The Los Angeles Times and Harper's have a bit of egg on their faces.
The Los Angeles Times ran an op-ed by Kitty Kelley last week claiming that no one in George W. Bush's extended family -- daughters, nieces or nephews -- has served in the military since his father's service in World War II.
The Bush family's supposed lack of military service is the entire focus of the op-ed.
Says Kelley: "The president tells us Iraq is a 'noble' war, but his wife, his children and his nieces and nephews are not listening. None has enlisted in the armed services, and none seems to be paying attention to the sacrifices of military families."
She also says: "The presidential nieces and nephews also have missed the memo on setting a good public example."
And then there's "[George H.W. Bush] flew 58 missions in two years and returned home a war hero. Since then, no one in his large family has seen fit to follow his sterling example of service and patriotism."
The Harper's magazine blog excerpted the piece, calling it "Kitty Kelley's can't miss op-ed." The blog is written by a former Los Angeles Times reporter, Ken Silverstein, who now is Washington Editor for Harper's.
A couple dozen liberal bloggers approvingly copied parts of the Kelley op-ed as well.
However, at the time the op-ed ran, George P. Bush, the President's nephew, was (and remains) in the U.S. Navy.
Oops.
P.S. [Added 3/30/07] Eleven days after running this op-ed, and eight days after an an AP wire story said George P. Bush and 14 others were "selected in February" for "the intelligence unit of the Navy reserves," the Los Angeles Times had not run a correction.
Issues perceived by the Times to be significant enough to warrant correction during the period included clearing up whether President Kennedy's second son died in April or August of 1963 and whether the son of E. Howard Hunt was 19 or 18 at the time of the Watergate break-in.
Comments Policy
d'oh!
March 28, 2007 - 23:13 ET by Dave PierreFact errors at the LA Times? I'm shocked, I tell ya'! </sarc>
I not only double your commen
March 28, 2007 - 23:18 ET by bigtimerI not only double your comment to that Dave Pierre...
I triple it!
She is a has been hack...Kelly is a charlatan....made her living at it.
So have the leftist papers!
Unfortunately there have been consequences from these enemies within.
All the more reason the Times
March 29, 2007 - 01:00 ET by Amy RidenourAll the more reason the Times should have known to fact-check her.
Sorry, I was going to mention
March 29, 2007 - 08:20 ET by msh1973Sorry, I was going to mention Prescott. Sometimes I don't read the entire blog.
A number of years ago when th
March 29, 2007 - 07:57 ET by danboA number of years ago when the citizens of Mississippi voted to retain it's state flag. The LA Times did a hit piece on the Mississippi Coast. Not much truth in it about the coast or in the story of the vote. Apparently the LA Times doesn't believe in letting facts get in the way of their agenda.
They stand by their story. Just like Dan Rather did.
BS is BS.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
Kitty Kelly..
March 29, 2007 - 02:01 ET by philly d kidderKitty Kelly is a Disgrace to all Irishmen....the LAT is very confusing.. Democrats are Anti America Anti Catholic and a little twisted
I find it odd she doesn't que
March 29, 2007 - 02:30 ET by rbosqueI find it odd she doesn't question the Clinton's patriotism (including his draft dodging), nor leading DNC folks or members of the Hollywierd elite. Perhaps they are too ashamed to admit any in their families are serving in the armed forces.
Liberal mantra on this subjec
March 29, 2007 - 07:10 ET by jcrapes4Liberal mantra on this subject goes like this.
1. You Warmongering Bush-Hitler lover should serve in the military. (If the person actually serves then see #2.
2. You Warmongering etc etc should be assigned to duty in Iraq if you support this war. If the person served in Iraq see #3.
3. You Warmongering etc etc What are you doing back in the United States if you support this war you should return to Iraq again. Repeat #3 for as many times the member actually was sent to Iraq.
Now if you really want to yank a liberals chain after being told this just ask the liberal when they are going to serve their country and protect their right to freedom of speech that they enjoy to have. Then walk away.
no, if you really want to sti
March 29, 2007 - 13:41 ET by Conservative in the Artsno, if you really want to stick it to them ask them: If you so believe that you're right, why don't you join the Human Shield movement? Go over to Iraq and live in a tent on top of a hospital or something so we can't bomb it.
Then tell them the story of american leftists from Human Shield went to Iraq before our invasion wanting to live on top of schools and hospitals and Mr. H put them in important military places with guards to keep them there.HS was quite pissed and left the country.
