It was Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards trying to revive his ‘70s disco moves and he danced around every tough question CNN’s Miles O’Brien threw at him. Most notably, how much does it cost to pay for energy in the new 28,000-square-foot mansion Edwards calls home?
Edwards tried several answers during the March 20 “American Morning”:
- “It’s actually not bad.” And followed that up with talk of how energy efficient the home was.
- “I’m not telling you. It’s actually, it’s actually not bad. It’s about three or four hundred dollars, the last one I saw.”
- Following that claim, Edwards backed off a bit and said “the power bill is several hundred dollars a month.”
Edwards also claimed he and his family operate the house in a “carbon neutral way,” though he wants to put caps on how much carbon dioxide businesses operate. “We have committed to operate this house in a carbon neutral way which means in addition to using energy saving devices in the house itself, to the extent that doesn’t cover it, we’re going to purchase carbon credits on the market,” said Edwards.
Such offsets have been big news lately and even the Oscars claimed they were “carbon neutral.” The March 26 issue of BusinessWeek questioned the whole nature of such offsets and said “some deals amount to little more than feel good hype.”
Former Vice President Al Gore has received criticism for his own carbon offsets, though the media have been supportive. “If more people do it over time, it’s a good thing,” said reporter Russ Mitchell during the “Early Show” on CBS February 22.
O’Brien asked about Edwards “getting Americans to conserve more.” Edwards responded with talk of conservation and then requirements. “One of the things that’s going to be required is for Americans to be willing to drive more fuel efficient vehicles and to be willing to conserve and we want to help them do that.”
—Dan Gainor is vice president for Business and Culture at the Media Research Center.




















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Well it's good to hear that
February 18, 2008 - 11:19 ET by GordmanWell it's good to hear that a mansion registers an energy consume of only several hundreds a month but I don't buy it. There are many people complaining about the huge electrical bills as they have many electric appliance in their homes. I think we need a general movement promoting a greener life style for everyone. I think renwing the old appliance parts would be a good step for those complaining. This would bring much more benefits apart from electrical savings.
Like a Bolshevik astonished t
March 20, 2007 - 12:17 ET by PeskyDaneLike a Bolshevik astonished that he is being put up against the wall to be shot, is never occurs to Edwards that the policies he wants to impose on others might just turn around and bite him in the britches.
carbon nuetral
March 20, 2007 - 14:18 ET by tejanodiabloto zero his carbon footprint he could sign over the manse to a homeless shelter .. fat chance .. edwards and gore, two of a kind ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
28,000 SF Home of Edwards?
March 20, 2007 - 12:22 ET by Gary Hall28,000 SF Home of Edwards? Dan, I have to wonder if Edward's stab at his electric bill being several hundred dollars a month leaned more towards $900? I suspect that the average 1,500 SF home ends up with about a $80-100/mo. bill (more here in S. California), and according to Edward's wife, Elizabeth, over at the Edwards Blog, their home is "Energy Star" rated - saving some 30%. While they claim it is very well insulated, and the water is solar heated, I find it difficult to believe that his average monthly bill will be only in the "several hundred dollar range."
Can't wait to see his electric bill in the middle of the summer, when the sweltering heat engulfs and that massive central air conditioner kicks in.
Well, if Al Gore's 10,000 sq
March 20, 2007 - 13:03 ET by dscottWell, if Al Gore's 10,000 sq ft house used over $1,000/ month one would expect to see Edwards house at virtually 3 times the size use 3 times the electricity at 28,000 sq ft. It takes energy to both heat and cool any house and that is proportional to the square footage. So, does this guy have more than one electric meter so he can lawyerly say "I saw" a bill for $800 or $900? Someone needs to do the public records check. Since he didn't crow about using geothermal like Bush's house, I suspect he doesn't use it.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
A quick clarification: Squ
March 20, 2007 - 13:26 ET by Interested and concerned CDNA quick clarification:
Squared is X to the power of 2 so 3x3=9.
or 4x4=16
Volume is X to the power of 3 so 3x3x3=27
or 4x4x4=64
as the square footage goes up the volume required to heat or cool is EXPONENTIALLY(sp) larger.
Funny thing here is that from a temp maintenience standpoint, its probably quite effecient, but very very expensive to cool down... or heat up... just like the earth, blahahahaha.
Well, yes and no. When we u
March 20, 2007 - 14:16 ET by dscottWell, yes and no. When we use square footage figures it is assumed we are also talking about the same proportional volumes based on an 8 or 9 foot ceiling. So a 20,000 sq ft house will have twice the volume of a 10,000 sq ft house if they have similar ceiling heights. Now you do have a point on the volume if Cathedral ceilings are involved.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Arrgh dscott, i wanted to ame
March 20, 2007 - 14:57 ET by Interested and concerned CDNArrgh dscott, i wanted to amend my post before someone corrected me but a business call came in.
You are, of course, correct.
My wife and I have a 2,600
March 20, 2007 - 13:16 ET by steviep831My wife and I have a 2,600 sf home and our electric bill is close to $300... and I'm very sensitive to electricity use in the home. I've even outfitted most lights in the home with CFL and traditional fluorescent lighting. There is no way in hell that a 28,000 sf home uses $300-400 worth of electricity. They must use flashlights to light the home and cook their foods on the rocks in the garden. It's just not possible.
Wife and I have a 3100 SF hom
March 20, 2007 - 13:24 ET by florida_chadWife and I have a 3100 SF home in FL. Average bill is $425 / month.
Has Edwards moved in yet?
March 20, 2007 - 13:42 ET by Gary HallHas Edwards moved in yet? - Maybe the house is still vacant and kept dark and that's why the electric bill is only $3-400. Also, he said "the power bill." Power bill usually indicates "electric." His heating, cooking, etc., might be natural gas (or propane) if he's out in the sticks.
Those are valid points to be
March 20, 2007 - 14:41 ET by steviep831Those are valid points to be made. Perhaps he hasn't moved in yet. Perhaps he's not including the heating, etc. But you'd think that one who is making these arguments would point these important details out to us if he was trying to make a point... Just saying, "It's not that bad," tells me absolutely nothing. "Not that bad" for me obviously will mean something completely different to someone who has as much money as Edwards.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that my electric bill includes water use...
That's right we haven't even
March 20, 2007 - 14:53 ET by dscottThat's right we haven't even discussed the water usage. Can you imagine the water bill on this property? How much landscape irrigation is going on? Does it come from the city or a well? Water is an important and declining natural resource, why should the aquatic life suffer for the lavish lifestyles of the rich? Inquiring minds want to know...
