For today's lesson in bias by labeling, class, turn to today's "Annapolis Notebook" in the March 28 Washington Post.
It's there that reporter Lisa Rein skewed her portrayal of a debate over tuition for illegal aliens in favor of the liberal Democrats in the Maryland General Assembly, with everything from watering down the label "illegal immigrant" to painting Republicans as angry partisans and Democrats as righteously angry protecters of the underprivileged.
While the headline reads: "House Heats Up Over Bill to Give Illegal Immigrants In-State Tuition," Rein herself chooses the term "undocumented immigrants," even though, well, they apparently must have enough documentation to prove they've lived in Maryland for a "length of time" under the proposed legislation:
One of the most emotional debates of the Maryland General Assembly session came shortly after 8 p.m. Monday as the House of Delegates took up a bill to allow undocumented immigrants who have lived in Maryland for a length of time to pay in-state tuition at state universities and community colleges.
They currently must pay out-of-state tuition.
Keep that in mind for later. Illegal immigrants aren't barred from state colleges and universities. They simply must pay out-of-state tuition, which is still quite a bargain regionally.
Republican opponents said the General Assembly would be sanctioning illegal immigration and take away in-state spots from minority students who are legal residents of Maryland.
Del. Patrick L. McDonough (R-Baltimore County) told his colleagues, "We are aiding and abetting people who are in this state illegally." His voice rose in anger. "Welcome to Maryland. We are a sanctuary state. We will provide services to you. We will break the rule of law."
Yeah, McDonough asked for it alright. He kindled the righteous wrath of Democratic lawmakers:
The comments infuriated many Democrats, who rose to speak for the bill. The most eloquent was Del. Melvin L. Stukes (D-Baltimore), who spoke with the fervor of a preacher. He compared opposition to undocumented students with the 1700s view of slaves as less than human.
"Do I need anyone to remind me of the mind-set that existed then and still exists today, that some people were considered three-fifths of a human being?" Stukes asked, his voice rising. "Are we still saying that some people are less than whole? I don't think so."
Stein didn't find a rebuttal to that line of reasoning, although it's outright foolish. Kids from New York to New Delhi attend Maryland colleges and universities and pay out-of-state tuition. Does Stukes think they are regarded as "less than whole" persons under Maryland's laws and constitution?
Rein closed her article with the vote tally. The bill passed 81-57 in the House of Delegates and "now goes to the Senate, where its prospects are uncertain." She failed to note that if passed, some Democratic backers of the bill believe liberal Gov. Martin O'Malley is likely to sign the bill.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Standards of Journalism
March 28, 2007 - 14:39 ET by E4PukeAre not the tenants of journalism to keep the American public informed? Last time I checked there is no mainstream reporting going on about the huge influx of illegal immigrants coming across our borders. Show us the hospitals getting closed in LA due to illegals flooding them and not paying. Go there on a friday night and show us what is happening in our own country. When an immigrant kills a US citizen I do not want to see just the name and the murder victim, I want to know if he is illegal so i know if the border patrol and the US government is doing the job my tax dollars are paying for by keeping our borders secure. No all this goes out the window in the favor of political correctness.Too much effort I guess for the Washington Post to send a reporter to Herndon or have him drive on Route 1 and see hundreds of illegal immigrants standing on the side of the road waiting for work. These are things average US citizens are seeing, but are impossible to see from the windows of 20 story buildings in New York while drinking champaigne. These are things that should be reported to us, but instead are being hidden.
E4Puke,Too much effort I gu
March 28, 2007 - 15:13 ET by tnculpE4Puke,
This is the argument that I made to my wife recently. She wondered why, if the media keeps pushing this pro-amnesty, pro-illegal, no-borders rhetoric, why do the people so highly favor tough immigration reform? Borders, heavy fines, etc... It's because the majority of us SEE EVERYDAY what a large group of people not assimilating can do and has done to many communities around the Nation.
Ok, screw the Washington Post
March 28, 2007 - 15:13 ET by mostlymoderateOk, screw the Washington Post! How idiotic is it to give instate tuition to a bunch of illegals. Every company that is against illegal-aliens should pull advertising dollars from this discraceful tabloid and the bile that inks such ridiculous Mexican propaganda. What, is this tabloid on the payrol of the Mexican government or something? What about the poor kids that are ALREADY legal citizens that need help for college. Why are liberals fighting for non-citizens?
Let's see, they stand up for Iranians, they stand up for terrorists, they stand up for criminals/illegal aliens. They must want total destruction of the United States of America as we know it.
I am mad. NO MORE ILLEGALS!
http://www.evansayet.com/poli
March 28, 2007 - 15:25 ET by truth_missilehttp://www.evansayet.com/politik.shtml - "Liberals hate America. They are not only wrong, they are as wrong as wrong can be."
In their utopian world view, only by destroying America can we all live in peace. This includes destroying our culture, destroying our borders, destroying our language, destroying our military.. you name it.
Think about that while you still have the opportunity to vote.
It's really like "bizarro wor
March 28, 2007 - 15:36 ET by mostlymoderateIt's really like "bizarro world". How can anyone defend an illegal-alien? It's bad enough that America has to flip the bill on medical for invaders, but to send them to our overcrowded college campuses is INSANE. Have you been to a State college classroom lately?? Here in California, some of the required classes have 200 students per CLASS!
I said it before folks and I will say it again, illegal-immigration is perhaps the GREATEST threat to America as we have ever seen.
mostly BS as usual
March 28, 2007 - 16:36 ET by tumbler_2007Nobody "defends" illegal immigrants. The problem is there, but not as if it's ever going to be the GREATEST threat to America we have ever seen.
You're entitled to bloviate unreasonably about this problem. This is a free country, after all. But you know very well this is no life-altering or insurmountable problem for America.
Furthermore; you have NO reason to claim that illegal aliens in our country resulted in 200-student classrooms. No reasonable estimate EXISTS to substantiate this hyperbolic charge. You're one of countless Americans who listen to very biased, stupid reports. You fell for an urban myth.