CITA,Didn't Sean Penn do the
March 29, 2007 - 17:17 ET by BlondeCITA,
Didn't Sean Penn do the human sheild thing prior to the kick-off GW1?
Too bad we didn't manage to strike that target!
All those shields resigned wh
March 29, 2007 - 17:55 ET by Dan The Man 2All those shields resigned when they found out they would be shot at. They were being asked to shield military targets I believe. Here is an exerpt of one account
Sites for the shields' deployment had not been determined prior to the shields' arrival and it soon became apparent that sites would be selected by Iraqi government officials wary of infiltration by Western spys. After two weeks of heated discussion, the shields were given a list of seven sites and an ultimatum to 'start shielding or start leaving'. The sites were all civilian infrastructure facilities including water treatment facilities, power stations and food silos, and were fully in keeping with the expressed objective of the shield group. Anyone who did not want to take residence in these sites would be helped with their passage out of Iraq.
The need to work closely with the Iraqi government was not something many of the shield volunteers felt comfortable with. Some felt that the list delivered by the officials compromised their autonomy. Others felt that they would rather be deployed in schools, hospitals and orphanages. These shield volunteers left Iraq. The rest took residence in the sites, a list of which was sent to the Coalition Joint Chiefs of Staff together with a request that they recognize that the targeting of these sites would be in violation of Art. 54 Protocol Additional to the Geneva Convention. There was no response to the letters and in the early hours of 18th March, the first day of the war, the Al Durah power station, home to twenty-three shield volunteers, was hit by a bomb.
By the time the convoy had reached Baghdad, there were some eighty shields on board. The flights from London carried a further sixty shields. Other groups also had people in Baghdad and more human shields flew in from around the world. At its peak the total of shield volunteers in Baghdad numbered about five hundred, but already some were starting to leave.
Thanks, Dan.I think Cindy She
March 29, 2007 - 18:07 ET by BlondeThanks, Dan.
I think Cindy Sheehan et. al. (Katie, Rosie, Keefy, etc.) ought to go help out with the shield thing.
Maybe in the Baghdad market. Certainly Al-Q wouldn't blow up their good buddies.
And if they did....I like it! Two birds with one stone, I am all for efficiency.
Hollyweed doesn't need to ser
March 29, 2007 - 08:04 ET by danboHollyweed doesn't need to serve in the armed forces. They play the parts soldiers. They pretend they were military. Therefore they have a higher understanding of the military. (Sarcasm off.)
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.” H.L. Mencken
(Sarcasm off.)No sarcasm at a
March 29, 2007 - 13:33 ET by Conservative in the Arts(Sarcasm off.)
No sarcasm at all, it's the truth!
Well, for one thing, none of
March 29, 2007 - 13:49 ET by waka wakaWell, for one thing, none of them invaded Iraq, "ran on the war" or insulted the patriotism of those who questioned the wisdom of it. Duh.
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
Well for three things....
March 29, 2007 - 19:36 ET by acumenYour first two points.......Er, Kosovo?
As far as your last point, that's probably because leftards only oppose wars by Republicans and Republicans have more class than to "insult" the patriotism of a war time president.
"idiot liberals" - congressman obey(me)
Fact errors at Newsbuster
March 29, 2007 - 08:30 ET by BillAdkinsI'm sure this little exercise has been fun for Amy Ridenour - but Amy, Kelley's (and I'm no fan of Kelley) column was published on March 19, 2007 - the announcement of George P.'s service was not until March 22, 2007. Was this an accidental or intentional omission, Ms Ridenour?
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
That's even more flea-brained than usual, Billy
March 29, 2007 - 09:10 ET by RJThat's even more flea-brained than usual Billy. George P's service did not begin on March 22, 2007. If Kelly was doing a hit piece on the Bush's military service, how hard would it have been to exercise journalistic responsibility and INVESTIGATE before making her claims?
I used to think we had seen the bottom of the barrel in stupid liberal posters, then along came Bill Adkins.
RJ,I hate to point this out.
March 29, 2007 - 09:26 ET by jcrapes4RJ,
I hate to point this out. I truly do however, Bill has a valid point. George P. Bush's service did not start until after the articles came out on the nets. Unless that is you have a source that I missed while trying to google stories about P's service entry.
Na, jc, what I said holds
March 29, 2007 - 09:40 ET by RJNah, jc, what I said holds. Kitty Kelly writes gotcha "journalism", and this was clearly a hit piece. A simple phone call to a Bush family spokesperson (as a "journalist", she must have access to those contacts) and simply asking would surely have revealed what George P. or any other Bush was doing vis a vis the military.