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Exactly, which means that we
March 20, 2007 - 14:23 ET by dscottExactly, which means that we would expect to see Edward's house (28,000 sq ft) use approx. 10 times what you use at 2,600 sq ft. being 10 times the size. So that means Edwards is paying close to $3k a month in electricity, that's assuming he has a similar electric rate as you and you both use electricity for the same appliances. If Edwards say had most of his high energy consuming appliances (heater, dryer, water heater and even air conditioner) run off of natural gas instead of electricity, of course his electric bill would be smaller. But you being in Florida probably have an all electric house? But then all we are talking about is swapping one form of energy for another. The bottom line, the bigger the house, the higher the energy consumption to run that house.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Your last sentence is very
March 20, 2007 - 15:10 ET by steviep831Your last sentence is very true. I would also bet that the Breck girl hasn't seen an electric bill for any of his properties within the last 2 or 3 years. Come on, 28,000 sf? That is absolutely absurd! Would you pay your own bills if you could afford a 28,00 sf home? I would offer that most celebrities don't have a home that large. I used to watch Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous... and MTV Cribs...
Precisely, it is absurd. Wh
March 20, 2007 - 15:25 ET by dscottPrecisely, it is absurd. Who in their right minds would live in a house 28,000 sq ft! But we are not talking about the average American are we? We are talking about Edwards who is rich, he belongs to an exclusive group of Americans, the 5% of the population (15 million) who own 70% of the personal wealth of the US. So does Al Gore. They are welcome to spend their money any way they choose but to demand we the 95% of the popultion (285 million) cut back when he uses probably 40 times as much energy as the average American household on just one house???? Then claims he is carbon neutral??? I think not.
Oh btw, that female comedian on the D list (I watched her show), her house is 10,000 sq ft, that's what got me to thinking about this whole issue. If she, a hollywood person, has such a huge house, then the rest of the hollywood people do as well. That means Brad Pitt does as well, the guy who claimed we Americans are consuming the planet. Ummm, folks, the people who are consuming the planet are the rich and famous, not the average American. These people (5%) use as much if not more energy than all of us (95%) combined!!!!!! Mind boggling!!!!
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Edwards and Gore - carbon swap with Bush?
March 20, 2007 - 15:51 ET by Gary HallEdwards and Gore - carbon swap with Bush?
Possibly Edwads and algord should consider buying carbon credits from President George Bush - man who walk tall and carry little stick!
Everyone please copy and send to about a thousand wackos.
$$
March 20, 2007 - 14:32 ET by tejanodiablowith kids out of college, wife and i retired to our 1400 sq ft cabin (after some renovation) .. 2 elec meters, one for house & barn = $80. / mo. .. 2nd meter for well (house, barn & livestock) also runs about $80.+/ mo. .. here in hill country of Texas, in dead of august, watering fruit trees and a dozen pecan trees, doesn't run over $200. total ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
I live in New Hampshire, wher
March 20, 2007 - 20:07 ET by Del DolemonteI live in New Hampshire, where a group of liberal environmentalist kooks ran our state's power company, PSNH, out of business in the 1970s and 1980s by preventing them from building the second of two planned nuclear plants (Seabrook). PSNH is still around, but our energy costs are among the highest in the nation.
I live in a 900 square foot house, with all of my lights being the new "spiral" fluorescent jobs. But my electric bill is still almost $100 a month.
and we want to help them do
March 20, 2007 - 12:46 ET by Dave in Texasand we want to help them do that.
Oh boy, the "h word". Is this the same way that social security helps me save for retirement?
Isn't mansion a misnomer? In
March 20, 2007 - 12:51 ET by allanfIsn't mansion a misnomer? In his part of the country one should use the proper Hillary Clinton terminology: plantation. From his plantation Edwards benevolently looks after the little people.
For those who might have miss
March 20, 2007 - 12:53 ET by dahliatraversFor those who might have missed it, below is the video Jack Bauer produced "for" the Edwards campaign.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE-8csu7-bk
dahlia -- your two cents ar
March 20, 2007 - 13:34 ET by Jack Bauerdahlia -- your two cents are in the mail.
Okay Jack...I want equal pay.
March 20, 2007 - 13:52 ET by bigtimerOkay Jack...
I want equal pay...it is has been sent all over the USA by now from me too...
LMAO!
Vote early Vote often on the video folks!
energy bill
March 20, 2007 - 13:26 ET by BlameTheMediaWho cares? Why is this news?
Are you obtuse? Who is it d
March 20, 2007 - 14:11 ET by dscottAre you obtuse? Who is it demanding we the 95% of the population cut back on our piddly energy use when the 5% of the population represented by Al Gore and Edwards uses as much residentially as most of the US population (i.e. the 95% of us)???? If Gore and Edwards along with the rest of the 5% of the population (15 million people) would voluntarily cut back even 10% of their energy consumption, the savings would be enormous!!!!
Just to give you a little perspective: It would take 200 households of the average American (95% or 285 million) saving 10% of their energy just to offset Al Gore's house! The size of Edwards house basically means instead of using 20 times the electricity as Al Gore does, Edwards probably uses 40 times the electicity of the average house hold. It's mind boggling.
BTW- please explain to me how living in a 28,000 sq ft house is environmentally sustainable? Or for that matter carbon neutral? The only way to even approach carbon neutrality would be for Edwards to power his home from solar panels and wind turbine. Buying from the electric company doesn't cut it since at his rate of consumption, Edwards would be displacing smaller consumers buying green power not agumenting.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
What about Mrs Bill Clint
March 20, 2007 - 14:28 ET by Jack BauerWhat about Mrs Bill Clinton's carbon BUTTPRINT.
That looks gi-normous to me. How's she gonna offset THAT come New Hampshire?
NAUGHTY!
March 20, 2007 - 20:25 ET by dahliatraversNAUGHTY!
I know. Her Royal Thighness
March 20, 2007 - 20:56 ET by Jack BauerI know. Her Royal Thighness would not be amused!
Actually, Edwards got off way
March 20, 2007 - 14:28 ET by NoMoreClintonsActually, Edwards got off way too easily . . . if it had been a Republican being interviewed they would have kept him on the ropes a lot longer with follow up questions designed to make it look like the interviewee was hiding something. Having said that, it's about time one of these pansy ass liberal media outlets asked some real questions of a DemocRAT. Edwards is such a blatant hypocrite that it must nauseate even the liberal reporters . . . maybe.
Only Democrats live in big houses.
March 20, 2007 - 15:03 ET by BlameTheMediaYes, and everyone knows that not one single republican lives in a big house, mansion, or plantation.
Everyone knows that. So at least this conversation isn't biased.
Thank you for bringing up tha
March 20, 2007 - 15:34 ET by dscottThank you for bringing up that point. I haven't heard one Repub or Conservative brag about being Carbon Neutral as Al Gore or John Edwards. Not one has made the pretense about themselves demanding all of us cut back when they themselves should do it first. In fact, President Bush's house in Crawford TX is an energy efficient house with passive solar heat and geothermal cooling but he doesn't crow about it. Hmmmm, Repubs walk the walk and Dems just talk. Thanks for pointing that out.
And this points out what leadership is all about, President Bush lives the lifestyle and Al Gore and John Edwards talk about but don't do it. A leader doesn't ask his followers to do what he is unwilling to do himself. A leader shows leadership by doing first what he is asking others to do. Neither Al Gore or John Edwards has shown any leadership when it comes to saving energy, they just talk, talk, talk. Buying carbon offsets doesn't cut it. If you talk the talk you must walk it as well.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
How is John Edwards powering
March 20, 2007 - 16:02 ET by blarsenHow is John Edwards powering his house? With gas generators, coal, hydroelectricity?
The conservatives like to say they're all about picking yourself up by your bootstraps and going out into the world and being a good capitalist and earning a fortune if you can, but as soon as a democrat does just that he's branded as an evil hypocrite. John Edwards made a fortune as a lawyer. What the neocons call a "dirty trial lawyer". He defended families and children against negligent big business so that MUST make him bad. He received a big judgement against a pool drain company that refused to put a guard around a drain that ended up disembowling a little girl. He's a real horrible guy alright. How about Rush Limbaugh? What has he done other than blow out a lot of hot air and lies? I'm sure however Edwards powers his house he can afford it and it's a non or low polluting source.
Class warfare is fun! If only
March 20, 2007 - 16:06 ET by Roger the ShrubberClass warfare is fun!
If only Rush could channel, he would be president. Blahs would have killed himself.
We don't object to anyone mak
March 20, 2007 - 16:09 ET by dscottWe don't object to anyone making money, we don't object to how a person spends their money. We object to people making false claims to cover their lavish lifestyle and then demand we the average American must cut back. Big hairy deal how he makes his money. Just keep your hands out of our pockets with your ridiculous carbon tax and gas taxes.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
blarsen, do you often reply
March 20, 2007 - 16:13 ET by MightyMouthblarsen, do you often reply to posts without reading them first? The comments have been made that its ok to use the power you can afford as long as you don't tell the rest of us peasants we cant (or shouldn't) do the same thing.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
blarson - Huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA giggle, snigger.
March 20, 2007 - 16:14 ET by acaiguanablarson - Huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA giggle, snigger.
"How is John Edwards powering his house? With gas generators, coal, hydroelectricity?"
Ummmm,
who cares?
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
barson...John sayes he is goi
March 20, 2007 - 16:16 ET by bassndudebarson...John sayes he is going to buy carbon credits, so his footprint will be neutral. The fact that he has been going around preaching about living green, and telling you how you should live and he dosent do it himself. But, he intends to. Rush dosent preach about living green. I dont either. In fact, I promote buying SUV's, to pull your boat and park your boat in heated and cooled storage areas. I say, fly your planes, water your plants and make your home comfortable for you, and not some dufus telling you where to set your temps at. My home is 72 degrees, year round, day and night. I pay my electric and gas bill so it will be the way I like it. And I dont tell anyone else they should do diffrent. Unlike Edwards and Gore.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Admit it Blarsen
March 20, 2007 - 16:19 ET by RJYou're a hoot, Blarsen. Admit it, the staff of Newsbusters put you here for comic entertainment, right?
John "I Am Woman"
March 20, 2007 - 16:36 ET by Jack BauerJohn "I Am Woman" Edwards is a "trial" lawyer.
He is a parasite on the working classes. He doesn't create wealth, but he does earn his money off the backs of the least advantaged.
I'd class him as a running dog lackey of the socialist classes. I believe Marxists call him bourgeoise.
I Am Woman -- John Edwards
Read "Four Trials" and then y
March 20, 2007 - 18:11 ET by blarsenRead "Four Trials" and then you'll be enlightened.
Edwards is a charlatan, blarsen
March 20, 2007 - 18:23 ET by RJDoes he talk about "channeling" dead babies in the courtroom? What a charlatan.
RJ -- oh, a classless actio
March 20, 2007 - 20:18 ET by Jack BauerRJ -- oh, he's a classless action alright.
Yes, and everyone knows tha
March 20, 2007 - 15:43 ET by Dave in TexasYes, and everyone knows that not one single republican lives in a big house, mansion, or plantation.
I'm sure there are plenty of republicans who live in big houses and use energy like there's no tomorrow. And as long as they do this without lecturing me on the need for me to reduce my energy consumption, I say more power to them. That goes for democrats and libertarians as well.
But Senator Edwards is telling me that I need to make sacrifices that he isn't willing to make, which makes him a hypocrite.
It's not about which Republ
March 20, 2007 - 15:53 ET by steviep831It's not about which Republicans live in big houses, it's about going around and making arguements for living carbon neutral and not living up to what you preach to others. If there are Republicans that live in big houses that preach carbon neutrality and believe people should change their lifestyles as a result of GW then I'd go after them... McCain comes to mind. Maybe we should look into his lifestyle since he apparently wants to "handle" GW when he's president.
BTW... Yes I know BTM is a troll, but... just for the record...
Edwards
March 20, 2007 - 15:33 ET by pocomocoEdwards said “the power bill is several hundred dollars a month"
I believe he mis-spoke, He really meant "..... several hundred dollars a day"
March 20, 2007 - 15:38 ET by BlameTheMedia-->
Is George Bush a Closet Green?
by Lloyd Alter, Toronto on 02.19.07
Design & Architecture
Only your dispassionate Canadian correspondent could write this
without colour or favour, but is it possible that George Bush is a
secret Green? Evidently his Crawford Winter White House has 25,000
gallons of rainwater storage, gray water collection from sinks and
showers for irrigation, passive solar, geothermal heating and cooling.
“By marketplace standards, the house is startlingly small,” says David
Heymann, the architect of the 4,000-square-foot home. “Clients of
similar ilk are building 16-to-20,000-square-foot houses.” Furthermore
for thermal mass the walls are clad in "discards of a local stone
called Leuders limestone, which is quarried in the area. The
12-to-18-inch-thick stone has a mix of colors on the top and bottom,
with a cream- colored center that most people want. “They cut the top
and bottom of it off because nobody really wants it,” Heymann says. “So
we bought all this throwaway stone. It’s fabulous. It’s got great color
and it is relatively inexpensive.” Hmm, back to that vote about the Greenest President?
And....?
March 20, 2007 - 16:03 ET by Roger the ShrubberAnd....?
Shrubbery
March 20, 2007 - 17:29 ET by BlameTheMediaThis is a good thing. That's the and.
Exactly, you are finally disc
March 20, 2007 - 16:04 ET by dscottExactly, you are finally discovering what "Conservatism" is all about. Using your resources wisely and cost effectively, that's why liberals call us conservatives - CHEAP. Lavish spending on oneself is contrary to conservatism. In the process, the environment also benefits as we conservatives live on a smaller footprint than you liberals by our very nature. But don't confuse us Conservatives with RINOs, they are liberals who don't embrace conservatism only the Repub name like John McCain or Arlen Spector.
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius
Edwards frankly has NO IDEA w
March 20, 2007 - 16:13 ET by gxa99Edwards frankly has NO IDEA what his electric/power bill is. For those of us peons who actually open the bill up every month, WE KNOW! I live in a brand new 1400sq ft "energy eficiant" house in Phoenix, AZ. And during the winter months when the heat or A/C is NEVER turned on I still pay $80 a month, gas stove and all. Summer time bill is around $200 per month.
Edwards is a big fat liar. - 28000sq ft and only several hundred dollars a month - MY A$$!!!!
What I'm seeing here are a lo
March 20, 2007 - 16:37 ET by blarsenWhat I'm seeing here are a lot of bitter, jealous, whiney little people who just can't stand to see a good looking democrat have more than they do. It really has nothing to do with energy.
The prissy Breck Girl
March 20, 2007 - 16:49 ET by RJSo the prissy, metrosexual Breck Girl is your definition of "good looking?" Good to know, Blarsen. Check him out on youtube. You'll swoon when he glosses his lips at the end of the video.
http://www.youtube.c...
Hey you wanna see a woman? Ch
March 20, 2007 - 16:58 ET by blarsenHey you wanna see a woman? Check out your boy Rudy!
http://thebluerepubl...
Look kid, I have seen poten
March 20, 2007 - 17:04 ET by MightyMouthLook kid, I have seen potential in you... well maybe that was balboa. Anyhow, give it up and come over to the right side. You know what you should do. It's time to grow up and take responsibilty for your actions. Come to the GOP alter and have your sins washed away. Start being a man. You can do it!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I've voted republican as many
March 20, 2007 - 17:23 ET by blarsenI've voted republican as many times as I've voted democrat. George Bush and his ilk have not only damaged, but utterly destroyed the presidency. There are many conservatives in my family tree and most of them agree George Bush has done much more harm than good to the reputation of the United States. I can't understand how knowing what we know about what has happened in Iraq, New Orleans and the way our veterans have been treated that the conservatives still give him a free pass. How long will it take before more republicans wake up and realize the leader of their party is a C- student.
We don't give Bush a free pass. He earned the pass.
March 20, 2007 - 17:27 ET by acaiguanaWe don't give Bush a free pass. He earned the pass.
We just don't abandon our Allies, Bush, when they have faults.
Just like Bush doesn't back out of his commitments.
And as far as your angst over France, well...
<insert Bronx Cheer>
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
pars my ars
March 20, 2007 - 18:13 ET by BlameTheMediaHow the heck did he "earn" a pass?
And, France and Germany were and are allies... they disagreed on the war in Iraq and now we have freedom fries. Please, he's abandoned and alienated more people and countries than I have time to mention.
For instance, Palestine has democratic elections... but... gee, sorry, we don't like who you elected so we're going to sanction you. If you would have only voted in your fledgling democracy how we wanted you to vote... So Sorry.
BlameTheMedia - 'Please, he's (Bush) abandonded and ...'
March 21, 2007 - 09:43 ET by acaiguanaBlameTheMedia - 'Please, he's (Bush) abandonded and ...'
Here's sorta kinda where I stand on the French.
:-)
As far as the rest of your concept of 'free' elections, I would suggest you saunter over to Palistine and try this scenario on for size:
Palistinian at Home: <Answer door knock> "Yes?"
Humas Guy with AK-47: "You are head of household?"
Palistinian at Home: "Yes"
Humas Guy with AK-47: "You must go with us to vote, and your family too."
Palistinian at Home: "Vote?"
Humas Guy with AK-47: "Yes you dog - vote."
Palistinian at Home: "Um, well the kids are sick and I..."
Humas Guy with AK-47: <chambers round into rifle> "Vote! Get my point?"
Palistinian at Home: "Um.. Oh yes, very much so - I was just saying to my wife, we have to vote today..."
Humas Guy with AK-47: <gestures to VW microbus> "Get in - Get in, we have lots more 'free' election voters to pick up today... Oh, read this while you ride." <hands Palistinian at home guy paper with correct ballot marks> "Keep that, you will need it in booth."
:-)
So be it. Free.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
blarsen
March 20, 2007 - 17:29 ET by RJ"utterly destroyed the presidency"
While it might be fun to hold your feet to the fire on that silly statement, I'd prefer to ask, since you claim to have voted Republican as often as Democrat, who you see as the best choice in '08?
For a democrat, I'd like to s
March 20, 2007 - 18:05 ET by blarsenFor a democrat, I'd like to see either Feingold or Richardson. The republicans are much tougher. They all have many skeletons in their closets. The closest I'd go would be with Hagel or Tommy Thompson. The republicans will have a very tough November in '08 because of George Bush.
Blarsen, you didn't answer the question
March 20, 2007 - 18:16 ET by RJBlarsen, you didn't answer the quesion. (OK, I could have been more specific) I'm asking about likely candidates, not who do you like.
Well, right now Obama, Hillar
March 20, 2007 - 18:23 ET by blarsenWell, right now Obama, Hillary or Edwards would kick the crap out of Rudy, Romney or McCain. How's that?
You're ducking blarsen
March 20, 2007 - 18:30 ET by RJYou're ducking. The obvious reason I'm asking and the likely reason you're ducking is that you claimed to have voted equally for Republicans and Democrats. Your answer to my question will help prove or disprove the veracity of that statement.
P.S. I'm not afraid to say that my guy is Romney, if he gets on the ballot.
Romney is a flip flopper and
March 20, 2007 - 18:36 ET by blarsenRomney is a flip flopper and a Mormon. The last one won't play in the Bible belt. I'm not ducking anything. You asked and I answered. I'm more than likely to vote for Edwards if it came down to it. There are no true old school republicans left. They've all been forced to extremeism by the likes of the Limbaugh's and Hannitys. If there were a Goldwater republican, I'd vote for him. Everyone of the republicans has way to many skeletons in their closets. BASEBALL CALLS!
No blars...The problem is we
March 20, 2007 - 18:42 ET by bigtimerNo blars...
The problem is we haven't had one that is extreme enough as far as I am concerned.
Thompson/Hunter...or vice versa...or Tancredo too!
Btw...I would vote for Mitt too...before McCain or Giuliani.
There's a difference between flip-flopping and evolving
March 20, 2007 - 18:48 ET by RJThere's a difference, blarsen, between flip-flopping and evolving. Kerry pandered and that's a flip-flop. Reagan moved from Democrat to staunch conservative Republican and that's evolving.
I don't like everything about Romney, but he's convinced me so far that his positions are sincere, and not pandering.
RJ,I am having a huge problem
March 20, 2007 - 18:45 ET by BlondeRJ,
I am having a huge problem with impairment today. Well, people who are impaired.
Listening impaired, reading impaired, and reality impaired.
This just hasn't been my day. Blarsen capped it with the lib dems win.
Plus, I love the lovely "Mormon" comment below. I thought we settled that little bit of ugliness last week.
Hi Blonde
March 20, 2007 - 18:57 ET by RJHi, blonde! Sure it's there, but I don't think the Mormon "issue" will be a problematic as the liberals want it to be. blarsen and his fellow libs want to wound Romney with it because he's a strong, competent contender.
Hey RJ."But he's a Mormo
March 20, 2007 - 19:10 ET by BlondeHey RJ.
"But he's a Mormon" (or words to that effect).
Typical liberal obfuscation. Let them try it. It makes them look as small and petty as they truly are. Mitt's not my guy, I am so hoping Thompson jumps in. If not, I'm turning my TV off, probably until 2012!
BTW, I thought of you this a.m. My lovely RINO Governor (Crist of Fla...for those of you who missed the reference yesterday) was on Fox this a.m. TV was lucky to survive. He's for stem cell research (adult) and admires Ahhhnold on his Global Warming stance. Disgusting! Another wasted vote for the lesser of two weevils (h/t Master & Commander).
Are you ready for this?
March 20, 2007 - 19:41 ET by RJI don't think Thompson will jump in. But here's an idea that would mitigate the "Mormon issue".....are you ready for it?........Romney/Thompson!
RJ...That'll work too! I like
March 20, 2007 - 19:56 ET by bigtimerRJ...
That'll work too!
I like Romney as I stated before...plus that discussion last week was well interesting...until it drug on and on...as usual.
We have a long way to go yet IMO...anything can happen yet!
More Than Just Liberals
March 20, 2007 - 19:32 ET by CGattonI'm afraid the issue of Mitt's religion is not confined to just the liberals...just look around this site for attacks by supposedly correct thinking conservatives. I stated on these boards back in November that the right would have a problem with a Mormon running for president, and exLib stated at the time, "...I would be disappointed with my Christian Brothers and Sisters if they rejected Romney on that [Mormon] basis, since I have studied with Mormons and believe that they understand sin quite well from a Biblical standpoint. On a moral level I think we are on the same page..." Unfortunately, it didn't even take three months before my fears were born out. With respect to Romney, at least, there is a very strong parallel to the Kennedy/Nixon race of 1960, only this time it's both Republicans and Democrats arguing that a man's religion should prevent him from being president.
The really humorous part of this entire discussion is that opponents get their arguments, at best, from rank-and-file Mormons, who typically have no idea of what their church believes on issues facing the country. All too often they believe in the 'Gospel according to the local bishop,' and propagate their, the local bishop's, beliefs as "what the Mormon church teaches and believes."
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Good thoughts, Gatton
March 20, 2007 - 19:45 ET by RJGood thoughts, and I'll just add that there's a lot more time than usual to get the issue out there. He'll have ample opportunity to make people comfortable with him....or to fall on his nose.
Clyde,You may have missed the
March 20, 2007 - 19:52 ET by BlondeClyde,
You may have missed the totally ugly (and creepy, IMO) discussion a week or so back between our very positive conservatives. The continued attacks, bible quotes, and downright nastiness had me totally appalled.
I'll have to take your word on the humorous part of "the discussion" re: Mitt's Mormonism...I'm not a particulary religious person, but I do try to learn about other people's belief systems. Unfortunately, I suspect most people get their idea of Mormon from that idiot HBO show Big Love. Hence the knee jerk and totally stupid reactions.
I hope Mitt Romney stays in long enough to at least educate the idiots. He's an okay guy, but not for me. But of course, at this point, none of the (R) guys are either.
Wish I Had, Blonde
March 20, 2007 - 20:11 ET by CGattonUnfortunately, Blonde, I caught that entire discussion. Because it had so many ramifications into various areas, I decided to stay out of it, in no little part because those involved were closed-mind people. I love good discussion, but I'm not here to throw mud, or make foolish pronouncements.
Essentially Republicans eat their own. As a general rule, Democrats forgive and forget all trangressions by their members/heroes, while they graw relentlessly on the same transgressions performed by Republicans/Conservatives. Republicans, on the other hand, typically go after all transgressors. Unfortunately, that is often taken to the limit of refusing to vote in the final elections if their preferred primary candidate goes down in flames.
The time for dissent and trying to convince the entire Conservative voting public is during the primary season; once a standard bearer has been chosen, we must not take our bat and ball and go home if we didn't hit a home run. Doing so leaves us with our current congress. It's important to remember that things can always get worse, and will if we have a laissez-faire attitude.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Clyde,I have a question for y
March 20, 2007 - 20:26 ET by BlondeClyde,
I have a question for you. Why are you not teaching?
I think everyone tries to "eat their own". To stuff dissent. Persuade everyone of one's aquaintance to believe. The left tries to gobble up the middle....as does the right. We each want it our own way. Unfortunately, we humans are pack animals...and follow the strongest leader.
I am pretty damned conservative. But (oh my, sounding like a liberal here) I try to be tolerant of other's views. To persuade them by sound logic. It mostly doesn't work...but occasionally....
But the thought of not voting, to lodge a "protest"....well, I simply can't wrap my mind around that. Just as I can never wrap my mind about "supporting the troops, while being against the war" (oh yeah...I'm still on a tear about that!).
Actually, as far as the discussion I referenced, I wish you'd hopped in. I'm sure you'd have been able to add some clarity and eliminate some of the absolute venomous and vapid rationales which were posted.
I suspect I've about reached my limits on the idiocy of it all. I may have to turn it off and tune out for a while.
But back to my original sentence....If you taught a class...I'd take it. I like your style, Clyde. Your arguments, and your logic.
