Political correctness is on the march again in the Washington Post sports section. In a column highlighted on the Post home page today with the headline "Sexuality Disclosed, Ignorance Exposed," sports writer Michael Wilbon uses former NBA player John Amaechi's coming out as gay as an opportunity to bludgeon the "ignorance" of anyone who would offer a discouraging word.
If we're lucky, the men and women who are both enlightened and emboldened will not only be supportive but will drown out the knuckleheads and Neanderthals and everybody who wants to slow the march of progress. Even one step away from tolerance, whether we're talking about race, gender, religious beliefs or sexuality, simply slows the march to the day when none of this stuff matters.
Wilbon doesn't seem to understand that he's showing no tolerance for many people's religious beliefs when he equates opposition to homosexuality with ignorance.
By the way, Amaechi's new book, Man in the Middle, is being published by ESPN Books, so Wilbon won't be having any "ignorance" issues with his ESPN bosses.
In the Detroit Free Press, Michael Rosenberg compares a hypothetical gay player with Kobe Bryant, who played a season accused of rape, and asked: "If that is how it works for an accused sex offender, why can't it work that way for a gay man?" Rosenberg does make a good point about the NBA and religion: "There are a lot of lifestyles in the NBA that don't jibe with any religion I'm aware of, unless you count hedonism, and I don't hear much complaining."
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center
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So, if I am a Christian and t
February 9, 2007 - 09:37 ET by King of the BritonsSo, if I am a Christian and the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, does that make me a knucklehead or a neanderthal?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!´´
--Patrick Henry
Literal Biblical interpretation
February 9, 2007 - 09:41 ET by dagdaWould you like to cite the place in the Bible where it says that homosexuality is a sin?
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
In Leviticus 18:22 it states,
February 9, 2007 - 10:12 ET by King of the BritonsIn Leviticus 18:22 it states, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."
In Romans 1:26 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
Do you really dispute that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin or do you have some other agenda?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!´´
--Patrick Henry
Not seeing the word
February 9, 2007 - 10:20 ET by dagdaI do not see the word sin used. I see abomination and shameful, but no sin. The Bible says a lot of things, many of them in conflict with other parts of the Bible. Are you saying the Bible is accurate in all things that it says? Or do you get to pick and choose those parts you want to believe and those that you do not want to believe?
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Can you first please answer t
February 9, 2007 - 10:26 ET by King of the BritonsCan you first please answer the question of whether or not you believe that the Bible does not say or otherwise indicate that homosexuality is a sin? Are you trying to pursue some other agenda? I will not get into a semantic argument with you regarding what specifically the Bible states is a "sin" or not.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!´´
--Patrick Henry
Abomination definition - a
February 9, 2007 - 10:41 ET by AshmanAbomination definition - a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit....
hmmmmm I am not the brightest guy in the world but that definition is pretty close to a discription of a sinful act. If God called something a abomination then I wouldnt be doing it.
I have a good friend who is a gay man and I love him like a brother but I dont agree with his lifestyle and he is fine with it. I will defend his right to live freely and be whoever he wants to be and defend him from violence. God does not bless his lifestyle and thatswhy God calls it a abomination...
did you all notice how Wilbon is so tolerant of peoples religious beliefs he complains about the one NBA player is vocal about his beliefs....The peolpe who scream the loudiest for tolerance are the biggiest offenders of being intolerant. Just look what happens when a conservative speaker goes on a college campus. He is shouted down and has things thrown in his face. When was the last time a liberal speaker on a college campus was unable to speak because he was shouted down and had pies thrown at them...NEVER
Abomination
February 9, 2007 - 10:43 ET by dagdaI think passage of McCain-Feingold was an abomination, but that does not make it a sin.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
The definition of sin as I'
February 9, 2007 - 11:03 ET by DyneThe definition of sin as I've been taught: Willful disobedience and open rebellion to the commandments of God (and there are more than 10).
