Crossposted from Notes in the Margin
The "stranded polar bear" photo continues to grab headlines, even after yet another thorough debunking. In what has become the furry, cuddly symbol of all that is wrong with the climate change debate, the now ubiquitous photo was splashed across news pages worldwide, with captions such as this from the Daily Mail (click for article and image):
They cling precariously to the top of what is left of the ice floe, their fragile grip the perfect symbol of the tragedy of global warming.
See more articles with the same specious claims here, here, and the NYTimes version with photo caption correction appended here.
There was just one problem: the photograph was taken not of polar bears "stranded" on ice - far from it.
Rather, the bears were wandering around their natural environment as they do every day. Read the first-round debunking here and here.
But now there is more. Spiked.com has investigated further by going straight to the source to get the full story from the original photographer. As explained in Rob Lyons' The bear necessities of climate change politics on Friday (emphasis mine):
The student who took the photograph, however, gives a slightly different account: ‘They were on the ice when we found them and on the ice when we left. They were healthy, fat and seemed comfortable on their iceberg.’
Amanda Byrd, an Australian graduate student at the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF), says she took the picture around three years ago - in the summer. The photograph was not ‘taken by environmentalists’ but as part of a field trip with the university.
Furthermore, the photographer wasn't even asked permission:
Byrd is clearly a little miffed that ‘the image you have seen around the world was distributed without my consent, and [with] the wrong byline’.
And logic and reason (aka science) is all but lost when cuddly polar bears are brought into this debate:
For all the polar bear stories, it is far from clear that these bears are an endangered species. Even if a warming world did make things more difficult for them, Arctic temperatures have been considerably warmer in the past – and polar bears survived those periods. It’s not even clear that polar bear numbers are in decline.
How many of the mainstream media outlets that used this photograph in stories on the new IPCC report or other climate change stories will publish a correction? How many will reveal that the photograph was not only incorrectly captioned, but also incorrectly attributed as portraying yet another direct impact of man-made global warming? I'm not holding my breath.
So why is this important? After all, it is just a photo, right? Not quite. It just so happens that it is a photo that has been viewed by thousands of people worldwide who now (incorrectly) associate it with global warming. It is part of a larger picture of alarmism that is continually supported by the mainstream media.
Even with this most recent thorough debunking, the myth carries on. The polar bear is now the mascot of yet another global warming alarmist website. Al Gore couldn't find any struggling polar bears, so he had to animate them. The US government is now researching their status as an endangered species. But they are not doing so based on the usual protocol set by the endangered species legislation, but instead in response to a lawsuit by environmentalists such as Greenpeace alleging as much. This story is far from over.



















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Comments Policy
Yet another lawsuit that won't happen
March 20, 2007 - 18:14 ET by Six String SpiffThis Amanda gorl MUST seek legal action. We must start somewhere with putting the MSM in it's rightful place. LYING on headlines is a crime. I am not allowed to make a web page with somebody elses pictures and code. Why should the whores at the MSM be allowed to? This has got to stop. The MSM is abusing their rights. Amanda, PERSUE THIS!!
Melting Ice Cause
March 20, 2007 - 18:19 ET by PawpawNAppears story left out that Al Gore had been by recently and the luxury jet flew too low and left its carbon footprint on the ice, as well as some yellow and darker spots!
Well I hope Amanda gets a lit
March 20, 2007 - 18:29 ET by bigtimerWell I hope Amanda gets a little more than miffed...I hope she gets down right ruthless...unless of course she happens to agree with this alarmist crap.
I just wished we had reverse law-suits so all the damage these greenie weenie leftists have caused around the world let alone here in the US had to be compensated if they lose...torte reform got passed to an extent..but not far enough in Congress...of course we had nothing but stone-walling for that from all the lawyers in Congress..we all know the trial lawyers are some of the biggest contributors to the dem/leftist party.
The media also has used another picture ad nauseum with the caribou running in the summer...nowhere near ANWR.
It never ends.
The polar bears "cling p
March 20, 2007 - 18:30 ET by Chris NormanThe polar bears "cling precariously" to the ice floe, much like the man-made global warming theorists cling to that photograph as evidence...
The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
- Arabian Proverb
Um... you are all missing t
March 20, 2007 - 18:52 ET by ChumlyUm... you are all missing the point of the article. The photograph is not being offered as physical proof of Global Warming. The photo was apparently being used to add an exclamation point to the article. it was used to add impact to what the writer was saying. Read the article. The photo is not the main point of the article.
By the way, in case you did not read this one, according to climate scientists the earth has just experienced the WARMEST WINTER since records have been kept...
http://www.sfgate.co...
Must be night shift for the S
March 20, 2007 - 18:57 ET by bigtimerMust be night shift for the Soros and affiliated trolls...here they come...
LMAO!
Drill Often!...Drill Everywhere!
Just had to throw that in...been awhile!
This is hilarious. Am I be
March 21, 2007 - 15:26 ET by ChumlyThis is hilarious. Am I being "swift-boated"?
Recall what those guys did - attack the messenger if you can't adequately attack the message. A familiar tactic.
More like a Jester, Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 15:32 ET by RJDon't give yourself airs, Chumley. Your posts aren't important enough to make you considered a "messenger"...more like a Jester.
I just think it is hilariou
March 21, 2007 - 15:43 ET by ChumlyI just think it is hilarious that you guys are attacking me, and not what I am saying.
A very similar tactic that I am sure you all see when you watch Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.
You just did it again...
Are you really too stupid, Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 16:00 ET by RJAre you really too stupid to realize that you're being ridiculed because you don't respond to factual rebuttals? Yeah, I guess you are....
You just confirmed (again) th
March 21, 2007 - 16:29 ET by ChumlyYou just confirmed (again) the last point that I made.
How many trolls will fit on the head of a pinhead
March 23, 2007 - 12:55 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsChumly Says: I just think it is hilarious that you guys are attacking me, and not what I am saying.
A very similar tactic that I am sure you all see when you watch Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.