She had no interest in learning the facts. Hey, given her well-known penchant for lying, maybe she did know and just tried to get there "first."
Indeed! If kelley was trul
March 29, 2007 - 10:18 ET by daberkmanIndeed! If kelley was truly committed to journalism, she would have built a time machine, used the time maching to travel ahead 15 days and then use the time machine to go back and write a more accurate article. Instead she's just a lazy, non-time machine using, member of the liberal media elite.
PS as a navy vet, i would like to point out that guys in the navy consider guys in the navy reserves total p*ssies.
You're clearly a fool, daberkman.
March 29, 2007 - 10:32 ET by RJNo time machine needed. Today, in 2007, there are a wide range of resources available to journalists, even to lying "journalists" with the reputation of Kitty Kelly. (Your defensive post makes you sound like a fan.)
However, she didn't need anything more than access to that new device called a telephone. She didn't try to contact a Bush family spokesperson because she didn't want to know.
P.S. As a Navy vet, I can say that your dumb analysis, combined with your need to post crudities, clearly identify you as a total fool.
Given the Bush family's seemi
March 29, 2007 - 15:14 ET by waka wakaGiven the Bush family's seemingly genetic aversion to military service (save for H.W.), I think it was a pretty safe bet for Kelly to assume none of them were joining up any time soon. George P. is a refreshing deviation from the norm that caught us all by surprise.
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
Except, monkey boy, Kelly didn't even try
March 29, 2007 - 15:36 ET by RJExcept, monkey boy, Kelly apparently didn't even try, did she? Or maybe she did check and knew. As a known liar, she could have just gone ahead anyway. Either way, it was a hit piece and she got caught with her support hose down.
Speaking of a lack of truthfulness, your foolish adherence to the myth that GW Bush didn't serve tells everything about your own non-existant credibility.
Sooooo... Waka-Waka----The Re
March 29, 2007 - 17:29 ET by BDSooooo... Waka-Waka----
The Reserve is not military service? I will step out of my office and yell down the hall to my senior reserve instructor and inform him he is not currently in military service...
I think he will be awfully confused as am I.
Waka waka, newspaper writer
March 29, 2007 - 22:51 ET by Amy RidenourWaka waka, newspaper writers aren't supposed to "assume."
"Sixteen tons and whatta
March 29, 2007 - 22:54 ET by BillAdkins"Sixteen tons and whatta ya get? Another day older and deeper in the hole". Stop digging, Amy - it only makes you look more foolish.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Yes, you should be lecturin
March 29, 2007 - 22:59 ET by Free StinkerYes, you should be lecturing people about looking foolish.
Excuse me, Irony called, and they surrender.
I think it's deeper in debt
March 30, 2007 - 00:19 ET by Carl KolchakI think the correct Tennesse Ernie Ford quote is "deeper in debt" rather than "deeper in the hole"
"St. Peter don't you call me cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store" 'Sixteen Tons'
Carl Kolchak
March 30, 2007 - 00:24 ET by misterbillCarl, your words are correct, but I fear, wasted. Mister Bill Addlepate is here to make trouble, so he is selecting certain sentences from the responses and ignoring the other. Someone has called him a twit many times. What an appropriate name.
misterblill remember this one?
March 30, 2007 - 00:48 ET by Carl Kolchak"Sixteen Tons" is pretty cool. Do you remember this one by Jimmy Dean misterbill?
"Big John
Big John
Big bad John" 'Big Bad John'
daberkman...Im an Army vet, a
March 29, 2007 - 10:45 ET by bassndudedaberkman...Im an Army vet, and in the Army we considered everyone in the Navy, P*ssies.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Hey, watch it there, grunt!
March 29, 2007 - 10:48 ET by RJHey, watch it there, grunt! ;^>
LOL....sorry RJ...:-)Save a S
March 29, 2007 - 10:52 ET by bassndudeLOL....sorry RJ...:-)
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
ROTFL Bass.
March 29, 2007 - 19:29 ET by acumenROTFL Bass.
There might be some truth to your statement (which adds to the humor) but I can honestly say that you have never met a warrior until you have met a drunk sailor on shore leave.
bass & acumen
March 30, 2007 - 00:26 ET by misterbillYou are not being nice. Insulting sailors like that. You are just jealous that us sailors got all the women and you got warm beer.
You are being silly. George
March 29, 2007 - 10:04 ET by Amy RidenourYou are being silly. George P. Bush was in the Navy before the op-ed ran. Kelley wrote a piece repeatedly claiming no niece or nephew of the President was in the military. Unless she intentionally lied, for which we have no evidence, she apparently made the claim without first seeing if it were true.
Facts don't become facts only when they are reported on newswires. Had Kelley written, "I have seen no news story claiming a niece or nephew is in the military," she would have been in the clear, but she didn't. She pretended she knew something she hadn't checked out, and the Los Angeles Times didn't fact-check her work (again, unless she lied to them about her sources, but we have no reason to believe that happened).
Did the Los Angeles Times run a correction on this piece now that George P.'s Navy enlistment has run on the wires?
My guess -- and I caution it is nothing more than a guess -- is that Kelley relied on old information. She wrote a book on the Bushes that was published in 2004. At that point, no niece or nephew of Bush was in the military.
However, I must admit that, for all I know, she lied flat-out.
I think it is scandalous that newspapers print apparently anything they like under cover of their editorial pages.
How is that being silly? D
March 29, 2007 - 10:22 ET by daberkmanHow is that being silly? Do you have any proof that George P. Bush was enlisted before it was reported? You would think that's the sort of thing that would be reported immediately as it happened.
Without proof, it's YOU who " intentionally lied, for which we have no evidence," or "apparently made the claim without first seeing if it were true."
Hence, do you have any proof as to the date of enlistment, are you lying or making a real mistake?
Doesn't take a crack research
March 29, 2007 - 19:26 ET by Amy RidenourDoesn't take a crack researcher, Daberkman, to notice that the wire stories make it clear that George P. Bush was selected by the Navy to serve in the intelligence unit of the Navy reserves in FEBRUARY. So it's not like he showed up at a recruiting office the day after Kelley's piece ran.
Give it up. The woman wrote an op-ed that wasn't accurate and the Los Angeles Times either didn't fact-check her, or she lied to them about her information.
Have you seen any corrections in the Los Angeles Times since the wire story about George P. Bush being in the Navy ran nationally a few days after the Kelley op-ed was published?
If they did not run a correction, they should have, don't you agree?
Amy,We're the ones who need t
March 29, 2007 - 19:39 ET by BlondeAmy,
We're the ones who need to "give it up".
The libs here will never bother to acknowledge the truth. Typical.
You notice daberkman insists George P. "enlisted".
Officers don't enlist.
As a Floridian, I read about this a while back....and what I recall is that George P. didn't want his service to be publicized....it was a private matter. (I suspect he is going to be a politician to be reckoned with in another five to ten years, lucky Floridan me!!! And I say that with all gratitude to his father, whom I would prefer as a third term gov. to the RINO Crist we have now).
So although the fact that George P. joined the Naval Reserve was not "in the public record"...you are spot-on that Kitty Kelly was (as is usual for her brand of smack....she's written a bunch of silly books) just shooting from the hip without adequate fact checking.
Blonde, you are so right.
March 29, 2007 - 21:26 ET by Amy RidenourBlonde, you are so right.
It is a stupid argument, too -- this is a black and white issue of accuracy. Daberkman is arguing in favor of factual inaccuracies in newspapers.
One almost might think the liberals think they do better when the truth isn't told...
Oh, Amy....You are killing me
March 29, 2007 - 21:42 ET by BlondeOh, Amy....
You are killing me.
the liberals think they do better when the truth isn't told....
You're a conservative....what do you not understand about...."it depends upon what the meaning of the word is is?"
Hell's bells. This country is becoming an idiot parade.
Please. "Is", is...for those of us on the right.
Is....kinda isn't...for those on the touchy, feely left (I should have left the spaces out of that...the touchfeelyleft).
Amy, your blog was fab. Much enjoyed.
Except for the fact that the majority of the sheep accept Kitty Kelly as the gospel truth.
If the world is becoming an i
March 29, 2007 - 21:46 ET by BillAdkinsIf the world is becoming an idiot parade, blonde, you are the grand marshal.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Bill, how do you hide the lobotomy scars?
March 29, 2007 - 23:30 ET by Free StinkerBill, how do you hide the lobotomy scars?
misterbill is here on a drive through
March 30, 2007 - 00:04 ET by misterbill"Bill, (Adkins) how do you hide the lobotomy scars?"
Easy, he keeps his pants on all the time!
Sorry, bill,My world is a par
March 29, 2007 - 23:34 ET by BlondeSorry, bill,
My world is a parade.
