On May 20, Politico had an interesting little treatment of columnist Charles Krauthammer crowning him as the most important conservative columnist of the day. A brief overview of his life and his emergence as the most reliable voice against Obamaism served as the main subject for the piece, but a few quotes on Mr. Krauthammer made by other columnists added a sense of how respected Krauthammer is to scribe Ben Smith's piece. All the quotes were complimentary but shockingly, in one of those quotes, lefty Time columnist Joe Klein seemed to hint that a person in a wheelchair was incapable of really understanding enough of the world to make for a worthy columnist.
Can you imagine? In this day and age, saying that a person in a wheelchair is incapable of really understanding the world because they can't easily get out there themselves because of their disability? And, how does a lefty columnist get away with saying this? Will no one scold Klein for his conceit that because he has two working legs that this fact somehow automatically makes him better qualified to opine as a columnist than a wheelchair-bound Krauthammer? Here is how Politico quoted Joe Klein on Charles Krauthammer (my bold):
"There's something tragic about him, too," Klein said, referring to Krauthammer's confinement to a wheelchair, the result of a diving accident during his first year of medical school. "His work would have a lot more nuance if he were able to see the situations he's writing about."
What else could Klein mean by "if here were able to see the situations he's writing about"? Is Klein saying that one cannot understand anything unless one goes somewhere and "sees" them for himself? If that is true, isn't history completely lost to everyone? After all, who can now visit WWII Europe to learn about it? Who can "see" ancient Rome? Did the Twin Towers not really fall to anyone who has not been able to "see" them do so?
John Podhoretz was also taken aback by this conceit of Klein's.
Is it conceivable that Joe Klein is saying a man in a wheelchair is incapable of understanding the nuances of Iraq and the war on terror because he can’t get on a plane and go there like Joe Klein can? Is it possible, in this day and age, for someone seriously to argue such a thing? We cannot go back in time and visit the battlefields of the Civil War, or Agincourt, or the Peloponnese--are we therefore incapable of seeing their nuances? FDR was in a wheelchair and did not visit the battlefields of World War II--were its nuances beyond him as well?
This "seeing" concept, however, is part and parcel to the left's assumption that one person cannot properly understand anyone else's world view because they haven't lived it or "seen" it themselves. It's an assumption that someone's experience makes them a sole expert in any discussion on whatever it is that they have lived in such a way as to discount anyone else's opinions on the matter. It goes to the same notion that a man should not be able to discuss abortion because he cannot become pregnant, or that a white person should not be allowed to speak on race issues because they've never "experienced" racism. Certainly actual first hand experience is an important part of human knowledge, but to say that it precludes non-experiencer's opinions is to completely discount human intelligence and empathy.
Of course, taking the left's concept to its natural ends, we would not, for instance, be able to outlaw murder. After all, if you haven't been murdered, how can you make a law about something you've never experienced?
In truth, this is just another attempt at segregation by the left and another artifice by which they can discount opposing ideas instead of confronting them in reasoned debate.
But permit me here to speak to an amusing dichotomy in leftist thinking, such as it is. While leftists claim that white people can't speak to a black person's issues, or men cannot speak for women, they also posit that humans can speak for animals when arguing animal "rights." So, while on the one hand leftists preclude any possibility that humans can legitimately understand other humans, they curiously contend on the other hand that people can fully understand the feelings of animals in order to advocate for their "rights." Talk about illogic!
But let's face it, we won't hear anyone of the left taking Klein to task for saying that wheelchair-bound people are incapable of understanding a world they cannot "see" for themselves.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Ah ha! Mr. Warner thinks himself a master of fallacious argument
May 21, 2009 - 03:34 ET by JWFBut whence flows his almighty powers? Or is Mr. Warner teh source of all my powers? I get confused.
Special pleading argument: You can't condemn a murderer unless you yourself have been murdered. We cannot know it is not torture unless we ourselves have had it done to us. Then how can they know it is torture when they have not had it done to them? (1)
I can't find it but I have said it here - You cannot run a doughnut factory until you have lived the life of a doughnut hole.
***update****
found it.
Ohhhhh. That lovely fallacious argument AGAIN!. You cannot criticise/run/advocate a war/any war unless you have served/are serving/will serve. You cannot run a donut shop until you have lived the life of a donut hole. You cannot run a taco shop unless you are mexican... (2)
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
(1) http://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/liberal-lies-waterboarding-torture-truth-not-29806#comment-926457
(2) http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb-staff/2009/01/02/open-thread#comment-812368
Mr. Klein's brain has been
May 21, 2009 - 04:03 ET by The ButcherMr. Klein's brain has been in a wheelchair for years.
Political Correctness is defined by liberals
May 21, 2009 - 04:28 ET by DustBunny01Since President Obama was able to get away with his "special olympics" crack, this nonsense by Joe Klein will get a day of pretend hostility and then be passed over and tossed down the memory hole with all forgiven.
Once again, Joe Klein
May 21, 2009 - 05:37 ET by HockeyKidOnce again, Joe Klein demonstrates himself to be properly named. He is indeed a petty, small man.
("Klein" is a German word meaning "small".)
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Joe Klein: No Class, all
May 21, 2009 - 05:53 ET by motherbeltJoe Klein: No Class, all A$$
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
Not allowed
May 21, 2009 - 06:17 ET by richb313It is simple, disagreement with Joe Klien is not allowed. He alone is the arbiter of all things. What would the world do with out the wisdom of Joe. According to Joe if you disagree there must be something wrong with you.
Joe, I could care less what your opinion on anything is. I could care less if I am in agreement. Perhaps you can't see the world properly because you spend so much of your brain power trying to stand erect. Balancing and all so you don't topple over does not leave you enough extra mental capacity to properly comprehend your surrondings.
SCREW Joe Klein.
May 21, 2009 - 19:32 ET by TailgunnerThat uncouth, sleazy, low-rent a**hole.
That goes for the rest of the arrogant morons who think their &$%#@ doesn't stink too.
NOLO PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
Yeah, like this kid can't do
May 21, 2009 - 06:36 ET by GrannyGrump42Yeah, like this kid can't do anything or see the world because he uses a wheelchair:
http://www.aaronfotheringham.com/
Does he look "confined" to you?
He is nothing more than
May 21, 2009 - 06:37 ET by George S PattonHe is nothing more than lefist,racist,shithead.
Remember?
May 21, 2009 - 07:42 ET by Red JeepBO was on Leno's show and said that he had been using the Wite House bowling alley and had bowled a 129.
"That's very good, Mr. President," Leno said.
It's "like the Special Olympics or something," the president said.
Liberals are so insensitive to people with diabilities.
...or how can obama run
May 21, 2009 - 06:53 ET by MidAmerica...or how can obama run a capitalist country when he has never been a capitalist.
I did not know...
May 21, 2009 - 07:11 ET by Joe_HuserHi All, I was not aware of the fact that Charles Krauthammer was disabled by a diving accident.
His disability has been transparent to me as I have been watching him for years on television discussion groups and have had a great deal respect to his opinions and viewpoints.
R/ Joe_Huser
What Me Worry
He is a quadriplegic.
May 21, 2009 - 07:25 ET by motherbeltI didn't know it until a couple of years ago when someome (here? I don't remember) commented on how stiff he looked on TV panels and it was explained.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
he hides it well,
May 21, 2009 - 19:09 ET by puredmashiebut if you look closely when he's on the panel on fox news, he sits in a way that looks uncomfortable, and he has a stutter every now and again.
when i my wife graduated with her 2nd masters in 200, her college's convocation address was given by a fellow from rit (in rochester, ny). they have a lot of deaf students there, and he signed his whole speech. he must give a lot of speeches like that, because i remember being impressed. at the end, you almost forgot that he was signing the whole thing.
swing hard in case you hit it.
I am appalled...
May 21, 2009 - 07:11 ET by jdripperIf the media do not in one voice universally condem Klein there is nothing but shame for them. That he has not been fired shows Time to be a nothing rag.
Jack
"If at age 20 you are a conservative then you have no heart. If at age 30 you are a liberal then you have no brains." Sir Winston Churchill
Good God, Klein's comment
May 21, 2009 - 07:23 ET by JerGood God, Klein's comment is not just supremely puzzling--coming as it does from one who purports to be an admirer of Krauthammer-- but is stunningly dumb and extraordinarily insensitive considering his indictment of the conservative polemical giant is framed as a deficiency of "nuance". Klein's subsequent and appallingly feeble "apology" only further compounds the offensiveness of his original words.
The only bright spot in this otherwise painfully embarrassing episode for those of us on the "left" is that we now have an unassailable source [Krauthammer] attesting to Obama's "first-class intellect".
Jer
Jer, do you have a link to
May 21, 2009 - 07:33 ET by motherbeltJer, do you have a link to his "apology"?
It's either not in one of the links here or I missed it...
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
motherbelt...To answer [UPDATE]
May 21, 2009 - 07:54 ET by Jermotherbelt...
To answer you quickly--without yet returning to the website--the link is contained in one of the comments to the main article Warner cited. There are many pages of comments, however the apology link boldly titles the one referring to it.
Now, I'll go back and see if I can locate it reasonably fast.
Jer
update: motherbelt...click on Warner's John Podhoretz link [Warner's second link]. Scroll to comment #61 [currently p. 7 ot the comments] and you'll find the link to Klein's apology.
or go here.
May 21, 2009 - 08:00 ET by JWFhttp://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/05/20/krauthammer/
and go here to get the Ace of Spades perspective.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/287546.php
That was lame and didn't
May 21, 2009 - 08:08 ET by GrannyGrump42That was lame and didn't even start to address what he said.
Not to mention there's no reason a person in a wheelchair can't travel. Christopher Reeve didn't exactly hang around the house all day. Mark Zupan and the other quad rugby athletes compete all over the world. Aaron Fotheringham went to Germany to be a stuntman in a movie.
Kline exhibits the same kind of prejudice that keeps the late term abortionists busy with mothers of babies diagnosed in-utero with disabilities.
Thanks guys. Interesting
May 21, 2009 - 08:49 ET by motherbeltThanks guys. Interesting read.
Klein doesn't so much apologize as "explain."
And I love how the problem is not the classless comment that he made, but the fact that The usual neoconservative malingerers have been hammering [him] over it.
Just like Anderson Cooper said that lousy comment about TEA partygoers wasn't the problem; the problem was that discussing it was taking away from the real story.
Yeah, right.
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
How about Klein's remark
May 21, 2009 - 09:24 ET by JerHow about Klein's remark that "[Krauthammer's] unflinching support for American unilateralism...did extensive damage to our national security...and caused unnecessary loss of life."
Nice (apologetic?) sentiments for someone you "admire".
Jer
And this also shows Kleins
May 21, 2009 - 15:11 ET by BDAnd this also shows Kleins "Naievete".
Jer,
May 21, 2009 - 19:40 ET by UpNorthit's scary, but I find myself agreeing with you. Maybe there's hope for us, after all. Classless behavior is classless behavior, whether from the left or right.
Klein got caught, making a stupid statement, and now he can't bring himself to walk back from that statement. Plain and simple.
An apology is like an armpit
May 21, 2009 - 08:04 ET by FastEd(or substitue another location) - everyone has one, and they both smell.
How is it that aplogies(sic) are ok when given by the left, but are "not heartfelt" when given by the right? This was a perfect example of engaging mouth before thinking.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
FastEd... First and
May 21, 2009 - 08:09 ET by JerFastEd...
First and foremost: Beautiful post below about your daughter.
Second: Who says Klein's apology is ok? Personally, I thought it stunk.
Jer
Here's another person
May 21, 2009 - 07:35 ET by GrannyGrump42Here's another person "confined" to a wheelchair.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2138555/Quadriplegic-woman-to-sail-around-Britain-using-only-her-breath.html
And some more "confined" people who "can't get out and see the world":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kaT5dDiISw
I was confined in a
May 21, 2009 - 11:12 ET by Lord ElicaniI was confined in a wheelchair for about eight months after a surgery two years ago. There is absolutely nothing stoping you from going out - once I was cleared to drive and get out of the house, I spent almost every day outside at parks and shopping centers, just wheeling around.
You get a whole lot of new respect for something when you go through it. I can bet that a lot of these wheelchair-bound people that could beat up Joe Klein.
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves
- Rush, "Witch Hunt"
I love Podhoretz's
May 21, 2009 - 07:34 ET by motherbeltI love Podhoretz's comment:
The self-infatuation this quote reveals about Klein’s own celebration of
his own passport stamps—the words of a lesser author and thinker about
one who so surpasses him in clarity and insight that a wiser Klein
would have been better off just admitting that he can’t hold a candle
to Krauthammer and let it go at that—is striking enough. But let’s face
it. This is simply disgusting, no matter how you slice it. (emphasis added)
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. -Bart Simpson
klein's worth as a commentator?
May 21, 2009 - 07:54 ET by jondelwicheIs best summarized in his "beautiful" column:
The Realists Take Charge
By Joe Klein Sunday, Nov. 12, 2006 Email -->
This was a big deal. Certainly, it was the end of George W. Bush's radical experiment in partisan governance.
BLAH BLAH BLAH.........
How have the "realists" done for us the last few years, especially in view of the Gitmo vote yesterday? = near Depression/Pelosi/Biden, oops, never mind.
Klein is and always has been a dope.
Open letter to Joe
May 21, 2009 - 07:56 ET by FastEd"Dumbass" in-Klien-ed (to be stooopid):
Sir,
Your analysis of what wheelchair bound people "think or see" is beyond ignorance. Typical of people who have it easy, such as all of you in the media ("I work so hard, sitting here in a studio, pampered by the little folk") and being so removed from the real reality of life.
As the father of daughter who was born to be confined to a wheelchair, not an accident in later years, but from birth, and knowing that she would never experience the joys of running through a flowered field, or the cool surf of the oceans edge, or feel the coolness of anyones touch to her leg(s) [being a father, you guys don't get too close] - I've had to carry a guilt, along with my wife, that it was our fault - Be that as it may - for somebody who can't see the situation as it "really" is, forgets that the view just might make the difference in how things are "really" seen.
Anyway, what you might want to address, "MR." Klein, is how the rest of the world "views" people in wheelchairs - Try moving around, for a day, on "four" legs, instead of two. Try getting up a curb, by yourself, or through a door, by yourself. Try balancing a lunch tray or stack of books, paying for them, and getting to a table, while all the "normal" folks watch and offer no help. Do all of that, sir, from grade school, through graduation with a BA. Do all of that and still have people, like you sir, think there must be something wrong, cause she can't look you directly in the eye, at your eye level, cause she can't see the world the way you see it. Have you ever thought that, maybe, just maybe, your view might be the one that isn't the correct view? (Sorry, used the word thought - forgot that libs, especially media libs don't know what that means).
Lastly, if you were truly a person of "feelings", you might try "rolling" in another persons wheels, before proving to the world that your expereinces are "short" sighted.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Yeah...
May 21, 2009 - 09:02 ET by Mike SargentThe pastor of my church is completely blind, and in the few years that I've known him, he has:
The guy does anything that a seeing person can do - I've even heard stories of his brothers taking him driving on old deserted roads (years ago, in Texas - don't worry...). Disabilities don't always have to hold you back...
I don't know if it's about
May 21, 2009 - 09:50 ET by mattmI don't know if it's about the wheelchair thing, but since libs are prone to denigrating people for their physiological characteristics and wishing death on their opponents, I wouldn't doubt it.
But the main thing here is that Klein is exhibiting the liberal m.o. of attacking the person rather than the arguments the person makes. They can't refute, so they insult, demonize, denigrate, or change the subject. This disqualifies Klein as a legitimate columnist.
Oh really? You don't
May 21, 2009 - 09:57 ET by JerOh really? You don't recall Rush mocking the physical appearance of Clinton's cabinet members?
Furthermore, IMO, Klein was attacking Krauthammer's arguments more than his physical limitations. His comments were still stupid and insensitve however.
Jer
No I don't. But I have
May 21, 2009 - 11:06 ET by mattmNo I don't. But I have heard him do this when there is a point to be made....most of the time it's just in fun....whereas when people on the left do it, which is much more often, it's out of hatefulness and spite, i.e. Rush being lambasted for his weight or his private parts, or having death wished upon him - for God's sake!
But this was not my main point anyway, which was the typical liberal pattern of attacking the person rather than the arguments.
You say Klein was attacking his arguments... "His work would have much more nuance....." How is that an attack on his arguments? What is he specifically refuting? And what factual evidence is he bringing up to back up his point?
The fact is Klein was denigrating Krauthammer's point of view by way of a generality, not with cogent, fact-based and reasoned arguments.
Klein was attacking his
May 21, 2009 - 11:21 ET by JerKlein was attacking his arguments for their lack of nuance, which Klein absurdly and tastelessly attributed to Krauthammer's tragic physical inability to travel to and personally see places and events about which he was writing.
Klein is full of shit of course, but that's his story.
Jer
But he didn't give any
May 21, 2009 - 11:39 ET by mattmBut he didn't give any examples of this so-called "lack of nuance," he just declared it to be so., if that's an attack on his arguments, fine...but it's a pretty weak attack.
No argument from me.
May 21, 2009 - 11:44 ET by JerNo argument from me. Aside from tossing off a couple of compliments about Krauthammer's intellect, Klein's remarks--including his apology--were a complete abomination.
Jer
Joe Klein's "Special Olympics" moment.
May 21, 2009 - 19:24 ET by TailgunnerThat catty remark was clearly intended to refer to Krauthammmer's confinement to a wheelchair.
Reminds me of Joe Biden at a campaign rally telling a guy in a wheelchair to, "Stand up, Chuck!"
No one on the Left (except you) has condemned these multiple slurs against good men.
And they ran Sen George Allen out of the race for 'macaca'.
Hypocrites.
NOLO PUGNARE ME OCCIDERE
For even a small man who
May 21, 2009 - 10:03 ET by d1carterFor even a small man who makes a living in written communication, Klein is so very inarticulate. It is not about what he wrote, it is about the stupid people on the right who misinterpreted it. Surely, the sign of very small man.
As another small man once said, "I don't stand with Joe Kein."
The true disabled comlumnist is...
May 21, 2009 - 10:13 ET by Iowa Boy...Mr. Klein. Since my fall late last year, a wheel chair is my only real way to get around. I have learned things I never knew I could know. I have experienced things I never thought I could experience. My eyes see more now than they ever could before my accident. My confinement (hopefully temporary in the long-run) to my wheel chair has liberated me to so much of a world which I could have never imagined.
I won't speak for Mr. Krauthammer but, neither will I demand an apology from Mr. Klein. He wouldn't mean it if he did.
"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain." Official Motto of the State of Iowa
Iowa
May 21, 2009 - 10:34 ET by owlpelletsKeep after it. I had a paragliding injury in 2003 and was in a chair for about a year and a half. I'm walking now, it's not pretty but....
I did 3 months of rehab at Craig Hospital in Colorado. The many patients at Craig all had more courage, insight, drive in one toe than Klein could acquire in his lifetime. I would challange Klein to spend a week or so getting around the Manhatten cocktail loop in a chair and then get back to us.
Don't blame me....I voted for Palin...
Re The Hammer
May 21, 2009 - 10:24 ET by slickwillie2001Charles Krauthammer may be in a wheelchair, but he towers over Joe Klein.
I have not seen a response from Krauthammer, and this is appropriate. As when a two-bit talking head attacks someone like Cheney or Rove, a response to a pipsqueak simply amplifies the voice of the pipsqueak. Klein's conservative peers are taking him to task very effectively.
Even if Krauthammer is
May 21, 2009 - 13:26 ET by Chris NormanEven if Krauthammer is unable to travel, I'll take his consistent and principled commentary that comes from his intellect and principles than the "nuanced" weak confusion from Klein (and ilk) derived from his "on scene" observations. That is probably the problem with reporters trying to be analysts and commenators.
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
Our wonderful pal Mark
May 21, 2009 - 13:40 ET by bigtimerOur wonderful pal Mark Finkelstein had a blog post all about this yesterday....I post on Finkelblog, along with some others...I want to see him do well too and miss him here....anyway, here is my response, saves me from repeating myself. ;-)
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
A comment for Joe Klein
May 21, 2009 - 14:22 ET by grumpyoldbAs a person that spent 20 years in a wheelchair, and actually helped with the drafting of a little thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act, I cannot possibly say what I am thinking. I refuse to lower myself to his level. I would, however, suggesst that Mr. Klein spend 30 days in a wheelchair (legs bound so he has no lower body mobility. Arms restricted so he cannot fully move them. 30 days, 24 hours a day, no exceptions. If he can do that without whining to everyone he knows about how unfair it is, THEN and ONLY THEN will he have the barest beginnings of the right to criticize those people that are restricted to wheelchair use. Until then, I suggest he contact a comptent specialist had have an optorectomy performed so he can see where he is going.
gob... Great post...you
May 21, 2009 - 14:36 ET by bigtimergob...
Great post...you should know!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
The key point is that klein
May 21, 2009 - 15:17 ET by BDThe key point is that klein believes that since the person in question does not share the same opinion as Klein, it must be because he cannot fully see the world....
This is commonly known as "Horse-shit thinking."
Stephen Hawking and FDR did just fine even though
May 21, 2009 - 16:07 ET by ekslibthey were/are in wheel chairs.
At any rate, Krauthammer has a gift for summing things up.
Joe Klein
May 21, 2009 - 16:18 ET by Edward CropperCheck out my blog for an update on Joe Klein and
Charles Krauthammer
Klein has reached new low ...
May 21, 2009 - 18:58 ET by metaphorsbwithuHe'd need a yardstick to reach the soles of Mr. Krauthammer shoes.
But this begs the question of what Mr. Klein's opinion might be regarding Governor David A. Paterson and, to add insult to injury, his "vision" for New York.
Disgusting people these!
metaphorsbwithu
This guy Klein and Lawrence O'Donnell...
May 21, 2009 - 19:03 ET by jawebster1should find a room together. Jim Webster