A stupid assumption made by a stupid person (who probably never watched either show and just makes another stupid assumption about said show's content). I don't get Fox News channel, and many others here don't either. You just assume that all the intelligent people who post on NewsBusters watch Fox News. I do wish it was mandatory cable content though.
P.S. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking what you are saying.
D
A day without NewsBusters is like a day without sunshine.
That's just silly, Chumley
March 20, 2007 - 19:08 ET by RJWhat a silly attempt at defending the widespread disingenuous use of the Polar Bear photo. Chumley, the photo was used not as physical proof but to create phony emotionalism.
"since records have been kept"...so devoid of rational thought on so many levels. Records have been kept for how long in the history of the earth? You'll vouch that the records that WERE kept are accurate in the quality of the instruments, the proper placement of same, and that the recordings were consistently taken at the right time of day? Sheesh.
Smackdown on Chumly
March 20, 2007 - 19:15 ET by Six String SpiffOh Chumly... Can you please give us the exact time when we began "keeping Records" I know you are referring to climate records, but please... Lets keep it factually based here. You can't just drive-by and say silly things like that. FACTS make science. Not emotions.
I am trying to keep things fa
March 21, 2007 - 14:06 ET by ChumlyI am trying to keep things fact based. I am trying to take the argument out of kindergarten. I noticed that none of you backed up your comments with any proof or even a web link to support what you are saying. It is just so much empty comments with nothing to back you up. Just read the article on the link I attached in my original comment. It's from the AP.
Learn your own ABC's first, Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 14:20 ET by RJ"So much empty comments", indeed. First you need to look to your own poorly thought out post, Chumley.
Many derisive posts were directed at your stupid statements on the polar bear photo, and you deserved them.
As for your broad statement that last year was the warmest, putting up a link isn't proof of your argument, just a supplement. Trying to use it as the prime point of your argument is just dumb and lazy. Questions were asked, pointedly requesting backup for your assertion and why it should be accepted.
what the H are you talkin
March 22, 2007 - 00:02 ET by Chumlywhat the H are you talking about?
My broad statement???? I was asking you whether you had read that article. Nothing more. I said nothing more about the subject. You can't put words in my mouth. Prime point of my argument? What are you smoking? Again, merely providing an interesting article. Are you trying to pull a "Bill O'Reilly" on me??
What part about name calling and general hostility conveys the sense of honest, thoughtful discourse??
If I had to guess, I would have to say you are about 15 to 17 years old and are picked on at school, based on your reply and your attitude.
I have been on this blog for just over 1 day. Just an observation: Apparently, if you disagree with the believers here, you are subject to hostility, name calling and general frat-boy type hazing and general bullying. The only reason I can come up with for that kind of treatment is fear of opposition, insecurity issues, and a general absence of reason. I say this because reasonable people don't behave like this. If you met with people in public to have a discourse about a topic, would you speak to them this way? Or is it just the impersonal aspect of the internet that brings it out. What ever it is, I assure you it is ugly, juvenile behavior.
I'll be happy to debate this
March 22, 2007 - 21:47 ET by NL207I'll be happy to debate this topic with you, Chumly.
The treatment lefties get here is actually much better than righties get over at DKos or DU. I'd feature it as no worse that Media Matters.
So, what kinds of misconceptions about Global Warming has Al Gore taught you?
Sorry Chumpster
March 22, 2007 - 22:10 ET by RJY'know, Chumpster, I have to apologize. I've just realized the source of our communication problem. Here I've been assuming you have a reasonably intelligent mind and an attention span longer than the past few minutes.
Come to find out, though, that neither is true. Because of that, your posts, like the one above, contain nothing but non-responsive non-sequiturs, coupled with the babbling of a self-aggrandizing fool. Chumpster, I now realize you're categorically incapable of carrying an intelligent debate and I apologize again for assuming otherwise.
I am guessing that you did
March 21, 2007 - 14:21 ET by ChumlyI am guessing that you did not read the link that I used to back my argument, so here is a small excerpt from it...
"The National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration said the combined land and ocean
temperatures for December through February were 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit
above average for the period since record keeping began in 1880"
And this is where the AP got their information...NOAA scientists...
http://www.ncdc.noaa...
Care to refute this?? If so, please include a link to documentation that can back your "opinion".
your point being...?I didn'
March 21, 2007 - 15:16 ET by Chumlyyour point being...?
I didn't say that since we have just experienced the warmest winter on record that Global Warming HAS been proven to be caused by Humans. Did I?
BTW, We may not definitively know that we are contributing to Global Warming, but, what if we are? Can we (or our children) afford to be wrong on this one?
Do you fully appreciate what is at stake here?
"Do you fully apprecia
March 21, 2007 - 15:47 ET by MightyMouth"Do you fully appreciate what is at stake here?"
What if Gore is wrong, and humans have minimal impact on global warming? Can our children afford the cost of such a mistake?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Chumly..
March 20, 2007 - 19:11 ET by Six String SpiffUm.. Chumly, I think YOU are missing the point, bud. The establishment media have collectively been using that photograph (ILLEGALLY I might add) to further their agenda. What the NYT did would be like me talking about a Shweeet Ibanez RG2570E, and then showing a picture of a... microphone. Turn your computer off. NB just made you look stupid. Fool
"You will respect me, or fear me"
The Photo
March 20, 2007 - 20:09 ET by pbthinkerIf the caption on a photo claims "the polar bears are clinging precariously, to the ice....." it is a false caption, regardless of intent. The fact that Ellen Goodman used this photo for her article, on Global Warming, means it is being used for propaganda not illustration. Could this photo, and it's timing, be associated with those poor women that tried to trek across the Arctic, to prove global warming, and ended with one of them having frost bite on her toes? If so, if I were she, I would sue.
The photo is being used as a
March 21, 2007 - 14:38 ET by ChumlyThe photo is being used as a symbol of the Polar Bear's condition in general, not neccessarily these two particular bears.
and what would their "condition" be Chumley?
March 21, 2007 - 14:44 ET by RJAnd what would that "condition" be Chumley? Want to elaborate?
Um...read the article. It.
