When's the last time you saw an MSMer dispute a politician on the tenets of his own faith? It happened today on Good Morning America when George Stephanopoulos challenged Mitt Romney's depiction of a tenet of Mormonism.
Weekend GMA host Kate Snow noted to the "This Week" host that at a Mitt Romney event Friday someone called out to the candidate that he didn't "know the Lord." Snow asked George to what extent Romney's Mormonism might be a "big hurdle" for him.
Stephanopoulos: "Polls certainly show that it is. He faces a lot of skepticism from evangelical Christians. When I spoke with him, I asked him how Muslims might perceive the Mormon belief that Jesus will return to the United States and reign personally here for a thousand years."
GMA then rolled a clip of Romney saying the following: "Our belief is just like it says in the Bible, that the Messiah will come to Jerusalem, stand on the Mount of Olives, and the Mount of Olives will be a place where there's a great gathering, and so forth. It's the same as the other Christian tradition."Stephanopoulos: "Actually, we checked in with a Mormon spokesman who said that's not exactly true. They believe the New Jerusalem is here in the United States, in Missouri, and that's where Jesus is going to come."
View video here.
Story Continues Below Ad ↓
Just what was George's point? Is he concerned that Mormon theology would make Romney less appealing to Muslim voters in the U.S.? Or perhaps that it would undermine his effectiveness as president in dealing with Muslim countries?
In any case, ABC has now conferred with a religious spokesman for purposes of challenging a public figure on his religious beliefs. Should we expect to see ABC challenge pro-choice and pro-gay rights Christians and Jews with statements from spokesmen from their respective faiths? Will ABC challenge Muslim guests with statements from Islamic experts? Or does ABC limit its theological challenges exclusively to Mormons?
Contact Mark at mark@gunhill.net
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Comments Policy
This is the MSM Doing It's Thing
February 18, 2007 - 10:13 ET by ChasvsThis is what we can expect for the entire Election period. MSM bashing and discrediting the Republican candidates and promoting the Democrat candidate of their choice. They learned in the 06 elections that they can influnce the outcome of a National election and this time their going for the top prize! They will install a Democrat as President. Black or Female is what they are shooting for this time. Qualifications don't matter, except that they would have to be as Leftist as possible! Watch and see.
Mark, '...that's not exactly true.'? Good one.
February 18, 2007 - 10:21 ET by acaiguanaMark, '...that's not exactly true.'? Good one.
So, its not exactly 'true' that Christ was the son of God to Christians? Its not exactly true that L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology is a religion? Its not exactly true that Buddhists believe in a cosmic force unifying all things in the Universe? Its not exactly true that Jews are the 'chosen'? Its not exactly true that 'Mother Earth' is a belief among certain Native American people? Its not exactly true that the Constitution of the United States does not actually cover abortion? Its not exactly true that Romney isn't a poligimist?
I realize my examples twist the meaning of George S.'s point, but what is that all about? What I hear the Left saying now is that Tom Cruise should never have the chance to run for President because he is some sort of cultist nut case. Well, he is some sort of cultist nut case, but that's another topic.
Good catch here; this religous thing is so un-American. Of all the religous movements over the founding of America, Mormans are probably the most uniquely American in their religion. So what?
So what?
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
mark --Will ABC challenge M
February 18, 2007 - 10:25 ET by Jack Bauermark --
Will ABC challenge Muslim guests with statements from Islamic experts?
Here's an easy one George can ask as it relates directly to the faith of another Presidential candidate. But I'm not holding my breathe.
Muslim
February 18, 2007 - 12:15 ET by BBallleaperDon't hold your breath! Everytime I see this flaming pretty-boy with his smarmy, arrogant, pompous attitude I retch. How this absolute no-talent parlayed his silly lying job for Clinton into this position is beyond me. But he's only a gay little symptom of the entire Drive-By Media. They are ubiquitous.
Obama immediately came to m
February 18, 2007 - 12:27 ET by JDWObama immediately came to mind.
Then we have the new 'Koran man' senator with how many more in the future?
Christian vituperation has become the accepted news media political platform, no wonder the dems were able to swallow Clinton's obscessions.
JDW
Wounded skier. Corrections have been causing time-outs so mistakes will be made.
New pro-adoption dems, what about replacing abortions?
Or does ABC limit its theol
February 18, 2007 - 10:36 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsOr does ABC limit its theological challenges exclusively to Mormons?
Actually, no. They limit their theological challenges to Republicans.
They challenged Bush.
They will not challenge Obama.
They will not challenge Edwards.
They will not challenge Clinton.
Et cetera.
D
Want your elected reps to know what you think? Go to Congress.org, it's real easy.
You can also send faxes to your reps for free from NumbersUSA.
I agree, Mark.. exactly what
February 18, 2007 - 10:39 ET by rimskyI agree, Mark.. exactly what WAS George's point? Obviously Romney is relying on what the Bible says, and not someone else's stupid interpretation. In Missouri, eh? Maybe Branson? Sorry, couldn't help myself. I mean who the heck is this Mormon spokesman and what makes them such an expert on where and when Jesus will return?
Georges Point
February 18, 2007 - 16:30 ET by Jerry MackHis point is that we could not possibly elect a president that would upset the Muslims.
Is it me or doesn't the left
February 18, 2007 - 10:54 ET by Interested and concerned CDNIs it me or doesn't the left justify its focus on GWB's christianity because he's so open about it but I haven't seen Romney with a Mormon Sash on his arm?
Even as a non practicing Mormon, this infuriates me and will continue to do so until one, left of center, politico is asked a question comparable.
I'd like to offer up a bet to see how long it would take for someone in the nutroots commune to state that the LDS is as great a threat or more than islam... but then it may already have happened.
"Will ABC challenge Musl
February 18, 2007 - 11:17 ET by Galvanic"Will ABC challenge Muslim guests with statements from Islamic experts?
Don't expect them to scrutinze Muslim politicians the same way. They've let the freshman Congressman from Minnesota alone.
Or does ABC limit its theological challenges exclusively to Mormons?"
No, Stephanopoulous was targeting Romney specifically, because the Dems -- of whom little Georgie still belongs --- are wary of Romney's national appeal. Afterall, he won election to the Governorship of one of the most liberal states (Massachuesetts), and thus must have some appeal to moderates and liberals. Considering Hillary Clinton negatives are so high, a Romney candidacy poses a big threat.
The DP strategy is to separate evangelical Christians --- the so-called Christian Right --- from the GOP base, by spotlighting the "un-Christian" behaviors of Republican politicians. For instance, they held on to the Foley bomb until just before '06 Election, then dropped it and blamed the Speaker of the House and other for sheltering the secret. The MSM then trumpeted the revelation, and polled evangelicals to capture trends of defection.
Stephanopoulos' questioning of Romney's religious belief is indeed un-American, and solely intended to fuel the suspicions of Romney by evangelical voters who know no more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints than they do about Judaism. The Dems will continue to work this angle on Romney until one or more prominent figures express their outrage and scold the culprits.
Should we expect to see ABC challenge pro-choice and pro-gay rights Christians and Jews with statements from spokesmen from their respective faiths?
Given their track record, only to the Republican candidates. Do they ever ask Teddy Kennedy, or Joe Kennedy, or Mario Cuomo, to square their pro-choice stances with their Roman Catholic fate? Of course not. With Giuliani's popularity in the polls at this time, the Dems and MSM will constantly remind the GOP base of his pro-choice and pro-gay rights positions. We'll see line like: "Rudy Giuliani, a Catholic ex-Mayor of New York who is pro-choice and pro-gay rights . . . " and leave it to the target audience to draw the implication.
At least Romney had a chance to respond
February 18, 2007 - 12:45 ET by nkviking75At least Mitt had the opportunity to respond. Evangelical beliefs are routinely distorted by the MSM all the time by reporters who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. It would be like me criticizing a brain surgeon's technique.
Georgie Snuffle-upagus
February 18, 2007 - 12:56 ET by Dave RIf George Snuffle-upagus asks that Barack Hussein Obama guy questions along the same line as he querried Mr. Romney with, I will buy each of my friends here at NB a bottle of The Mcallan. The thirty year-old stuff. :-^)
Just kidding there, but the reality of it is that it would be a pretty safe bet, as George, a former Clintonista now pretending to be an objective news guy, is Liberal Democrat through-and-through.
I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman
I was afraid this was going
February 18, 2007 - 13:01 ET by DyneI was afraid this was going to happen, yet expected it at the same time: the media misrepresenting the church's beliefs because of Mitt Romney.
As a Mormon, I want to elaborate on this. Yes, we do believe that Jesus will appear at Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives at His Second Coming. This will be to save the Jews from their enemies and also at this time they will be forgiven for crucifying him, because Jerusalem will be nearly taken and the Jews are cornered. At the same time, a New Jerusalem (also known as Zion) will be established in the United States and Jesus will reign over the earth for 1,000 years prior to the last judgement with the Old Jerusalem as a spirital capital (religious) and New Jerusalem as a physical capital (law and order) as is mentioned in Isaiah 2:3.
These kinds of things drive me nuts because I'm always told, "You Mormons believe-" by people who aren't Mormons. I know what I believe and I learned these things for myself. And while some of these things may be "pearls before swine," I feel I have to clarify these things and help people better understand what we believe and why we believe it. Otherwise the ignorance that people have about the church and have had since its founding will only continue.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
Re:
February 18, 2007 - 13:13 ET by CABEStephanopoulos is an idiot. Romney said nothing contrary to Mormon belief. SINCE WHEN DOES THE MEDIA ASK DOCTRINAL QUESTIONS?!?
When the media is trying to
February 18, 2007 - 13:23 ET by DyneWhen the media is trying to discredit a person and an organization they don't like as both are against what it's trying to push on its agenda.
I'd like to know who that "Mormon spokesman" is because the church hires official spokesman, there are regular members like myself who serve as unofficial spokesmen, and there are those who either don't know anything about the church or are trying to discredit it by spreading lies and half-truths.
I changed my signature to include a link to the basic beliefs of the church. I'm sure that anyone who reads it will know more about it than the media.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
I hope that every true born a
February 18, 2007 - 19:32 ET byI am going to save that link to my 'favorites,' and refer to it in future writings on this topic. I highly disagree with everything it stands for, but it will be a nice reference site for future writings.
Maybe Romney's best response
February 18, 2007 - 13:42 ET by GalvanicMaybe Romney's best response would've been to turn the question around on the interviewer to expose his ignorance: "Well, let me ask you, George. What do you think are the tenets of my beliefs?"
The scrutiny of Mitt's faith
February 19, 2007 - 16:26 ET by kathleenirishThe scrutiny of Mitt's faith is a red herring. There's no scrutiny of the hypocrisy of the Clintons, or the Kennedys, misuse or abuse of their 'faith' as a tool to be used to get elected or to avoid closer scrutiny. Pathetic media.
"He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere" -Ali ibn-Abi-Talib, 4th Islamic Caliph
very unfortunate, dyne
February 18, 2007 - 13:56 ET by tumbler_2007Somehow Mormons have it that certain prophets are in their church who reveal various and sundry "truths" so that you can predict the future.
These are among those who wrote the Book of Mormon, an unauthorized addition to the scriptures. The same ones who taught you polygamy, and later taught you to reject polygamy. That Jesus isn't God, that the Catholic faith is all false, that you shall be made gods if you keep the so-called faith. And now you feel you can clarify these wonderful things.
These are not "ignorance about the church." This church itself spreads ignorance, IMHO. Would you suggest, now that I've unburdened myself that I go to your link and have these doctrines "clarified?" I'll do so if you think it'll show me how wrong I've been.
tumbler, you have just give
February 18, 2007 - 18:09 ET by Dynetumbler, you have just given every one of us a classic example of
the ignorance that prevails all over the place today because the things
you said aren't in harmony with what I and other members of the church
know.
I'll start at the beginning: 1
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. These
three persons comprise the Godhead, meaning they are three separate
individuals, but one in purpose, and all having the title of God. We
believe that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ are resurrected,
glorified beings with physical bodies of flesh and bones. The Father
is the father of our spirit bodies and He created us in His image, sent
us hear to earth to receive our own physical body so that we may gain
experience, live by faith, and return to live with Him in the
eternities and become like Him. Isn't it the wish of every father that
his children follow in his footsteps? Jesus Christ is our mediator
with the Father, Jehovah of the Old Testament, and Jesus of the New.
It is through his Atonement, death, and resurrection that we are able
to repent of our sins and return to the presence of the Father. The
Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, so that his influence may be felt
everywhere.
In the Old Testament, prophets were called to teach
the people about God and also lead them in His ways. The Bible is the
historic and spiritual record we have of those prophets in the Holy
Land. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ written
by prophets from the American Continent and what the Book of Mormon is
today contains an abridged version of that record by the prophet
Mormon. The record itself was preserved and hidden until the prophet
Joseph Smith was called to translate the record by the power and gift
of God. Not only that, but other revelations given to Joseph Smith and
subsequent prophets within the church are also recorded as scripture.
The ancient prophets of the Bible prophesied of future events by the
gifts of God, thus there is no valid argument to say that it can't
happen today. You say the Book of Mormon is an unauthorized addition.
I ask you to tell me who made it unauthorized.
Also I ask that
you show me where the church has said that the Catholic faith is
utterly false. That is not true. All faiths have a portion of the
truth given to them as far as they are able to understand. But to
discover the whole truth, one must search for himself and ask God if it
is right. James 1:5 was the Biblical verse that inspired Joseph Smith
to ask God himself. The events that transpired afterwards led to his
being called as a prophet.
As for the issue of polygamy, it was
not an issue of, "Okay, go out and get as many wives as you can." In
fact, less 10% of the members of the church conducted the practice at
the time because those who were called to take more than one wife.
Those who were called had to prove that they would care and provide for
their partners. As for why the practice was issued, I can say that I
don't know exactly why other than that God issued it as a commandment
of when to begin and when to end the practice. The scripture in Jacob
2:30 is the only thing I can cite: 30
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people [to practice plural marriage]; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [one wife, no concubines].
I
have covered each one of your points to the best of my knowledge and
ability. Now it is your turn to search and gain knowledge, whether it
simply be to read what I have linked or to read the Book of Mormon for
yourself. I again invite you learn for yourself so that you may make
well-informed decisions and come to a better understanding of what we
believe in. Even if you decide not to believe in them yourself, at
least you'll have a better knowledge of why we are who we are. I have
learned it all for myself and promise you that God is willing to share
these truths with you too. Until then, I can say nothing more as I
have done what I can until you take your turn.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
"Resurrected glorified b
February 18, 2007 - 19:42 ET by"Resurrected glorified beings." Did we all see this? This is saying that their god (father) and their jesus, are resurrected glorified beings --just men who attained their current positions.
Note: I got this info right from Dyne's post, that the father and jesus she believes in are "resurrected glorified beings" and even the one she calls "father" has a physical body with "flesh and bones."
Their god was not always a god, nor was their jesus --neither are the true God the Father Son and Holy Ghost.
For more info on the Mormon church, click here: http://www.debrajmsmith.blogspot.com/
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
"As man is, God once w
February 18, 2007 - 20:21 ET by Dyne"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." - Lorenzo Snow
I have one question for you, Debra. When you kneel to pray to God and look at Him in your mind's eye, do you see an entity without body, parts, or passion? Or do you see a loving Father who's willing to speak with you face-to-face as you commune with Him through prayer?
Also, I'm afraid your link isn't a very credible source of information. I'd like to point everyone to http://www.mormon.org and http://www.lds.org and the link in my signature (which is part of lds.org) for further information.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
Dyne,At least you do not refu
February 18, 2007 - 20:53 ET byDyne,
I disagree with you.
I do appreciate how calm, you are in discussing this. Such is always nice, as we learn this way.
These kinds of things drive m
February 18, 2007 - 14:02 ET by NewsbusterbrownThese kinds of things drive me nuts because I'm always told, "You Mormons believe-" by people who aren't Mormons.
As a Roman Catholic, I know how you feel, Dyne.
You should try being a Druid.
February 18, 2007 - 14:03 ET by acaiguanaYou should try being a Druid.
:-)
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Try being a Southern Baptis
February 18, 2007 - 16:30 ET by Eric TurnerTry being a Southern Baptist. Everyone but other Southern Baptists hate you because you are automatically defined as being "homophobic, misogynist, antisemitic, intolerant, buzz-killer, racist" and other things.
I say this kinda tongue-in-cheek. But honestly, in the north there are some Southern Baptists who keep a very, very low profile due to the lack of tolerance for Southern Baptists!
Bottom line? Religious groups all over experience intolerance to some degree in many places.
I'm not gonna try to convert anyone here. I just want a conservative government that recognizes my right to believe what I want to believe without making it illegal.
Oh, and that Southern Baptist dogma is the only correct one! :-P j/k
Aca, I kind of imagine it is
February 18, 2007 - 19:08 ET by MikeBAca, I kind of imagine it is difficult to find a virgin to sacrifice on mid-summer's eve these days.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Man, I'm in Acapulco... :-) ACA
February 18, 2007 - 19:11 ET by acaiguanaMan, I'm in Acapulco... :-) ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Soooo... impossible to find a
February 18, 2007 - 19:46 ET by MikeBSoooo... impossible to find a virgin to sacrifice?
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
I stand on my pyramid steps every morning and cry...
February 18, 2007 - 19:48 ET by acaiguanaI stand on my pyramid steps every morning and cry...
"Where are all my virgins to sacrifice?"
And the silence is deafening.
:-)
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Dyne,No disrespect meant...bu
February 18, 2007 - 14:15 ET by NeoConfirmedDyne,
No disrespect meant...but...
The whole multiple underaged wives thing sticks in most non-Mormon minds.
Well, Neo - I think you have accidently hit on a solid point.
February 18, 2007 - 14:21 ET by acaiguanaWell, Neo - I think you have accidently hit on a solid point.
I find it hard to believe the 'underaged' comment, but the differences in Morman 'sects' is as varied as in any other demonination. This 'unified' Morman front thing is a bit off base.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Aca,I'm sure that the 'undera
February 18, 2007 - 14:26 ET by NeoConfirmedAca,
I'm sure that the 'underaged' portion of my post is the fringe element of Mormon life. But after watching a couple of 20/20 specials detailing such a practice, that is what comes to mind.
I don't think 20/20 is very honest as a show... ACA
February 18, 2007 - 14:32 ET by acaiguanaI don't think 20/20 is very honest as a show... ACA
I'm sure we could find some real nut cases in every large group that would use the cover of the group for idiocy and immoral behavior. Jim Jones comes to mind.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Fair point and well taken.We'
February 18, 2007 - 14:39 ET by NeoConfirmedFair point and well taken.
We'll move on...
Thank you for clarifying, Dyn
February 18, 2007 - 20:46 ET by dahliatraversThank you for clarifying, Dyne.
A candidate's religion doesn't concern me overly as he or she is structurally limited on that front once in office. In Mitt's case, for example, if he was elected President and on January 21, decided that Mormon doctrine had to become the religion and law of the land ... well, he couldn't do it. It's called the First Amendment; it's called checks and balances. (Good job, Founders).
George S is going to get tough only on Republican candidates because Democrat candidates are right and Repubs are wrong. Has he interviewed Hillary yet? Can't wait. Let us know if you need some substantive questions, George. We may crash your server with the list.
frustrating to see political peers guillotined by press
February 18, 2007 - 14:13 ET by Pragmatic-ManWhy does anyone non-lib continue to put themselves on the chopping block of the network news? It is as if the conservatives march right into their own guillotine everytime they agree to let one of these liberal network reporters and commentators put them on their show. Is it that bad-press is better than no press at all? Frustrating to see our political peers continually bashed by the "non-biased" moonbat press.
Pragmatism always prevails... even Winston was once a lib.
Amen
February 18, 2007 - 21:30 ET by evilcontractorI don't know why it is so hard for Republicans to stay away from the lib press. It's sorta like watching drug addicts. They know they shouldn't go, but they just can't help themselves.
Speaking of religion, pro-c
February 18, 2007 - 14:50 ET by JDWSpeaking of religion, pro-choice, news media, and Muslims, who remembers reading anything about the Utah mall Muslim who went on a killing spree?
JDW
Wounded skier. Corrections have been causing time-outs so mistakes will be made.
New pro-adoption dems, what about replacing abortions?
i am lds ("mormon")
February 18, 2007 - 16:07 ET by buddyci am lds ("mormon"). i didn't hear it because it would not watch his show but george WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what romney said was 100% accurate. not one single thing he said was in error. christ will fulfill the biblical prophesy. lds people believe in the bible and what it provides as to christ's second coming. where you will think mormons strange is that we believe he will come in secret or private to meet with the lds prophet in the us before his open coming in open as foretold in the bible.
a typical liberal can't get things correct. another reason why unnamed sources or second hand sources are dangerous. it is easy to see how this belief would confuse.
i don't know what "mormon" spokesman george spoke with. probably senator reid who only goes to church to get re-elected in nevada and lds people there know it. something that won't work again when he runs. i wonder if reid does know what mormons believe in. by the way would george be concerned that the president of us SENATE has this same belief and how it might effect muslism?? no just a republican.
i know that we believe as catholics do that abortion is wrong and that reid supporting legislation to make it easier or to fund it is reids right but not something the church would think is proper.
romney should have pressed for the source.
george ows romney an apology. i would bet the question was planned out. no way romney could answer it without an issue. if he tried to explain the private coming before the public one is israel he might look strange. if he answered as he did they could pop him telling his, incorrectly he is wrong.
this is a swift boat attack conducted by the media. i can assure the question was researched prepared and planned by hillary and not abc.
I think it would be great if
February 18, 2007 - 16:53 ET byI think it would be great if they challenged all of these people's faith-beliefs. Faith-beliefs are the very fiber of a person. Learn about someone's faith-beliefs and you will learn what type of person they really are. For example, do a search on what faith-belief Judge Greer is and you will learn why he would not so much as go see Terri Schiavo for himself--to see if she was really alive (which she was.)
Faith-beliefs do come into play in our lives and those lives around us, as well as those in office. God speaks about wickedness in high places being exactly what we are up against.
Another example, had people bothered to learn more about Sarah Weddington back in 1973 they may have learned that she was taken under the wing of a group of Unitarian Universalist 'Church' women, who formed "A loving supportive alliance" with her and the other lawyer involved, over the course of a year that "enabled" them to bring the famous 'Row vs. Wade' case to the Supreme Court. And, some may recall, that it was Sarah Weddington who was Jimmy Carter's Special Assistant. --If you would like to learn more about the Unitarian Universalist 'Church,' including its involvement with the ACLU, click here: http://www.debrajmsmith.com/acluuuc.html
I say, let's hope this is a growing trend to get right down to the heart of who is in and or seeking an office in our nation. It is true that they cannot be forced to take a religious test, but we sure can ask questions before we vote and we can point things out to other voters as well.
Let's just hope that the media ask the same type of questions of Obama about his faith-beliefs, which started out as Muslim (he is now claiming to be a member of the UCC, which is just a sister 'church' of the Unitarian Universalists, and are both party to the UUA, which is heavily in with the one world order and the UN.--They are basically for everything from abortion to homosexuality.)
Your comment about the ACLU i
February 18, 2007 - 17:01 ET by ThisnThatYour comment about the ACLU is a good one. The source you cited made this comment: "I find the ACLU’s obvious fear of the Bible truly amazing. My heart giggles with delight at their fear of my God. What is the likeliness of this group ever taking such a stand against another faith/belief book?"
Ain't that the truth. Has the ACLU brought suit yet to the delivery of Korans to Gitmo prisoners? Have they demanded these books be banned? Or have they said that an equal number of Bibles also need to be delivered?
Still waiting....
ThisnThat,Exactly. I would lo
February 18, 2007 - 19:16 ET byThisnThat,
Exactly. I would love for them to respond to your questions.
The link that I cited, is an article that I wrote a little over a half year ago. And it still does make my heart giggle with delight over the ACLU's fear of the true God. They should fear Him, cause He will not be mocked.
prophecy
February 18, 2007 - 18:07 ET by m1xramProphecy is the issue with Christians. If new prophecy comes out and contradicts the Bible we assume that it, the prophecy, is in error because God is not. The Mormons have the same problem as Mohammad (in this respect only), they assume that God made one or more errors. Their new prophecy was to supersede the old prophecy in both religions.
Christians think editing or replacing the Bible is false teaching so we can't go along with it. In this country you have the right to believe what you want so we believe God got it right. For that reason I won't vote for Romney, sorry dude.
See Contradictions
Here's the Mormon stance: W
February 18, 2007 - 18:19 ET by DyneHere's the Mormon stance: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
For us, the Bible and Book of Mormon both stand as witnesses of Jesus Christ and his role as Savior. The Bible tells what happened, the Book of Mormon explains why (as well as giving the history of the people within that book) because the people described in the Book of Mormon effectively had the portions of the Old Testament from Genesis to Jeremiah, including accounts of prophets not found in today's Bible.
We also find not fault of God within the contents of both books. The title page of the Book of Mormon says, "if there are faults [within this book] they are the mistakes of men." The Bible itself has gone through hundreds of translations and transliterations that it's only natural that not all of it was done perfectly. There's also the fact that portions of it were omitted or changed on purpose. Hence the phrase, "as far as it is translated correctly."
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
The Holy Bible says in Revel
February 18, 2007 - 20:01 ET byRe: Dyne's post
The Holy Bible says in Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Romans 16:17-18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
Debra, if that verse applie
February 18, 2007 - 20:21 ET by DyneDebra, if that verse applied to the whole Bible, rather than just the Book of Revelation (which was written by St. John before the Gospel of John) after Deuteronomy 4:2, which contains very similar words, doesn't belong.
And in regards to the verses in Romans; we have never once attempted to intentionally cause divisions and offences to the knowledge that people have. Rather, we offer to share additional truth and knowledge about the nature of God and the mission of the Lord Jesus Christ.
However, I don't want to pull this thread off-topic if all you wish to do is attempt to disprove what I believe by using verses in the Bible (of which I am very familiar with too). If you want to continue this, feel free to send me a PM. But, in the end, no matter what I say will have no affect on you. Please read James 1:5 and humbly ask God.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
I dissagree with you.
February 19, 2007 - 19:01 ET byDyne,
I disagree with you. And that is okay. Thank you for the very cordial exchange. I learn a lot from calm exchanges like these. Many blessings to you and yours.
...DJ
dead sea scrolls
February 18, 2007 - 20:16 ET by m1xramThe Dead Sea Scrolls seem to indicate that current Bible translations are amazingly accurate. Christians assume (or believe) this to be true becase it is the work of God and not the work of men.
Yes, I've read the Articles of Faith but they do not address the contradictions and it looks like Article 3..
..disagress with John 3:16 in that it implies you can be saved by "obediences to the laws.." rather than faith in Christ.
I think article 2 denies man's sinful nature, i.e. we were born into sin.
That's not Biblical at all.
In this country you can believe what you wish, but I can't follow your path. Jesus said in a very unambigous way..
All of us can decide as we wish.
That's not Biblical at all.
February 18, 2007 - 21:03 ET by DyneThat's not Biblical at all.
Please refer to the following:
Deuteronomy 24:16 - The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Chronicles 25:4 - But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD
commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither
shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his
own sin.
and
Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
I'm sorry, but to say that something is not Biblical and have no way to prove it with the Bible isn't very credible.
I'd also like to add a verse from the Book of Mosiah, found within the Book of Mormon, that explains how mankind can overcome its sinful nature:
Mosiah 3:19 - For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive,
meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things
which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth
submit to his father.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
It's all about context, Dyne.
February 19, 2007 - 00:28 ET byIt's all about context, Dyne. And you are not taking these verses in context. For these verses to say what you are contending they say, Scripture would contradict. And true Scripture never contradicts, hence, you are not understanding the context in which the verses are in.
Reading the Bible, is not about searching till you find something that suits what you believe, but rather it is about searching till you find what it holds for you to believe.
However, one has to be a true believer in the true Christ to even begin to comprehend God's Word. The natural man receives not the things of God... And this is where the problem with your interpretation originate.
Debra,What do you not underst
February 19, 2007 - 00:43 ET by BlondeDebra,
What do you not understand about attacking others' positions, here?
If you keep it up, I shall ask the Masthead to revoke your posting priveleges.
It's fine to discuss things here, but not to attack.
And you're more than welcome to call me a troublemaker, again.
M1xram,Exactly...
February 19, 2007 - 00:19 ET byM1xram,
Exactly...
OH MY GOSH!! Stephanopoulos
February 18, 2007 - 19:52 ET by mostlymoderateOH MY GOSH!! Stephanopoulos is the biggest jerk of the entire week!! I watched this video and am really upset. Even though I am not a mormon, people blast that religion all the time while they politically-correctly NEVER blast the religions of judaism, islamism, muslimism, and any other "ism" you can think of.
Their are different variations of "mormons". Some back-country mormon-folk still practice polygamy...that DOESN'T mean your typical mormon does it.
QUESTION FOR STEPHANOPOULOS: When was the last time a protestant or catholic tied a pack of explosives to themselves and blew people up? Ask THAT question
Re:
February 18, 2007 - 21:02 ET by CABENever expected that so many like-minded fellow conservatives would attack my Mormon religion. It really saddens me.
cabeme too. i guess we need
February 18, 2007 - 21:29 ET by buddyccabe
me too. i guess we need to be more mindful of ohio, missouri and illinois. it is very sad. i have seen wave after wave of horrible, hateful and wrong comments about the church. some are so silly i have to ask the poster if he is really just making a joke. sadly he/they are not.
buddyc,I am appalled by the a
February 18, 2007 - 21:42 ET by Blondebuddyc,
I am appalled by the attacks I've seen here by our fellow posters.
Just so you know. It's disgusting. And disheartening.
It just goes back to the wh
February 18, 2007 - 21:47 ET by DyneIt just goes back to the whole ignorance issue. All we can do is correct the misconceptions as best we can. If people continue to make hurtful comments afterwards, that's just them exercising their agency.
As you said, buddyc, we can't forget Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois, but at least nowadays it's no longer legal to shoot a Mormon on sight in Missouri.
What do Mormons believe? You can find out here.
CABE, buddyc, dyne, I too am
February 18, 2007 - 22:10 ET by MikeBCABE, buddyc, dyne, I too am somewhat dismayed by some of the posts here. I left the LDS (Mormon) Church 40 years ago. I don't believe anyone has The Truth. But, I don't like for someone ignorant of what group X believes to tell others what group X believes. Most of the time they are wrong. The Mormon church has some very good teachings, and to this day I incorporate those teachings in my personal philosophy. The same is true of Catholics, Babtists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists, Jews, etc. They all have some good teachings, and they all have some error. And, as long as they don't try to convert me, or convince me they have The Truth, I'm okay with that.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
MikeB, I couldn't agree with
February 18, 2007 - 23:06 ET by mostlymoderateMikeB, I couldn't agree with you MORE! Nothing makes me sadder than a bunch of "holy know-it-alls" to pick on somebody elses religion. I happen to be a Lutheran; however, it does not mean I throw bible verses around trying to attack anyone elses religion. Most members of the Church of Latter Dad Saint's I have found to be remarkably genuine, upstanding, followers of the lord. Thank gosh for separation of church and state; too many people think its THEIR way or the HIGHWAY.
MikeB, I couldn't agree with
February 18, 2007 - 23:06 ET by mostlymoderateMaybe if you instead, ask why
February 19, 2007 - 01:00 ET byCABE,
Maybe if you instead, ask why your faith-beliefs should be off limits and would you really want any faith-belief to be off limits?
My faith-belief (born again Christian) came under much fire when Bush, who claims to be one, ran for office and has continued throughout his two terms. I had and still have no problem with it, as it is to be expected.
Debra,I don't question your f
February 19, 2007 - 01:06 ET by BlondeDebra,
I don't question your faith-based beliefs.
What I question is your attacks on other posters here.
If you care for specific examples....those who are of the Mormon faith. Or, those of the Catholic faith (tumbler...as much as it pains me to defend him).
So, would you kindly give it a rest?
If you care to include your faith in your posts...lucid reasons and such, rather than biblical quotes, that would be fine.
But your continued preaching, and screeching here, is totally offensive.
This is not a site for that. It is a site about liberal media bias.
Govern yourself accordingly.
I have to agree with Blonde
February 19, 2007 - 01:15 ET by Eric TurnerI have to agree with Blonde on this. I hate the word "devout" but for lack of a better word, I am a fairly devout Christian - attending church, having devotions, continual prayer, etc. But this is a political site, not a religious one. That said, I like that I can talk about religion here and not get attacked. Let's extend the same courtesy to others of various beliefs and faiths. Let's keep the focus on the liberals.
Blonde,For someone who goes a
February 19, 2007 - 01:19 ET byBlonde,
For someone who goes after me every chance she gets, you make no sense whatsoever.
It stands to reason that if I truly do what you accuse me of, that you would be a person I would surely demonstrate such behavior towards, yet I have done nothing back to you.
Again, I do not expect for you to view my posts any differently than you view them. You have a right to view my posts as you view them. And I have no need to seek to change your mind.
Spare me, Deb.You're preachin
February 19, 2007 - 01:24 ET by BlondeSpare me, Deb.
You're preaching is boring.
Go after you?
Hardly.
I'm merely informing you that you are totally inappropriate here.
Do you understand that?
If you care to preach...take it to another site.
I must say, though, you are t
February 19, 2007 - 01:26 ET byI must say, though, you are trying my patience. Have a nice evening, Blonde. This exchange is done.
I am fine with that which is
February 19, 2007 - 01:12 ET byI am fine with that which is that which is.
Sorry, you can not compare Pr
February 19, 2007 - 01:25 ET by Conservative VoiceSorry, you can not compare President Bush's treatment on his religious belief to Mit's. The media may have tried, but to most Americans they saw it as Christian bashing, not Mormon bashing. In fact many in my faith (Mormon) defended President Bush. You on the other hand think it is your duty to join in the mud slinging and call yourself an authority on my beliefs. I read through all the conversations you had with Dyne, and my hat goes off to her, as she did a very fine job maintaining her cool. Debra we have so much to gain by joining forces instead of attacking someone with the only reason being his religion. It truely saddens me that you spend so much time tearing people's beliefs down, and do not hear Blonde words of reason...she is truely trying to help you be taken more seriously here.
You do not see where you are
February 19, 2007 - 01:49 ET byC.V.,
You do not see where you are seeking to pull me away from my faith-beliefs and get me to conform to the type of faith-belief that would "join forces" with you in something that God would not want me to--in something that would call for me to deny my God.
I can love you as a person and care deeply for your well-being, and yet highly dissagree with your faith-beliefs and not "join forces" with you on anything that my God would not want me to. And you know you are special to me, David.
About a year ago, I learned about a verse in the Bible and I said a prayer to my Father in heaven and asked him to heal our land. I have total faith that God will do just that. My God calls for me to trust him implicably. And wavering from trusting Him, by joining with those who He would not want to me join with, as if He cannot heal our land if I don't, would be unfaithful. Then, I would be two-faced towards my God and insult Him.
The reason you find me to be unwavering, is because I am unwavering.
I have no problem with not joining forces with you. Why must you have a problem with me not joining forces with you? I am fine with you and Dyne or anyone talking against my faith-beliefs. Why must you have a problem with me speaking against yours?
You do realize that the whole reason for many coming to "The New World," was that they wanted to speak against that which they did not believe and for what they do believe. And to speak such as it pertains to government was a huge part of things.
I do have a suggestion, though. umm... well, if you cannot get someone to come over to your side of the street, who you wish to be on the same side of the street with, perhaps you could cross the street. I would welcome you, opened armed.
Debra, I am not asking you to
February 19, 2007 - 02:04 ET by Conservative VoiceDebra, I am not asking you to accept my religion....but you are so hell-bent in your crusade that your ears are not listening. No one here is trying to silence you. No one here is asking you to embrace people of my faith. They are asking you to govern yourself. They are asking you to find common ground and build against an even greater enemy. They are asking you, not forcing. You seem to forget this isn't the religion channel, this is a political blog. And while a person's religion does play into his politics, you seem to ignore the fact that there is more we can agree with and if you can just stop and listen you might learn something....United we stand, divided we fall. Politically we have far more in common than we are different. And umm, I have already welcomed you with open arms despite our disagreements.
I guess where we truely diffe
February 19, 2007 - 02:34 ET by Conservative VoiceI guess where we truely differ Debra, is I would take offense if someone did try and tear down your religion as you have done mine. I do not think it accomplishes anything other than people losing focus at who our true enemies are...and it breeds pride and self righteousness, hurt feelings and anger.
Who are our enemies? People who believe in the religion of liberalism, tyranny, the Church of Man, the Global Warming fanatics, or people who want to decay everything that is great about America -- land of Liberty and Justice, or people bent on destroying the family. That is what I mean by lets get united and stop the silly non-productive in-fighting on which religion is true.