Gabler: Don't Legitimize Fox News

Photo of Mark Finkelstein.

Would you take a paycheck from an organization you consider illegitimate? Neal Gabler apparently would.

"I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me my Kool-Aid," claimed Gabler on this evening's "Fox News Watch." He then proceeded to do just that, claiming that Democrats pulled out of the Fox-sponsored presidential candidate debate in Nevada "for the same reason that Republicans would not go on Air America -- it doesn't make any political sense. Why in the world would you want to legitimize a network that spends hour after hour after hour after hour to, to."

View video here

Interjected host Eric Burns: "why would you agree to do it in the first place?"

GABLER: "They made a mistake. I think they made a mistake."

Gabler went so far as to accuse Burns of exemplifying FNC's bias: "Even in the intro to this, you called the left-wing bloggers not just left-wing bloggers, you said 'extreme, extreme left-wing bloggers'."

BURNS: "I said one 'extreme.'"

GABLER: "No, you said two. That's the kind of thing that Democrats don't want to legitimize. They're going to get bashed [by Fox News] from here to eternity."

For the record, Eric was right, Neal was wrong. It was one "extreme." Video here.

For Gabler to suggest that the manifestly moderate Burns is some kind of conservative hit man is patently absurd. For example, not long ago, as I documented here, Eric put himself to the left of even liberal panelist Jane Hall, criticizing US Airways for "intolerance" for removing from a flight those six Muslim imams who had made passengers uncomfortable with their actions.

In depicting Fox News as a right-wing bash machine that feeds "Kool-Aid," and accusing his host of typifying the bias, Gabler wasn't merely describing the Dem view of Fox as illegitimate -- he was embracing it. How could a self-respecting person continue to work for such an outfit?

Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


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Gabler

Enough already!  I know FNC wants to tell both sides, but it's really time for them to give this jerk his walking papers.  He insults the audience weekly, now the network.   Don't they know they are at war with this leftist and his agenda?

He's harmless. His being on t

He's harmless. His being on the show is also part of Faux News' master plan, which is to give people like him a venue to show how out of touch with reality they really are.

FNC's credibility takes a rea

FNC's credibility takes a real hit with ambulance chasers like Greta and Gueraldo Rivera. First it was the Nataly Holloway channel. Next it became the Duke Lacrosse channel. Now it's the Anna Nicole Smith channel.

Sure people watch; the same people who read National Inquirer.

Better to Keep Him

Like you, my first thought was get rid of him. But, on second thought, keep him as long as he wants to stay there so that he can continue to show what a fool he is as he suffers with his BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome), CDS (Cheney...), RDS, (Republican..) and whatever other derangement syndromes take him over.

Just my $0.02

Gabler doesn't think Fox News

Gabler doesn't think Fox News is legitimate. Gabler is on Fox News. Therefore . . . . .

Face it Gabler is probably too out of touch to realize he insulted himself.

You say that as though Faux N

You say that as though Faux Noise cares about being a legitimate news source. It's a propaganda channel, and everyone there knows it.

CNN Doesn't care about being legitimate

CNN is legitmate only because it had a monopoly for awhile.

CNN doesn't care about being a respected or legitimate news source since it kept Saddam Hussein's atrocities un-reported when he was in power for fear of loosing access.

Fox can't touch that kind of audacity. Yet the world hardly heard a peep about it, unless you listened to Fox!

You only wish you were a co

You only wish you were a conservative joe.

Just by you saying that proves just how far left you are. Most of us conservatives think Fox is too far to the left for our taste, but admit that it's closer to the center than any other news outfit. That being said, Fox (along with so many other stations) continues the charade of the Valarie Plame non-story and won't dig deep to show that she is lying. They're not far enough right for most conservatives.

Joe, you need to change your last name to Stalin.

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

That's weird. As soon as yo

That's weird. As soon as you log in, it filters out Joe Conservative's post.

Anyways, the only reason why he named himself that is to get Sheffield to approve him.

LOL! I hate to break this to

LOL! I hate to break this to you, Joey, but if you bothered to visit the "Faux News" website, you'd find that they get most of their news from the Associated Press. By your "logic", then, AP is propaganda as well.

But your real problem is that unlike "Faux News", CNN has actually been discredited by several MAJOR journalistic scandals.