Alma 39:5 states, "Know ye not, my son, that these things [fornication, adultery, sexual sins] are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?" (Emphasis and clarification added)
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
Too fine a point
February 9, 2007 - 11:16 ET by dagdaWe were talking about the Bible, not the Book of Mormon.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
...hey dagda, can you please
February 9, 2007 - 14:35 ET by TruthMonger...hey dagda, can you please cite the place in the Bible in conflict with other parts of the Bible? I can't seem to find it in there...
Thanks for all your help on the Bible studies, btw!!!
Dyne
February 9, 2007 - 19:38 ET by misterbillDyne thank you for the research. It certainly clarifies the issue.
"Truth exists, only falsehoods must be invented."
Sin is an offense against God
February 9, 2007 - 19:51 ET by tumbler_2007All sins are offensive in God's eyes. In essence, all are equally bad; whether murder (abortion) larceny or fornication, adultery.
The offense in homosexuality is indulging that llicit pleasure, against the commandments of God.
Not the plain orientation. A lesbian or gay man is capable of repentence. He can live chastely. In which case he won't be a sinful man. By the same token, when a woman commits adultery, it hasn't made sexual intercourse an offense against God. The sin is adultery, she has relations with someone other than her spouse. Even as great a man as David the King committed that sin. He later repented.
I think the Bible set up God
February 9, 2007 - 21:18 ET by saw the lightI think the Bible set up God to be the judge of sin, not dagda. The Bible says nothing about CFR.
"People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." - A.J. Liebling
Already told you
February 9, 2007 - 10:41 ET by dagdaI already told you that the Bible does not say it is a sin. I do not think I could be much clearer.
I think that a lot of people, yourself possibly included, cherry-pick the Bible to get the moral compass they think that others need. I think the Bible is rife with conflicting materials (including historical inaccuracies) and as such is hard to use as an authoritative source for anything.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
There was a group of people
February 9, 2007 - 11:07 ET by DyneThere was a group of people living in Israel who had to have every single little thing defined as what is sin and what is not sin. As a result, they began taking the law they knew so literally as to entirely forget its purpose and crucified the Lawgiver. The people in this group were known as the Pharisees.
Mosiah 4:29 - "And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit
sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot
number them."
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
fun group
February 9, 2007 - 11:31 ET by dagdaSounds like someone wants to take the fun out of life.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
I don't see any phrase in the
February 9, 2007 - 11:51 ET by DyneI don't see any phrase in there that says, "That shalt not have fun." I have plenty of fun in my life while still avoiding sin as best I can. Running, reading, bowling, golf, playing fetch with my dog, and listening to good music are all fun. And I'm sure many other people who post here could tell you the many ways they have fun while still living clean lives.
To paraphrase the same passage I quoted before, I'm certain there are numerous ways to enjoy life without living in sin, so many that they cannot be numbered.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
Okay, no problem, so you do n
February 9, 2007 - 11:23 ET by King of the BritonsOkay, no problem, so you do not believe homosexuality to be a sin. Here is the difference between myself and Michael Wilbon (and I suspect you): I am completely fine with your determination that it is not a sin. I will not call you a neanderthal or a knucklehead for it. God bless you. I disagree with you. I should not be called a knucklehead or a neanderthal because I disagree with you. I am not an impediment to the "march of progress" because I do not support the gay lifestyle.
BTW, I do not "cherry pick" passages and ideas from the Bible so that I can decide how to live my life. I happen to have faith and believe. I do not claim to be perfect and freely admit I am a sinner. I believe that it is clear in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, I will condemn it when I see it.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!´´
--Patrick Henry
What is good for the goose
February 9, 2007 - 11:36 ET by dagdaHere is the problem, as I see it. If you condemn homosexuality as a sin, then you have to be ready to be condemned by those who do not think it is a sin. If you do not publically condemn it, then there is no reason to publically condemn you.
As to cherry-picking. Do you believe the Bible is literal truth? And as a Christian, wouldn't it be better to take you guidance from the New Testament, rather than from the Torah?