Oh come on, Tumbler. I have
March 28, 2007 - 17:15 ET by mostlymoderateOh come on, Tumbler. I have read your posts before and I know where you stand on this issue. My question is WHY? You are a "legal" immigrant (as am I) and your family has probably been in America for many generations. FANTASTIC!! GREAT! My question for you is why you stand up for "illegal" immigration? Don't you think "illegal" immigration is a major concern for law-abiding citizens?
Isn't Switzerland a very wealthy Nation? Why don't I just sneak into their country and then demand a college education. Better yet Tumbler, why don't I sneak into Switzerland and demand healthcare for my "baby" (which I will have as soon as I get into the country). Then, I will demand ALL public offices to put paperwork in my language as well as their own: ENGLISH. Then, I am NEVER going to register as a citizen because I don't want the government of Switzerland to tax my "under-the-table" earnings. Meanwhile, I will send 70% of my earnings back to the United States so my family can move to Switzerland when THEY get a chance. Tumbler, be reasonable. We are not talking about stopping "immigration" we are simply demanding that immigrants go through the immigration process, like your family did and my family did. :-)
P.S. Have you seen South Central Los Angeles lately? I drive through there everyday to get to my office. It's like a BIG-TIJAUNA!!
Great analogy, mostlymoderate
March 28, 2007 - 17:55 ET by RJThat's a great Switzerland analogy, mostlymoderate, but don't expect Tumbeler to accept it. The only "analogies" he accepts are the ones he makes to equate those who discuss the illegal alien problem to Nazis, brownshirts and the SS.
a dumb analogy
March 28, 2007 - 18:43 ET by tumbler_2007MM, it's an unfair analogy, and R J BS is full of it.
He's lying, as well. I have never confronted anybody for "discussing the illegal alien problem." What a crock ! We have been doing it today. I only confront people who LIE to us about the "dangers" of illegal immigration, or try to promote draconian measures against those who come here illegally. Injustice, sometimes. -- I've been consistently offering suggestions and instead of hearing me they slink back and lie about ME. This arse whole, RJ BS, insists I came here from La Raza, a radical group I can't even stand ! I've stated the truth, that I reject that gang, I reject the Liberals and their pandering to hispanics and Mexican-Americans. I urge our GOP to wake up and start giving better attention to the growing voting bloc which Spanish-speaking Americans LEGAL citizens, who VOTE-- and end the persistent hate speech so we can bring some of them into the Party. --Nobody listens.
They are motivated only by one thing: hatred. Especially R J BS. He keeps harking back to the Nazi anaology I made a few months ago. Here it is:
When we promote and incite hatred in our people, against a helpless ethnic minority, we follow in the example of the Nazis of 1930s Germany. They hated the Jews and saw them as sub humans and leeches.
We allow many racists in our society to get away with promoting the same kind of hatred and injustice against Mexicans and hispanics. The pretext of doing so because they're illegal is no excuse for HATRED. Racial hatred is repulsive and an offense against God. --That's what R J BS is furious about; He's dishonest to the core. The Switzerland analogy is far from suited to our discussion. Mexicans aren't destroying our country. They're actually quite innocuous.
Say, La CucaRaza, I see you left out the parts
March 28, 2007 - 18:57 ET by RJSay, La CucaRaza, I see you left out the parts where you called me a brownshirt, a member of the SS, and the many, many other times you called me a Nazi (but in your cowardly, mealymouth words, it was just an "analogy", right?). Let's not forget, Tumbles, that your rage began because I said you were behaving like a liberal.) ;^>
Since you're searching the archives, maybe for once you can come up with something, anything I've said that is racist? No?
RJ re:a certain apologist--
March 28, 2007 - 19:04 ET by misterbillI may not be a proctologist, but I sure know an a$$ho## when I read one, like tumsler.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
so both are cry babies ? Ha!
March 28, 2007 - 19:10 ET by tumbler_2007Thanks, mister billious; --No, Sir RJ BS. Never did call you a Nazi. That's for sure. Now; stop your belly aching; I think you're making a fool of yourself. You're whining, Pal.
It's all about YOU, Tumbler,
March 28, 2007 - 19:15 ET by RJAdmit it, Tumbler. It's all about YOU, not the Mexicans.
reminds me of carol channing
March 28, 2007 - 19:28 ET by tumbler_2007Wack a Doo, Wack a Doo! It's all about You, Wack a Doo !
She was a piece of work.
Doltish rebuttals
March 29, 2007 - 16:56 ET by schratboyI smell some home cooking from tumblehead and it smells like chilis.
First you blather about ignoring a voting bloc (pandering to the illegals?) and then ignoring helpless minorities, then invoking the drop-dead liberal "Nazi" label.
WTFU! People come here from Mexico because the country sucks and offering little or no opportunities for its people. The government is corrupt to the point where they can't take care of everyone and practically encourate the waves sweeping into the country ILLEGALLY. Voting Block? Dude, if you ain't legal you ain't voting. Do Hispanics (journo-created term) want their friends and family here for one big party and get together? Hell yes! Are they a majority among voters? Hell No.
Generations of people have become Americans the right way. They've done it through formal channels (not via back-seat, pick-up truck night time coyote runs). They contribute to the system and society rather than just suck off of it like a human-sized tick. Don't get me wrong, I think America is a hugely generous nation as are most people. But when most of us are busting our asses to earn money, pay rent and buy food and doctor's services while someone here illegally is jumping in line, visiting the emergency clinic (not speaking a freaking word of English), has no money and no way to pay for the services....well someone has to eat it. Again, I'd give anyone a pass if they need help but the illegals are doing all the taking and giving nothing back! Learning the language? Nope. Bettering their neighborhoods? Nope. Organizing community beautification projects? Nope.
The only thing innocuous here is your pitious point of view.
schratboy rants:
March 29, 2007 - 17:45 ET by tumbler_2007"I smell some home cooking from tumblehead and it smells like chilis." Tumbler: Mi casa es su casa, schshtbhy. Call me Tumbler --you're a head-first wanker.
