John Edwards is retaining his attack-dog leftist bloggers. His campaign has a statement on the Edwards blog, and the candidate claimed "they have both assured me that it was never their intention to malign anyone's faith, and I take them at their word. We're beginning a great debate about the future of our country, and we can't let it be hijacked."
As anyone who's read the Kathryn Lopez smackdown on their blazing blog guns at Catholics (and Pope Benedict, the alleged dictator) knows, it's quite clear they intended to malign a faith. The subject emerged on CNN's The Situation Room Wednesday night, but the most disturbing part of the story appeared on screen. The graphic emphasized unproven allegations:
"Anti-Catholic" Accusation
What? Kathryn's beginning made the vicious anti-Catholic flavor of Amanda Marcotte's blogging very clear:
Q: What if Mary had taken Plan B after the Lord filled her with his hot, white, sticky Holy Spirit?
A: You’d have to justify your misogyny with another ancient mythology.This update on the Baltimore Catechism comes via Amanda Marcotte of the Pandagon blog in her "FAQ ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH’S ‘CRAZY’ TEACHINGS ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL." In it she explains that "the intent" of "mainstream Catholic teaching" on artificial contraception "is to make women suspect their gynecologists* are out to get them and possibly kill some babies for fun."
But CNN reporter Mary Snow's story only used a mild anti-Catholic joke, and a vicious anti-Duke-lacrosse-team blog to outline the case, omitting comments like those:
Well, Wolf, everybody believes the bloggers are provocative, as many political bloggers are. But one Catholic group says they go too far. And it's calling on John Edwards to fire them, not for what they said during the campaign, but in their past jobs.
(Video begins) On John Edwards' own Web site, it's called the first big test of the campaign. A conservative Catholic group took aim at two bloggers who work for Edwards, calling them anti- Catholic, vulgar, trash-talking bigots.
The blogs in question were written before the two joined Edwards' campaign. One of the postings that angered Catholic League president William Donahue said the church's opposition to birth control forces women to -- quote -- "bear more tithing Catholics."
WILLIAM DONAHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Don't use insulting language like this. This is incendiary. It's inflammatory. It's scurrilous. It has no place being a part of any kind of someone's resume who's going to work for a -- a potential presidential contender.
SNOW: Donahue points to blogger Melissa McEwan, who makes reference to President Bush's "wing-nut Christofascist base," and blogger Amanda Marcotte's entry on the pope and fascists.
Also gaining notice, Marcotte's writing that sarcastically chides the news media's coverage of the Duke lacrosse players who were accused of sexual assault. Her entry read -- quote -- "Can't a few white boys sexually assault a black woman any more without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair."
DONAHUE: It should be a message to everybody, in -- Republicans and Democrat alike. You had better carefully go through these kinds of things. Otherwise, you are going to get burnt in the end.
But when CNN is pooh-poohing the hatred in these blogs, they ought to be more explicit. Here's some more material CNN and Snow omitted.
I suspect Pope Ratz will give into the urge eventually to come out and say there’s no limbo and unbaptized babies go straight to hell. He can’t help it; he’s just a dictator like that. Hey, fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, the Pope’s gotta tell women who give birth to stillborns that their babies are cast into Satan’s maw....
Which all brings me to recommending this great post by Austin Cline at Jesus’ General about why authoritarian types are so damn interested in cobbling people’s sex lives and meddling around in people’s private sexual decisions, like in this case why the Catholic church is so interested in making sure that people can’t make the perfectly sound decision to limit their family size while enjoying a healthy sex life—either you’re going to have to forgo birth control or you’re going to have to feel guilty to the point where you fear you’re casting babies into hellfire, by their standards. It’s a way to disrupt people’s lives so the church can get more control.
If CNN can't recognize greet these passages as authentically hostile to Catholics, then they don't have the analytical skills of a high school freshman.
For her part, Marcotte identifies herself as not just anti-Catholic, anti-religious:
Because the fundies have gotten more aggressive, in other words, they’ve created an opportunity for anti-religious thinkers to flood the media with our point of view and also to get more aggressively anti-religious, not just arguing that fundies are wrong but that faith itself is fundamentally flawed and damaging.
PS: Austin Cline, the "general," is a "Draft Gore" guy himself, but he argues that "Authoritarian control over our sexual behavior inevitably leads to authoritarian control over our physical bodies, our emotional connections to fellow citizens, our psychological health, and thus also our lives overall."
—Tim Graham is Director of Media Analysis at the Media Research Center
Comments Policy
John Edwards
February 8, 2007 - 16:08 ET by d1carterDoes this mean that John Edwards is writing off the Catholic vote?
not to worry
February 8, 2007 - 16:15 ET by tumbler_2007Edwards can still count on the simpleton vote.
V - Edwards now depending on the Muslim vote
February 8, 2007 - 17:35 ET by pearlV - Edwards now depending on the Muslim vote
Edward's Two Americas - Christian and Non-Christian. Good luck with that, Johnnie boy.
V for Victory (when will we declare victory in Afghanistan?)
Well, you know, Tim, they j
February 8, 2007 - 16:18 ET by motherbeltWell, you know, Tim, they just have to say it wasn't their intention to insult the Pope or the Catholic faith.
It's just like punching someone in the face and then saying it wasn't your intention to hurt them.
I come in here every day to r
February 8, 2007 - 16:30 ET by futbolisgreatI come in here every day to read up on newsbusters, but I seldom have the time to post as I did just a few months ago, but this is a subject I feel very strongly about since I am a practicing Roman Catholic.