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
Two things:He said he condemn
February 9, 2007 - 12:46 ET by MrSnugglesTwo things:
He said he condemns the sin, you say you will condemn him? thats ridiculous, misguided, and completely ignorant of all things christian.
second, romans is not in the torah, its the new testament.
you seem to be another gay apologist who wants to rewrite the Bible as some gay friendly book of fiction.
Just did some cherry picking
February 9, 2007 - 13:02 ET by TruthMongerJust did some cherry picking here:
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces..."
Matthew 7:6
"I think the Bible is
February 9, 2007 - 11:43 ET by The Wicked Conservative"I think the Bible is rife with conflicting materials (including historical inaccuracies)" ...Name one so I may cut it down for you. Please stop laboring under the belief that Dan Brown is a biblical authority. The Davinci code was fiction. Truth is any sexual act outside of heterosexual marriage is sin.
The only thing evil needs to succeed, is for good people to nothing about it.
nonsense, dear dagda
February 9, 2007 - 22:10 ET by tumbler_2007Forget the Bible for a moment. Just ask yourself if God sees it for a sin. It has nothing to do with the letter, it's the spirit that gives life.
The Church is correct in saying only the act of homosexual lovemaking is a sin. Love can be platonic, albeit dangerous, because it leads gays into temptation. Many do fall deeply in love. They must avoid the temptation as well as the sin. They have to live a chaste life.
Recently I read the review of a new biography of Oscar Wilde. He was converted to Catholicism on his deathbed, confessed and received forgiveness for his sins. In life he was a very scandalous personality, but also one of the most brilliant writers of his century. In fact, Wilde was a shameless homosexual and "bad boy," all his life. But he showed sparks of real spirituality at times. He seemed to love Jesus Christ deep in his soul. One of his remarks that comes down to us is, -- "Only Jesus Christ is ever able to see into a person's heart."
Why did he think so? Likely because he loved Jesus and wanted Jesus to love him. To forgive him. In the end Jesus did. We also know of a fabulous and great saint, who lived in sin for a long time and at last came to God and changed his life. Saint Augustine lived with a concubine as a young man, and even had a son with her. He knew it was wrong, a sin. But he resisted God. He clung to his sin. A famous quote of Augustine's is this "prayer" -- Dear God. Make me pure! But not yet.
All men (and women) are sinners. But the ones who are saved are those who confess their sin and their unworthiness. Today homosexuals & lesbians have seemingly decided to forget about sin. Deny their sins. That leads to sure damnation, Dagda.
The Bible also says, "
February 9, 2007 - 11:19 ET by DyneThe Bible also says, "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Thou shalt not kill," and so on. Yet the word "sin" isn't attached to any of these commandments, and yet we know that violating these commandments is committing sin.
Please explain how committing an act that is described as an abomination before God is not sin. If you continue to think that it is not then I promise you that you will fully come to understand the phrase, "No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God," in a first-hand and eye-opening manner.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
Sinning is for sinners
February 9, 2007 - 11:28 ET by dagdaI was taught that something is not a sin unless you think it is a sin and then do it. That is why we let crazy people off the hook. Given that the 10 Commandents are the base of sin you still have to believe that it is a sin for it to be a sin. It says "Thou shalt not kill." But we have exceptions for that. It is alright to kill to defend yourself, it is alright to kill to defend others. It is probably not alright to send minions to the meadows to kill people in the name of the Lord.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
I'll settle this...CLEARLY TH
February 9, 2007 - 12:59 ET by TruthMongerI'll settle this...
CLEARLY THE BIBLE SAYS THAT BEING GAY IS A VERY GOOD THING THAT WE SHOULD ALL SUPPORT...
We idiot Christians need to wake up and smell the coffee on this, dammit...
TM, Didn't you know swearing
February 9, 2007 - 15:20 ET by RunningBeerTM, Didn't you know swearing is an even worse sin than being liberal.
you aren't an authority dagda
February 9, 2007 - 20:03 ET by tumbler_2007Please desist from changing the meaning of sin to some other reprehensible act. It's a sin.
Sin isn't "attached" as if you could sin and be detached. It is the disobedience of God's revealed Will for us. You know His Will if you're a Christian. God will not be mocked.
The Washington Post goes round and round swirling in the liberal crapper. A once great news service now pandering to the most obnoxious and indecent lobby ever seen on earth. Even Sodom was cleaner than this place is today. I'm ashamed of our nation.
So 'splain to me how a guy
February 9, 2007 - 09:41 ET by dervishSo 'splain to me how a guy can make several million dollars as, at best, a mid-level NBA player, stand to make a couple million more on a tell-all book about his proclivities, and have a problem with tolerance? I'm sure Mr. Amaechi is crying all the way to the bank.
...everybody who wants to slo
February 9, 2007 - 10:10 ET by Dave R...everybody who wants to slow the march of progress.
Say what?
I find this a most curious statement given the fact that gays, with more than a little help from the DimLib media, have essentially reached “protected minority” status in many areas of the country, which has afforded them more “rights” than the rest of us enjoy. At some point, I believe they are going to push things too far.
In a few short years, when the effort to legalize sex with minor children gets cranked up among some of the “anything goes” lefties in this country (and you stupid tolerance-no-matter-the-consequences libs don’t even need to think about swerving in here and telling me that this is not where all this sexual tolerance BS is leading-look at what is going on in certain parts of Europe right now), I guess those of us who speak out against this will be labeled knuckleheads and Neanderthals.
I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman
Dave, I think your getting ah
February 9, 2007 - 11:46 ET by RunningBeerDave, I think your getting ahead of yourself on this sex with children thing. First they have to get the same sex marriage passed, then will come the outcry for plural marriages, then someone will want to marry their goat and that'll get passed. Only then will we see the introduction of legalized sex with kids. So see, there's nothing to worry about!
beer
February 9, 2007 - 12:47 ET by Dave RWell, maybe a little ahead, but I still think that is where this stuff is headed, as that is how it has progressed (regressed?) in the loonier parts of Europe. It doesn't take much effort to noodle this out linearly to its obvious conclusion. Pervs are the same everywhere, as far as I am concerned.
I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -Gen. William T. Sherman
I agree with you Dave, only a
February 9, 2007 - 15:17 ET by RunningBeerI agree with you Dave, only a matter of time. Glad you caught my sarcasm in the post. I thought I may had been to subtle.
"March of Progress"
February 9, 2007 - 10:17 ET by uc"March of Progress"? Another not so hillarious gay rodhams not so articulate attempt to change definitions more than laws. Most of the laws they are fighting against were written to preserve, for naturally in spirit concieved children, a system of laws that could keep them on a natural path towards survival of their souls/species/genes/name. What "progress" could be possible other than devolution. I shouldn't have listed "soul" above what with our "separation of church and state" but did for illustrative purposes. Until I see new laws drafted to the purpose and specific rights sought for and kept separate in meaning but open in discussion of civil rights I will get no closer to their side. Let an apple still be an apple in our laws.
Ted Turner said that GW is
February 9, 2007 - 11:14 ET by DyneTed Turner said that GW is the "single greatest challenge that humanity has ever faced." Of course we know better, but for a moment let's say that, within the next century or two, the oceans do rise and many of our coastal cities sink. What will humans do? They will adapt and continue to survive. However! Should every single human being right now decide to become strictly homosexual, then we would be the last generation to ever exist on this earth and bring about our own extinction in less than 100 years. And all of this would be done in direct violation of God's command to "multiply and replenish the earth." It is a sin, plain and simple.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
Even though I'm not very re
February 9, 2007 - 15:21 ET by Old EuropeEven though I'm not very religious myself I still believe in some form of Creator and believe that the Bible contains a lot of useful advice. But to say homsexuality is sin because it's in the Bible? All books often contain many accuracies but also blatant errors.
It's not sin because nobody is harmed in engaging in homosexual lifestyle! They are consenting people. They love each other! Isn't that sweet?You don't choose to be gay, just like you never chose to be straight. So what is so harmful about gayness? That they don't have a family? Many straight people have no family and I don't wanna be a family guy either. I prefer being single. Man, there are definitely worse sins that loving a same sex man or not procreating. Mankind won't die out.
old europe in favor of sin?
February 9, 2007 - 20:18 ET by tumbler_2007Is old europe in favor of man buggering man? That's stupid. All those activities are degrading to the human race, and God has expressed his hatred for those who do them. It doesn't matter what irreligious men think.
It doesn't harm anybody? Give us some more of your "useful advice". A sin that destroys two immortal souls ! That's not a blatant error. It's very plain. Men and women destroy themselves through immoral excess; they go to hell.
They can be forgiven; but only by repenting and changing their lives. God will forgive a gay who cleans up his act. But how can he ever clean it up when other sinners insist they aren't in sin at all? Before you can repent & receive pardon you must confess the sin ! Don't play games with God.
I am in favor of people choos
February 9, 2007 - 23:57 ET by Old EuropeI am in favor of people choosing freely the partner they want to have, be it gay, lesbian or heterosexual. I just don't see why it should be regarded as sin just because it happens to be in the Bible. There are many contradictory things in there. All sins are sins for a rational reason. I just don' t see the detrimental effect of homosexual acts. Nobody is harmed. But for you to suggest that it must be sin for no other reason than it being a sin because it says so in the Bible is just not reasonable. And I don't think gay sex is one of the deadly sins, is it? Or is it part of the ten commandments? No. Thus, I won't judge people only by a few lines that are virtually no more than footnotes.
From Wikipedia: "Sin i
February 10, 2007 - 00:05 ET by saw the lightFrom Wikipedia: "Sin is the term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that describes a moral rule or the state of having committed such a violation. In monotheistic religions, the code of conduct is determined by God."
Whether you see anything wrong with it or not, the Bible, the basis of Christianity, says it is a sin. All sins are deadly sins, since you cannot pass into heaven as a sinful person.
The Bible says many things, and Christians take it on faith that it is the true Word of God. Our faith guides us in these matters. Whether you agree or not is immaterial to my faith.
"People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." - A.J. Liebling
It's not a matter whether you
February 10, 2007 - 14:49 ET by Old EuropeIt's not a matter whether you agree or not. We are having a discussion on whether it should be a sin or not. You cannot take everything the Bible says literally without questioning it or the author. Thou shalt not kill is one commandment. So is every soldier killing in Iraq condemned to death? You need to show more circumspection. Regarding gayness as a sin is ridiculous as nobody gets harmed. Liars or fraudsters or rapists or murderers are sinners, but definitely no gay people!Tell me who gets hurt in a gay relationship? Nobody. There is no reason for it to be a sin. Interpreting the Bible affords some common sense.
sex between gays is LUST
February 10, 2007 - 19:54 ET by tumbler_2007Yes, it's a sin under Lust; one of the deadly sins.
It's a sin just like adultery, fornicating, living with a man or woman out of wedlock, and the other sins of the flesh.
You've made your point that "You don't see why--" but should that cause God any worry? God is the lawmaker, not we. How about Jesus Christ, who famously warned His followers:
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it away. Better to enter the kingdom of heaven with only one hand than to be cast into hell with both hands." --Jesus was talking about something serious, Old Europe.
I am a catholic. I worked w
February 9, 2007 - 19:18 ET by karris56I am a catholic. I worked with a gay man and a couple of gay women. I never told them how I felt about their lifestyle. That's none of my business unless they asked. I feel a church or a priest can can do this just like any other ' sin " or " abomination " from the bible. I practice the " he who is without sin cast the first stone " way of life . For instance I have a few friends who lie, some cheat on their wives, some steal. I do not scold them. Now if these same people wanted to make it law that this is o.k. then I have a problem.
I dont have a problem with civil unions because religion should not be an argument for law. I think most of the country has no problem with civil unions. I am not a homophobe and am offended anytime anyone on the left shouts this to be the reason against gay marriage. Marriage is just a piece of paper was the line when the left just wanted fornification accepted. They want that piece of paper now to say being gay is o.k. It's not .