Looks like a couple of fellows pushing a book were able to convince the Boston Globe to let them contribute some soothsaying about the future of talk radio. Scratch that, they are talking about today, here and now -- and it's all bad. In the Boston Globe, Steve Elman and Alan Tolz have proclaimed "the rising irrelevance of talk radio," so Rush... fuggedaboutit. Hannity... go back to house painting. Michael Savage... go back to whatever the heck it was you were doing before you were "Michael Savage." It's over. Just like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor (excuse my John Belushi). Finis ( a little French lingo there).
Unfortunately for Elman and Tolz, though, it appears that they don't even have their main facts straight, much less a crystal ball successfully tuned into the state of talk radio today. In fact, they get something wrong in their very first sentence.
One more note on the significance of the presidential election of 2008: It's the first one in more than 30 years on which talk radio had no major impact.
First of all, there has been some sort of talk radio around just about since the first radio station signed on the air. Still, Elman and Tolz' "30 years" time line is a ridiculous measurement. In the case of national politics, where things have heated up for talk radio the most, their "more than 30 years" is a timeline that is off base.
30 years ago and more there weren't any talk radio shows that had a national impact on politics. The misleadingly named Fairness Doctrine was still in force strangling radio personalities and station programmers and it wasn't repealed until 1984; less than the "more than 30 years" timeline the authors pegged as significant. Rush Limbaugh didn't revolutionize talk radio until late in the summer of 1988, again less than 30 years ago. His many current compatriots didn't begin to show up until the early and mid 1990s. All the shows that focus on politics now are not "more than 30 years old" so there is no way that this election is the "first one in more than 30 years on which talk radio had no major impact."
Talk radio had no impact at all on either Reagan term, nor George H.W. Bush's first election because there just weren't many talkers on the market and only Rush Limbaugh had a national show that focused solely on politics at some point. Political talk radio as a major, national influence was just a budding phenomenon until the Clinton years were well under way, really.
Oh, sure there were regional guys and local guys talking politics on the air but local shows have never had the impact that the big nationals have had. Earlier, there were a few national guys like Larry King, Michael Jackson, even Morton Downey Jr. that occasionally touched on politics. But it’s an overstatement to say that any of them had "impact" to the point where major elections were swayed by their words or their medium was a focus of TV and the print industry in the same way it has been for the last 15 years. I agree that they had some small impact, of course, but to the point where these two book hawkers can say that talk radio was an important aspect of political success for "more than 30 years"? I just don't see it. So, they are really off with that claim. Way off. By at least 10 or even 15 years.
They go on:
Perhaps the Carter-Ford contest in 1976 was the last in which talk radio was so irrelevant to public opinion on candidates and issues. In retrospect, 1979 (the year the Iranian hostage crisis began) and 2004 (the year of George W. Bush's reelection) may well be regarded as bookends of talk radio's greatest influence on American politics.
Again, absurd. There was no real impact by talk radio during Ford's, Carter's Reagan's, and H.W. Bush's (first) elections. But, let's even take closer consideration of what "impact" they could even mean?
The only interpretation one can garner from their claim of “no major impact” must be the fact that Barack Obama handily beat John McCain at the polls. With that assumption, Tolz and Elman must be focusing on conservative talk radio. They also focus on Rush Limbaugh, further cementing that they are talking about a perceived failure of conservative talk radio in the 2008 election cycle.
Of Course, conservative talk radio is the battleship that cruises the talk radio airwaves these days. Yet, let's face facts. Talk radio does not have tremendous record of success at the polls. If you want to claim that it might be responsible for the outcome of elections talk radio is nothing to write home about. Talk radio twice could not beat Clinton and it couldn't beat Obama. If there were radio shows with national reach in 1976 (and there weren't) it didn't beat Carter, either. Even in the case of G.W. Bush -- if it even makes sense to ascribe his win to talk radio -- it was only by a slim margin, so “success” is relative there. Barely winning is not much of a success story to showcase the supposed power of talk radio.