I Am a Teacher, Blonde
March 20, 2007 - 20:41 ET by CGattonI'm certified to teach mathematics and physics at the secondary level. But school districts don't want to hire old men, because they won't be around long enough (explain that one to me, by the way!); they don't want to hire ex-military, because they're too hide-bound and believe in order and discipline; and they don't want to hire teachers who have a solid background in practical applications, because they believe in absolutes. And yes, I'm aware that there are initiatives out there that address everyone of my observations. I'm also here to tell you I have heard every one of those comments with respect to my application for teaching positions. The inmates are running the asylums, I'm afraid, and if we all don't work together we'll soon be on the inside looking out.
V/R
Clyde
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Clyde,I've been steaming all
March 20, 2007 - 20:54 ET by BlondeClyde,
I've been steaming all day like an oyster over a slow fire.
But now I am about lose it.
I was going to say I hate science. But I don't. When I had a good teacher, I was fascinated by it. (And I absolutely love all forms of math....but then again, I had good teachers). I'd take physics, just for fun, if I had someone who interested me in the subject. Not that it would do me one iota of good in my professional life, but I just really like to understand the world around me. (I actually tried to explain some basic Chem 101 to a friend at lunch a few weeks ago...it was kind of funny...but I got it right!).
Well, I suspect you need to leave Greta Van Sustryn land and come to the enlightened State of Florida (okay, don't shoot me for that remark!).
We are slowly becoming Rome.
The inmates are running the asylum, indeed.
But My House Is Paid For, Blonde
March 20, 2007 - 21:10 ET by CGattonIf it weren't for the fact that my home is totally paid for, and I couldn't buy anything that would hold my library with what I could get for my current house, my wife and I would have already headed for the south, though probably Arizona way, since I have a sister who lives there.
When the slow steam threatens, I find a good book, must be fictional, helps a lot. If you haven't read Micheal Crichton's State of Fear yet, give it a shot. And at risk of being flamed to high heaven, I will also mention that a couple of hours fighting make-believe enemies in World of Warcraft is a great stress reliever.
By the way, MrBishop gets his cable hooked up tomorrow in his new abode, and I told him tonight you were asking about his absence.
"...the aspirants to tyranny are either the...men of the state, who in democracies are demagogues,... or those who hold great offices, and have a long tenure.." - Aristotle, Politics, c350BC
Clyde,I know what you mean ab
March 20, 2007 - 21:30 ET by BlondeClyde,
I know what you mean about the "paid for house". Mine is in south Florida. Idiot place, but that's where I live. For now. BTW, "library" is a bad word in my house just now....most of it is in boxes under my bed...and the rest in storage. So my weekly expenditure on books just keeps going up and up. (Okay, I don't have time to hit the library....plus I hate dirty books with other people's smudgy food bits and dirty fingerprints).
I just find it to be a totally silly state of affairs that someone with your credentials isn't teaching.
I'd go to a lecture of yours, anytime.
I said it earlier. I'll say it again.
Rome.
Aquifers have been built. Barbarians at the gate. The rest is downhill from here. Unless we get smart, fast (which I doubt).
He's another old fart like me
March 20, 2007 - 20:48 ET by NL207He's another old fart like me, Blonde, so you'd best watch out!
Yeah, NL.You smart "old&
March 20, 2007 - 20:59 ET by BlondeYeah, NL.
You smart "old" guys scare me to death!
Physics, philosophy, mathematics, sociology, politics, data.
Nice conversations. With you scary guys. :)
I'd say the republicans are
March 20, 2007 - 18:17 ET by BlameTheMediaI'd say the republicans are looking much better, though. The dems are having some serious personality problems.
Too funny! First of all, the
March 20, 2007 - 20:17 ET by Del DolemonteToo funny! First of all, the rationale Bush used to initiate the Iraq War was that they had violated numerous UN Resolutions. As for WMDs, in 1998 all of the Democrats, President Clinton included (along with Gore and Kerry) agreed with him, and Mrs. Clinton justified her vote in favor of the Iraq Resolution before we went to war on her private research with intelligence officials in her husband's Administration.
As for New Orleans, it's always the primary responsibility of the local governments-local and state-to be the first responders. FEMA has always told state and local governments that they cannot expect any help from FEMA for at least 72 hours after a major natural disaster. Despite this, the US Coast Guard and others managed to rescue at least 10,000 New Orleans residents within the 72 hours before FEMA was even supposed to be there.
You also obviously missed the news that Louisiana Governor "Mee-Maw" Blanco has just announced she's not running for re-election. She was the one who screwed up, not Bush. And she just admitted it.
As for your cheap shot at Bush being a "C- student", please enlighten us as to why John Kerry had a lower grade point average than he did.
How'd you like that video of Edwards, Blarsen?
March 20, 2007 - 17:06 ET by RJblarsen, you really want to compare Guliani in drag for a gag vs. Edwards prissy primping for real? hahaha
Thanks, RJ, that's my line. HAHAHAHAH giggle, snigger.
March 20, 2007 - 17:09 ET by acaiguanaThanks, RJ, that's my line. HAHAHAHAH giggle, snigger.
It's a blarson special.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
Here's Jacks version of Edwar
March 20, 2007 - 17:13 ET by bigtimerHere's Jacks version of Edwards blars...go to it...it is hilarious!
Bust out have some fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE-8csu7-bk
This silly Silk Pony Breck-
March 20, 2007 - 16:43 ET by daveinbocaThis silly Silk Pony Breck-boy is sinking like a rock in South Carolina, his birthstate. He is insufferably stupid and simply not ready for prime time.
George Bush looks like a monk
March 20, 2007 - 16:49 ET by blarsenGeorge Bush looks like a monkey!! Nyah, nyah, nyah! So there!!!
BAD BUSH! NO BANANA!
Sorry, blarsen, Bush is still the President of the United States
March 20, 2007 - 16:55 ET by acaiguanaSorry, blarsen, Bush is still the President of the United States.
Nyah, nyah, nyah! So there!!!
Stupid is as stupid writes.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
That should be stupid is as s
March 20, 2007 - 17:03 ET by blarsenThat should be stupid is as stupid governs the United States and makes us look like a bunch of war mongering hicks to the rest of the Free World.
Yeah, blarson, that's what makes me tick. How I look to idiots.
March 20, 2007 - 17:07 ET by acaiguanaYeah, blarson, that's what makes me tick. How I look to idiots.
Got any other cute ways to demean the 3,000 dead on 9/11/01?
Or was that your best shot?
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
demeaning?