It never ceases to amaze me how the left claims to be so tolerant and open to everyone's views, but yet they are so intolerant of anyone that disagrees with them or tells them that their actions and life they are leading are completley wrong.
I can only imagine the uproar from the left and the media if a right wing blogger had been hired by a Republican Presidential candidate who wrote disgusting blogs about homosexuals.
You guys need to go into John Edwards blog and see how people that are posting about this actually support these intolerant and hateful women and are actually upset that Edward doesn't have a spine to stand up to the right-wingers. Quite disgusting!!!
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Hey FUT - welcome back. How i
February 8, 2007 - 16:34 ET by florida_chadHey FUT - welcome back. How is the new job going at school?
Hi Florida Chad, It is going
February 8, 2007 - 16:42 ET by futbolisgreatHi Florida Chad,
It is going great, been in the position for 6 months and it is good. The only downside of it all is that i have to deal with Liberal professors all day long, but I put them in their place. :)
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Hi futbol...Where did you put
February 8, 2007 - 16:47 ET by Clear thinkerHi futbol...
Where did you put them, Gitmo maybe?
Nah, Gitmo is way too nice fo
February 8, 2007 - 17:31 ET by futbolisgreatNah, Gitmo is way too nice for some of these hate-america professors. Too much luxury in that place. We need to send them to a Turkish prison, or even a French prison which are both 100 times worst than what you find in Gitmo.
Just know that some of these crazed out professors do believe that wrapping an Israeli flag around a Muslim terrorist is torture. Most of them don't mind Iran having a nuclear weapon and most of them believe that Israel and the Vatican are not legitimate countries.
I didn't know this, but there is a left wing movement that is pushing hard for the UN to not recognize either of these countries. It is scary.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Fut, don't hurt their feelings. The backlash can kill ya.
February 8, 2007 - 16:50 ET by acaiguanaFut, don't hurt their feelings. The backlash can kill ya.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Nah, Aca, the president of th
February 8, 2007 - 17:21 ET by futbolisgreatNah, Aca, the president of the school is a Republican and he is pretty active in the political world and he and I get along pretty good.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
their place is in the unemplo
February 8, 2007 - 16:52 ET by florida_chadtheir place is in the unemployment line.....heheheh
Keep up the good work FUT
Nah, I usually have to slap t
February 8, 2007 - 17:18 ET by futbolisgreatNah, I usually have to slap them around with the facts and then they sit down in awe that a person with only a Master degree can outwit and outdebate their Ph.D behinds. It is funny.
You know it is amazing how many of these Ph.D professors start their rebuttle to my facts with, "But I saw in the nightly news that..." I always direct them to books, blogs, websites like newsbusters, etc, etc.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
And another common thing for
February 8, 2007 - 16:39 ET by HumanEventsAnd another common thing for these trashy DemocRATS to do is say, "I regret if my comments caused anyone offense." So they are not admitting they were wrong or out of line. Just that if people were upset then they are "sorry" they took it that way. Because, as you said, it was "never their intention."
I still think HiLIARy is the most repulsive Dem. But boy are a lot of 'em like John Edwards, Algore, and Harry Reid running a close second. This party is just hideous.
Holy Cow, am I prescient or
February 8, 2007 - 18:32 ET by motherbeltwrong comment post
Imagine for a moment that a c
February 9, 2007 - 12:14 ET by Tom PaineImagine for a moment that a conservative candidate had hired someone who made an anti Muslim comment. We'd still be stting through the 12 part special on the CBS Evening News
This simply relegates the Edw
February 8, 2007 - 16:26 ET by spiderdanThis simply relegates the Edwards campaign to the septic tank of history.
A millionaire lawyer, employing nutroot fanatics, lying through his teeth about the "wholesomeness" of his appeal to the body politic.
For legitimate Americans, this is a wonderful development. Let's hope Edwards hires a few more of those drips.
I HATE Liberals!
February 8, 2007 - 16:27 ET by ChasvsThey are EVIL incarnate! I guess they are a good argument for ABORTION! At least that limits the number of liberals born each year!!!
sign: no fishing off dock
February 8, 2007 - 16:50 ET by Conservative in the Artssign:
no fishing off dock
Action:Tear it down and burn
February 8, 2007 - 16:59 ET by bassndudeAction:
Tear it down and burn it in the camp fire..:-)
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
is Edwards channeling again?
February 8, 2007 - 16:46 ET by Conservative in the Artsis Edwards channeling again?
The wrong done was not that
February 8, 2007 - 18:03 ET byThe wrong done was not that someone spoke against the teachings of Catholicism or the Pope; I myself speak and teach against both--here in America speaking against any faith-belief should not in and of itself be frowned upon. The wrong done, was 'what' was said. It was just vulgar. If I am understanding this correctly, John Edwards could have it removed from the blog. If he does not have it removed, he will not only alienate Catholics from voting for him, but even people like my self, who appose the catholic teachings on a whole would not vote for someone who is okay with such vulgarity. (Though, I would never vote for him to begin with.)
Why do you feel the need to a
February 8, 2007 - 18:43 ET by SamwiseWhy do you feel the need to appose(sic) ? Disagree seems to be a better position. Oppose implies that you are actively working against something. Why would you oppose something that does so much good for others. No one is forcing Catholicism on anyone (as opposed to Islam). Just say "it's not for me" and move on. Time will tell if it was the right decision or not.
