Sometimes media bias can be found in what the networks don’t say. On Tuesday, Wal-Mart suffered a major blow when the liberal 9th Circuit Court in California ruled that a class action lawsuit claiming sex discrimination could proceed against the company. All three evening newscasts reported the story, with ABC and CBS noting that a "federal appeals court" had sided with the female plaintiffs. Over on NBC, "Nightly News" anchor Brian Williams simply used the phrase "federal court."
However, the 9th circuit isn’t just any court. This is the group of judges that ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional. And, according to a report by the Center for Individual Freedoms, 32 percent of the reversals by the United States Supreme Court in 2003 came from the 9th Circuit. And yet, none of the network anchors thought this a pertinent point. "World News" anchor Charlie Gibson instead chose to hype the enormity of the case:
Charles Gibson: "It is a lawsuit so large in scope and size, that it staggers the imagination. A federal appeals court ruled today that a gender bias suit against Wal-Mart can proceed in what is known as a class-action suit. That means a million and a half to two million women would-be plaintiffs arguing, as a group or class, that Wal-Mart discriminated against them in providing promotions and in paying them less than male employees. Here's our senior law and justice correspondent, Jim Avila."
In fact, the 9th circuit became so notorious, that there has been talk of dismantling it. However, in the "World News" segment, which aired at 6:30pm on February 6, ABC reporter Jim Avila seemed almost excited by the "message" that would be sent to corporate America:
Avila: "Wal-Mart attorneys lost their argument that defending a class-action suit is unfair because it would be impossible to cross-examine each of the two million women accusing them. Wal-Mart claimed its workers should be required to sue each store individually. Today, the court majority said that is impossible. But the lone dissenting judge worried that a class-action suit would reward all plaintiffs equally and enrich undeserving workers and lawyers. Next for Wal-Mart, attorneys will appeal to anyone who will listen, from the full appeals court to the Supreme Court. But if Wal-Mart loses, it could cost them billions in damage, sending an expensive message to corporate America that no matter how big you are, employee discrimination can be costly."
Both the NBC "Nightly News" and the "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric" featured news briefs on the story. Neither mentioned the 9th Circuit’s liberal history or proclivity to be overturned. Apparently labels are only necessary when one is discussing conservatives.
A transcript of the "World News" segment follows:
Charles Gibson: "It is a lawsuit so large in scope and size, that it staggers the imagination. A federal appeals court ruled today that a gender bias suit against Wal-Mart can proceed in what is known as a class-action suit. That means a million and a half to two million women would-be plaintiffs arguing, as a group or class, that Wal-Mart discriminated against them in providing promotions and in paying them less than male employees. Here's our senior law and justice correspondent, Jim Avila."
Jim Avila: "It's America's biggest store, biggest employer, and now, must defend itself against a huge female group of its own employees who claim Wal-Mart is also the biggest discriminator in the country. A federal appeals court in California ruling today that there is, quote, 'significant proof of a corporate policy of discrimination,’ that supports the contention that, 'female employees nationwide were subjected to a common pattern and practice of discrimination.’"
Betty Dukes (plaintiff): "Our words are true. We are not falsely accusing Wal-Mart. We are stating the facts as they have occurred."
Avila: "The women claim Wal-Mart systematically pays its female staff 5 percent to 15 percent less than its male workers in comparable jobs. And that while the Wal-Mart workforce is two-thirds female, women get only one-third of all promotions to management."
Christine Kwapnski (plaintiff): "I was making half what the men made and, you know, I was over those same men, training them on their jobs."
Jim Avila: "For its part, Wal-Mart, in a telephone news conference, said it will appeal this decision as far as the Supreme Court. The company denies it discriminates and says it strongly promotes diversity in the workplace. And in 2005, its CEO promised to correct any valid complaints."
Lee Scott: "The exceptions that occur, we're going to deal with very strongly. It's our obligation, not only to our associates, but it's our obligation to society."
Avila: "Wal-Mart attorneys lost their argument that defending a class-action suit is unfair because it would be impossible to cross-examine each of the two million women accusing them. Wal-Mart claimed its workers should be required to sue each store individually. Today, the court majority said that is impossible. But the lone dissenting judge worried that a class-action suit would reward all plaintiffs equally and enrich undeserving workers and lawyers. Next for Wal-Mart, attorneys will appeal to anyone who will listen, from the full appeals court to the Supreme Court. But if Wal-Mart loses, it could cost them billions in damage, sending an expensive message to corporate America that no matter how big you are, employee discrimination can be costly. Charlie?"
UPDATE (23:15 EST): The MRC's Business & Media Institute also wrote about Avila's unbalanced reporting, accessible here.
—Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center.















Comments Policy
"Sometimes media bias ca
February 7, 2007 - 13:00 ET by mattm"Sometimes media bias can be found in what the networks don't say..."
I'd say most of the bias is what is not said, not reported, suppressed, placed on the "back page" etc.
I agree. It's a much more sub
February 7, 2007 - 13:25 ET by HumanEventsI agree. It's a much more subtle form of deception. When the MSM ignore something some people won't even realize the bias that's going on. Plus it makes it easier to escape accountability. They don't have to try to stand by false reports (like Dan Rather kept doing with the phony Bush memo story - which I'm sure was what led to his departure). By just not reporting at all there's nothing to have to defend other than why they ignored it (and then can always use the excuse that they felt other things in the news were more prominent at the time [like Britney Spears' latest fashion style]).
Why can't Walmart hire who th
February 7, 2007 - 22:54 ET byWhy can't Walmart hire who they want and promote those who they want?
Thank you Scott for the percentage reversal numbers.
February 7, 2007 - 13:05 ET by acaiguanaThank you Scott for the percentage reversal numbers.
This is the most reversed Court of Appeals in the United States. They are very Liberal and are responsible for a large number of very bad decisions that don't get appealed to the Supreme Court.
One of Bush's largest efforts as President has been to try to appoint as many conservative justices to this court as possible. I'm not sure of the size of the 9th Circuit today, but it is very large. And many times the judges ruling are all of the Liberal persuasion.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
"The most reversed circu
February 7, 2007 - 15:26 ET by j. frank wilson"The most reversed circuit in the United States?" Do you mean it is the busiest?
Data from a more recent period than cited in this blog: During the 2004-2005 term the US Supreme Court took 69 cases and reversed 51 (74%). 100% of the cases heard from the 1st, 2nd, and 10th Circuits were reversed. 84% of the 9th Circuit cases were reversed. 84% is less than 100%.
For the period 2000-2006, I expect the 9th Circuit's average of reversals is very close to the national figure.
J Frank. At it again I see. Y
February 7, 2007 - 15:39 ET by bassndudeJ Frank. At it again I see. Your wrong on two counts. 100% or the cases from 3 circuits were not reversed, example, the law forbiding gay marriage in Oklahoma, 10 circuit, was up heald by the Supreme Court, so your 100% is dead wrong, research will bare that out. I think you made that stat up. And Second!, 3 courts do not add up to one little circuit, the 9th. The 9th is the most reversed court in the land. No excuses, no if's no and's no but's. Fact of life.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Your post lacks facts and dat
February 7, 2007 - 15:58 ET by j. frank wilsonYour post lacks facts and dates. Don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your beliefs. And be sure to always post before you have the facts in hand!
Please do us all one favor - don't "bare" your research...
Or should we just take your word for it that "The 9th is the most reversed court in the land?"
Your post contained no proof
February 7, 2007 - 16:02 ET by florida_chadYour post contained no proof of the "facts" you listed. The 9th has historically been the most overturned court in the nation. One good year, if that is true, doesn't change the longterm score. Are we supposed to take YOUR word that your facts are true? Sources.
Actually, I did cite numbers.
February 7, 2007 - 16:11 ET by j. frank wilsonActually, I did cite numbers. But if you would like some more, here they are:
2003-2004 Supreme Court Term: 9th Circuit cases reversed: 76%. National: 77%
2002 - 2003 Supreme Court Term: 9th Circuit cases reversed: 75%. National: 73%.
2001 - 2002 Supreme Court Term: 9th Circuit cases reversed: 76%. National: 78%.
Surely you could do your own research!
There are a number of issues other than pure numbers, such as the size of the 9th Circuit (and the area it covers); the fact that California often leads the nation; the philosophy that Circuit judges should decide cases as they see them and not as they think the US Supreme Court will review them; the fact that the US Supreme Court doesn't hear uncontroversal cases, etc.
Facts without the source are
February 7, 2007 - 16:22 ET by florida_chadFacts without the source are useless. When you come in and challenge the blog you should provide a source for your "facts". Not demand that we do our own research to disprove your "facts". What, do you think we sit here and wait for you to give us an assignment?
Besides - you are wrong.
OK, you convinced me. Not.I
February 7, 2007 - 16:30 ET by j. frank wilsonOK, you convinced me. Not.
I took the time to research the issue and present the truth. We're not talking about obscure items here. The decisions of the US Supreme Court are readily available.
You simply state "you are wrong" and back it up with nothing. Zip. Nada. Goose egg. In other words, your entire argument is "I'm right and you're wrong."
Wow! That's a zinger...
J frank - you are the one w
February 7, 2007 - 16:36 ET by Dee BunkJ frank - you are the one with Zip - the blog links to an article with the statistics and yours do not agree so put up or shut up
The blog links to two article
February 7, 2007 - 17:00 ET by j. frank wilsonThe blog links to two articles from one source. One article is dated July 25, 2004. The other is even older - July 22, 2003. There haven't been any US Supreme Court decisions since mid-2004? What are we paying them for? These articles attempt to show the 9th Circuit is "most reversed" because it is the busiest in the nation. Yes, the US Supreme Court reverses more of their decisions than any other Circuit's because the 9th is the busiest in the country. On a percentage basis, the decisions of the 9th Circuit are reversed roughly as often as all the Circuit decisions in the US. Why is that so tough to grasp? If anyone has facts to dispute my statements bring em on. Until then you're sitting at the table bluffing with a busted flush...
J Frank - I'm not sitting a
February 7, 2007 - 17:20 ET by Dee BunkJ Frank - I'm not sitting at the table and neither are you until you have some cards. You are standing on the sidelines with your own deck and expecting to play and have everyone trust that your deck is legit.
Read the entire source article and it explains the selective distorted point you are talking about. I'm not going to continue posting things and chasing things that you are not backing up. Here is one part that pertains to the point you are trying to make.
"It is true that the
overall reversal rate of the 9th Circuit (76%) was lower than that of some
other federal appellate courts — most notably the 2nd, 5th, 10th, 11th,
D.C., and Federal Circuits, which were all reversed 100 percent of the time
this past term. Yet these "complete" reversal rates are likely
caused by the U.S. Supreme Court’s much less frequent review of those
circuits along with the justices’ proclivity to review cases in which
they are predisposed to reverse the lower court’s judgment. Specifically,
the High Court decided only 19 cases from the 2nd, 5th, 10th, 11th, D.C.,
and Federal Circuits combined (two from the 2nd, six from the 5th, three
from the 10th, four from the 11th, three from the D.C. Circuit, and one
from the Federal Circuit), compared with the 25 cases the Supreme Court
took up from the 9th Circuit alone, including the 19 that were reversed. "
Given that the article is, wh
February 7, 2007 - 17:29 ET by j. frank wilsonGiven that the article is, what, 30 months old, the point is the blog states the 9th Circuit is the most reversed in the nation. That is repeated by many blowhards - O'Really?, Insanity, the good Dr. Dobson, ole BlunderRush, and others of their ilk. That arguement only holds if one looks at absolute numbers. The 9th is the busiest. On a percentage basis the reversal rate of the 9th Circuit is roughly the national average (keeping in mind a relatively small sample size). Not the highest. Not the lowest. The average (as that term is generally used - let's not get into a discussion of all the different averages).
J Frank - you need to read
February 7, 2007 - 17:36 ET by Dee BunkJ Frank - you need to read the whole article. I'm not going to keep taking up space cutting and pasting when you can just read it. I already noticed that I duplicated something from ACA. You need to read it - the source is there. If you have one for us to read we will read it with their analysis. We are not trusting yours - that is all there is to it. It's not personal.
J -- if you did the research
February 7, 2007 - 16:39 ET by florida_chadJ -- if you did the research then post the source. It is pretty easy.
You don't seem to like my arguement of "I'm right and your wrong." Do you understand that is exactly what you did with your first post? Facts without sources are useless. Prove the blog wrong frank with facts AND sources. Otherwise have a good day sir. CYA
re 9th circuit
February 7, 2007 - 16:51 ET by misterbillThis from Center for Individual Freedom Foundation:
"This means that, on average, a case from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit was more than twice as likely to be reviewed and produce a written decision by the U.S. Supreme Court than was a case from the other federal appeals courts. By contrast, a case from the second busiest circuit, the 5th, was nearly a third less likely to be reviewed and decided by the High Court than the average federal appellate case."
j. frank, this is why I don't debat you. Knife to gunfight again
February 7, 2007 - 17:03 ET by acaiguanaj. frank, this is why I don't debat you. Knife to gunfight again. I'd suggest that you in all of your heavy lifting research simply needed to read the article this blog cites.
Since you obviously missed it, I'll link to it again here.
Since you seem to have trouble with links, I'll actually put a little of the article in here:
"Some legal experts attribute the High Court’s frequent review of 9th Circuit decisions to that court’s staggering size and caseload. With a full complement of 28 judges, the 9th Circuit has more judges than any other federal appellate court and exercises jurisdiction over nine states and two territories (California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands). But if the 9th Circuit’s gigantic caseload is to explain its dismal record in the U.S. Supreme Court, then the frequency of review and reversal should at least correspond to its size and share of the federal appellate cases it hears. They do not.
"Although the 9th Circuit’s caseload comprised approximately 19 percent of the federal appellate cases terminated on the merits in the year ending September 30, 2003, its decisions accounted for more than a third (37%) of all the federal appellate decisions reviewed by the Supreme Court that produced written opinions this past term. Comparatively, the 5th Circuit decided nearly 16 percent of federal appeals cases, but accounted for only 9 percent of the Supreme Court’s docket that came from the federal appellate courts. The third largest federal appeals court, the 11th Circuit, accounted for nearly 11 percent of federal appellate caseload, but only 6 percent of the federal appellate cases reviewed by the Supreme Court originated there. In fact, even the second most-frequently reviewed and reversed federal appellate court this term, the 6th Circuit, accounted for only 12 percent of the Supreme Court’s federal appellate docket while making up just 8 percent of the total federal appellate caseload nationwide."
If you bother to read the article, I have no doubt you won't, you will see that every argument you have brought to the board is smashed into oblivion.
Not even the most extreme Leftist on the Left Coast under the jurisidiction of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals argues that the court isn't reversed all over the gameboard every year.
So, until you can figure out how to frame the argument with facts; and I might suggest learn how to read and comprehend; go away.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Again, this article attempts
February 7, 2007 - 17:09 ET by j. frank wilsonAgain, this article attempts to show the 9th Circuit is the "most reversed" because it is the busiest. I pointed that out in my first post.
The fact remains that the percentage of 9th Circuit cases reversed by the US Supreme Court is approximately the same as the national average. Both averages run in the mid-70's.
The absolute number of cases is higher for the reasons I cited.
You can spin it all day long - but you can't change it.
I haven't seen one cite from you yet. You simply cannot read.
February 7, 2007 - 17:14 ET by acaiguanaI haven't seen one cite from you yet. You simply cannot read.
The article above clearly demonstrates you are wrong.
Either back up your silly idea of the number of cases reversed being the national average with a citation or give it up. The article cited above addresses that argument quite nicely.
I don't quite know what you are doing here j. frank. You have been asked several times for cites and you either refuse to provide them or cannot provide them.
At some point not only does this become borish, but it becomes the behavior of someone who is an ignorant man.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
J Frank, Well, well. Lookie h
February 7, 2007 - 17:05 ET by bassndudeJ Frank, Well, well. Lookie here! In your earlier post you asserted that 100% of the cases heard by the Surpeme Court, of the 2nd and 10th and one other, were over turned. Here you are saying something else. So I see you have proved the point, that the 100% figure was a lie, made up in your little 9th circuit mind. But you seem to think it is up to us to go look. Cite the location of the stats you spout there boy. Let us go look where you are looking? Oh? Whats that? You forgot? Good going there J. Your on a roll.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
You're helpless - along with
February 7, 2007 - 17:18 ET by j. frank wilsonYou're helpless - along with being a rather poor hand at typing.
Go back and read the posts again - you're thoroughly confusing the numbers. Do try to keep them straight. It helps understand the point.
J frank sayes:
February 8, 2007 - 13:02 ET by bassndudeJ frank said:
"Data from a more recent period than cited in this blog: During the 2004-2005 term the US Supreme Court took 69 cases and reversed 51 (74%). 100% of the cases heard from the 1st, 2nd, and 10th Circuits were reversed. 84% of the 9th Circuit cases were reversed. 84% is less than 100%."
Went back and checked. You said 100%. You lied, plain and simple. I got it right. The problem with telling so many lies, is it will catch up to you. It has...again.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
J. frank wilson
February 8, 2007 - 13:11 ET by misterbillJ. frank wilson - I will make one statement, then I will not address the issue again. Since this little debate started out here, I have researched the history and tenor of the 9th circuit. Everything I have read (Cato inst, etc) either flat out states or demonstrates that it is an ill run, extremely liberal court. your denials come across as simply "don't confuse me with the facts". When anyone is so blind as to have that attitude, no amount of proof will suffice. I close saying that you are wrong and I feel you are an agent provocateur at this site.
Arrivederci per sempre.
did someone say "pesky?&
February 7, 2007 - 16:03 ET by PeskyDanedid someone say "pesky?"
Nice one!
February 7, 2007 - 17:31 ET by j. frank wilsonNice one!
Indeed. ;-)Like Stan and Ky
February 7, 2007 - 17:45 ET by PeskyDaneIndeed. ;-)
Like Stan and Kyle in the Crips episode, I'm staying out of this one.
J Frank - you are the one cha
February 7, 2007 - 16:08 ET by Dee BunkJ Frank - you are the one challenging the blog so you should source your "facts" anyone can put up dates. Even assuming your facts, it doesn't mean they are the busiest, it could more likely mean they have more cases with questionable rulings. The Court doesn't hear or make rulings on all cases.
You're free to do your own re
February 7, 2007 - 16:15 ET by j. frank wilsonYou're free to do your own research. I did.
It is an article of Conservative faith that the 9th is the most reversed Circuit in the US. It is repeated so often by the radio gasbags that after awhile folks just assume it is true because they've heard it so often. Gee - could Dr. Dobson be mistaken? Bull O'Really and Sheer Insanity be wrong?
Yes - the facts don't support that proposition.
You may either believe the facts or ascribe to the article of faith. That part is up to you...
Not Frank Wilson - could h
February 7, 2007 - 16:33 ET by Dee BunkNot Frank Wilson - could he be wrong? ; ) I don't know he wouldn't support his facts so I assume he must be. The facts you state don't agree with the facts in this article and its link.
It's not the way it works to throw up any old numbers and when challenged to tell people to do their own research. If you have done it - you should have sources. If we think your sources are questionable than maybe one of us will take the time to look into it further. As it is now - you numbers have no credibility.
jfrank,The Ninth Circuit Cour
February 7, 2007 - 16:14 ET by Dave Rjfrank,
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is a complete joke. It always has been. That is why many refer to it as the Ninth Circus Court. Given this court's record, and if I were Wal-Mart, I would feel pretty good about my chances of having this hideous ruling reversed.
The war that the left has declared against Wal-Mart is getting beyond stupid. What Wal-Mart chooses to pay its employees is between the management of the company and the employees of same. It is nobody else's business, especially the government's.
If the employees of Wal-Mart do not like their compensation, they are free to go work for someone else. Wal-Mart, like all corporations, is not in business to provide jobs.
I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -William T. Sherman
OK, Dave, share with us "
February 7, 2007 - 16:17 ET by j. frank wilsonOK, Dave, share with us "this court's record." What is it?
jfrank,Here, here, here and
February 7, 2007 - 16:48 ET by Dave Rjfrank,
Here, here, here and here you will find some interesting comments on this court by no less a figure than Tom Daschle, a D E M O C R A T!
As I said, If I were Wal-Mart, I'd be heading straight to the U.S. Supreme Court.
I hate newspapermen.....I regard them as spies.....If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast. -William T. Sherman
Oooops--sorry
February 7, 2007 - 16:55 ET by misterbillOooops--sorry, I posted an excerpt above of the full article which link you had already posted. I tuned in late and should have paid closer attention to who you were trying to educate.
Good luck!
Thanx - I'll need it. I feel
February 7, 2007 - 17:20 ET by j. frank wilsonThanx - I'll need it. I feel like Daniel wearing pork chop underwear.
Way to go! Articles from 20
February 7, 2007 - 17:15 ET by j. frank wilsonWay to go! Articles from 2004 and 2003 weren't old enough - now we have 2 from 2002! What's next - a commentary on Plessey vs. Ferguson?
This is a totally suprious argument j. frank. About what I expe
February 7, 2007 - 17:24 ET by acaiguanaThis is a totally suprious argument j. frank. About what I expect from you.
You are making assertive statements and relating 'facts' with no citations.
Either get some cites or quit. You have been proven wrong as to your assertions about case loads, national averages and all the other silly comments you are making.
And now you have to run under a rock and say, "Ah, the data cited by youse guys is old."
Doesn't work j. Frank. No one here is buying it. You are really either obtuse about the facts or you are just upset that your favorite bastion of Liberal Legislative Action (the courts) are being exposed for the dictatorship they have become.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
"You have been proven wr
February 7, 2007 - 17:35 ET by j. frank wilson"You have been proven wrong as to your assertions about...national averages..."
Which post was that?
This post, j. frank.
February 7, 2007 - 17:44 ET by acaiguanaThis post j. frank. <attribution above>
"Although the 9th Circuit’s caseload comprised approximately 19 percent of the federal appellate cases terminated on the merits in the year ending September 30, 2003, its decisions accounted for more than a third (37%) of all the federal appellate decisions reviewed by the Supreme Court that produced written opinions this past term. Comparatively, the 5th Circuit decided nearly 16 percent of federal appeals cases, but accounted for only 9 percent of the Supreme Court’s docket that came from the federal appellate courts. The third largest federal appeals court, the 11th Circuit, accounted for nearly 11 percent of federal appellate caseload, but only 6 percent of the federal appellate cases reviewed by the Supreme Court originated there. In fact, even the second most-frequently reviewed and reversed federal appellate court this term, the 6th Circuit, accounted for only 12 percent of the Supreme Court’s federal appellate docket while making up just 8 percent of the total federal appellate caseload nationwide."
Now, I can understand 'averages' might be a little difficult as a mathematical concept for you. Some surveys show an alarming number of people don't understand percentages either.
Maybe you can find a neighbor to explain it all to you.
I'm bored with you j. frank. As I told you before, I don't get into intellectual duals with unarmed people.
And you are certainly unarmed and unwilling to bring any cites or facts to this discussion. That makes you a total waste of time. Although very easy to demolish.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Another swing and a miss. Y
February 7, 2007 - 18:02 ET by j. frank wilsonAnother swing and a miss. You conflate absolute numbers and percentage of reversal. A common "error" - particularly by those trying to prove a point that is incorrect.
In the meantime, you wanted a cite, you'll find it below.
Or scuttle back like a lizard in the light.
Ah, j. frank. This is why talking to uneducated people is hard.
February 7, 2007 - 18:10 ET by acaiguanaAh, j. frank. This is why talking to uneducated people is hard.
Let me see if I heard this right. I conflate absolute numbers with percentages.
Um...
OK.
Yeah, I guess I do that.
I'll just have to live with it. I'd like to see you define exactly why that would be an 'error'?
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Wow. 2002 is too back back in
February 7, 2007 - 17:44 ET by Roger the ShrubberWow. 2002 is too back back in history. No wonder Liberals have forgotten 9/11, it was soooo far back.
Here is the Wikipedia entry on the 9th Circuit Court.
Here's for the 1st , 2nd, and 3rd. Interesting. Only the 9th has a copious listing of controversial, Liberal overturning of cases. Interesting, indeed.
What, precisely, is a "L
February 7, 2007 - 18:05 ET by j. frank wilsonWhat, precisely, is a "Liberal" overturning of cases?
#1. 2002 isn't "history.
February 7, 2007 - 18:50 ET by j. frank wilson#1. 2002 isn't "history." Still journalism - too new to be history. #2. My point isn't to forget events from 2002 - and certainly not from 2001. Rather, consider that things have also happened since then. Along with citing articles from years ago, let's include some recent events, as well.
Huh?
February 7, 2007 - 20:06 ET by UnsaneHow is the past NOT history?
Instead of trying to sound smarter than everyone else, perhaps you could work on being smarter.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???" - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
"History" requires
February 7, 2007 - 22:55 ET by j. frank wilson"History" requires enough time to have passed for the causes and effects of events to be recounted - some people say 25 years, some say longer. It's a matter of taste.
For example, today one could write a history of the war in Viet Nam. One could write an account of the current war in Iraq - but it wouldn't be history, even if the author started with the invasion.
The classic example is Henry Kessinger asking the Prime Minister of China his opinion of the French Revolution. His reply: "Too early to tell."
On history
February 7, 2007 - 23:12 ET by UnsaneAnd you would be incorrect. No historian (amateur or professional) or history professor I know would say that and I know many of both.
I can write history on whatever I want just as soon as it vanishes from the present and becomes part of the past. I can write a history of yesterday, of last week, of last month...today, if I wanted to. And it would be called history, as history is nothing more than the records of past events. Now, whether or not it will be good history is a discussion for historians and other ivory-tower types, and then eventually leads to a discussion of something called historiography (which is essentially the history of history). But history is history.
Again, j. frank wilson, instead of trying to sound smarter than everyone else on NB, and desperately aspiring to be the supreme intellectual here...why not invest your energies more wisely into actually BECOMING one?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
You confuse history and journ
February 7, 2007 - 23:55 ET by j. frank wilsonYou confuse history and journalism - the first draft of history.
Go ahead and ask the professors or historians. They will tell you the same thing if they know what they are talking about.
History is more than the simple recounting of events. It is the why and the how - and the results.
For the thousandth time, stop
February 8, 2007 - 05:04 ET by UnsaneFor the thousandth time, stop trying to sound like NB's supreme intellectual and actually try to BECOME one.
This shall be extremely painful for you to accept, but I can write a HISTORY of yesterday if I want, complete with whys, hows, and results. But that view changes over time (look up "historiography" sometime). Contort it however you want, but as every day is future to past (hat tip to Dream Theater), it becomes history.
Or are you so smart, that you want to redefine the entire English language? Did you hear anyone say, for instance, on Sunday night: "Super Bowl XLI is now in the journalistic record and will become history in 50 more years"?
In closing, as I must help power the American economy so that whiny Leftists can plot to steal from me (go to work), stop digging a deeper hole for yourself, stop making yourself look foolish, and actually work on becoming the intellectual you aspire to be. You are only embarrassing yourself. And while you are at it, I recommend taking a Historical Methods course sometime.
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
unsane -- he's the third ra
February 8, 2007 - 05:20 ET by Jack Bauerunsane -- he's the third rate English professor, at a third rate college, who's been writing the next great American novel for the past thirty years, and is on page 2697.
It's a good job he thinks so highly of himself, because we don't.
"Journalism is the first draft of history." Gosh, better note that one down.
OK - Here's a real life examp
February 8, 2007 - 12:01 ET by j. frank wilsonOK - Here's a real life example. President Gerald Ford pardons Richard Nixon. It probably cost him the presidency when he was not elected.
Today, most people would agree that President Ford's decision was the correct one. Time has shown it was the right thing to do.
President Harry S Truman is another good example. People didn't think too much of him or his Presidency in the mid- or late 50's or for some time after. Time passed - "Plain Speaking" came out, then "Truman." Today many people would agree that he was quite a successful president and the tough choices he made were generally correct. Why? Because time has passed and we've seen the results of those decisions.
That's the difference between journalism and history. "The Freedom" is an excellent book about Iraq and our war. It isn't history - but historians will draw upon it when it comes time to write the sad history of our effort.
Extremely simple
February 8, 2007 - 19:35 ET by UnsaneIf it is written about the past...it is history.
Your example showcases historiography.
Feel free to look both up sometime, and enroll in a Historical Methods course.
What part of this do you not understand? Do you need this typed in Cyrillic or perhaps hangul?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Very informative
February 7, 2007 - 23:21 ET by acumenVery informative. For instance, when Madam Pelosi and her ilk call the Iraq war a "grotesque mistake", the "classic" response would be, "too early to tell".
"Way to go! Articles
February 7, 2007 - 19:00 ET by ckc1227"Way to go! Articles from 2004 and 2003 weren't old enough - now we have 2 from 2002! What's next - a commentary on Plessey vs. Ferguson?"
So, your numbers from 2004 and before are relative to the discussion, but rebuttals from the same time frame are irrelevant? Yeah, that sounds about right.
Liberalism is the philosophy of the stupid.
Nice job of paying 50% attent
February 7, 2007 - 19:16 ET by j. frank wilsonNice job of paying 50% attention. The issue isn't that articles from 2004 and 2003 are not relevant - the point is that things have happened since then and recent events deserve equal consideration. Hasn't the US Supreme Court made any decisions since 2004 or 2003? Why did the blogger have to ring in such stale data?
9th Circuit track record
February 7, 2007 - 13:08 ET by dagdaI think in the last 5 years only one decision by the Ninth Circuit has been upheld. Talk of dismantling it really is dividing it into two or three circuits. It has the largest population base to cover in the US and has the largest number of judges so that en banc decisions are never following precedent, even for the Ninth Circuit.
Our real problem, then, is not our strength today; it is rather the vital necessity of action today to ensure our strength tomorrow. Dwight Eisenhower
"...in the last 5 years
February 7, 2007 - 16:21 ET by j. frank wilson"...in the last 5 years only one decision by the Ninth [sic] Circuit has been upheld." That simply isn't true.
However, if that is your contention would you be willing to cite some specifics?
Such as the percentage of cases heard by the 9th Circuit that the US Supreme Court is willing to even consider? How many appeals are turned down without being heard? How many decisions aren't appealed at all? Even without those figures, your statement is flat out wrong.
Staggers
February 7, 2007 - 13:13 ET by Jerry MackWhat should stagger their imagination is their liberal bias.
I have been a part of so ma
February 7, 2007 - 13:15 ET by Dee BunkI have been a part of so many class action lawsuits and I've never received anything when they won except for $50.00 from one against register.com. I didn't even think I deserved that either. Of course I cashed the check because it would have just gone to the lawyers. The suit was because register automatically charged you for your domain name renewal when your membership expired. They said that they would do that when you signed up and I considered it my own dumb fault that I forgot to cancel when I didn't need it anymore.
All of the other law suits you needed to still have receipts from years ago. Class action law suits are for the lawyers and that is it.
In this case, it would be okay if they were required to prove that the discrimination was ordered from corporate, but I'm sure they won't have to do that.
What would happen if Wal-Mart
February 7, 2007 - 14:15 ET by Sua SponteWhat would happen if Wal-Mart announced they where closing 50% of their stores due to pressure from unions and liberals/democrats?
Liars!
February 7, 2007 - 14:22 ET by Mr. TerryIf you don't tell the whole truth, when you know the whole truth, to make it sound another way then it is a lie. You can be charged with perjury in court for that.
Liars!
By popular demand: National a
February 7, 2007 - 17:42 ET by j. frank wilsonBy popular demand: National and 9th Circuit reversal rates. Granted this is a few years old, but that shouldn't bother the folks here:
http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v37-issue1/documents/chemerinsky.pdf
Erwin Chemerinsky has no axe to bear here, huh?
February 7, 2007 - 18:00 ET by acaiguanaErwin Chemerinsky has no axe to bear here, huh?
He's not a statistician; he doesn't deal with the relative size of the court; he has no standing on his own to make the claims he makes here, except he thinks the 9th Circuit Court is not Liberal.
Maybe because he keeps losing his Liberal cases there when appealed to the Supreme Court, as he discusses in your linked article? You know the case where he argued the detainees at Gitmo had the right to habeas corpus?
Lost that one on appeal, huh?
I'm not leary of a lawyer who lost an appeal before the Supreme Court and spends most of the article you linked to arguing how the Supreme Court was wrong to rule against him; also arguing that the 9th Circuit Court is not Liberal and throwing out numbers to show he is right. But of course the numbers he uses are spurious. They are out of context with no relative comparison to the other courts.
I think you need to find another source. What the hey, go back 10 years.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
You couldn't get past the fir
February 7, 2007 - 18:18 ET by j. frank wilsonYou couldn't get past the first paragraph? Do you honestly believe one must be a "statistician" to divide one number by another? He states the percentages - you have no facts to dispute them.
You claim "...of course the numbers he uses are spurious" (is that your new word of the day?). Based on what do you make such a statement? Do you think a law review has the peer review program of this blog?
The premise of this blog is wrong and the numbers prove it. You - nor anyone else - can produce numbers to refute that.
The relative size of the court doesn't make any difference. That's a smokescreen.
Face it - you won't be honest enough to consider that you could be wrong about the 9th Circuit Court. I didn't initially cite sources because this is the common NB strategy - refuse to face facts by making wild claims about the author.
Go back to the US Supreme Court website and review the decisions. They are all there. Count them yourself.
Naw, I actually read his diatribe agains the 'standing' rulings.
February 7, 2007 - 18:21 ET by acaiguanaNaw, I actually read his diatribe against the 'standing' rulings.
Your grasp of numbers and context is amazing. However, if you want to claim the 9th Circuit Court is 'not' Liberal overall, go ahead. Just try to find someone who isn't grinding an axe trying to explain away his own losses chasing Liberal ideas around the horn.
Try finding some other source. I'll stick with the source cited in this blog post.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
Another swing and a miss.I ne
February 7, 2007 - 18:31 ET by j. frank wilsonAnother swing and a miss.
I never said the 9th Circuit Court isn't "Liberal." I don't buy into the whole concept of labeling courts or judges. By the way, those do do promptly trip themselves up over the whole judicial activism thing. "Conservative" judges overturn laws passed by Congress far more than "Liberal." But that's for another day.
I simply stated it is an urban myth to content the 9th Circuit Court is more reversed than any other in the United States. The percentage of their cases overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court is roughtly the national average. You - and others - conflate absolute numbers and percentages by claiming the 9th Circuit is reversed more often based on the volume of cases they hear.
If more drivers are killed on a major highway than on a country road is the highway more dangerous? To judge that one would have to know the number of vehicles being driven on both. The highway may well have a higher number of traffic deaths - but that little country road with no lights and an unmarked railroad crossing may be far more deadly.
PS: The author of that law review article cited his sources - the well respected Supreme Court reporter for the National Law Journal. Is she part of your vast left wing conspiracy as well? Did she make up her numbers? Must she be a statistician to satisfy you? Or does it have to be in the Washington Times before you will believe it? Or how about the publication Dr. Timothy Ball writes for - The Beaver?
Your point of conflated numbers is simply wrong.
February 7, 2007 - 19:35 ET by acaiguanaYour point of conflated numbers is simply wrong.
The numbers cited were in relative juxtaposition with all other Circuit Courts. They weren't stand alone. They were also comparative to the other court facts. That is not conflating numbers. Try again. That's why I asked above for you to justify this statement. You didn't so I assume you cannot. Context is everything j. frank.
And context is why I'm discarding your 'source' author. It has nothing to do with the NB way of attacking the author, it has to do with the context of this author's personal stake in what he is trying to say. His personal stake is to try to justify bad lawyering. He lost. That is bad lawyering in my book, especially if I'm footing the bill.
I'm asking you to find a less connected source for your assertions. That's fair. I don't see you jumping to do that. Maybe because this is the only source you can find? I can find innumerable sources for my assertion that the 9th Circuit Court is overturned at a very high rate for cases appealed. 37% to be precise. Now, you are trying to tell me that this is not indicative of bad judging? I disagree.
But, I'm sure you will keep arguing otherwise. I don't care much for your source, but you did drag one up. I read it. I don't trust it. And the law reporter isn't good enough for me, no. Sorry.
ACA
...
Hillary Clinton says: "I want to take those profits."
You've elected to pass from f
February 7, 2007 - 19:46 ET by j. frank wilsonYou've elected to pass from facts to faith. That's the beautiful thing about faith - it doesn't have to be defended from those pesky facts.
Keep dismissing sources that don't agree with you because you don't agree with them. Accept the spin.
That way you will be safe from learning anything.
Yawn.
February 7, 2007 - 19:49 ET by Free StinkerYawn.
Source evaluation, the lost art
February 7, 2007 - 20:10 ET by UnsaneWhat acaiguana did was something called source evaluation, something you clearly have disdain for.
What would you say if he used Limbaugh's website as a source? Why, you would whine something about "Blunder Rush", wouldn't you?
"HAV3 TH3 BRIDG3S OF INSANITY B33N CROSS3D AND FOR3V3R R3TRACT3D???." - Meshuggah, "3ntrapm3nt", from Catch Thirty Thr33 (2005)
Two simple numbers don't requ
February 7, 2007 - 23:59 ET by j. frank wilsonTwo sim