March 20, 2007 - 17:27 ET by BlameTheMediaDon't confuse disliking the policies of our administration with supporting the troops. These are two very different things. I can disagree with the president's policies on foreign affairs, i.e. invading soveriegn nations, and still support our troops, which I do. It is called thinking for ones self and not sheepishly going along and believing EVERYTHING our government tells us. That looks more like tyrrany than democracy to me. Giving any goverment, dem or repub, a blank check and not questioning them is exactly how countries that are not free work. I can disagree with the war, and admire president bush's domestic policies. This is because I can think for myself, separate out personality from propaganda, and make informed decisions. Nothing is so absolute. And disagreeing with the war in Iraq and how we got into it does not demean the dead. In fact, it is in their honor that people question our government. No one wants to see any soldier die in vein. And no one in government is above the law. (Except president bush and karl rove)
So sorry, but you can't "
March 20, 2007 - 19:50 ET by Del DolemonteSo sorry, but you can't "support the troops" without supporting their commanders-and Bush is the Commander in Chief.
And you can't "support the troops" without supporting their mission, as the two are inseperable.
Hey Ac, Show me how smart
March 20, 2007 - 17:28 ET by blarsenHey Ac,
Show me how smart you are by telling me how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi.
blarsen, I don't have intellectual duals with unarmed people.
March 20, 2007 - 17:33 ET by acaiguanablarsen, I don't have intellectual duals with unarmed people.
I do, however, encourage them to seek help. The medications availabe for paranoia and for BDS are pretty good these days, I'm told. Less side effects and more happiness.
One side effect is that you start rooting for your country, rather than running it down and buying into defeat. That would probably be 'off-putting' for you.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
ACA
March 20, 2007 - 17:36 ET by BlameTheMediaACA, you could just answer the question instead of using diversionary tactics and put downs. See, you know the answer, you just know it will help the other person's argument so you choose not to answer. You have no answer that supports your theory, so you divert. Clever, but overused here.
Well, yeah, blamethemedia, I do have an answer. Here it is.
March 20, 2007 - 17:38 ET by acaiguanaWell, yeah, blamethemedia, I do have an answer. Here it is.
Saddam sent $250K to the families of the Hijackers. That's $25K each.
It was a gift for their giving so much for the cause.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
Based on that we should inv
March 20, 2007 - 17:46 ET by BlameTheMediaBased on that we should invade him? Don't you think Suadi Arabia would have been a more direct target since most of them came from there? Instead of this after-the-fact here's-a-check thing. By the way, I'd like to see something credible that backs up your statement about the money Saddam sent. If it exsists.
No, silly blamethemedia, we invaded Iraq for these reasons.
March 20, 2007 - 17:57 ET by acaiguanaNo, silly blamethemedia, we invaded Iraq for these reasons.
1. Violation of over 19 UN resolutions.
2. Violation of the no-fire zones by firing on coalition (read UN) air forces.
3. Slaughtering the Kurds with WMDs, another violation of the terms of surrender he agreed to follow.
4. Finally...
Ta Ta...
Their publicly declared intent to build a bomb. When they invaded Kuwait (remember Kuwait?) they were showing overt intent to dominate the Middle East.
This made Iraq a threat to the entire region.
Now, if you hate Israel and want it destroyed, we should never have rescued Kuwait. Where do you stand on that war?
And where do you stand on the WOT? Do you really think Iraq is immaterial to that war? Or am I reading you wrong?
I could be stupid, but I'm slow here. I'm hearing you defend Saddam Hussein, right?
You must have bought into the ownership of defeat here. What are you going to do when we achieve victory?
9/11/01.
So, what would you do? Cut and run?
Ok...
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
then why didn't they just s
March 20, 2007 - 18:27 ET by BlameTheMediathen why didn't they just say that
but don't you think saudi a
March 20, 2007 - 19:18 ET by BlameTheMediabut don't you think saudi arabia would have been a more logical target since most of the terrorists came from there?
This makes no sense. Its a
March 21, 2007 - 10:34 ET by NL207This makes no sense. Its a standard lib anti-war talking point that completely ignores reality.
Saudi Arabia opposes Al Qaeda. To be a member of AQ in Saudi Arabia is to be a wanted man.
The 9-11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia were acting without the sanction of their government. They were acting alone and in concert with AQ and the Taliban. Had any of them survived, they would have become fugitives from the Saudi government probably with a price on their heads and under a sentence of death.
Saudi Arabia is a huge investor in western business ventures. And they are a wise and responsible investor. They usually give the businesses they own large shares in a great deal of leeway to find a profit. This is good for both business and the labor that it supports. This is good for everbody, the Saudis included.
Last, Saudi Arabia controls a huge supply of oil which they are willing to freely sell at market rates to whomever wishes to buy it. We have not had any silly embargo nonsense out of them since the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. This is a satisfactory situation from our perspective [and most everybody else's as well]. Invading the country would put all that at risk and to no purpose. The Saudi Monarchy is already opposed to the terrorists.
BlameTheMedia
March 20, 2007 - 18:54 ET by SportPoliticsBlameTheMedia, the 911 report states that Saddam and Bin Laden had a pact - that they wouldn't attack eachother. Then they had according to slick willie and his 8 year crew - SCIENTIST DEALS - whereby Saddam's sanctioned scientists would travel to certain nations and cooperate with Al Qaeda. Try Khartoum, Sudan for instance, where slick willie was so absolutely convinced of it he unleashed the cruise missiles.
I guess you libs will try to go to any lengths to pretend slick willies 8 years never happened. Am I to believe the republicans now,that in the above case when slick willie was unleashing the awesome deadly might of the USA cruise missiles, that he was simply "wagging the dog" - while recklessly murdering innocents for merely his own personal protection ?
Well, that's what your lies demand I believe. That's why I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.
sport
March 20, 2007 - 19:10 ET by BlameTheMediasport, do you support and defend, 100%, everything gwb has said and done? this is a yes or no question.
then why didn't someone in
March 20, 2007 - 19:13 ET by BlameTheMediathen why didn't someone in the administration just say that before we went to war. i think bush needs better communication skills. their story is always changing.
Zero
March 20, 2007 - 17:52 ET by BlameTheMediaACA, zero was the actual answer blarsen's question.
blarsen's question is the same as 'what cost'?
March 20, 2007 - 17:59 ET by acaiguanablarsen's question is the same as 'what cost'?
Inane, irrelevant and stupid. But whoever said stupid questions did not exist did not have to deal with blarsen.
And as for you --- zero is the answer to myopic people with no respect for the dangers of Saddam Hussein and Iraq. Did you ever in your life meet a Kuwaiti?
Um...
I don't think so.
ACA
...
Quoted from: 'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)
ooo! ooo! ooo! I know!
March 20, 2007 - 17:33 ET by BlameTheMediaooo! ooo! ooo! I know! I know! I know the answer to this one.
pick me
pick me
blarsen
March 20, 2007 - 18:47 ET by SportPoliticsTell me about the bomb builder of the Feb. 1993 WTC bombing. When he fled back to Iraq with his Republican Guard tattoo - and Saddam and sons welcomed him home, gave him a lifetime salary and a fancy palace room - was that linkage ?
How about that blarsen ? Is "Clinton history" off limits here as well ? Is that why you libs are blind - because you banned slick willie the criminal time from your mental history banks ?
SADDAM'S republican guard with RG tat- flees back to Bagdad after bombing the WTC....
But, you libs expect me to believe there is no connection....
LOL - sure.
Try this on for size in your tiny little brain: Before the massive shock and awe slamming of Iraq's dictator regime - with all the power and might of the USA- it's satellites- it's CIA minions and spies and intelligence agents like Valerie Plame and all the rest - IT COULD NOT FIND SADDAM IN HIS OWN COUNTRY OF IRAQ- EVEN AS IT DESPERATELY FOCUSED ALL FORCES IN A RABID SEARCH - IT LAYED DOWN CRUISE MISSILE STRIKES AND MISSED HIM ENTIRELY.
In other words beanbrain - the idea that the USA had any clue if Saddam was or was not colluding with Al Qaeda is LAUGHABLE, since even in it's most dire moment - it couldn't give you the answer to where Saddam himself even was- as it tried it's very best. Now however,liberals and their egotistically deranged moronic friends and knowledge supreme wannabe spokespersons who "have thoroughly investigated the cobwebbed past" - make ridiculous declarations that Saddam and AQ were not cooperating.
Yes, we have a whole lot of experts that know absolutely ZERO - and when evidence presents itself contrary to what they WANT to believe - they spend literally YEARS trying to get to the answer that makes them "feel safe".
Once again, the Iraqi republican guard fled to Bagdad and was happily welcomed after he bombed the WTC under slick willies watch.
Well, there was this thing called a war that had just occured between Saddam and the USA - and Saddam has been PROVEN to have supported terror bombings - with PAYMENTS - large checks ...
Now - WHINE all you want - but you CANNOT disprove in my mind the absolutely OBVIOUS.
sport, where can I find the
March 20, 2007 - 19:16 ET by BlameTheMediasport, where can I find the proof about the payments? I'd like to see it. for the record, you are the 2nd person i've asked. the first had nothing.
btm,Israeli's boarded a ship tha
March 20, 2007 - 19:21 ET by bigtimerbtm,
Israeli's boarded a ship that had all kinds of documents with proof that they confiscated on it...they showed them all over the media...
Use google...I don't feel like it tonight.
You look.
There may be some confusion.
March 20, 2007 - 20:49 ET by dahliatraversThere may be some confusion. I found numerous references to Saddam Hussein paying the families of Palestinian suicide bombers; nothing about his paying the families of the 9/11 hijackers. Not sure this question adds much one way or the other to how much of a threat he was and whether a regime change was needed.
LOL. Show me how smart YOU ar
March 20, 2007 - 19:55 ET by Del DolemonteLOL. Show me how smart YOU are, by explaining why Bill Clinton's own Justice Department, in its 1998 indictment of bin Laden, said bin Laden and Iraq in fact had a working relationship?
What the rest of the world th
March 20, 2007 - 17:09 ET by bassndudeWhat the rest of the world thinks? Who the blazes cares what the world thinks? I want the world to know we will invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them all to Christians if they mess with us. Even from a distance.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Sounds a lot like how the r
March 20, 2007 - 18:22 ET by BlameTheMediaSounds a lot like how the radical islamic jihadists think. curious. Are you really a terrorist? fess up bass. no democracy loving american would dare speak with such totalitarian views.
And the little lyin' JE wil
March 20, 2007 - 17:04 ET by daveinbocaAnd the little lyin' JE will never be prez, seein' as he's sinking in the polls in his birth state of South Carolina. I'm sure Obama and Hillarious will outpoll him next Jan in the Palmetto State, and he can go back to his 28000 sq ft hovel and wait the call to be VP. But I think it will be Richardson, or some actual heavy lifter instead of this featherweight pretty-boy. He's already punching way above his weight.
The funnest part of all this
March 20, 2007 - 19:04 ET by Lancasters Saved UsThe funnest part of all this is to picture Big Shots like Edwards, Streisand, Redford scared to get on that helicopter, turn on the chandelier, Fly to that exotic island, because the press is somewhat hungry on pointing out the fun we can have by seeing their hipocrisy. This could become as popular as Survivor if MSM gets smart and thinks of the bottom line. 28,000 sq feet have never been so miserable to wander around in.
Silly Argument
March 20, 2007 - 19:08 ET by ChumlyThis is a silly argument people. Think about it. You are discussing the individual energy consumption of one rich individual.
Think back about who you voted into the White House. This administration has had a much, much bigger impact to our energy consumption and the environment than a few rich individuals possibly could.
By the way, According to climate scientists the earth has just experienced the WARMEST WINTER since records have been kept...
http://www.sfgate.co...
No, we are discussing the ene
March 20, 2007 - 20:02 ET by Del DolemonteNo, we are discussing the energy consumption of a very rich individual who is demanding that people less rich than himself try to save energy. Pay attention.
As for Bush, read another post on this thread about his energy-efficient house in Texas, and compare that to Gore's house and Edwards'
Oh, another obtuse person.
March 21, 2007 - 08:10 ET by dscottOh, another obtuse person. You chose not to see that Al Gore and John Edwards consumption is typical of the rich. You do the math for yourself, 5% of the population (15 million people) owns 70% of the personal wealth of the country. That leaves us the 95% (285 million people) to own 30% of the personal wealth. Gore and Edwards are typical of the 5%. If Gore uses 20 times the electricity of the average household it becomes glaringly obvious who uses most of the electricity in residential use. Gore uses less energy than Edwards based on elementry physics, 10k sq ft versus 28k sq ft.
Come on Chumly, I know you can use a calculator. Multiply 15 million by 20, you get 300 million. You know very well the implication of this. So you explain to me why 285 million people should be made to sacrifice with higher taxes when all it takes is 15 million people to cut back their energy demands to the consumption level of the rest of us? In fact, I'm not even requiring them to use less energy, all they have to do is get off the electric grid. Are you going to argue that people of means such as Al Gore and John Edwards can't buy solar panels and wind turbines? Why should we the 285 million people pay for the ravenous energy consumption of 15 million people? Explain to me how this is fair?? Explain to me why the 285 million of the poor and middle class should pay for the lifestyles of 15 million rich people?
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius