Apparently, the Chicago media have decided that the meme for the 2008 general election is going to be that anyone who doesn't vote for Barack Obama is a racist because this is the second editorial (that I've seen, anyway) in Chicago stating such a theory. Last week the Daily Herald voiced the assumption and this week it's the Sun-Times with the volatile Andrew Greeley taking up the cause of ridding the world of racism one Obama vote at a time.
Beginning with some meaningless banter where he throws around the names of a few Greek philosophers to sound erudite, Greeley then voices the fear that if Obama loses in November it might prove we are a racist country. "Sen. Barack Obama's victory, we are told by the cheering sections,"Greeley writes, "was a great victory for the American dream. Racism may well be in retreat... What if Obama is defeated? The whole world and most African Americans will scream 'racism!'" Greeley follows that with enough evidence for us to realize that he believes that the charge would be justified. He informs us that any vote against Obama has been thus far based on "bigotry," "racism," etc.
(My bold for emphasis)
In fact, only a little more than half of the Democratic voters chose the senator from Illinois as their candidate. Were the other voters racist? Influenced by racism? Inclined to racism, which they hide even from themselves? Surely all of these factors were at work, but it is virtually impossible with the current research technology to sort them out. Moreover, is the voter a bigot who says -- to himself or others -- "He's too young for it," "I don't know anything about him," "He's an elitist," "He's just a lot of fancy talk," "The country isn't ready for a man like that," "He's weak in his support of Israel," "He's Muslim, possibly the anti-Christ!" Are these hints of lurking prejudice? Are the voters of regular members of the Democratic coalition -- Hispanics and union members -- against Obama partly because of racism?
Slyly, he seems to be asking questions instead of answering them, positing a possibility instead of claiming it outright. Are these voters racists, he asks? This is the "question," but clearly Greeley thinks the answer is yes when he says "Surely all of these factors were at work," as well as what he gives us with his next lines.
How many of the male readers of this column who are habitues of bars, locker rooms, commuter train bull sessions, pool rooms and men's clubs have not heard the indigenous racial slurs of such environments applied to Obama?
And surely some of the explicit chatter during the campaign was racist, especially the obsession with the various clergy who mounted the pulpit of his church. By what stretch of sick logic could the candidate be responsible for what his clergy said and did?
I have one thing to say about the chatter Greeley claims is heard in "bars, locker rooms," et al. I'd suggest that he'd hear as many "racial slurs" in a certain Chicago Church that our Obamessiah recently ran from as if it were on fire. Only, the racial slurs you would hear would be aimed at "Whitey" not blacks. And, I'd dare say, we could find many, many places in this country where the racism expressed is against whites, Mexican, and Asians and would be being expressed by blacks. Despite what liberals try to fool us into believing, racism is not a thing solely perpetrated by whites against blacks.
Still, one might argue that Greeley is only asking questions. Let us put to rest this point with Greeley's liberal meme that we are all racists even if we don't seem to know it.
The point is that racism permeates American society and hides itself under many different disguises. The nomination of an African-American candidate was a near-miracle. Only the innocent and the naive think that the November election will not be about race.
The old saw that racism "permeates American society" as if we are somehow different than any other people on the planet is the favorite tactic set down in the old leftist playbook that is used to brow beat white people everywhere. If you don't act the racist or think racist thoughts, rest assured, you are a racist anyway. So says the liberal, PC mindset.
Even more ridiculously, Greeley foolishly assumes that a black person finding he is the nominee of a major American political party is a "near-miracle." Yet, we are in a day when blacks are in every section of society in leadership positions. We've had a black Secretary of State, a black security advisor and State Department head, blacks in the highest positions in business, sports and entertainment. There is no place in American society where blacks are excluded. So, why is it a "near-miracle" that a black man has been nominated for president?
Greeley is now past the asking of questions and right into the outright statement of fact from his long out-of-touch, old liberal perspective.
The odds against the replication of the primary miracle in November, even against a disgraced and discredited Republic administration, are very high.
Just a reminder, Mr. Greeley. Bush isn't running.