"First you blather about ignoring a voting bloc (pandering to the illegals?) and then ignoring helpless minorities, then invoking the drop-dead liberal "Nazi" label." Tumbler: Great ! You read it ! That's all true. I never asked you to drop dead. Did a liberal call someone a Nazi ? This place is full of paranoids --
"People come here from Mexico -- the country sucks and offering little or no opportunities for its people. The government is corrupt to the point where they can't take care of everyone and practically encourag ?e the waves sweeping into the country ILLEGALLY. --"Tumbler: Correction ? Is a government supposed to "take care of everyone--?" That's communism, Bozo! Mexico's a democracy. You sound like a Lib. Mexico's really super; it ROCKS, as Bozoes like yourself say. There are many millions who stay there, since an opportunity is found when you have education. (Their education is better than ours, actually.) What arrives here is cheap labor, and we love cheap labor. Ask the ranchers & farmers. And, to me, Kid-- YOU seem corrupt. Too much glue ?
"Voting Block? Dude, if you ain't legal you ain't voting. Do Hispanics (journo-created term) want their friends and family here for one big party and get together? Hell yes! Are they a majority among voters? Hell No." -----Tumbler: Is schroolbooy's head up his @ss? Hell, yes ! Has he been wanking in the dark ? YEAH! A majority? Who knows? After our white chicks completely exterminate your DNA out of circulation, possibly. This is CHOICE, dontya know ? Hispanics & Mexicans are Pro-Life; Anglo Americans-- well, it depends. The way things look, soon the only babies born here will BE anchor babies! Lol!
"Generations of people have become Americans the right way. They've done it through formal channels (not via back-seat, pick-up truck night time coyote runs). They contribute to the system and society rather than just suck off of it like a human-sized tick. Don't get me wrong, I think America is a hugely generous nation as are most people. But when most of us are busting our asses to earn money, pay rent and buy food and doctor's services while someone here illegally is jumping in line, visiting the emergency clinic (not speaking a freaking word of English), has no money and no way to pay for the services....well someone has to eat it. Again, I'd give anyone a pass if they need help but the illegals are doing all the taking and giving nothing back!" Tumbler: Wow, schaftboy; I feel overwhelmed by your wisdom and especially your charity and good will. (He would give me a pass!) ESAD, little guy. Oh, I forget you're full of it. Well, keep trying.
"Learning the language? Nope. Bettering their neighborhoods? Nope. Organizing community beautification projects? Nope." --Tumbler: I read and write. I know Mexicans who went to school in Mexico and learned English down there. Imagine ! Of course; you've met every day-laborer in Texas, New Mex, AZ, and Calif; and never met one who spoke your fine, stylish English. (Bet you all their children speak ONLY English.) -- When you beautify a neighborhood, schratboy; do you hire a white cracker boy to landscape it? Do your sisters pick tomatoes in the summer? Is your house in a pure-white only ghetto ? That's what I thought. YES, on every count. Do I give a fig? Frankly no.
"The only thing innocuous here is your pitious point of view." -- Tumbler The proper word is pitiable, Boy. -- Learn good English.
tumbster says... Do I give a
March 29, 2007 - 18:02 ET by bigtimertumbster says...
Do I give a fig? Frankly no.
Could of fooled me....you sure post very long diatribes proving the opposite.
Please...just quit already.
Gets old... tiresome and boring after months and months and months of this.
Look up the word illegal.
Deal with it when it comes to all illegal aliens.
MM--In spite of our resident illegal immigrant--
March 28, 2007 - 17:44 ET by misterbillMM--In spite of our resident illegal immigrant--asskisser who sickens me to death. " I said it before folks and I will say it again, illegal-immigration is perhaps the GREATEST threat to America as we have ever seen." is what I have been saying since I first logged into NB almost a year ago. I, however, used the words "our greatest danger is from within." That is because I hold every Senator and Congressman, or any public official who does not act to correct this problem of illegal immigration to be negligent to the duties of their ofice and as criminal as the immigrants. Further , for those who condone and, indeed, support the illegals immigrants with medical, tuition ,snactuary, etc. , they are guilty of treason. I don't give a hoot if the Feds come to my door, I am saying that as the anger rises, as the public becomes more aware of our birthrights being sold out and given away to people who do not belong here, (that is treasonous), those who doit should be forcefully removed from office, tried and sentenced.
I know if I were a Central American or a Mexican, I would , most probably come here illegaly to try to better my life. It is wrong, it affects America negatively. Just go to F.A.I.R. and read the costs, and not just in dollars.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
your own words convict you
March 28, 2007 - 18:04 ET by tumbler_2007Listen to misterbill;
Every word dripping with hatred and furious for the fact that I don't march in lockstep with HIM and other racists.
Then he thinks I kiss the illegal aliens' ass. Why? Sure, because I consider them human beings, not scum. Not a lower form of life, as HE thinks. His own words condemn him. I sicken him to death precisely because i come from Spanish roots, like Geraldo Rivera does, too. They all hate Geraldo, did you know that? WHY? Because they're either racists or associating with racists, and Geraldo TELLS them so !
He hates us. He referred to me a few weeks ago as a SPIC. (And that's OK, I forgive the old Geezer. He knows no better than vile words and how to abuse those who don't agree with him. I forgive him, because I'm still hoping he'll confess his sins before his life is over. He's next to senile now. Soon he'll be facing his Creator. I feel sorry for him and I pray his sins may be forgiven. Truly, I hope so.
tumbler-you are a liar
March 28, 2007 - 18:28 ET by misterbilltumbler-you are a liar May God pity you, you corrupt liar. I NEVER said that--produce proof--I don't think that way. I spent too many years of my life being called ethnic,(stop with your "racial" you liar), names to subject anyone else to that. If I met you face to face I would look into your liar's face and challenge you. You who called me a "ginny" and a "wop". Folks, he did not call me that. I am just including it to show how easy it is to lie!
God hears and sees every one of your corrupt lies and the hatred you spew that you hide behind God and pity for those in bad conditions. YOU ARE A TRAITOR--YOU DO NOT PUT AMERICA FIRST. I will bet that many NBers could type in all the BS you will, in response to this. We all know you so well, liar. You will also tout how you are opposed to illegal immigration and then defend it to the death--you are lying scum!
