Rob Thomas, singer/songwriter and front man for the band Matchbox 20, has successfully proven an old adage: Don't keep quiet and let people think you're a fool. Open your mouth and remove all doubt. He has also shown us all that the American system of education is in pretty sorry shape. But, one thing is sure, Mr. Thomas "feels good" about himself, so he's got that whole self esteem thing down nicely. Sadly, he lacks some basis for the conceit.
In a Huffington Post entry from May 27, Thomas made to ingratiate himself with the cool, the hip, and the terminally liberal by tooting his I-love-me-the-gay horn. Most of his entry is banal, uninventive, and prosaic, but the part that most needs to be addressed is his horrible understanding of American history. Of course, his lack of historical understanding is also pretty commonplace for his ilk: those in the Hollyweird/entertainment field. Unfortunately, it is also common among far too many other Americans, ones not trying to sound perpetually hip because they loves them the gays.
Naturally, when we are talking homosexuals in America, the conversation turns to religion and its place in this country and it is that history that Thomas tried to relate with disastrous results to his HuffPo readers.
Thomas regurgitated one of the most common myths that the irreligious and atheists aficionados in America love to promulgate about our founders. The contention is that "most" of the founding fathers were "atheists." Rather more often it is claimed that "most" of the founders were Deists. Neither is true, however.
Now, it is true that many of the founders had unconventional beliefs. It is also true that many of them were wary of organized religion. Thomas is right in one respect when he says that many of the founders thought that "religion was the cause of so much persecution" in Europe and that they wanted to try and prevent those problems here. But it is not true that "most" of the founders were atheists. Not even Jefferson called himself an atheist, though he did call himself a Unitarian. Jefferson also regularly attended Bible study in the halls of Congress during his presidential term. Two founders are known to have called themselves Deists, Ben Franklin and Gouverneur Morris.
Washington was known to shy from common practices, though he was a loyal Church attendee. Adams frequently wrote about his suspicions of the priesthood and the church but was also a loyal member of his own church. But “atheist” was not a very common claim among America’s founders.
It must also be mentioned that every single American state (but Rhode Island) had an official state religion to which every major politician belonged. Too many forget that there is far more to "the founders" than Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison and the big names we can all name. The truth is that half the signers of the Declaration of Independence had divinity degrees and every state was set up to promulgate a particular sect of Christianity. The singular fact is that there were hundreds of founders from the individual states that had a hand in creating this nation. And the largest number of them were pious men.
Next, Thomas makes more of a fool of himself by invoking the mythical "separation of church and state" ideal as one from the "Constitution." (All caps from original)
I also believe that anyone who says that this is a "Christian nation" has RHS, or revisionist history syndrome, and doesn't realize that most of our founding fathers were either atheist or at least could see, even in the 1700s, that all through Europe at the time, religion was the cause of so much persecution that they needed to put into their brand new constitution a SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE so that the ideals of a group of people could never be forced onto the whole.
Of course, Thomas is completely incorrect. The "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. This phrase was written in 1802 in a private letter between Thomas Jefferson and a congregation of Baptists from Danbury, Connecticut. It appears neither in the Constitution nor any other official government document. Few Americans have any grasp at all about what Jefferson was talking about with his letter. (Here is a longer discussion of the Danbury letter)
As it occurs, this "wall of separation" never became an American rule until the Supreme Court belatedly discovered the phrase in the 1940s. So, for nearly 150 years the country rolled along quite nicely with no idea that it was restricted by "a wall of separation between church and state."
Like I said, Thomas' blather about gays is uninteresting but his uninformed ideas about American history needs to be corrected as many times as those that so misunderstand it care to lay these same incorrect facts out there as true American history.
(H/T NewsBusters reader Dawn)
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Well if I can't trust Rob
May 31, 2009 - 19:51 ET by balboaWell if I can't trust Rob Thomas to have his historical facts correct, where am I to turn?
ALL IS LOST.
Likely
May 31, 2009 - 19:54 ET by Warner Todd HustonIt is likely YOU thought he was right. I am just glad to correct your ignorance.
Be sure and visit my home blog PubliusForum.com.
Oh WTH! As Rob said, "It's
May 31, 2009 - 20:21 ET by balboaOh WTH! As Rob said, "It's just like the Ocean / Under the moon."
What is?
May 31, 2009 - 20:47 ET by Warner Todd HustonI suppose that is one of his lyrics? I am not familiar with his stuff and have little interest in it. They stopped making good rock music a couple of decades ago.
Be sure and visit my home blog PubliusForum.com.
WTH
May 31, 2009 - 21:02 ET by balboaYeah it's from the song he did with Santana. I just picked a non-sensical lyric.
There's some good new music out there.
Santana
May 31, 2009 - 21:06 ET by Warner Todd HustonNow there's a guy living of the past! I have liked much of his stuff, though, I have to say.
This Rob guy... I probably wouldn't know his stuff if I heard it.
Be sure and visit my home blog PubliusForum.com.
If you don't listen to a
May 31, 2009 - 21:10 ET by balboaIf you don't listen to a current radio station, then probably not. He's collaborated with a ton of people, and you'd probably recognize a Matchbox 20 song if you heard it.
I don't
May 31, 2009 - 21:17 ET by Warner Todd HustonI don't do music radio. The only radio I listen to is talk. I have an IPod with 60 gigs of music from bluegrass, to classical, to comedy, to sound tracks, to new age, to rock, etc., etc. The newest stuff I have, though, is Static X and Incubus. I am sure I've heard one of his songs, but what I am saying is that if you played it I wouldn't be able to tell you who did it.
Be sure and visit my home blog PubliusForum.com.
I admire your ability to
May 31, 2009 - 21:35 ET by balboaI admire your ability to withstand any bluegrass. ;-)
I can take it for A song, maybe two.
Only two
May 31, 2009 - 21:48 ET by Warner Todd HustonThere is only two types of music I cannot stand.
1- metzzo soprano opera
2- Rap music
I can't abide by either style.
Be sure and visit my home blog PubliusForum.com.
I would call a lot of the Cajun
May 31, 2009 - 21:51 ET by general companyMusic Bluegrass, some of witch I just love but I go see a lot of local stuff.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Cajun and bluegrass?
May 31, 2009 - 22:22 ET by beauxdogNah... two very different styles... both wonderful to listen to live and local.
To the guy who doesn't like bluegrass... try Doc Watson.
I just love how relevent the topic was here. The entertainer in the subject is so powerful, we are discussing music styles unrelated to him.
Beauxdog
Well ok
May 31, 2009 - 23:02 ET by general companyBut many times they have the same choice of instruments.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Yep
May 31, 2009 - 21:18 ET by general companyLike
Bright lights
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I really like the song
May 31, 2009 - 21:26 ET by balboaI really like the song "Let's See How Far We've Come."
http://www.youtube.c...
This isn't the "official" video, as far as I know.
One of the two songs of
May 31, 2009 - 22:39 ET by Lord ElicaniOne of the two songs of theirs that I like:
The cars are moving like a half a mile an hour an'
Started starin' at the passengers wavin' goodbye
Can you tell me what was ever really special about me all this time?
Not especially deep lyrics, but a catchy tune. Meh, when I want the deep lyrics I'll go back to my Rush/Dream Theater/Ayreon.
"And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears
fought are still at issue around the globe – the belief that the rights
of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of
God."
- John F. Kennedy
bal, you'll have to cut
May 31, 2009 - 21:07 ET by Blazerbal, you'll have to cut Warner some slack, he blogs from Pleasantville where everythings in black and white and not color.
Jus' kidding Warner. : )
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
balboa
May 31, 2009 - 21:55 ET by well99You mean this song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXp413NynFk
His best work.Then again with Santana how can you go wrong.
That's it!
May 31, 2009 - 22:02 ET by balboaThat's it!
True
May 31, 2009 - 22:18 ET by general companyThen again with Santana how can you go wrong.
He seems to be playing better every time I see him.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
GC
May 31, 2009 - 22:37 ET by well99I agree.Santana just gets better with age.
Well, since you're a
June 1, 2009 - 14:58 ET by bretzysdudeWell, since you're a nonsensical fan...
Blam!!!
May 31, 2009 - 20:08 ET by UpNorthNice one, Warner. Game, set, match.
Allow, at this time, to
May 31, 2009 - 20:10 ET by alamojbAllow, at this time, to point out a couple of quotes from two of this Country's Founding Documents:
From the Declaration of Independence:
"... the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, ....We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."
From the Constitution:
(last paragraph before the signatures) "Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth."
The framers did not want another Church of England, or a Holy Roman Empire, but neither did they want something like the French Revolution tried to produce- a godless, secular, bloody mess.
curiously enough its the
May 31, 2009 - 22:23 ET by TruthMongercuriously enough its the gay lovers trying to position gay marriage as a religious issue though homosexuality - like incest - is simply a community health issue - mental and physical
boy won't they be embarased as hell when all the msm smoke clears
hey at least he has a day job
May 31, 2009 - 20:16 ET by katainkent___________________________________________
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past - George Orwell - 1984
hey at least he has a day
May 31, 2009 - 21:02 ET by Blazerhey at least he has a day job
Does he ? Cause I can't remember anything he's put out this decade, although I may be wrong.
Seems like Huffpo is the premiere place these days for has been celebrities to go when their careers are in the toilet.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
Apparently his new album
May 31, 2009 - 21:08 ET by balboaApparently his new album comes out this summer.
2005 Album was the most
May 31, 2009 - 21:10 ET by katainkent2005 Album was the most recent... but if I could pick out one song from it I'd count myself surprised. I liked the stuff he did with Carlos Santana but that was ages ago.
___________________________________________
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past - George Orwell - 1984
My high school jazz band
May 31, 2009 - 22:40 ET by Lord ElicaniMy high school jazz band did Smooth. Good song. Though, I think the last he thing he did that I liked was (I think) the single off the 'Meet the Robinsons' Disney flick.
"And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears
fought are still at issue around the globe – the belief that the rights
of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of
God."
- John F. Kennedy
Intellectual dishonesty rules ...
May 31, 2009 - 21:29 ET by metaphorsbwithuIf a reporter or pundit ever actually corrected someone on these types of grossly inaccurate facts and information, I think I would fall off my chair.
Can you imagine Chris Matthews saying something like, "Well, to be fair, the concept of separation of church and state isn't found in the Constitution ..."
Wishful thinking, I know.
As it is, these myths continue to be spread either by design or ignorance.
metaphorsbwithu
Since teh Thomas believes
June 1, 2009 - 08:07 ET by eaglewingz08Since teh Thomas believes that 'the ideals of a group of people should not be foisted on the whole' one would assume that he is against judges foisting gay rights and gay marriage (the ideals of a group of people) on the whole country? I would also assume that he believed it was wrong for the church going abolitionists foisting their ideals based upon their sectarian beliefs on the whole country? Yeah, right.
wait..what? consistency?
June 1, 2009 - 17:31 ET by UndercoverConservativeThey want control and acceptance of their "thing" while making someone else's "thing" illegal. Not ever being remotely smart enough to understand that empowering the Government to control one "lifestyle" also means they can control all others.
They pried open Pandora's Box with a crowbar and poured Astroglide all over the Slippery Slope. they created their own Straw Man to give the shove that started their own downfall.
WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)
Matchbox 20 is the Cher
June 1, 2009 - 10:37 ET by Roger the ShrubberMatchbox 20 is the Cher of pseudo-rock-but-actually-pop rock bands. No straight guys listen to Matchbox 20. They only play it because they want to get laid.
3 Doors Down, Better Than Ezra, aw hell, even he frickingBuffalo sissies Goo Goo Dolls would kick their collective a$$ses of Matchbox 20 in a fight.
Lol, Rog. Are you saying
June 1, 2009 - 12:06 ET by balboaLol, Rog. Are you saying Matchbox 20 is The Outfield and Gin Blossoms of the new millennium?
They have a couple good songs.
Roger
June 1, 2009 - 12:30 ET by well99I disagree with you on that.They did have some good music.I like soft rock.I also like Abba so your statement about straight guys only useing it to get laid is wrong.That is what Barry White was for.Nothing wrong with mellow music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfm-17pu6SQ&feature=related
WHO?
June 1, 2009 - 11:21 ET by Bighead227I'm sorry, I mean, WHO?
Rob Thomas Knows As Much As Most Professors
June 1, 2009 - 11:42 ET by rammingspeedEvery blogger on The Huffington Post (and I check with my crazies there every day) is banal, uninventive, prosaic, and has a horrible understanding of American history. Alec Baldwin; Steven Weber; John Cusack; and more than enough other rank, blithering, leftist ideologues to make anyone puke. Anyone but their followers, of course.
It's instructive to read, however. Arianna Huffington is a flake and a poser who doesn't believe or care about the Left. She's a narcissist and an opportunist (she was a conservative Republican, now she's a leftist Democrat?) who only cares about her image.
The Huffington Post is a sewer, and Rob Thomas is one of its many floaters.
well, what the h3ll did they expect?
June 1, 2009 - 17:26 ET by UndercoverConservativeWhen you go around attacking the first and second amendment and banning/controlling them wherever possible, that eventually government goes after the rest of the "lifestyle" choices as well.
The Homosexual Rights movement allowed itself to be hijacked to support marxist and extreme left wing candidacies, allowed itself to be promoted with ridiculous hedonistic parades and events, which did nothing at all to promote their movement in a positive light. The 'gays" flocked to support every democrat and socialist, got Hollywood swinging their way, fought down free speech by creating "hate speech" laws that could be activated based solely on whether someone was "offended" or not, joined into any anti-law enforcement or "anti-violence" (read: anti-gun ownership) rally and cause they could find.
Now, Prop 8 shows up and they're "surprised"? Try to turn it into a discussion of "religion"? Prop 8 is not a religious edict. It's government. The same government they worked to empower, that no longer has a use for them. The free speech they worked to overturn is now their voice that is silenced. The guns they removed would have been the arms that allowed them to protect themselves from repression. Any support from "the people" ruined because no one wants to admit association to the Castro Street freak shows and the @ssless pants wearing leather clowns.
Now Government doesn't need them anymore. It has a larger base among the Latino/Illegal/Raza population-which hates "teh gay". They're meaner, more violent, easier to control and more likely to be surviving off the State and therefore owe the food in their bellies to Government.
The Homosexual Rights movement: you were the biggest Useful Idiots ever. You suppressed the Constitution to fit your narrow focus, and now you're under the bus with the rest of us. Gay marriage should never have been an issue, it would have greatly reduced the culture of infidelity and created stability and reduced health care drain. But in your Gavin Newsom, who thought as a Mayor (a West Coast Bloomberg) demonstrated that the procedures and rule of law were secondary to ideology and sex, which frightened and angered many of your would-be friends and supporters. Like the League of Nations created the situation that engendered WWII, your own political actions created Prop 8.
You should have looked around and saw where the hate was coming from: the churches you feared were often part of "sanctuary city" programs for illegals (another Bloomberg activity) and not the everyday Californian. You did "protests" where you claimed any news report of terrorists was "propaganda to create fear" yet any rumor of "anti-gay" was always immutable truth that launched your intimidation squads. You should have joined us to reduce government waste and taxes, for truth in media, and fought for the right to self defense, not only against thugs but Government interference. Common, "boring" protests instead of flaming drag queens and public fellatio (don't see the "straight" folks doing huge rallies about that, do ya?) and used all that Hollywood and art school money to support candidates that were honest and fair, regardless of party.
Maybe someday soon, what's left of the Gay Rights movement will realize their mistake, or will they keep buying into the hype as the current Administration marginalizes more and more?
My apologies to fair-minded groups like the Pink Pistols who understood that the First and Second Amendments are the ones that *ALL* other freedoms rest upon. As well as old-school, "true" liberals who are coming out of the Santa Cruz hills and seeing what they supported going terribly wrong- realizing that you can't expect government to allow people to live their lives as they see fit when you empower government to control choices and freedoms you don't support.
WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)