliment. From what you are saying, you don't disagree at all. Our style of government is just part of that light, my friend. It is the cement of the foundation of Freedom and Hope. But they wouldn't benefit from it any more than Sheikh Mansur, al-Zarqawi, etc...have. They don't want freedom, They want to oppress. Democracy has a way of kicking oppression right in the a**. They do hate us because we are free.....and because we are spreading that freedom around the world.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
Appreciation Part III: Clarification
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 06:26 ET by Timothy HI wanted to make what I am tryin to say here clear. What I am saying is that, while they may not hate our freedom (a sentiment I would contest, but for the sake of argument, I will not at this time.), it is the root of what they DO hate. They hate what that freedom means, and what it represents to the rest of the world. It shows the oppressed that a better way IS possible. WE threw of the shackles of oppression 231 years ago, and have been spreading our brand of freedom ever since. Our nation, and her story, are a symbol of hope worldwide. That is what those who wish to oppress hate. As I said above, it is the light of hope that they hate and fear most.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
I like the idea of spreadin
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 07:26 ET by WhichWingI like the idea of spreading democracy when they want us there. But, and I'm sure some will not believe this, not everyone wants what we have. Some want to live under the extreme rules of their religion. Some don't want what they perceive to be as a lack of morals. And I think its our refusal to understand that that has made us a few enemies. Now some places do look to us as a beacon of hope, no doubt about it. But there are others who fear our need to "spread the word." I would think that most nations would be happy once they get to the freedom, but the turmoil their country must endure along the way can be too much sometimes. I'm sure we had doubters in our own nation as we fought for freedom. But we started the revolt, not an invading nation.
What will it take for you to
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:02 ET by UnsaneWhat will it take for you to understand that the United States of America has enemies for the audacious act of existing?
And you say freedom is not precious enough to endure the turmoil along the way? What about Boston having its economy ground to a halt from the Boston Tea Party on, as the British closed the harbor? Or the fact that other segments of the fledgling U.S. economy weren't doing so well as the armies collided in various places throughout the original 13 states? What about the destruction being caused by both loyalists and patriots alike?
If the early Americans had that attitude, we'd still be British.
Exporting freedom and liberty throughout the world, in the long run, contributes more to world peace than you may believe. Name for me a time when two liberal democracies went to war against each other.
And as for your comments about how some want to live under extreme rules of religion and so forth...I find it very hard to believe that there are people out there who would willingly turn over their freedoms to anybody for any reason. Could it be that you are saying that people in one particular part of the world do not want the ability to choose whatever government they wish?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You have misconstrued every
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 07:50 ET by WhichWingYou have misconstrued everything I said.
This was from that post, now read the ENTIRE sentence:
I would think that most nations would be happy once they get to the
freedom, but the turmoil their country must endure along the way can be
too much sometimes.
Read it again if necessary.
You said this:
I find it very hard to believe that there are people out there who
would willingly turn over their freedoms to anybody for any reason.
Believe it or not, there are people who are willing to do just that.
And this:
Could it be that you are saying that people in one particular part of
the world do not want the ability to choose whatever government they
wish?
I didn't say that, nor did I imply it.
WhichWing, such quick selective sexing down of your post
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:55 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing, such quick selective sexing down of your post:
[But, and I'm sure some will not believe this, not everyone wants what we have. Some want to live under the extreme rules of their religion. Some don't want what they perceive to be as a lack of morals. And I think its our refusal to understand that that has made us a few enemies.]
Now how was Unsane's response not exactly indicative of what you said. I note in your 3 copy and pastes, you left out the above. Gee I wonder how you managed that...
We're you just all pissed off, or did I just hallucinate what I copy and pasted from your post,that you left out.
You know, you left that part above out when you whined back in a false rebuttal.
I just figured I had better say it 3 times as well, since you avoided your own words 3 times.
You're amazing.
Well, smart guy, I only cop
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:15 ET by WhichWingWell, smart guy, I only copied and pasted once from my own post (which can be found a couple of inches above.) I copied that particular sentence from the original post because it was clear that Unsane chose ignore the first half of the sentence.
I'll spell it out for you. The original statement was this:
I would think that most nations would be happy once they get to the
freedom, but the turmoil their country must endure along the way can be
too much sometimes.
Unsane said "And you say freedom is not precious enough to endure the turmoil along the way?" As if the whole statement read "The turmoil their country must endure along the way is too much."
Does that help you to understand why Unsane's response was not exactly indicative of what I said?
The other copy and pastes were from Unsane's comments, which I was responding too.
Looking back at it, I think "can seem like too much sometimes" would have been more appropriate.
I hope this has been helpful.
Helpful to you perhaps WhichWay
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:41 ET by SportPoliticsHelpful to you perhaps WhichWay ( 3 little quotelets in one fell swoop arguing idiot ), since you've proven yourself wrong again, taking from your same post I took from, and claiming there was some difference in what Unsane said without a distinction, and then finally caving into nothing at the end.
I get it, we'll just redact the part you conveniently left out ( the inconvenient truth about what you said that Unsane saw, you omitted, and I reminded you of) - and then, after you whine he misinterpreted, you'll try to correct me, but instead correct yourself, and post what you claim you wanted to say, but didn't, hopefully changing the meaning of one sentence to get out of it, but never addressing the one I copied that you wrote, because it makes your entire thrust clear and Unsane's response absolutely appropriate.
So, yeah it helped, you caved, and I am further convinced how spin and lies and anger and refusal to admit your stance once challenged is your stock in trade. You have a sort of "living post" thing going there, where seconds later what you wrote can suddenly take on new meaning, as you delete entire sentences, and change a word, here or there.
Super.
You truly are ridiculous.
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:21 ET by WhichWingYou truly are ridiculous. You act as if I'm misrepresenting my own statement by quoting one line of it for clarification. And the statement in question? It was right above, all you had to do was scroll up. Quit taking my words and statements and trying to twist them into your wet dream of a liberal mindset. Muddy the waters all you want, my words are there to be read.
Hey, Unsane
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:54 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing is so brilliant, that he has figured out, that there are some people there, that don't want our freedom, they want to live under the strict controls of their religion ( we call those terrorists and insurgents and Al Qaeda ), and smarty WhichWing thinks we have made enemies by not understanding that there are those people over there.
ROFLMAO - YEAH BUDDY.
But, he really doesn't mean it, because he also said he would be ok if the people wanted us there. So he is arguing the entire lot, or at least the vast *liberal(sarc)* majority don't want us there. Yes, those nasty religious freaks are the majority "in Iraq", all those voters.....
LOL
Man if you break down a liberals babbling spew, you find out they have contradicted themselves so many times, it takes 20 minutes to find out all the instances of stupidity and contradiction in a few paragraphs.
It's actually an amazing skill, to be a spewbabbling liberal.
A real world test.
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 22:51 ET by Timothy HI'm not opposed to testing your theory in the real world. As a matter of fact, I think it would be great for the nation to test this theory in actually practice, and make a final decision about all of this. Let the Iraqis decide. Let them vote. Allow them to illustrate your point. Let there be a nationwide vote, conducted by the Swiss, as a nuetral observer. The vote would consist of two very specific choices. First choice: America should withdraw immediately. Second choice: America should stay and finish the job.
If the mass populous doesn't want us there, tan I would be more opposed to us being there than you are. Let their vote be considered in the decision to stay or leave. I'm not saying that Iraqis should decide American foreign policy, but what I am saying is that our government could make the decision to move forward, or to leave, based on the will of Iraq's people.
But, based on second-hand experience, I don't think this would end well for the anti-war side.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
Timothy,I like your propositi
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 23:02 ET by BlondeTimothy,
I like your proposition. I suspect the dems would never go for it though. And as you know, they are in control now (well, they think they are).
It's great to see you back here, friend, putting up perfectly lovely cogent arguments. I've read them with much pleasure, and am glad to finally be able to respond.
Blonde.
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 23:10 ET by Timothy HThanks, Blonde. I've been away for a while, but I'm back, and I'm glad so many old friends (you, Unsane, Sarc, misterbill, Jack Bauer, etc.....there are way to many to list them all) are still here, keeping up the great work.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
Timothy,- Some days it's just
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 23:16 ET by BlondeTimothy,
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
As I've told you before, your tagline has always reminded me of horses....so it's with much pleasure that I tell you I've taken up my old sport again.
My friend Rolex, though, is a pretty nice, guy, a beautiful 15 year old black arabian gelding, who never tries to chew through his restraints. Although when we ride on the beach, gets a tad emotional and tries to pitch me in the water.
Truly glad to have you back.
Glad...
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 23:20 ET by Timothy HI'm glad to see your enjoying yourself and your guy. Sadly, I haven't been riding in much too long.
- Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints -
I think you've hit on a goo
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 07:44 ET by WhichWingI think you've hit on a good one there, whatever the result would be.
Yes I imagine they wanted to remain the same
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:19 ET by SportPoliticsYes I imagine they wanted to remain the same, what group of citizens wouldn't want to be ruled by a secular leader when the vast majority are religious zealouts that don't want freedom orsinful American ways, much like the AQ 19 a few of which hated attending those drunken strip bars so much.
What people, other than those types over there we don't understand, wouldn't want the minority religious enemy ruling with an iron fist over 80% of them, throwing them in plastic shredders, chopping off their hands, raping their wives and children, hanging them by their elbows and electrocuting their balls off, disappearing one tenth of their relatives with the sadistic police...
Why what people would be so foolish as to desire an alternative, that they rebelledfor in the Rumsfeld years of the 80's only to be gassed to death with Donny's nod, those people who never sought revolt.
Yes, I cannot imagine a people in a nation one 12th our size, who lost half a million warring their neighbor, the majority of which matched their neighbors majority religious zealout beliefs that don't want western freedom,forceed basically to murder their own as their racist bigotted stalinist opressor dictator got them killed by the barrelful.
I cannot imagine such a people willing to revolt when a large would be friend nearly saved them from more years of opression, waiting just at the border as they rose up again, only to be left hanging.
Yes, I just cannot imagine that nation that left them hanging, having endured a decade of reprisals for leaving in place and supporting a "dictator" by hepling him starve another half million of the those "revolters" - changing their mind after so many derisive remarks about their former failure to take it all the way to freedom...
Yes, mr whichway is your hewad shoved so far up your rear that photons will never reach it, gosh how can I not agree with you ?
Did I mention the body bags on the front porches of the diced up siblings and children and wives and husbands ?
Gee, no group of citizens could ever decide that their secular leadership wasn't working out wonderfully....
I'm pretty sure they wanted, and want islamofascism, like they see in their neightbor there Iran...for a government, all those young people so happy with the new khomeni dictates. It's like yeah, dude WhichWing, you like really, really have a handle on things. All the women there love that crap, 24/7/365.
ROFLMAO OH MAN LIBS ARE STOOOOOOOOOOOOOPID
You appear to become more c
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:19 ET by WhichWingYou appear to become more clueless with every post. You are a fear monger. Once Iran, or anyone for that matter, declares the US a bunch of "Christian Fascists," will you begin the revolt? Just because the administration and the talking heads on tv call it "islamofascism" doesn't make it so. But if your head wasn't shoved so far up Bush's rear that photons would never reach it, you might know that.
Sunday 4 November 1979
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:50 ET by UnsaneWW, are you at all familiar with what happened on 4 November 1979?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Yes, proceed to the point.
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:27 ET by WhichWingYes, proceed to the point.
If that is how Iran treats di
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:23 ET by UnsaneIf that is how Iran treats diplomats and deals with basic diplomatic conventions, just how successful do you think that just talking to them will be?
That question is at the height of common sense...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Maybe we could change their
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 07:35 ET by WhichWingMaybe we could change their regime, again. Cross your fingers and hope for the best!
Their people could have for u
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 13:35 ET by UnsaneTheir people could have for us, had the mullahs played fair. By the way, so good to see you have such deep concern for America's enemies.
Again, if the Iranian government tramples on the most basic diplomatic conventions, how is talking to them going to help? (You don't like answering questions, do you? Typical Leftist.)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I gave you an answer, one I t
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 07:26 ET by WhichWingI gave you an answer, one I thought you'd like. I said we could change the regime, again.
Since you are the one who wan
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 13:22 ET by UnsaneSince you are the one who wants to talk to them to show them just how super-nice we are, what does diplomacy mean to a country that pays lip service to basic diplomatic protocol? (You do not storm embassies and take their staff hostage.)
Their regime could have changed FOR us had the mullahs not taken almost all the reformist candidates' names off the ballot in 2005...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
That's an absolute GEM WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:02 ET by SportPoliticsThat's an absolute GEM WhichWing
beginning {I like the idea of spreading democracy when they want us there.} end [But we started the revolt, not an invading nation. ]
Ahh, so when the Iraqi's REVOLTED, and attempted to unseat their murderous dictator Saddam,which the shining torch of Liberty at the border, promisng the requested assistance, they didn't "indicate that they wanted us there,and they failed the idea of " starting the revolt " .... Ahh, of course,you blibbering liberal goofballs are feckless morons. I quite understand you don't know what the heck you are saying,because it takes me 5 minutes to decode your talking points and place in context with THE TRUTH. I am glad to have DESTROYED your post again. Thank you for that wonderful opportunity.
I guess I was unaware of th
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:11 ET by WhichWingI guess I was unaware of the revolt going on in Iraq before we got there. You go on patting yourself on the back. You are very amusing.
You mean you never factored i
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:54 ET by UnsaneYou mean you never factored in that the Kurds never liked being under Saddam Hussein and used various means to resist his rule (I would too, if he dropped nerve gas on my loved ones)? Or the Shi'a rebellion of March 1991? Or the fact that the Iranians routinely tried to stir up rebellion in southern Iraq?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I see, you feel better abou
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:18 ET by WhichWingI see, you feel better about American bombs being dropped on you than nerve gas.
You're an empty shell WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 21:15 ET by SportPoliticsEmpty WhichWing, a hollow shell of incorrectness.
American bombs better not be
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 22:28 ET by UnsaneAmerican bombs better not be getting dropped on me! I'm in Houston! That will ruin my commute!!!
(Unless TXDoT is experimenting with new and novel ways of demolishing the Katy Freeway...)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
witchwing - Iraq
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 17:10 ET by misterbillwitchwing - Iraq--you could start by shutting your liberal piehole, THEN enlist in the Army and go over and help. Or does your type only sit at a keyboard and criticize those who have to make the decisions????
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
I'll assume you are already
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:48 ET by WhichWingI'll assume you are already enlisted. Or does your type only sit at a keyboard and praise those who make the decisions????
WW...We are left to assume th
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:50 ET by Clear thinkerWW...
We are left to assume that you will NOT be going.
Liberals.... silly people.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
You would be correct to ass
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:52 ET by WhichWingYou would be correct to assume that.
Not doing anything for your c
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:10 ET by UnsaneNot doing anything for your country, and then sitting around and whining about how you are owed by your country for being born, is MUCH easier.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I see what you are saying.
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 07:53 ET by WhichWingI see what you are saying. If you don't enlist in the military, under democratic theory, you have no right to an opinion.
I think you have become too bitter to be rational.
Well WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:41 ET by SportPoliticsWell WhichWing, at least get over there and fight with Al Qaeda in Iraq then. It's the least you could do for the side you claim is correct. Take fatso Michael Moore with you, just think, you can be a minuteman with him. He can cry, scream, tub o blubber run, get shot because he's a huge target, fall on you as you're shrieking and running, and you'll be dead from the crushing weight in one minute.
minutemen.
I suffer from CRS, can you
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:59 ET by WhichWingI suffer from CRS, can you point out to me where I said or implied Al Qaeda was the side that was correct? And take "fatso Michael Moore" with you on your journey.
"I have CRS..."Ar
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:04 ET by MightyMouth"I have CRS..."
Are you sure it's not DNS (don't know shit)?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Could suffer from them both
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:18 ET by WhichWingCould suffer from them both. Can you help him to find where I claimed Al Qaeda was the correct side?
CRS & DNS, a pretty sad
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:30 ET by MightyMouthCRS & DNS, a pretty sad state to be in, ever see the movie Memento? Anyhow, the only thing I have seen from you is that you don't know which is the "correct side". I also see that you don't have any real answers yet you still argue with people here. Makes me wonder if your college major was in Sophistry.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Memento? Hmm, I don't know
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:42 ET by WhichWingMemento? Hmm, I don't know if I've seen it, at least I can't remember seeing it. That CRS or DNS? Who have I said is the "correct side?" Was I right, or wrong? I got real answers, give me a real question. My major was in Sociopathology.
Sociopathology or Sophistry
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:56 ET by MightyMouthSociopathology or Sophistry. There's really not that much of a difference.. is there?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
It's not our fault, WhichWing
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 13:38 ET by UnsaneIt's not our fault, WhichWing, that you continue to show such a deep, impassioned concern for America's enemies...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Well, thank you for summarizi
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:59 ET by UnsaneWell, thank you for summarizing the world in Heinlein's Starship Troopers. I take it you read the novel?
Actually, I am known almost universally for my positive attitude and positive spin on life.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Easter Sunday-- one of my prayers--
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:35 ET by misterbillEaster Sunday-- one of my prayers--is that uninformed people like you get drafted. Uniformed people are informed people. I know there are many (BD and Unsane among them) who would not want to serve with the likes of you, if there were a draft. I am one of those who believes, service, even mandatory, has a profound positive effect on most people. Our volunteers serve with dignity and honor. Throughout history, men and women have put their lives on the line to protect their homeland. During that time frame , many have sat home and enjoyed the safety provided by our young men and women. Most have supported and been grateful to us who have served and are now serving. I served in Korea. I was aboard a battleship.
You, young man, are enjoying that freedom, Unfortunately, you use it to demean our country and our government in your daily posts. I can only hope that one day, somehow, you have the opportunity to realize all that you have been given, by accident of birth, in this great country. In the spirit of Easter, I pray that God enlightens you.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
Bill, the military has been very clear
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:45 ET by RJBill, the military has been very clear that they don't want people like WhichWay.
There's a funny commercial running about some actors who are asked to learn "trust" by falling backwards into the arms of a fellow actor. One woman is not caught by a guy, and she falls to the floor. The instructor asks him "what was that?" He replies, in a California Valley voice, "I was trying to find my motivation?"
Well, there you have the liberal mindset. Would YOU want to be in a position where you had to rely on WhichWay? I wouldn't.
I hear you RJ--but--
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:51 ET by misterbillI hear you RJ--but--I still would like to see a draft and make people like witchwing attend a US history class for one hour each day before he is sent out to perform community services as part of a CCC or WPA draftee. I would never put a person like that in the front where others' lives depended on him. But, I sure wouldn't worry about how good he can plant a tree in a public park or help to build a new dam.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
"History is the vers
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:03 ET by WhichWing"History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon."
Napoleon Bonaparte
WhichWing you libs always quote losers?
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:51 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing you libs always quote French losers?
Is that how you make a point ?
Quote another loser for us, pwease ? One that pulled off a coup d'etat again like BN .
Is that what you libs like, a guy who throws out the government by force and writes himself in as First Counsel ?
Did Bonaparte deliver that famous quote after he won, or after he LOST it all ?
LOL -
sport -- I prefer a much be
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:07 ET by Jack Bauersport -- I prefer a much better quote from a far better man, Sir Winston Churchill...
And he did.
Thanks Jack Bauer
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 14:50 ET by SportPoliticsThanks, that did the trick, and right you are.
I watched a pre-recorded 1 hour show last week on Churchill, they were interviewing his long serving secretary. She recalled the first day on she hadn't been told beforehand to doublespace in typing, not good, and the typewriter was set to singlespace. He bellered - Can't they send me someone who knows how to type !
I guess bureaucracy wasn't any better back then, and it never seems to actually happen like they sometimes show in the movies.
It all worked out, she still had great respect for him and noted he was always a gentleman, all those years, never a slick willie.
...
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 14:56 ET by Jack Bauer.....
sport -- was that one hour f
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 14:57 ET by Jack Bauersport -- was that one hour from the recent 3 parter on Churchill's life?
A fantastic bio of the great man, warts and all. His mother was American you know.
Must have been Jack Bauer
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:57 ET by SportPoliticsMust have been, was on the History Channel I believe. Brought into stark clarity the stated need for a leader in troubled times.
That is what should be shown in the middle schools and high schools.
Sure, I got other ones, suc
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 09:54 ET by WhichWingSure, I got other ones, such as the one below from Frederick Douglass. He was born a slave in 1817 and learned to read and write in secret. He later escaped slavery and went on to become an acclaimed orator, newpaper publisher, abolitionist, and advisor to presidents Lincoln and Grant. Does that mean you will accept that quote? Or will you then go on to say that its typical of a liberal to quote a slave? Why don't you absorb the quote instead of attacking who it came from?
WhichWay, what's the point you're trying to prove
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:11 ET by RJWhichWay, what's the point you're trying to prove with your non-sequitur quotations? What do they have to do with the previous posts? Don't like what was being said and want to shift the conversation?
The post I replied to with
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:24 ET by WhichWingThe post I replied to with the Napoleon quote contained this line:
make people like witchwing attend a US history class for one hour each
day before he is sent out to perform community services as part of a
CCC or WPA draftee.
I thought that quote would show that there is more than one side to every story, even when it comes to history. The other quote speaks for itself.
Sorry WhichWay. I forgot that you're an anti-American conspirac
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:41 ET by RJMy mistake, WhichWay. I forgot that you're an anti-American conspiracy nut who likes "alternative views" of America's history.
There are other countries t
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:46 ET by WhichWingThere are other countries too, and I was referring to "alternative views" of their histories as well.
Sure.
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:02 ET by RJSure.
geez RJ, you just can't be
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 21:45 ET by BlameTheMediageez RJ, you just can't be reasonable in the conversation. whoever WW is, they are winning these disagreements hands down. WW does not revert to name calling and put downs in every sentence, stays on the topic and doesn't deflect... you guys can't even keep up.
loving it.
That, BlameTheMedia
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 23:04 ET by SportPoliticsThat, BlameTheMedia was quite a bowel movement you had on the screen there. Maybe you failed to notice blibbery brain ww can't even keep up with his own "quoteposts", and obviously is incapable of matching anyone except you in this thread.
You people are plain stupid compared to the stock chatters here.
I do know of one smart liberal David Korn. Problem is, he's a lying deceptive scoundrel, with a terrible pokerface. My counsel to him is to keep his puss off the tube, because his smarmy sly smile gives away his just spewed lies that his face shows he is aware of. He has to hold back the snicker.
You however, bowel movement, have just enough wattage to play "immoral supporter", and it's not the least bit convincing. Why do you libs always lie with impunity ? What is the matter with you people ? Are you all low lifes?
No, wait, it's all "a game" to you, so it's not really lying ? We're supposed to just assume you're making a moronic silly blabbering sly crack to score one for the team ? So claiming it is a lie, means I'm just slow ?
Well, any which way, it all comes down to the fact that you're too stupid to even try an argument with the truth, and probably are so brainwashed and dimmed down you can't even formulate what that actually is given a full set of facts.
I am serious. I want you to know that, I'm dead serious. Go lib grog up David Korn so we can get an intelligent liar on here and have a challenge, would ya ?
"I prefer to be true t
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:01 ET by WhichWing"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hand of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence."
Frederick Douglass
Well WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:22 ET by SportPoliticsConcerning your Napoleon quote:
Well WhichWing, because particularly, that quote sounds to me like a big fat excuse for the lib indoctrination and outright lying they've been doing concerning history. I had been their victim, for quite a number of years, since then I never liked history nor payed attention to it.
I found out the left had these wholesale lies they fed to me. Complete and utter distortions, that the libs all agreed upon, but weren't even close to the truth, or even a viewpoint or version from one side or the other. They were complete rewrites, with lies and gigantic missing elements.
So, once again, I specifically hate that quote, because it outlines how the libs lie exactly, and just what they believe. "Reality" and "history" are whatever the libs can make a group of people "agree" upon. It's not the facts, it's not the various elements with the several viewpoints accounted for. It's "the selling of lies".
Now, a good poster pointed out not Chamberlain's babblings, since we're in this thread discussing a war and victory or defeat, but the dude who held it together against all odds and pointed the way toward victory, even when he didn't believe it was probable and even possible at times, but he never caved, he never doubted in public.
A great quote, because a lib would probably think to themselves " That GD neocon warmonger bastard means he's gonna rewrite the history books if he wins" and go on a bender about how the conservative's hero is really a piece of crap...blah blah..blah...
But what that quote really means, is the embodiment of VICTORY, the "writing of the history" is the actual winning of the war - it means so much more than a pen and paper that tells a tale that has passed, with whomever's false perspective used setting it to paper. It means the active pursuit of freedom and maintaining that fight to make sure it is sustained and won, and carries a large warning to all, that if "we" don't make it happen - the enemy will.
It's active brilliance, it's inspirational, it's comprehensive, and it also covers Napoleon's quote entirely, admitting it's existence as a part, a small part, yet washing it asunder since Churchill's quote is so much larger and comprehensive.
I hope you understand now, just how pathetic your Napoleon quote is, and how it amounts to quivering loser propaganda compared to the victory inspiration and cautionary warning quote of Churchill.
Come on Unsane, get him. H
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:36 ET by WhichWingCome on Unsane, get him. He just said he never liked history or payed attention to it.
I'd also like to apologize to SportPolitics for the unsatisfactory quote. Here's another Bush quote that is sure to improve your mood:
"my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the
Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And
now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that
country."
That was said May 1, 2003. Yep, 3 and a half years before the surge that I'm sure you will all defend to the death.
Should I get the speech for you WhichWay ?
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 12:44 ET by SportPoliticsShould I get the speech for you WhichWay ? You're like the tenth liberal who has given me that quote, and of course, the rest of the speech is left out, where Bush says there is a long hard road of reconstruction ahead.
The major fighting operations Bush was talking about was the road to Bagdad and the toppling of the Saddam government.
If you look at the rest of the speech, Bush cautions there is a long hard slog ahead, with many sacrifices and much toil yet to come.
I can understand if that was the only thing he said, and then announced a victory party with ticker tape and 150,000 returning troops, and took a lap down main street, it would make sense, in the way you want it to, like a mornic 3rd grade retarded liberal interpretation.
But declaring the major battle operations over simply meant that Bagdad and the Hussein government had fallen to the shock and awe.
I'm sure the entire speech is still accessible. I'll be back lib idiot.
Yeah, sorry, I should of po
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:25 ET by WhichWingYeah, sorry, I should of posted the entire speech. Did I mention the banner behind him that read "Mission Accomplished"?
Ok, apology accepted WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 17:16 ET by SportPoliticsOk, apology accepted WhichWing.
[ Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision, and speed, and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before
We thank all of the citizens of Iraq who welcomed our troops and joined in the liberation of their own country.
When Iraqi civilians looked into the faces of our servicemen and women, they saw strength, and kindness, and good will. When I look at the members of the United States military, I see the best of our country, and I am honored to be your commander in chief.
In defeating Nazi Germany and imperial Japan, Allied Forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation. Today, we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians.
In the images of celebrating Iraqis, we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement. Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food, and water, and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices. And everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We have begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We are helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. And then we will leave — and we will leave behind a free Iraq. ]
So there you have it WhichWing, your lies exposed again. Good thing you already apologized.
You think he would give tha
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:12 ET by WhichWingYou think he would give that speech again tomorrow? Word for word?
I think WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 23:10 ET by SportPoliticsI think WhichWing, you lied like a moronic 3rd grader, were caught, admitted your idiocy, and now want to head off to the stupid races again.
In other words you already answered your own question, and you don't like the answer, so smarting off about something else will suit your stupidty completely.
Ah, I see you are a dirty noob WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 14:30 ET by SportPoliticsAh, I see you are a dirty noob WhichWing. Above you whined that I should absorb the quote instead of whining about the messenger. But of course, I cleared all doubt from your mind as to wether I had already indeed absorbed the quote, and you were left with the incompetent disctinction in that area.
Instead of appreciating my insights, or being sentient enough to offer decent commentary upon them, you begged your enemy to "get me".
Indeed, your defeat was complete. So then, off to the idiot races you toddled again, with another of your babbling liberal lies, which I have already addressed.
I suppose one could say, "getting me" might have been appropriate if I ignorantly declared histroy has nothing to do with understanding the world around us. Instead I mentioned the fact that you liberals had "gotten me" beforehand, and my interest in history had exposed you as charlatans and liars. So indeed, under what idiotic notion do you think that Unsane would "get me", when I wised up already, did my studying, and rebuked you ignorant propagandizing moronic liberals ?
Is the empty shell of your fantasy becoming apparent to you ?
Have you now, hopefully, with my major assistance, "absorbed" the Napoleon quote you whined I should take heed of ? It would seem so, since afterwards you declared it insufficient, and apologized, before another ignorant issue.
So, in closing, although I'm certain Unsane can help me out, I would not cry for his assistance in "getting you", as you did in the reverse, since I am quite capable of it myself.
BWAHAHAAAAAAA
Is that the liberal media t
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:31 ET by WhichWingIs that the liberal media that has been blasting Pelosi's trip to Syria while keep quiet about the GOP led trip just a few days prior?
Were the Republicans there to
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:06 ET by UnsaneWere the Republicans there to suck up to a despot like Pelosi?
(Don't even say it. I may be Right wing but I tow no party line. Not even the Republicans live up to my political principles...)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I have no idea if the Repub
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 22:48 ET by WhichWingI have no idea if the Republicans were there to suck up to Pelosi, and don't see how it relates if they were.
Well, I meant Assad. A comme
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:28 ET by UnsaneWell, I meant Assad.
A commentator had an interesting question today online. If what the Speaker of the House did was so above board, why is there no transcript available of the meetings? (I bet this is one case where you are extremely happy for the government to hold back information...)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
HILARIOUS!!! Someone bring
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:28 ET by WhichWingHILARIOUS!!! Someone bringing up the lack of transcripts regarding 9/11 would immediately draw your ire. Same with transcripts for Rove, et al. I say release 'em all, starting with Pelosi's.
Um, what transcripts about 9/
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 22:32 ET by UnsaneUm, what transcripts about 9/11/01 HAVEN'T been released?
It never ceases to amaze me how much you passionately hate and fear your own government, yet Bashar Assad and Saddam Hussein are/were OK with you.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You might be right, I can't
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 08:14 ET by WhichWingYou might be right, I can't name a transcript that hasn't been released. But I can name one that was never made. Bush and Cheney in front of the 9/11 commission. I'm going to keep showing you the other side of the coin, don't you think there were people in Iraq asking fellow citizens why they distrusted Saddam?
Here's some capital letters for you. PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT I HATE MY COUNTRY AND GOVERNMENT. I know I can disagree with my wife without hating her. Why can't I do the same with my country/gov't?
You DO hate your country and
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 13:29 ET by UnsaneYou DO hate your country and your government. Does it bother you to know that I understand that you hate your country and your government? You have demonstrated again, and again, and again, on this post and elsewhere on NB that you have deeper, more intense concern for America's enemies than for America. What else am I supposed to conclude?
Not to mention that you firmly believe with all your heart that your own country perpetrated 9/11/01.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I DO NOT HATE MY COUNTRY.
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 07:43 ET by WhichWingI DO NOT HATE MY COUNTRY. DO NOT. DO NOT. If I did, then I would not object to the things that I think are straying from our ideals. Let me decide what I hate. You fail to understand that in a democracy, that you claim to cherish, you have the right to disagree without having to despise. And as far as 9/11, at the very least, the gov't let it happen in order to further it's own agenda.
A nice contradictory post the
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 18:48 ET by UnsaneA nice contradictory post there. You don't hate your country, yet you believe the most vile things about your own government. I guess it is easier and more comforting to believe that Bush is the most Hyper-Evil Bastard on earth than it is to know that 19 hijackers carried out terrorist attacks on the United States on their timetable.
Again, petulant one, you DO hate your country, and have more compassion and concern for America's enemies than your own country. You demonstrate this each and every single time you post, again, and again, and again.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You hate democracy. Go ahe
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 08:01 ET by WhichWingYou hate democracy. Go ahead and try to deny that. If someone doesn't agree with you or the government then they are unpatriotic in your eyes. Pathetic. You hate our freedoms more than the terrorists.
Pathetic Whining
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:07 ET by UnsaneI actually DO prefer representative republics like this one over pure democracies. (Am I to take it that democracy to WhichWing means he can post with 1000% impunity, with ZERO criticism?) And I hate freedom? Not so. I have no ability to usurp you ability (no, you have NO right to post here, actually, as I don't have one either, nor anyone else) to post, and nor would I even if I did. I have always been a firm believer in letting people make fools of themselves if the so desire. By the way, unlike you I have taken an oath of office to support and defend the Constitution, our source of representative democracy, three times. You won't even do it once, because you don't believe in the nation enough to do it; wanting to pick and choose your battles like Paine's "summertime soldiers and sunchine patriots".
What a pathetic whine. You are just crying like a three-year-old that someone would DARE call you on your beliefs.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
This skinny post is dumb, c
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 07:52 ET by WhichWingThis skinny post is dumb, can we agree on that? I'll post my reply as a new comment.
Some clarification for WhichWIng
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:08 ET by UnsaneActually, misterbill has already earned his stripes and has immeasurable respect from me: he served in the Navy during the Korean War. If memory serves he was sent on over to Korea.
As for me, I have been a commissioned active duty officer and now serve in the Reserves.
Maybe you'd be better off not shooting off your mouth before you have all the information in front of you.
So, when do you enlist?
I don't. Would you fight f
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:17 ET by WhichWingI don't. Would you fight for something you didn't believe in? That would be silly wouldn't it? (Before you try to turn that into something else, I'm only saying I don't believe in the war in Iraq.)
Believe in the USA and the real WOT WhichWing ?
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 13:42 ET by SportPoliticsWell you liberals can go to Afghanistan WhichWing, you know, and fight for the real war on terror, the one Bush forgot about and abandoned according to you.
Why don't you sign up for that ? Isn't that the real war on terror according to you people ?
I mean let's face it, with 2.38 million American military, your chances of being in Iraq, especially when you're a noob aren't good at all.
Go try to make friends with someone in the military by never telling the truth, and maybe you could find out what MOS you need so you wind up just in Afghanistan, if even in a war zone. Something to do with rapelling and mountain climbing should do it.
Now get to it " the right war" liberal spewbag. Hussle, hussle patriotic supporter ...
Oh by the way, since you're not for the Iraq war, you're for the enemy in that case, so you could always pull a Jhonny Walker, unless you'd prefer your unstated Afghanistan option. Heck, there's lots of places to go in our uniform. Before Iraq you liberals whined shriekd and moaned that we have 125 bases worldwide(no doubt that number is up with all those scarey hegemony bases in Iraq you libs claim are being built for us to occupy forever) and we occupy most of the nations of the earth. Ya think I'd have forgotten how you libs whined about the 125 bases allover the place before the Iraq war was on ? Ha !
So, get a move on son, you got your patriotism to attend to.
"Oh by the way, since
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:42 ET by WhichWing"Oh by the way, since you're not for the Iraq war, you're for the enemy
in that case, so you could always pull a Jhonny Walker, unless you'd
prefer your unstated Afghanistan option."
And there is the problem with this administration and you folks on the right. You think that if someone doesn't approve of everything, then they approve of nothing and are firmly planted on the side of the enemy.
Not at all, I left the option open for you in Afg. WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 17:28 ET by SportPoliticsNot at all, I left the option open for you in Afg. WhichWing.
So off to Afghanistan is it ? Or how about just service ? Not likely you'll end up in Iraq.
You could free up a spot by taking service resonsibilities over for someone that believes in it and goes, a more experienced patriot.
Whattaya say ? I've put out the feelers, now where to stand, or not ?
Come on, be a man and tell me. "I wouldn't go to Afghanistan either. or - I would. - or - I'll take a stateside jockey so someone more worthy can go do the tough stuff."
Come on, what else is anyone supposed to conclude if you " free speechers" never say where you actually stand ?
Isn't that the REAL PROBLEM ? Not really the administration at all, or their supporters. You guys leave the page BLANK, so of course, what is anyone likely to conclude ? You know EXACTLY where you leave everyone.
Your option was "you a
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:12 ET by WhichWingYour option was "you are with us or you or against us" and that's just plain ridiculous. I've already made clear that I have no intention, or desire to enlist in the military. Feel that all you want. You so vigorously argue for the current policies and wars, you go enlist. Why would you tell someone who disagrees with you to go fight for what you believe in?. Fight all you want, and gripe about the damn liberals and the left wing media the whole time.
Fortunately for you there are
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:44 ET by UnsaneFortunately for you there are some of us who think there are some things worth fighting for in this world.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Yes, I am lucky to have those
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 22:54 ET by WhichWingYes, I am lucky to have those of you who promote pre-emptive policies and then tell me how fortunate I am that you are willing to fight the fight that you started.
I know that you are a complet
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:31 ET by UnsaneI know that you are a complete idiot when it comes to history, but do you perchance remember what happened on 2 August 1990 to Kuwait?
Seems this was not a fight we started...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
"Or does your type only sit "
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:51 ET by misterbill"Or does your type only sit at a keyboard and praise those who make the decisions????"
Sadly young man there is great truth in your statement. I am no longer able to serve, at least in the capacity in which I would care to serve. I have taken the liberty of emboldening the word "praise". I do not always praise, I often criticize, but always respect the responsibilty and action of those who make the decisions. I may even disagree with the decisions, but that is easy sitting in an armchair. I sincerely thank God that you are not one of those making the decisions You are a Pelosi like creature. If God had given me the gift to protect those I wanted to protect and to omit people like you I would gladly have done so. You are not fit to shine the boots of those who protect us. You use your arguments to hide the heart of a coward. You cringe and cower behind the mask of an alias on this site. You would not, will not and cannot stand and defend our country. One needs a spine, not a yellow streak in the back to do so.
One of my nephew's is Connecticut's most decorated veterans. Another served in Desert Storm. Would to God I was forty years younger, I would go to help those who now help me.
If I were your relative I would be mortally shamed by your attitude. My tagline describes you.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
We seem to have one fundame
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 17:06 ET by WhichWingWe seem to have one fundamental disagreement. I thought we lived in a free country, one that allowed us many opinions and views, and the ability to disagree with the government's actions. You, in fact, served to protect that right. Now you are sorry that I have that right because I don't agree with you.
This little gem might be one of the least Christian things you could say while still including the word God: "If God had given me the gift to protect those I wanted to protect and to omit people like you I would gladly have done so."
I would think your tagline would be more appropriate if we were fighting for this land, in which case you'd get no resistance from me.
Hey he has a right to his opinion of you WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 17:43 ET by SportPoliticsHey he has a right to his opinion of you WhichWing. Free speech doesn't stop when our Constitution and Military create and defend it, and you libs speak your mind.
It continues AFTER youlibs speak your mind, and the REST of the America, the VAST MAJORITY then gets to say exactly what they think of you.
That's THEIR free speech, as well, mr lib.
Now, what's your free speech answer, to wether or not you would go to Afghanistan and fight, or not, and wether you would sign up for stateside so a hungry patriot could be freed up to go fight ?
WHERE are you mr " express your opinion ? "
So, we are to completely diss
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:35 ET by UnsaneSo, we are to completely dissolve the United States military UNTIL we are attacked? We are just supposed to wait around and do NOTHING until we are attacked?
You are at odds with this statement...but then, I am sure the idea of NATO was/is completely horrifying to you.
"When we protect the freedom of Berlin, we protect the freedom of London and New York as well." - John F. Kennedy, 35th President of the United States (1917-1963)
So, we are to completely di
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 08:31 ET by WhichWingSo, we are to completely dissolve the United States military UNTIL we
are attacked?
You just want me to say that I want to dissolve, dismantle, destroy our military don't you? I've already said that we don't disagree on the need for a military, we just disagree on how it should be used.
We are just supposed to wait around and do NOTHING until
we are attacked?
Isn't that exactly what happened?
...and now that we are on the
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:09 ET by Unsane...and now that we are on the offensive (as we should be), you whine.
Perhaps you should make up your mind on what exactly you want before we discuss this any further. I think you are having great difficulty in that arena.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Mewling and whining about "attacks"
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 23:51 ET by UnsaneI am attacking your views. They deserve to be attacked. Instead of whining about that, perhaps you should re-evaluate the way you think, or not bother sharing your opinions here.
I don't decide your views and opinions. I read them, believe it or not, and I comment on them. If you are too sensitive or thin-skinned to accept that people will do that, maybe posting on NewsBusters isn't for you.
You are not exempt from criticism here. All "civil discussion" means to you is that you monologue without any criticism whatsoever. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You don't decide my views and
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:45 ET by WhichWingYou don't decide my views and opinions??
And all the Leftists in the world, like yourself, favored intervention in a civil war that would not serve America's interests
Of course, I AM talking to a Leftist whose vision of the United States
is of a whiny, toothless, powerless nation that defers ALL foreign
policy decisions to the Champs Elysees and Tiananmen Square; a nation
that instead coddles, spoils, and nannies its entire population into
oblivion.
But then, I am talking to an adolescent who hates the idea of the
United States being a superpower, who desperately wants it turned into
a whiny, toothless, powerless Nanny State...
you hate Bush because he is NOT a coddling babysitter as you demand Presidents be, you being a good Leftist.
You are responding to WhichWing, who is infinitely more concerned for
America's popularity around the world rather than its interests and
national security.
He also craves the idea of a pathetically weakened America
Looks like you are trying to decide my views and opinions, doesn't it?
Well, let's see here, WhichWi
Sun, 04/08/2007 - 13:17 ET by UnsaneWell, let's see here, WhichWing. You are horrified that the United States of America projects power all over the world to defend its interests. That is definitely a Left-wing thing.
The alternative to the United States having its own policy and interests is turning it over to someone else. You love the idea of a powerless United States. You must, or else you wouldn't be spending much time talking about how the United States is looked upon as this evil nation, comparable to the Nazis and the Soviets for that horrible act of removing dictators from power.
Typically, Leftists love the idea of the government having complete, total, direct control of our lives. Having a powerful military gets in the way of the government being a Nanny.
Again, keep on screaming and crying like a 3-year old because you have been caught red handed.
And will you STOP being so ashamed of what you believe?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You make a good point, agai
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 08:14 ET by WhichWingYou make a good point, again. The whole world hates the Swiss because of their foreign policy and they want to take over their country because it looks like it would be easy. Canada too.
And if you recall, I didn't compare the US to Nazi Germany, I asked how long it would be until we would be compared to the Nazi's if we followed your theories.
I also like that you use the phrase "defend our interests" to justify our actions anywhere in the world. I just hope Iran doesn't take an interest in our corn fields.
I don't worry about Iran taki
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:17 ET by UnsaneI don't worry about Iran taking an interest in our corn fields. If they were to, I would do what I could to see to it that Tehran reaches 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit. They know that we will do this, so they stay the hell away.
But of course, you whine in the language of moral relevism. Yawn. I much prefer a world where the United States, the beacon for freedom and liberty around the world, gets to call the shots. The Stars and Stripes aren't waving because of the kindness of other countries' hearts, regardless of what you want to believe.
Of course, in your happy little world, if the Iranians did that, would you 1) turn over Iowa to them scot-free as long as the PROMISE not to take any more land? Or 2) Would you beg them to "pretty please go away?"
I see you admire Canada's and Switzerland's foreign policy. As well you should. Both countries are Going Nowhere, and you cannot wait for the United States to do the same thing. Seriously, is there ANY country in the world that cares about what Canada and Switzerland think about anything? By contrast, everyone cares whenever the United States takes notice of anything.
Give me the United States any day.
And thank you for showing your true colors. By celebrating Canada and Switzerland's examples, it is clear to me you desperately want to be coddled and nurtured in the arms of a massive Nanny State.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
"I much prefer a world
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 23:06 ET by WhichWing"I much prefer a world where the United States, the beacon for freedom and liberty around the world, gets to call the shots." So what about the freedom and liberty that you call the shots for? Your statement contradicts itself before it concludes.
"By contrast, everyone cares whenever the United States takes notice of anything." They care because they want to know if we intend to invade their country or overthrow their government in order to server our interests.
You say that Canada and Switzerland are going nowhere. Just where should they be going, and do they really need to get there? Where are we going?
Congratulations on managing to use the word "coddled" once again. You getting a nickel each time you use it or something?
You Lose The Argument
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:54 ET by UnsaneWhy, thank you, WhichWing, for losing the argument on the last sentence. If the only thing you have left to do is to criticize my word selection and my speech patterns, you are done. That tells me that you cannot find anything substantive to fire back with. But, that is a typical Leftist for you.
Sad to say, my statement does not contradict itself, but you are willfully completely ignorant of history. Because the United States called the shots in Western Europe and put the Soviets on notice that they were not to roll their tanks into West Germany or elsewhere outside their sphere of influence, the people of Western Europe were free to choose whatever government they wished, and whatever way of governance suited them. They even had the right to vote in coddling Nanny State governments, even though this made them even more reliant upon the United States for their defense.
Silly WhichWing, if nations and their governments learn to behave themselves, we don't invade them or overthrow them. Hugo Chavez is hard at work oppressing his people and impoverishing Venezuela, and I don't see the military making a move down there...but of course, your brain is too saddled with emotion to see that simple reality.
Canada and Switzerland can be in the ranks of the more powerful and dynamic societies on the planet, like the United States and many up and coming nations in Asia. But they'd rather coddle, spoil, nanny, pamper, and babysit their populations to the point where they do not matter in the world. Canada can barely deploy its own military to its beloved UN peacekeeping missions (but that will change because the Conservative government of Stephen Harper ordered four C-17s) because they let their military get neglected. Why is that? Because they know that if they get in any sort of trouble, all they need to do is cry to the United States to help them.
Where is the United States going? No thanks to whiny spoiled brats like yourself, it is on the cutting edge of civilizations. It has the largest and most advanced economy in the world, and people around the world are emulating our institutions or trying to follow America's example because they see what is possible when you set your people free to do whatever their passions dictate. (Of course, since you so desperately want to believe the absolute worst about the United States, that will all fly over your head.)
And the United States does not exist because of the kindness of other people's hearts. It exists because its place in the world had to be fought for (gasp!) and earned (gasp!).
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Two more nickels, well play
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 07:53 ET by WhichWingTwo more nickels, well played.
Your commitment to losing the
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:09 ET by UnsaneYour commitment to losing the argument is noted.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
"he says it is only a matter
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 23:26 ET by TexasOptimist"he says it is only a matter of time before the United States is looked at like Hitler's Germany."
...Or Blair's Britain, in the wake of the recent "kidnappings."
George W. Bush is not a conservative, but I still support his presidency. I'd rather have him as president than ANY of the Democrats.
Merry Christmas 2007.
I notice those qoutes have
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 08:51 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsI notice those quotes have no link to any factual news source. Please prove your "quotes" are real, then, if they are not made up or taken out of context, they can be debunked.
D
A day without NewsBusters is like a day without sunshine.
“I think it’s also impo
Sat, 04/07/2007 - 18:34 ET by WhichWing“I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
George W. Bush - from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer on June 5, 1999.
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
George W. Bush - from The Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999
Perhaps you could show us the
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:21 ET by UnsanePerhaps you could show us the entire articles.
That is, if you are not afraid. I can rip a sentence out of any book and completely turn its context on its head too.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I've provided you with the so
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 22:37 ET by WhichWingI've provided you with the source and the dates, get what you need from there. If you find that the quotes were not representative of Bush's stance, then let us all know.
No, WhichWing, be intellectua
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:39 ET by UnsaneNo, WhichWing, be intellectually honest and provide the whole damn thing. You want to bark orders at me? I'll yell them right back.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
No, I stand by what I alrea
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 07:47 ET by WhichWingNo, I stand by what I already said. I don't demand anything from you. I provided the quotes, someone wanted to know where they came from so I provided that as well. If you want "the whole damn thing" then go get it. And lighten up a little.
Typical Leftist: allergic to
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:12 ET by UnsaneTypical Leftist: allergic to intellectual honesty. He just can't bring himself to show the whole quote, and when called on it, he demands that HE get proven wrong.
You can't stand by what you said if you are going to insist in being scared in showing your source material.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Prove me wrong! Do it! I
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 08:24 ET by WhichWingProve me wrong! Do it! I showed you where the quote came from. Go get the rest of his words from that day, week, or month, whatever you need. You are so sure that I'm misleading you, then show everyone how deceitful I am.
I never thought asking for a
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:12 ET by UnsaneI never thought asking for a little intellectual honesty would provoke such a temper tantrum...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 18:53 ET by WhichWingYeah, that's EXACTLY what I expected. You were insinuating that I was taking these quotes out of context and demanded to know where they came from. So I posted again letting you know the papers they were printed in, and on what dates. That didn't satisfy you, so you returned to demand that I post the entire speech. I will do no such thing. As I said before, if you are so sure I am being deceitful, then show us all. Dates and papers above. Show everybody how much I lie. Let them all know what Bush really meant. In fact, if you can show that I misled people here about the message Bush was trying to convey in those quotes then I will post here no more. That should be tempting enough, right?
Sheesh. When playing poker,
Mon, 04/23/2007 - 00:19 ET by UnsaneSheesh. When playing poker, and you are asked to show your hand, do you throw that much of a fit?
Whenever I quote anything, I take as much out of the article as possible, or at least try to set it in terms of context. But then, unlike you, I possess intellectual honesty.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Yes
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 18:26 ET by Mr. BishopI definitely disagree with your assessment.
Why were we in Kosovo, do you know why? What reasons given, were any different to that of Iraq? Weapons of Mass Destruction was a reason given, albeit not a major one. Genocide and crimes against humanity were other reasons, and the main reasons at that. When did the conflict in Kosovo end? When was a relatively peaceful existance established in Kosovo? Are we still IN Kosovo, Bosnia, etc.?
You would view Bush as a hypocrite on the subject matter of an "exit strategy", and to that I would disagree with your definition of what it means. Your definition would be one of cutting out and running away. My definition of an exit strategy is one that has been used for many generations of warfare: Strategic withdrawal after an objective has been accomplished. My exit strategy is us removing our troops when the Iraqis can defend themselves. Your exit strategy is us abandoning the war on terror, and simply coming home, for that is what would happen if we were to simply leave, and let the Iraqis fend for themselves.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
Terrorists Heart Dems
Fri, 04/06/2007 - 03:19 ET by Sua Sponte 75Terroists Excited About Dems in Congress (HT MPJ)
The latest Michael Totten dispatch from Kurdistan. They fear that if we leave they will be attacked from all sides.
“As a military person, I am disturbed by what is going on in America now,” he said and jabbed his finger in the air. “They want to withdraw their troops.” He banged his fist on his desk. “We want the Americans to stay. Why are people thinking like this?” ...
“I want you, as a reporter, as a journalist,” the general said to me, “to get our Kurdish voice to the American people so they know about Kurdish suffering in Iraq. We don’t want the American army to leave this area. The terrorists are excited about what is going on in the Congress.” ...
“What do you think will happen,” I said, “if the United States withdraws from Iraq next year?”
“It will be easier for terrorists to attack us,” the general said. “We are surrounded by enemies. They will attack Kurdistan from everywhere. We believe, as Kurds, it is not honorable for Americans to withdraw. It will be bad for Americans, too. They will be killing themselves. If Americans leave us we expect terrorists will reach the American country very soon.” ....
“We believe if the Americans withdraw from this country there will be many more problems,” he said. “The Sunni and Shia want total control of Iraq. We are going to get involved in that. Iran is going to be involved in that. Turkey is going to be involved in that. Syria is going to be involved in that. The Sunni and Shia fighting in Baghdad will pull us in. We are going to be involved. Turkey and Iran will make problems for us. It is not going to be safe. All the American martyrs will have died for nothing, and there will be more problems in the future. Americans should build big bases here.” ...
“There are two kinds of love,” he said. “The kind between a man and a woman. And the kind between people and nations. Americans are beheaded in Baghdad. But they are welcome in Kurdistan.”
In Other News…….......................
What's A Leftist To Do?
I thought Iraq was invaded for the oil?
This is rich:
Despite claims by some critics that the Bush administration invaded Iraq to take control of its oil, the first contracts with major oil firms from Iraq's new government are likely to go not to U.S. companies, but rather to companies from China, India, Vietnam, and Indonesia.
Vietnam? VIETNAM? Is there a Halliburton office there?
This is even richer:
Rosy estimates even have Iraq producing 6 million barrels a day in the long term, which would make it the world's No. 4 producer behind Russia, Saudi Arabia and the United States.
Yeah, you read that right. The United States is among the top 3 oil producers in the world.
So, Bush invaded Iraq to steal the oil from what could possibly be the 4th largest producer of oil in the world, trailing the United States, which, last time I checked, Nancy Pelosi was president of.
Er, well, you get it.
"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"
To have an exit strategy victory must be achieved. We and the Iraqi people are winning despite what the administration haters and MSM want you to believe. Not sure who to believe? Easy fix, come on over.......
"Our president seems v
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:47 ET by MightyMouth"Our president seems very opposed to timetables."
One would not have to read any further to know whats coming. The gist: "The president opposes an Iraq timetable for withdrawing troops. I will bring up a completely unrelated conflict where he does support timetables" Ergo: Bush is a liar and an Idiot!
IMHO, the orginator of this forum topic has proven him/herself to be rather foolish in trying to associate something GWB said 8 years ago concerning another conflict to the war in Iraq. Also note that both examples given were pre-911 and were referring to a completly different situation. The WORST thing is that I spent 10 minutes of finite hearbeats in this response. Time and heartbeats I will NEVER get back!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I forgot how much you all c
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 10:53 ET by WhichWingI forgot how much you all cling to your pre-911 and post-911 rhetoric. I think the situations in which he approves of timetables are the ones he's campaigning against.
I'll agree with you on one point. I also wish you had not spent the 10 minutes on that response.
No youdidn't WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 11:55 ET by SportPoliticsWhichWing, the first falseline you have of Bush up there is something he has already addressed, repeatedly. The exit strategy is training the Iraqi forces up to speed and slowly allowing them to take over operations against the terrorist insurgency.
That's the exit strategy. It has been stated endlessly, and liberals still claim there isn't one.
On your second complaint, the thing that has changed, other than what Unsane pointed out ( indicating no support from the EU in this case ) is the nature of this insurgency, which is drawing a major amount of it's strength from outside the nation of Iraq, and from terrorists with a pan arabia vision, therefore announcing a timetable is not correct in this case, noone to takeover the operations and many regional and ultraregional players mucking up the works.
A timetable CAN be announced, once enough control over the insurgency is established. Prior to that, a timetable is a declaration of defeat.
In other words, the security of Iraq cannot be handled currently by the Iraqi forces alone, and it appears that there isn't a date certain where that indication of control is will be stout enough that confidence in leaving on a timed basis is reasonable considering the value of the staying power in allowing the 30 years oppressed, twice abandoned,and still shakey on their feet populace to regain a measure of confidence in the ultimate conclusion to their efforts.
A timetable in this case, loses hearts and minds, to a very large degree, and this is indeed a unique situation, not foreseen in 1999, not predicted even as the war ensued, or in the immediate aftermath.
Doesn't an insurgency take 8-10 years to quell, at least by historical standards ? So, there appears to be a sort of timetable, but the quivering kneed leftists likely prevent the already known conditions and length of stay - discussed enough that people have heard it several times, a very dangerous politcal card to openly profess here in liberal crybaby land.
I think that's the truth.
I also think the Iraqi forces are coming online, in a much beter way, because the crybaby lib press hasn't been whining about it lately. Youknow when the lib press isn't whining about something, it's going well.
I also saw a lib press report about power being handed over to the Iraqi NG in some big name Iraq city just yesterday. They characterized it as a "homegrown celebration" and an arrogant styled "booting" of the coalition, as if it was a victory agains the USA.
LOL - That was indicative of much more than just the Iraqi forces doing well, but that change in the newspeak lib msm angle and tempo of the story told me this: Even the Bush hating press has confidence in that Iraqi battalion, because they no longer whined that they were poorly trained and incapable, but had to recede to the hate Bush and the USA point of "booting the dang coalition fromthe city with cheers"... ( kinda like the fantasy of "taking back the White House", or "taking our country back" that the massively overblown partisan traitor lying dems spew )
So, yeah there are indicators, and that's a good one, seeing how the babbling lib press does their hate America angle...
Are you emailed updated tal
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:45 ET by WhichWingAre you emailed updated talking points daily or weekly? You might be in the majority on this website, but you are in the minority in this country when it comes to your outlook on Iraq.
Those are my thoughts WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 17:33 ET by SportPoliticsThose are my thoughts WhichWing, especially my take on the press handover the city account.
I guess sometimes I should WRITE the talking points, since that particular one simply occurred to me, on it's factual basis alone. Gotta give NB some credit for showing me the ropes, so to speak.
Gosh, thanks for the compliment.
That comment from the king of
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:34 ET by UnsaneThat comment from the king of talking points...
Damn! I didn't realize you spoke for the majority of Americans!!! When were you appointed?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Find me a recent poll where
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 22:31 ET by WhichWingFind me a recent poll where a majority is shown to support the Iraq War. I won't even question a Fox News poll if you come up with one. Go on, I'll wait here.
Are you claiming to speak for
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 10:12 ET by UnsaneAre you claiming to speak for the majority of Americans, yes, or no?
Polls are almost always BS anyways. Ask President Dewey.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
NO, I am not claiming to be s
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:37 ET by WhichWingNO, I am not claiming to be speaking for the majority of Americans, nor have I.
You say "Polls are almost always BS anyways" and then cite an example from the 40's? You claim to not believe any of the polls that say Americans are against this war, yes, or no?
On polls
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 22:41 ET by UnsaneI cited an example from the 1940s...about how polls are BS, yes. Want a more recent example?
In 2002, French pollsters confidently predicted that the second round of voting for President would be between Chirac and Jospin. Not so. It seems many in France concealed their admiration for Le Pen and his National Front party. When the first round vote was held, many were shocked to see that it would be Le Pen and Chirac in the second round - not Jospin.
Opinion polls showed the BJP winning another election in Indian parliamentary elections in 2004. Many were shocked to see that the Congress party in fact won.
Need more? Polls can be easily manipulated, and people can lie to pollsters. They cannot be trusted. But then, I am talking to one who passionately believes that in order for there to be peace, the United States military MUST be dismantled, and that an evil conspiracy destroyed the WTC towers, not terrorists.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Go ahead, keep making up st
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 07:43 ET by WhichWingGo ahead, keep making up stuff that I supposedly believe. Maybe if you continue to believe that I believe the things you say that I believe, it will become the truth. Doubtful, but you can dream.
How you scream like a discipl
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:15 ET by UnsaneHow you scream like a disciplined child when caught...
It isn't my fault that you routinely take the side of America's enemies, that you cling to your 9/11/01 conspiracy theory like religion, and that you seem to have a great deal of contempt for the military. Does a post where you indicate "my way of supporting the troops is writing my Congressman to bring them home" sound familiar?
Note that you whined at me that "I hate democracy" and "hate freedom more than the terrorists". I just refuted those points instead of pouting as you choose to do.
You ridiculed my example for being from the 1940s, and I showed you more modern examples. I guess whining is much easier than dealing with the lesson.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
It isn't my fault that you
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 08:18 ET by WhichWingIt isn't my fault that you routinely take the side of America's
enemies, that you cling to your 9/11/01 conspiracy theory like
religion, and that you seem to have a great deal of contempt for the
military. Does a post where you indicate "my way of supporting the
troops is writing my Congressman to bring them home" sound familiar?
First, I don't take the side of America's enemies. I may play devil's advocate on occasion, but I have never defended their actions. Second, I don't cling to my 9/11 conspiracy like religion, but I certainly do question the account put forth by the government. It's our responsibility to not follow blindly.
Finally, I do recall that post (wish it hadn't been lost), and you still fail to see what I was saying. You demanded my opinion on that subject. Yes, demanded. I posted a question without offering an opinion and that drove you nuts. And you misquoted me. After offering a few answers to the question of "What does 'Support the Troops' mean to you?" I included this: "And, in my case, it means contacting my congressman and asking for his help in bringing them home." Notice that it said "in my case" because it was my opinion. I didn't imply that that was the correct answer, because, as I said previously in that post, there is no right or wrong answer to that question. That response does not equate to contempt for the military, so please don't mislead people (or yourself) about what I said or meant
There is an extremely thin li
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:19 ET by UnsaneThere is an extremely thin line between not following blindly and self-delusion. You have long since crossed over into the territory of self-delusion.
There is no attempt to mislead people...I have an opinion on what you said, and my opining as a Reservist officer is that you hate the mission, and the troops, and your asking your Congressman for his help in bringing the troops home is a slap in the face to me. You need to deal with that simple fact.
There IS a difference between playing devil's advocate and open advocacy for the enemy. You have repeatedly crossed the line there. I don't engage in such games for very long, if at all, for the only nation's interests that matter are those of my country, the United States of America. If other nation's interests coincide with ours, great. If not...oh well...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Unsane's daily accusations
Tue, 04/24/2007 - 08:31 ET by WhichWingUnsane's daily accusations of supporting the enemy and hating the troops, nothing to see here. More of the "national interests, others be damned" theory on foreign policy. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
Please show me in my oath of
Thu, 04/26/2007 - 00:53 ET by UnsanePlease show me in my oath of office where it says anything about worrying about other nation's national interests. Last I checked, it did have a phrase about "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."
I don't see anything there about worrying about what Tehran thinks.
I don't see anything there about showing concern for China's feelings.
I don't see anything there about seeking the permission of Brussels, Strasbourg, or the Champs Elysees to do anything to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I don't see a mention of the UN Charter there either.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Well, without going into all
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 12:11 ET by dmntd1Well, without going into all of the very sane and thoughtful answers you've been provided, WW, your final question can be answered thusly:
Bush was elected President of the United States.
See, THAT was a major change in his life, one that has undoubtedly come with new points of view, intel reports and knowledge of what he is facing.
I think if you look back in the history of the USA, you'll find that the only wars for which we had exit strategies are those we lost, or those we won, but had to go back in and re-fight. Germany? back in, refought after WW1... stayed in after WW2. France? Italy? Japan? Korea? VietNam... left/lost...
Are you saying we should leave Iraq as losers, or with the clear intent of having to go back in there in the future?
Please make sure your train of thought carries freight.
Why is that no one on here
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:39 ET by WhichWingWhy is that no one on here is concerned about our image in the world until it comes to being looked at as "losers"??
Because we have no control
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:45 ET by MightyMouthBecause we have no control over what other countries think. Look man, we have, and still continue to save EVERYONES ass on a regular bases. But yet they all want more, more more!
Screw em! No matter what we do, the US will be pigs to the world, even though most of them want to come here. Figure that one out Einstein!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Why don't you figure out ho
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:51 ET by WhichWingWhy don't you figure out how you can say that most of them want to come here and they all hate us at the same time?
Well they seem to say they
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 15:58 ET by MightyMouthWell they seem to say they don't like the American guberment, but they like the American people. Maybe they don't get the concept of government by the people?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
So they like the American p
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 16:16 ET by WhichWingSo they like the American people, but not the American government. I agree, I think that is likely the case. But why don't they like the government? I'd disagree on the idea of them disliking the concept of government by the people. Maybe it's our foreign policy? They don't complain about our drugs, or our murder rate, or our incarceration rate (highest in the world), or our immigration policy, or any of the things we as a nation want to address. What does that leave?
We could have the best of intentions throughout the world, but they have to be perceived that way by the world. It has to be expected that some will question the agenda we have, and that agenda should be made clear and adhered to. Putting half the world on the defensive by declaring "you are either with us, or you are against us" is not a good way to begin.
So what are you saying &quo
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 16:24 ET by MightyMouthSo what are you saying "world preception" is everything? Look, you can't make forgien policy trying to figure out how to appease the world. You have to make forigen policy based on the best intrests of YOUR country! Thats exactlly what every other country does. But no, you liberal bleeding hearts, think the US should look like and be some leader towards the great new world order. Hogwash!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I thought we were getting s
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 16:48 ET by WhichWingI thought we were getting somewhere, but you had to fall back on 'you liberal this and that'. What you don't understand is that what is best for OUR country is not ALWAYS what is best for THEIR country. And that is the issue they have with our foreign policy, like it or not.
WhichWing
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:01 ET by SportPoliticsThe reason you never get anywhere, is because you rarely saying anything that everyone else isn't KEENLY aware of already.
For instance, as you whine about our foreign policy, your type NEVER seems to point out all it's terrible provisions.
I've heard that "it's our foreign policy" for 30 years now, but of course "Iraq !!!!" is the ONLY whine I've actually heard in the full last six years, besides " WE have nukes why can't DPRK and Iran have them ?"
That's it bubba. Now, should I take in the standard whine ten thusand more times, because I'm sure I will, and I will have absolutely no more idea what the hell it means than the very first time I heard it, because no factual data like information is ever provided. Just a kind of bland " it's our foreign policy, stupid!"
Yeah, after ten thousand of those, I can tell you who I think is stupid, and it ain't me and mine.
I seriously do not think a single one of you can actually explain it to me, so that I have something to sink my outrage into. If you could, you would have already.
Am I correct,or what ?
I'm already tired of your o
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:57 ET by WhichWingI'm already tired of your outrage and will decline to respond to your rants in the future. You can declare victory if it helps, but I'm going to leave this thread for MightyMouth to respond too.
On what international relations are
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:30 ET by UnsaneInternational relations, my whiny friend, is "one country screwing another". End of story. That being said...
I do not care what is in the best interests of any other nation in the world other than the United States of America. If you can show me where Iran, China, or any other nation you wish to choose from has electoral votes and representatives in Congress, by all means, do so. Until then, I do not care what is in the best interests of any other nation in the world other than the United States of America. (If it satisfies the interests of our allies, great. If not...oh well...)
See, I LIKE the idea of the United States being on top, and of the United States securing freedom around the world. And THAT means being the meanest SOB around. Especially since the United States itself is a representative republic.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
First you say, "I do n
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 19:54 ET by WhichWingFirst you say, "I do not care what is in the best interests of any other nation in the world other than the United States of America." Then you'll say "But they all hate us and want to kill us. We can't make them happy." You certainly have the right to your opinion, but you should see the flaw in the logic. Cause and effect they call it.
Once again, thinking I care when I don't
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 20:38 ET by UnsaneYou, again, make the mistaken assumption that I care what the world thinks of the United States.
History: Back in April 1986, after Eldorado Canyon, the world was indignant with rage that the United States would DARE to defend its citizens against Libyan-sponsored terrorism. The only nations that voted against a conemnation of the United States in the UN General Assembly that week were the United States, the United Kingdom, and Israel. Even then, I didn't care about that. I was just pissed that a bomb just missed Khadafy's tent.
This is NOT a g*d!#m high-school popularity contest, WhichWing! Will you EVER understand that???
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
WHAT YOU DON"T UNDERST
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 22:19 ET by WhichWingWHAT YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND IS THIS: Foreign policy that follows your line of thinking, and Bush's "cowboy diplomacy," are at the root of our problems. Will you EVER understand that???? You can promote whatever line of thinking you want, but don't deny that they have an effect on our standing in the world (whether you care about that standing or not).
WhichWing, maybe you can resp
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 10:27 ET by UnsaneWhichWing, maybe you can respond to me after you have graduated from high school (where you still seem to be hopelessly trapped). Bush's diplomacy backed by force has led to:
1) Emancipation from the Taliban in Afghanistan. Did you know that the EU whined about the Taliban for years until the United States ousted them by force? In your happy world, we would still be whining about the Taliban without having done a damn thing about them. (Violence works every single time it is tried.)
2) Libya willingly coughed up its WMD program.
3) The Lebanese rose up against the Syrians in early 2005 and tossed out the Syrians. Now, I know you are thinking that happened on its own, but if so, what took the Lebanese 30 years to do that?
4) Several countries around the world fear the United States (the way it should be).
Everyone in the world hates us, right, WhichWing, because we are not the pathetic, whiny, toothless, powerless nation you so wish us to be? Perhaps then you can explain why people STILL immigrate here, and why nations around the world still emulate our methods and institutions.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Ha, trying to pin your talk
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 17:14 ET by WhichWingHa, trying to pin your talking point on me. I disagree that everyone in the world hates us. That is what you are always shouting. And they emulate our domestic policies, but if they begin to emulate our foreign policy you'll be calling for war all over again.
By the way, how's the Taliban doing these days? And if we were so concerned about Saddam gassing his own people, why did we take 15 years to do something about it? Because it didn't fit our agenda until then, that's why. Same as Darfur.
Lemme guess. You whine and
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:08 ET by UnsaneLemme guess. You whine and cry about us being in Iraq, but hot damn! We have to go and invade Sudan and overthrow their regime for supporting the janjaweed in Darfur!
Too damn bad that intervention in Darfur doesn't advance our national interests (and neither did intervening in Kosovo or Bosnia)
Hate to break that perpetually hemmorhaging heart of yours again, but I do not care what other nations think of us, nor what they do (so long as it is not contrary to the national interests of the United States). In your whiny world, Ethiopia emulated our foreign policy by invading Somalia (never mind that Somalia was becoming an infested rathole of terrorists). I for one am much appreciative that Addis Ababa saved us the trouble and took out the Islamicist regime in Somalia.
Maybe you can tell me about the Taliban. I have an answer, but I am tired of answering your juvenile questions. And as for Iraq? Well, I could answer that, but as it pains you to study international relations from a realist, realpolitik perspective,why should I answer? The response will be long and will be parsecs over your head anyways. I suggest you read Niccolo Machiavelli's The Prince before I even begin to answer. Here's betting you won't, even though the book is quite short and an easy read. But at least you got one thing right: it didn't fit our agenda then (and that bothers me not at all either)...there are reasons it did not fit our agenda.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
If you took my statement as
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:44 ET by WhichWingIf you took my statement as a call for intervention in Darfur, you are mistaken. But I guess you had to shield your stance from the hypocrisy that was being pointed out.
What hypocrisy? You need to
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 22:52 ET by UnsaneWhat hypocrisy?
You need to do much studying about what realpolitik is all about. Sure, Chile's Pinochet was not a pleasant guy or a ruler...but Chile wasn't Communist, as it was sure to be under Allende.
Saddam Hussein at least kept Iran quite busy for 8 years. Had he just shut up and not invaded Kuwait, he might still be in power. Oh yeah, there was also his attacks on Israel and sponsorship of Palestinian terrorism, and harboring other terrorists like Abu Nidal. Therefore, he needed to be taken out.
Why didn't we intervene in East Germany in 1953? Or Hungary in 1956? Or Poland in 1970 and 1981? Or East Timor in 1975? Why didn't we roll out the Berlin Brigade and prevent the building of die Mauer on the grounds that it violated the Four Powers Agreement regarding access to and from Berlin?
You know, I could go on, but all of this is way above your head. You are a simple little boy with very little understanding of the reality of the world. You exposed yourself there by backing a silly conspiracy theory.
By the way, why even mention Darfur if you are not all hot-to-trot about intervening there? Hmmmmmm? (I bet you would love to see the United States intervene there. It will make you FEEL good, and above all, it is NOT in the United States' national interests to do so!)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
President Bush repeatedly t
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 02:21 ET by WhichWingPresident Bush repeatedly told us all that Saddam had gassed his own people. Which, obviously, is an awful thing. The only thing I'm questioning is why it wasn't until 14 years after the fact that our government was bothered. Or was it just easier to sell the war on that than the lack of WMD's and no Iraqi involvement in 9/11? If he truly was concerned about the welfare of innocent people, then why the silence in Darfur? And many other parts of the world for that matter.
I know you are only concerned about our national interests, so you don't need to remind me of that. But eventually Darfur will be high on your list of national interests, when they start drilling for oil in that region. Or maybe they are just hoping to thin the herd a little for exactly that?
Which
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 03:09 ET by gfrrmanWhere the hell is the f'ing U.N. pal? Why doesn't the f'ing U.N. do ANYTHING? You lefties complain that we need to go to the U.N all the time before we do anything. Where oh where is the f'ing USELESS U.N. for crying out loud??!!! Why didn't Kofi 'where's my oil $$' Anan do anything before he stole off into the wild blue yonder? Where is the f'ing U. g'damn N.??? What did Bill Clinton do? Not a f'ing thing. NOTHING!! Not a g'damn thing!! And what are YOU f'ing doing about it, acting like a nice spineless whimpy liberal? You complain, moan and bitch and do not a g'damn thing. I know, it was the intention that counts. What are YOU doing about it? Not a f'ing thing. CAN IT!! You leftists are PATHETIC!!
"Eventually, Socialists run out of other peoples' money...." MARGARET THATCHER
I've noticed that everytime
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 07:43 ET by WhichWingI've noticed that everytime one of you shout something along the lines of "You lefties complain this or that," it has yet to apply to anything I've said. I don't recall ever mentioning the UN. I'm sorry you don't like the UN. I promise that if I'm ever in a position to address your complaints about the UN, I will do so.
I love how you love to show o
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 17:22 ET by UnsaneI love how you love to show off your perpetually hemmorhaging heart here for all to see, combined with a complete ignorance of basic knowledge.
If they found oil in Darfur, so what? It would go to the EU and perhaps even China before a drop hit the United States. If I wanted a secure source of oil, I would invade Alberta...then Mexico, and then turn Venezuela into a puppet state.
Bush is concerned for the welfare of innocent people. I was just in downtown Houston a short while ago. I much prefer its skyline stay intact. Not to mention that I don't think the general population knows what to do when some terrorists show up with AKs and begin spraying (among other horrific things that can happen). I would much rather have the terrorists get bullets in their heads in Baghdad and other Iraqi towns and cities, rather than in downtown Houston or New York.
This means staying on the offensive, making damn sure no one else gets any dumb ideas, and maintaining peace through strength.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Why can't you figure it out WhichWing ?
Mon, 04/09/2007 - 18:22 ET by SportPoliticsWhy can't you figure it out WhichWing ? It's the same thing your demo Edwards rails about all the time. " The two Americas", only this is " the two nations".
The crappy nations are a whole lot of all the rest, and the "rich nation" is USA.
So, the crappy little poor nations are all angry at the big money bags CEO of the world.
Now, if they can score that corporate job ( move to the USA ) - then get a piece of that big CEO pie, from that big CEO they hate so much, they love it. Get on the inside and see the palace. They can even dream of and possibly even run a good chunk of that big CEO pie.
They can even stand up and CUSS OUT THEIR BOSSMAN AT WORK (diss the USA like libbos do ), while they're on the job, and he can't do CRAP about it ( free speech m'yan). If he even tries, big trouble and more backing for the one cussin' out the bossman while on the job ! ( they've silenced us !!! our rights our gone, and Bush did it, that #$#$#% )
Dang what could be better ?
That's it in a nutshell buddy !
You all hate those evil CEO corpo robberbarrons, until you decide one of yours should be elected ( John billionaire Kerry) - or - you become one. ( Nancy restaurant chain Pelsoi, Slick 200,000 an hour talker Willie, Hillary 100,000 dollars for a grand cattle futures RodnHam, Peter the insurance Progressive magnate, whatever...
I mean that's it EXACTLY bubba !
" Oh, you arrogant American " -saith the other nationer-
Next year with Visa on the road to citizenship " I am and American, and I have ALL the rights afforded in the land of the free ! "
" I went to Yankee BALLGAME last week mo ! "
" I RULE ! "
" I'm getting my pie ! "
Ya got it there little feller ?
Think how much you hate "those" CEO's, then think how much you'd LOVE to have that 26 million dollar golden parachute after you party all over the world for a year and blow the company completely.
Yes, my bud, that's what hate is all about.
It's a lot deeper than just that too ...
* Bush is putting up that invulnerable shield ! dangit - they already can kick everyone's rump, and now they get the nuke knockdown crap too?
* They think they got the best colleges in the world - cripininny! I mean there's Oxford, but they got 12 of em or something !
* Those arrogant liberals over there think they know it all ! Gawd, and they act like noone can shut them up when their in our countries ! They think they're "setting an example" for us. I hate em!
* What the heck are their CEO's doing here on the other side of the earth ! Good gawd they're hoggin up all the money in the world !!** gawww
* Thank gawd China built the biggest damn 3 gorges - by golly that ell show them yankee bastards!
* How many more *D! decades are those ****'ers going to be on top !!!! . They rigged the whole danged thing after WW2- ya just knowwwwww they did !
* Their dollar, why is there a US dollar in Cuba here, gawd get me away from these dollars! They're everywhere ! I hate 'em, they own us.
* They nuked the japs man ! Can you believe that ? Now the japs like them, and Germany and Japan are like #2 and #3 most of the time.. What the H E double toothpicks gives? daggggggonnne it ! Would you EVER loan some sob money after they nuked ya ? Heck no ! Is their CIA mind controlling Japan ?
* Their Hollywood, well how many billions of dollars do they have over there ? They got a whole set of super fancy elite stars known the world over ! Who the heck made them boss of the theatre? ! ? Wahhhhhhh
On and on and on and on....
Got it there WhichWing ?
Have I ganked out enough that you caught on ?
Now you have answer, and like a stupid liberal blank slate idiot, you won't reappear.
Why is it you are neuroticall
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 10:17 ET by UnsaneWhy is it you are neurotically obsessed about how the world looks at us? Do you think that international politics is a night at the high school prom?
If we are not perceived as weak (as thus FEARED), bad things do not happen.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Yeah, you've managed to mak
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 16:58 ET by WhichWingYeah, you've managed to make another great point. Saddam was feared by his people and many surrounding nations and nothing bad happened to him. Our projection of power throughout the world helped to prevent the attacks of 9/11. England's power and being allied with the US helped to prevent attacks in their country. Hitler caused fear everywhere he went and nothing bad happened to him.
It seems the only time you are concerned about our image is when its perceived as anything other that "the most powerful nation in the world." I think you are just as obsessed with how the world looks at us as you accuse me of being.
1) Saddam picked on the WRONG
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:20 ET by Unsane1) Saddam picked on the WRONG people.
2) So now you acknowledge the WTC towers were in fact attacked on 9/11? Interesting. Well, we didn't project power very well eight years previous, so the terrorists got bold. How did we respond on 25 February 1993 to the first attempt? Nothing, unless you count some prosecutions. What did we do in response to the embassy attacks in August 1998? Send one cruise missile each to Afghanistan and Sudan. (Wow.) Or, how about the attack on the USS Cole? Nothing at all. Not one damn thing. All of this just emboldened the terrorists.
Back in the 1980s, Reagan had the airliner that carried the hijackers of the Achille Lauro forced to land in Italy (where those pansies turned them loose sometime later) for capture. Then you have my oft-cited Eldorado Canyon reference. That worked...for awhile.
3) Did you know that the terrorists of the London attack you cite were home-grown, NOT connected to al-Qaeda? And what of The Troubles? Do you wish to blame that on the United States?
4) Hitler had a great run while it lasted...all thanks to gutless wonders just like you. The European nations were all scared of provoking a wider war, so they decided to talk to him and show them just what super-nice people they were. And all were conned, to the tune of several million people dead and shattered economies AND lives...
What would have happened if some brave soul just stood up and drew the line at the Sudetenland? How many millions might have been saved? We will never ever know...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I wonder if terrorist leade
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 02:41 ET by WhichWingI wonder if terrorist leaders rally their troops by telling them that they are emboldening the USA by not attacking them? Maybe Bin Laden told his guys that if they didn't attack us over here, we'd attack them over there. Now they're probably all pointing fingers and screaming at each other that they didn't attack enough, and now that danged ole USA has been emboldened. I guess we're all emboldenend in the end.
OBL was telling his people th
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 17:31 ET by UnsaneOBL was telling his people that because the United States is populated by whiny, spineless people like WhichWing, they could do WHATEVER THEY WANTED with total impunity.
Oh, of course, they were also depending on whiny, spineless people like WhichWing to cave in at every single turn to every single demand. (I imagine that if you were in power on 11 September 2001, I, along will millions of others, I would begin this day, like every one since then, by reciting the shehada and a morning prayer, with a gun at my back...because it would make WhichWing FEEL better.)
What, WhichWing? Do you think that the proper response to 9/11/01 was to completely dismantle our military and make reparations to the Middle East to the tune of $1 trillion to show them that we REALLY are the most super-nice people on the planet, and to make them LIKE us? (Never mind that the only really effective way of dealing with problems like this is the massive application of violence, as history has shown again and again and again...)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Man, I'm getting a lot of c
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 07:49 ET by WhichWingMan, I'm getting a lot of capital letters out of you, does that mean that I'm winning or losing? And again, do you think that OBL told his followers that they could reason with us, but violence was the only really effective way of dealing with problems like theirs?
As an aside, why did OBL go from training with the CIA to attacking the USA?
You always lose when all you
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 13:50 ET by UnsaneYou always lose when all you can whine about is when I choose to hit the Shift key, how often I do, and my word selection. You lost a long time ago on that latter score and don't even know it.
I think OBL and you have something in common: ingratitude. You MAY remember...no, wait, I doubt that...
Back on 27 December 1979 the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in order to prop up a Marxist regime that had taken over the previous year. The mujahadeen and Arab-Afghans were doing great work against them, but still could use a boost. Hence the United States contributed money and arms to remove the Communists from Afghanistan. (Saudi Arabia, among other Muslim allies, contributed MUCH more money.)
It all worked because on 15 February 1989, the last Soviet armored vehicles crossed the bridge from Afghanistan back into the USSR. But then, 1989 was a horrifying year for world communism.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Why did OBL turn against us
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 07:30 ET by WhichWingWhy did OBL turn against us though? (I'm not implying that he turned against us for one reason or another, I'm asking you.)
Cure your selective literacy,
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 13:36 ET by UnsaneCure your selective literacy, don't be lazy, and re-read the second paragraph carefully.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Oh ok, it was simply ingrat
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 07:51 ET by WhichWingOh ok, it was simply ingratitude. But I don't understand how that leads someone to want to attack another nation.
Why did Japan attack us? As
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 18:18 ET by UnsaneWhy did Japan attack us?
As an academic exercise, yeah, I suppose I can sit around all day and be concerned and upset that someone wants to attack us. But that doesn't diminish the threat any.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
A simple "I don't know
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 07:50 ET by WhichWingA simple "I don't know" would of worked too. No one is going to hold it against you. I don't know the answer either. I was asking you because I thought you might know.
I answered your question; you
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:22 ET by UnsaneI answered your question; you just don't like the answer.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
I guess I'm just disapointe
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 08:04 ET by WhichWingI guess I'm just disapointed with your answer. I expected more effort than "ingratitude." Maybe it is as simple as that, I don't know.
I can be imaginative, and thi
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:22 ET by UnsaneI can be imaginative, and think of better answers, I suppose, but not in that case.
"Ingratitude" it is.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Look, NB friends. Which Win
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:38 ET by MightyMouthLook, NB friends. Which Wing has wasted enough of your valuable time. He cannot be convinced and his forum has WAY too many posts. Leave him to his own dilusions. Just saying... the truth.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Mighty Mouth...I could not ag
Wed, 04/11/2007 - 23:55 ET by bigtimerMighty Mouth...
I could not agree more...
He is getting way too much attention with his crap, intentionally, that is what trolls do, they get paid for it...every night here..and other trolls are trolling on in..there are more valuable blogs to discuss...
Just sayin' too....
Enough!
Why is it that threads I'
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:23 ET by WhichWingWhy is it that threads I'm involved with have so many posts? Maybe instead of jumping to the conclusion of someone being a troll you could recognize someone who is interested in discussion and exchange of ideas. This thread would only be a couple of entries long if you were not also interested in the discussion.
If a "troll" is someone who doesn't agree 100% with 100% of the other posters, then I am that. If a "troll" is someone who posts with the sole intention of attacking someone they disagree with, then I've seen alot of those.
By the way, if you find out who is supposed to be paying me, let them know the checks aren't getting here.
WW..You are good...I will say
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:30 ET by bigtimerWW..
You are good...I will say that for ya!
Ask for a raise...and tell them to quit saying the checks in the mail...ask for Direct Deposit!
The checks aren't getting t
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:33 ET by MightyMouthThe checks aren't getting to you because no one is willing to pay someone who belabours a point to death and won't accept a resond response. That would be YOU! WW.
You dont want debate. You believe in your agenda as if you were a religious zelot who belives in the dogma of their position. You cannot be moved and you won't admit it. Therefore you are here to disrupt. Prove me wrong!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I suggest that you read my
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 00:48 ET by WhichWingI suggest that you read my replies in various threads and then compare the tone and text of them to most of the other replies by other people. The proof you desire will be waiting for you on the other side of your journey.
Are you applying for membersh
Thu, 04/12/2007 - 22:56 ET by UnsaneAre you applying for membership in Unsane's NB "Holier-Than-Thou" club? Or are you just whining about the tone?
Interesting whine, from one who accused me of hypocrisy and imperialism, one who has stated that thanks to Bush, the United States can be compared to the Third Reich, and to the Soviet Union, among other offenses. Yet, he will whine and cry about how people are picking on him, attacking him, wah wah wah...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Success again Unsane. Yo
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 02:30 ET by WhichWingSuccess again Unsane. Your entire post is a mischaracterization of statements made by me. Funny this is coming from you towards me after all the times you've told me that something was over my head, or that I was prone to adolescent psychobabble. (Now I've validated your hypocrisy claim.)
Don't blame me because you st
Fri, 04/13/2007 - 17:37 ET by UnsaneDon't blame me because you still adhere to philosophies I once had...when I was about 8 years old. It is adolescent psychobabble to believe that violence doesn't solve anything, and that if "you desire peace, you must prepare for war" (something called deterrence...deterrence is...forget it) just leads to more violence.
Violence is historically proven to work. It has worked every single time it has been tried. Unlike talking.
All I have seen from your posts are childish gibberish, and plenty of moral relevance that leads me to believe you care more for America's adversaries infinitely more than America.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Hmm, maybe terrorists have
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 07:38 ET by WhichWingHmm, maybe terrorists have been living by your philosophies. But, is the violence working for them, or for us?
Again, with that weak, whiny
Sat, 04/14/2007 - 13:57 ET by UnsaneAgain, with that weak, whiny moral relevism of yours. It is readily apparent to myself and others that you are much more concerned with the terrorists of the world and enemies of your own country, than you are with...your own country. Sick.
Answer a question for a change: Do you believe the key to world peace is the United States dissolving its military (in a bid to show the entire world that we really are the world's most super-nice people!!!)?
Terrorism is always the reaction of the weak. Ask the ETA in Spain, the IRA in Ireland, and other groups of the past like the Red Brigades of Italy, the Red Army Faction in Germany, and other assorted terrorist organizations like the Fighting Communist Cells. Or Palestinian terrorist organizations, that seemingly can't get an all out war against Israel going (because the IDF WILL kick their asses), so they decide to blow up innocent civilians instead. However, as it is still a threat to society, it must be dealt with.
Apparently, the violence IS working for us. No terrorist attacks have occurred within the United States since 11 September 2001. And Libya (with the sole exception of Lockerbie and PanAm Flight 103) has pretty well shut the hell up since Eldorado Canyon...
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Answer a question for a cha
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 07:37 ET by WhichWingAnswer a question for a change: Do you believe the key to world peace
is the United States dissolving its military (in a bid to show the
entire world that we really are the world's most super-nice people!!!)?
The answer to that is no. I have never even hinted at such a thing. We don't disagree on the need for a military, we just disagree on it's use.
I love how proud you are of the fact that we've had no attacks within the US since 9/11. Don't get me wrong, that is a great thing. But for some reason, I doubt that you were hyping the lack of attacks from 1993 until 2001 within the US. Which, by the way, is a longer period of time from 9/11 until now. What did Clinton do right to prevent attacks for that period? Or does he not get the same credit that Bush gets for that?
Mr. Greatthings (Clinton) get
Sun, 04/15/2007 - 13:44 ET by UnsaneMr. Greatthings (Clinton) gets no credit. He was getting plenty of warnings but did absolutely NOTHING.
We lost the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998. What did he do? Send one missile apiece into the Sudan and Afghanistan. I shudder to think about what would happen if he had been a bit more forceful. As I recall, no embassies anywhere have been lost under Bush...I wonder why???
(Oh yeah, one was fired on in Athens...but did you know that since, well, EVER, we spend more on the security of the embassy in Athens than any other embassy in the world?)
Back in October 2000, the USS Cole was bombed in Aden. Again, what might have a more forceful response done? Absolutely NOTHING was done in response. How many naval vessels have been bombed under President Bush? I wonder why that is?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Mr. Greatthings (Clinton) g
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 07:33 ET by WhichWingMr. Greatthings (Clinton) gets no credit. He was getting plenty of warnings but did absolutely NOTHING.
Seems to me that we had quite a few warnings before 9/11, and did absolutely NOTHING. I wonder why that is? PDB anyone?
Warnings like what? By the
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 18:20 ET by UnsaneWarnings like what?
By the way, I mean real warnings, like "we will fly two 767s into the WTC towers on the morning of 11 September 2001." Not this vague crap I have seen that could have meant anything at all.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Someone should send a memo to
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 07:56 ET by WhichWingSomeone should send a memo to the terrorists, pointing out our need for them to be more specific. If they could send an email over to Cheney it would be a great help.
Or...a friendly telephone cal
Tue, 04/17/2007 - 23:27 ET by UnsaneOr...a friendly telephone call from the IRA to PM Thatcher to warn her about the Brighton bombing, or from the Red Army Faction to Rhein-Main AB warning about the dorm bombing, or Palestinian terrorists letting airport authorities of their plan to mow down civlians in Rome and Vienna...(etc etc etc etc)
Would it make you FEEL better if we came up with a Geneva Convention for terrorists?
You have so much to learn it is not even funny.
(And thank you for proving once again you hate and fear your own government more than the terrorists that want to kill you.)
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
(And thank you for proving
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 07:41 ET by WhichWing(And thank you for proving once again you hate and fear your own government more than the terrorists that want to kill you.)
I posted that again, hoping, for your sake, that it will become the truth.
No need to hope when it IS th
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:24 ET by UnsaneNo need to hope when it IS the truth...
...if it wasn't, why else cling to the conspiracy theories like Linus clings to his security blanket?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Incorrect
Mon, 04/16/2007 - 18:56 ET by Mr. BishopYour statement is incorrect. The attack on the USS Cole is an attack within the US. It matters little where any US vessel is in the world, an attack against it, is an attack against the US, on US territory. In addition, any embassies that were attacked, were also attacked under US command, on US soil.
Clinton did nothing to stop any of it from occurring. By creating terrorism as a crime enforcement issue, instead of a military logisitical issue, he (Clinton) made it impossible to stop a terrorist attack from occurring. By, instead, changing it into a military war issue, you don't wait for an attack to come, you reach out and stomp the terrorists before they have a chance to attack.
"Stop global warming! Asphyxiate a liberal!" - Show us how far you're willing to go to stop "global warming"
This is a reply to this pos
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 07:57 ET by WhichWingThis is a reply to this post by Unsane, which can be found earlier in this thread:
I actually DO prefer representative republics like this one over
pure democracies. (Am I to take it that democracy to WhichWing means
he can post with 1000% impunity, with ZERO criticism?) And I hate
freedom? Not so. I have no ability to usurp you ability (no, you have
NO right to post here, actually, as I don't have one either, nor anyone
else) to post, and nor would I even if I did. I have always been a
firm believer in letting people make fools of themselves if the so
desire. By the way, unlike you I have taken an oath of office to
support and defend the Constitution, our source of representative
democracy, three times. You won't even do it once, because you don't
believe in the nation enough to do it; wanting to pick and choose your
battles like Paine's "summertime soldiers and sunchine patriots".
What a pathetic whine. You are just crying like a three-year-old that someone would DARE call you on your beliefs.
You are mistaken again, I am fine with you disagreeing with me. But immediately running to the "you hate your country" mantra is ridiculous. You are only displaying the shallowness of your arguement by resorting to that. Challenge my beliefs all day long, that's what we are doing here after all. But declaring what my beliefs are is an entirely different issue. I've asked you on numerous occasions to stop, and I'll do it again now. Please stop saying that I hate my country. You may hate my opinions and views on current issues, but that does not mean that I hate my country.
WhichWhine, you have given
Sun, 04/22/2007 - 00:28 ET by UnsaneWhichWhine, you have given me zero indication of otherwise. If you didn't fear and hate your own government more than the people who actually murdered thousands of your fellow citizens and are willing to do so again, why cling to your tired conspiracy theories, and spend so much time worrying about what other people think of what the United States does to ensure its survival and protect its interests?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
"What led to his cahnge
Wed, 04/18/2007 - 08:31 ET by SouthJersey1953"What led to his cahnge of position?
How about two airplanes flying into the WTC and a third into the Pentagon?
How about an insurgency funded and supported by Iran and Syria that keeps feeding the fire in Iraq?
How about a desire to DEFEAT the terrorists and not be defeated by them?
Don't settle for a RINO. Let's find and support a TRUE conservative.
DEMS...BRIBERY!...RICO!...TREASON!
Mon, 04/30/2007 - 20:33 ET by Mark HarrisDEMS…BRIBERY!..RICO!..TREASON!
by Mark Harris, National Political Digest.com
_ _________________________________________________________
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
and Certain Citizens
V.
Members of the Senate
of the United States of America:
Chuck Hagel, Gordon Smith, Daniel Akaka, Max Baucus, Evan Bayh, Joseph Biden, Jeff Bingaman, Barbara Boxer, Sherrod Brown, Robert Byrd, Maria Cantwell, Ben Cardin, Thomas Carper, Bob Casey, Hillary Clinton, Kent Conrad, Christopher Dodd, Byron Dorgan, Dick Durbin, Russell Feingold, Dianne Feinstein, Tom Harkin, Daniel Inouye, Edward Kennedy, John Kerry, Amy Klobuchar, Herb Kohl, Mary Landrieu, Frank Lautenberg, Patrick Leahy, Carl Levin, Blanche Lincoln, Claire McCaskill, Robert Menéndez, Barbara Mikulski, Patty Murray, Ben Nelson, Bill Nelson, Barack Obama, Mark Pryor, Jack Reed, Harry Reid, Jay Rockefeller, Kenneth Salazar, Chuck Schumer, Debbie Stabenow, Jon Tester, Jim Webb, Sheldon Whitehouse, Ron Wyden
Members of the House of Representatives
of the United States of America:
Wayne Gilchrest, Walter JonesNeil Abercrombie, Gary Ackerman, Thomas Allen, Jason Altmire, Robert Andrews, Michael Arcuri, Joe Baca, Brian Baird, Tammy Baldwin, Melissa Bean, Xavier Becerra, Shelley Berkley, Howard Berman, Marion Berry, Sanford Bishop, Timothy Bishop, Earl Blumenauer, Leonard Boswell, Rick Boucher, Allen Boyd, Nancy Boyda, Robert Brady, Bruce Braley, Corrine Brown, G.K. Butterfield, Lois Capps, Michael Capuano, Dennis Cardoza, Russ Carnahan, Christopher Carney, Julia Carson, Kathy Castor, Ben Chandler, Yvette Clarke, William Clay, Emanuel Cleaver, James Clyburn, Steve Cohen, John Conyers, Jim Cooper, Jim Costa, Jerry Costello, Joe Courtney, Bud Cramer, Joseph Crowley, Henry Cuellar, Elijah Cummings, Danny Davis, Artur Davis, Susan Davis, Peter DeFazio, Diana DeGette, Rosa DeLauro, William Delahunt, Norman Dicks, John Dingell, Lloyd Doggett, Joe Donnelly, Michael Doyle, Chet Edwards, Keith Ellison, Brad Ellsworth, Rahm Emanuel, Eliot Engel, Anna Eshoo, Bob Etheridge, Sam Farr, Chaka Fattah, Bob Filner, Barney Frank, Gabrielle Giffords, Kirsten Gillibrand, Charles Gonzalez, Bart Gordon, Al Green, Gene Green, Raúl Grijalva, Luis Gutiérrez, John Hall, Phil Hare, Jane Harman, Alcee Hastings, Stephanie Herseth, Brian Higgins, Baron Hill, Maurice Hinchey, Rubén Hinojosa, Mazie Hirono, Paul Hodes, Tim Holden, Chris Van Hollen, Rush Holt, Mike Honda, Darlene Hooley, Steny Hoyer, Jay Inslee, Steve Israel, Jesse Jackson, Sheila Jackson-Lee, William Jefferson, Eddie Johnson, Stephanie Jones, Henry Johnson Jr., Steve Kagen, Marcy Kaptur, Patrick Kennedy, Dale Kildee, Carolyn Kilpatrick, Ron Kind, Ron Klein, Nicholas Lampson, James Langevin, Tom Lantos, Rick Larsen, John Larson, Sander Levin, Daniel Lipinski, David Loebsack, Zoe Lofgren, Nita Lowey, Stephen Lynch, Tim Mahoney, Carolyn Maloney, Edward Markey, Doris Matsui, Carolyn McCarthy, Betty McCollum, Jim McDermott, James McGovern, Mike McIntyre, Jerry McNerney, Martin Meehan, Kendrick Meek, Gregory Meeks, Charles Melancon, Juanita Millender-McDonald, Brad Miller, George Miller, Harry Mitchell, Alan Mollohan, Dennis Moore, Gwen Moore, James Moran, Patrick Murphy, Christopher Murphy, John Murtha, Jerrold Nadler, Grace Napolitano, Richard Neal, James Oberstar, David Obey, John Olver, Solomon Ortiz, Frank Pallone, Bill Pascrell, Ed Pastor, Donald Payne, Nancy Pelosi, Ed Perlmutter, Collin Peterson, Earl Pomeroy, David Price, Nick Rahall, Charles Rangel, Silvestre Reyes, Ciro Rodriguez, Mike Ross, Steven Rothman, Lucille Roybal-Allard, Dutch Ruppersberger, Bobby Rush, Tim Ryan, John Salazar, Loretta Sanchez, John Sarbanes, Jan Schakowsky, Adam Schiff, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Allyson Schwartz, David Scott, Robert Scott, José Serrano, Joe Sestak, Carol Shea-Porter, Brad Sherman, Heath Shuler, Albio Sires, Ike Skelton, Louise Slaughter, Adam Smith, Vic Snyder, Hilda Solis, Zachary Space, John Spratt, Bart Stupak, Betty Sutton, Linda Sánchez, John Tanner, Ellen Tauscher, Mike Thompson, Bennie Thompson, John Tierney, Edolphus Towns, Mark Udall, Tom Udall, Nydia Velázquez, Peter Visclosky, Timothy Walz, Henry Waxman, Anthony Weiner, Peter Welch, Robert Wexler, Charles Wilson, David Wu, Al Wynn, John Yarmuth
____________________________________________________________
Criminal Action U.S. Code 18,201 Bribery
Criminal Action U.S. Code 18,1956 RICO
Criminal Action U.S. Code 18,2381 Treason
1. Whereas, on or about March 23, 2007, the House of Representatives of the United States voted yea on passage of H.R. 1591, Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Fiscal Year Ending September 30, 2007.
2. Whereas, on or about March 29, 2007, the Senate of the United States voted yea
on passage of H.R. 1591, Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Fiscal Year Ending September 30, 2007.
3. Whereas, on these separate days, the respective members of both bodies formed an unholy alliance with various votes being bought for vast sums of money committed to individual districts and states. The majority party was utterly and totally complicit in this scheme. These agreements were made on items totally unrelated to the needs of the military and were made with general common knowledge.
4. Whereas, certain members, specifically Congressman Murtha, supported this bill
for the express purpose of “a slow bleed” to the war. And therefore, at a time of war, proposed this method with no regard for the betrayal of a trust made by the nation and
particularly the Congress of the United States of America to the men and women of the nation’s military. The armed forces of the United States have been committed to the international war on terror. Anything less than total victory is nothing more than failure and defeat. The Heroes of this War have already died or been wounded at least once. They should not be stabbed in the back by their unpatriotic countrymen!
5. Whereas, the giving and receiving of bribes and the general knowledge of “the
slow bleed” strategy makes all members of both bodies voting in the affirmative co-conspirators in this criminal plot of the highest magnitude!
cc: The Honorable Jeffrey A. Taylor
United States Attorney’s Office
For the District of Columbia
dc.outreach@usdoj.gov