Canadian Climatologist: Global Warming 'Fear Card' Being Used in U.S. Like 'Race Card'

Photo of Noel Sheppard.
By Noel Sheppard | February 14, 2007 - 13:58 ET

The name Timothy Ball should be familiar to many conservatives as one of the leading international skeptics of man’s role in global warming. He was interviewed recently by Bill Steigerwald of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, and once again made some fascinating statements about the media hysteria surrounding this issue (emphasis mine throughout):

As I tell audiences, the minute somebody starts saying “Oh, the children are going to die and the grandchildren are going to have no future,” they have now played the emotional and fear card. Just like in the U.S., it’s almost like the race card. It’s not to say that it isn’t valid in some cases. But the minute you play that card, you are now taking the issues and the debates out of the rational and logical and reasonable and sensible and calm into the emotional and hysterical.

Ball addressed the recent IPCC report by the United Nations:

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As soon as people start saying something’s settled, it’s usually that they don’t want to talk about it anymore. They don’t want anybody to dig any deeper. It’s very, very far from settled. In fact, that’s the real problem. We haven’t been able to get all of the facts on the table. The IPCC is a purely political setup.

Ball elaborated:

[T]he report is the end product of a political agenda, and it is the political agenda of both the extreme environmentalists who of course think we are destroying the world. But it’s also the political agenda of a group of people ... who believe that industrialization and development and capitalism and the Western way is a terrible system and they want to bring it down.

They couldn’t do it by attacking energy because they know that would get the public’s back up very quickly. ... The vehicle they chose was CO2, because that’s the byproduct of industry and fossil-fuel burning, which of course drives the whole thing. They think, “If we can show that that is destroying the planet, then it allows us to control.” Unfortunately, you’ve got a bunch of scientists who have this political agenda as well, and they have effectively controlled the IPCC process.

Ball addressed the idea of a scientific consensus:

The answer, first of all, is that consensus is not a scientific fact. The other thing is, you look at the degree to which they have controlled the whole IPCC process. For example, who are the lead authors? Who are the scientists who sit on the summary panel with the politicians to make sure that they get their view in? … You’ve got this incestuous little group that is controlling the whole process both through their publications and the IPCC. I’m not a conspiracy theorist and I hate being even pushed toward that, but I think there is a consensus conspiracy that’s going on.

What are some of the real facts?

I guess the best argument is that global warming has occurred, but it began in 1680, if you want to take the latest long-term warming, and the climate changes all the time. It began in 1680, in the middle of what’s called “The Little Ice Age” when there was three feet of ice on the Thames River in London. And the demand for furs of course drove the fur trade. The world has warmed up until recently, and that warming trend doesn’t fit with the CO2 record at all; it fits with the sun-spot data. Of course they are ignoring the sun because they want to focus on CO2.

The other thing that you are seeing going on is that they have switched from talking about global warming to talking about climate change. The reason for that is since 1998 the global temperature has gone down -- only marginally, but it has gone down. In the meantime, of course, CO2 has increased in the atmosphere and human production has increased. So you’ve got what Huxley called the great bane of science -- “a lovely hypothesis destroyed by an ugly fact.” So by switching to climate change, it allows them to point at any weather event -- whether it’s warming, cooling, hotter, dryer, wetter, windier, whatever -- and say it is due to humans. Of course, it’s absolutely rubbish.

[…]

Yeah, the world has been warming since 1680 and the cause is changes in the sun. But in their computer models they hardly talk about the sun at all and in the IPCC summary for policy-makers they don’t talk about the sun at all. And of course, if they put the sun into their formula in their computer models, it swamps out the human portion of CO2, so they can’t possibly do that.

[…]

[I]n the theory the claim is that if CO2 goes up, temperature will go up. The ice core record of the last 420,000 years shows exactly the opposite. It shows that the temperature changes before the CO2. So the fundamental assumption of the theory is wrong. That means the theory is wrong. ... But the theory that human CO2 would lead to runaway global warming became a fact right away, and scientists like myself who dared to question it were immediately accused of being paid by the oil companies or didn’t care about the children or the future or anything else.

What about rising sea levels?