March 21, 2007 - 15:32 ET by ChumlyUm...read the article. It... um...talks about their condition. That is what we are talking about. Isn't it??
pretty disingenuous, Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 15:50 ET by RJThe article debunks the idea the polar bears are in trouble, Chumley. Therefore, it's disingenuous (and lazy, a practice I notice throughout your posts) of you to try to use it in order to prove there is a "condition" to worry about. If this pathetic defense is the best you can do, you should pack your bags in shame and find a site that caters to challenged individuals....might I recommend Dummie Underground?
Are we talking about the
March 21, 2007 - 17:25 ET by ChumlyAre we talking about the same article. The one with a photograph of two polar bears standing on an irregular shaped berg?
An excerpt from same:
"
But global warming, which has raised the temperature in the Canadian
Arctic by 4C in the last 50 years, means their habitat is inexorably
disappearing.
In Hudson Bay where the ice melts completely in summer,
scientists have noted that it is now happening three weeks earlier than
normal.
This is having a catastrophic effect on the bears which hunt seals over
the winter and spring before coming ashore where they rely on their
build-up of body fat to survive – and feed their cubs."
Debunks?!
Chumley
March 22, 2007 - 10:40 ET by RJAh, silly me. I forgot who I was talking to....
We're discussing the article that began this thread, chum. It thoroughly debunked the idea of the "poor polar bears." You've done nothing to counter that but post some links with positions that the article above takes on.
Are you also sticking with your really, really foolish claim that the enviros haven't been lying by using that photo?
By the way, chum, polar bears are a recent evolution from grizzley bears. It came about in response to recent global cooling. That's what plant and animal life do, chum....they evolve in response to the earth's repeated heating and cooling cycles.
There is nothing wrong with t
March 21, 2007 - 16:03 ET by Clear thinkerThere is nothing wrong with the Polar bears condition. Polar bears are thriving better than ever! So are the GW alarmists.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Do you care to back your
March 21, 2007 - 16:52 ET by ChumlyDo you care to back your statement with facts? All you are offering is opinion. Most of you guys are only offering your opinions. Please show me some documetation that the polar bear population is thriving.
It seems that most of you posting comments on this blog do not welcome a difference in opinion. You do not welcome rational discourse. You only try to beat someone down with name calling and character assassination. Does that sound about right?
I will admit that the photograph in question should probably not have been used for the article. It does not detract from what the rest of the article says, though. The big controversy about the aticle only distracts from what was being said.Chumly: Here ya go. Polar bea
March 21, 2007 - 18:54 ET by QueenMumChumly: Here ya go. Polar bear population
This is just one of the articles I found that contradicts the idea that the polar bear population is threatened.
You accuse those who disagree with you of not welcoming a difference of opinion and then telling us that all we are offering is opinion. I'm confused. Do you want your "opinions" to be accepted on an equal basis as fact while at the same time considering the opinions of others to be baseless merely because they disagree with your opinion? "Welcoming a difference in opinion" is not the same as accepting that opinion. If you wish to play with us, you need to be prepared to have your opinions challenged.
Queen...Thanks for providing
March 21, 2007 - 19:10 ET by Clear thinkerQueen...
Thanks for providing the link for our mis-guided friend. I have a bad habit of not linking to proof of my postings because I like to let them do the work.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
This is almost too easy peopl
March 21, 2007 - 22:42 ET by ChumlyThis is almost too easy people. It is obvious to anyone that the preponderance of official and unofficial information out there supports the fact that (worldwide), the population of Polar Bears is struggling.
To help explain it, they all talk about how Polar Bears rely upon the sea ice to survive, and, well, the sea ice is shrinking.
Check it out for yourselves:
By the way, I admit that the image in question was somewhat misleading and should not have been used. But, the intent of the blogger was obviously to distract (you all) from the substance of the article. That is a common tactic used by these types.
Here ya go...
This is a good link. Scroll down a bit and read the part about Assessment Information:
http://www.iucnredli...
This from the USGS:
http://pubs.usgs.gov...
Lots of good stuff here:
http://pbsg.npolar.n...
http://abcnews.go.co...
http://www.iht.com/a...
http://www.washingto...
http://news.bbc.co.u...
Polar Bear population has inc
March 21, 2007 - 22:55 ET by bigtimerPolar Bear population has increased chum...not decreased. No thanks to the people like PETA! They wanted to let poor little polar bear in Germany just expire...
LOL!
For shame... what hypocrites.
Then again critters like PETA have always put more animals to death than help...more than any group here in the good ol' USA...well, wait a minute..there are a bunch of so-called phony leftist groups that call themselves conservationists that say they want to save all the animals especially the endangered species...but yet will not let you protect the forest by thinning or cutting out the likes of the spread of beetle bark...
...poof...lightening strikes and they are all gone...burnt to crispy critters... the beat goes on...and on...and on.
Chumley-- pull your head out
March 21, 2007 - 23:30 ET by misterbill"Pictures of a polar bear floating precariously on a tiny iceberg have become the defining image of global warming but may be misleading, according to a new study.
A survey of the animals' numbers in Canada's eastern Arctic has revealed that they are thriving, not declining, because of mankind's interference in the environment.
In the Davis Strait area, a 140,000-square kilometre region, the polar bear population has grown from 850 in the mid-1980s to 2,100 today.
"There aren't just a few more bears. There are a hell of a lot more bears," said Mitch Taylor, a polar bear biologist who has spent 20 years studying the animals.
His findings back the claims of Inuit hunters who have long claimed that they were seeing more bears."
What I have been wishing for is a decline in the population of Idiot Bears. They are usually found in Liberal enclaves or as elected Democrat (No ic for you) elected offices.
You go Senator Inhofe, one of the few pols left with guts, integrity and true knowledge of the situation.
A Global Warming believer also believes in the Tooth Fairy!
(But not the Truth Fairy!)
Chumsy: I'd also like to reco
March 22, 2007 - 10:22 ET by QueenMumChumsy: I'd also like to recommend the Sea World website if you're interested in facts. Take some time to read about the whole picture yourself, rather than relying on liberally biased news sources to pick and choose for you. Polar bears seem to be pretty adaptable. They have their preferences when it comes to hunting for food. But they also are able to adapt their hunting to the circumstances. Since their food sources have been protected from hunters, their population has increased.
The image in question is used in order to fool those who don't know any better into believing that a "stranded polar bear" is clinging to life on that diminishing piece of ice. And that's the point of this blog.
To correct you, my sources
March 22, 2007 - 21:12 ET by ChumlyTo correct you, my sources include official US government agencies like the USGS and NOAA. They have evidence that the earth is warming and they also have evidence that Polar Bears are struggling.
What you fail to grasp is that the warming rate is and will be faster than in the past. It is the RATE of warming that is the important part about it. Yes, animals are adaptable, given a generous amount of time.
AND, the real point of this blog is to distract you from the body of the article. The blogger is trying to discredit the article because the author used a misleading caption.
Realistically, the image (and perhaps the caption) was used to add impact to the article.
You people are spending so much time and energy on the author being misleading about an image, and not one bit of time on the article itself.
When it comes down to it, you have the majority of the Earth's scientists agreeing that the earth is warming at an alarming rate. While, in opposition, you have the group (including many sub-groups like the evengelicals) of people who elected Bush to office. Simple point - who ya going to beleive?
I've seen your sources. Mos
March 22, 2007 - 21:21 ET by NL207I've seen your sources. Most of their previous climatological predictions have failed completely. What makes you think this doom-and-gloom garbage they are publishing today is any more accurate?
You've been had Chumpster
March 22, 2007 - 21:33 ET by RJFunny you mention "evangelicals", Chumpster, because the ONLY evangelical involved in the Global Warming Scam is the Reverend Al Gore. He astutely looked around and realized that secularists, having no religion, were ripe for the plucking. So he created the religion of Global Warmism, and the credo is Kyoto.
Only problem, Chumpster, is the Rev. Gore admitted that he lied about Kyoto. He said he did not believe that Kyoto would do anything to help Global Warming. He also said his main intent with Kyoto was to prove that the world could be united in the cause. You've been had by a lying, self-serving charlatan, Chumpster.
You're wasting your time Ch
March 22, 2007 - 21:32 ET by mrsimeleYou're wasting your time Chumly. Nobody in here cares about real facts because the GOP's biggest backer is petroleum companies. Come on, these are the same twits that wanted to drill in pristine land in Alaska. They care nothing about nobody except for their backers (i.e. Petroleum Co's) The amazing thing is how the Earth belongs to everybody (you, me, them) but for some reason they are willing to defend the talking point's of only Big Oil.
You should not worry, however. Big Oil has gotten greedy lately (how much is fuel in your city?) The voter has felt this sting. That's why in 2008, anyone that doesn't acknowlege the real truth about global warming will be ejected from politics :-) Kinda nice, eh? Al Gore is an absolute genius politically speaking. Remember how Bush said that "anyone that wasn't with us was against us"? Well, this is Al Gores version of that. You gotta admit though, the GOP had a nice ride for a while :o)
mrsimele "You're was
March 22, 2007 - 21:48 ET by hydrodynDMmrsimele
"You're wasting your time."
Is that sorta like when you post a question to someone's comments and they don't bother to reply to you - you mean that kind of waste of time?
By the way, still waiting on your explanation of how religion tries to break down science.
You seem nice enough. Fin
March 22, 2007 - 22:05 ET by mrsimeleYou seem nice enough. Fine. How about eliminating federal funding for stem-cell research that can help people in dire need. Why did dubya do that? Religion! Why no medical research on dead fetus's that mothers wanted to abort? RELIGION. How about trying to replace evolution in the classroom with hokey biblical tales. Religion! How about trying to stop the spread of condoms in high-schools when they are scientifically proven to help decrease venerial disease. Religion! Cloning? RELIGION!
mrs...You are a perfect examp
March 22, 2007 - 22:20 ET by bigtimermrs...
You are a perfect example of one program I would love to have federally funded...
It is called forcing humans to get their head out of their arses and see the light.
When is that going to happen to you...
Oh never-mind...
You are hopeless.
Mrs Imele goes off on another of her bitter religion-hate rants
March 22, 2007 - 22:25 ET by RJoops. Another Christophobe in the house. Mrs Imele says "you seem nice enough", phonily pretending to set up some type of "kindness" criteria....and then she takes off on another of her bitter religion-hate rants.
But what does any of that have to do with polar bears?
RJ "But what does any
March 22, 2007 - 22:39 ET by hydrodynDMRJ
"But what does any of that have to do with polar bears?"
Nothing. I asked him to reply to something from another post and he was just too lazy to go back to it - so he stuck it here.
You are factually incorrect.
March 22, 2007 - 22:20 ET by NL207You are factually incorrect. Bush eliminated no federal funding for stem cell research. Period. Proofs: (1) Congress, in particular, the HR, originates all money bills and to date, Bush has yet to veto any legislation as President. (2) Examining the NIH/NINDS budgets for FY2001[Clinton], FY2003 and FY2007, we see that at the least, neurological stem cell research continues to be funded:
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_events/congressional_testimony/fy01_nindshtr.htm
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_events/congressional_testimony/FY_2003_congressional_testimony.htm
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_events/congressional_testimony/fy_2007_budgetrequest.htm
mrsimele, You originally su
March 22, 2007 - 22:31 ET by hydrodynDMmrsimele,
You originally suggested that the religious-right tries to break down "science" and the "scientific method"?
I don't think your examples support this claim.
Lack of federal funding doesn't break down science or the scientific method. It just means they have to get funding elsewhere and either way, there a lot of people who have issue with the funding of (embryonic) stem cell research who are not motivated by religious belief.
Evolution in the class room has nothing to do with how science is done. I agree, it shouldn't be taught as a science but this issue is a separate one.
And the condom thing has nothing to do with how science is done either. It's just a matter of social mores.
Cloning. See comments above about stem-cell research.
You do know that scientists have to work within a society and that its activities will be influenced by that society's values. The "religious-right" is just one such influence and I don't think its aim is to undermine or "break down" science.
Ohh?! They are not trying
March 23, 2007 - 12:03 ET by ChumlyOhh?! They are not trying to undermine science?? Trying to force people to place magic on the same footing as hard, dedicated science? I think you are little off on that one.
Trying to force 1st century AD logic of a magic guy up in the sky who does magic (which none of us are allowed to observe, we just have to have faith that the magic is being done, somewhere, just not here), onto modern man in the 21st century AD? Not trying to undermine science? Maybe just a bit??!
My children are young and still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus I will soon have to answer their questions about the existence of same. Am I to tell them that they are not real, but I promise you that God really, really, really is, and there is no proof that I can offer you? We were told that God exists by some 1st century cave men who had a fear of death and, well, we believe them.
Well, at least those first
March 23, 2007 - 12:10 ET by MightyMouthWell, at least those first century "cave men" knew that one man's penis shouldn't go into another mans rectum. Tell me now how far we have come?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Sorry, I know it is a minor
March 23, 2007 - 12:21 ET by ChumlySorry, I know it is a minor point, but, that is not even true. Homosexuality has been with us since the beginning.
And you know this how? Were y
March 23, 2007 - 12:26 ET by bassndudeAnd you know this how? Were you there? Did you partake of such?
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Even Better...
March 23, 2007 - 12:33 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasEven Better!
Shut up and blog! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
native American course I to
March 23, 2007 - 12:38 ET by Chumlynative American course I took in college. In some tribes the Shaman (religious leader and/or healer/medicine man) was typically gay and assumed a female role.
LOL Chumly! You really need t
March 23, 2007 - 12:46 ET by bassndudeLOL Chumly! You really need to brush up or get a new book. In the Apache, Cherokee and Souix along with the Blackfoot would either banish or kill said offenders. You really are brainwashed, uh? Oh, Im sorry. I assumed you have a brain to wash.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Again, you guys just stun m
March 23, 2007 - 17:51 ET by ChumlyAgain, you guys just stun me with how ignorant you are. Bass, did you know that in some states, that back in the day, there were as many as 100 different tribal groups with mutually unintelligible languages (that means they did not speak the same language, for you righties)? Hm? did you know that??
You mentioned 4!
Ya know, when you guys denigrate,name call, and generally bash people who don't agree with you, you really sound ignorant. Your credibility is called into question. The hostility and vitriol that you guys spew is just a classic sign of small-minded people. It certainly impugns your credibility.chum
March 23, 2007 - 17:57 ET by gfrrman!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!! PROJECTION ALERT !!!!!!!!! WARNING!!!!!!!
WARNING Will Robinson!!!
This is horsecrap. The US G
March 23, 2007 - 18:01 ET by NL207This is horsecrap. The US Government only recognizes about 550 Indian tribes all told. If there is more than one state with over 100 tribes, even if there is some overlap between these two states, that might account for close to 1/3 of all the distinct tribal units. This means the other 48 states must share the remaining 350 or so. Of these tribes, isn't it true that about a dozen of them, led by the Navajo, represent over half of all Indians in America, thought to number in excess of 2 million at the present? Is it not also true that it is thought that the number of Indians in North America at the time Columbus landed was around 1 million?
Look back at my post. Plea
March 23, 2007 - 18:16 ET by ChumlyLook back at my post. Please. I said "back in the day". I meant prior to the arrival of white man. Thay have all been wiped out.
Native American "expert"
March 23, 2007 - 12:46 ET by RJLOL! Chumley was taught, no doubt, by Native American "expert" Ward Churchill...or one of his graduates...
And?
March 23, 2007 - 12:29 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasAnd? Are you so naive to believe that simply because something has been with you from the beginning it should be viewed as necessary, tolerable, to be expected or embraced?
Shut up and blog! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
I'm with 2 out of 4. Necess
March 23, 2007 - 12:34 ET by sarcasmoI'm with 2 out of 4. Necessary? No. Tolerable? Yes. Expected? Yes, in a small percentage (see history). Embraced? No. Unless you count leaving people alone as that, and I guess some folks here probably do...
JMR
Sarc...
March 23, 2007 - 12:43 ET by Guy Arthur ThomasI think we have collaborated to discover a pretty good formula...not necessary but expected, tolerated but not embraced...thought it might not be a personal formula it might be a great macro-formula for social pratice.
Not Necessary But Expected
Tolerated But Not Embraced
Shut up and blog! If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
Made no claim one way or an
March 23, 2007 - 13:02 ET by ChumlyMade no claim one way or another. Check my post. My point is that he was wrong about what he said. And, if some of what he said is wrong, maybe that calls into question the rest of what he said. Maybe, maybe not.
I hate to say it, and I hop
March 23, 2007 - 17:57 ET by ChumlyI hate to say it, and I hope it is not true, (please tell me that it is not) but I think you are getting very close to sounding like a biggot, with that statement. Think about what you said. I am guessing your sentiments are very well represented on this blog.
Oh excuse me, I thought you
March 23, 2007 - 12:32 ET by MightyMouthOh excuse me, I thought you were making some kind of useless point about early Christians. When if fact your usless point was about the whole of mankind. I was referring to early Christians.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Apparently Neanderthals wer
March 23, 2007 - 12:37 ET by Jack BauerApparently Neanderthals were almost exclusively homosexual, and look how that turned out for them.
LOL Jack. Makes sense to me.S
March 23, 2007 - 12:41 ET by bassndudeLOL Jack. Makes sense to me.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
If this statement is true----
March 23, 2007 - 12:46 ET by misterbillApparently Neanderthals were almost exclusively homosexual, and look how that turned out for them.
If this statement is true----I hope all liberals are homosexuals!
Jack, It appears they are n
March 23, 2007 - 12:47 ET by MightyMouthJack, It appears they are not all extinct yet.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
More Stuff
March 22, 2007 - 22:57 ET by acumenYou seem nice enough as well......just got your facts wrong.
Federal funding for stem cell research has not been eliminated. Congress has not funded embryonic stem cell research - probably because embryonic stem cell research (unlike stem cells from umbilical cords, etc) has only shown promise in developing unwanted tumors. Religion? Hardly. Secularism - follow the money. Why no medical research on dead fetus' that were killed in the womb? Didn't the world already have that conversation with Mengele fifty years ago? You probably remember him better as the Auschwitz angel of death. Religion? Hardly. Simple compassion. How about trying to replace creation theory in the classroom with evolution? I believe that occured first, but let's keep that our little secret. Religion? Junk science at it's finest - that is, until Gore was given an oscar for his portrayal of a scientist. Condoms in high-schools? Be real. Thanks to your progressive brave new world - we have to hand them out so students don't knock up their teachers. Religion? Child abuse!
I can understand your misplaced hatred of Dubya. What I don't understand is why you hate people in undeveloped countries. Why don't you explain that to the class?
By supporting this silly, disproven nonsense that human CO2 emissions are responsible for climate change, you are preventing people in Africa and other undeveloped countries from using their natural resources, i.e.: coal, oil, etc., to provide a healthier life for themselves. So they continue to live without electricity to bring clean water from deep in the ground to a spicket in their hovel. Without electricity they have no temperature controlled home in which they can close their doors and windows leaving mosquitos and other disease-carrying insects/rodents outside. Without electricity they have no electric stove to cook their meals, so they resort to wood. The smoke of which makes the air in their homes so noxious that their life expectancy is half that of the developed world.
So just what is it that makes you hate these people so much that you would come on to a blog to champion erroneous human-induced global warming? They have no ties that I can think of to Bush, Cheney or even the dreaded Rove. So just what is your motivation? Please explain, I'm truly mystified.
Then maybe you can explain to the class why you hate the Iraqis and don't want them to succeed in freeing themselves from the oppression of terrorism. Sure they might have some love for Dubya but you certainly can't associate them with the religious-right. Why do you not want them to succeed? Still mystified.
The point being, in your quest to feel good about saving the world from every human except yourself and those that "feel" like you do, don't you see the harm you are doing to so many more that could care less about your feel-good ideology and are only interested in having a better life? Having a better life -- something political activists possess but don't seem to want to share with others. Not real progressive, but hey, as long as you can blame it on Bush......
Chumly...I will begin my comm
March 21, 2007 - 19:17 ET by Clear thinkerChumly...
I will begin my comments as opinion with something catchy like "I think" or "IMO" if that's what I'm writing. Otherwise I write honestly, but if you want to beat down my argument you will have to do the research yourself. I have grown weary of giving links or some type of proof only to have liberals tell me my info was bogus, so from now on others can do the work themselves.
Look above: Queenmum was kind enough to give you a link, so read it and learn.
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Get Used To It
March 21, 2007 - 19:25 ET by BlameTheMediaChumly,
Get used to it. It is a cultish group think situation in here. Dissent is not tolerated, except by the few intellectuals that actually understand discussion and subtle persuasion. They, can then, back up their thoughts with something intelligent instead of skirting every question with name calling and character assassination. Rarely can you get a straight answer. But there are a few true conservatives (notice I didn't say Republicans) in here who feel secure enough in their beliefs to have discourse beyond the Bush-led talking points.
LMAO!Too funny BM!Comedian of
March 21, 2007 - 19:37 ET by bigtimerLMAO!
Too funny BM!
Comedian of the night!
So far....
bt... It's amazing how many s
March 21, 2007 - 20:07 ET by Clear thinkerbt... It's amazing how many stand-up comics come here to test their material. This one needs a little work!
The liberal MSM has become an enemy of the USA.
Thank youThank youMy next s
March 21, 2007 - 20:11 ET by BlameTheMediaThank you
Thank you
My next show is at 11:00.
LOL
March 21, 2007 - 20:20 ET by gfrrmanFunny how your dissent is "not tolerated" here. Is demanding facts and questioning your "opinion" considered intolerant in your world? You're still here aren't you? Try your whiney crap at DU, HuffPo, dKos and see how long you last. Apparently, the fantasyland you live in means that if one doesn't agree with YOU then they must be silenced. That's the "tolerant" liberal way...nice. Quit WHINING!!!
Did you just see what you w
March 23, 2007 - 22:37 ET by ChumlyDid you just see what you wrote?? You are doing what you say you are not doing. Are you really just demanding facts and questioning opinions??! No, I think Blame the Media is right. What you guys do is try to sound forceful in your replies thinking that it gives more weight to your argument (which it doesn't, quite the opposite). One of you even said that he doesn't even provide links to back up what he is ranting about because he has become tired of doing so (apparently he thinks he is automatically correct about everything he rants about). One of you even has a tagline or motto that says something like "respect me or fear me".
You know what it going on here, then...you guys are perpetuating a culture of ignorance.
You no longer question what your cohorts are saying, nor even your information source (presumably, Fox "News", Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage...). You automatically assume that each of you are correct in your assessment of the issue in question and automatically bash someone with a different opinion or with differing facts. You automatically assume that since a person is liberal, they are always wrong.
That takes you down a very dark path that leads to things like fascism.
I do fear a culture of ignorance in our country. Especially since it will probably be passed on to your offspring who will be a part of our future political process and help bring our country down even lower than where we currently are in world standings (which is nowhere near the top in MOST categories).
chum
March 23, 2007 - 22:58 ET by gfrrmanYou obviously have the same c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n problems as some of the othe whiners on this sight. You didn't even read my comments or you can't understand plain English. Fascism? You need to look it up, cause it ain't appplying here.
Well, I really meant my comme
March 23, 2007 - 23:40 ET by ChumlyWell, I really meant my comments for several of the other thugs on this blog. They are absolutely over the top as far as attitude and behavior are concerned. Sorry to take it out on you. I'll admit that you weren't too abusive in your comments.
About the fascism comment - I was referring to the tolerance issue here. Very intolerant thugs on this blog.
chum
March 24, 2007 - 00:00 ET by gfrrmanI think we all here can agree to disagree, but I will have to say Chum, sometimes you project the same attitude. That doesn't make it right but you have to own up to it too. Btw, me thinks you use the word fascism way too loosely. It's not appropriate to anything I have read on this sight. Maybe check you definition again?...the get back to me. You damn sure won't get any courteousy at DKos, HuffPO, nor DU compared to the slack you get here.. Just a thought. You're welcome to debate here in my book anyway...for what that's worth...lol.
Fair enough. I probably wo
March 24, 2007 - 00:37 ET by ChumlyFair enough. I probably won't be coming back. This has been my first experience with a political blog and I was not prepared for the animosity coming from most of the people here.
It has really been an eye-opener for me to see such venom, hate, and disrespect coming from some of these people (I haven't been to the other sites that you mentioned to compare the attitude and behavior).
No matter who you are or what your political leanings... poor and abusive behavior definitely erodes a persons credibility (note to habitual perpetrators).
Chum
March 24, 2007 - 01:00 ET by gfrrmanYou gotta get your thick skin on and not worry about stuff like that. You can't crawl in the corner and tuck your tail. That's cowardice(I know you don't want to hear that). You can post on this site by sticking to facts and not feelings. That's the main difference between libs and conservatives. Facts and feelings. If someone calls you on something, just back it up!! Don't let a few hard-asses get your goat. I'll admit there are a few here, but you gotta stick to your guns unless someone shows you that your facts are wrong. Sometimes you learn something...hell that's the easiest part!!! Pick your battles. You gotta remember this is overwhelmingly conservative thought here, but not all. There is a large mix of attitudes as well. Rude is rude, and poor behavior is not right. Just remember, everybodys' got one. Hope to se ya soon, Don't be shy!! :-)
I would love to debate you.
March 26, 2007 - 13:40 ET by ChumlyI would love to debate you. Honest, respectful political sparring. But, every reply I get is full of insults and juvinile behavior. You just called me cowardly.
As far as Fascism is concerned...
From Dictionary .com...
Fascism:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a
dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the
opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of
belligerent nationalism and racism.
Sound familiar?? I have even seen biggotry on this blog...
and...
Fascism:
(sometimes initial capital letter) a
governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly
suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry,
commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often
racism.
Yes, honestly, I see fascist attitudes on this blog as well as in the White House.
Wow, what a whiner you are, Chumpster
March 26, 2007 - 15:07 ET by RJWow, what a whiner you are, Chumpster. You get treated disrespectfully and laughed at because many of us have no patience with clearly silly and disingenuous postings of the type you put up....you waste the time of people who try to communicate with you....and you don't have the self-awareness to understand that, do you, pobrecito?
Perpetuating a culture of i
March 23, 2007 - 23:47 ET by ChumlyPerpetuating a culture of ignorance stands though. That is what goes on in these intolerant groups. Each person in the group starts assuming a facade of being beyond reproach, unquestionable. Especially when they reiterate what they hear from their heroes on Fox "News".
Merely associating with them impugns a person's credibility.
chum
March 24, 2007 - 00:03 ET by gfrrman"Merely associating with them impugns a person's credibility".
No more so than the heroes of the MSM.
Horsecrap.
March 22, 2007 - 21:22 ET by NL207Horsecrap.
Please show me some documet
March 21, 2007 - 19:47 ET by Jack BauerPlease show me some documetation that the polar bear population is thriving.
As I don't actually care what you think, I'm politely declining your offer. I urge my NBuddies to tell him to stuff it, too.
But please sir or madam, feel free to provide documentation that the Polar Bear population is declining.
"By the way, in case y
March 20, 2007 - 20:18 ET by ckc1227"By the way, in case you did not read this one, according to climate scientists the earth has just experienced the WARMEST WINTER since records have been kept..."
And I for one am happy about it.
Still, despite the "WARMEST WINTER since records have been kept", it still isn't possible to farm Greenland like was possible a few centuries ago, mainly because Greenland is basically a block of ice.
By the way, what was the warmest on record before this years alleged record, and was that caused by man's . 28 percent(point 28) contribution to greenhouse gases too?
Illegal Immigrants cause global warming. Build the wall to save the Earth. Don't we owe it to the children?
Chumly, either for affect or
March 20, 2007 - 21:07 ET by jdhawkChumly, either for affect or just laziness on your part, you left out this part of the article which is crucile to understanding its primary contention: "The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said the combined land and ocean temperatures for December through February were 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit above average for the period since record keeping began in 1880." So, "this winter was the warmest on record worldwide," is really talking about a period of little more than 127 years.
Meanwhile, I guess the author didn't expect anyone to check, NOAA's web site reveals that their data set starts January 1, 1933. See for yourself here: http://data.nssl.noaa.gov/dataselect/nssl_options.php?outputtype=stnlist. So, of the last 74 years, this has been the warmest. Wow, I am having the house moving company put my beach front house on blocks and move it to Kansas ASAP lest it drown like the cuddly polar bear! lol
Record High Temperatures
March 20, 2007 - 22:33 ET by pbthinkerOK, before I start, for you up North people, this isn't gloating it's fact. Every day, the Palm Beach Post has a weather page that is reasonably complete. They give the temperatures, from around the country and the world. They also include a history of the day, including the rainfall, the high temp/low temp and the record for each. Today's high was 76 degrees, the record high, for this date, was 89 degrees and it was in 1924.
One has to wonder how much the UHIE (Urban Heat Island Effect) and the fact that there has been a removal of many remote temperature sensing devices, has to do with the increase in temperatures?
I'm always amazed to see this page, inthe Post, since it generally refutes the fact that we're warmer today than ever. We seldom break records, on temperature here, so it's interesting to watch this evolve.
From NOAA..."Global Hi
March 21, 2007 - 14:55 ET by ChumlyFrom NOAA...
"Global HighlightsThe global land and ocean surface temperature was the 6th warmest on
record in February, but a record warm January helped push the boreal
winter (December-February) to its highest value since records began in
1880 (1.30°F/0.72°C above the 20th century mean)."
Proves nothing Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 15:28 ET by RJ"since records began in 1880" Proving absolutely nothing, Chumley. You guys slay me. You ignore that record keeping until recently was pretty hit and miss.
First, if you accept the accuracy of early instruments, and if you accept that measurements were taken consistently at the same time of day for the entire period, and if you accept that instruments have always been placed in the same position (I bet those early ocean and mountain temperatures were VERY accurate and consistant!) and if you accept that evolving heat islands, etc, didn't change the value...if...if...if...then, what the hell do a few years and a couple of degrees for those years mean over the history of the earth?
RJ, please refrain from ass
March 21, 2007 - 15:32 ET by The Wicked ConservativeRJ, please refrain from assaulting Chumleys religious beliefs with your facts and casual observations. Science can only be used when it supports their faith and is otherwise unwelcome in the debate.
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realizes that it bears a very close resemblence to the first.
- Ronald Reagan
Facts?! Show me some fac
March 21, 2007 - 16:35 ET by ChumlyFacts?! Show me some facts. All you guys are offering are opinions and Vitriol. The same thing Fox "News" broadcasts. Please, show me facts. Don't think I haven't noticed that you guys tend to attack anyone who disagrees with you, with out actually engaging in rational discourse.
You just did that in the post I am replying to.
Is there anybody on this thread from the scientific community?
Geez Chum... You still here?
March 21, 2007 - 16:56 ET by bigtimerGeez Chum...
You still here?
I have a great idea...stroll on over to a scientific blog and post there.
http://climate.weather.com/blog/9_11592.html
Nobody will miss you...
Troll.
Chumly: Just try to ignore th
March 22, 2007 - 10:53 ET by QueenMumChumly: Just try to ignore the posts that you don't feel are valuable to the discussion. That's what I do. But don't try to cover up when your "facts" are being questioned by going on a whiny rant about how no one is taking you seriously.
You've been given a number of resources to consider which contradict your point of view. If you choose to ignore them, then you're demonstrating that you really don't want to approach the topic scientifically.
P.S. You seem to believe that those who disagree with you haven't bothered to listen to what sources such as ABC, PBS and the BBC have to say. But you see, we've all had plenty of exposure to that side of the issue because of the liberal bias of the MsM. All we ask is that people consider doing their own research for information from a variety of sources - not simply take what the MsM has determined is the truth as the final word.
"but a record warm Janua
March 22, 2007 - 10:41 ET by QueenMum"but a record warm January helped push the boreal winter ... to its highest value since records began in 1880 (1.30 F)"
Wow!! A 1.3 deg. increase in the average winter temp.? Hm. So how come when the temp rises from 16 degs. to 17.3 degs., I don't notice much difference? Given that this "increase" factors in a "record warm January", I don't see that this represents a significant climate change.
"6th warmest on record in February .... since 1880."
Please provide the dates and temperatures for the other six warmest.
You AGW clowns amaze me.And h
March 20, 2007 - 22:45 ET by NL207You AGW clowns amaze me.
And how many winters has the earth experienced? Something more than 10 raised to the 9th power? And how many have we recorded temperatures over? About 150 or so? Few grains of sand on the beach.
You have said nothing of significance on this subject.
according to climate scient
March 21, 2007 - 19:51 ET by Jack Baueraccording to climate scientists the earth has just experienced the WARMEST WINTER since records have been kept...
Mmm, let's see... 4 BILLION years of weather. (That's 4,000,000,000, for all lib***ls) and "records going back to 1880.
Something isn't adding up here. Oh yeah. You.
You know what the problem is here? Of course you don't!
Chris...LOL funny!So danged t
March 20, 2007 - 20:01 ET by bigtimerChris...
LOL funny!
So danged true too!
The Polar Bears
March 20, 2007 - 19:57 ET by pbthinkerIt wasn't long, after the original story of this picture appeared on Newsbusters, that the Palm Beach Post printed Ellen Goodman's commentary, which included the same photo. I e-mailed the editor, of the Editorial Page, and informed him of this. He said he would send it on to the ombudsman. I don't know what happened, I do know that the Post never printed anything disclaiming this picture.
Perhaps this is why, it appears to me, some of the scientists are revolting against the Al Gore's and the media, who are overhyping this story so that, if there is any truth to this, there will no longer be any credibility with the scientists. A scientist, without credibility, is worthless.
"According to leading Ca
March 20, 2007 - 20:09 ET by Galvanic". . .Yet actual research reveals that the bears are thriving in those areas where there is warming, and suffering where their is cooling. (Yes, Arctic cooling.) According to leading Canadian polar bear biologist Dr. Mitchell Taylor, Department of the Environment, Government of Nunavut, 'Of the thirteen populations of polar bears in Canada, eleven are stable or increasing in number. They are not going extinct, or even appear to be affected at present.'" (from Christopher C. Horner, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism, p. 142)
The story about the polar b
March 20, 2007 - 21:15 ET by radiofitz34The story about the polar bear photo will never make it to the MSM. Because as you know -- This is the news of the Soviet Union er aah America. It's obvious to us that pertanent stories are not aired by the MSM unless it meets their agenda. Sometimes, that even includes Fox News.
Chumley
March 21, 2007 - 06:50 ET by ltcolusmcretChumley, Come out of your mother's basement. Ignorant, unemployed and > 40 is bad enough without having to live off your parents.
Photographer?
March 21, 2007 - 09:36 ET by NetizenCainThe NZ Herald claims that the photo was taken by Dan Crosbie. I sent an email to the editors of NZH to aske that the verify the validity of their caption. And while I hate to jump to conclusions, who can we trust here? The one thing I hate about the internet is the lack of confidence I have in sources. Newsbusters links to a site that claims the Ms. X took a photo. Other sites claim that Mr. Y. took the photo. How can I be sure which site is correct?
http://www.nzherald....
gw report
March 21, 2007 - 20:00 ET by BlameTheMediahttp://www.ipcc.ch/S...
Disclaimer
March 21, 2007 - 20:07 ET by acumenThe above advertisement paid for by proceeds skimmed from the Saddam Oil For Food Scam.
That's not the actual report,
March 22, 2007 - 21:43 ET by NL207That's not the actual report, Blame. That is the "policymakers summary". Why do you suppose they preceeded their actual report with a 'policymakers summary' by 4 or 5 months? Tell me this: How do you summarize a report that has not yet been written? Could it be that the IPCC really isn't all that concerned about what the science says, as long as it supports their agenda?