Dennis Miller Debates Patriot Act, Prods Walters to Call Pelosi 'Terrific'

Photo of Justin McCarthy.

After some very controversial remarks on Wednesday’s edition of The View comedian and neoconservative Dennis Miller appeared on Thursday. After discussing John McCain’s announcement and the recent feud between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, Miller joked about Nancy Pelosi’s rapidly blinking eyes, leading Barbara Walters to defend her as "terrific." Miller also debated Rosie O’Donnell on the finer points of the Patriot Act. The exchanges are below.

Joy Behar: "How about Nancy Pelosi, what do you think of her?"

Dennis Miller: "Well, listen. If they pick her as the VP, I’m not going to be able to watch State of the Unions. Because if she is back there like, with the blink- it looks like she was signaling the Carpathia that she hit an iceberg or something."

Barbara Walters: "I think she’s terrific."

Miller: "Yeah I know she is because you both like those Hermes scarfs that, you know, that they wear."

Walters: "That’s not why- watch it buddy. That’s not why I think she’s terrific."

Then

Dennis Miller: "Now I’m for George Bush right now, and guess what, if Hillary Clinton’s our next president I’m for her. We’re in a bad bind right now. We have to get behind our guy. [Applause] We got to stop all this fighting."

 Joy Behar: "Even if he's delusional and wrong?"

Miller: "Listen it is a beau- it's a tough job. I might think Hillary’s delusional if she gets in and decides to pull out. All I'm saying is I'm on this country's side right now and I'm behind our guy."

[Applause]

Behar: "So are we."

O’Donnell: "But Dennis, do you believe- Wait a minute."

Behar: "We're all on this country's side."

Rosie O’Donnell: "Don't you believe democracy demands dissent? Don’t you believe that like the Patriot Act has robbed us of us our civil liberties in this country, that fear has taken over from faith in democracy, in the Constitution?"

Miller: "No I don't."

O’Donnell: "I do."

Elisabeth Hasselbeck: "In terms of war don't you think it should be a little different, Dennis?"

Miller: "You know, the whole thing about the library books that they don't want people checking library books, I swear to God, Rosie, just research this so the next time we talk, I don't think that statute has been used once."

O’Donnell: "The Patriot Act?"

Miller: "No, no, the looking in to people's library record. Now listen when Woodward and Bernstein looked into Howard Hunt's library records, it was thought to be one of the seminal moments in American democracy. It’s thought to be a benchmark moment of what this country’s about. Now listen, if we want to Ramzi al Kaboom because he took four bomb cookbooks out in a month, all of a sudden it’s wrong? We’ve got to stop the acrimony."

O’Donnell: "If we sacrifice liberty for perceived security-"

Miller: "We’re not Rosie."

O’Donnell: "- you don't deserve either."

Miller: "You know what? Listen, I’ll agree with you up to a point but if you're asking me if I don't want to check phone calls between here and Saudi Arabia and Iraq, just to be free and blown up, I don’t agree with you."

O’Donnell: "You can check anything. It’s not just Iraq. They can check anything. And it’s un-American. But, anyway we like you still."

—Justin McCarthy is a news analyst at Media Research Center.


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I salute Mr. Miller. Not only

I salute Mr. Miller. Not only did he hold his own - amidst these harpies - he overran them (great dismissive line about the Hermes scarves). Of course, he runs the risk of being turned into a frog or something...

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

I loved that line about the s

I loved that line about the scarves too Chris!

The Best!

They took offense....amazing....lol!

Job well done Miller, points well made!

Insults only hurt if they hav

Insults only hurt if they have a hint of truth.

Miller rules

Argghhh...no Miller video link.

Miller/ fatrat pack video?

Does anyone have a link to the video for this please?

'Gun control means using two hands and yelling "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.' copyright 2007

bt,I love it when a Conservat

bt,

I love it when a Conservative fights back...and wins! :)

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Hi chris......and I agree!To

Hi chris...

...and I agree!

Too bad more do not do that instead of being so namby-pamby PC scared all the time...it is easy as pie to win with a leftist, especially an angry one with no wits!

bt, Hi, right back atcha. We

bt,

Hi, right back atcha. We need more smart alecky Conservatives - enough of these accountant types (no offense to accountants - I salute their work) - who just sit there and feebly protest and semi-apologize for being conservative. The bonus is - it'll drive the MSM crazy - "We need more civil discourse from Conservatives...". I love it.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

no but if you touch o'donnell

no but if you touch o'donnell or behar you get warts.

Just watching them, you might

Just watching them, you might catch something through the t.v.  I know my skin crawls, that might be the cooties coming through.

"He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere"          -Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, 4th Islamic Caliph

Exactly.

Exactly.

'Gun control means using two hands and yelling "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.'

No self-respecting cootie w

No self-respecting cootie would go anywhere near Rosie, Joy, or Baba

I agree, Chris.  He dared en

I agree, Chris.  He dared enter the Snake Pit, and he made the snakes look foolish.  If only Hasselback had the debating skills and grasp of facts to do everyday what Dennis slammed dunked today.

"Twang yer majic twanger, Froggy!"

Fortunately I have a supply of FROG-b-bac (tm)+(sm) for just such an occasion (see forth reference down; you're welcome he said as he smiled quietly to {see tenth under poofter definition} himself 8>D).

MON-TEEEEE!!! (from Eddy's "Golden Child")

F_all_of_YI or FYI, (first) Y referring to "all of you", second link- to a GREAT Monty Python site- went FUBAR pretty quick probably thanx to clicks by our Watchers? Let's maybe try it again a bit later to see if what, his server is back up 8D? I don't know- let's try it again later anyway just because it's SOP.

Carp

'Gun control means using two hands and yelling "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.'

Liberty for Perceived Security

The most perceptible effect of that favorite  bete-noir of the left, the Patriot Act is showing a driver's license when you open a bank account.  Where are the hords of innocents languishing in dungeons?

And these gals think President Bush is delusional. Imagine how angry Joy would become if someone suggested she was delusional

Not if you're an illegal deal

Not if you're an illegal dealing with Bank of America (Bank of Coyote)

cwg,...that's the Bank of Ami

cwg,

...that's the Bank of Amigo...

lol!

Biggy-I like the "ring&q

Biggy-I like the "ring" of Bank of Amigo, but prefer the "meaning" of Bank of Coyote.  Coyotes smuggle illegals in from Mexico and charge the illegals huge amounts.  BofA (C) opens up credit card accounts with the highest interest rate charges for the same people once they get here.  Therefore both BofA and coyote smugglers both aid and abet illegal activity and profit handsomely from it.  That's laissez-faire at its worst.

cwg...I agree with you.......

cwg...

I agree with you....

....just trying to add a little laughter, before tumbster gets here...

LMAO! (If I didn't laugh at what is happening in this country, let alone world, I would be in tears all the time, I have to have laughter...)

"undocumented immigrants"

I'd appreciate it if you would use the correct terminology. It's no longer "illegal alien." It is now "undocumented immigrant."

-----sarcasm off--------

That's so 2006!  The new ter

That's so 2006!  The new term is tax-free migrant worker. 

illegals

Way't jes one pea pickin' minute Mr. Eric Turner! I'll have you know that there are PLENTY of ill eagles around!

Carp

'Gun control means using two hands and yelling "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.' (tm)+(sm) 2007

new Italian helicopter- PM me to "hear" the joke

B of A's original name was the (little) Bank of Italy- scroll down to "6. Amadeo Peter Giannini (1870 - 1949)".

The above organization's history is quite "colorful".

Carp

'Gun control means using two hands and yelling "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.'

"But, anyway we like you

"But, anyway we like you still." -- Typical liberal trick to end a losing argument.

ugh, Rosie and Joy are the WORST

Way to sling around those tired cliche catchphrases, Rosie: "Those who give up their civil liberties BLAH BLAH BLAH..." Why does anyone on the right bother going on this show, all you're going to do is sit there while KillJoy and Rosie try to be the smartest people in the room as always and the tired lib BS flies. Funny, they hate him now as is trendy to do, but if either of these morons were kidnapped by terrorists they'd be the first to yell "President Bush, help us!!!"

The terrorist would sooner sa

The terrorist would sooner saw his own head off if he had to endure the mindless drivel from those two shrews.

Dennis Miller completely held his own as he usually does.  I love his use of obscure references.

Interestingly excellent point

The terrorist would sooner saw his own head off if he had to endure the mindless drivel from those two shrews

Interestingly excellent point.

Carp

Gun control means using two hands and saying "Halt 3 (three) times" before firing.

What exactly is president sup

What exactly is president supposedly delusional about anyway?  It seems that whenever someone disagrees with the Left, they are considered delusional.  Sure, conservatives are not always right, but their batting average is still better than most everyone on the left.  And I still have yet to hear most prominent liberals apoligize for anything when they're wrong.

I think they believe he is de

I think they believe he is delusional because he believes we are at war.  Remember, according to liberals in the MSM, the biggest threat to America is not terrorism, it's George Bush.

The only way these people would ever think Bush was NOT delusional would be if he committed suicide because that would indicate he finally caved into the argument that he was the actual problem.

BTW, I completely agree with your comment about liberals never apologizing.  William Jefferson, Ted Kennedy, John Murtha and Gary Studds are terrific examples.  When a conservative is exposed for wrong-doing, they resign.  When liberals are exposed, it's a right-wing conspiracy!  They can't promote them quick enough after that.

Of cousre WaWa likes Blinky..

Of cousre WaWa likes Blinky...they both have the same problem, and they both most likely use the same Botox doc....

Miller played them like the little leftist fools they are...great job Dennis!

Miller for Prez!

President Miller?  Hmmm.  C

President Miller?  Hmmm.  Can you imagine how many hours worth of research the MSM would have to perform just to interpret the obscure references in his state of the union address? 

I'm LMAO imagining Katie Couric with her jaw on the floor wondering what in the world he just said, looking to her producer to see how she should react :-)

Desperado...

Now THAT was a good point.  Funneh too. 

At the very least, Miller for

At the very least, Miller for White House Press Secretary.

Great job, Dennis - made salient, intelligent points while disarming the cast with his wit. He most certainly could've taken it up a notch if need be... and I think the ladies knew it and should count their blessings that he didn't.

I would've liked Dennis to ask Rosie what specifically she has been unable to do since the Patriot Act was enacted.

*****

"The Patriot Act... read it!" - Wayne Jarvis

I think of Pelosi like I thin

I think of Pelosi like I think of Joy, Rosie (hateful all the time) and Barbara--the same tripe based on lies and silliness that adds zero to the public debate.  These are clowns dressed like women who know next to nothing of value or substance and yet they show up every day on television.  It's absurd and a waste of time.  Glad I'm at work. 

Liberalism is a convenient lie.

"Rosie O’Donnell: &quo

"Rosie O’Donnell: "........... Don’t you believe that like the Patriot Act has robbed us of us our civil liberties in this country, that fear has taken over from faith in democracy, in the Constitution?"

Notice how Rosie conveniently fails to cite any actual examples of civil liberties being robbed. She is  not much better than a DNC voice mail recording. I also recall her several years ago saying she had no problem with Hillary's little file-gate escapde. Hypocrite.  

If you've done nothing wron

If you've done nothing wrong, then you've got nothing to fear. With all these liberals claiming civil liberties being infringed, it makes me feel like they WANT me to question what sort of illegal acitivity they've been doing to destroy this country.

It seems as that whenever someone mentions "liberty" or "freedom" to liberals, they immediately think "civil liberty" or "civil freedom." But America isn't a civil rights lovefest, it's economic liberty, freedom from terrorism, and LASTLY, civil liberties.

If all you care about is civil liberties, then Amsterdam is your new home. I encourage you to get the hell out of this country. I'll pay for your ticket out of here. Just so long as I don't have to listen to your ranting and raving about "George Bush is listening to my phone calls!" Carter did too, but where was the outrage then?

It is complete BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). If only they made a pill...

...and on top of that the Lib

...and on top of that the Library thing was mostly due to the use of computers by the enemy...I guess the computers there are unfiltered, so.....makes perfect sense to me.

Yeah, about that 'library' th

Yeah, about that 'library' thing.  Earth to Rosie.........  I work in a public library.  When a patron returns a book and I check it in, the history of that book is erased off the patron's history.  Even if a patron wants to know what he/she has read in the past, I can't tell.  The patron record is wiped clean.  And by the way, Rosie--dissent for dissent's sake alone (or because you have a personal hatred for our president) isn't patriotic.  It isn't illegal.  But it isn't patriotic. 

You missed something Scout, a

You missed something Scout, and Dennis missed a perfect opportunity.  "If you disagree, isn't dissent patriotic?"  Rosie, you ignorant slut!  Dissent is "I disagree with this policy for the following reason(s), and this is what I would have done differently and why."  Accusing Bush and Cheney of being "liars and murderers" is not dissent, it is slander, and treason when it happens in a time of war.  "I believe radical Christianity (whatever that is) is as dangerous to the world as radical Islam" isn't dissent, it is stupidity.  How many ticked off, obese lesbians have the "radical Christians" in this country beheaded, huh, Rosie?

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Actually there is plenty to f

Actually there is plenty to fear if you are wrongly accused these days, just look at Scooter Libbey.  Sometimes to clear your name it takes loads of cash and gobs of time.  In the case where Rosie obviously means you are right there is most likely nothing to fear if you have done nothing wrong.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. -- save my gun, shoot a liberal.

Did anyone actually watching

Did anyone actually watching the show happen to notice anyone in the audience (or at least on the panel) laughing at Miller's Titanic reference?

Rosie and Behar, with their extensive comedic background, should have at least recognized his smooth delivery.

Just sayin' Miller was throwing a slowball there; it should have elicited a few yuks.

Hope the audience wasn't that dumb.

-PJ

"I'm not a theologist. I'm not an archaeologist. I'm a documentary filmmaker." -James Cameron

"The View" should b

"The View" should be renamed "The Eyesore".  I can't believe they would actually have Dennis Miller on, never mind think they could beat him in any kind of argument.  He is Einstein to Rosie and Joy's Elmer Fudd.  They are totally clueless about the Patriot Act, never mind the threats to our national security and safety.  They are the most loathesome creatures.

"He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere"          -Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, 4th Islamic Caliph

You've got that right, kath

You've got that right, kathleen....all of it! I have never seen the show, but I read enough about what they say and do to make me know it's one step above toddler babble. . It's a show for women who find Oprah and Dr. Phil too cerebral.  Apparently these women think just because they have a platform, they have something important and interesting to say. NOT.

How 'bout renaming it &quot

How 'bout renaming it "The Retch"?

And now for something no on

And now for something no one would ever expect me to say:

"I can't keep my eyes off of Hasselbeck's legs."

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MM,Naughty naughty....Same ol

MM,

Naughty naughty....Same ol' rogue you!

LOL!

Oopps. Busted by bigtimer a

Oopps. Busted by bigtimer again! :-)

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Hi MM,We have been hitting an

Hi MM,

We have been hitting and missing each other I guess lately....good to see ya!

Btw...isn't it getting to the evening ya pick up those flowers?

Snicker...chuckle....laugh out loud!

You have a good one friend.

What would reading NB be with

What would reading NB be without MM and BT?  No fun at all.

"He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere"          -Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, 4th Islamic Caliph

...better include yourself th

...better include yourself there kath!

Thanks.

  All you NB ladies could t

 
All you NB ladies could teach that "view crew" some class. Cheers to our NB chicks!

There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

I'll drink to that MM..

Most definitely MM...  Kathleen especially

Sure, I watch the MSM...     Through a pair of crosshairs.

Ditto's to that. She is an ab

Ditto's to that. She is an absolute Princess in the company of guppies.

bottom-feeding carrion-eaters

bottom-feeding carrion-eaters is more like it.

"He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere"          -Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, 4th Islamic Caliph

Sarc,You can't keep your eyes

MM,

You can't keep your eyes off Hasselbeck's legs? Well, neither can Rosie. You'll have to fight her...:)

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris,Rosie is no problem,

Chris,

Rosie is no problem, I'll just throw a pork chop out the door and close it behind her.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

You guys make me laugh... T

You guys make me laugh... Thanks.

Totally agree with the legs comment....

Dennis Miller's IQ...

Dennis Miller's IQ is probably twice the combined IQ of all 4 of those dimwits on the View. That includes Hasslebeck. She might be conservative, but she's dumb as a sackful of hammers.

Could you imagine an actual debate between DM and Rosie? How hilarious would that be? The only way to make it fair would be to do a frontal lobotomy on Dennis before the debate - that way they would have equal reasoning skills.

My Grandpa used to cross his

My Grandpa used to cross his legs like that.

yeah, but I don't think anybo

yeah, but I don't think anybody wanted to do him.  I'm sorry, only kidding, I had to say that, that was like a pitch out over the plate, I had to hit it out of the park. Ok I'll go away now, it's time for my meds anyway.  :)   Really though, does anyone outside of Liberal Looney Land really care what these absolute morons have to say? Ever notice that they are totally devoid of facts. They state their opinions and talking points as fact, but should be giving opinions on facts.

Why is it that EVERYTIME a liberal opens their mouth, I feel a sudden urge to hand them a roll of toilet paper?

Why are Republicans so cowardly?

They're okay with whatever Bush does, as long as he says he's doing it to "protect" them. Can't
they see by giving up their Constitutional rights.. The terrorists have
won. The goal of terrorists is not only to kill people, but to instill
fear in them, and make them change their way of life...by all accounts
Bin Laden has succeeded in doing this. We had people running around
buying duct tape, toothpaste being thrown out at airports and people
sitting in front of the TV watching to see what color the "terror
alert" was that day. I for one REFUSE to live in fear,
I refuse to give up my constitutional rights. I want to be vigilant,
but not paranoid, patriotic , but still question my government.
Republicans keep saying we can't leave Iraq until "the job is done"
Well lets see... the troops where sent to look for WMD'S they've done
that. They were sent to capture Saddam..They've done that, which means
that job was finished a while ago. Why didn't Republicans have a
problem with us cut and running from Afghanistan? Obviously with the
resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda..That
job wasn't done. Shouldn't we have moved every stone, rock and pebble
until we found the man responsible for 911? It's totally INSANE for anyone to think that Iraq war will make America safer. If anything it's just the opposite. FYI Bin Laden is'nt in Iraq..SO WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE STILL THERE? The former head of the "Bin Laden Unit" Michael Scheuer said
that "Al Qaeda is going detonate a nuclear device inside the United
States ... and we're going to have no one to blame but ourselves."

"The
war in Iraq broke our back in the war on terror," said the former
official, Michael Scheuer, it has made everything more difficult and
the threat more existential."

Scheuer,
a former counterterrorism expert with the CIA, is one of more than 100
national security and terrorism analysts who were surveyed this spring
for the nonscientific poll by Foreign Policy magazine and the Center
for American Progress, a left-leaning research group headed by John
Podesta, who served as White House chief of staff in the Clinton
administration.

Of
the experts queried, 45 identified themselves as liberals, 40 said they
were moderates and 31 called themselves conservatives. The pollsters
then weighted the responses so that the percentage results reflected
one-third participation by each group.

Asked
whether the United States is "winning the war on terror," 84 percent
said no and 13 percent answered yes. Asked whether the war in Iraq is
helping or hurting the global antiterrorism campaign, 87 percent
answered that it was undermining those efforts."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0630-06.htm

Why is rainlillie such a driv

Why is rainlillie such a drive by troll of the worst sort?

Yup.....as we here in the sou

Yup.....as we here in the south, "if ya can't stop, wave..."

Why? So simple...

Because she knows that if she hangs around and actually begins engaging in conversation with the NB Rightists, she'll get her ass thoroughly kicked, as she has before (to be quite blunt).

Remember: the greatest threat to naivelillie's health is critical thinking.

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

I normally don't like respond

I normally don't like responding to trolls but

The terrorists have
won. The goal of terrorists is not only to kill people, but to instill
fear in them, and make them change their way of life...by all accounts
Bin Laden has succeeded in doing this.

What makes you think Bin Laden really cares if you are frightened? His only goal is to consolidiate power over his followers, and guess what? Not really working out for him is it? As for Islamic extremism in general, its goal is to convert you, cut my head off, and so forth, not scare us, and guess what? It is nowhere close to accomplishing that. I guess you were a little confused by the misnomer 'terrorist'.

So, when did we leave Afghani

So, when did we leave Afghanistan? Did I miss that?

lillie...I see you jumped you

lillie...

I see you jumped your pad again....

I agree with what you are say

I agree with what you are saying; there is no way to win against terrorism. Notice I did not say "war" on terrorism. There is no "war" on terrorism. Vietnam, that was a war. World War II, that was a war. Iraq is a repercussion of the United States jumping into a conflict with no specific goals in mind. First Iraq, next Iran, then what? N. Korea? Then Venezuala? Then China? Not good.

"I agree with what you a

"I agree with what you are saying; there is no way to win against terrorism"

Your alternative is what? Surrendering to terrorism. You must be French.

"Iraq is a repercussion of the United States jumping into a conflict with no specific goals in mind."

The goal was to piss you off.

No, the alternative is to sto

No, the alternative is to stop blindly supporting interests that are hurting the United States. Look at China for instance: even theough China is a communist nation, we are still capable of working with China on a capitalistic level. The reason the Muslim community, the Islamists, Iran, etc. HATE America is because we blindly support Israel. Israel has its own country, has a very good military, has its own Democracy. They can take care of themselves. Just like China has become an extremely lucrative nation for the United States, so could the middle-east. You ask any muslim or islamic person why they hate American's and the answer is likely to include our biased support for Israel.

"You ask any muslim or

"You ask any muslim or islamic person why they hate American's and the answer is likely to include our biased support for Israel."

Ummm, so what? If they decide to hate us because of our support for England, should we bail on them too? How about Australia? "Should we say gooday mate, it was nice knowin ya" just because muslims don't like us being their friend?

Mostly moderate my ass. Mostly stupid is more like it.


Reminder: Don't forget to pay your taxes. 12 million illegal immigrants are counting on you.

MostMod,First off, China and

MostMod,

First off, China and the Middle East...Apples and Oranges. When's the last time you heard of the Chinese strapping bombs to children and sending them into a crowded marketplace? The Chinese are people who can at least be reasoned with. Not to mention the fact that they live in this century and haven't stopped the clock somewhere in the Middle Ages and they just happen to be doing us a huge favor by keeping their part of the world in check including North Korea.

As for the USA's continued support of Isreal, here's something that you need to get your moderate arms around. We don't allow dictator, terrorist countries to tell us who we can and cannot support. In other words, we don't give a crap what they think of what we do. Screw them all. Yes, Isreal can take care of itself which causes us to want to support it all the more.

Our support is far from blind. We see clearly the motives of Islamic radicals as well as counterfeit liberals such as yourself searching (may I say blindly) for reasons to blame their own country.

On Israel

Yeah, mostlyleftist, I have this thing for blindly supporting nations that have democratic institutions and governed by the rule of law (like Israel!).  I know, that makes me such a horrific human being, doesn't it?

If it weren't indicative of a mental disorder, I would find the entire Muslim world blaming ALL their troubles on a nation the size of NJ with 7 million people laughable.  Unfortunately, since this warped world view (which apparently you share) leads to the deaths of Israeli citizens all too often, I do not find it humorous at all.

Besides, Muslims still have other reasons to hate the United States...like the United States being where the Muslim world was around roughly AD 1000 (the top of the heap in world civilizations), the freedom we enjoy, and the fact that we see NOTHING wrong with women contributing to our economy, nor are we horrified if/when they decide to go down the street wearing skirts (in fact, I encourage that wholeheartedly).  Not to mention that they frown upon rampant capitalism such as that exhibited in the United States. 

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

We Don't Blindly Support Israel

Mostlymoderate(leftie)...

First off, how can you use such a username and then say all this drivel? Your post absolutely makes no sense. We do not blindly support anything, even Israel. We support Israel because of strategy, geography, and common interest.

Then you muddy your post even more with the following statement,"Just like China has become an extremely lucrative nation for the United States, so could the middle-east." How has China become anything of the kind to us? Yeah, they make a lot of our stuff and then they devalue their monetary unit so much that it shoots up the balance of our trade deficit with them. I wouldn't really call that an equivocal, beneficial relationship. Plus, China is no friend because they're not truly a democratic society (with less civil liberties that only Rosie would dream was the case in the US), only do what's in their best interests (North Korea) and do PLAN to become the one and only superpower in the world. They've even planted a lot of spies in our country to study American society and see which vulnerabilities they can exploit. Power and surface appearances mean a lot to the Chinese. Believe me, they're noting all of what happens to the US as a country and making the proper adjustments.

The real reason Muslims hate Israel is because of Palestine. Muslims feel that all the land that's disputed, including the sovereign territories of Israel, should be THEIRS. That's the dispute. Personally, I'm glad Israel was created right after 1945 as a haven for European Jews. That's the least the world could do for what it let happen (the holocaust).

Anyhoo, Muslims don't like us for an array of reasons...mostly because they're uneducated, not free to make their own choices, and are programmed to hate by many of their state schools and madrassas.

It's so easy to demonize Israel as the cause of problems in the Middle East. You gave it a casual, surface glossiness that really never deepened into actual analysis. Your demonstration of a basic understanding of foreign policy is severely limited and scary.

You call yourself a moderate but you're more an ignorant, uninformed liberal. Moderates weigh both sides of the issue. You seem to have developed preconceived notions of what is useful foreign policy and what is unwise foreign policy. Israel may be able to stand on its own two feet but how fair a fight do they have with surrounding countries united against them? C'mon...I know you can answer this for me, I know you can.

The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer.  Air Force Motto

emjem says: When your brain's stuck on liberalism it self-destructs.

Don't judge me before you kno

Don't judge me before you know more about me. I want the same thing as you do: to stop terrorists and to eliminate terrorism. Personally, I would love to live long enough to do business in the Middle East when it is democratic. I just don't see it happening if we don't eliminate some of the hatred for America. For every person we kill, there is a new generation of little terrorists that we have to deal with in the future. The whole cycle seems endless to me.

They will hate you regardless

They will hate you regardless whether you kill any of them.  This is the history.  Would you not like to know where those two quotes came from?  There is no cycle that any outsider is part of.

Well, if what you are saying

Well, if what you are saying is true, then we need to be a hell of a lot more aggressive than we are. More troops, more bombs, totally wipe them out. Kinda like that old saying, either $h%T or get off the pot.

Just remember, mostlyLeftist,

Just remember, mostlyLeftist, that violence does in fact solve lots and lots of problems.

As to the whine that we are somehow creating more terrorists: I suppose we can get rid of all terrorists forever by shredding the Constitution and dismantling the United States.  But I personally would much rather stick a bullet in each of their heads.  I do not care how popular/unpopular that makes the United States, for this is a matter of national survival, not a high school popularity contest. 

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

First Iraq, next Iran, then what? N. Korea? Then Venezuala? Then

First Iraq, next Iran, then what? N. Korea? Then Venezuala? Then China?

We can only hope! :-p

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing that seperates liberals from conservatives is that liberals are craftier and work without the hinderance of a conscience." --Lynn Wooley

Free,This guy is mostly moder

Free,

This guy is mostly moderate?

I suppose Rosie is mostly girly, Bill is mostly faithful and Helen Thomas is mostly human.

You must have a more open d

You must have a more open defininition of "human" than I do. ;-)

We entered Iraq with no speci

We entered Iraq with no specific goals?

Horses***.   These are the goals and they have ben since day one.  You don't have to agree with what is in there but to deny there were goals is simply dishonest.

What's not good here is your level of ignorance.  To accept the premise that there is no goal or strategy in this war is to believe propaganda which claims the Bush Administration is utterly incompetent.  the existence of the above linked strategy and goals is proof that these charges of incompetence are pure propaganda, lies, leftist drivel, to be devoutly ignored and scorned for the deception they are.

Moreover, there IS a way to win against terrorism. There are just no leaders in the western world willing to take those draconian measures necessary to end the terrorist threat.

I will read the link you sent

I will read the link you sent me. Might take some time, there is a lot there. Listen, I pray to God that I am wrong about Iraq. I just hate nothing more than all-out-war unless it is ABSOLUTELY needed.

How many beheadings, bombings

How many beheadings, bombings, mass murders, rapes, piracies, military conquests, genocides and so forth will it take before we all agree that the 'religion of peace' isn't?

Islam has been warring on everybody else now for 1400 years.  It isn't just about converting Jews and Christians.  World conquest to sharia is the stated goal of that religion.  It is not posible to live in peace with neighbors whose stated purpose is to erase your way of life and replace it with theirs, erasing you personally if necessary.  This is exactly the objective of fundamentalist Islam.

These quotes might help