So far, no Ivy League profs have responded to Rosie O'Donnell's royal command for an explanation from physics experts,but scientific mag “Popular Mechanics” did in their March 30 article. They don't wear elbow-patched tweed coats, but hopefully she will consider them authoritative. Last week, while discussing her pet 9/11 conspiracy theories, Rosie O’Donnell issued an imperial demand that someone “(g)et a physics expert here from Yale, from Harvard. Pick the school!” to explain how, in addition to other wacky ideas, “for the first time in history, steel was melted by fire,” causing World Trade Center Tower Seven to mysteriously collapse.
Presumably, she’s too busy to do the simple fact-finding herself, which is strange, because she isn’t new to using search engines to uncover information (“Google it! “). Newsbusters’ covered it here, and I wrote about her blog that continues these fantasies. The respected magazine penned a brief response to her main theories and tossed some cold reality on her wild rantings, laying them out numerically and focusing on her main claims (emphasis mine):
The implication that, unlike the Twin Towers, WTC7 did not have any external structural damage is addressed, partially with findings by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or NIST :
Initial reports from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) misunderstood the amount of damage the 47-floor WTC7 sustained from the debris of the falling North Tower—because in early photographs, WTC7 was obscured by smoke and debris.
…After further studies, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) told PM that debris from the 110-floor North Tower hit WTC7 with the force of a volcanic eruption. Nearly a quarter of the building was carved away over the bottom 10 stories on its south face, and significant damage was visible up to the 18th floor (see p. 24 of this report).
The unusual design of WTC7 is also crucial to the discussion, in that key columns supported extreme loads—as much as 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor—as the building straddled an electrical substation. “What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors,” NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told PM, “it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down.” The tower wasn’t hit by a plane, but it was severely wounded by the collapse of the North Tower. Which is when the fires started
Now to Rosie’s main claims that the Twin Towers “got hit by planes” and her sardonic statement that WTC7 defied the laws of physics and “miraculously, the first time in history, steel was melted by fire." In contrast, PM stated that the Towers stood for “more than a half-hour after the impacts” and were brought down by raging fires, and WTC7 was weakened by fire:
The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center weren’t knocked down by planes—they both stood for more than a half-hour after the impacts. But the crashes destroyed support columns and ignited infernos that ultimately weakened—not melted—the steel structures until the towers could no longer support their own weights (NIST offers a primer here). Ms. O’Donnell fundamentally misstates the case with her use of the word “melting”: Evidence currently points to WTC7 also collapsing because fires weakened its ravaged steel structure.
PM described the fuel tanks located throughout the building (for the in-house emergency command center) that continuously fed the fires as they raged for seven hours weakening the underlying structure before the inevitable collapse.
Tower 7 housed the city’s emergency command center, so there were a number of fuel tanks located throughout the building—including two 6000-gal. tanks in the basement that fed some generators in the building by pressurized lines. “Our working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time,” according to Sunder. Steel melts at about 2,750 degrees Fahrenheit—but it loses strength at temperatures as low as 400 F. When temperatures break 1000 degrees F, steel loses nearly 50 percent of its strength. It is unknown what temperatures were reached inside WTC7, but fires in the building raged for seven hours before the collapse.
Rosie believes WTC7 was “pulled” or brought down with explosives. PM asked demolition experts who stated that her theory presents “insurmountable logistical challenges,” and instead PM pointed to a “clear-cut engineering explanation” for how and “why the building fell the way it did.” With the south face "heavily damaged," the other columns were "overtaxed," when "weakened columns failed."
We’ll have to see if Rosie addresses this article, and if she does, whether she chooses hard facts and science over the shrewd editing, misrepresentations and fanciful imaginations of the Truthers.
“Popular Mechanics” dealt with many of the 9/11 conspiracies in its 2006 book, “Debunking 9/11 Myths.”
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Most Leftist, conspiratorial,
March 31, 2007 - 18:46 ET by BlazerMost Leftist, conspiratorial, tin-foil hat wearing ,gay- agenda ,binge eaters wouldn't let a minor thing like science get in the way of pushing their propoganda, right AL?
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
It came as no surprise that
March 31, 2007 - 19:21 ET by radiofitz34It came as no surprise that building 7 collapsed. Given the intense heat even after both towers collapsed. The rotund lesbian (it must be noted that I swore in a previous post not to use her name again) claims to know the truth. She will eventually dig her own grave soon and no longer will appear on The View.
Word on the street is that th
March 31, 2007 - 20:56 ET by GregEWord on the street is that they're working on getting rid of her ASAP. The dilema is whether to get rid of her before having an exit large enough to also get rid of her mouth at the same time. If she goes before construction of that exit, the latter will remain. Logistics are currently under discussion.
You mean, when they hired R
April 1, 2007 - 14:53 ET by Tom1969caYou mean, when they hired Rosie, ABC didn't have an exit strategy...? ;-)
~~~
If Hillary is the answer, it must've been a stupid question...
ABC flip-flop
April 1, 2007 - 14:59 ET by Pragmatic-ManABC voted FOR Rosie before they voted AGAINST her. Now all they need to do is cook up some false documents and levy something against her that has the hallmark "seriousness of the charge" qualification. I hope she gets swiftboated before too long.
Along with your promise not
April 2, 2007 - 10:44 ET by steviep831Along with your promise not to use her name any more, I wish NB would swear not to show her likeness here again too. I don't know if my stomach can handle looking at her anymore.
Well, you know that saying,
March 31, 2007 - 19:45 ET by motherbeltdelete double post
Well, you know that saying,
March 31, 2007 - 19:54 ET by motherbeltWell, you know that saying, Blazer: "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts!"
Rosie the O won't be deterred. Every expert that contradicts her pet theory will just be another brick in the wall of conspiracy.
I really think she has been told by Barbara Walters and the other bigshots to keep pushing the envelope, get more outrageous by the week. It's all a ploy to increased their ratings, which were pretty much in the tank. Nothing succeeds like controversy and O'Donnell is providing it in spades. They don't care about anything but ratings and profits.
O'D...riding Egypt's big river swiftly...
March 31, 2007 - 19:22 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasYes, O'D has definitely left shore and nuttily riding "De Nile" quite rapidly. The article is absolutely excellent and details every question she asks. Now, will Lizzy confront her with this point by point and when she does so on the View Klux Klan...will O'D predictably demonstrate the consistent height of her arrognance by dimissing it all as PART of the BIG CONSPIRACY cover-up explanation?
Shut up and blog! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
This is some footage inside t
March 31, 2007 - 19:43 ET by upcountrywaterThis is some footage inside the WTC site, a few seconds one can view the debris that collided with the buildings that faced the towers, huge gouges.
All the views of wt7 collapsing were from the OTHER SIDE.
Good job "Popular Machanics"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9LWdzuyahI
Yes, thank you, Popular Mecha
March 31, 2007 - 20:02 ET by dahliatraversYes, thank you, Popular Mechanics. In particular, it was interesting to learn that WTC7 had two 6,000 gallon fuel tanks in its basement. We had been correctly asking what fed that seven hour fire; now we know.
Rosie is a vivid example of why you shouldn't open your mouth until you do some research and have a pile of facts in front of you.
Idiot Lib***ls
March 31, 2007 - 20:11 ET by acumenI still don't understand why the libs persist in wanting to pin the attacks of 911 on the US government?
Didn't the left tell us 911 was a good thing; that we deserved what happened? A (trying real hard not to laugh, just because of the seriousness of the event) wake up call?
Weren't the libs teaching our children that snuffing out 3000+ "little Eichmanns" was a noble endeavor?
And now the left is trying to give all the credit for this "good" deed of rubbing out the 3000+ "little Eichmanns" to their archrival........the US government?
Why this course reversal? Even considering it is lib***ls we are talking about, this makes no sense.
I wonder what lib***l congressman obey(me) would have to say about all of this.
Oh, that's right, "idiot lib***ls".
whether or not Rosie addresses it..
March 31, 2007 - 20:18 ET by Gary HallWhether or not Rosie addresses it.. is indeed a curious matter. However, one should confuse Rosie with the media - the press. The MSM likes the pathetically ignorant (and easy to defeat) conspiracy theories out there in the public as it entirely serves their agenda to keep faith in the Bush adminsitration in doubt.
Without any doubt in the least, we all know that if such shallow and dangerous conspiracies were being advanced with the goal bing to question a Democrat presidency, the MSM would be out there with experts analysts at every turn to set the record straight. If the sitting president were any Democrat, all of the network news shows, MSNBC, etc. would have been clammering to have Popular Mechanics, on air within a day's time with backup structural engineers from the nation's universities, to kill the conspiracy.
As one would expect, in the this case, the media has no interest in a gullible and fearful public finding out the truth - so they will allow the radical hate mongers to promote their conspiracy agendas in the news arena, while carefully selecting an opposing view (if at all) who can do nothing more than argue political angles - the experts will not be called.
From the The California Forest Products Commission, under the "Facts vs. Fiction" section:
".....so they will allow
April 1, 2007 - 11:21 ET by winston smith".....so they will allow the radical hate mongers to promote their conspiracy agendas in the news arena, while carefully selecting an opposing view (if at all) who can do nothing more than argue political angles - the experts will not be called. "
Yes, and this is the very same misinformation m.o. used by the media for Global Warming, AIDS, taxes, abortion, education and gay issues --- complete, deliberate, industry-wide stonewalling of opposing opinions and theories.
Hey Winston...Congratulations
April 1, 2007 - 13:13 ET by Clear thinkerHey Winston...
Congratulations! Your email was read by John Gibson on air concerning your wish that Tony Snow NOT have a succesful recovery.
You are pathetic!
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
It is nice to read the engi
March 31, 2007 - 21:22 ET by marvlIt is nice to read the engineering explanation for the fall of the buildings on 9/11, but I have to ask, why is anyone concerned with refuting Rosie O'Donnell? She's uneducated, ignorant, and most decidedly stupid. Who give's a rat's ass what she has to say about anything?
Okay, so I'll advance my own pet theory. I believe the twin towers were fatally weakened on the preceeding day when Rosie O'Donnell visited offices on the 100th floor. The weight of her massive ass introduced severe torsional bending of the steel structures within the towers, reducing their strength to the point that an airplane impact could bring the buildings down.
I think we should encourage e
March 31, 2007 - 21:55 ET by BrianBuckI think we should encourage every conservative in America to buy a copy of that PM issue and mail it to Rosie at ABC.
Even if every single conserva
March 31, 2007 - 22:28 ET by Trix RabbitEven if every single conservative did that, Rosie O'Dumbass would never read it. That article is far too cerebral and doesn't have enough pictures anyway.
Liberal: a power worshipper without power. George Orwell
During the months that follo
March 31, 2007 - 22:55 ET by 4arrowDuring the months that followed her 'Mr. Grant' or was it 'John/John' style ruinous magazine career her handlers kept her nibs from seeing the scathing press she was getting during the trial that followed. Vanity Fair for one. I doubt she gets anything but positive feedback even now from those who live off Rosie. So sad.
Part of the reason it is impo
April 1, 2007 - 10:40 ET by Lynn DavidsonPart of the reason it is important to address Rosie's ridiculous statements is because of her unique status as a celebrity. People give celebrities' opinions more weight than their other people's. If her comments are allowed to go unanswered or unchallenged, then it appears that she is correct.
Interesting pet theory. I wonder if the "Loose Changers" are aware of it. It is just as scientific and logical as the silliness they are pushing.
Yeah, gotta agree. She's go
April 1, 2007 - 11:31 ET by dahliatraversYeah, gotta agree. She's got a microphone and a camera trained on her. And people forget that the show is technically in the entertainment category so panelists comments should not be taken seriously.
couric?
April 1, 2007 - 11:33 ET by Pragmatic-ManWait, are we talking about Katie Couric?
Shoot. I can't remember!
April 1, 2007 - 13:03 ET by dahliatraversShoot. I can't remember!
Two Myths
March 31, 2007 - 22:42 ET by pbthinkerTwo of the greatest myths, that have allowed to continue for far too long, have been debunked by Popular Mechanics, Katrina and now this one. Someone should sit Rosie in a room and force her to watch all the video available on 9/11, then go back on television and repeat her rediculous theories.
There are people who could get away with saying "it's possible" the government was involved, but Rosie didn't say that, she said it with authority. I hope she gets taken over the coals for this.
Perhaps the best way is the mail all the copies of Popular Mechanics to ABC Television. There just might be someone there that can read.
On Ludovico's Technique
March 31, 2007 - 22:52 ET by UnsaneLudovico's Technique is indeed necessary for Rosie and countless like-minded Leftists.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You mean have O'Dumbass and
March 31, 2007 - 23:49 ET by Trix RabbitYou mean have O'Dumbass and other assorted leftards to acquire an aversion to stupidity? I don't think it will work.
Liberal: a power worshipper without power. George Orwell
The remarks made about the in
March 31, 2007 - 23:43 ET by M J BThe remarks made about the integrity of hot steel as apposed to burning wood are correct . Laminated wooden beams are the choice for smaller buildings as hot steel will bend & collapse .
The controvacy could & should have have been stopped in it's tracks & the conspiracy theory debunked.
If there has been a conspiracy it has been to allow the 911 "theorists" to carry on & divert attention away from questioning the reasons for the Iraq war & occupation.
The questions to which you ar
April 1, 2007 - 00:34 ET by GregEThe questions to which you are likely referring were not asked because at the time of the gathering of reasons for taking military action in Iraq, the top Democrats were also of the mindset that Saddam had to be removed, that he was dangerous, and that he had a massive weapons program of chemical and biological weapons with a nuclear capability not far away. The liberal media was not going to question that which was being said, since many of their liberal friends were saying it. It was only after it began to appear that everything was not going according to the tenets of a utopia that those same Democrats began to calculate how they were going to reverse their earlier words without allowing for the public realization of their reversing their earlier words. When they had decided how they could successfully achieve that and convince most people that they never said what they said for the reasons that they said, they began the quest to undermine the war in Iraq and use their calculated methods of not appearing to have had any part in our going into a military war in Iraq. Many people, acting as the sheep that they are, were convinced, and didnt and won't question the reasons for the Democrats denying the intentions of their pre-IraqWar statements and mindset.
As for occupation. What's there to question? The enemy continues their fight, and when your enemy continues to fight you, you can run away, or you can stay and fight and obliterate that enemy. The obliteration is something that we've not done, having done things with kid gloves and restraint, in the general and overall sense of course. But if you are questioning "occupation," as you put it, with the implication that we should leave Iraq, then I disagree with that notion, as Iraq is a main, if not the main, front in a war against Islamic radicalism. Ask Iran, and ask al Qaeda, if they would like to take ownership of a nation with vast oil reserves, rebuildable infrastructure, etc, etc.
Iran and al Qaeda would love for us to leave Iraq to them. I personally don't agree with Iran and al Qaeda's wants in this situation, and I hope that you don't either. I don't think that they have our best interests in mind.
Occupation
April 1, 2007 - 09:57 ET by NortoBeliever
This was never meant to be one, but if we could get some recompense for expense and lost life for cleaning up and making that area of the world a safer place, then let's take some oil for it. Oil is,by the way, a national security issue mainly because the libs will not let any alternative to be pursued. Wind power? Oh No, spoils the view, especially from the kennedy compound bedrooms. Ugh, it goes on.
I personally hold MSM and the dems responsible for much of what negative is occuring in that area. Every time I see a soldier in uniform, I walk up to them and make sure they know we are praying for them daily, if not more often!
The reason the antis can afford to diss the mission and not the troops? They have figured out the military voting block is small enough that they can ignore it. Voting blocks is what this is all about.
Too sickening for a Sabbath.
If this were a Monty Python
April 1, 2007 - 00:59 ET by radiofitz34If this were a Monty Python film, I'm sure at some point someone would have said, off with her head then. But I guess that would be politically incorrect... so what! Screw PC.
One tip: don't read the Rea
April 1, 2007 - 06:46 ET by picofaradpjfOne tip: don't read the Reader Commets on the article. The comments from the conspiracy believer nutjobs will make your head explode.
Damn. Too late... ~~~If H
April 2, 2007 - 00:05 ET by Tom1969caDamn. Too late...
~~~
If Hillary is the answer, it must've been a stupid question...
I just had a random thought
April 1, 2007 - 23:26 ET by Tom1969caI just had a random thought about the whole WTC7 controversy...
WTC7 came down several hours after the attacks, and (if I'm not mistaken) had been completely evacuated. In my mind, this raises two questions:
Seems like WTC7 has maybe been a straw man argument from the get-go -- come up with something conspiracy moonbats say cannot be explained (despite the facts that (a) it's irrelevant and (b) it can be explained), and then say that the inexplicable something is "proof" that we're not being told the truth.
~~~
If Hillary is the answer, it must've been a stupid question...
R.O.Z is making about as mu
April 2, 2007 - 09:33 ET by MightyMouthR.O.Z is making about as much sense as those trying to prove a person is a Witch in Monty Pythons The Holy Grail. And, her cheering audience, is as stupid as the gullable peseants. "BURN THE WITCH!"
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Rosie's Mouth
April 2, 2007 - 09:18 ET by rpkinmdRosie makes several absolutely false statements; like fire never melted steel. Does she not know how steel is made? If she has said a fire in a building does not normally melt steel she might have had a defensible position.
Every steel frame building has the steel frame treated with structural fire protection (insulation) precisely because even in normal building fires the temperature can and does reach the temperature where steel looses its physical properties and "becomes like rubber."
Her second major error was stating that she wishes some one would do a study as to what really happened. The structural failure of the twin towers have been examined by commissions of technical experts, every engineering and architectural society and every engineering faculty of ever major university. The reason is to determine the failure mode so new designs can protect against that failure.
The only thing bigger than Rosie’s mouth is her ignorance.
The only thing bigger than
April 2, 2007 - 09:29 ET by Tom1969caYou sure about that? I'd have thought maybe her hips might be...
~~~
If Hillary is the answer, it must've been a stupid question...
The only thing bigger than
April 2, 2007 - 09:30 ET by Tom1969ca<...deleted double post...>
But all of this - steel doesn
April 2, 2007 - 10:09 ET by dahliatraversBut all of this - steel doesn't have to melt to catastrophically fail; the collapse of the WTC buildings has been thoroughly studied by experts/major universities - is worth repeating. Not everyone pays attention to all news sources all the time. So someone is inevitably enlightened when this information is put forth again.
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