Race will silently trump the war, the economy, the cost of gasoline, the disgust with President Bush. One may wish that it will not be so, that if Obama loses it will not be because of the color of his skin but because the country genuinely wants another Republican administration.
And there you have it. Andrew Greeley is sure that we are all racists deep down. And, he is sure we'll prove it by voting for John McCain instead of the Obamessiah. Oh, evil America, we hardly knew ye!
(Photo credit: Reuters)














Comments Policy
Gee, I was wondering.......
June 11, 2008 - 18:33 ET by BEGRUNTwhen they would get to that.......sooner than I expected. Playing the race card is going to turn off the electorate, and blow up in their face. Go ahead, throw it around you morons, if you do, you've already lost. People will not be "guilted" to vote for Obamanation.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Comrade Obama
June 11, 2008 - 19:06 ET by 10ksnookerIs a Marxist that just happens to be black. If you don't want a Marxist as President, don't vote for Comrade Obama. Nothing racists about that.
Comrade Obama is his very own walking, jive talking, culture of corruption. I suppose that's racists as well.
Color, not Character? Hmmm.
June 12, 2008 - 08:45 ET by ChuckM from PAI guess what Dr. Martin Luther King said was wrong, perhaps it is the color of your skin that is more important that your character.
I read this bilious tripe
June 11, 2008 - 18:44 ET by Indiana JoeI read this bilious tripe today, and wanted to puke. He plays the typical "you're racist even if you're not" game so there's no arguing with his "logic" (very loose use of the term!). Proving once again that it's the leftists who can't shake their racism, and just project it on everyone else.
His pic shows him in a Roman collar. I'm ashamed that someone with this narrow, hateful mindset is a priest. Put him with Pfleger, and Chicago's RCC diocese looks pretty bad.
OTH, I'm glad Warner found this in the Sun-Times. I thought this guy was syndicated. At least he's not carried coast-to-coast.
Is he?
BG
June 11, 2008 - 18:48 ET by NortoI sure hope you are right, the only problem is that we have not put forward much of a choice for the electorate. You want a maverick for POTUS or someone who is ready to be the first POTUS to prosecute the previous POTUS for war crimes! Is this sick or what?
From Bush's comments yesterday in Potsdam, I think he thinks prosecution is possible(following 8 years of persecution) followed by a lifetime of more of the same.
Who is going to step up and be the write-in to sink the both of them?
The guilt factor is real. The international pressure will be heavy.
Norto, I agree with you that guilt is a real factor....however..
June 11, 2008 - 19:02 ET by BEGRUNTthe only people that will work on are the rich guilty white folks, i.e. Hollywood types. Outside of those idiots, I think it will turn most average people off. I see it in peoples faces, when the race card is played, they roll their eyes and say "here we go again". People are sick and tired of this guilt crap. With all that has been done since the Civil War, and it still isnt good enough? How much more?????? People, like myself, have had it with all this pissing and moaning, especially from an elitist.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Oh WTH...
June 11, 2008 - 18:49 ET by balboa...I...(gulp), I think I ag-g-g, I agrrr...
Iagreewithyouonthisone.
There. I said it. Now I'm just waiting for the lightning bolt.
Can't...
June 11, 2008 - 18:53 ET by Warner Todd HustonCan't talk... having... heart... attack... calling ... 9/11.... now what's that phone number, again?
WTH... I'm too busy ROFL
June 11, 2008 - 19:02 ET by bigtimerWTH...
I'm too busy ROFL or I'd help you out there...
Too danged funny!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
92% I'm a
June 11, 2008 - 18:50 ET by nicksmith11292%
I'm a refugee from the Democratic Party.
I predict right now
June 11, 2008 - 19:04 ET by jefflebowskithat if Obama loses in November, there will be riots in the streets of many major cities. The media is going to milk this "white racism" theme throughout the entire election cycle and will have many urban blacks whipped into a frenzy once Obama loses.
More white people will be turned against Obama because we are tired of being called racists merely because we don't vote for him. Also, many whites now clearly see that blacks appear to be the real racists in this country. Personally, I would gladly vote for a black person or a woman or whatever if they shared my conservatve political values and ideals. I am a white guy and am not voting for McCain.
But, mark my words, cities will burn!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
A little while back I wrote
June 11, 2008 - 19:08 ET by Warner Todd HustonA little while back I wrote an article that said that an Obama presidency will set American race relations back decades. His losing might, too.
jeff..........I hate to say it, but your.......
June 11, 2008 - 19:16 ET by BEGRUNTprobably right. I was here on the front lines during the Rodney King riots, and it doesnt take much to start it off. Especially when you had Mayor Bradley, and Maxine "I'm the Biggest bigot in the world" Waters tell people, on TV, to "Take your anger to the streets" we all know what followed. They both should have been charged with inciting to riot. Real responsible politicians huh?
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Begrunt, get out of there
June 11, 2008 - 19:36 ET by jefflebowskiwhile you can. There is a whole lot of saner places to live than California! Hell, Baghdad may even qualify!
Like they say, I'm not originally from Texas but I got here as fast as I could!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Jeff......I wish I could....
June 11, 2008 - 19:48 ET by BEGRUNTI have too many roots here. You would think after 20 years in the LASD, I would leave after all I've seen. As much as I hate what California, and especially L.A. have become, this is still my home. I'm one of those squeeky wheels knawing away at the stupidity of our electorate, a lone sane voice among the insane. Your right, Baghdad is safer than L.A., regardless of what that imbecile Bratton says.
BTW, I like your website.........
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Begrunt
June 11, 2008 - 21:39 ET by jefflebowskiwell at least we'll have one sane voice out there. If you ever change your mind, we'll leave a light on for you here in Texas.
Thanks for the kind words on the website and I welcome all of my NB friends to participate (even Balboa). I am trying to pattern it after the incredible quality of Newsbusters but have tons of work to do.
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Thanks jeff.......
June 11, 2008 - 21:53 ET by BEGRUNTI had a buddy stationed at Randolph AFB. I visited, I like San Antonio, beautiful city, Alamo etc., but the humidity KILLED me. Sorry, I still prefer L.A. Still, a nice place to visit, although I will do it in February or March next time.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Begrunt, I'm in Dallas
June 11, 2008 - 21:57 ET by jefflebowskiI'm in Dallas (the friendliest city in northern Mexico) and I love it here. San Antone is tooooo hot for me. I love Texas and the country music here is the greatest hands down. That Nashville crap doesn't compare!
If you ever get up this way, let me know and we'll do it right!
Jeff Lebowski
Thanks jeff......will do!!
June 11, 2008 - 22:04 ET by BEGRUNT"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
DFW vs. SAT
June 12, 2008 - 04:20 ET by UnsaneSan Antonio is too hot for you??? Every time I look at TX weather this time of year, Dallas is easily hotter than San Antonio!
(Though, since were are closer to the Gulf, I'd bet the humidity is worse.)
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
Evening jeff... I too
June 11, 2008 - 19:20 ET by bigtimerEvening jeff...
I too posted same sentiments along your lines I think yesterday somewhere...anyway...I don't think whole cities will burn, but there will be pre-planned riots and tons of intentional damage done, fueled by the msm along with the leftist party and trial lawyers behind the scenes.
Recreate 68 in Denver will be nothing.....
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Bigtimer
June 11, 2008 - 19:33 ET by jefflebowskiit will be nasty for Atlanta, DC, Detroilet, Chicago, LA, NYC, Cleveland, etc. I agree with Warner Todd, this election will set race relations back a long way. But maybe that is what needs to happen. For too long white people have paid the bills and taken the blame for everything that is wrong with black America. We hide in fear that we will be called "racist" by some black POS preacher or leftwing pinhead. It's always funny when someone like Imus or that bounty hunter or any other white public person gets accused of racism, they immediately go and kiss the a** of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. I'd tell them all to kiss my big white racist a**!
Jeff Lebowski
www.angrywhitedude.c...
jeff... I could not agree
June 11, 2008 - 19:39 ET by bigtimerjeff...
I could not agree more!
Plus remeber how many times and how many shows Trent Lott went on and apologized...it still wasn't enough for the msm...I was screaming at the television when Lott was on with about his fiftieth apology to PLEASE stop already...as far as I was concerned he had absolutely nothing to apologize for...on and on it goes...
By the way any of you check out the link jeff has, it is very interesting, informative...and speaks out loud and clear for a lot of us out here! I widhed I had tons of time in the day to go there often and comment.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Hi bt... Normally I agree
June 11, 2008 - 19:37 ET by Clear thinkerHi bt...
Normally I agree with you, but on this one I'm afraid it's gonna get real ugly. Denver is going to a Paradise for Anarchists around the country to come and show how stupid they are. The sad part is.... their stupidity will lead to lot's of blood.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct... Hey it's not that I
June 11, 2008 - 19:49 ET by bigtimerCt...
Hey it's not that I disagree with any of you about riots ect....I have posted that too on other days...I guess what I am trying to say is that I think these cities are already going to be prepared...I just don't think they are going to let it get completely out of total control...
I know people will also be bussed in, along with other groups like ANSWER ect leading the way...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt...
June 11, 2008 - 19:57 ET by Clear thinkerMy only hope is.... the Cops are loaded for Bear and take ZERO crap from the protestors.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct... Me too. The msm
June 11, 2008 - 20:12 ET by bigtimerCt...
Me too.
The msm will be totally happy though and televise it all...with glee.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Yep! ON CAMERA... Every
June 11, 2008 - 20:17 ET by Clear thinkerYep!
ON CAMERA... Every Anchor will be forcing tears as they report the riots.
OFF CAMERA... Then go out for a few drinks with their buds and slap each other on the back about how great their ratings will be.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct... Yep, I agree, with
June 11, 2008 - 20:23 ET by bigtimerCt...
Yep, I agree, with the exception they will be using the new and improved fist bump or whatever the heck it's called...instead of the slap on the back, calling it solidarity...
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Evening bt........just what the.......
June 11, 2008 - 20:36 ET by BEGRUNTheck is this "fist bump, pump" whatever? Is it a new make a statement de jour? Geez, I have kids ranging from 21 down to 14, and I dont get this pump, bump thing. I guess I'm just getting old and crotchety.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
C'mon now, get with the
June 11, 2008 - 20:59 ET by balboaC'mon now, get with the lingo. It's called "the terrorist fist jab" according to E.D. from FNC.
LOL bal...............
June 11, 2008 - 21:02 ET by BEGRUNT"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Hi boa...I heard about that
June 11, 2008 - 21:09 ET by bigtimerHi boa...I heard about that today somewhere...
Oh well...
Begrunt...do not feel alone whatsoever...as far as I am concerned no matter what, it isn't Presidential...but then what do I know anymore...we had the womanizing, lying, rapist, Clinton in for two terms...so times they have a changed.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
bt, I agree.....
June 11, 2008 - 21:19 ET by BEGRUNTwhen a candidate tries to imitate pop culture, that is definately un-presidential. Again, trying to be all to everyone, will only please no one.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Did you think Bush's fun at
June 11, 2008 - 21:21 ET by balboaDid you think Bush's fun at the Naval Academy graduation was un-presidential?
Yes bal, I did..................
June 11, 2008 - 21:26 ET by BEGRUNTIts pandering, no matter who does it. It was embarrassing to watch.
"If a man does his best, what else is there"?
General George S. Patton Jr.
Also
June 11, 2008 - 21:30 ET by Warner Todd HustonI am against ANY president attending that damnably STUPID National Press Dinner every year and doing the comedy routine at the podium. THAT is so gauche, so unpresidential, so beneath the office that I can't believe any president goes to the idiotic thing.
The more the msm of all
June 11, 2008 - 18:52 ET by bigtimerThe more the msm of all venues keep attempting to cram this down every-one's throat daily....the more this is going to make people angry...
Let's see what's that called when people revolt because of the msm....
BACKFIRE!
At this rate McCain better hope so anyway...of course if he does win, he will apologize.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Wilson
Is it Greely or Greeley?
June 11, 2008 - 18:54 ET by DelsaGreeley was an anti viet nam war protester, X catholic priest, and writer of soft porn.
Which ever one it is I don't care. No matter what they say I still will not vote for the Marxist!
Period.
Just check the link
June 11, 2008 - 18:59 ET by Indiana JoeIt's "Greeley." Yeah, I'm sure it's the same one. Didn't know he wrote "soft porn," though. And glad to hear he's an EX-priest, although he still uses a pic of himself wearing the collar. Guess he didn't get the memo.
Delsa was just giving me a
June 11, 2008 - 19:05 ET by Warner Todd HustonDelsa was just giving me a jab. I spelled Greeley's name wrong in my headline when I first posted the story. I forgot the last "e."
As to the "soft porn" Greeley was early known for his sex filled, pulp novels earlier in his career. Those steamy novels got him in trouble with the Church.
Thanks Warner
June 11, 2008 - 19:10 ET by DelsaYou recall as I remembered
I think I read
June 12, 2008 - 00:36 ET by DEVILDOCMOMpart of one of his books years ago...put it away, not to my liking no matter how much the press pushed him as an author.
BTW, since when do we as Americans have to care what ANY country thinks of our Presidential decision, let alone a country who would have people who would burn the wife of an opposition leader alive after chopping off her feet and a hand. PLEASE.
Actually, Indiana Joe
June 11, 2008 - 19:08 ET by DelsaI missed the picture of him. He may be an active priest? But he has semi retired.
He wrot a book considered to be soft porn. The title of it is something like "Memories of a Parish Priest".
He has made a lot of money writing books. He is always bashing the church and he hates Republicans and non socialist thinkers.
I have disliked him for many moons.
He'll just have to call me racist.
"He'll just have to call me racist."
June 11, 2008 - 19:18 ET by Indiana JoeMe too. And, coming from him, I'll wear the mantle proudly.
You are RACIST if you allow
June 11, 2008 - 18:56 ET by mostlymoderateYou are RACIST if you allow the color of a candidates skin influence your vote. Therefore, 90%+ black people are racist bigots.
Is there a point or any
June 11, 2008 - 19:25 ET by balboaIs there a point or any situation, as a minority, where voting for someone of your ethnicity is seen as supporting your minority -- in face of the majority -- and not racist?
Sure, bal
June 11, 2008 - 20:07 ET by Indiana JoeWhen you vote for someone because you agree with his views and ideas, regardless of his race. To vote for OR against someone because of his race is racist voting.
By definition, I would say that using your vote to "support your minority" is racist.
Of course, what do I know? I'm just some white guy.
Racism 2008
June 11, 2008 - 19:09 ET by PeterDYup. There will be extreme racism in this presidential election. Millions of Americans will not vote for a candidate because of his skin color. Millions of Americans will not vote for McCain solely because he's white.
And that my friends is racism, pure and simple.
Peter... Racism will be
June 11, 2008 - 19:54 ET by Clear thinkerPeter...
Racism will be stoked by the left, not the right during the next few months. It will go something like this.... The MSM will be telling Americans (in support of the Dem nominee), in very sneaky ways, that we must overcome our racism and vote for their saviour. This will be repeated in many different ways, but will be repeated over and over. Becuase the MSM and the Dems are so dumb, they won't know when to give it a break. This will then cause a major backlash because people will be sick and tired of being called a racist, and it will show up in the voting booth. Once Obama goes down in flames their will be riots in some major cities because the MSM and the Dems will blame the Republicans.
How sick is that?
"Abstain from McCain"
so wait.... was
June 11, 2008 - 19:41 ET by Insane Chipmunkso wait....
was Greeley calling Hillary's supporters racists then?
I wonder how'd they react.
Whatever happened to 'excommunication'?
June 11, 2008 - 20:03 ET by SickofLibsI'm an active Catholic, so I can say Greeley should just keep his GD moonbat liberal mouth shut and just minister to the faithful, like he was ordained to do.
The Church has plenty enough issues to deal without having 'outspoken' moron-priests like Greeley and Pfleger spewing this secular BS.
Pfleger's boss cardinal is a wuss for not canning him even after a direct, insulting, public challenge (Fire me then), and I further believe the Pope should issue a blanket edict "Shit the f---ck up" or find a job in another 'more enlightened' religion.
BHO is more pro-abortion than Planned Parenthood (a baby is a punishment; baby survives an abortion and is left to die on a table which BHO thinks is good idea)
Greeley and his ilk should be EXCOMMUNICATED IMMEDIATELY just on principle (if there's any principles left, which apparently there isn't).
The Knights of Columbus recently sent out an announcement that local councils were forbidden to invite as speakers or present any awards to any politician who is outspokenly pro-abortion... that's sticking to your guns. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT an anti-abortion nut; but priests/ministers/rabbis/whatever just need to do their jobs and stay the hell out of politics.
Just leave that to MSNBC.
Appealing to force &
June 11, 2008 - 20:04 ET by FairlightAppealing to force & argument by slogan seems to be the entire Obama campaign strategy.
No wonder so many Democrats are switching parties: their leaders use K-Mart as their one-stop-shop for candidates and arguments.
Meaningless
June 11, 2008 - 23:05 ET by KC MulvilleGreeley supposes that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is racist. He refuses to accept any proof to the contrary, claiming that anyone who denies it is secretly deceiving himself. For the sake of verification, Greeley resorts to an anecdotal assumption about what he supposes to have been said in bars and locker rooms. The statement can be disproved, but Greeley simply dismisses any proof that doesn't support his prejudice.
Since he won't entertain evidence to the contrary, and his proof is rooted in his own prejudice, he's just talking to himself. He's the lunatic on the park bench having a private conversation out loud.
I'd just walk around him and leave him alone. Best not to disturb him.
I am a die-hard Obama
June 12, 2008 - 03:55 ET by Cureboy675I am a die-hard Obama fanatic. But editorials like this Chicago Sun Times crap are just plain dangerous. Do I want Obama to be President? Hell yeah. But do I want him to be President because newspapers have laid a guilt trip on white people in order to get him into office? No I honestly don't. To me, that's just as bad as scaring somebody into voting for a candidate with talk of terrorism attacks and such stuff.
I have to believe that even a prejudiced person would vote for a black man...If that black man offered them an economic plan that would make their lives easier...And a platform that was similiar to their personal beliefs and the exact polar opposite of the opposing candidate. It just makes no sense to vote against your interests because of your own prejudice. Or maybe I'm being too much of an optimist. Who knows?
I mean...Even the most conservative Republicans would vote a Drag Queen into office if said Drag Queen offered a platform that was similiar to their own beliefs and the exact polar opposite of what the clean cut, straight white man with 3 kids and a dog was offering.
OK, I'm rambling. But my point? Please don't believe that every Obama supporter has this downright stupid belief that anybody who refuses to vote for him is a racist. Its just a shame...Actually its disgusting...that an operation like the Chicago Sun Times would take track.
Its just as stupid as saying anybody who didn't vote for Hilary Clinton must be sexist. Or anybody who doesn't vote for John McCain must have a bias against older people.
OK. I know I'm preaching to the choir, so I'll shut up :)
Question
June 12, 2008 - 04:23 ET by UnsaneWhy do you want Obama to be President? What will he do if he gets into office that you like?
Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.
No, I don't remember much at
June 12, 2008 - 04:56 ET by Cureboy675No, I don't remember much at all about Jimmy Carter...Except for that Habitat for Humanity thing. But I do know he had a heck of a lot of issues...He was pretty much bone-head foolish...And one of the most unsuccessful Presidents in history.
I could sit here and list my reasons for choosing Obama. But it will inevitably end with somebody calling me naive and foolish and some kind of socialist. One of the most important things to me is getting most of our troops out of Iraq.
Now having said that, I expect to hear charges of surrender and giving into terrorists. But I actually do believe that it was a good thing to get rid of Saddam Hussein. I just wish it would have been done after more thought and preparation and anticipation for what could have gone wrong. And John McCain scares me because he seems to be the type who has a similiar mentality: "Invade and declare war now...Worry about the logistics of it after the fact". I know you disagree...But I doubt either of us will sway the other to their side.
I was just trying to make a point about this Chicago Sun Times foolishness.
You are also obviously not
June 12, 2008 - 06:19 ET by NL207You are also obviously not old enough to remember Vietnam either. I don't not think you have ever served in either peacetime or wartime.
If you think summarily withdrawing US Troops from the conflict in Iraq is a service to any of the American people, US Troops, or Iraqi citizenry, you are sadly mistaken.
What happened in Vietnam and in the US after our withdrawal there?
The enemy prevailed in all of SE Asia. Mass murders into the millions of people. "re-education camps". Refugees by the hundreds of thousands. Tyranny over tens of millions. freedom's candle was extinguished. The enemy, Soviet Communism, was emboldened to continue their struggle. In a way, our failure of national will in Vietnam can be seen as the green light to further Soviet attempts at expansion, such as Afghanistan.
At home, hundreds of thousands of veterans, and more particularly, the friends and family of the 58,000 who died in combat came to see their sacrifices as wasted. The national confidence was shaken to the core. Mindless liberals were empowered to do even more harm on a National scale, culminating in the disastrous Carter presidency.
The litany of ill effects from another failure of national will in Iraq will, in my estimation, be even higher because of the ideological nature of this enemy. This is what you are supporting.
if that is the only reason,
June 12, 2008 - 06:26 ET by Conservative Voiceif that is the only reason, vote for Bob Barr.
Cureboy, if you don't
June 12, 2008 - 06:52 ET by motherbeltCureboy, if you don't remember much about Jimmy Carter, you probably don't remember much about us "ending" the Viet Nam war either.
But that's OK...if Obama is elected, you will get to see a reprise of what "Peace with honor" (Nixon's euphemism for our abandonment of South Viet Nam) brings.
We are able to adjust
June 12, 2008 - 06:55 ET by expatriotWhen you talk about John McCain being of the same mentality of President Bush you forget who it is that actually executes the will of the civilian leaders. It is the military.
We don't always get it right but we do for the most part look at our proformances and adjust so that we do better. The United States Military will never go into another situation without preparing and planning for the final phase of that operation. The final phase is the stability security where the conditions are set so that the host government and its underlying agencies can run the country.
The military has weeded out the dead wood that was present at the beginning of this conflict and replaced it with the likes of Gen Patreus and HR McMaster. You will know Gen Patreus' name but probably not McMaster. Both fine leaders from the new crop that is being developed.
Look at the history of the United States entering conflicts, this is known as military history and is not taught in hi skool or kolledge, and you will see that we usually don't start out too well but end up being the dominant power at the end. It is not coincidence, rather it is a testimony to the United States and the citizens who inhabit the country.
Obviously you are not old
June 12, 2008 - 04:34 ET by NL207Obviously you are not old enough to remember Jimmy Carter. Based on what I have seen of Obama's personal advisors, friends, and his voting record in the Senate, an Obama Presidency will make people wish for the good old days of the Carter Years.
how can you let these
June 12, 2008 - 04:35 ET by nicksmith112how can you let these demo-flip-floppers and their loony lefty buddy's in the media re-write their history?
They hate their country. they hate their military. remember the daily story's about our military being illiterate rapists baby murderers???
I have an idea.
"On this date in Loony Liberal Land"
Post articles from "This date" 2004/2005...when the Keith Olberloons were shitting all over our brave men and woman in the military and other wild loony anti-American accusations that were never true but fueled the hate America rhetoric!
I'm a refugee from the Democratic Party.
Character not color? Hmmm.
June 12, 2008 - 08:42 ET by ChuckM from PAI guess what Dr. Martin Luther King said was wrong, perhaps it is the color of your skin that is more important that your character.