So, what are these guys chortling about here? Their whole premise seems to be based on the "fact" that conservative talk radio has a long record of winning elections but even if we accept their claim at face value, the evidence is lacking. At best it has had but moderate success.
Tolz and Elman then go on to completely miss the meaning Limbaugh placed on his own efforts during the 2008 cycle to buttress their claims that talk radio somehow failed this time.
Consider some of the major stumbles this year by the medium's 800-pound gorilla. Rush Limbaugh vigorously promoted three separate political objectives over the past year, all of which failed: derailing John McCain's quest for the Republican nomination, sabotaging Barack Obama's drive for the Democratic nomination by fomenting Republican crossover votes for Hillary Clinton, and ultimately stopping Obama's march to victory in the general election. Contrast this with the impact talk radio once had on local taxes, the impeachment of Bill Clinton, congressional pay raises, a mandatory seat belt law, etc.
They get Rush's actions quite wrong here. Rush never once said that he wanted to keep John McCain from office. In fact, if that was his goal, why didn't he campaign for another candidate? Rush only highlighted when McCain was right and when he was wrong according to Rush's view of conservative principles. He obviously didn’t like McCain, but he announced no “get” McCain movement. Further, these guys completely misstate what Rush did with Hillary vs Obama. Rush repeatedly said he didn't give a flying burrito about which one of them was the Democrat nominee. Whether you agree with his actions or not, his goal was to create as much chaos in their Party as he could not to support or defat either of them.
Also, what "impact" did talk radio have on Clinton's impeachment, congressional pay raises and seat belt laws? Clinton wasn't convicted, pay raises always happen anyway, and seat belt laws are practically universal now. Looks like fail, fail and fail, to me. (In 2006, for instance, the Democrats tried to tie the pay raise to a raise in the minimum wage so no pay raise happened that year because the GOP opposed the minimum wage increases. It had zip to do with talk radio!)
Then we get another silly claim. Elman and Tolz lament that talk radio is no longer a "town meeting of the air." Gentlemen, talk radio has not been a "town meeting of the air" at least since Limbaugh debuted! Nor was it ever, really. Talk radio has always been about the host, not the callers. That perception, I think, is more gauzy nostalgia than reality on the part of the anthors, in any case.
I do have to say, however, that they might be onto something with one of their points. Just as newspapers are losing an audience to the wide diversity of news sources available out there, talk radio could soon find a similar effect hitting them. But, that is a might be. Most national talkers still enjoy strong ratings. So, even that point hasn't actually come to pass.
As to the rest, it seems pretty wide of the mark. In fact, the author’s overstatement seems geared solely to impute more importance to the subject of their book: Boston talk show host Jerry Willaims (Whose talk career started in 1960. Williams passed away in 2003).
Now, I have one more thing to say about these guys. I don't know if Tolz and Elman are liberal, conservative or other. And, while they may have been in talk radio, they sure don't seem to get talk radio.
National conservtive talk radio shows are not a direct political force. It never was. Conservative talk radio does serve to disseminate the meme, the conservative narrative or agenda. But talk radio does not push "politics" itself. To push politics is to push candidates, win elections, organize around local and national issues, become involved in door-to-door canvassing, ply the phones, email... all those things are real politics. Talk hosts do none of that. They develope a general political tone, yes, but politics is done by others. This is mostly because talk radio is first and foremost about the host (and his ratings), the general narrative comes second, and politics comes in a distant last. This is why I find it hard to say that talk radio is such a major player in politics directly. It is important for the conservative message, yes, but it is more around politics than in it.
In fact, I'd say that conservative talk radio only treads water trying to undue the damage that our schools cause in the American electorate. Conservative talk radio only puts Americans in touch with their conservative ideas. It's up to the listeners to then translate that into actual political action. It’s also up to the party to capitalize on it. And since talk radio is the most utilized source of conservative narrative today, I'd say its days are hardly numbered.
But, winning elections just isn’t a specific goal for national talk radio. Most especially because just focusing on a presidential election doesn’t a winning party make. Talk radio doesn’t control the Party and if the Party fails to act, elections get lost. We saw that this time.
Anyway, to say talk radio is finished as having some influence on national politics is just not right. But it also hasn’t the force that the authors ascribe to it. Talk radio never was the sort of power player that Elman and Tolz seem to think it was in the first place. So, since they start out with a misconception, it's easy to reach the conclusion they reached.
(Photo of Limbaugh: Lighthouse Patriot Journal)
(H/T the Mike Gallagher Radio Show)




















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If they really thought talk
November 16, 2008 - 13:04 ET by NewsbusterbrownIf they really thought talk radio was irrelevant, we wouldn't be hearing about the so-called Fairness Doctrine now.
“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
Exactly what I was
November 16, 2008 - 13:16 ET by ThisnThatExactly what I was thinking. But logical thinking isn't exactly a strong suit of the "intellectual liberal" now, is it?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
if one says it enough, one
November 16, 2008 - 13:24 ET by JIMMY1660if one says it enough, one believes it.BHO may have gotten BHO in the White House, talk radio will insure he keeps his hands clean.the MSM will not report any negatives, we need a watch dog, a mean one at that.
allow me to Love America
Dead Lines are Welcome? What?
November 16, 2008 - 13:42 ET by ConScottSo the callers are no longer important? Huh?
Sure, what host doesn't love a dead phone bank, especially on those days when a guest cancels? No worries, no fears, no dread....
I listen for alternative information, not
November 16, 2008 - 13:52 ET by Deskpilotto be brainwashed by the MSM. Because I spent a lot of time in may car during the day, I listened to talk radio, both local and national. (Now I have a gov't desk job that does not allow streaming on their network. First paycheck going to 24/7 membership for podcast access)
Michael Smerconish, (Phila and now metro D.C.) paints clear and intelligent conversations on both sides of the discussion forum. He hosts talk radio, not pushing a point. He engages his guests and his audience to discuss points on their merits, he refues to work in the parrot shop. When he takes a point that is different from the majority of his audience, especially in his endorsement of BHO, he laid out his argument carefully and succintly. A measurable number of listeners chose, as is there free will, to find another station, I chose to continue to participate in his show. I choose to stay engaged in the arena of ideas, and do my utmost to discuss the merits of my side of the argument.
Talk radio keeps me engaged in the discussion, allows me to hear and evaluate the points of others, even if I disagree with them. Audiences of talk radio are also given the opportunity to challenge the host and guests by asking pointed questions. The producers who manage the callers all seem to have marching orders that those who disagree go to the head of the line.
The threat of the resurgance of the Fairness Doctrine may be a red herring. With the proliferation of so many different sources of information and mediums for exchanging ideas, i think that this issue may be just stirring a distraction so that other, more devisive things may occur beneath the radar. But I think that elRushbo is too well connected to miss any nefarious goings on in D.C.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can still read it in English, You're welcome.
- Deskpilot, AM(H)1 (AW), USN (Ret)
My thoughts...
November 16, 2008 - 13:53 ET by jackie3The "fairness" doctrine is suddenly a major push and talk radio is "irrelevant." Mm, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that sounds suspicious. I would say it's just the opposite. Talk radio is now one of the few sources to find conservative views and with the last election's slanted main stream media reporting, more and more people will be searching out those other sources.
Oh, Brave New World...What joyous ignorance you harbor. The image of a new world order and a new world leader that has been transposed from you imagination onto a shady figure with a shadowy past.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
jackie3... Amen
November 16, 2008 - 16:37 ET by bigtimerjackie3...
Amen gal...Amen!
You said it all.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Yeah, we have heard this BS before.
November 16, 2008 - 13:57 ET by R D Helm-When Clinton was elected in1992, the MSM immediately declared Talk Radio, and specifically Rush Limbaugh, irrelevant.
-When Clinton was re-elected in 1996 (incidentally, this was the first electoral sign that this republic was in trouble) they said the same thing.
-Odly enough, when George W. Bush was elected in 2000, they said that Talk Tadio was now irrelevant for sure.
-They repeated this fantasy again in 2004, when GWB was re-elected.
-When the Republicans lost control of congress in 2006, they again lined up to tell us that Talk Radio is dead.
These idiots still can't get it right. What is more, if Talk Radio is as irrelevant as they think (wish) why are they trying so hard to have it shutdown?
Of course, these are the same MSM gomers that have been telling us for two decades that Ronald Reagan is no longer relevant, either.
-Dave
Did this country just elect Obama/Biden, or was it Soros/Ayers?
RD -- you beat me to the
November 16, 2008 - 14:00 ET by Jack BauerRD -- you beat me to the point!
Censorship Doctrine
November 16, 2008 - 13:58 ET by allanfLeftists know words matter. Let's give this doctrine a more fitting name, the Censorship Doctrine.
If conservative talk radio
November 16, 2008 - 13:59 ET by Jack BauerIf conservative talk radio has no effect, and is irrelevant....
how come the Democratic party, and the left, spend so much time, effort and money in trying to shut it down?
Excellent....
November 16, 2008 - 14:02 ET by JPR1....dissection of liberal blather Warner.
As I see it, any radio program is nothing more than a commodity. The intellect of a host produced and packaged for marketing and consumption. From "Freddie the Gardener" to the Limbaugh’s, Ingram’s, Boortz’s, if the public finds the product worthwhile it will generate revenue. If not, someone else will try something different. The role talk radio plays in the economy is significant. It's function as a means of marketing consumer goods and services must exceed the entertainment value of the programming
The technology available today precludes entirely any imbalance or shortcoming in the distribution of ideas or information. The Fairness Doctrine is an anachronism; utterly pointless.
Disrupting this economic "channel" would be a monumentally stupid act.
In my opinion this all but guarantees the liberals will attempt to do so.
Let's just agree with that.
November 16, 2008 - 14:19 ET by pbthinkerIf the Democrats and their media wing want to make this observation, it sounds good to me. Now, they can all stop trying to bring back the "fairness doctrine", which is certainly not fair, and leave talk radio alone, since it has lost all its power anyway.
Certainly, during this election cycle, talk radio didn't bring out enough of the Republicans to make a difference. Those that stayed home are going to understand, once Obama starts making his judicial selections and getting them green lighted in the Senate, just how foolish that was. I only wish that talk radio had hammered that aspect of this election, home every day.
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
Seatbelt law
November 16, 2008 - 14:42 ET by Alpedhuez55First one correction to the article. On the seatbelt laws, Jerry Williams went on a one man command repealed the seatbelt law. The legislature passed a seatbelt law in Massachusetts which came with a small decrease in Auto insurance rates. Williams almost exclusively devoted his show to support a ballot question that repealed it. Of course we got a much larger increase in Auto Insurance rates when it passed. That lasted all of a year or two when the Legislature passed a new law reinstateing the seatbelt law coupled by a small decrease in insurance rates.
So ultimately, the only winners there were the Auto insurance companies. There is a reason that companies like Geico and Progressive are not in Massachusetts. They are basically heavily regulated and there is basically no competition.
Also the Globe article does not mention Howie Carr. He is the most popular Talk Show host in Boston. He is also a popular columnist for the Boston Herald, their competing newspaper. So they would not dare mention him by name. That is why they mention Jerry Williams so much. Howie Carr was William's replacement.
As for talk radio in decline, I do not think that the ratings take into account the people who listen to AM radio over the internet. If you work in an office building, you cannot listen uless you sit near a window. The smaller range of AM Based talk radio typically means they are on more stations. So while a Boston FM Station may be heard in say a 60 mile radius, Howie Carr will be on four or five stations throughout the region.
So the Boston liberal FM station may appear to get higher ratings than Howie Carr, if you count the other stations within the area, Carr gets better ratings.
Plus lets face facts...Massachusetts in about as blue a state as there is. Talk Radio is the only place you can go to get a different opinion. People like myself have left Massachusets in large numbers. Expect them to lose another Cngressman in two year. They should have lost one in 2000.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form."
-- Winston Churchill
On the correction...
November 16, 2008 - 22:28 ET by Warner Todd HustonI realize Jerry Williams made it a big deal. But, ultimately, it was a meaningless and hallow victory because his success was short lived. Worse, it was only a local success that did not translate to a national one. And then it came back later anyway.
So, in the end, his success was meaningless. And that was my point. Talk radio isn't the force that the authors imagine it is.
Re,He,He,He,He,He,He,He,He-Heeeeeally!?
November 16, 2008 - 17:57 ET by CrashJudging by the print media's loss of circulation (a little joke there for the brain dead left) and CONSERVATIVE talk radio ratings at an all time high. I raise you a million and call your bluff.
»→ Crash
November 16, 2008 - 18:06 ET by Cool ArrowLack of circulation and nothing but low level brain activity?
I'd say the patient won't last long. Sorry, we need the Heart/Lung machine for the Big 3.
Pull the plug.
So Warner,
November 16, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Paul Gif I get the gist of this article, it is Rush really is irrelevent. Not that you're intending that but, He(Rush) keeps telling us theres millions of us out there...but I'm not seeing it.(yea I know he has 6-9 million listners)but I'm saying the overall picture... no matter why the billions of reasons why McCain lost, obviously to the American people there was a billion+1 reasons to vote for BHO. I don't understand it, but it is what it is.
WE that listen to Rush everyday ...it's like a religion. We just keep preaching and hearing the choir. We here at NB can bitch and vent (like me) but maybe as much as we love Rush and etal...were the same 'congregation'. I don't want to believe it, maybe we ARE the minority now. I dont care what the Pew poll says...maybe the majority of the American people now want to 'live on a hammock'
Trying to create reality... again
November 16, 2008 - 17:13 ET by Indiana JoeWell, they got Obama elected by constantly pushing his "greatness," and ignoring his weakness. Guess they think they can make the "demise of talk radio" the reality they wish it was.
I guess you can't blame them for trying. The power of the "big lie" is apparently alive and well, and we all know that any means to an end works for the left.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
How do we convince Limbaugh
November 16, 2008 - 19:37 ET by hirogen73How do we convince Limbaugh to smoke more?
»→ Don't know hiro
November 16, 2008 - 19:44 ET by Cool ArrowWhy would you want to?
I may be wrong but......
November 17, 2008 - 05:09 ET by old croFurther, these guys completely misstate what Rush did with Hillary vs
Obama. Rush repeatedly said he didn't give a flying burrito about which
one of them was the Democrat nominee. Whether you agree with his
actions or not, his goal was to create as much chaos in their Party as
he could not to support or defat either of them.
You stated the goal of Rush's operation chaos was to cause chaos. The real goal was that he was pushing hillery to stay in the race so she could "bloody" Ohhbama and get some kind of information out on him through the MSM. As we all saw, the MSM completely ignored anything controversial about Ohhbama during and after the primaries and then focused all their investigative muscle on whoever the Republican candidate picked for VP. For now, the MSM still controls the way most people get their info, or don't get it, in this case. The future may show talk radio and the internet overcoming the MSM and I will not put on my Carnac the Magnificent hat on and make a**hat predictions like these two fools, but for now the MSM still sets the agenda.
Conservative talk radio
November 17, 2008 - 22:44 ET by semolina_filcherConservative talk radio irrelevant? If anything, more ammunition than you can imagine. Every time BHO falters, you can bet Rush will be on top of it. Bet on it....