1. "Tailwind" in 1998

2. CNN Baghdad Bureau-CNN ignores and never reports atrocities by Saddam Hussein against his own people-just so they could keep their Baghdad Bureau open.

3. 2005: CNN head man Eason Jordan resigns in disgrace after falsely accusing US troops of "murdering" journalists in Iraq

4. 2005: CNN flashes a large black "X" over Vice President Dick Cheney's face during live coverage of a speech he was giving. CNN later fires a CNN switchboard operator after said operator said that the act was intentional and was in fact an example of "free speech".

5. 2006: CNN is temporarily banned from Iraq after mistranslating a speech by Iran's President.

6. 2006: CNN broadcasts videos of Iraqi insurgent snipers targeting and killing US soldiers, thus acting as a propaganda outlet for said insurgents.

Can you give us CREDIBLE examples of "Faux News" committing such blatant examples of propaganda? I'll be here waiting.

PS, my source for the above examples wasn't some right wing site, but Wikipedia. Sorry to disappoint you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies

Can you give us CREDIBLE exa

Can you give us CREDIBLE examples of "Faux News" committing such blatant examples of propaganda?

They were on the air today, right? ;-)

So was CNN

Your admission that you can't come up with similar examples is duly noted.

It's called a "joke." Hence t

It's called a "joke." Hence the winking smiley face.

Sorry about that, I mixed up

Sorry about that, I mixed up replies. I am on a dialup and NB fades in and out sometimes...

I thought what you said back was funny Del Monte

I thought what you said back to Balboa was funny Del Monte. True, too. Balboa lives on the smart *** principle.

Here; Air America was so much like Balboa, it's mostly off the air. ;-)

( It was a joke, hence the smiley face. Now Balboa can be sorry. )

 Gabler thinks he is on Air America, the way he acts.

Sorry about that, I mixed up

Sorry about that, I mixed up replies. I am on a dialup and NB fades in and out sometimes...

Too bad Del Monte

Too bad Del Monte, those precious bytes got wasted loading babbleboa. ;-)

Wow, good list, Del.  Reveal

Wow, good list, Del.  Revealing.

Wow. Did you sit in front of

Wow. Did you sit in front of your computer all day long today to come up with that gem of a post?

No talking points emailed to you from the Mother Ship today?

Hey my main Shrubbster -- N

Hey my main Shrubbster -- NB really needs a weird letter verification system for posting.

That post is clearly a spambot of cut up random phrases, reassembled, and posted automatically.

A technique first used, I believe by Alan Ginsburg, Beat Poet Laurette to the Beat Genration of lefties in beards and berets.

The answer is socialism. But only if the question is:

"What's the fastest way to impoverish, enslave and destroy people?"

Well, since Jozef had a &quo

Well, since Jozef had a "Random Communist Proclamation Generator", I am sure that there are other things like that floating around.

Your hatred for anyone not a

Your hatred for anyone not a Socialist like you is showing again.

You simply cannot tolerate conservative viewpoints being aired or given a legitimate hearing anywhere, because when they are presented it exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of your own beliefs.  Therefore, rather than deal with the existence of Fox News, you desperately want to shut them up.

Besides, I cannot understand this overwhelming, intense, palpable, irrational FEAR that Leftist have of a news channel that might, on a busy news day, reach a million people in a nation with 300 million people.  They have the exact same flaws as other media outlets (the sensationalizing of crime stories that 20 years ago would have only been something for local affiliates, for one example; the refusal to cover international events, for another), after all.

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

Irony Blind

Fox network is the highest rated cable channel.
Air America can't attract a virus.
Equating the two is simply prejudice in search of an excuse.

CNN and Peter Arnett nuff sai

CNN and Peter Arnett nuff said:) NBC Dateline and exploding cars (1990) Nuff Said:)  So Joe tell when and where Fox News had to retract a story because it puposedly constructed false stories? Face it Joe Stalin if you had your way there would be conservative media. You would shut down Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Newbusters and every other conservative media outlet because Joe you are too scared too allow other viewpoints other than liberal viewpoints. Liberal version of free speech. Everyone is allowed to speak freely except those that disagree with liberalism

The only "smoking gun&qu

The only "smoking gun" I can find against "Faux News" is that they reprimanded their Washington reporter Carl Cameron for making up some stuff about Jean Carry (who served in Vietnam, by the way) during the 2004 campaign. Apparently he had never intended for this to get out, as it was an internal joke, but it somehow made it onto their website. It's inexcusable, but it pales in comparison to CNN's journalistic corruption.

Absolutely correct-comparing

Absolutely correct-comparing  Air America to "Faux News" in terms of ratings is like comparing a weather balloon to the Goodyear blimp.

By the way, the latest on the Air America front is that they just lost their affiliate in Bubba land, namely Little Rock Arkansas. They are also losing the affiliate in ABQ, New Mexico, if I'm not mistaken.

Could the problems AA is havi

Could the problems AA is having be due to the media field already being saturated with liberal outlets thus there are not enough sponges to keep another one afloat?  Or does liberal radio tend to require thought to 'see' what they are saying and the image based media are better able to fire up the emotion that liberals thrive on?

Not the best analogy.  Even

Not the best analogy.  Even a weather balloon has a good use.

Very few take Gabler seriou

Very few take Gabler seriously. Statistics show that small, rotund men in beards are simply not listened to or trusted by most people.

However...

"I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me my Kool-Aid,"

Kool Aid. Kool Aid??? Can we please have a moratorium on the use of this totally banal, over-used frackin' cliche that's way up there with "truth to power".

Another hack phrase used all the time by Hack Gabler.

And that includes from Bill O'Reilly too.

The answer is socialism. But only if the question is:

"What's the fastest way to impoverish, enslave and destroy people?"

Hey back off Jack. I take G

Hey back off Jack. I take Gabler's beard very seriously. and by the way whats wrong with kool aid, Invented (sorta) in Hastings Nebraska---oh ya, well whats wrong with Hastings Nebraska.

(There is madness in every answer) Tantalus the Insane. Purchase the Tantalus Cannibal burger
made from the choice parts of real Peta members.
The “Other” Meat.

sorry tantalus -- but who a

sorry tantalus -- but who am I to argue with statistics?

It's also a consensus!

The answer is socialism. But only if the question is:

"What's the fastest way to impoverish, enslave and destroy people?"

Actually. there are several r

Actually. there are several rotund men with beards who can be trusted, such as New Orleans chef Paul Prudhomme, New Orleans pianist Dr. John, and 1960s pop music man Mitch Miller.

PS, Tantalus-what's the sourc

PS, Tantalus-what's the source of your user name? Greek mythology, or the mountain behind Honolulu?

My parents were not gods as

My parents were not gods as you might think. I have never been to Honolulu, but I like to think I did.

(There is madness in every answer) The flying Imam: Tantalus the Insane

Despite the fact that the mai

Despite the fact that the main Hawaiian island of Oahu (where I lived for several years in the 1960s, before it got ruined by ultra-liberal politics) is now a hellhole due to nearly 50 conescutive years of Democrat Party rule, it still has its charms, one of which is taking a horseless carriage up Round Top Drive, which is on Mt. Tantalus. It's the best view of Honolulu on the island and it's free! 

Del: Firstly; I can see you

Del: Firstly; I can see you may need to be re-educated about the people’s paradise that you refer to as a hellhole. Liberals have your best interests at heart and I think you are pretending to be angry. Secondly; I am not (let me repeat myself) I am not a mountain! Although it is true that I have eaten parts of a headless horse. What the hell does that have to do with the price of Macadamia nuts!

The flying Imam

Tantalus the Insane. (There is madness in every answer)

Yes, dear.

Yes, dear.

What a dumb arse!  Saying th

What a dumb arse!  Saying the company you work for isn't legitimate?  For fun, let's go with Neal being correct.......

Alrighty then Neally boy, a news agency that isn't legit is one thing, but doesn't that make you a complete dumb arse to work for them KNOWING they're not legit?

Neal, has anyone mistakenly taken you for a Mensa member?  No?  I didn't think so.

Our First Amendment is in its final days

A constitutional historian who had just awoken from a 30-year sleep, would be astonished at the erosion of our First Amendment that has occurred and steadily continues day after day. It has been so slow and steady that few seem to have noticed the long-term "Big Picture" change. It is a truly a "Death by a Thousand Cuts". From the, sure to be made into law in 2009, Fairness Doctrine that will end all political Talk Radio, to constant everyday examples of "Political Correctness" such as the high school in Illinois this week that had students sign papers they would not tell their parents they were being taught about the positive aspects of homosexuality to Barack Obama saying "I would have preferred if Sam Fox admitted it was a mistake to contribute to the Swift Boat group" concerning the well qualified nominee to become ambassador to Belgium (Sam Fox) that will probably now be blocked by John Kerry to it now, in effect, is a criminal offense to be a Republican in Washington with a poor memory (Scooter Libby recent travesty of justice).

Republicans have never "gotten it" and it will soon be their demise and the demise of our Right of Free Speech. Liberals/Democrats play to win and consider politics to be a blood sport. "The end justifies the means" to them but not to polite and ethical Republicans. They will lose our country for us but will do it with dignity! To them, "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game". Disagree? Ruth Bader Ginsburg 96 to 3. Would you like another 5,000 examples?

By 2010, Fox News as it is today will be gone as well as Talk Radio. We'll all be back to 1978 when we each wondered every single day "am I the only sane person left in this country?". Except, speak up and, this time, you'll soon be sharing space with Scooter Libby and many others they'll have behind bars for "crimes against the people". Gabler will be running "The New Fox News" so why wouldn't he stay around? He's just waiting for the keys.

very well said except that I

very well said except that I beleive, much in the fashion of the nutroots, a truly ultra conservative groundswell will germinate. That said, I've noted two instances; one from Hillary and one blog touting the criminalization of republicans and the right.

watch for this to happen more and more.

I want to say once more that in Canada, Al Jazera was given a broadcast licence BEFORE Fox News. Much like WHCA, it's who RUNS the media.

Exactly right, wOtm!  Free s

Exactly right, wOtm!  Free speech to Gabler and his left wing friends, is only letting their own views be heard.   They are spoiled by years of monopolizing the MSM.  It amazes me how many of these liberals spout the "Fox is right wing" mantra while the Fox News network is giving them a platform.  They don't want their opponents the opposite chair.  They expect the ONLY chair.  This happens so often, it is laughable.  Time after time Neal's pals say this while on a Fox broadcast. 

How often does Air America give the opposition a fair hearing?  Apparently liberals live in an alternate universe of their own wishful thinking if they don't notice the balance.

Nah. I can definitely feel t

Nah. I can definitely feel the bias over at FOX. I try to look at it as a vialble news source, but it's biased. Always has been, always will be. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Fox may seem biased only when

Fox may seem biased only when one listens to CCCN, CBS, etc. It really is more in touch with the basics of the U.S. Journalists have long been much more left than the principles of this country.

Gabler is a typical liberal. Rails against "The Man", but doesn't have the integrity to walk away from a paycheck.

Individual liberty is directly proportional to individual responsibliity.

Is that you, Costanza? Are th

Is that you, Costanza? Are the NY Yankees gonna wear cotton uniforms again this season?

Welcome to Re-Education 101. Pay attention, as there will be a quiz later.

1. Try going to the "Faux News" website, and you'll find that they get most of their news stories from Associated Press, just like almost everyone else.

2. "Faux News" does have actual "reporters", probably about as many as CNN does (see below). But just like everyone else, most of the on-air people they hire are not to report but to read the news (which mostly comes from Associated Press, see #1 above).

And in several cases, the people they have hired not only to read the news but to host shows have come over from CNN.  The last hour of their 3-hour prime time is the lady lawyer who used to be on CNN, their morning version of the Today Show is hosted by ex-CNN anchor Gretchen Carlson (a former Miss America, which I am sure CNN took under advisement) and there are a couple of others.

3. If you look Fox's "real reporters", as opposed to their newsreaders or their discussion show hosts (the latter category includes O'Reilly as well as Calamity and Stones) they are not exactly Bible-thumping evangelists.

I'm talking of course about Hairaldo Rivera and Shepard Smith, both of whom are *not* exactly conservative. Ollie North as a reporter doesn't count these days, as he has more or less been reduced to doing nostalgia war shows. 

On the other hand, CNN's "star reporter", Christiane Amanpour, married a Clinton Administration official in 1998 (the spokesman for the US State Department, no less!) but she continued reporting to the sheeple...including during Clinton's War of Choice in Kosovo... without any claims of pro-Clinton bias from Clinton supporters, or anyone else for that matter.

4. CNN also recently announced that they were hiring a public opinion polling firm run by a major Clinton disciple to do their political polling in the run-up to the 2008 Coronation of Queen Hillary.

Lol one of the best onl

Lol one of the best online ass kickings replies time. Del Dolemente That was just awesome

I wonder how history would ha

I wonder how history would have evolved if what we are using now to communicate had been available back in the 1980s-90s.

My guess is that if the net blog/usenet/chat room etc protocol had been in place in earlier elections, Ford may have won in 1976, and (gulp!) Dukakis in 1988.

Fox News reports the facts. A

Fox News reports the facts. And they report the news -- all the news. And they have opinion shows, where they invite conservatives and liberals.

This does not make them conservative. However, conservatives do like facts, all the news, and both sides of the argument. Liberals hate this -- they would much rather control the news, suppress one side of the argument, and be very lose with the facts. So the fact that conservatives are drawn more to Fox News than liberals is natural -- but it doesn't make Fox News conservative.

Well if Senator Charles Sch

Well if Senator Charles Schumer were blogging here, I'm sure he would ask Fox News Channel to step down.

Actually, Chuckie! is one of

Actually, Chuckie! is one of the few Democrats who appears on "Faux News". He's been on O'Reilly from time to time.

I'm sure you're right. But, h

I'm sure you're right. But, he wouldn't dare. Blogging here means that you not only have to show up with your arguments well in hand, but that you also have to answer questions from people with real pieces of data and information. Chuckie is not able to do that.

Remember how he was torn to shreds by Don Imus? He was backtracking as fast as if he had dropped a bankroll down the street. Chuckie can't take it, any more than a lot of the Dims (Hillarity is one, for example).

Chuckie is only good if he has a camera in front of him, and he's asked to make a quote. No questions, please.

I think FOX should go on with

I think FOX should go on with the Democrat debate.

They could put cardboard cutouts of Hillary, Edwards, etc. in chairs.

Borrow Stephen Colbert from the Comedy Channel to ask the questions.

That way they can’t say FOX is being bias.

Ha, ha. The image in my mind

Ha, ha. The image in my mind is priceless. Plus the ratings would be higher. They could use PeeWee Herman and others like him to do the sound bites. I can hear it now "I know you are but what am I?"

"The Stones, I love the Stones. I watch them whenever I can. Fred, Barney..."
Steven Wright

It would not be right to say

It would not be right to say that Fox only attracts conservatives, or the right, since we have many republicans who are not really either. And, if you look at the percentage of audience watching Fox vs CNN, you will see the split along party lines, and since Fox's audience is larger than CNN's audience, you can conclude that more liberals watch Fox than watch CNN.

And the fact of the matter is, Liberals continually spout about how reality is liberally biased... however, just saying so does not make it so. Reality is that nothing in Liberalism has ever worked for long... and the longer they try and make it work, the worse things get.

____________________________________________________

"We can only reason from what is; we can reason on actualities, but not on possibilities." ~ Thomas Paine

Gabler

Well, if this wasn't the straw that finally broke Ailes' back, then Ailes isn't the man I thought he was.

Gabler should be told to pick up his paycheck at the unemployment office.

I hope they keep NG. Each

I hope they keep NG. Each time he opens his pie-hole he helps the conservative cause. We need more "forward thinkers" like Neal Gabler, Ellis Henickan, et al. The more the merrier, I say.

Fox legitimizes Gabler

Fox News does more to legitimize Gabler by giving him a forum.  Were it not for News Watch, I'd never have heard of Gabler anywhere.

Fox doesn't legitimize Gabler

Fox doesn't legitimize Gabler - Fox itself is not legitimate.  Gabler does more to legitimize Fox.

I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.

Why are you so afraid of FOX, BillAdkins?

Why are you so afraid of FOX, BillAdkins?

What's your solution.  Censorship?

That's pretty much the general Liberal solution to any view that doesn't march in lockstep with the talking points.

1.  Global Warming is everyone's fault, especially me.

2.  Bush is an evil dictator trying to subvert the Constitution.

3.  Democrats will solve all of our problems for us - just not keep me safe, but what the hey, let's not really discuss security and their track record.

4.  Everyone in the world has the rights provided to me under the Constitution.

5.  Cutting off heads with Rusty Knives is just another misunderstood example of the 'Religion of Peace'.

6.  Personal stuff (like drugs and sex) are all OK.  But of course smoking, driving what car you want and drinking alcohol to excess are not.

7.  Bush Lied, People Died.

8.  Taxes are good for you, and if you don't pay them at all we won't highlight that, but paint you as being a victim of lower taxes.  In fact, we'll even give you money for not paying taxes through the 'earned' income tax credits.

9.  Hugo Chavez is a nice guy.

10.  Everyone is a nice guy, gee, even Madam Albright kisses Kim in N. Korea.

11.  I'm too stupid to behave rationally, but then everyone who isn't in the 'Georgetown Cocktail Circuit' is too stupid.

12.  Government is here to help you.

13.  The UN is better than the US.

Right...

ACA

...

Quoted from:  'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)

ACA - Wow. Good list. I reall

ACA - Wow. Good list. I really like the one about sex, drugs, smoking, and cars. A perfect illustration and smackdown of the monkey-sh*t logic of the left.

ThisnThat, here's the best example possible of Liberal Junk.

ThisnThat, here's the best example possible of Liberal Junk.

Pat Kennedy has admitted an addiction to oxycoden.

Rush Limbaugh got addicted through a legitimate treatment for pain.

How did Pattie my boy get addicted?  In fact, where is the constant barrage of coverage about this overtly Liberal Democrat's addiction?

Does that make him a fat-headed addict?

um...

ACA

...

Quoted from:  'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)

What you've described in your

What you've described in your post, aca, is the antithesis of FOX's agenda - and that's what I don't like.  FOX has an agenda that is to promote the very opposite of what you've listed.  It's not a matter of whether I agree with it  or not - it's that they HAVE an agenda and that it is obvious.  You and people like you claim that media has a liberal bias and that such bias, if it exists, is bad.  And then you promote FOX as if it were anything but a tabloid version of real journalism.  Hour after hour after hour of Hannity and Gibson and O'Reilly and Hume - all promoting an agenda or the latest dead blond if in need of a diversion from bad news for Bush.  Apparenty bias is only bad if you perceive it as 'liberal.' 

As for your list, I haven't seen that much compost in one pile since the last tobacco planting season.  Nor do you put me on one side or the other of the issue just by printing it.  I.e., the UN could be put on a raft and set adrift in the North Atlantic for all I care.  The UN is about as irrelevant as George W. Bush - they both are being pushed around by forces they can't control.  George W., however, makes that sad sack of s--t UN look decisive.

I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.

Well, a real post from ya, BillAdkins. Now we can talk. ACA

Well, a real post from ya, BillAdkins.  Now we can talk.  ACA

I would take issue with you about 'promoting' FOX as anything.  I don't watch FOX myself.  I do browse their Website but I browse a lot of Websites.  I like the Dennis Miller segments.

So, that pretty much takes care of FOX from my side.

Whether FOX is biased to the right is an interesting question.  I think lately they have been having segments pointing to other networks as being biased to the Left with specific examples.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  FOX does actually present some news with Republican talking points.  There.  But they also present news that is unflattering to Republicans.  There.

But let me give you my personal example of bias and what made me join NB rather than sit passively by while this stuff went unchallenged.

CNN ran a story about the US Special Forces using Nerve Gas in Laos.  You do remember that little story.  Peter Arnett was involved (he claimed he was just commenting and not behind it, but you know how it is when your face has egg on it) and Laos was part of my AO in the Army.

I knew this story was an outright propagandistic lie.

It turned out to be an outright propagandistic lie.

Why would CNN do such a thing?  The only answer I could come up with was that they wanted to paint the US and its military and its leadership as brutal thugs with no moral ground who would just as soon gas innocent people as chew gum.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm possibly not bright enough to come up with a rational reason for CNN doing such a hit piece.

Then came along my old buddy, from Vietnam, Dan Rather.

The MSM has consistently protrayed service in the National Guard as somehow not standing in the 'front' lines in the defense of the country or in the War in Vietnam.  How can this be?  Without the National Guardsmen serving in Vietnam and taking jobs vacated by RA guys; we would have had to draft a whole lot more people than we did.

So, that is a canard from the beginning.  National Guardsmen were all individually as well as by unit subject to being ordered to duty in Vietnam just as quickly as some unwilling draftee.

And the National Guardsmen volunteered.

Where was Bill Clinton?  In Russia.  Of course, why didn't I think of that.  You know he never finished his Rhodes Scholarship?  That is a fact, Bill.

So, I really hate the conflation of the National Guard with cowards.  Get it?

So, our buddy boy Dan Rather who never had a kind word for us in Vietnam broadcasts just before the election this canard that Bush was AWOL from duty.  Based on a lie by a paranoid schizophrenic, Bill Burkett.  Are you following me here?

So, yeah.  I don't think FOX can hold a candle to the NYT, to Walter, to Danny Boy; to Peter Arnett....

Get it?

ACA

...

Quoted from:  'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)

As I recall, both Arnett and

As I recall, both Arnett and Rather lost their jobs.  Are YOU following ME here?  And I don't come here to fight yet again what I witnessed in the '60s and '70s from either side.  Vietnam was a clusterf--k and both sides contributed to it.  The opposition in '68 would not have occurred if the job had gotten done in a matter of a few weeks, but for the fear of, say, China or Russia getting in.  "Light at the end of the tunnel" and "vietnamization" and "rules of engagement" and all that, you know. 

But, back to the topic - Pete and Dan got canned -- when will we see less of Hannity and O'Reilly and more real news? 

I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.

My point Bill, my man, was not to rehash. My point was this.

My point Bill, my man, was not to rehash.  My point was this.

I've just cited several real world factual cases where networks overworked their bias and people got fired.  I didn't say these people weren't fired.  I said they represent the network bias of the MSM.

>>>you respond when will we see 'less of Hannity and O'Reilly and more real news'<<<

I say, when FOX ratings show they don't sell.  And further when they cheat like the two examples you cite.

ACA

...

Quoted from:  'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)

FOX is cheating with its ince

FOX is cheating with its incessant and never ending agenda, Aca.  You cite a few examples and allege a vast left wing conspiracy.  FOX 's agenda driven format is there for all to see and it's not the tin-foil hat product.  And,no, to the one who asserted Clinton was the worst president.  Not even close.  Carter was until GWB came along.  And I despised Carter as a president.  I stayed up on election night 1980 and counted each and every electoral college vote that overwhelmingly got rid of him.  And I voted twice for Reagan. However, I believe these Republicans of today would make Reagan blow chunks.  He'd leave the party out of humiliation and shame. They've become Carter x 10.

I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.

You cite a few examples and allege a vast left wing conspicy.

You cite a few examples and allege a vast left wing conspicy.

No I did not.

I cited examples of far left-wing media bias.  Main stream media bias against this country and in Dan's case, against our President.

Quit defending yourself over Carter.  If you are so sensitive about Carter change your tag line.  I don't care what you think about Carter.  Carter was responsible for about a 60% cut in my family's net wealth during his Presidency.  I don't like the man.  But I'm not talking to you about Carter.

I'm simply saying that if FOX has some bias it is nothing compared to the historical record of CNN or CBS.  I haven't found NBC's horrible screw up yet, but they seem to be waking up to reality.

FOX News is a TV news outlet.  If people think it is biased Right, they have an alphabet of networks that are pretty much biased left to watch.  These would be, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC and their local PBS channels.

Your opinion of the state of the Presidency is solely your opinion.  I don't share it in all areas, but I am dismayed at how the Republicans are not understanding they must show leadership and strength against the Democrat strategy of marginalizing the President and his people.

ACA

...

Quoted from:  'Acaiguana Notes from the Bomb Shelter' (soon to be a movie at theaters near you)

ACA = 3 BA = 0

ACA = 3
BA = 0

You cite a few examplesFriend

You cite a few examples

Friend, you're posting on a blog that has cited literally hundreds of examples of the left "agenda"/slant of the msm.  Please refute each of them.

I used to think Jimmy Carte

I used to think Jimmy Carter was the worst president in history - then along came George W. Bush.

Hmmmn.  I somehow image you are actually a big fan of Ex-President Carter.

By the way, I can’t say that I think that Mr. Bush at his worst is as bad as President Clinton was. That’s eight years down the American drain right there. The first eight, those post-Cold War years, thrown away by a narcissist and a crook. For the nomination of worst ever president, I can’t, I really, though I have many, many quarrels with President Bush, I cannot believe that people would say he was worse than Mr. Nixon or Mr. Carter, just to stay in modern times or Kennedy. --Christopher Hitchens

Fox makes an effort to (no, m

Fox makes an effort to (no, more than just an effort -- they do) invite people from all sides of the aisle to discuss issues. I, personally, wish they wouldn't -- but that's just me. Again, you mistake the personalities with the Fox approach. You don't like O'Reilly, for example, so you say his show is evidence of FOX's agenda.  But FOX's approach is to invite liberals and conservates to talk. You mention Hannity, but conveniently leave out Colmes. Why is that?

Yes, each FOX personality is permitted to have a few minutes talking about his personal views. But, and this is important so listen up --- they announce that it is their view. Unlike CNN, where "their" view is positioned as "fact".

So lighten up -- you get both sides on FOX, and if that's causing you problems, then that's fine. But it sounds like you don't like to hear both sides, and therefore you are using this dislike to make false accusations -- that's not ok.

So, BillAdkins -- whenever a

So, BillAdkins -- whenever a statement is made, we'd like to see it backed up. Got any real specifics regarding legitimacy, or just the normal, everyday peace-lovin' bromides of the loony left?

Waiting ..... and waiting.....

normally i would attack the g

normally i would attack the guy and say "don't legitimize gabler" but he represents about 30% of this country, sorry to say.

we need to hear what he says because so many have the same nutty irrational beliefs.

I think these people cannot

I think these people cannot grasp the concept of irony.
WhatAMaroon

Lefty media NEVER says "radical right-wing"

Gabler is a gobbler...meaning a turkey. How many times have MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, et al run stories where they've said, "radical" or "extreme right-wing"? All the time! How often do they say the words "liberal" or "social extremist"? NEVER...that's how often!

So tell me why the lone Fox News is being criticized? Because it's kicking everyone else's butt...that's why.

Cunservatyve military medical guy

If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul's vote!

Cunservative, for your info F

Cunservative, for your info Fox's numbers are actually in decline, they certainly appear to have peeked at a nightly audience of around two million. The democrats seem to have stumbled on a strategy to confine them to this little ghetto of around two mill versus the collective audience for the MSM of around 27 million. Murdoch may be happy with this since his whole show is based on the premise that there is a demographic out there of extreme right wingers who will lap up whatever intelligent and objective commentary Hume and Barnes can provide, but then he might not since at some point his advertisers are not going to be satisfied. Who can tell. The democrats strategy is actually potentially very effective. No cooperation, no participation, seems a sensible response since no one pretends that they are going to get anything approaching a unbiassed reaction from Fox. Much better to pigeon hole it as the press office of the RNC which it is more or less. That way a fairly tiny minority end up talking to themselves. A bit like this site really.         

&quot; That way a fairly tin

" That way a fairly tiny minority end up talking to themselves."

funny, otto! they will never admit that they only like to talk with themselves...anyone that disagrees with them is a lunatic!

very well put post, Otto...

schmidt: Great post per usu

schmidt: Great post per usual. You are a breath of fresh air, like liver and onions unlike the rest of these Neo Cons. But what do expect? Nazi’s like Finkelstein and Noel Sheppard are dominating NewsBusters with their faux news. Who believes this stuff? Also thanks for sticking up for the little people, I am a fairly tiny minority who likes to talk to myself and we seldom get the recognition we deserve. After all near immortals are having a ruff time these days. Keep up the good work Schmidt, you too, otto. Say I’ve got an Idea. We ought to get together sometime and go bowling!

The flying Imam: Tantalus the Insane. (There is madness in every answer)

yes the poor sad sacks have a

yes the poor sad sacks have a

yes the poor sad sacks have a haven here talking amongst themselves and deriding any libs that dare cross over the lines of their sacred circle

ps. are you attempting to be the new conservatives colbert on the liberal side? tdf

question: when was fox news ever legitimate?

Schmitt rhymes with.... says

Schmitt rhymes with.... says
" That way a fairly tiny minority end up talking to themselves."

funny, otto! they will never admit that they only like to talk with themselves...anyone that disagrees with them is a lun