Sea levels have been rising for the last 10,000 years. In fact, 8,000 years ago, sea level was almost 500 feet lower than it is today. It’s been rising gradually over that time. It’s risen very slightly in the modern record, but it has risen no more rapidly than it has in the last 8,000 years. One of the factors that people forget is that most of the ice is already in the ocean, and so if you understand Archimedes’ Principle, when that ice melts it simply replaces the space that the ice occupied -- even if the ice caps melt completely. What they do is they say if we estimate the volume of water in Antarctica and Greenland, then we add that to the existing ocean level. But that's not the way it works at all. But it does work for panic and for sea-level rises of 20 feet, like Gore claims.

By contrast to a global warming, Ball sees a coming ice age:

The other concern I have is that we’re totally preparing for warming. The whole world is preparing for warming, but I mentioned that we have been cooling since 1998 and the climate scientists that I respected -- particularly the Russians and Chinese -- are predicting that we’re going to be much, much cooler by 2030. So we’ve got completely the wrong adaptive strategy.

[…]

I think there is another ice age coming, because the major causes of the ice ages are changes in the orbit of the Earth around the sun and changes in the tilt of the Earth. Those are things we’ve known about for 150 years.

Ball concluded with his view of the hysteria surrounding this issue, and what should be explained to children:

I was talking to a group in Saskatoon and a woman came up after and she said, “I agree with you totally. We were having a party for my 7-year-old. I went into the kitchen and there was a bang in the living room. I went back and a balloon had exploded. The kids were crying and I said, ‘Why are you crying?’ And they said, ‘There’s going to be another hole in the ozone.’”

It’s completely false. There never were holes in the ozone, by the way. But when we start laying those kinds of problems onto shoulders that are very narrow, that is criminalSo I wouldn’t raise these kinds of fear with the children. What I would do with my children and grandchildren is what I’m trying to do with the public and say, “Look, here’s the other side of the story. Make sure you get all of the information before you start running off and screaming ‘wolf, wolf, wolf.’”

Sound advice indeed. If only the left and the media would listen.

—Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.

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I read this article earlier.

I read this article earlier. It is good. This guy has the answers to the Global Warming debate down to a T. I love his point of the "Global Warming" group changing to "Global Climate Change". Seems they can now blame any change at all on man by using this tactic. Warming, cooling, wet, dry and windy. His take on the IPCC is insightful as well.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I read on the   Drudge repo

I read on the   Drudge report  this morning that the    "meeting on global warming"  in Washington  DC   was canceled because of    "ice storm"  !

Dang  hate that "global warming "        dont     you?  :-^}  ;-))      w         v       I    AM PRO  AMERICAN  != 

 PRO LIFE!=           & PRO  VICTORY !                                 v    ww

ww..also AlGores movie was su

ww..also AlGores movie was supposed to show in St. Louis to. Canceled because of snow...What a riot this has been...

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

How utterly and completely hu

How utterly and completely humilating to the GW lemmings : ) !

I challenge these so-called "peace-activists" to organize JUST ONE MAJOR D.C. PROTEST AGAINST AL QUEDA by the end of 2007...

Global Warming on Mars

The global warming crowd or the climate change crowd as I have now just been enlightened ignores the sun and sun spot activity.  And what about GLOBAL WARMING ON MARS?  Let's ignore this as well since there is no way man caused this, unless those rovers we sent up there are not hybrids!

Red v. Blue Charity Link

That was great!Actually I thi

That was great!

Actually I think they are solar powered, but your comment made me chuckle out loud. 

"My comment to her was, I sai

"My comment to her was, I said, 'Look, let the kids get on with the party. Give them another beer. Let 'em enjoy themselves.'"

So Tim Ball gives bad climate advice AND encourages 7 year olds to drink. Figures.

Oh, and did you catch the lie about solar not being mentioned in the SPM?

"• Changes in solar irradiance since 1750 are estimated to cause a radiative forcing of +0.12 [+0.06 to +0.30]
W m -2 , which is less than half the estimate given in the TAR. {2.7}"

That's from the SPM. Oops.

At least he admits to being a conspiracy theorist now.

....encourages 7 year olds

....encourages 7 year olds to drink.

Wow, throat, the mental gymnastics you must have undergone to pull that out of the above article must have been painful in the extreme. At least it provided us with some insight into what may very well have happened to you. :-)

I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman

LOL, Dave R

LOL Dave, that is alot better than what I had. I seriously thought he had lost his eye glasses and misread something...what, I dunno???

