FNC's Hume Chastises Media for Failing to Point Out How Clinton Fired Every Attorney

Photo of Brent Baker.
  • Bookmark and Share

Brit Hume led his Tuesday night Grapevine segment by scolding his media colleagues for how “news stories reporting that the Bush administration had considered firing all 93 U.S. attorneys across the country failed to mention that that is exactly what Bill Clinton did soon after taking office back in 1993.” Hume explained how that was not noted, “even in passing, in front-page stories today in the New York Times and the Washington Post, or in the AP's story on the subject.”

Earlier in the FNC newscast, reporter Steve Centanni pointed out how “the White House acknowledged there were talks in 2005, just after the President won his second term, about terminating all 93 U.S. attorneys just as President Clinton unceremoniously did 1993 after he won the White House.”

Story Continues Below Ad ↓

I'm working on a NewsBusters posting [now online] about how the Tuesday broadcast network evening newscasts all failed to note the wholesale firings at the beginning of Bill Clinton's first term, matching a missing element in a full story on Tuesday's Good Morning America on ABC -- as recounted in a NewsBusters posting by Scott Whitlock.

Hume's “Grapevine” item in full on the March 13 Special Report with Brit Hume:

“News stories reporting that the Bush administration had considered firing all 93 U.S. attorneys across the country failed to mention that that is exactly what Bill Clinton did soon after taking office back in 1993. The only sitting U.S. attorney Clinton did not cashier was Michael Chertoff, now the Bush Homeland Security Secretary. At the time Chertoff was U.S. attorney in New Jersey and then Democratic Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey intervened to save Chertoff's job. None of this was noted, even in passing, in front-page stories today in the New York Times and the Washington Post, or in the AP's story on the subject. By the way, the mass Clinton firings generated some news stories, some complaints from Republicans in Congress, but no congressional investigations, and not a word from Chuck Schumer.”

The March 13 front page Washington Post story, “Firings Had Genesis in White House: Ex-Counsel Miers First Suggested Dismissing Prosecutors 2 Years Ago, Documents Show.”

The March 13 front page New York Times article, “White House Said to Prompt Firing of Prosecutors,” which appears to no longer be online, at least not in its original form.

—Brent Baker is Vice President for Research and Publications at the Media Research Center


Comments Policy

All comments are owned by whoever posted them and are subject to our terms of use. They should not be assumed to represent the views of NewsBusters.

Viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

If fact tonight Krazy Keith m

If fact tonight Krazy Keith made mention that NO OTHER President has done this........

You'd almost get the impressi

You'd almost get the impression that the MSM are nothing more than LYING LEFT-WING PONDSCUM : ) ! But I absolutely insist we give them the benefit of the doubt, people...

Standard operating procedure

Standard operating procedure for an incoming President is to replace ALL of the U.S. Attorneys. That's what Bill Clinton did when he took office in 1993. There are 93 of U.S. Attorneys: that's why 93 were fired.

The difference with BUSH is that the U.S. Attorneys who were forced out were in the process of investigating the misdeeds of Republican lawmakers. This is particularly the case for Carol Lam down in San Diego, Dave Iglesias in New Mexico, and now, it appears, Thomas DiBiagio in Maryland. Look into it.

So essentially, what Clinton did has no reason to be reported. It was procedure.

Wrong on all counts.First of

Wrong on all counts.

First of all, Clinton fired all but one of them, all at once (he didn't fire a US Attorney from New Jersey, at the request of then-Congress critter Bill Bradley).

Question-can you provide a credible news source cite that shows that all of the previous Presidents had fired all of the US Attorneys at the same time?

Second, before Dubyah even had a chance to fire them all in 2001, 1/3 of the Clinton appointees had already submitted their resignations. Read it and weep!

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2001/March/107ag.htm

Mostly Mod,Once again, you've

Mostly Mod,

Once again, you've shown your true colors and why you take such a beating on this site. Stop for a moment and think about the logic and scope of your post.

I'm going to begrudgingly give you the point that ALL incoming Presidents fire ALL of the current US Attorneys. BTW, hate the words ALL or EVERY in ANY argument of ANY kind.

But let's move forward....

Why do ALL incoming Presidents fire ALL US Attorneys at the start of their first term if it's not for political reasons? Why does a President appoint an Attorney General if it's not for political reasons? Was Janet Reno a big supporter of Bush 41 or Reagan for that matter?

And who says that it's an all or nothing deal at the start of a Presidential term?

The point of this entire site is to highlight liberal media bias. That's exactly what Brent did. The hypocrisy of the MSM's immediate speculation on the Bush administration's actions while not putting Clinton's bunch under the same scutiny and quickly passing it off as routine is the DEFINITION OF LIBERAL BIAS.

Obviously, you've again swallowed their slant on the 'story' the same way a baby nuzzles his mother's breast without for a moment questioning their motives tells me that you will never admit what is ridiculously clear to the majority of the people here.

Enough said.

NeoConfirmed - Clinton's repl

NeoConfirmed - Clinton's replacements in 1993, as with Reagan's in 1981 and Bush's in 2001 ALL  had to be confirmed by the Senate. 

How many of these 8 canned AUSA'S replacements will need to be confirmed by the Senate?  Hmmm.. what's changed?  what's so different?

The media should emphasize that Bush is using a provision of the PATRIOT Act to bypass Senate confirmation of ALL AUSAs replacements. 

Subverting the anti-terrorism powers that Bush lobbied for (just for crass political appointments which would never be confirmed by the Senate ) is what makes this different from Clinton and Reagan.

Exactly! Thank you so much f

Exactly! Thank you so much for explaining that so well :-)

Ding - no the big differenc

Ding - no the big difference is that Clinton admin fired and Bush admin transitioned like normal. It's real convenient to make a big deal of the Senate confirmations. Why didn't the Dem Senators make a big deal of the provision then not the firing? How many attorneys had been denied confirmation in the past? Probably zero.


Dee...Especially Schumer! Aft

Dee...

Especially Schumer! After-all he has been leading the way with this false crusade.

He was in the House ... when President SHRillary fired them all and cleaned their clocks...

Not a word from the media...a little cry from the likes of Dole....he went something like...eek...that's it.

BT - yeah Schumer is such a

BT - yeah Schumer is such a slime bag

Dee Bunk - The Dem Senators d

Dee Bunk - The Dem Senators did make a big deal - perhaps FoxNews neglected to report it??  Feinstein says:

We now know that it is very likely that the amendment to the Patriot Act, which was made in March of 2006, might well have been done to facilitate a wholesale replacement of all or part of U.S. attorneys without Senate confirmation.

On Wednesday we will vote on a motion to give cloture to the bill that would return the Patriot Act back to where it was before this all happened. I very much hope that passed.

Looks like its very important since they want to roll it back.  

It was Procedure Plus

Don't forget that one of the US Attorneys that Clinton fired was investigating, uh, Clinton.  Fire only him and you have an obvious problem; fire all 93 and it's "procedure."

Winger55 -  Which US Attorne

Winger55 -  Which US Attorney was that?  Why didn't Bush keep Clinton's AUSAs?

Eat truth libs:Investors Busi

Eat truth libs:

Investors Business Daily:

"As governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton could keep a lid on things without much national attention or interest. As president, he had to be more careful. The U.S. attorney for Arkansas was George Banks. Dismissing him would raise eyebrows. Dismissing all 93 U.S. attorneys to get rid of one potentially troublesome one would not.

On Aug. 16, 1993, Paula Casey, an active Democrat and a law student of Bill Clinton’s, took over from her Republican predecessor. Her job was to run interference and thwart any criminal referrals related to Whitewater and the Rose Law Firm.
In addition to quashing a criminal referral of Madison from the Resolution Trust Corp., she also was tasked to prevent Judge David Hale, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy and mail fraud, from testifying against the Clintons. She rejected Hale’s effort at a plea bargain. He had offered to share information on the “banking and borrowing practices of some individuals in the elite political circles of the state of Arkansas.” Guess who?"

The move was also designed to try and save Dan Rostenkowski so he could stay on Ways and Means to play shepard to Hilarycare.

kubob21 - His name is Charles

kubob21 - His name is Charles Banks and he refused to open an inquiry

“There is absolutely no factual basis to suggest criminal activity on the part of any of the individuals listed as witnesses in the referral,” Banks said in a teletype.

But you do have one point.  Why would Bush fire Bud Cummins (a guy he appointed ) and replace him with  Tim Griffin?  How about having a crony in Arkansas to dig up dirt on Hillary if she becomes the Democratic candidate?

Clinton's preemptive strike

It was a preemptive strike by Clinton, as well as an opportunity to reward supporters. After 12 years of Republican rule, he was making sure none of the previous GOP-appointed attorneys were in a position to stir up trouble for him or his cronies. It was far more suspicious than this latest episode.

Not if you consider the fact

Not if you consider the fact that these Attorney's had been appointed by the Bush Admin.
Then take into consideration that these attorney's had been evaluated quite well.

Then take into consideration some other trickery that has occured regarding attorney's during this President. For example, the 2006 Reauthorization of the Patriot Act. You know, the one whereby candidates may now be seated by appointment of the President under an 'interim' appointment that lasts indefinitely, instead of the original 120-days, and without the formerly required approval by the Senate.

Still think Clinton's firing of attorneys was more suspicious??

Amazing what happens when there is more oversight in Congress, isn't it?

Wow, this is starting to look a lot like the good ol' Nixon days! Quite interesting I must say.

My my, mostly. Dont you ever

My my, mostly. Dont you ever get the story on anything before you go spouting off? Or do you always go off half cocked, making things up as you go along? You need to stay off MOn.org. Your brain is to soft to distinguish between real and make belive stuff.

P.S...pull that skirt down, your ignorance is ugly!

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Yeah "more" overs

Yeah "more" oversight makes total sense. Even where it is not needed. Why not "infinite" oversight? Better to grind the wheels of government to a complete halt while everything is checked with everyone. Or does oversight only apply to Republicans by Democrats in your view?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

mostlymoderate....pull your s

mostlymoderate....pull your skirt down, your ignorance is showing again.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

ABC News had George Stephanop

ABC News had George Stephanopolis on tonight discussing with Charles Gibson this very issue.  Here is a guy who was right there when Clinton did his mass dismissal at the beginning of his presidency - and NOT ONE WORD was mentioned of that fact.  But on and on they went about how this action was unwarranted and must be answered for by the administration - oops...I meant the BUSH administration.  Need I say more?

When are Republicans going to realize that we must ACT, not react.  The dickens with who is going to say what.  Look at how Gonzales is being made to look like a fool.  It's high time to quit trying to be the nice guy...it isn't going to work!  Just do it...the president is allowed to...and he doesn't owe Congress any explanation. 

It's tiresome to see republic

It's tiresome to see republicans to apologize everytime they say or do something that the left may disagee with. It is partly their responsability to let the public know that that this is not an unusual occurance. Then see if the MSM does their job and report on it.

go Brit, go Brit, go Brit, go

go Brit, go Brit, go Brit, go Brit

Mostlymoderate has a point. I

Mostlymoderate has a point. Is it standard operating procedure for incoming Presidents to fire all 93 U.S. attorneys at the begining of the presidency?  What did Reagan, Carter and Nixon do--did they fire all 93 attorneys at the begining of their administrations.  Perhaps it is normal to fire attorneys at the begining of the presidency and abnormal to fire them halfway through.  Did any of these other presidents fire attorneys halfway through their presidencies?  Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.  Personally, I don't know, but shoudn't we find out?

As for a president not having to explain himself, I believe that will change if Hillary becomes president.  Then you will want her to explain everything.  I am not a big fan of Hillary, by the way.

Mostly Moderate hasn't had a

Mostly Moderate hasn't had a point since his first boner.

Not True! Ask your mom!

Not True! Ask your mom!

Are you still here?

Are you still here?

I thought I told you to go back to your bridge.

Still here. Learning a lot,

Still here. Learning a lot, thank you

If you were learning a lot,

If you were learning a lot, you would be a Conservative by now.

A supervisor in an organizati

A supervisor in an organization can fire subordinates, not just when they take over, but at anytime during their tenure...and it's not even illegal!

Now about this global warming crap...

Responsibility


A supervisor in an organization can fire subordinates, not just when they take over, but at anytime during their tenure...and it's not even illegal!

A company CEO can hire accountants willing to cook the books, and backdate the stock options. But there is such a thing as fiduciary responsibility. ENRON execs go to jail for just that.

Attorney Generals, along with their President, are responsible for an
impartial judicial system. Even if not impeached, they have to face the court of public opinion.

Chuchulainn - Its customary f

Chuchulainn - Its customary for AUSAs to offer their resignations with each new adminsitration.  When Clinton came into office, many of the Reagan/Bush holdovers AUSAs refused to offer their resignation, forcing Clinton to fire them.

There is absolutely no reason for Clinton to have kept Reagan's political appointments any more than Bush should have kept Clinton's.

Bush is the first President, thanks to the PATRIOT Act, who can replace AUSAs -  when other presidents fired AUSAs at mid-term, the Federal Court named the replacement. 

"Forcing Clinton to fire

"Forcing Clinton to fire them."  

And why was Clinton forced to fire them?   Same reason he was forced to fire the travel agency staff at the Whitehouse?

NL207 - Because they would no

NL207 - Because they would not offer to resign as is customary with all political appointees.  Republican appointees who lacked class - but I'm being reduntant

Then perhaps all the Clinton

Then perhaps all the Clinton political appointees in the CIA and State department shold have offered their resignations as well when Bush took office, would you not agree?

NL207 -  its customary for p

NL207 -  its customary for political appointees to offer to resign

Transition to a New Presidential Administration

POSITIONS OR INDIVIDUALS SUBJECT TO CHANGE

There are four broad categories of individuals or positions that may be changed during transition:

  • Presidential appointments made with the advice and consent of the Senate (PAS) to positions in which the incumbent serves at the pleasure of the President;

  • Other Presidential appointments (PA) to positions in which the incumbent serves at the pleasure of the President;

  • Noncareer Senior Executive Service (SES) appointments; and

  • Appointments to other positions in which the incumbent serves at the pleasure of the agency head. These positions are excepted from the competitive service by law, by Executive order, or by the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) based on their responsibility for determining or advocating agency policy or their confidential character (commonly known as "Schedule C" positions).

Redundant with false inform

Redundant with false information Ding - they did not refuse anymore than the 2/3 who had not given their resignations to the Bush admin. Just like always some had some had not yet. Even those who had given their resignations were still fired and not transitioned.

Right NL...I posted that some

Right NL...

I posted that somewhere earlier...just ask Billy Dale all about it...

Eh Mrs. Clinton?

She and she alone is the one who took care of all of this internal workings when it came to the hiring and firing of EVERYTHING!

She had enough evidence on her husband through Jerry Parks (who she hired, and poof he is dead, and all video's and transcripts are gone according to his widow and son, his office was broke into after his so called car accident...) of his numerous affairs, especially Gennifer Flowers.

Bill Clinton was just her lap-dog...so to speak...lol!

She ruled every single thing.

No ding - they did not refu

No ding - they did not refuse to offer their resignations. You can't just make those kind of assumptions to excuse what Reno did. I'm sure some had not gotten around to it just like 2/3 of the 93 had not when Bush took office. They were not fired, just because they hadn't sent their resignations yet.

Dee Bunk -   The fact that

Dee Bunk -   The fact that Bush took 3 or 4 or x  months to replace Clinton's appointees is irrelevant - they were all replaced.  

And that's not what this brohaha is about - its about Bush using the PATRIOT Act to bypass Congress to install his cronies

Ding - no it's not. Every

Ding - no it's not. Every President took months and used the normal transition process except Clinton. He fired them all with 10 days notice or something.

You are the only one bringing up the Patriot act - the Press and Dems are making a deal about the firing. They will probably pick up on that angle also when they see they can bamboozle people with that as well

If the issue were the Senate confirmations - it would have been made before the firings. The Patriot act has been in effect for years. I never heard of any Attorneys not being confirmed before the patriot act and I haven't heard of any since.

Dee Bunk - the PATRIOT reauth

Dee Bunk - the PATRIOT reauthorization bill was signed last year (March 2006) which allows the Attorney General to appoint replacement AUSAs without Senate confirmation. This is from Sampson's email to Harriet Miers:

In addition, I strongly recommend that as a matter of administration, we utilize the new statutory provisions that authorize the AG to make USA appointments.... we can give far less deference to home state senators and thereby get 1.) our preferred person appointed and 2.) do it far faster and more efficiently at less political costs to the White House."

Ding - huh? Last year and

Ding - huh? Last year and this is the first time the issue is coming up? And it's not coming from the Press or the Dems - but from you? Sorry - what you have here does not show that this was an ammendment to the original patriot act and even if it were - why wasn't it news last year?

Dee Bunk -  I answered this

Dee Bunk -  I answered this upthread but here it is again. Bush signed the reauthorization in March.  The first firing was in December.  It snowballed with the canning of Carol Lam and the others in January.  Feinstein says:

We now know that it is very likely that the amendment to the Patriot Act, which was made in March of 2006, might well have been done to facilitate a wholesale replacement of all or part of U.S. attorneys without Senate confirmation.

On Wednesday we will vote on a motion to give cloture to the bill that would return the Patriot Act back to where it was before this all happened. I very much hope that passed.

The Dems  are going to try to roll back the provision and also hold hearings on how the darn provision got into the PATRIOT Act to begin with. 

Why isn't FoxNews reporting this?

Again ding - why didn't the

Again ding - why didn't they complain then before it passed and why are they complaining about the firing ? Firing has nothing to do with confirmation. Who has not been confirmed? How many have not been confirmed in the past? Could this provision have been made as a way of easing red tape for something that was already a rubber stamp? Stop spamming with the same info over and over please.

I think the confirmation pr

I think the confirmation process wasn't as much of a rubber stamp as it became after the "Patriot" Act, and I think the Democrats, internally, didn't mind trading yet-another former legislative branch power to Bush now so they'd have it with the next Democrat president, where it just might come in quite handy considering Clinton's experience. Externally, they probably argued to partisan Democrats that this would make a good talking point in the media whenever Bush used it. Also, it's hard to complain about things that get tacked-on to legislation in the last hours, even if, as in this case and unlike the non-debated "port security" provisions I'm giving the "death of 1000 cuts" right here, the tacked-on provision is actually halfway-relevant to what it's tacked-onto.
JMR

Sarc - You make a good poin

Sarc - You make a good point about them wanting to use it as a future talking point and liking the provision for themselves. If they don't like the provision - then they should shut up and change it. They are complaining now about something that I still have not heard has been used yet. Do you know anyone who has gone more than 120 days and not been confirmed? Do you know anyone who was denied confirmation in the past?

If almost no one was ever denied then what's the point of adding to the red tape and having positions open during the waiting process? We are talking here about someone who will serve for less than two more years and this is when they decide it's an earth shattering problem? It's not like these are lifetime judicial appointments.

Again - the complaints that the networks were airing were about the firing - not the appointments and whether or not they have been confirmed.

Ding - I'd also like to add

Ding - I'd also like to add - what possible reason could there be for not confirming an attorney if they haven't been disbarred unless it's political? This is all hoopla about nothing. These are not lifetime appointments and they are not high level.

Ding... are you stupid? Cli

Ding... are you stupid? Clinton fired every US Attorney at the same time.... it was his right as president. So how is it when Bush fires some, it's a conspiracy? You leftists are absolutely retarded. Get help... get a full frontal lobotomy.

____________________________________________________

" If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. " ~ Thomas Paine

ding dong...It is all irrelev

ding dong...

It is all irrelevant...

Any President can have any US Att. fired whenever he wants to.

It has zilch to do with the Patriot Act.

Go away you supercilious twittering troll,

Period.

bigtimer - I guess Kyle Samps

bigtimer - I guess Kyle Sampson forgot it had zilch to do with the Patriot Act

In addition, I strongly recommend that as a matter of administration, we utilize the new statutory provisions that authorize the AG to make USA appointments.... we can give far less deference to home state senators and thereby get 1.) our preferred person appointed and 2.) do it far faster and more efficiently at less political costs to the White House."

Hmmm... I wonder what those new statutory provisions are?  Do you know, bigtimer?

Ding - this is becoming SPA

Ding - this is becoming SPAM - you are posting the same thing over and over. Please stop.

You keep insinuating that t

You keep insinuating that the White House is abusing the PATRIOT Act in this situation; that's a serious charge if true, but can you back it up? Apparently, by invoking the Act, Bush can replace AUSA's without Congressional approval; he can also order the invasion of Canada if he wishes. But he hasn't done either one. As far as I've been able to tell, the prosecutors have been forced to resign -- fired, whatever -- but have not yet been replaced. (If they have, I can't find the names of their replacements.) Obviously this is different from the house-cleaning at the start of a new administration; I agree with you that far. But the administration can fire whoever they want for whatever reason they want -- we don't have to agree. Congress doesn't have any say in the firing, either, only in confirming new appointees.

According to the NYT, the Arkansas district AUSA was fired in order to give the job to a "Rove protege" -- crass, if true, but not illegal. There is allegedly an e-mail where Kyle Sampson threatened to use that provision of the PATRIOT Act to override any Congressional objection to the Arkansas appointee, but I can't see that it's been done. And it should be noted that Mr. Sampson has also just been fired.

This getting in a lather about what Bush might do is at best premature. (Do you write for the Times, by chance?) If you know of any abuse of the PATRIOT Act that has occurred in this instance, I'd like to hear about it. But in the morning, since it's past midnight where I am.

dervish -  Has Bush fired 8

dervish -  Has Bush fired 8 AUSAs?  Will they be replaced?  How will they be replaced? 

Will Bush use the new anti-terrorism PATRIOT Act to replace the 8 canned AUSAs without Senate confirmation?   You decide.

The Kyle Sampson email is not alleged - its part of the document dump

"dervish - "Has

"dervish -

"Has Bush fired 8 AUSAs?" Yes. And? He probably scratched his ass once today too.

"Will they be replaced?" Probably.

"How will they be replaced " If you can predict the future, please give me the powerball numbers for this week.

What's next, criticism of Bush for appointing judges? Living at the White House? Owning an Ipod?

"Will Bush use the new anti-terrorism PATRIOT Act to replace the 8 canned AUSAs without Senate confirmation? You decide."

Actually, Bush will decide. And if he does so without Senate confirmation, so be it. As you pointed out, it is legal per the Patriot Act. Your guys had a chance to kill the act, but they punked out. Again.

Until the replacements actually happen, any talk about what will happen is speculation, mumbo jumbo and smoke and mirrors most likely created by Dems to distract from their 19-20 failed attempts to become Commander in Chief over the war via some bogus non-binding resolution, lol.


Reminder: Don't forget to pay your taxes. 12 million illegal immigrants are counting on you.

I said "alleged"

I said "alleged" because until the half-dozen times you've posted it on this thread, the only place I read that was in the NYT. You'll forgive my not taking their word for it.

And you promptly prove my point: you're in a projectile sweat about Bush circumventing the Senate when in fact he hasn't done so. He fired the AUSAs -- so? The provision in the PATRIOT Act was to allow for emergency replacements if, in a crisis, an AUSA was killed or disabled. It would be a stretch to invoke it now. But as far as I can tell, that was just Sampson's wild idea, and Sampson has been fired (maybe that is partly why).

This is shaping up to be like the Plame kerfluffle -- a lot of handwringing over who's responsible for a crime that, sonofagun, hasn't been committed in the first place. When the PATRIOT Act is misused, complain and I'll be more impressed with your point.

What do you people expect??

What do you people expect??? We are at war with Liberals... and they'll do anything including, lie, cheat and steal to win. In fact, if they start losing bad enough, they'll resort to violence and perhaps assassination and murder. The only time I have ever advocated violence is when there was a clear Constitutional case for it... i.e. treason.

____________________________________________________

"When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon." ~ Thomas Paine

not advocating violence, except...

So once you get in charge of the death squads we can sleep easily at night knowing, post facto, than anyone you chose to terminate was just another traitor. I am so relieved.

austin..As well you should...

austin..

As well you should...

lbz knows his stuff...I would trust him anywhere...anytime!

Glad you like the right left and in between discussion here...

Where are you politically...

As if I need to ask...

LOL!

Where am I

Bigtimer, you ask where am I politically. You tell me. I am anti-bureaucracy, anti-control freak, pro-capitalist, anti-parochial, pro-science, religiously ignorant (church of idonno...), open source, politically skeptical, generally compassionate, pro law, order and prosperity. Right and left wing people both call me traitor for opposite reasons; probably wouldn't last a minute under the tender mercies of lbz, or islamo-fascist death squads, and under water boarding I'd hold my breath till I passed out, before you got started. Radical middle?

Radical Middle. I like it.

Radical Middle. I like it.

mm...Of course you do.Nothing

mm...

Of course you do.

Nothing like the squishy middle...

Walking the fence...what fun that must be, not knowing when you might have to defend yourself or someone you love, be careful, while walking that picket fence of life on both sides of the aisle of life you might slip off and get a big surprise right up your middle.

It's actually no fun at all.

It's actually no fun at all. I would do ANYTHING to be on one side of the fence or the other (why the hell do you think I hang out at Newsbusters?). I am praying for that ONE topic that is going to "put me over the edge" and then I can sleep restfully knowing that I am a full-blooded liberal/conservative. I'm like a political "half-breed" trying to find my place in the political spectrum. I know you disrespect that, and that is fine. Some things just don't look right to me yet. Maybe I am a self-hating Republican? I dunno, I'll figure it out eventually. Hopefully I won't annoy you too much in the process. ;-)

mm, You'll find your way...st

mm,

You'll find your way...stick around.

I am not a fool, I have watched you play the game since you have been here...I know what you post to others when they are here...

Sing a song...smile, be happy...you will find your way.

Do not forget mm, we have posted back and forth before, and you have gone 180 once too many for me to trust, but time will tell...

LOL!

Have a good one pal...

If you're "radical mid

If you're "radical middle," it's quite likely you don't fit well on a simpleminded left-right line. (Which means, "sorry, but there's a pretty good chance you might be stuck with me.")
JMR

Depends

It's comforting to know that one perspective fits all situations. Except...ahh..just dont try driving the right side of the road when you visit Australia, no matter what your bias.

So Austin, let me ask you t

So Austin, let me ask you this.... Is an execution, administered to someone who was found guilty of a capital crime, a person being killed by death squads? Your ad-hominem hyperbole and sarcastic demeanor do this conversation little good, and you would do well to argue a point rather than attack the messenger.

While I don't believe that capital punishment works to deter crime, and do not support it on those grounds. I do support capital punishment as a way of taking out the trash.

In the same way, if a person betrays his or her country to the enemy, and that betrayal leads to the death of other Americans, as far as I am concerned, he needs to be dragged up before congress and put on trial, not before a jury of his peers, but before the Congress of the United States. Then, the evidence needs to be presented, and if it shows that he betrayed his countrymen, he should be summarily executed... no waiting period.

We have enemies out there who are ready for a long and protracted war. This enemy has been our enemy since our country first began, and they will continue to be our enemy until we defeat them outright.

Do you think it is ok to give aid and comfort to the enemy? Do you believe it is ok to call our soldiers criminals while ignoring the crimes and threats of our enemy who's sole purpose is to come here and subdue or kill us?

And have you studied the Koran? I would challenge you to begin doing an in depth study of Islam to see for yourself whether they're telling the truth about being a religion of peace. I already have done this, and have already come to the conclusion that they need to be stopped. I came to this conclusion in the early 90s, but you may take longer... what more do you need than 9-11?

____________________________________________________

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." ~ John Adams

Treason

So Austin, let me ask you this.... Is an execution, administered to someone
who was found guilty of a capital crime, a person being killed by death squads.

No. What is happening is that I get set off by the "treason" thing.
World wide, treason is so often invoked for political offenses, so rarely for
material betrayals of the security of the nation. that I usually associate
it with a kind of ritual political murder. That is not so say that
"treason" could never be a justified verdict.

So, yes, you are right, so long as the idea of treason is being treated
soberly. If that was the case then I was jumping to a conclusion about the context of it's use.

It might be a good idea to just talk about crimes, war crimes, and acts of
war. But, it's probably unfair of me to tell people how they should word
their opinions.

Your ad-hominem hyperbole and sarcastic demeanor do this
conversation little good, and you would do well to argue a point rather than
attack the messenger.

Fair enough. I have insufficient context to know exactly how the message was meant. Tossing around the treason word, is like the red flag to the bull in me.

While I don't believe that capital punishment works to deter crime, and do not support it on those grounds. I do support capital punishment as a way of taking out the trash.

Again, I have problems with the connotations. I note that the easiest way
to defeat normal human inhibitions is to redefine another human as being
something inanimate and detestable. I am reluctant to casually use such
analogies, due to this fallibility which is so well known, and so often
abused. I just generally reject logic that involves over the top
redefinitions or analogies. The conclusion might be correct, but the work
to make the case must not be neglected.

I agree that capital punishment is insufficient deterrence to crime to
justify it on that basis. My remaining opposition to it has to do with the
corrupting effect it has on the executioner. That's another worthy debate.

In the same way, if a person betrays his or her country to the enemy, and that betrayal leads to the death of other Americans, as far as I am
concerned, he needs to be dragged up before congress and put on trial, not before a jury of his peers, but before the Congress of the United States.

It's not practical to bring every accused traitor up before Congress. I
also note that both intent and effect, and perhaps a few other points, ought to be evaluated to make the case for treason. It's not necessarily an easy judgment.

In times of sufficient desperation, I can forgive a lot of legal niceties.
My feeling is that we are a long way from that degree of desperation.
However, this too is a worthwhile debate, which time does not allow here.

Then, the evidence needs to be presented, and if it shows that he
betrayed his countrymen, he should be summarily executed... no waiting
period.

Sure, if he goes immediately to congress, but as that is generally not
practical, let me just look at your anger, expressed in the hypothetical
context, and I sympathize with righteous anger and frustration, but suggest it is more important to channel that anger into constructive action, rather than vent it into the hypothetical.

We have enemies out there who are ready for a long and protracted war.
Enemies are enemies until we make peace with them. Win or loose. Then,
oddly enough they may even become friends. Look at the case of Vietnam.

This enemy has been our enemy since our country first began, and they will continue to be our enemy until we defeat them outright.
What are we talking about here? Islam? Liberals? And what would
defeating them mean, short of genocide? Are you sure they have been our enemies since the country began? And some of them are us. So are we our own enemy? Well, I suppose, wouldn't be the first time.... :-)

Do you think it is ok to give aid and comfort to the enemy?
Sometime truth is more important than the effect it has on the enemy. There are a few other strategic considerations having to do with the short term effects versus the long term effects that can sometimes trump the normal case, but in general, no, it is not OK to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

Do you believe it is ok to call our soldiers criminals while ignoring the
crimes and threats of our enemy who's sole purpose is to come here and
subdue or kill us?

On calling soldiers criminals, some few of them OK, the vast majority of
them not OK.

Ignoring the crimes and threats of the enemy would be foolish indeed. We have many enemies, and they have different intents. Some enemies are enemies due to misunderstandings. We should always try to clear the
misunderstandings that keep us enemies. Others cannot be reasoned with. We can only do our best to defend ourselves from them. Most of the "enemy" in Iraq are not the ones that have the sole purpose of coming over here to subdue or kill us. Some few of them do have that intent.

And have you studied the Koran?
Yes, I read it last year.

I would challenge you to begin doing an in depth study of Islam to see for
yourself whether they're telling the truth about being a religion of peace.

I find some passages in the Koran that argue for peace. Some that argue for peace if the opposition is sufficiently submissive. Some that argue for violence. In practice, much of Islam emphasizes peace. Go back a few hundred years and most Islam was reasonably tolerant of others, especially anyone identified as one of the people of the book. A number of current strains of Islam are the opposite, and advocate endless frenzy of violence.

I note that parts of the bible advocate genocide, and we Christians/Jews,
believers or just culturally Christian or Jew, usually tend to emphasize
those parts that speak more to peaceful emotions, although some do not. Culture and Religion take many forms. They usually cant be be analyzed in too theoretical a way.

I have lived for a time in different Muslim countries. I know the sense and
feeling of peace that the more benign manifestations of Islam can convey -- awe for the beauty of God's creation, compassion and other laudable values. I know that fanaticism comes and goes, and human weakness ebbs and flows too. The culture shock, the competition for resources, the poverty and the wealth, these all have various political manifestations. We have to take it as it comes, and deal with it all as need be.

I already have done this, and have already come to the conclusion that
they need to be stopped. I came to this conclusion in the early 90s, but you may take longer... what more do you need than 9-11?

There are those who need to be stopped. There those whose fire would burn out if we just left them alone. In some cases we have the resources to solve the problem. In some cases we only have the resources to contain it. Unfortunately, in some cases we don't even have the resources to contain it, and have to negotiate a truce, hoping that time will bring the enemy to it's senses. We have to watch that our lines of supply don't become too long and thin, and we have to pick our field of battle with all strategic consideration.

We have to look at other countries that have survived a 9-11 and worse. We have to tighten our ship of state. I note that the disasters of policy that followed 9-11 may have been worse than 9-11 itself. That is justifiable only if future 9-11's can't be contained by any other method. The methodology has to include use of every bit of wit and wisdom. Military action can sometimes support wise policy. It can never replace it.

Thanks for taking the time to write me in such detail.

Carp sez

save 'em fer Soylent green

Dr. Carpareus ASS.SK.

Great discussion

Great discussion, all you posters, right , left and middle. Thanks for all the insights on how the system works. I'm having a new think on which president used or misued his powers to fire AUSA's. Meanwhile, I wonder if anyone has a comment on whether this is the only reasonable way the system should work, if it isnt a good example of why the US government always does generate so much internal political corruption. Is there a better structure possible? and who would favor a change to it? and whether such change is possible.

You're not alone austinhook.

You're not alone austinhook. There are bad Democrats and there are bad Republicans. Who suffers in the end? The people, the common "Joe". I wish there was some "in between". I can't stand partisan politics, that's all.

I will admit a lot of the p

I will admit a lot of the posters this morning seem to only be parroting the same thing over and over without answering some of the legitimate points brought up here. I'll check NRO's corner and see what I can find. (though I like what Karl Rove said about the firings: "The attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president.
Traditionally, they’re given four-year terms. . . . Clinton replaced
all 93 when he took office. We’ve appointed 128 [so far]. Clinton did
123. Because seven were [replaced] all at once, people wanted to play
politics with it.") But I did want to refer you MM to Jonah's Goldberg's article today that Unity is Overrated. As he said "But democracy is about disagreement, and you can’t have the former without the latter."

This state's attorney thing i

This state's attorney thing is all new to me too, but from most everything I've been reading it is not standard procedure to fire all of the ASAs when a new president comes into office.  Clinton was the first and only one to fire all of them en masse.  Most presidents change the ASA pool through attrition, job changes, etc.  It seems to me like Bush did the right thing by culling some poor performers from the herd, and the real burr under the saddle for the Dems is that the folks who were fired were ASAs who refused to investigate voter fraud.  Since the Dems go ballistic everytime someone dare suggest that voters should have to properly identify themselves, this "outrage" should come as no surprise.

Does Gonzales have a screw

Does Gonzales have a screw loose? He admits that "Mistakes were made". WTF!?, that's like chum to the sharks in MSM and democrats. Why the hell does this administration have to placate the media and the dems at the drop of a friggin hat! Now even the RINOS are going to join in the feeding frenzy! Did the last election completly castrate every damn republican in DC? sheesh, what a bunch of wimps!

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MM...I thought the same thing

MM...I thought the same thing. Why dident he just tell them, Clinton fired all of them, except one, when he was elected. They serve at the pleasure of the President, and represent the Administration in courts. In effect, W just fired his lawyer because he wasent doing the job to the presidents satisfaction. Case closed. The dems need to be reminded of Clintons actions, and the Hill needs to be put in her place. Heal bi**h!

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Bass, you would think after

Bass, you would think after decades of the Demo playbook of "deny at all costs" that the repubs would stop using the "justify at all costs" approach when attacked. It's obvious that there is no place in politics for honesty and integrity, no good deed goes unpunished, as the saying goes....

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MM...I agree totaly. I prefer

MM...I agree totaly. I prefer the Patton playbook of "Hit em, and hit em hard!" When Clinton spouted off, she should have been challanged out right! Right in front of God and everyone!

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Alas Fox News didn't point th

Alas Fox News didn't point that Reagan also fired all his attorneys when he took office in 1981. It is of course standard operating procedure to replace all or most of the US attorneys at the start of each presidency.

Fred, draft

Fred, draft

tough luck bucko

XP