"He hates us. He referred to me a few weeks ago as a SPIC."
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
correct me if u wrong
March 28, 2007 - 19:06 ET by tumbler_2007Hold on, misterbill. I definitely saw Spic in a post of yours. Wasn't it directed at me? You even said some mild slur about Spanish people, --
Following that you wrote "SPICOLA." Isn't that a slur? In any case; the evident fact of your uncontrolled hatred is flatly seen in all your tirades against Tumbler. AND-- I nevertheless do FORGIVE YOU. PAX VOBISCUM, Pagliacco Morbozzo --
Oh stuff it you la raza freak.
March 28, 2007 - 19:44 ET by SportPoliticsOh stuff it you la raza freak traitor. Get back to your people, racist.
Sporty,Tumbler is so out of i
March 28, 2007 - 19:46 ET by BlondeSporty,
Tumbler is so out of it he didn't realize "SPICOLA" was from Fast Times...
But he surely took huge offense! :D
well, my mistake
March 29, 2007 - 17:59 ET by tumbler_2007I really thought misterbill had called me Spic. I'm sorry, misterbill.
It was actually a piece a crap who says he's into sports. But he's a racist poltroon.
Spicola is from "Fast Times?" What does it mean? Is misterbill into fast times? The sports goon didn't call me spicola, I don't think. Who cares? Water under the cyber-bridge; Hmmm Blonde? Ciao, and remember tonight, beware; look under your bed. Might be an illegal immigrant under there "breeding". Lol!
It's a movie, you silly man.F
March 29, 2007 - 18:10 ET by BlondeIt's a movie, you silly man.
FYI, the newest crop of illegals in Florida (this time from Haiti) are now in lock up on Chrome Avenue. Where they should be, Tumbler.
You are so reading deficient you don't even know who said what to whom. And you just admitted it.
Big surprise!
No its because no one can say
March 28, 2007 - 19:23 ET by James2306No its because no one can say anything about illegal immigrants being deported en masse without you calling them racist, nazi, white supremacist, etc, etc. If you call names you should expect to recieve them. cant you see that?
The hottest places in hell are oft reserved for those who in times of moral crisis remain neutral
leave out the nazis
March 28, 2007 - 19:57 ET by tumbler_2007First, omit reference to Nazis. White supremacists, bigots, racists-- maybe.
But NOT because no one can say anything; not even because the authorities deport captured violaters of our border. They are supposed to be deported, legally.
For that much, nobody is ever guilty of racism. We have every right to say what is fair and deemed important for the welfare of the United States. I've consistently agreed we have to solve this problem soon. But I confront those who treat these violaters as animals. As unworthy of any respect or compassion. Americans who hate people of a different ethnic origin. You must know that's happened before in our historical past. Negroes were despised. Then the Asians, both Chinese and Japanese, Koreans.
Mexicans have been discriminated against. It's just a fact. In the late 1930s my Dad worked in Texas, and saw signs over store and cafe entrances that said: NO DOGS OR MEXICANS . He didn't worry about it. He was of Spanish stock; but Texans didn't see much difference. He just kept on driving. That was a different era. In some ways better than today, too.
Besides; I have no complaint against people who smear me. Let them, I live in peace with myself. I only object to their racial hatred, smears, slurs, and lies. About Mexican illegals. That's ALL.
There have been many lies told in these threads. Nobody challenges them except me. And I never called anyone a Nazi. (Not because I'm afraid to do it; it's not apropos, is all.)
Hiding behind an evasion
March 28, 2007 - 20:10 ET by RJ"I've never called anyone a Nazi." That's because you let your "analogies" do the talking for you. Hiding behind that evasion makes you a coward.
sorry, RJ
March 28, 2007 - 20:19 ET by tumbler_2007Just to make it clear, R J BS:
I never called you a Nazi. I think I should have; but no. And, I don't hide.
Everything I say is posted up front and in your face. Why should I hide? I said yesterday, I am proud of the things I've said. But if I'm mistaken, I take them back. And since I didn't call ANYBODY a Nazi, I don't have to take it back. It was an excellent analogy. About ethnic minorities and racial hatred; not about individuals. A Jew who was reviled and treated like scum. Mexicans who are reviled, sometimes in danger of death; in this, the Land of the Free. Wow . . .
You are truly insane, Tumbler
March 28, 2007 - 20:27 ET by RJWow. You are one Sad Sack Troll, Tumbler (SSTT). ;^>
You evade, you duck, you hide, you twist, but you never, ever call me a nazi....but wait!....you think you "should have."
You have an amazing ability to spin the most bizarre lies about yourself, Tumbler. You are truly insane.
See you're still talking the
March 28, 2007 - 20:16 ET by bigtimerSee you're still talking the same old lines....all day now.
Good little troll.
Pat on head...
Gawd this gets old.
You had so many opportunities to make friends here you old silly racist fool.
Pathetic tumbster...just pathetic.
Oh, yeah, mb
March 28, 2007 - 20:26 ET by tumbler_2007Well, my excuse is; I have nobody here to help me. You could've helped me, but you fell into lockstep with some bigots.
It's OK; no hard feelings. And trolls don't agree with you; as I frequently agree. I don't dispute what's lawful. I never hated a soul. I wish they loved me, but at least I won't hate any of them. No matter what vile thing they say about me. I'm not here as a troll, but as a free American, having my say so. --I hope you don't ...object ?
Tumbler we dont care the eth
March 29, 2007 - 13:36 ET by Dan The Man 2Tumbler we dont care the ethnic of an illegal, and we must deport them. We must do it immediatelt without fail. I suggest taking a DNA sample each time along with retina scans, fingerprints and any other identifying measures. Build a wall on the Mexican border similar to the Korean border, start shooting the ones trying to cross. After a while they will stop on that border or at least it will slow to a trickle.
I am not dehumanizing them but preventing them from being enslaved. A guest worker program is an enslavement because it creates an underclass of workers. France tried this and see where it got them.
If you really feel for them go to their country and change it for their benefit.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.
ILLEGAL ALERT!
March 29, 2007 - 13:52 ET by Clear thinkerEl Pueblo.org another group to keep an eye on...
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/558332.html
They are asking for special consideration (that break our own laws) for illegals here in NC.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Quebec and France loom in our illegal situation
March 29, 2007 - 14:00 ET by RJWell, I don't agree with "shooting" illegals, but implementing mandatory incarceration camps with increasing sentences for repeat offenders would give many of them second thoughts about coming back again and again, while giving the authorities time to identify and weed out the criminals and terrorists.
You are right that France provides a good example of what can happen when you allow such an underclass to develop. In fact, the beginnings are evident in some areas of the U.S.
Also, if we keep going this way without taking action, how long will it be before we have a Quebec-style "Separatist" movement develop? It's the goal of LaRaza and many illegal apologists.
P.S. has anyone else noticed that not one leftist on this board has come to the defense of the illegals, even though it's a leftist position? Why is that?
yeah, dan--you're all heart
March 29, 2007 - 14:18 ET by tumbler_2007So; by shooting unarmed men and women, you save them from a slave's existence ? (I think you're crazy.)
I am already on record in NB, as in favor of capture and deportation. The means of ID you suggest are intrusive and draconian. I realize this doesn't mean a thing to you, but to me it's demeaning and reminiscent of the (careful, careful!) NAZI era. You know; tattoos on every Jew's arm? --As for walls; yes you're correct. A wall would stop almost every intruder; IF you murder each one as he leaps over. We're better than that, Dan.
I repeat, we are not a police state shooting dissidents and spies on sight. (In this case, illegal entrants.)
Mexico is not North Korea. Mexico is our friendly neighbor. You have confused Mexico for our enemy. Just for THIS ridiculous and frightening "solution" of yours, you should be confined in a mental ward. People like you are dangerous.
P.S.
Even if we did what you suggest here, it would not stop illegal immigration. There are many other ways of defeating the border. More illegals enter our country through border checkpoints and by sea than over the AZ desert or on foot in Calif and across the river. It's old hat to many veteran offenders. Plus; and very significantly: That achieves NOTHING with regards to the 7 to 10 million illegal aliens living in this country right now. It would be impossible to capture and deport all of them even if we worked for years. --SO ? What's to be done ? I'm afraid it'll have to be some form of amnesty. (Dan is up-chucking now,) Yep; that's all.
YOU personally called me a ra
March 28, 2007 - 20:45 ET by James2306YOU personally called me a racist for saying that all illegals ned to be sent out of the country, there was no racism in what I said and yet you felt the need to insult me. As far as being discrimination goes all of my ancestors in this country had that happen to them at one point. Irish need not apply, damn scottish sheep farmer, heathen indian (1/2 Irish, 1/4 Scot, 1/4 Iroquis) you did not know me then when you insulted me but you felt the need to do it anyway. And yes you have called people here Nazi by inference and you know it just like you called me names for daring to say that anyone here illegally needs to be sent home, that makes you a liar. When you are ready to apologize you might be acceptable but not until. BTW you do more damage to people of hispanic descent with your tirades than anyone else I have ever heard of your continued name calling and relentless assaults on this subject makes more racism than exposes it.
The hottest places in hell are oft reserved for those who in times of moral crisis remain neutral
That's Bumbler's M.O. Thro
March 28, 2007 - 21:07 ET by Free StinkerThat's Bumbler's M.O. Throw around the word "Racist" when he realizes he's wrong.
dear james2306
March 29, 2007 - 14:51 ET by tumbler_2007If I called you a racist without cause and you show everybody here the complete post where I did it, and the post I was RESPONDING TO;
As evidence of my unfairness,-- I'll give you the public apology you deserve. Don't give us "inference" show the posts.
Last night the half-witted RJ accused me saying, "It's all about you."
Yet everybody for weeks comes at me with these bogus accusations, expressing their deep distress and reactions --THEIR PAIN ! ! ! because I "insulted" them. Which means that, to you this isn't at all about justice, the law, the dangers of illegal immigration. -- It's mostly about YOUR aching hearts ! You guys are shameless ! Can't you forget about these perceived "low blows" Tumbler gave you ? Never seen such cry-babies !
We waste bandwidth here every damn day cursing and fuming at Tumbler; and nothing more ! Go on with these discussions !
To me, threads like this one are tons more interesting and important than all the Rosie O'Donnell and Bill Maher crap that never ceases; this is an important subject ! Instead of these freakin diatribes all aimed at ONE MAN, make the threads interesting again. I think EVERYBODY'S tired of seeing you bums cry. (Shite or get off the pot !)
Your arguments ARE all about you
March 29, 2007 - 15:18 ET by RJYour arguments ARE all about you, you demented old man. And it's been all about you from my very first post to you. You went nutso because I told you that you were behaving like a leftist.
P.S. Has anyone else noticed that Tumbler is the only one here arguing the leftist position on illegals? Why are the other leftists on the board silent on the subject?
arguments about myself ?
March 29, 2007 - 15:32 ET by tumbler_2007Sorry, R J BS, all my arguments have been, from the very beginning:
About Mexicans illegally entering or already within the U. S. . . . and racial prejudice, our laws, and the false urgency being promoted by those who despise an ethnic group under pretext of the law. That, and reactions by me against hate speech and lies.
When the subject became ME, Bozoes like you and others changed it to me. You attacked the messenger, causing him, Tumbler, to Clean Your Clocks from time to time. (It's a dirty job, but I had to do it.) That's the truth. As for your calling me a liberal; it never mattered to me and you're welcome to keep calling me that, as well as demented, fool, troll, etc., ad nauseam, and I'll have no hard feelings. I may just clean your clock more frequently. Meanwhile, stop wasting NB's bandwidth and my time. -- Putz
Nope, it's STILL about you.
March 29, 2007 - 15:51 ET by RJNope, you demented old man, you're lying again. My first post to you was to say you were behaving like a leftist. No name-calling and no mention of Mexicans or illegals. You immediately went red-zone, off-the-wall bonkers in several posts, and that makes YOUR anger all about YOU.
P.S. Has anyone else noticed that Tumbler is the only one arguing the leftist position on illegals? Why haven't the leftists on the board stepped up? Do they think he's doing their work for them?
James...You better get used t
March 29, 2007 - 14:58 ET by Clear thinkerJames...
You better get used to it, tumbler is our resident racist and illegal apologist.
La Raza pays him good money (in pesos) for him to take his silly stands.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
yah,dah yah, dah Yah DA
March 29, 2007 - 15:49 ET by tumbler_2007Yah dahhhh,
"-- tumbler is our resident racist and illegal apologist."
La Raza pays him good money (in pesos) for him to take his silly stands."
This one's had his clock cleaned so often and so bad he's acting punchy. His mantra above is cute. He can't think of anything else. And he calls himself --are you ready ? HA! Clear thinker ! ---Hahaha! I can't stand it, ROTFLMAO ! --
See you've managed your agend
March 29, 2007 - 15:55 ET by bigtimerSee you've managed your agenda again today tumbster....
Pat on head.
Sigh...
Carry on....and on...and on...
I called you a spic
March 28, 2007 - 19:42 ET by SportPoliticsI called you a spic, because you are a spic, a racist one at that, and that's all you'll ever be for the rest of your life.
OK, Is this the Goon?
March 28, 2007 - 20:10 ET by tumbler_2007Is SportPoltroon the goon who called me a spic ? Ohhh! Fine!
I see then, that I should apologize to misterbill. I made the mistake of accusing HIM ! Well, please forgive me, misterbill. You weren't the goon. You've often belittled me, but not like that. It was THIS goon. Just mistaken identity; so sorry.
He's using a racial slur, then calling ME a racist. Hmmmm. OK; I won't quibble. It's a free country and Poltroon Goon has a right to speak freely. No use getting upset.
What else have you said in past months, Goon ? Weren't you the one who said we ought to kill all the illegals as they enter into the U.S.--? Shoot them, stuff like that ? I know that wasn't misterbill. You were a sorry-@ss racist about it, Hm? Good old Boy, have you ever had a white sheet & pointy hat ?
Greater than terrorism?
March 28, 2007 - 19:34 ET by BlameTheMediaGreater than terrorism?
Easy! Careful. It won't take
March 28, 2007 - 15:34 ET by FastEdEasy! Careful. It won't take long before you are called a racist - hold on, it'll be here soon . .
Slowing down - took almost an hour to show up, but show up he did!
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
why would I call MM a racist?
March 28, 2007 - 17:51 ET by tumbler_2007Is mostlymod saying something improper? Is he demonizing illegal immigrants and their culture and country ? I don't think so. If he-she resorted to lies or verbal abuse of an ethnic minority, he-she would be guilty of racial injustice.
I do NOT defend the illegal alien from justly being captured and deported. Nor have I ever said they were within their rights to come here illegally. If mostly moderate is able, let him-her show me the post in which I said that.
I only confront a racist few here who daily lie, smear and promote hatred of those poor people. I've seen various and insistent lies here. I've seen murder of illegals advocated, and cold-blooded attempts to murder one called "doing their job." By liars. Some here have gone to extremes, calling Mexicans cockroaches; calling Mexico, their land, --a cesspool. Those are not innocent remarks. But they tell you I'm stupid for referring to them as racists.
They don't always lie or smear because they were actually taught racist prejudice. Many do it because they accept the lies of others and have no scruples about doing an injustice to this people at all. And, when a hypocrite tells you, mm, -- that because you speak out against illegal immigration, I'll accuse you of racism-- He's just lying. He has no other way of refuting the truth; that some characters here are racists. (You know; sh!t happens ! Some people are racists !)
Tumbler, I assure you I am no
March 28, 2007 - 17:59 ET by mostlymoderateTumbler, I assure you I am not racist. I would be just as upset if Canada tried to force its dope-smoking citizens on the U.S. ;-) Plus, how could I be racist against a people that has such beautiful females.
good, but only partly
March 28, 2007 - 18:11 ET by tumbler_2007I'm relieved to hear you aren't a racist. However, let me assure you; MEXICO has not "forced" illegal immigrants on the U. S. Mexico has no objections if we deport every single one of them (as if it were possible.)
The truth is, Mexicans live in a free country, just as we do. They come here because their government is not authorized by law to interfere with its citizens. They're FREE.
you are either a liar or you
March 28, 2007 - 22:16 ET by MrSnugglesyou are either a liar or you are ignorant. mexico encourages citizens and even makes videos and other documentation telling their people how they can cross the border illegally and get a job at mcdonalds, and they go to the nearest bank of america to send their cash back home.
mr snuggles 1, and 2,
March 29, 2007 - 16:35 ET by tumbler_20071.) I think you're crazy
2.) You're crazy, alright
You continue to lie, Tumbler
March 28, 2007 - 18:13 ET by RJTumbler, you call me a racist and worse. Once again, I challenge you to show my racism. You can't, you know it, and that's why you won't try. You're a coward and a liar.
From day one, you've been pi$$ed at me because I called you out for behaving like a liberal. It's cowardly for you to hide behind the Mexican illegals, when it all goes back to your having your feelings hurt.
you've made racist slurs
March 28, 2007 - 18:21 ET by tumbler_2007Yes; I'm entitled to call a person what his actions show him to be.
You often slur me. I'm a hispanic; and you have no qualms about calling me Cucaracha (cockroach) and accusing me of bigotry because I post what you sneeringly call trollish posts about illegal immigration. You come to the quick support of others who express hatred for Mexicans and for me. There's an old Spanish saying: Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres. "Tell me who you associate with and I'll tell you what you are."
We have one similar: "If you lie down with dogs you'll wake up with fleas." You assist and applaud racists. That's the racist in you, Pal.
We will figure something out
March 28, 2007 - 18:31 ET by mostlymoderateWe will figure something out Tumbler. Heck, I wouldn't have a problem actually PAYING illegal aliens to depart the country. It's not the people that bother me, it's the overpopulation. Unfortunately, I am outnumbered when it comes to this argument. For example, large corporations like to have immigrant labor because they can pay the immigrants unfair wages. Then, there is the pansy-@$$ liberals that think America should have open borders to everyone. I disagree, I think America should focus on the people that "are citizens" rather than try to help out the "non-citizens".
So it's all about YOU, Tumbler....
March 28, 2007 - 18:42 ET by RJThat's what I thought, Tumbler. You're angry because I attack YOU, and you're hiding behind the lofty pretense of speaking up for Mexicans. You ARE a Troll. You DO behave like a liberal. You ARE a cockroach. What does that have to do with illegal aliens?
Not only are you unable to show anything I have said that is racist, you can't show that I have supported something racist that someone else has said. You prove yourself to be not only a liar and a coward, Tumbler, but you also prove that your anger and argument is all about YOU.
and R J BS is a cry baby
March 28, 2007 - 18:49 ET by tumbler_2007You can dish it out but you can't take it, Cry Baby.
You keep referring to me in the most inflammatory terms; and you simply can't face the truth about yourself. Why don't you go on a retreat, into the mountains, or the woods? PRAY. Ask God to cleanse your soul of animosity and self-absorption. PRAY, R J.
Come back in a few days. Start anew, with your normal feet under you. I hate to see a grown man cry.
Pot Calling Kettle.
March 28, 2007 - 18:52 ET by BlondePot Calling Kettle.
Uh oh, must be that time of night
March 28, 2007 - 19:07 ET by RJUh oh. It must be the time of night where your dementia kicks it up a notch, Tumbles. Cry? Ha. Tumbles, I nailed it that your entire shtick is all about YOU, and not the Mexicans. You can't handle that truth, so you go off on a meandering, irrational rant, even looking for help from above.
Edit: Woah! Just looked over the thread and Tumbles has really lost it. Every post he makes has some type of religious incantation or invocation. He truly needs help.
Thank you Jack Nicholson! :
March 28, 2007 - 19:10 ET by BlondeThank you Jack Nicholson! :D
Well, who would want to be in a deserted hotel
March 28, 2007 - 19:19 ET by RJWell, who would want to be in a deserted hotel with Tumbler? ;^>
Tumbler please seek professional help
March 28, 2007 - 18:43 ET by misterbillTumbler please seek professional help--you are one sick puppy. Besides being an inveterate liar and hypocrite ("Oh , I am opposed to illegal immigration, but they don't hurt America oh" (and a lot of other BS)). You attack and insult everyone on this site at the slightest prvocation. Drop dead--I will never communicate with you again. While I enjoy diversity i opinion, and have defended you in the past, I now think you should be banned from this site.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
dear misterbill
March 28, 2007 - 18:55 ET by tumbler_2007I'm truly sorry you're finally facing facts about your sins. I'll pray for you, Paisan.
As for the "professional help," when I need stupid advice, I'll surely ask you for it.
Thanks anyway, and ciao !
Tumbler, they are "illegal" a
March 29, 2007 - 14:19 ET by ryancurrTumbler, they are "illegal" after all. I would think that that alone would cause a legitimate person to recognize the problem with the lack of regulation and the infestation of our country with lawbreakers. As for the problems, you mentioned earlier that it was not a grave issue with the effects of the tens of millions of illegals in our country. Why don't you try going around middle class America and surveying some of the honest small businessmen in our country who have lost so much of what they have worked their whole lives for because they won't cheat and hire illegally? Do you know anything about econonics to even consider making such a statement that there is no effect on our country? What do you think happens to the bids of honest contractors when they are competing with a sweat shop employing 50 illegals each getting paid 70 dollars a day? That's a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway to avoid anything getting lost...THE HONEST MAN LOSES OUT ON EVERY BID!! This is a rampant issue with not only the construction industry, but also with restaurants in this country, as well as the agriculture sector of our country.
Also, there was just an article released today from the head of the office of accountability outlining the grave problem with debt that we face in the future because these horrible entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security are spending an incredible amount of money. When illegals come over here and cheat the system and receive free medical care, social security, education, and don't contribute a damn thing into the system(or very, very, monumentally little in the best cases), that debt factor becomes exponentially worse.
I am not defacing their humanity or the fact that they are humans and that it might be the feel good thing to do to shovel the benefits of our society down their throats without them working for it, but its not in the least bit intelligent for us to do and I would like to see you rebutt this statement with anything that could prove otherwise.
Unfortunately, it can't be done, because the economic implications are undeniable, and to say that there is no effect is just plain idiotic, even if you are a lib.
ryancurr
March 29, 2007 - 14:40 ET by misterbillFriendly hint---do not feed the animals, let sleeping dogs lie, keep arms inside car at all times, do not stand while car is in motion, do not ever challenge tumbler on illegal immigration.
You are at risk of being called a variety of names with racist and Nazi at the top of the list. He will also post that you have called him ethnic names, Lastly, and desparately, he will invoke God and your Christianity or lack thereof. He will deem you a "hater" of (his words) little brown people" or Mexicans.
All that being said, I realize it is difficult to resist trying to explain some simple facts of life and economics.
Welcome to the Tumbler rollercoaster. Proceed at your own risk. You must be thiiiiis tall to get on the ride.
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
honest try to answer
March 29, 2007 - 16:21 ET by tumbler_2007Like to try to answer ryan:
"--know anything about econonics to even consider making such a statement that there is no effect on our country? snip---the bids of honest contractors when they are competing with a sweat shop employing 50 illegals each getting paid 70 dollars a day? THE HONEST MAN LOSES OUT ON EVERY BID!! ---- " REPLY: See if you can furnish proof, Ry, not an absurd opinion. (Next:) "--This is a rampant issue with not only the construction industry, but also with restaurants in this country, as well as the agriculture sector of our country." ----I doubt it. Opinions are like-- Yours is like a bad mood. ("Rampant issue, --!" Ugh.)
" debt that we face in the future because these horrible entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security are spending an incredible amount of money. When illegals come over here and cheat the system and receive free medical care, social security, education, and don't contribute a damn thing into the system (or very, very, monumentally little in the best cases), that debt factor becomes exponentially worse." ANSWER: Bullshiett ! " or very, very, monumentally little in the best cases--" --PUKE ! In either case; catch and deport these people. Don't LIE.
"might be the feel good thing to do to shovel the benefits of our society down their throats without them working for it, but its not in the least bit intelligent for us to do and I would like to see you rebutt this statement with anything that could prove otherwise." REPLY: ---Again, bullshot. Nobody "shovels any benefits", and it's not about feeling good. It's about telling the truth. Why do you demand another must prove anything just because YOU make a crazy premise ? And that wonderful society you're babbling about; this is a capsule evaluation of it, (remember, I love my country, but --TRUTH ?)
Abortion, pornography, gay pride and promiscuity, serial murderers and rape/predators, indecent films, drug addiction in the millions, with its crackhouses, traffickers and murderers, pimps and prostitution and unmarried mothers, little girls given contraceptive pills, incredible public vulgarity and obscenity, graffitti everyplace, and anti-religious propaganda on every cable network; nobody can smoke, have a dog in public, own a gun, pray in school, put up a Christmas greeting, etc., etc., ad nauseam. And you bash Mexico night and day. You mean THAT culture ?
Somehow, I haven't yet seen illegal aliens as beating up our culture. You won't see it either, but hatred you will see. Our white supremacist society is rapidly being exposed to what it is: out of countrol with racial pride and hatred for minorities. NOT ALL Americans; but an alarming great number of them, and growing bolder.
First and foremost, I never a
March 29, 2007 - 19:48 ET by ryancurrFirst and foremost, I never attacked Mexico as you said... "And you bash Mexico night and day" . Not once did I ever refer to illegals as Mexican, so don't draw false correlations. As for your labeling of my opinion as absurd, does a family member whose business has been destroyed and a close friends fathers business which has also been destroyed because they wont use illegal labor sound like a valid enough label of proof? Does working in the restaurant industry for 5 years and seeing exactly what I said above in action mean anything?
Read the articles from various corners of the country who are claiming problems in the above industries I mentioned. (I won't waste my time citing what is already a known fact, unless you continue rebutting) Don't attack my statements in an effort to undermine what is a legitimate statement that threatens your weak position. As for being a rampant issue, I live in NJ, where the car insurance is the highest in the country. What is this
mainly
a result of? ILLEGAL ALIENS WITHOUT INSURANCE!!As for you labeling my attack on the illegals cheating the system as bullshiet...do they pay taxes? Do they go to school for free without contributing to the system? Do they receive free healthcare? Where does this money come from Tumbler? Is there some magical forest in the midwest somewhere that produces the money to balance the huge stress they put on the system? The answer? NO, WE AS AMERICAN TAXPAYERS FUND IT!!
As far as this comment goes "In either case; catch and deport these people. Don't LIE." , I can't make sense of it. The best I can assume is that you are trying to say that the above statement is my view on the situation. You are obviously not expecting to win this argument by making stretches like that.
Perhaps shoveling benefits down there throats was a bit of a stretch, but in what way is it "the truth" as you later assert? You will have to really explain yourself on that one.
Rep. Melvin Stukes asks: &
March 28, 2007 - 15:33 ET by motherbeltRep. Melvin Stukes asks: "Are we still saying that some people are less than whole?
No, Mr. Stukes, we are not saying that some people are less than whole. We are saying that some people are less than full citizens. And as such, and seeing as how they don't want to fulfill the obligations to become citizens, why should they have the privileges of citizenship?
Sen. Reid's angelic voice - in 1993
March 28, 2007 - 16:05 ET by Gary HallAdditional labeling suggestions for the media:
Sen. Reid's angelic voice - in 1993
Sep't. 1993. Senator Harry Reid (D(ic)) on the floor of the Senate. Issue: immigration reform.
Official statement by Sen. Reid's office (Thanks to Drudge May, 2006):
My personal view: Someone needs to tie this man to a chair, and force him to read to the American Public, on national TV, every beautiful and accurate word of what he said.
Gary, that is PRICELESS!
March 28, 2007 - 16:20 ET by motherbeltGary, that is PRICELESS!
I would vote for any person(almost any)
March 28, 2007 - 17:06 ET by misterbillI would vote for any person(almost any) for President who wil stop all illegal immigration and reform our immigration laws, (chains, anchors, etc.)
Where ’s the coward that would not dare to fight for such a land?
Sir Walter Scott
I wasn't aware that preachers
March 28, 2007 - 16:06 ET by CaringwhiteguyI wasn't aware that preachers, especially those that spoke with fervor, were among MSM's favored groups. Perhaps though if one speaks with the fervor of Reverend Al or the Reverend Jackson he gets a pass.
Funny
March 29, 2007 - 01:58 ET by E4PukeI just find it funny how I put the first comment in, go out for a night of drinking and log on here to find the comments descend into " your racist" "no im not racist". Since when is defending the laws of ones country racist? I guess if i say noone should steal cars, but everyone that steals cars happens to be from outside America, I then become racist for saying stop stealing my car? WTF? These are our laws, sorry if these laws do not allow for a specific race, nationality, or gender to break them.
When a liberal cannot win an
March 29, 2007 - 02:52 ET by liberal_bug_zapperWhen a liberal cannot win an argument, the conservative is a racist, sexist, bigot or homophobe. It's par for the course. Wear it as a badge of honor.
____________________________________________________
"The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
get with the program, E4
March 29, 2007 - 16:46 ET by tumbler_2007You're a racist here if enough people hate you and object to your opinions, even if you're a natural-born American. It can't matter if your disagreement is rational or aimed at good will, human kindness, love, justice,
And it's an opinion which nevertheless upholds the legality of our border, the capture & deportation of illegal immigrants, and proves every point without ever hoping to circumvent the law. They'll still hate you and lie about you. They'll call you a racist Mexican or racist hispanic, they'll say you're demented, or senile, they'll heap scorn on you, because:
You disagree about murdering unarmed men & women crossing the border, or that a fence is no use. They'll accuse you of working for La Raza, use racial slurs against you, and they'll gang up on you.
Especially some who nurse racial hatred in their hearts. If you see it and denounce it. That's what they cry most about. You're not supposed to call a spade a "spade".
Spade?
March 29, 2007 - 16:49 ET by RJ"Spade?" You racist! ;^>
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