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful to those too lazy to learn"

JAB,Yeah, that one sent me

JAB,

Yeah, that one sent me scurrying back through the article thinking maybe I had missed something, too. I even did a word search for"beer" just to make sure. I've heard of reading-between-the-lines and all, but that one takes it to a whole new level.

I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman

A prime example of why I do n

A prime example of why I do not respond to him/her, h/h is not a conversationalist in the least.

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful to those too lazy to learn"

Dave & JAB - the beer com

Dave & JAB - the beer comment was in the actual article linked in the blog.

 "My comment to her was, I said, “Look, let the kids get on with the party. Give them another beer. Let 'em enjoy themselves.”

I doubt the guy was really suggesting that 7 year olds drink.

fc,You are correct. My bad. G

fc,

You are correct. My bad. Guess I get the dunce cap for the rest of the afternoon.  :-(

I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman

Slide over Dave, we need a bi

Slide over Dave, we need a bigger corner. I still won't converse with the bleeding heart lib though, don't have the patience for it.

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful to those too lazy to learn"

No worries. I don't get into

No worries. I don't get into it with throatie anymore either. Just didn't want him/her coming back and saying anything. Keep up the good work.

very insightful

And some insight into the questionable methods applied in support of their lame arguments, in lieu of facts,  by the very scare-mongers Dr. Ball refers to in his article.  Very insightful indeed.

Halloween 2017. At the local

Halloween 2017. At the local haunted house. Throatwobbler jumps out of a dark closet screaming. You're all going to die in the next 10 years due to global warming. Bush is going to kill you.

Little children cry, scream and run in fear. Teens and adults laugh.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

My comment to her was, I said

My comment to her was, I said,..

And my comment to a kid worried about global warming would be, suck it up! When I was a kid we not only had fire and storm drills in school. We also had drills for what we were supposed to do when the Soviets dropped "the bomb" on us.

Seriuosly though, seems like every generation scares the heck out of their kids one way or another. Sad, but true.

Throatwobbler says: I'm really an idiot and I apologise for ...

Throatwobbler says:  "I'm really an idiot and I apologise for being so stupid and insulting and ignorant."

I for one, just want to say, Throatwobbler, that it is very refreshing to see you finally write, as you did in the post above, the truth on this site.

It is so good to see such a proven liar come clean.

Thanks again,

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Speaking of conspiracy theori

Speaking of conspiracy theorists....that is something you should know about....:-)

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

thwoatwobbwer--

thwoatwobbwer--  Wild thing you make my heart sing.

"changes in lunacy irradiance since 1750 are estimated to cause total insanity on the part of cwazy wibewals."

An ugly American is one who does not support his country.

Different argument, same agenda.

"But it’s also the political agenda of a group of people ... who believe that industrialization and development and capitalism and the Western way is a terrible system and they want to bring it down."

"The other thing that you are seeing going on is that they have switched from talking about global warming to talking about climate change."

The other thing that we see going on with the political agenda of those that "want to bring down" the Western way is switching from talking about the war on terror to Bushs' war in Iraq.  Different argument, same agenda.

Gees Noel,You can forget al

Gees Noel,
You can forget all about Heidi's Christmas card list and the voo-doo doll. She's porobably looking for a hit-man for you right about now. :-^)

The kids were crying and I said, ‘Why are you crying?’ And they said, ‘There’s going to be another hole in the ozone.’”

This is a very telling incident. I have friends who have experienced similar incidents with their children, and that includes my brother's kids, and his conservatism makes RR look like a died-in-the-wool New-Dealer. Our children are being literally brain-washed with this GW garbage. It is going on in our schools and on children's TV shows (remember Ted Turner's animated propaganda abomination Captain Planet and the Planateers?), and many parents seem to not notice or care. Clearly, these kids are not getting the other side of the story.

I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman

"One of the factors that

"One of the factors that people forget is that most of the ice is
already in the ocean, and so if you understand Archimedes’ Principle,
when that ice melts it simply replaces the space that the ice occupied"

That one sentence dismisses him as being credible on this subject. Noel stop quoting junk-science.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

kafka...you should give serio

kafka...you should give serious thought to changing you name to coo-cookaefer. That would give some real meaning to your posts.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Kafka - Obviously, you don't understand Archimedes' Principle.

Kafka - Obviously, you don't understand Archimedes' Principle.

Huh?

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

ACA, you obviously don't se

ACA, you obviously don't see the flaw in Balls reasoning.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

kaka...and what would that be

kaka...and what would that be?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Most of the ice is already in

Most of the ice is already in the ocean? forget it.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

So, in your infinite wisdom, o' great one kafka?

So, in your infinite wisdom, o' great one kafka?

Direct me to a resource that will back up your greater knowledge of ice and oceans and land mass ice and volumes and such so that I shall not fall into the pit of shameless ignorance and propagate same to the underlings about me who might be foolish enough to believe Dr. Ball's silliness.

Thanks in advance for all the links and papers to soon be forthcoming.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Oh please! Take your time a

Oh please! Take your time and do your own research. Or to make it a little bit easier: Ever heard that Antarctica is a contintent?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Well, I did. I read Dr. Ball's work.

Well, I did.  I read Dr. Ball's work.

So, since you think he's a nut case and are making assertive statements of so-called 'fact' here; then it is a burdon of proof on your part to back such statements up.

Wouldn't you have to agree?

But, you don't have any basis for your assertion, I assert.

So therefore next time you assert, you might want to think before you type such drivel.

I've come to expect inanity and drivel from you kafka, but you are only proving what I have always known.

You are an empty suit.  All hat and no cattle.  Big words and no action.  Maybe even a brick shy of a load.  Possibly a half bubble out of plumb.

Catch my drift, baseless one?

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Slowly it gets embarassing

Slowly it gets embarassing for you. Instead of simply using your geography knowledge falsifying Balls assertion you believe him. You should put as much critical thinking on his thesises than on everybody elses. Again Antarctica is a continent. What does this mean for the underground beneath the ice? So please refrain from making comments as seen above. Just apply a little bit of critical thinking skills.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Either you are being deliberately dense or you are offensive.

Either you are being deliberately dense or you are offensive.

My question to you was prove your point by providing sources.  You refused to do so.  You are still refusing to do so.

We are talking about Ice here in the Ocean.  Melting.  Volumes and mass.

Get off your rear end and find some backup for your disagreement with Dr. Ball's contention and the Archimedes' Principle, or give it all up.

See, here's the problem kafka.  You seem to think you can get away with throwing out an opinion that has no basis in fact or scientific evidence and then expect true critical thinkers to go, "gosh, kafka is right."

Well, my critical thinking skills tell me you don't have a clue about which you are talking.

And I'll take that to the bank today.

Keep on evading and excusing your tactics here, kafka, but it doesn't fly with me.

Thanks for all the fish.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Some room for discussion here?

This is interesting... (my bold) - but I was curious about the specifics of Ball's 8,000 ft note. (:~>

The Antarctic Ice SheetThe Antarctic Ice Sheet is a thick, ancient sheet of ice with a maximum depth of nearly 3 miles (15,000 feet). It is the iceberg 'factory' of the Southern Ocean. This icesheet contains over 5 million cubic miles (30 million cubic km) of ice. The weight of the Antarctic ice is so great that in many areas it actually pushes the land below sea-level. Without its ice cover Antarctica would eventually rise up another 1500 feet (450 m) above sea-level. The Ice Sheet is very gradually moving, in this case towards the sea in a radial pattern.

Ice ShelvesIce shelves are areas of floating, fresh water ice (formed from snow accumulation), attached to the major ice sheets which make up the ice cover of Antarctica. Ice shelves terminate where ice calves off to form icebergs.The Ross Ice Shelf is the largest covering an area of 150,000 square miles, and is about 500 miles across. Ice shelves typically range in thickness from 1000 feet near the edge to 3000 feet at the boundary between floating ice and grounded (land-based) ice.

One-tenth of a Google search gives anyone access to the data.

One-tenth of a Google search gives anyone access to the data.

It's a silly argument.  Kafka is only spouting inanities here.  He has no basis for his statement.  He seems to misunderestimate other's knowledge.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Please explain to me, why

Please explain to me, why you think the post above favors your point of view in our argument?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

I've neither the inclination, time or do I care enough to educat

I've neither the inclination, time or do I care enough to educate you.

You are demonstrably lazy.  You don't understand what you are trying to talk about here and I've demonstrated that beyond any reasonable doubt.

If you are really interested in Global Climate and the ice issues; or any other issues associated with Global Climate, then why don't you read something or take a science course; familarize yourself with some of the basic requirements of the Scientifc Method and other stuff.

But you come here an jump out and make statements from a purely emotional basis and then get all huffy when asked to back them up.

That isn't a debate.  That is demagoguery.  I don't particulary like demagogoues.

So, there you have it.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Ok so you can't explain it.

Ok so you can't explain it. Fine. Anyway do you have still in mind what this discussion was about?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Gary. Assuming the antarctic

Gary. Assuming the antarctic were to melt which looks unlikely at this time, it would rebound. Such a rebounding would occur over many thousands of years. Rememer north america and europe are still rebounding from the plistocene.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

danbo

It it were all to melt, that would also take thousands of years, would it not? Then, by rebounding, do you mean - re-freezing? Rebounding is an interesting choice of terms when speaking of naturally occuring climatic changes.

For the record, what I thought was interesting (Hmm, aca) in that  bit I copied (above) saying that the weight of the ice on Antactica was so heavy that it was pushing the land mass some 1500 feet below sea level. Makes me muse two points: 1. All of that 1500 feet of ice under water - when it melts will not only not result in ocean level rise - as water is denser than ice - and since that 1500 vertical feet of ice is not floating (rather is being held under water surface level) - when it melts (that portion of), sea level will fall -- as the ice displaced more volumn than water. 2. As this ice above - that ice that is weighting and sinking the land and ice below sea level - and the weight is relieved, with the land rising up again - will that not also assist in lowering sea levels.

Of course the relative timing between the two events above might be of critical interest here.  

Here you go acaiguana, proo

Here you go acaiguana, proof that the good professor is right and kaka is wrong. With the exception of East Antartica, the rest of it's ice (most of 80% of earth's freshwater) is in the ocean. That leaves part of 9% in Greenland (some also in the ocean), 2% in land locked glaciers. The rest in freshwater lakes and rivers, underground, etc. That said, 98% of earth's water is saline, meaning it is almost all ocean water already.

D

Want your elected reps to know what you think? Go to Congress.org, it's real easy.

You can also send faxes to your reps for free from NumbersUSA.

Thanks, Don'tFeedtheTrolls. I already knew that.

Thanks, Don'tFeedtheTrolls.  I already knew that.

But we are dealing with a guy here who like throatwobbler, reads something and then decides to write what he wants rather than what is true.

So it goes.

I just wanted to call him on this junk before someone who didn't know any better might actually believe him.  I'm pretty sure he's got the depth of a thimble on this stuff as well as on most of his stuff.

Doesn't matter because those pesky facts keep on being facts without any dressing or gravy.

:-)

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

So you misread the wikipedi

So you misread the wikipedia article (or some source else) as don'tfeedthetrolls did? Nice job!

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

The ice in the antarctic is g

The ice in the antarctic is growing. Not decreasing.

Tempertures in the antarctic are decreasing and have been for a while. Case in point. Where it's been dropping for about 16 years. All that increase in CO2 and droping tempertures. Or.

Totally seperate issue from archemedes.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”   H.L. Mencken

Kool. I was fascinated when

Kool. I was fascinated when I did a brief study of Antarctica. Freezing cold, with an active volcano, a mountain range, a desert (a large area in East Antarctica too dry for snow or ice), and some very hearty critters, just to name a few facts!

D

Want your elected reps to know what you think? Go to Congress.org, it's real easy.

You can also send faxes to your reps for free from NumbersUSA.

What do you think how big E

What do you think how big East Antarctica is? By the way read the site correctly: East Antarctica is included in the 80% stat.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Read this. Then come back.

Read this.  Then come back.  Rather, don't come back.

"The Antarctic ice sheet itself is separated into two parts - east and west (according to the Greenwich Meridian). To the east, the ice sheet is relatively stable and rests on a cratonic landmass above sea level. But, to the west, the ice sheet rests below sea level, is pinned in place by a series of islands and flows through ice streams to feed the major Ross and Ronne ice shelves. Modelling the response of this complex system to potential warming is very difficult, mostly because geologists have not been able to provide a full set of parameters as to the natural behaviour of the system."

That should give you a clue.  Then if you continue your research, you will find the volume of East Antartic ice is increasing rather than decreasing.

Kinda blows a hole in that idea huh?

And I'm really not interested in defending my point of view here.  I'd like to see you defend yours since it is the contrary idea.

ACA

....

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

Hey I know that the ice she

Hey I know that the ice sheet was growing over the past years. I know that some climate scientist believe that perhaps the growth of this ice sheet slows down or even stops the rising of the oceans. So if you think you can impress me, forget it. My criticism concerns the techniques used to critizise other climate scientists. Instead of saying that the 20 feet rising prediction is conservative (at least in some sense), he makes you believe it is the most extreme (which would be something like 50-60 metres). So if he wants to deal seriously with the matter he shouldn't go into the public and copy the style he is critizising. It is simply dishonest.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

By the way: Why do you provid

By the way: Why do you provide a link stating something Ball refutes?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

The link I provided in no way refutes Ball.

The link I provided in no way refutes Ball.

You can neither read nor debate.  You are useless to any increase in understanding the issues, which you contend Ball is wrong about.

You don't bother to use any source information for your statements.

I'm done with you, kafka.  Go peddle your BS somewhere else.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

I quote;The

I quote:

The
Antarctic ice sheet if melted would contribute enough water to the
globe's oceans to raise sea level around the world by some 70 metres,
causing most of the workers in the world capital cities to enter
the high rise office buildings at the 14th floor - from a boat.

It's your source.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Didn't bother to read your whole blog entry but....

Didn't bother to read your whole blog entry but....  SHUT UP ALREADY!!!

An ugly American is one who does not support his country.

Cites, backup, resources, links, papers??

Cites, backup, resources, links, papers??

Don't have any?

Well, I guess you lose.

ACA

...

Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."

"Too bad Ignorance isn't

"Too bad Ignorance isn't painful to those too lazy to learn"

To bad people believe every

To bad people believe everything fitting in their preconceived worldview.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Are you looking in the mirror

Are you looking in the mirror?

Ho Ho Ho "Hegel sa

Ho Ho Ho

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

ho ho ho santa

Lets see, Ball has credentials that can be verified. But you say he is wrong, with out any sources or credentials that can be verified. Maybe your Santa and you know all about ice for all we know. Until you prove differently, Ball is the winner of this issue. I can't really call it a debate as you appear unarmed for battle.

Consensus

"Consensus is not a scientific fact". That says it all about the liberals.

NEVER,NEVER trust a liberal

Copernicus

Because Copernicus' heliocentric theory of the planets defied 1,500 years of tradition, some historians mark the publication date of De revolutionibus as the beginning of the "scientific revolution.".  With the release of Al Gore's Fictionmentory "An Inconvenient Truth", the "scientific revolution" DIED!

I like Ball!He is right.Simpl

I like Ball!

He is right.

Simple as that.

Drill Often...Drill Everywhere! (just threw that in to irk some people...lol!)

The other thing that you are

The other thing that you are seeing going on is that they have switched from talking about global warming to talking about climate change. The reason for that is since 1998 the global temperature has gone down -- only marginally, but it has gone down. In the meantime, of course, CO2 has increased in the atmosphere and human production has increased. So you’ve got what Huxley called the great bane of science -- “a lovely hypothesis destroyed by an ugly fact.” So by switching to climate change, it allows them to point at any weather event -- whether it’s warming, cooling, hotter, dryer, wetter, windier, whatever -- and say it is due to humans. Of course, it’s absolutely rubbish.

This point says it all.  You have to conclude that Human activity's CO2 being the cause of warming is therefore incorrect (spurious causation?) - the two are not cause and effect.

"Why are the sea level

"Why are the sea levels rising, just because we are in a warming period?

Ball: Yes. We are in an inter-glacial. Just 22,000 years ago, which is what some people can get their minds around, Canada and parts of the northern U.S. were covered with an ice sheet larger than the current Antarctic ice sheet. That ice sheet was over a mile thick in central Canada. All of that ice melted in 5,000 years. There was another ice sheet over Europe and a couple more in Asia. As that ice has melted, it’s run back into the oceans and of course that’s what’s filled up the oceans.

But if you drilled down in Antarctica, you go down almost 8,000 feet below sea level. That ice below sea level, if it melts, is not going to raise sea level."

There's the Archimedes’ Principle at work. 8,000 feet of ice spead across who know how many square miles is a hell of a lot of ice, that, once melted, will make little or no difference in sea level across the globe. But the enviro-nuts don't tell people that. I wonder why?

The next one buying it. Thi

The next one buying it. This site is unbelievable.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Only when it comes to Your

Only when it comes to Your posts Sir ! Only when it comes to Your posts .

The next guilt-ridden whiner

So full of rage and anger...all because we are not as eager to destroy capitalism and the economy of the United States in the name of YOUR guilt.

Tell me something, if the Kyoto Protocol is such a grand idea, please explain why the United States is its most punished party, and why China, India, and Mexico, among others, exempted from it?  Or why tropical deforestation is not dealt with anywhere in that document?  What, is Chinese CO2 supposed to be better for the atmosphere?  Do you not care about Amazonia? 

Or is it ALL about destroying the First World to assuage your guilt?

"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

Nice rant. "Hegel says

Nice rant. But I'd like to see one reference to my posts.

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Translation: "Sorry, Unsane,

Translation: "Sorry, Unsane, but I can't answer your questions because I am too intellectually dishonest and lazy to even try. In fact, why won't you just stop asking questions and help me destroy the First World that I am so guilty of being a part of?"

kafka, just answering my questions would be nice.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???."  - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)

Kafka, do a simple experiment

Kafka, do a simple experiment.  Fill a glass about half full of water.  Put an ice cube in it and put a weight on top of it to immerse it in the water.  mark the water level on the outside of the glass.  allow the ice cube to melt.  Examine the water level on the glass.  Did the melting of the submerged ice cube raise, lower, or have no effect on the level of water in the glass?  Once you do the experiment, come back and apologize to Aca, et al, for having been such a dumb sh*t.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

mikeb sarcon

mikeb sarcon

Duh, maybe so, but there isn't a glass big enough for the Arctic Ocean, so there!

An ugly American is one who does not support his country.

PS

PS I think Kafka has a hole in his O  zone!

MikeB, do a not so simple e

MikeB, do a not so simple experiment. Take a whole continent (meaning their is some solid ground beneath) put some ice on it, with height up to 3 km (meaning above sea level), and then let it melt and watch.

Why does everybody assume that Balls premise that most of the ice is already in the ocean is correct?

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

Kafka

Kafka,

You ask: "Why does everybody assume that Balls premise that most of the ice is already in the ocean is correct? "

Because of the time element that Ball referenced. I think you've badly misinterpreted his point. He is talking about sea levels rising for the past 10,000 years. That corresponds with the end of the last Ice Age, correct.

As such, his point is that most of the ice since the end of the last Ice Age has melted. Do you disagree with this assertion? Do you believe that we currently have greater than 50 percent of the ice remaining on the planet that was present 10,000 years ago?   ns

Noel, Yes most of the ice ob

Noel,
Yes most of the ice obviously melted. But what Ball wants to refute is Gores and others claim that a melting of the current ice caps leads to a significant rise in sea-level. He is talking about the present caps when he argues that the 20-feet rise prediction is wrong because of most of the ice being under water. And this assertion is false. Just look at Greenland. The overwhelming part of the ice on Greenland lies on solid ground and if melted completely would cause a rise in sea-level by 7 metres (that alone would be the equivalent of gores prediciton). His argueing might be correct if you look at the most extreme prediciton of a rise of 60-70 metres if the Antarctic ice cap melts, but I don't know who did that calculation and whether Balls claim that this is neglecting Archimedes principle is correct. kk

"Hegel says somewhere all great events and personalities in world history reappear in one fashion or another. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."
The Eighteeenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852) sect. 1, Cf.

We've done your experiment fo

We've done your experiment for real, Mike.  Haven't the polar ice caps melted significantly?  By what, half? 

Now we have to measure:  what percentage of the total ice that represents and the corresponding rise in sea levels.  

Perhaps, just maybe, the arct

Perhaps, just maybe, the arctic ice cap has experienced significant melting.  On the other hand, the ice mass in the Antarctic continent has experienced significant increase.  In fact, the Antarctic ice mass had increased by several gigatons since the advent of all this global "warming".

I believe that 90% of the mass of an iceberg, or any sea ice for that matter, lies beneath the surface of the sea.  When that ice, that which is under the sea, melts, it does not, repeat not result in an increase in sea level.  In fact, a given mass of ice has a larger volume than the same mass of liquid water, therefore in the experiment which I outlined, the level of the water in the glass would have dropped by a small fraction.  So, there would be a balancing effect in sea level: the ice melting below the surface would result in a slight decrease in sea level, and the ice melting above the surface would result in a slight increase in sea level.