And you are the sorry little troll who cleans up behind the beautiful palomino horses in the parade.
You are such a nasty little twit.
Your efforts at insulting me are becoming more laughable by the moment.
Care to try again?
Sheep is right.Heck, we are
March 29, 2007 - 23:25 ET by Amy RidenourSheep is right.
Heck, we aren't even criticizing Kelley for claiming that no one in the President's extended family pays attention to the sacrifices of military families, or exhibits patriotism equal to that of George H.W. Bush. How the heck can she know which members of the Bush family are the most patriotic? Is there a brain scan that can be done for that kind of thing? If so, how on earth did it end up in the hands of Kitty Kelley and the Los Angeles Times?
Amy,Pleaaaaseee....Kitty Kell
March 29, 2007 - 23:39 ET by BlondeAmy,
Pleaaaaseee....Kitty Kelly has written best sellers about Princess Di and the rest of the Royals!
No truth scans apply to someone with that "journalistic" cred. Sheesh.
What are you? Some kind of conservative truth teller? How dare you require sources? Why aren't you on board with the reality of an agenda?
And you call yourself a journalist?
<Okay Amy...I'm just kidding, obviously>
But the point(s) stands.
As you well know.
Regards.
Blonde - Urgh! you called
March 29, 2007 - 23:52 ET by Amy RidenourBlonde - Urgh! you called me a "journalist"! Fighting words! ;-)
No, I'm usually in a branch of writing that uses a quaint little thing called a "footnote." I posted in Newsbusters once that newspapers should require them from their contributors and writers, and publish them on a website. Would do a world of good for accuracy. Nobody wants to, though the first paper to do it would score a publicity and credibility coup at no cost to themselves but grumbling in the newsroom. Since newsrooms always grumble, no loss.
That said, I take your point. To many liberals, reality is a construct.
Too bad they're not engineers.
Best regards.
Amy,Abject apologies.Ah, you
March 30, 2007 - 00:01 ET by BlondeAmy,
Abject apologies.
Ah, you are a scholar....unlike the idiot journalists (again, mea culpa).
It matters not. You, my friend, have a most salient point.
No Oblio's for you!
George P's Navy service wasn'
March 29, 2007 - 21:36 ET by BillAdkinsGeorge P's Navy service wasn't announced until March 22, 2007, Amy -google it and you'll come up with repeated version of the same AP story and they cite politico.com as the souirce. As to corrections, it's time you ran one -- the first rule when you're in a hole is stop digging. You were wrong - admit it.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Gee Bill, you fool,Don't you
March 29, 2007 - 21:49 ET by BlondeGee Bill, you fool,
Don't you think "P" signed up before it was announced?
Thank you for playing.
BTW, what's it to you?
You are about the dimmest troll we've had here.
Wow, Blonde - and I'll bet yo
March 29, 2007 - 21:52 ET by BillAdkinsWow, Blonde - and I'll bet you read your tea leaves and called Kitty and told her all about it, right? You are about the dumbest blonde I've ever seen.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Gee, Blonde, you dumb clairvoyant
March 29, 2007 - 21:53 ET by BillAdkinsWow, Blonde - and I'll bet you read your tea leaves and called Kitty and told her all about it, right? You are about the dumbest blonde I've ever seen.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Wow, Bill,I bet your right ha
March 29, 2007 - 21:57 ET by BlondeWow, Bill,
I bet your right hand has spasms about now.
And your left hand, too.
If that's the only insult you can come up with, little troll.....
You are pathetic.
Don't waste your breath on th
March 29, 2007 - 22:12 ET by Airforce_5_ODon't waste your breath on this guy Blonde.
He hasn't got the sense God gave a Turnip seed.
In the words of my Father (God rest his soul) "He couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel."
Thanks, AF.The whole MRC thin
March 29, 2007 - 22:43 ET by BlondeThanks, AF.
The whole MRC thing is now working properly..it's kind of fun.
So who cares about Bill (slapping himself in the face)....
Rush is about to be introduced....catch ya'll in a while.
BTW....your "turnipseed" pleased me to no end....Thanks!
Hey, Billy, you fleabrain, choke on this.
March 29, 2007 - 22:21 ET by RJHey, Billy, you fleabrain. Since Kittly Kelly, the "Lying Journalist" was writing about members of the Bush family in the military, all she had to do was pick up the phone and call a Bush family spokesperson and ask about the current status or intent of family members. As a "journalist" she would have access to those contacts.
But she was too dumb or too dishonest to do that, so she got caught with her panty hose down. Naturlly, as a member of the Kitty Kelly fan club you're too stupid or too dishonest to realize that.
I used to think we had seen the bottom of the barrel for stupid liberal posters. Then Bill Adkins showed up.
I for one defend Bill's right
March 29, 2007 - 22:26 ET by NeoConfirmedI for one defend Bill's right to have a brain that is flea sized.
BillA
March 29, 2007 - 22:31 ET by gfrrmanApparently you don't keep up on current events. I'd be careful citing Politico.com as a "source" as they have been discredited(they lied/made it up) twice in a matter of weeks. You might as well cite Wikipedia.
I used to think rhayes was the dumbest NB poster~then along came BillAdkins.
Gffrrman has proven himself a fool
March 29, 2007 - 22:43 ET by BillAdkins"Word of his selection was reported earlier Wednesday by the political Web site The Politico" cited by your favorite, Fox News, fool. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260399,00.html Thanks for playing - and the laugh.
I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.
Speaking of fools
March 29, 2007 - 22:55 ET by gfrrmanBillAdkins, NEVER, I repeat NEVER have I EVER sited Fox News for ANY source in my intire life! So thanks for playin the incompetent FOOL that you are.
I used to think that rhayes was the dumbest NB poster~ then along came BillAdkins.
Bill Adkins, are you smokin
March 29, 2007 - 23:10 ET by Amy RidenourBill Adkins, are you smoking or drinking something? Things happen when they happen, not only from the first point at which they receive media coverage.
If we assume, for the sake of argument, that a newswire story has never been run about you, you nonetheless exist. Likewise, George P. Bush was following his grandfather's "sterling example of service and patriotism" (as Kelley put it) before the news story ran about his selection for Naval intelligence.
Of course, it is always possible that you don't exist at all. That would explain your logic.
I will gladly admit both my
March 30, 2007 - 15:16 ET by daberkmanI will gladly admit both my error and that of the LA Times if you could just provide a link to where "wire stories make it clear that George P. Bush was selected by the Navy
to serve in the intelligence unit of the Navy reserves in FEBRUARY."
Otherwise I stand by my contention that this is really lazy media watchdog work.
Good grief. The Associated P
March 30, 2007 - 22:22 ET by Amy RidenourGood grief. The Associated Press ran it. It pops up under Google under "George P. Bush." It is not hidden.
The AP's sentence "The 15 were selected in February by a panel of Navy officers who considered their qualifications, skills and education" makes it clear that Kelley was wrong to write, and the Los Angeles Times wrong to publish, on March 19, that no niece or nephew of the President "has seen fit to follow [George H.W. Bush's] sterling example of [military] service."
By the way, I checked tonight. The Los Angeles Times still has not run a correction, 11 days after the original error and eight days after the Associated Press story contradicting Kelley.
What? So serving in the res
March 29, 2007 - 10:37 ET by BDWhat?
So serving in the reserves no longer counts as military service to the leftists? Hell, I remember most of them in the 1970's wanted to do away with the active military and ONLY have the reserve.
Military Service
March 29, 2007 - 11:41 ET by vietnam_era_vetA few things.
1. Serving in the reserves is not the same as
the active military. I was drafted and served during Vietnam and we
all knew (and reservists readily admitted this) that serving in the
reserves was legal draft dodging, not much more). Today George Bush
Jr. with a cowardly Congress' tolerance uses the reserves as a draft).
My niece is in the reserves and has been to Iraq, what she tells me
makes it sound worse than Vietnam since at least we got training.
2. Kelley was correct when she wrote the column. Kelley's column
was published with a dateline of 19Mar2007 and the Navy RESERVE (sorry
bud, not the real military) announced on 21Mar2007 the selection of
George Bush Jr.'s nephew for training as an intelligence officer. He is going to have TWO WEEKS of officer indoctrination (e.g. learn how to salute) then a year of intelligence
training, initially assigned to duty near his home. Even drafted
grunts in the Army got NINE WEEKS of basic training and duty location
assigned to the needs of the military. Do you not see the difference
why the reserves are not the same as serving in the active military?
3. Please do not be ridiculous, with asserations about doing away
with active military in the U.S. Name one responsible person who
suggested that in the U.S. Some of us vets who were alive and served
then get pissed at B.S. pronouncements of the time. E.g. vets were not
'spit on' when we returned from overseas, if we were there would be a
lot of assaults and battery arrests from that time on the records
describing that and there are essentially none. We were not greeted
with parades but we were certainly respected by most people in and out
of the media. Could one or two nutbags yelled/spat at people? Sure.
Did it happen regulary? Of course not, hence the lack of arrests since
I can guarantee that when one comes home from overseas fresh from a
couple years in the military one does not take much B.S. in that
direction.
"http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070322-0515-bush-navyreserves.html"
Nevertheless, it's a specious
March 29, 2007 - 11:53 ET by mattmNevertheless, it's a specious argument to say that unless you or your family members have "served" you can't support the war.
The Chicken Hawk argument may win Jr. High debates, but it holds no water in the real world.
You're a bitter guy, 'nam vet
March 29, 2007 - 12:03 ET by RJ1. You're obviously a bitter, bitter man. You're also a perfect example of why the current military is so much better than the draft system that brought in you and your kind. I know I wouldn't want you on my team. The vast majority of the current military is pro-America, wants to serve, is proud of their service, and leans strongly conservative. You represent the reason the leftists cry for returning the draft....they know it would give whiners like you a voice. Today's military doesn't want you, either.
2. Kelly could have easlily called a Bush family representative and ASKED if she was correct in her assumptions. That she didn't perform even that basic piece of investigative journalism shows that she was only interested in writing yet another hit piece, and truth be damned.
3. Vets not spit on or assulted? There are too many who have stepped up with personal accounts of that to be able to deny it...that is, except for official deniers like you. I notice you claim you served "during viet nam." Your bitterness might hold more water if you actually served in country.
P.S. As a case in point, ther
March 29, 2007 - 12:15 ET by bassndudeP.S. As a case in point, there were 5,760 members of the military reserves that were casualties in Vietnam. Not the real military? Tell those men that. Their families may take issue with you.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
The only good vets are Republ
March 29, 2007 - 15:49 ET by waka wakaThe only good vets are Republican vets. The rest are just flunkies who got drafted. And I'm sure YOU served, right RJ?
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
Why do you assume, monkey boy?
March 29, 2007 - 16:00 ET by RJWhy do you assume we think the only good vets are Republican? Why do you assume vets think that way? You just expose your ignorance of the military (big shock), where value is placed on ability and reliability, not affiliation.
Actually, I know quite a few vets (friends, acquaintences and family), and my family are the only ones whose party affiliation I know.
You totally misunderstood me,
March 29, 2007 - 16:21 ET by waka wakaYou totally misunderstood me, dude. I was pointing out how you guys preach so sanctimoniously about supporting our veterans then pull out the shiv for the next vet who doesn't pay fealty to King George.
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
I didn't misunderstand you...dude
March 29, 2007 - 16:28 ET by RJI didn't misunderstand you...dude. You were, as usual, making a smarmy crack. If (instead of assuming once again), you bothered to read the thread, you'd see that viet-era-vet's phony post was ripped apart, not for his political position, but for his obvious misrepresentations.
waka...you dont seem to under
March 29, 2007 - 16:32 ET by bassndudewaka...you dont seem to understand, that there are a lot of vets out there that do not agree with each other. There are also alot of folks posting on here that claim to be vets, but lack the knowledge that any vet would possess. You can claim to be anything here, but there are those who served in and during vietnam, and experienced the actions that the supposed vet sayes dident happen. Knowledge is priceless. And those who will espouse supposed facts, and then run and do not defend said posts, I have to doubt the honesty of the poster. Thus, the shiv you speak of. I did not attack the political view of said vet. Simply pointed out his errors.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Wow RJ...You are now official
March 29, 2007 - 16:29 ET by bigtimerWow RJ...
You are now officially a dude!
Totally!
Like, wow, man... ;^>
March 29, 2007 - 16:31 ET by RJLike, wow, man... ;^>
RJ..Seems vev is a lilliepad
March 29, 2007 - 16:40 ET by bigtimerRJ..
Seems vev is a lilliepad type....
Cut and run...
LMAO!
viet era...there were reserve
March 29, 2007 - 12:07 ET by bassndudeviet era...there were reservests in the RVN. Knew some. The ones I knew were involved in intelligence. Mostly in Siagon, but there was one Lt. in Pleiku, working with MACV. There were also Coast Guard in country. Mostly in the Delta region. There was one guy I met on the plane going over for my 3rd tour, he was National Guard. Dont know the story on him, but then again, it dosent matter. The fact is, that the reserves, national gurad or coast guard is not a ticket to a non combat, never deployed tour in the military. By the way, you might be suprised how many air gurad and air force reserves served in country. Perhaps 25% of the pilots were air reserve.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
viet era vet...your post is l
March 29, 2007 - 12:37 ET by bassndudeviet era vet...your post is littered with mistakes. I dont know if it is because of the agent orange, or just your memory. Basis was 8 weeks, AIT was 9 weeks, later shortened to 8 weeks, for infantry, 3 weeks jump school, and 8 weeks ranger school. Thats if you chose that route. I dont know where your point of entry was, but in sunny california, you unloaded off the plane on the tarmac, got on a bus where the let you out at a gate. There was a chain link fence walk way. It wasent raining, and we could not get through the 10 foot fence to "disperse the crowd". Had we been able to get to them, there would have been fewer protesters to protest. So your assertion that we did not get spit on because of the assult numbers are not there. Fact is, we were seperated by those little cowards by a big fence. You think that they would have done such things if they were not protected? Ha! I am beginning to think you were never there, probably 4F.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Agree, Bass
March 29, 2007 - 12:54 ET by RJBass, notice he said he served "during Viet Nam." Also notice he repeatedly used the generic "we", and never said "I" when referring to going or returning. Add in the mistakes you caught, and I suspect that even IF he was in the military at the time, he wasn't anywhere near Viet Nam.
I don't care if he served and wasn't there...except...if he wasn't, his belligerant attitude and his apparent lies demean the honorable people who were....sorta like John Kerry bailing on his group and then demeaning them later.
Considering how heavily the A
March 29, 2007 - 13:05 ET by jcrapes4Considering how heavily the Army is using the Guard the line between reserves and Active Duty is blurred until this conflict is won. There is no shame in being USNR. Officers in the USNR quite often serve on active duty then after some time goes by they can decide to change their designation to USN vs USNR. Been out of service too long to remember the benfit and drawbacks switching from USNR to USN while serving as an officer. Granted I would have been more impressed had George P. enlisted as an Hospital Corpsman:):):):):)
BTW RJ point taken about Kitty having access to other sources about George's new service to this country.
RJ..from his post, and just s
March 29, 2007 - 13:20 ET by bassndudeRJ..from his post, and just scanning over it, I would say he was one of the protesters spitting when I came back. I doubt he ever served, but if he was drafted, he may have had a medical problem that weeded him out during or before basic. Perhaps during inprocessing. You must take notice of the crickets churping sence his last post. hit and run? I bet hes good at that.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
vev, We were not greetedwit
March 29, 2007 - 16:11 ET by bigtimervev,
We were not greeted
with parades but we were certainly respected by most people in and out
of the media. Could one or two nutbags yelled/spat at people? Sure.
Did it happen regulary?
Oh puhleeeeeeeeeze!
Either you are not telling the truth or you were blind.
I remember well how the men were treated coming home...respect is not a word I would use very much! The media loving the men...oh puhleeeeeze! The reason the no good ungrateful b#stard$ weren't arrested for spitting, throwing, cussing and everything else.....oh puhleeeeeze!
You are full of it...along with all of the points in your post as far as I am concerned.
Your assertion that serving i
March 29, 2007 - 17:43 ET by BDYour assertion that serving in the reserve was akin to dodging the draft is specious. By that logic, I as a former infantryman could assess that all personnel in the Navy have dodged the draft since their level of danger is lesser than mine. But since I will not bring up the Relitivity of REMFDOM, this particular argument is DONE.
Please explain to me how the reserve equates to a draft? The Reserve serves avital function that I am very glad to have access to in my day to day job. We are currently using trained personnel in the manner with which they are appropriate. (My deputy is currently a reservist and has not qualms with the manner in which he was mobilized.)
Your niece did not receive training at either CMTC, NTC, JRTC, or homestation? I doubt that as on both occasions I have deployed I, and everyone I deployed with received excellent training. regarding the current situation in Iraq, it is hardly Vietnam in intensity as is plainly evident in the casualty rates incurred for idenitcal periods of time. Currently we are losing 750+ personnel on average for each year in Iraq. Seeing as how the casualty rates for Vietnam were significantly higher, what happens to your argument?
Once again you have denigrated the reserves by downplaying their commitment. You state that the two week school to teach George P Bush makes him inferior. I will now bring up my former deputy from a previous deployment overseas who was a Navy reservist who attended just such a "Knife and Fork School" as we called it. He was just as vital to our mission (Possibly more so since he was our only navy officer and could speak "Squid") as the rest of my team which contained both active and reserve personnel.
Actually, regarding