Why do you feel the need to a
February 8, 2007 - 18:43 ET by SamwiseWhy do you feel the need to appose(sic) ? Disagree seems to be a better position. Oppose implies that you are actively working against something. Why would you oppose something that does so much good for others. No one is forcing Catholicism on anyone (as opposed to Islam). Just say "it's not for me" and move on. Time will tell if it was the right decision or not.
Well, the best way that I can
February 8, 2007 - 20:53 ET byWell, the best way that I can put this is that it is part of my faith belief to oppose* that which is not biblical. However, I love the people. We can oppose one's belief system and still love the person. And I acknowledge that you feel a person should just say, "it's not for me." But, my faith belief tells me to do more.
DebraJMSmith...You speak and
February 8, 2007 - 19:56 ET by futbolisgreatDebraJMSmith...
You speak and teach against the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church? WOW!!
You are right, it is ok to speak against or for whatever you want, that is your right, given that you take responsability and ownership of what you say, which most Liberal don't.
But teach against the Church and the Pope? so, would you be ok, would Liberals be ok if schools, professors, teachers, etc taught against homosexuality, taught against abortion, against evolution? NO!
Incredible the hypocrisy of the left.
Sorry Debra, it is wrong to slander anyone or anything, what these two hateful women did with very vulgar language is slander the Church and the Pope!!! They not only used vulgar language, but they also lied about the teachings and stance of the Roman Catholic Church.
Furthermore, if we Roman Catholics were as evil as you and these other two hateful women think we would be doing what Muslims do when anyone dare speak publicly against Islam, burn and destroy property and kill people!
Why aren't you and these two other hateful women speaking and writing against Islam. Islam is against the pill, against abortion, against homosexuality, against anything and everything the left and for that matter the right in America stand for....so why oh why do left wingers defend Islam?
If Muslims had their way homosexuals and abortionist would be put to death, women would be legally raped and never leave home for work.
I thought left wingers were for women's right? So why does the left embrace Islam if they care NOTHING about women's right?
The fact is that many people attack the Roman Catholic Church because the Church will tell you that your way of living is wrong and no one likes to be told that they either shape up or else. At the same time, the Church teaches us to be compationate, loving and to not hate anyone. Example, I don't hate homosexuals at all, I know that God loves homosexuals as much as He loves heterosexuals. Homosexuals are as human as heterosexuals. Now, go ask a Muslim if a homosexual is a human being?
while you are it, go ask a Muslim if a woman can enter Heaven?
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
if in fact, and when
February 8, 2007 - 20:24 ET by tumbler_2007If and when DebraSmith is really accurate, truthful and justified in attacking the Catholic Church, she will be doing nothing reprehensible. She should shout from the housetops.
If her words calumniate Catholic doctrines, are false or dishonest; she'll not only brand herself a bigot, but also a heretical Christian. How do I know?
It's based on what the apostle Paul says very emphatically in Galatians, 1 :6 through :9
Any deviation preached as gospel from what they've already received through the words of an apostle; even if they hear it from an angel of light is anathema. Damned. I would caution any free-lance minister that every word ever taught about Christian faith and morals by the Catholic Church has been the teaching of Christ's holy apostles. You can't deviate from that Gospel for any reason (or you are anathema.) Paul said it, I believe it, and I'm passing it on to you. This is not my opinion, it's written in the Holy Bible.
The Catholic church was not f
February 8, 2007 - 21:21 ET byTumbler,
The Catholic church was not formed till late in the 4th century. Therefore Paul was not a Catholic, neither was Mary or Peter. You are correct about:
Passage Galatians 1:6-9:
"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
Teachers of true Catholicism, do just this. They come with a different gospel.
Keep the true faith, Debra
February 9, 2007 - 00:34 ET by tumbler_2007"Not formed till late in the 4th century" / Absolutely false.
Catholic is from the Greek word meaning "Universal". The Church as Paul found her had already faithfully spread the Gospel since 33 A.D., the feast of Pentecost. On that day the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father & Jesus Christ upon the apostles. (Acts 2, :14 to ;41; and in verse :42 we see Holy Mass described, "Communion of the breaking of the bread." ) -- So much for the 4th century. All these events took place with and amidst the apostles in the Catholic Church . . . 33 AD --
Since Catholic means universal, note how Jesus founded His Holy Church, saying "Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven (speaking to Peter & the apostles) and whatever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven," Heaven and earth THE UNIVERSE -- authority to both bind and/or loose placed in His Church; an universal Church! Heaven and earth is the universe, Debra. One Katolika--Catholic Church, founded there on Peter, the Rock. Mat 16,:18 to :20
--In fact the Emperor Constantine was received INTO the already 300 year-old faith, as a convert. Peter and Paul and the first saints and martyrs had already been martyred 2 and 1/2 centuries before Constantine converted. He came into Christ's Church at that time, he never "formed" a thing. He was influential, of course. He was Caesar! But the Church had her Pope and Magisterium to shepherd Christ's faithful. Keep in mind Jesus only founded this ONE Church! Constantine was not a pope! He wasn't even a priest.
I hesitate to criticize your own faith because it would embarrass you. But you can't be allowed to misrepresent the Church and her apostolic faith without protesting. I'm sorry. God bless you and keep you from all harm, give you His blessings and grace, Deb.
Good try Tumbler, but it's a
February 9, 2007 - 01:13 ET byGood try Tumbler, but it's a no-go.
Oh, and I hate to burst your "Our [Catholic] Church is 'The Church'" bubble, but 'the church' is made up of all 'True' believers. I believe you are referring to "the Catholic church.'
Leave it to God, Debra
February 9, 2007 - 01:38 ET by tumbler_2007Dear Debra,
I can tell your pride is undoing your charity. Settle down?
No, it isn't for you to tell anybody what the Church Christ founded IS, nor what a "True Believer" is. You aren't even a true believer. To be a true believer, you first must reject the gospel peddled by men. False prophets. (Gal 1, : 7-9) That was called anathema by Paul, and your Gospel must be from the holy apostles. Not from a private scriptural interpretation you've been taking for the truth. Private interpretation of scripture is bogus interpretation. Listen to the Church; "Be still and know."
Hey Tumbler, you know I love
February 9, 2007 - 01:44 ET by Chicago RepublicanHey Tumbler, you know I love you and all, but I can't help but picture Dana Carvey in those owl-eyed glasses on Saturday Night Live when I read your posts. You're not really the Church Lady, are you? Its kinda funny, as I read your rebukes I see you referring to me and other Protestants as sock puppets of Satan. Please tell me that's not reality.
"Aw, what's this? A letter from Chicago Republican. Well, isn't that special?"
Wull, thanks, Chicago Pal.
February 9, 2007 - 02:56 ET by tumbler_2007You sure think of the nicest things to blab. I appreciate your good will. Thanks!
Just so long as you acknowled
February 9, 2007 - 14:46 ET by Chicago RepublicanJust so long as you acknowledge, Tumbler, that I only blab when I'm trying to be funny. For incessant blabbing, see some of the Leftists that frequent this site.
This is also from the woman
February 9, 2007 - 03:24 ET by terrigThis is also from the woman who sees no need for Chaplains in the US Military. Having never needed the services of one she probably doesn't see the need for it. Although she thinks she's smart by putting James Madison in her blog concerning the Chaplaincy Corps. However, they are there to help in whatever way the can. The fact that you are NPC and now anti-Catholic is not for me to judge. You've had your own bad experiences but your hatred for the Church is something that you should keep in check.
Roman Catholicism deviates fr
February 8, 2007 - 23:12 ET by fosstenRoman Catholicism deviates from the Bible in almost every one of its 37 doctrines, from the catechism to purgatory and from baptism to praying for the dead.
Anybody who wants to read a detailed account of each doctrine and how it compares with the Bible, please feel free to read here.
Tumbler will no doubt attack me or the author, since that is his style, but the information in the link clearly and decisively repudiates and devastates his statement that "every word ever taught about Christian faith and morals by the Catholic Church has been the teaching of Christ's holy apostles."
Nothing could be further from the truth. What he says is so false it must be deliberate - nobody could be that ignorant.
Watch closely how Tumbler will clearly ignore the information, and instead attack either me or the author. FACT - he cannot deny the truth of the information, as it is crystal clear.
fossten...I have read your
February 9, 2007 - 00:43 ET by ww thumperfossten...I have read your post and read the link. I agree 110%. Yes I know tumbler will go into one of his "famous " fits of anger and call us all names but i agree with you . ww v I AM PRO AMERICAN !=
PRO LIFE!= & PRO VICTORY ! v ww
no need to bother fossten
February 9, 2007 - 01:09 ET by tumbler_2007I have no need to dispute with fossten. He tells us all the stock falsehoods over again. I informed him once before;
Even his beloved Bible has its certification of genuinely inspired on the authority of the Catholic Church. Nobody else produced it on earth for the Christian faithful. Catholic bishops, priests monks and the Pope gave us the canon of books that comprise the Holy Bible. It was only they who weeded out all spurious books. Not protestant scholars.
Until about 1500 all the copies of the Bible were reproduced from their old manuscripts HAND-COPIED by Catholic monks and priests. At the time there were no rival churches anyplace in western Christendom. The first protestant copies only came to light at LEAST 1,400 years after the original scriptures had been written by the evangelists. --Gutenberg, the maker of history's original printing press was a Catholic.
A very telling point to consider: Nowhere in the scriptures does Jesus instruct His followers to read or even write any scripture. He never said "Blessed are the Bible scholars, or Bible Christians." --You were deceived by so-called Reformers into thinking the Bible is our sole rule of faith. The CHURCH is every Christian's Teacher and mother. Jesus says, "If he refuses to hear the Church, let him be to you as the heathen and the publican." Matt, 18, :17--
I'm not concerned with pleasing or impressing fossent, or Debra either. I'd love to be their friend. Nor have I the burden of proving the Catholic Church is the first and Holy Church. She certainly is, her myriad saints and martyrs are all witnesses. I follow them and Jesus Christ. God is my witness not fossent, nor any free-lance evangelists. All free-lance evangelists are false ministers. They vary in substance and merits; from Rev. Jim Jones of "Kool-Ade" fame (Jonestown Guyana) to David Koresh of the Branch Davidians to Billy Graham, an upright and sincere Christian (on the wrong side of the track; nevertheless a very good man.) Dr Graham and the late Pope John Paul II were well acquainted and became warm friends. Many God-fearing protestants are good souls and have merited God's love and the respect of every Catholic. (Not characters such as the devious mr. fossent, however. He's an enemy of the gospel and of Christ's Church, I fear.)
My Holy Bible, the KJV, is ar
February 9, 2007 - 01:21 ET byTumbler,
My Holy Bible, the KJV, is around DESPITE the Catholic church. My Holy Bible does NOT come down through the Catholic church or its bible. You see, heaven and earth shall pass away, but God's Word will live forever. Not even the RCC could stop God's Word from getting to me. And the RCC will not stop me from preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Pride goes before a fall
February 9, 2007 - 01:45 ET by tumbler_2007You speak from false pride, Debra. Silly woman BTW; a woman is not supposed to preach. You aren't ordained in the least way in succession from Christ's apostles. You're a free-lancer; one of the BLIND leading the Blind, all going into the ditch.
The Holy Bible is from God to His Church, to the world. Even the "reformers" relied on Catholic schools, Catholic teachers, and Catholic editions of the New Testament. King James II was no apostle. He was a heretical monarch. That's who your leaders were: heretics and turncoats who abandoned the faith. (I know the truth hurts, I'm so sorry.)
That is a great site, fossten
February 9, 2007 - 01:22 ET byThat is a great site, fossten. I have learned a lot from it over the years.
Why can't you and Fossten jus
February 9, 2007 - 03:34 ET by terrigWhy can't you and Fossten just be happy with your own faiths. I really see no reason to denegrate anyone's faith. I am happy to be a Catholic but glad you two are not. I am happy that you're whatever you are and that should be that. I really find it annoying that you two must take it upon yourselves to denegrate a religion. We have enough hatred in this world, that I think you should try to stop denegrating others religions. If you cannot respect the fact that others have different beliefs than you, then you are pathetic people. No one from the Catholic church is trying to force you into a Burka or cut off your head. Peace out.
Nobody's denigrating anything
February 9, 2007 - 08:44 ET by fosstenNobody's denigrating anything. Tumbler made a false statement about my religion and my Bible, and I corrected her/him. It's nothing more than that. The Catholic Church is true to itself more than it is to the Bible. Go ask your priest, he'll tell you the same thing. He'll encourage you to read the Bible, but he won't point you in the right direction, and he knows you won't do it.
I repeat: The reason I responded to Tumbler is because he/she attacked all religions which are NOT Catholic by attempting to spread falsehoods about the history of the church. If he/she wants to say that Catholicism is a separate religion from fundamental Christianity, which it is, and admit that the Bible is at variance with the Catholic church, which it is, then I'm fine with that. But don't lump me and all the others in with it. THAT is religious intolerance and denigration of another's religion.
Fossten, I will agree with yo
February 9, 2007 - 12:07 ET by futbolisgreatFossten,
I will agree with you on this, the Roman Catholic Church is NOT Fundamentalist. Not even close.
But I vehemently disagree with you on the Bible part. The Bible is central to the Roman Catholic Church. Have you ever gone to a Catholic Mass? We read from the Old Testament and from the New Testament, three different readings, with the Gospel reading being the most important and then the priest gives a Homily explaning how to live our lives according to the Bible.
The Bible is NOT a varience in the Catholic Church.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Fut,I like and respect you, a
February 9, 2007 - 13:32 ET by fosstenFut,
I like and respect you, and I don't want this to get out of hand.
Having said that, I will now answer your post. I have been to Catholic Mass before. I am familiar with the rituals and the teachings, and I am familiar with the beliefs. I know the Bible inside and out and have read it through some 6 or 7 times. Can you say that also? Being told by a priest during mass what to read is no substitute for doing your own research.
If you are interested in the points of conflict between the Bible and the Catholic Church, I would be glad to discuss it with you. If you feel that we cannot do so without getting defensive or offended at each other, then we should not proceed. I say this as a peer, not as a condescender like Tumbler.
There are clear and obvious differences between the Catholic church and the Bible. It doesn't make you a bad person; in fact, I think you are a great guy, and we've had good conversations in the past. Please don't think this is any kind of personal slight or attack on Catholics. I must stress yet again that I was merely responding to Tumbler's false assertion and unlike him/her I am ready to back up my statements with facts based on Scripture.
Well, it sure comes across
February 9, 2007 - 12:40 ET by terrigWell, it sure comes across as denegration to the Catholic Church. As I said, I'm glad you're happy in whatever or no religion that you choose. I have always said that I believe it's more important to live a good life than those who go to church and then can't wait to run you down when they're leaving the parking lot. Tumbler is a prime example of that type of person who probably attends church everyday, yet calls those he disagrees with a racist and me one step from the Klan of all things. I just wanted to respond more really to Debra but you inserted that website where "she's learned a lot" that just live and let live. We all know Tumbler for what he is but don't lump him with all Catholics just like Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, et. al. are representative of me either.\
Happy Aloha Friday
Show me where I said "Ca
February 9, 2007 - 13:41 ET by fosstenShow me where I said "Catholicism sucks." All I said was that Catholicism is at variance with the Bible in 37 areas. The only way that could be denigrating is if you view the Bible as the final authority in your religious beliefs. If that is true, wouldn't you be interested in doing your own research? Or don't believe a word I said. It doesn't matter. I was not attacking anyone personally like Tumbler does.
Believe me, we Baptists and you Catholics are all the same in the eyes of the left - we are hated. Don't get a persecution complex from anything I say unless I target you personally, which I won't do.
Besides, if I were really going to denigrate the Catholic church, I would bring up all the molesting priests and the Inquisition and all the other problems the church has had. But I didn't do that.
An excerpt from an email to Rick Jones
February 9, 2007 - 01:39 ET by misterbill"Subject: Thanks for helping me denounce catholicism."
This is the only part I copied. It is obvious what the goal of the writer was. So why are you Fossten and Debra intent on denigrating the Catholic church? What is the importance of that to you? I am not trying to start an argument, I am truly interested. What harm has been done you? I am a non-practicing Catholic, but a Catholic none-the-less. I believe it is A true religion. I do not spend my life trying to (appose) oppose Episcopalian, Lutheran , etc.) I am very happy to co-exist with these Christian religions in peace and harmony. I would not say a disparaging word about them. Were either of you Catholics at one time? I could readily understand your desire to challenge the Church if you were. Were you not, then I am puzzled. Please help me here.
"Subject: Thanks for helping me denounce catholicism." I read the rest of the email and while I do not agree with the writer, I can understand his feelings.
PS Debra, if you truly meant appose versus oppose then it is inconsistent with the rest of the text you entered.
I meant to say, "oppose.
February 9, 2007 - 01:53 ET byMisterbill,
I meant to say, "oppose." I just fixed it.
As for the rest of what you posted: I fully acknowledge your position. I however do not share how you feel.
Debra I never thought I would
February 9, 2007 - 12:28 ET by misterbillDebra I never thought I would be in a discussion of this nature. I have always held that Christianity was, overall, good. I was never concerned about Protestantism and any sect within it. I believed we all held the same core belief. That Jesus is the Son of God and through him we can find eternal salvation. You said, "I however do not share how you feel". That is fine but you did not answer my questions, and , of course , you do not have to answer. In my post, I asked why you feel compelled to challenge Catholicism. Help me out here--I am just at a total loss as to why one Christian attacks another Christian's religion. I am not trying to have an argument about Church teachings,. I will demur on any point you address. I simply am asking you why YOU feel compelled to do it.
I would prefer to end it here, as the purpose of NB is truth in news reporting, not arguments about religion.
The thread that we are postin
February 9, 2007 - 23:19 ET byThe thread that we are posting on has to do with what was said against Catholicism. My original posting on this thread was stating that even people like myself who are against the teachings of Catholicism would not like the vulgarity of what was said on that other blog. I was trying to say that vulgar is wrong, no matter what one's faith-belief is.
I know you want me to answer you question. Let me put it to you this way; believe that that many Catholics are true Christians, I do not see Catholicism as a true Christian faith. I see Catholics who come to be truly born again, as true Christians despite Catholicism.
Debra
February 10, 2007 - 17:31 ET by misterbillThanks for answering. I am sorry you feel that way. I guess I am a man who believes that all Christian religions teach salvation through Jesus and all members of the Christian faiths to be Christians.
Enough said, I respect your opinion.
"Truth exists, only falsehoods must be invented."
Let's not get into hyperbole
February 9, 2007 - 08:48 ET by fosstenLet's not get into hyperbole here. All I did was respond to Tumbler's false statement and correct him/her.
By the way, a religion cannot be "A" true religion. That denotes that there are many truths. There is only one truth, and that is a logical principle. If you say that there are many religions that God accepts, then that is a statement that describes your belief, but then you cannot accurately use the term "true religion." I'm not picking on Catholicism here, I'm just picking at a point of logic.
Read my response above.
Please explain my hyperbole
February 9, 2007 - 12:13 ET by misterbillPlease explain my hyperbole. I simply asked why you felt compelled to denigrate Catholicism. If you prefer to accuse me of hyperbole rather than answer my question, I can accept that too. I just simply do not understand (forget about our discussion) why any Christian attacks another Christian religion.
And you are correct about "A" true religion. I was simply trying to show that I , personally, feel that there are many roads to God and I do not agree that there is only one path.
PS I do not use the expression "true religion" as though my religion is the only path. This may be in disagreement with some Catholics. So accept my error in echoing the expression "true religion", it is not one I would normally use.
Your post seem to be picking on Catholicism, if not, accept my apologies and disregard my post..
Your use of the words 'attack
February 9, 2007 - 13:47 ET by fosstenYour use of the words 'attack' and 'denigrate' are hyperbolic. Show me where I did such a thing. I didn't. I simply stated that there are differences between Catholicism and the Bible.
It would have been no different had I stated, "Black people generally have darker skin than white people."
"Why, you racist bigot! How dare you denigrate and attack African-Americans that way!"
listen to him
February 10, 2007 - 18:05 ET by tumbler_2007You never corrected any error. I was not posting any error or false statement. You simply don't know anything about the Catholic faith. (Talkin to the phoney; mr fossten of fundie fame.)
what's more, fossten,
February 10, 2007 - 18:12 ET by tumbler_2007What's more, the use of him/her is insulting. You know you're addressing a man.
The Holy Bible is not opposed in the least to the Catholic Church. It cannot be, both the Bible and the Catholic Church are from God. Many of your private interpretations of the Bible are false or applied falsely. Because you discard the teachings of the holy apostles. You push a faith which Paul anathemizes in Gal. 1 :7 8 and 9. A faulty, heretical faith.
Account of each doctrine & how it compares with Bible?
February 9, 2007 - 13:49 ET by tumbler_2007Our Pal fossteen:
"--a detailed account of each doctrine and how it compares with the Bible, please feel free to read here. *link* to the interpretation of false ministers-- Tumbler will no doubt attack me or the author, since that is his style, but the information in the link clearly and decisively repudiates and devastates his statement that ******"every word ever taught about Christian faith and morals by the Catholic Church has been the teaching of Christ's holy apostles."***** ? ? ? You WISH, Falsten. You wish!
Cautioning free-lance ministers-- Every word ever taught about Christian faith and morals by the Catholic Church (doctrine) IS the teaching of Christ's holy apostles. You can't deviate from their Gospel for any reason or you are anathema. Paul said it, I believe it, and I'm passing it on to you. This is not my opinion, it's written in the Holy Bible. (Gal 1 :8, :10) No one can make the free-lance minister back up and read the real doctrines of the Church. I know that.
It's a foregone conclusion Foss has never read a catechism, or studied the works of the early Fathers of the Church. He rejects them because they challenge his bigotry and pride. Maybe even his livelihood.
This is why "evangelists" who teach simple people from private interpretations of scripture either of their OWN, or passed on from another free-lance minister, Why they lead to disintegration of their own sects. The myriads of boutique churches all over the world each practicing according to their own, particular different choice of belief. More than 25,000 separate denominations in the 20th century, all pretending to have the Word of God. But the Word of God unites; it can't DIVIDE the flock!
Where is there unity and accord under One Shepherd? The Holy Catholic Church. It is a Communion of Saints (Apostle's Creed). The Word of God sustains and holds it together.
I haven't bothered myself to check that anti-catholic link. It's irrelevant, because with the Church of the apostles I'm already secure in the love of Jesus Christ. He is the heart and life and Head of the Catholic Church, not fossten's pretend ministry. And I say that with all respect & sympathy for him. He is being deceived.
Notice how Tumbler yet again
February 9, 2007 - 13:55 ET by fosstenNotice how Tumbler yet again fails to address one single point factually, but instead employs the old, sad, weary liberal tactic of name-calling and personal attacks.
Tumbler, you have zero credibility on this board. You appear and vanish, much like the trolls everybody here hates.
I am ready to discuss any point of Catholic law with you. Are you afraid to meet me on the merits? Can you do it without resorting to the childish behavior you are so known for?
I doubt it.
addressing all important points FACTS
February 9, 2007 - 14:26 ET by tumbler_2007Is there any credibility out of YOUR corner, fosst? Yes; that you're an enemy of the Catholic Church. You don't pretend otherwise. You've blatantly lied about the Church. It can't lend you credibility. You call me "Liberal, like a troll, childish. Who is more name-caller, you or me?
You wish to compare our "MERITS" -- What are your merits? I gave you simple text proofs and they don't bother you. Oh, have I seemed somehow "afraid to meet fossten"--? I couldn't be afraid. Never in any meeting with you. Why should the meat-grinder be afraid of baloney?
tumbler...
February 9, 2007 - 14:41 ET by Guy Arthur Thomastumbler...if ever I have met or come across a man born out of time...it is you. May it be that God allows one moment of time travel and sends you to your true destiny in the year 1200 AD where you could join the Crusades. There you could satisfy both the yearnings of a heritage unloved and a level of righteousness your "self" could never imagine achieving. Sheeesh.
If you claim to be a conservative, please don't disgrace yourself and conservatism by thinking and arguing like a liberal. Go Rudy!
Perhaps re-reading my post ma
February 8, 2007 - 21:13 ET byFootbolisgreat,
Perhaps re-reading my post may take away some of your anger? I did not say that schools should teach anything pertaining to Catholicism--against or for. I said that "I" teach against the teachings of Catholicism. And as I said, I found what was said on that blog to be vulgar.
You may want to rethink your stand on slander. First off, slander is when someone knowingly lies about another person in a way to hurt their reputation. If someone fully believes something to be true at the time of saying it, then such is not slander. For instance, you may very well believe that I am 'evil,' so you calling me evil, would then not be considered slander. However, if you knew differently, but still said it, that would be slander.
I realize that you have your back-up because you do not like that someone is against that which you hold very dear. Maybe if you were to study up on Catholicism, you would learn that Popes have made statements that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church. Actually, the Catholic catechism teaches that salvation is only through the Catholic church. Hence, Catholicism teaches against mine and all other faith-beliefs.
(You may want to notice how shocked you were that I speak against Catholicism. Why should your faith belief be so off limits?)
DebraJMSmith, You are somethi
February 9, 2007 - 11:58 ET by futbolisgreatDebraJMSmith,
You are something else. Why do you presume that I have not studied the Roman Catholic Church teachings? I know my Church inside out and know what it teaches and what it doesn't teach. You seem to be quite the presumptuous one.
You are 100% wrong in saying that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that the only way to salvation is through Her. The fact is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that anyone, regardless of their creed, religion, beliefs, etc can enter Heaven. According to the Roman Catholic Church teachings a Muslim, a Jehova's witness, an atheist, etc, anyone can enter Heaven. What it does say that if you choose to be ignorant of the truth, if you purposedly turn away from the truth then you are in trouble, but if you honestly believe in your beliefs and follow Natural Law, anyone can enter Heaven.
Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church catechism doesn't teach anything close to what you just said.
Please stop spewing such ignorant "facts" about the Roman Catholic Church. You are spewing hearsay and ridiculous things that have been used since, Roman Times, Luther, Henry VIII and others have attacked the Church.
As for Popes saying things, they can say whatever they want about politics, science, religion, etc, etc, but the Pope is infallible when it comes to Catholic Dogma, and NO POPE HAS EVER DECLARED DOGMA SAYING THAT THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN IS THROUGH THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Finally, yes, it is outrageous to me that there is such great ignorance, (since you claim that you didn't slander the Church, then you are ignorant about the Church, right) when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and that the attacks and slanders that were used by the Romans, Luther, Henry VIII, etc are still being used by individuals today.
One last thing, Fossten, we agree a lot politically, but religious wise, you can't be more wrong about the Roman Catholic Church, such like Debra, because it is impossible. A priest will tell you to go read the Bible and follow it and live it and use it to model one's life after it. I don't know where you got your ideas about the Church and its priests, but my friend, you are wrong.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Futbol, Debra. Foss
February 9, 2007 - 12:50 ET by misterbillFutbol, Debra. Foss--perhaps this will be of some help. I started Catholic school in 1938. I was an altar boy. I was interested in entering the priesthood. I studied my Catechism (as fossten and Debra cite). I never saw anything in it to prevent others from going to Heaven. I once lived in a parish in which the Episcopalians and the Catholics shared the same church. Following are some items that may cause misunderstandings: (Without a lot of details for brevity's sake).
I, indeed was told that the ONLY way to Heaven was through Catholicism. No nun or priest ever told me that, only over zealous Catholics. It was refuted by my confessor when I was a pre-teen.
I attended a Baptist wedding ceremony when a senior in high school. When my home room nun found out, she sent me over to the rectory to confess my "sin". My confessor totally refuted that there was any sin and expresse complimentary statements about the Baptist religion. Furthermore, he came to the school and took my home room nun aside and, from what I could tell, gave her quite a lecture.
Fosstens mentioning of the Bible vs catechism= as a Catholic school attendee, I did not study the bible directly. In high school we used text books called Bible History. The thees and thous, etc, were converted to you, etc. There may indeed have been some text that was in contradiction to the KJV bible, but I was unaware of them.
So, as you can see, there are some differences, and as written in my text, there are Catholics who say wrong things just as there are other Christians who do the same.
In closing I will tell you that my wife and I attended services in a Methodist church for five years. Once again, all I heard was the love of God. Any place that teaches me about Jesus is a good place. It is not necessary to use NB as a medium to work out differences. Please use private messages.
Having typed this in, I then say "so what". You believe what you choose and I believe what I choose. I was never taught hate. I was, for the most part, Taught that Christianity was the key to salvation.To those who argue for and against Catholicism---put a sock in it. This is my last post on the subject. Let us refocus on the evil empire of falsehood -the MSM-. We share a common goal there.
Misterbill, Well, where to be
February 9, 2007 - 13:38 ET by futbolisgreatMisterbill,
Well, where to begin.
1) I will defend my Faith and my Religion from slander and ignorance. Whether it is face to face or here in NB. That is the problem with Catholics today, that they don't stand up for the Roman Catholic Church. Individuals like you that don't want people to defend the Church are the ones that need to put a suck on it.
2) While it is true that you can believe what ever you want and so can I, the fact of the matter is that the TRUTH is NOT Relative, there is One Truth and our job here on Earth is to find out what this ONE TRUTH is.
3) Also, you attended Catholic School in 1938, thus you were not part of the Vatican II Dogmas. Also, as for individual Catholics, priest or nuns saying that the only way to salvation is the Church, sorry, they are wrong. Remember, priests and nuns can make mistakes and they obviously did. The Pope is the final authority, in the Church, when it comes to religious Dogma. Just like every where else there are rebellious priests, nuns, etc that will not follow the Pope. Obviously, these priests, nuns, etc shouldn't be part of the Church and they are excomunicated when the Church finds out about their wrong teachings. So, just because a nun, or priest told you so it doesn't mean that it is the teaching of the Church.
4) As for attending a Baptist wedding, nothing wrong with it. i have gone to weddings in Methodist, Lutheran, Sinagogues, etc. What you can't do, as a true Roman Catholic, is go to Sunday Mass or Holy Days of Obligation to other Christian denominations. They don't count.
5) Now, I attended a Roman Catholic School from Kindergarden until my Senior year in High School. I was taught to read the Bible. I had a religion class in which the Bible was very much a part of it. We would read the Bible from beginning to end and in between we would discuss the passages and learn what they mean, historically and how to live our daily lives according to the Bible. the Bible was a very much a central part of my religion class and of my Roman Catholic school. Once again there are rogue Roman Catholic schools that do whatever they want, but once the Church finds out the title of "Roman Catholic School" is removed.
I have a Bible in my house, so do all my brothers and sisters, my paretns and most every Roman Catholic friend that I have. I will teach my sons and daughters that the Bible is very important to being a good Roman Catholic. Not only do we have a Bible in our homes, we read it and make it an important part of our daily lives. There are other Catholic books we read, the Catechism, writtings written by St. Thoams Aquinas, St. Augustine, etc.
Sorry, once again a complete and utter display of ignorance or slander about the Roman Catholic Church.
and yes, we do all have one common enemy, the MSM, but it seems that some here have the Church as their enemy too. That is completley sad.
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't see any other Christian denomination or for that fact any other religion as an enemy or as evil. The Church has made great strides in trying to befriend other religions.
at the end mrbill, don't ask others to put a suck on it when it comes to defending their Faith. I won't and I will defend my religion and Faith.
"...disgusting, unAmerican draft-dodger..." Liberal Zapata/Tom talking about draft-dodgers. Thus asserting what we have always known about Slicky Willie Clinton
Fut, If you want to defend yo
February 9, 2007 - 13:51 ET by fosstenFut,
If you want to defend your faith, then do so. Let's discu