Now, where did the gigatons of extra ice in the Antarctic come from?  The only place it could have come from is from the moisture resulting in evaporation of water from all that ice that disappeared from the north pole.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Forgot about the building of

Forgot about the building of Antarctic ice.  We'd have to quantify the net ice melt around the world and look for a corresponding rise in sea levels.

I understand your theory.  One possible snag is that when earth has been cooler and glaciers have been bigger, sea levels were lower.

But even if GM is making sea levels rise,  1)  this does not mean it is man made (still waiting to hear an explanation for pre-industrial periods of global warming, for example)  and  2)  if it is man made, how can significant sacrifices by the United States - let's throw in Europe as well - compensate for the steady increase of CO2 generated by China and India?

Yes, there are other reasons for us to curb CO2 and pollution.  But let's do so for an established cause and effect, not a hysterical hypothetical. 

The AGW people have failed to

The AGW people have failed to show that human generated CO2 is predominantly responsible for temperature shifts observed this last century.  Their persistent inability to correctly model and predict the behavior of the climate system stands in mute testimony to this.  They always have an excuse when they fail. -- the Volcano made me do it!--   The models which correctly regress the last 40 year' data  always fail over the interval 1920-1945.

And lest we forget, it is now and has been for the last 10,000 years very much warmer than the Earth has ben over the last 2.5 million years on average.  What will happen if the Earth's climate begins to revert to its more normal state over this interval?  I think there might be some people who would think some extra CO2 would not be a bad thing.

I have read recently (don't r

I have read recently (don't remember the name of the article) that the United States is a net carbon sink.  That is, between our farmlands, forests and inland waters, more carbon dioxide is taken out of the atmosphere than the United States puts into it.  If that is the case, the United States doesn't really need to do a bloody thing about reducing its carbon dioxide emissions.

For that matter, carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, it is a fertilizer.  It is absolutely necessary for plant growth.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

"The next one buying i

"The next one buying it. This site is unbelievable."

Wow, a global warming enviro-nut has finally discovered something he finds unbelievable. Now that IS amazing.

I guess Dr. Ball has destroye

I guess Dr. Ball has destroyed his chances for a special Oscar this year.

Lawmakers Cancel Global Warmi

Lawmakers Cancel Global Warming Hearing as Mammoth Snowstorm Heads East

FOX News

This is CLASSIC ...

"House lawmakers canceled a morning subcommittee meeting on global warming as the mammoth snowstorm that has caused chaos across the Midwest headed east."

"The Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality hearing entitled 'Climate Change: Are Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Human Activities Contributing to a Warming of the Planet?' will be rescheduled at a later time [due to sub-zero temperatures and massive snowfall], the committee announced."

The hearing on global WARMING was cancelled because of FREEZING weather ... if that's not a wake-up call to the absurdity and insanity of the global warming myth I don't know what is.

__________

 Let's go to our coverage in Juneau, Alaska ... Tom, we understand global warming has taken a drastic turn for the worse where you are. Can you elaborate?

I sure can, Bill. Right now global warming devastation has affected the whole state ... we have record snowfall from the Aleutians to Anchorage to Point Barrow to Fairbanks all the way down south to us here in Juneau ... where the temperature is 70 DEGREES BELOW ZERO. Global warming is hitting us PARTICULARLY hard this year, Bill.

That's terrible news, Tom ... we're all going to have to work just a little bit harder to reduce our CO2 emissions ... we could all sure start breathing a whole lot less ... or we could double the carbon dioxide tax in the 5 states that haven't outlawed it - that'll bring some relief to you guys up there!

Maybe, maybe not, Bill ... what we really need is to triple the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol. Hold on, Bill ... I have a developing situation here ... Bill, I'm going to have to sign off because my left big toe just froze solid and fell off. DAMN YOU GLOBAL WARMING!!!

This is all sidestepping the

This is all sidestepping the issue that since 1998, the global average temperature trend is downward while CO2 is trending upward in contradiction to the CO2 theory.  Eight years folks is a trend!!!!  This highlights the flaw of computer modeling by extrapolation to the Nth degree.  Anyone remember the population bomb?  Another classic mindless extrapolation to the Nth degree.

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius