A small paper in South Carolina called The Statesman indulged in some blatant hetero bashing this week in a story about a high school principal who resigned because of his convictions that the school should not allow a homosexual club to be started in his school. Naturally, the paper tries to make it seem as if the principal is an unreasonable bigot. The paper even conveniently forgot the part of the principal's resignation letter that clearly explains why he disagreed with allowing a club based on sexual activity in a high school -- and the explanation had nothing to do with any anti-gay sentiment.
The headline of the piece, "Irmo principal to resign after gay club approved for school," frames this as if homosexuality was the only issue here but that is only an ancillary problem as far as the principal is concerned. The first line of the story affirms that the paper views the principal as a bigot.
The principal of Irmo High School has opted to resign rather than share his campus with an organization for gay students.
How rude of Principal Eddie Walker, eh? The headline seems to scream "what's this guy's problem?"
The Statesman also allows the controversy to be framed as a "civil rights" issue, even though it is no such thing.
Gay-rights group Faith in America says Walker's decision is based on prejudice that is harmful to students and likened his decision to policies that once allowed segregation to flourish.
Now we are likening keeping a sex club out of a high school with "segregation"? Talk about absurd and dangerous hyperbole.
The Statesman then excerpts Principal Walker's resignation letter to the fact that he was resigning because of a "recent conflict involving my professional and religious beliefs" concerning the approval of the gay club by the school board. Conveniently for the paper's pro-gay bias, however, they left out the full explanation of why the principal was resigning, making it seems as if his bigoted religious beliefs was all there was to it.
Here is the part the paper "forgot" to include in the story:
The formation of this club conflicts with my professional beliefs in that we do not have other clubs at Irmo High school based on sexual orientation, sexual preference, or sexual activity. In fact our sex education curriculum is abstinence based. I feel the formation of a Gay/Straight Alliance Club at Irmo High school implies that students joining the club will have chosen to or will choose to engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex, opposite sex, or members of both sexes.
This is exactly right on. Why are we promoting "clubs" in a high school based on sexual activity? Do we have a porno club at Irmo high school? Why not? How about a polygamy club? Maybe a bestiality club?
In fact, we don't want to be encouraging kids to be interested in ANY club that would promote sexual activity, do we? Just as Principal Walker said -- and the paper refused to report -- we do not want to encourage our students toward sexual activity at all.
Ridiculously, the cowards at the school board who haven't the spine to stand up to these radical gay activists are hiding behind a Federal law.
"...our attorneys have advised us that because Irmo High School has permitted the formation of a number of non-curricular clubs at the school, the federal law known as the Equal Access Act does not permit the school to discriminate against a club based on the club's purpose and viewpoint by not allowing it to form unless the purpose of the club is unlawful."
Like I said, if the kids wanted to form a "club" that supports pornography, would that be OK? After all, porn is legal. How about a "club" that promotes dancing strippers? A beer drinking club? How about a club that specifies support of terrorists? One that promotes Jew hatred, supports the KKK, the Nazis, gangs, the Black Panthers or Louis Farrakhan? Wouldn't the school have a vested interest in stopping these sorts of clubs based on hatred, anti-Americanism, and anti-social behavior? Is the school so bereft of moral convictions that they'd bend over for every socially backward and dangerous "club" to be formed just because the kids wanted it?
But all that aside, why did The Statesman decide not to give a full report about exactly why Principal Walker was resigning? Was it because reporting only some of the facts made Mr. Walker seem less sympathetic and more homophobic?
Looks like it to me.
Irmo principal Eddie Walker's resignation letter (PDF)
Lexington 5 statement on Eddie Walker resignation (PDF)
(Photo credit: TV10 Tampa)
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Equal Access
May 21, 2008 - 20:36 ET by scamoramaDamn!
I sure wish there'd been an Equal Access Law when I was in school. There absolutely would have been a "Porn Club" at CHS.
To quote a wise man, "I guarantee!"
Political Correctness Is Destroying the USA!
May 21, 2008 - 20:46 ET by jefflebowskiCan anyone imagine this happening 25 years ago? Why is it wrong for someone to not like homosexuality? I don't. Political correctness has taught us how we must think or act...or there is something wrong with us! A principal can be against a gay club because he would be also against a club promoting any sexuality...but heaven forbid that he just outright doesn't like homosexuality!
Political correctness is destroying us and we are stupid to just sit back and let it happen. Let's face it...the only person who can be criticized or ridiculed is the white male in this country!
Jeff Lebowski - Angry White Dude (heterosexual too, thank you very much)
don't worry so much - God
May 21, 2008 - 20:55 ET by TruthMongerdon't worry so much - God eventually steps in...
like Sodom, Gamorrah, Roman Empire...
He don't do PC, has a temper too - so I'll be standing well out of the way
over there ------------------------------------------------>
tMonger, So when did the God Nuk Rome?
May 22, 2008 - 00:35 ET by upcountrywaterThe Art Bellian abducted folk equate brimstone and fire to H-bombs and such.
With regards to God's way of doing the greening to His creation..
who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to
you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men,
inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof,” (Gen. 19:8).
The context of
this verse is that two angels had visited Lot in Sodom in an effort
to get him to leave the city since it was about to be destroyed.
Apparently these two angels appeared in the form of men.
Meanwhile, many of the men of the city, who were homosexual, wanted
to have relations with the two men, not knowing they were really
angels. But, Lot offered his daughters to the crowd of people
instead. The crowd refused the daughters and began to
forcibly enter Lot's home in order to abduct the two men/angels so
that they might molest them sexually. The angels then blinded
the people in the crowd and the crowd partied on.
Pillers of salt in Rome Italy?
Rome was next week? a year later? when EXACTLY
oh yea maybe next year?
Ain't really waiting for a reply..
kuz
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
God may not have rained
May 22, 2008 - 09:06 ET by taterGod may not have rained fire and brimstone on the Roman Empire but the combination of social and moral decay (along with health problems and political corruption) are what led to the decline of the empire. Read up...they allowed abortion, infanticide, homosexuality, other sexual debauchery. Human beings against what God wants is what led to the decline. I fear the USA is well on it's way.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
tater, you missed the point. YOU "Read-up"
May 22, 2008 - 13:48 ET by upcountrywaterWhere are the BIBLE PASSAGES discribing; brimstone and fire leveling Rome?
Where is Lot or his counter-part, packing up and running out of the city, before this happened?
This IS MY point.
Rome was humming along just fine, 200 years AFTER the Bible was written.
I fear the USA is well on it's way.
Yea me too
Liberals62%
IranianUranium
why do we need Bible
May 22, 2008 - 15:45 ET by TruthMongerwhy do we need Bible passages for this?
God did not retire on January 1, 0 A.D. my friend...
try Sunday school - it's fun - and you get to make crafts...
don't listen to that
May 22, 2008 - 15:43 ET by TruthMongerdon't listen to that UCW!
the Roman empire is still going strong - my mistake
you go girl
I think I meant the SF49ers, not Rome
Gay Club
May 21, 2008 - 21:17 ET by WR JonasIt's so difficult to read this report and to not feel like we are doomed.
Are there any concerned parents left in America ? How can the people of Irmo , South Carolina allow their children to be manipulated or worse , recruited by these deviates ?
The press is simply the propaganda arm of the Liberal Democratic Party. I cannot imagine how Mr. Walker must feel.
The big problem is
May 21, 2008 - 21:29 ET by jefflebowskiLAWYERS! Independent School Districts are scared to death of them! And scumbag lawyers (sorry to be redundant) just salivate over some rediculous lawsuit against the ISD and their deep pockets.
The fear of lawsuits has led to this lunacy. Also, it has brought on other school rules that prohibit your child not being able to take a aspirin to school or be suspended. I hate lawyers. I hate lawyers. I hate lawyers.
WR Jonas
May 21, 2008 - 21:55 ET by shawn228No one is forcing the children of these parents to join these clubs. The people just want the right to have their own clubs.
So, wanting a club and not
May 21, 2008 - 22:46 ET by CortillaenSo, wanting a club and not forcing people to join should be the only requisites for forming one? What if I were to demand the right to form a pornography club and place fliers all over campus? I'm not forcing anyone to join by doing so. How about a club dedicated to wishing for the death of Democrats? I'm sure that would go over swell. </sarc>
Wanting something has, and will, never make getting it acceptable. The simple fact is that this club is literally based around sex, and the principle could not agree with that. Personally, I don't believe the school should be endorsing sexuality either.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Cort
May 21, 2008 - 22:50 ET by shawn228This has already been addressed. These children are too young to view pornography or anything than can be viewed by a minor.
As far as wishing for the death of somebody, you have to be a member of Kos or Du for that.
Congrats on
May 21, 2008 - 23:38 ET by CortillaenCongrats on missing/avoiding the point. Desiring a club does not make forming it appropriate. Most people would not find it appropriate for the school to sanction a club explicitly based on sexuality.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Its not just about sexuality Cort
May 22, 2008 - 08:20 ET by shawn228Even in this day and age, some gays feel like outcast. Heck even the author of this thread compared them to pediphiles.
They want to have a place to discuss how they should feel in society and get together. You make it sound like, they want to have huge gay orgy in the cafeteria
I've encouraged my son and
May 21, 2008 - 23:31 ET by contraryI've encouraged my son and his friends to form a alcohol club. He has been on and off again for the last 3 months, but getting together with fellow drinking buddies could be a good way to find identity. Think I'll bring this story to the principal's attention. Thanks for the information
"Republicans always get a huge pass on the racist issue. Huck is just another example. Provided they don't start up with the N word, they seem able to pander directly to the racist vote."
-- Chuck Davis, intellectual heavyweight, bigot
contray
May 21, 2008 - 23:38 ET by shawn228Just like my post to Cort regarding pornography. Drinking under 21 is illegal. Schools don't want to promote anything illegal. They also don't want to promote killing of any race, unless you agree with Warner that being gay is similar to Nazis and the KKK.
What has legality have to
May 21, 2008 - 23:42 ET by contraryWhat has legality have to do with a desire for kids to find common ground?
"Republicans always get a huge pass on the racist issue. Huck is just another example. Provided they don't start up with the N word, they seem able to pander directly to the racist vote."
-- Chuck Davis, intellectual heavyweight, bigot
contrary
May 22, 2008 - 00:03 ET by shawn228We are not talking about common ground. We are talking about what kind of club should be allowed at school.
So of course a club that promotes drinking, drugs, or pornography should not be allowed because it is agains the law for kids that are under age.
Also any clubs that promote violence toward others should not be allowed, because it would make certain races scared for their physical being.
Are you insinuating the
May 22, 2008 - 00:09 ET by contraryAre you insinuating the club would be used as an excuse to coordinate underage drinking? That’s ridiculous! The whole point of this club would be to promote abstinence from drinking. Certainly any school wouldn’t want to discriminate against people who might have problems in that area. You don’t hate “drinkers” do you? Obviously, the club founders have articulated their intentions to the principal and taken responsibility in what the club does.
Why do you keep bringing up violence, drug use and pornography? Did you have a bad experience as a kid? If only you had a club to talk about these things.
"Republicans always get a huge pass on the racist issue. Huck is just another example. Provided they don't start up with the N word, they seem able to pander directly to the racist vote."
-- Chuck Davis, intellectual heavyweight, bigot
but isn't gay sex under the
May 22, 2008 - 15:48 ET by TruthMongerbut isn't gay sex under the age of 18 illegal too...?
more damn discrimination:(
I disagree Warner
May 21, 2008 - 21:51 ET by shawn228I do not see how setting up a Homosexual club in anyway promotes having sex. It just shows you prefer to be with someone of your own gender.
Your right pornography is legal, but last time I checked, viewing pornography and dancing strippers and beastiality when you are under 18 is illegal.
As far as KKK, Farakhahn and Nazi gangs. I can't believe that you could even compare the two. Gays just want to be together, they do not want to do harm to others and promote hate like your other examples.
BS
May 21, 2008 - 21:58 ET by Warner Todd HustonDo you pay attention to the news at all?
Warner
May 21, 2008 - 22:02 ET by shawn228There are some hard core liberals that promote hate and are very sensitive and use the term "intolerance" any chance they get.
However, with the exception of your pornography and adult them examples. The KKK promotes killing blacks and Nazis want to kill blacks and jews.
I simply do not see how you can compare the two.
Quite a leap from gays to
May 21, 2008 - 22:06 ET by balboaQuite a leap from gays to KKK and Nazis, huh.
Radical Gays
May 21, 2008 - 22:06 ET by Warner Todd HustonRadical gays want to "kill" quite a few things
Religion
Marriage
Children's innocence and freedom from sexual exploitation
Seems pretty evil to me.
And how many of these
May 21, 2008 - 22:16 ET by balboaAnd how many of these "radical gays" are in a typical high school? What's the comparison of radical gays to radicals of other stripes in high school like those nutjobs in the AV Club?
Warner
May 21, 2008 - 22:17 ET by shawn228Your talking about radical gays. The majority of them just want to be left alone, so they can be free to express themselves in public.
Radical Christians bomb abortion clinics. They certainly do not repressent the majority of God fearing Church goers.
Since you choose to state
May 22, 2008 - 04:01 ET by mister josephSince you choose to state "Radical Christians bomb abortion clinics," would you mind backing up your statements? I'd like to know about this common practice that seems to be dragged out as an attack on Christians.
<I>The majority of them just want to be left alone, so they can be free to express themselves in public. </i>
They are left alone, if they don't express themselves in public! You can't demand visibility and then turn around and expect privacy.
Would radical gays start
May 22, 2008 - 08:05 ET by general companyWould radical gays start clubs in High Schools to promote their life style?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
M. Joseph, I think his
May 22, 2008 - 08:06 ET by JasonCM. Joseph, I think his precise point was that it's NOT common.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
thx Jason
May 22, 2008 - 08:14 ET by shawn228That was precisely my point. There are radicals from any group.
Gays want to harm people and
May 21, 2008 - 22:04 ET by balboaGays want to harm people and promote hate?
I can see what you're saying that this is a club built around a sexual preference. I think that the guidelines of the club are what need to be addressed, what is the club's goal, what will its meetings consist of?
If the sole theme of the
May 21, 2008 - 22:14 ET by NL207If the sole theme of the club and common ground of its members is homosexuality, then what exactly do YOU think they will be doinig at their meetings?
If I opened a club whose sole stated purpose was for heterosexuals to come together and share something, what would you suppose was going on at that club?
You couldn't be that dense could you?
Yes I'm dense. How very
May 21, 2008 - 22:17 ET by balboaYes I'm dense. How very observant of you. Thanks for adding so much. You're a real contributor of value on this board.
Their goals?
May 21, 2008 - 22:17 ET by jefflebowskiMaybe they can plan a trip to the local church and make out in front of the parishoners. They're so peaceful and respectful.
that would be very disrespectul jeff
May 21, 2008 - 22:31 ET by shawn228The church does not agree with homosexuality, so it would be very disrespectul for a gay person to do that.
The school is not a church and there is separation of church and state.
Curiously
May 21, 2008 - 22:33 ET by Warner Todd HustonCuriously enough, those religious folks you talk about would NOT BE ALLOWED to have a club in that same school. Yet, these NAMBLA types apparently ARE allowed to! Seems a bit askew to me.
"NAMBLA types." Well, that
May 21, 2008 - 22:36 ET by balboa"NAMBLA types." Well, that answers a lot for me.
Can you doubt it...
May 21, 2008 - 23:49 ET by Warner Todd HustonCan you DOUBT that this is a NAMBLA styled exercise in co-opting schools for homosexual trolling grounds?
Why else would this radical group try to get teenagers into their gay sex club??
That is just stupid. Do
May 22, 2008 - 01:10 ET by cleverpigThat is just stupid.
Do you ever consider that people on the opposite side of a debate from you might not be insidious evil monsters bent on destroying your religion and seducing children?
I'm sorry NAMBLA hides under your bed and scares you at night, but the fact is that the boogeyman is not actually hiding behind every door or in every shadow.
You are like the personification of the strawman! Every gay person turns into NAMBLA, every liberal club becomes the KKK, every liberal becomes a socialist, every socialist becomes a communist, every communist becomes a Stalinist. Every anti-discrimination student club becomes a beat poet sex farm!
No wonder you think you are always right! Come back to the real world-- it's a much less menacing place where most people, even you, are honestly trying to do the right thing. :)
Boy I wish they'd have had a nymphomania club for me in HS
May 22, 2008 - 09:13 ET by Dee BunkThen maybe people could have understood that I wasn't just a slut who slept with everyone for no good reason. Then older perverted men and football players could have sought me out and everyone would have been satisfied. I'm sure there were some teachers who could have used a quickie during their free period. We'd all be just getting what we wanted not harming anyone else.
You do know that nymphomania is an actual problem don't you cleverpig? Sex clubs are not appropriate in High School. College is fine.
It's nice that you like to discount everything WTH says with the idiotic theory that because not everyone has nefarious intent means that no one can. That is naive and ridiculous and stupid (to use your exact word).
Just look at abortion, even most who agreed with it being legalized never dreamed (and many still don't know) that abortion would become common place and acceptable under any circumstances. They never dreamed that loving parents would not be able to council their children or that babies could be born alive and then murdered.
There is a NAMBALA like comparison to abortion zealots. Abortion zealots who like abortion as population control and Eugenics are the one's who have brought abortion to the state it is in. They do it on the backs of ignorant people who hold on to their political ideology and refuse to see valid arguments for anything their party doesn't support.
It is NOT a sex club! You
May 22, 2008 - 09:59 ET by cleverpigIt is NOT a sex club!
You are right, there are bad people out there. So let's all suffer to make sure we've created a world in which no one can ever hurt anyone else. Outlaw forks, first of all, because some mean person could use one to stab me in the eye. Information is right out, we can't have any of that. It can all be used to hurt someone. Lock your kids in the closet right now, and I'm not speaking metaphorically. We'll let them out when they're too old to interest NAMBLA. Since they're not going to school, we won't have to worry about outlawing the drama club, where flamboyant kids gather to share in a common interest and potentially attract predatory adults.
So you are ok with the Nympho Club too Clever pig?
May 22, 2008 - 10:04 ET by Dee BunkAll you liberals are. Not one has spoke out against it. It's clear where you come from on this. Sex Clubs are okay as long as actual sex doesn't take place in the club. At least we know where you stand. It's pointless to argue with you.
I don't want a Nympho club or a Gay club. The only type of sex-related club I want is an abstinence club. It's the only sex related club that should be supported by the school.
Why abstinence only? Isn't
May 22, 2008 - 10:08 ET by balboaWhy abstinence only? Isn't that opening the door to all kinds of makeout sessions? How can you be for a Heavy-Petting Club?
No one is for a nympho club. We simply don't believe that a Gay Club= Gay Sex Club.
Do you even know what
May 22, 2008 - 10:11 ET by taterDo you even know what abstinence means? That wouldn't open doors to those other clubs...because abstinence (or better a Chastity Club) teaches you that making out and heavy petting are a slippery slope to sex.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
Oh, so they're completely
May 22, 2008 - 10:58 ET by balboaOh, so they're completely unrealistic.
Why not balboa? Don't you know that nymphomania is a phisical
May 22, 2008 - 10:21 ET by Dee Bunkproblem? It's not something someone chooses to be. They just are. Again - you guys just talk about what you "believe" rather than any rational logical arguments.
Abstinence and heavy petting have no relationship to each other. As already stated you have no clue about what an abstinence club is.
What we "believe" is based
May 22, 2008 - 11:01 ET by balboaWhat we "believe" is based on rational arguments.
Nymphomania and being gay are not the same thing. At all.
These are not...sex clubs. Not.
Yes they ARE the same
May 22, 2008 - 11:05 ET by mofosesameIt's all about SEX and how it makes you feel.
»→ right bal
May 22, 2008 - 11:08 ET by Cool ArrowSo tell us what is so rational about rectal sex?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
COOL
May 22, 2008 - 11:11 ET by mofosesameGreat question!!!
Rectal sex is not part of
May 22, 2008 - 11:20 ET by balboaRectal sex is not part of my argument.
*turns pallid and scoots away*
May 22, 2008 - 11:22 ET by candanceThis is the part where I let ya'll carry on with the discussion. I don't have the stomach to debate such things.
»→ It's not?
May 22, 2008 - 11:27 ET by Cool ArrowSo you you don't think it's "rational"?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Why can't you explain how nymphomania is different?
May 22, 2008 - 11:29 ET by Dee BunkIf it weren't a valid comparison to the topic you should be able to tell me why without just saying the "are not the same thing". You can't and that proves my point. Of course they are not exactly the same thing, but how are they different when it comes to forming a club and whether the club should be allowed or not?
I expect to hear crickets and nothing from any of the resident libs.
Nymphomania is a
May 22, 2008 - 11:38 ET by balboaNymphomania is a psychological disorder. Homosexuality is not. Nymphomania is all about sex. Homosexuality is about sex, but not exclusively. It's about relationships, dating, etc.
»→ say what bal?
May 22, 2008 - 11:44 ET by Cool ArrowIt's about relationships, dating, etc.
What kind of relationships?
Dating that leads to what kind of sexual attraction and action? Platonic?
Yeah, right.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Wrong balboa you Nymphophobe. Nymphomania
May 22, 2008 - 11:52 ET by Dee Bunkis not just psychological. People joke about Nymphomania because it hasn't become politically incorrect yet, but it's a physical problem. You saying that it can be controlled by a psychologist is the same as saying that gay or heterosexual impulses can be controlled by a psychologist. Whether or not the person actually has sex everytime they have the impulse may be somewhat controlled by psychologists, but it's the same for gay sex and non nymphomaniac sex.
Many people are called nymphomaniacs just because they like to have a lot of sex, the same way people are called gay whether they have gay sex or not. Nymphomaniacs want to date and have relationships too.
Do you want to try some more?
»→ Exactly Dee
May 22, 2008 - 11:57 ET by Cool ArrowWhen I was younger, there was no such thing as a nymphomaniac simply because I based my opinion strictly on my own appetite.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Nymphomania is an
May 22, 2008 - 12:42 ET by balboaNymphomania is an insatiable, irrational desire to constantly have sex that impedes on normal everyday life. Neither homo- nor heterosexuality are on that level.
"Do you want to try some more?"
Bal, you're maintaining
May 22, 2008 - 13:11 ET by tracheostomyBal, you're maintaining that all nymphos are "irrational" when Dee clearly isn't. Go back to her previous post.
Try something else.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Wow...
May 22, 2008 - 13:21 ET by sarcasmoFor some reason, now I really want to meet Dee in person! ;)
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
Then she isn't a true
May 22, 2008 - 13:21 ET by balboaThen she isn't a true nymphomaniac.
Wrong again balboa - here are the causes from the Mayo Clinic
May 22, 2008 - 13:38 ET by Dee Bunkcompulsive sexual disorder
Sounds a lot like what they said about homosexuals not to long ago and what some are still saying. The only difference is that one is deemed socially acceptable by liberals and the other isn't. Actually they do accept that too as long as it's not their own girlfriend or wife that they are in love with.
People with compulsive sexual disorder experiment with all different kinds of sex including homosexual sex. People have all kinds of problems when it comes to sex and sexual identity and they don't need adult sanctioned experimentation just because they are confused. A gay person has plenty of time to be gay if that is what they really are, as an adult, and shouldn't be labeled by themselves or anyone else at such a young age. I know people who were Gay in high school and in their early 20's who "went straight" so to speak when they grew up. Teenagers gravitate towards what ever group will be most excepting of them. It's not right for adults to sanction sexual preferences and practices in High school.
Try again.
Homosexuality is not
May 22, 2008 - 13:55 ET by balboaHomosexuality is not irrational behavior that intrudes on your everyday life. It is not compulsive or obsessive.
It's in the eye of the beholder balboa
May 22, 2008 - 14:26 ET by Dee BunkMany people who just like sex are labeled nymphomanias, just as many nymphos are labeled bi-sexual or Gay because they experiment more. As I said before, the only difference between a Homosexual and a Heterosexual is who they want to have sex with. If it's not about sex then there is no need for a Homosexual club because there are no differences then. They are the same as everyone else in every other regard. The people in the Gay club, are more likely to be experimenting with sex, if not, they could fit right in very well in the "abstinence club".
Look, I'm not saying that
May 22, 2008 - 14:42 ET by balboaLook, I'm not saying that such a club is a GREAT IDEA or isn't without problems. I think that it's something that would require a good deal of monitoring and guidance from teachers / advisors as there are a number of pitfalls for something like this.
A lot depends on the goals of such a club, which obviously would have to be spelled out in some kind of charter.
»→ Dee, I confess
May 22, 2008 - 11:39 ET by Cool ArrowI confess to being a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
CP: It is NOT a sex
May 22, 2008 - 10:13 ET by tracheostomyCP: It is NOT a sex club!
Well then, you got issues to hash out with Jason here, because he's arguing your side as if the entire public HS system were one giant sex club.
CP: Since they're not going to school, we won't have to worry about
outlawing the drama club, where flamboyant kids gather to share in a
common interest and potentially attract predatory adults.
Wasn't that the truth. . .I'm convinced half the ticket sales were from family members, friends, faculty, etc. and the other half was from ephebophiles.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Can you DOUBT that this is
May 22, 2008 - 08:43 ET by JasonCCan you DOUBT that this is a NAMBLA styled exercise in co-opting schools for homosexual trolling grounds?
WTH, you have really gone off the deep end with this one. How are you and the posters on this board finding a correlation between pedophiles and a club for kids to discuss their sexual identity without being judged and ridiculed. Calling it a "Sex club" might be the most disingenuous and lazy attempt at smearing something you don't like that I've seen on any of your stories. Tell me you actually think that gay/straight alliances are fronts for gay orgies. If I can get this in writing, it will be the source of so many laughs...
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
You are the lazy one Jason
May 22, 2008 - 09:19 ET by Dee BunkYou refuse to look at any negative consequences just because your party supports this type of thing and some ignoramus may call you a homophobe if you do. You are the weak and lazy one. Not WTH.
Sex clubs are not appropriate in high schools. WTH isn't saying that they are fronts for gay orgies, he's saying that they can be infiltrated and exploited by NAMBALA types. If you can't see that then you are extremely naive.
Yet, these NAMBLA types
May 22, 2008 - 09:34 ET by balboaYet, these NAMBLA types apparently ARE allowed to!
What do you think that sentence means?
balboa - it means NAMBLA types can't be distinguished
May 22, 2008 - 09:42 ET by Dee Bunkfrom non NAMBLA types. They can easily infiltrate or even start the clubs at different schools if they want to and no one would know.
Sex clubs are not appropriate in high school
I don't think it does. Read
May 22, 2008 - 09:44 ET by balboaI don't think it does. Read WTH's post.
And these aren't sex clubs.
I did read his post balboa - So my nympho club would be fine
May 22, 2008 - 09:53 ET by Dee Bunkwith you? How can you say they are not sex clubs? Technically my nympho club wouldn't be a sex club either.
In my highschool imagination
May 22, 2008 - 09:56 ET by sarcasmoEven "study hall" was a nympho club. Sadly, it was only in my imagination, but I'd have welcomed the real thing...
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
me too sarc
May 22, 2008 - 10:01 ET by shawn228I was not a nympo in high school, but I would have loved to have done some undercover work if there was club with female members :-)
Sarcasmo and Shawn prove my point.
May 22, 2008 - 10:13 ET by Dee BunkI know lots of people who would have liked that club. What guy who wants to have sex wouldn't?
That's one aspect of it...
May 22, 2008 - 11:08 ET by sarcasmoThe other one, if I know the highschool me, is that the only time I'd be thinking even more about sex than in study hall would be in some "chastity club." :) I don't have kids, so I can't be sure, but sometimes it seems like they erase memory in their parents, especially when it comes to unintended consequences.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
As I wrote last night, the
May 22, 2008 - 10:02 ET by balboaAs I wrote last night, the direction, intention, and execution of this club's agenda would have to be monitored, for sure.
Sex club implies that the group gets together to have gay sex. I don't think that's in any way what these kids are talking about.
the direction,
May 22, 2008 - 10:13 ET by general companythe direction, intention, and execution of this club's agenda would have to be monitored, for sure.
No monitoring necessary, I would not trust any of these folks that are complacent with this, with MY kid. If this is "just" a program to help kids that are feeling that they don't fit in, then the scope should include everyone and not just gays. This would be appropriate, but just gays..no. The club should not be allowed, mostly because the parents are most definitely against it and they are FUNDING it.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
liberals are okay with sex clubs in HS as long as the sex
May 22, 2008 - 10:24 ET by Dee Bunkdoesn't take place in the club. I think we understand.
Never said that. Try to
May 22, 2008 - 11:23 ET by balboaNever said that. Try to follow.
How exactly does a NAMBLA
May 22, 2008 - 10:03 ET by cleverpigHow exactly does a NAMBLA type, or any adult gay or straight, infiltrate a high school club? Pretend to enroll in high school? Unless they all look like the actors from 21 Jump St. I think they'd be out of luck!
I think WTH is saying the
May 22, 2008 - 10:05 ET by balboaI think WTH is saying the people in the club are the NAMBLA types.
It's not rocket science cleverpig - they only need to stalk
May 22, 2008 - 10:30 ET by Dee Bunkthe meetings, they don't need to be there. If it's a school sanctioned club they can most likely find out about meetings and activities on the school web site. If not, it would be harder, only pedophiles who are teachers or have children in the high school would be able to find out. We all know their are no pedophiles who are teachers or have children right? No worries?
J: WTH, you have really
May 22, 2008 - 09:27 ET by tracheostomyJ: WTH, you have really gone off the deep end with this one. How are you
and the posters on this board finding a correlation between pedophiles
and a club for kids to discuss their sexual identity without being
judged and ridiculed.
Every club has a sign-in sheet. Every club has a member roster. Every club has an adult advisor/liason with a personal interest in the subject matter. They're just putting two and two together man. I can't believe you actually needed someone to draw you a frickin' map Jason.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Wow, these 'arguments' are
May 22, 2008 - 09:34 ET by JasonCWow, these 'arguments' are bordering on pathetic. We're talking about a group of kids getting together to discuss their common status as part of a historically-marginalized group. Your conspiracy theories about NAMBLA and the fact that they could potentially be infiltrated by people who could exploit them are absurd. You're creating potential problems out of nothing. I know you guys think gay people are all degenerates and perverts, but if I was the parent of a gay kid who wanted to be in a club like this, I'd be more worried about violent homophobes than about the gay/pedophile boogeymen that you're so convinced are lurking around suburban high schools, just waiting for gay/straight alliances to be formed.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
J: Your conspiracy
May 22, 2008 - 09:43 ET by tracheostomyJ: Your conspiracy theories about NAMBLA and the fact that they could potentially be infiltrated by people who could exploit them are absurd.
I find the classic conspiracy theories about the religious right equally absurd. I never mentioned NAMBLA. You don't have to be an organized entity with a membership to prey on naive teens.
List of names ---> equals culling the herd. ---> equals easier targets.
You got way too much trust in these hypothetical teachers you throw around, what with the recent scandals and all. Holy crap Jason, your naivete is astounding.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
"We're talking about a
May 22, 2008 - 09:44 ET by mofosesame"We're talking about a group of kids getting together to discuss their common status as part of a historically-marginalized group."
That's fine. We're all for it! But, keep it out of the high schools.
Our educational system has nothing to do with someone's preference to have sex with the opposite sex.
What does our educational
May 22, 2008 - 09:50 ET by balboaWhat does our educational system have to do with any of the extracurricular clubs that are out there?
balboa - It's only the school supported extracurricular clubs
May 22, 2008 - 09:58 ET by Dee Bunkthat we are complaining about. You guys are so blinded that it doesn't matter how often or how many of us say it, you don't get it.
If they want to form their clubs outside of school and their parents are fine with it - no one cares.
And, if I could take it further
May 22, 2008 - 10:01 ET by sarcasmoChances are conservatives wouldn't care nearly as much -- if at all -- were this being done at a private school they could boycott. Instead, it's a public school, where a "boycott" is called a tax protest and lands the boycotter's ass in the slammer. IOW, as I keep saying, the problem is socialist schooling again.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
I understand you're saying
May 22, 2008 - 10:04 ET by balboaI understand you're saying that. The previous poster asked what a club like this has to do with our educational system. I'm saying just as much as some of the other clubs out there.
The whole point of the club
May 22, 2008 - 10:10 ET by cleverpigThe whole point of the club is to let them feel accepted by their peers in high school. Telling them they can do whatever they want as long as you don't have to see it is exactly the attitude these clubs are trying to fight against! The day of silence many of the alliances observe represents the silence gay students are expected to live in while everyone around them is free to talk about sexuality all they like.
I did musical theater in Colorado for a year, and for someone who grew up in the Bay Area and went to a very liberal school it was an eye opening experience. There were 5 or 6 gay high school students in the cast, and their stories were horrifying. Being thrown out of the house by your parents and living on the street, having a nose broken by your boyfriend's father, getting dragged out of your school by goons your parents hired to kidnap you and take you to a straightening out camp.
And when they try to find other students who are going through this hell, or to talk to straight peers and try to bridge the gap, you actually have the gall to tell them to keep quiet about it all? I'm sorry, but I think that's disgusting.
Since when does a
May 22, 2008 - 10:21 ET by AJSince when does a conservative think they're "free to talk about sexuality all they like"? In other words, most conservatives (or anyone) with a morality about them will keep their sexual perogatives/fantasies/orientations to themselves and their spouse. What annoys the hell out of most people is the fact that homosexuals keep claiming they are "victimized" by other people. Well, maybe if homosexuals would just keep it to themselves, like straight people do, they would get "victimizing" fallout. If you're gonna "come out of the closet" and go public with it, you're going to get quashed by some people (reference: actors, politicians).
Hmm-- that's the stapling factor: victimization. Loud-mouth homosexuals are the paramount example of liberals who convince themselves that they've been "victimized" by someone. This results in the formation of magical groups that stand against those "evils".
I, for one, don't march around naked on my university campus and shout, "Look! A straight, naked guy expressing his sexuality!"
Although, there was this one time after an all-night party... :) [/sarcasm]
Teenagers, not
May 22, 2008 - 14:05 ET by cleverpigTeenagers, not conservatives, talk about sex all they like.
You have a uniquely adult perspective here, where if you just keep to yourself you will be left alone. Unfortunately, high school doesn't work like that.
CP: The whole point of the
May 22, 2008 - 10:23 ET by tracheostomyCP: The whole point of the club is to let them feel accepted by their peers in high school.
Feel accepted about. . .their sexual intentions? I agree with your assessment of the point of the club. That is, unless you'd care to rephrase. . .
CP: Telling them they can do whatever they want as long as you don't have
to see it is exactly the attitude these clubs are trying to fight
against!
Oh. So they are trying to bring it all out in the open! Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot like that.
CP: The day of silence many of the alliances observe represents
the silence gay students are expected to live in while everyone around
them is free to talk about sexuality all they like.
But that's the assumption on your part rearing its ugly head again. You think exactly like Jason. So then Dee's nympho club comes into play. I liked your dinner-fork comparison also. So how about a gun club CP? Fair is fair, right?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I'm not shooting myself in
May 22, 2008 - 14:15 ET by cleverpigI'm not shooting myself in the foot, bringing things out into the open is the whole point.
I don't have a problem with a gun club, provided strict safety rules are observed and all firearms are owned and operated legally. I don't have a problem with a support group for nymphomaniacs provided that they aren't allowed to have sex with each other. I have no problems with chess clubs as long as they aren't allowed to have sex with each other, or band camps...
Do you see what I'm getting at? You think I am naive for thinking that a club based on orientation won't result in underage sex. I think you are naive if you think that every other darn club isn't resulting in underage sex! If you haven't taught your kids about the responsibilities and dangers that accompany sex, it isn't going to matter if they are getting together to talk about saving the environment or stopping discrimination against gays, they'll behave irresponsibly.
The only possible exception to that is the abstinence club, and more power to 'em!
Not really wanting to jump
May 22, 2008 - 14:22 ET by Ruths husband BenNot really wanting to jump in here, but I have to point out that nobody joins a High School chess club looking for sex (is that a rook in your pocket, or are you just glad to checkmate me?).
"Whatever Michelle Says Is The Message." –
Senator Barack Obama October 1, 2007, Chicago HQ
Extracurricular clubs give
May 22, 2008 - 10:07 ET by mofosesameExtracurricular clubs give kids something to do that doesn't involve sex, drugs or video games.
screw you Jason - I don't think gay people are degenerates and
May 22, 2008 - 09:46 ET by Dee Bunkperverts. As I've told you before, I stuck up for Gay people in high school when it wasn't cool to do so. You are jumping on a bandwagon and not using critical thought. You are too blinded by your prejudices.
Sex Clubs are not appropriate in High School
Sex with children....
May 21, 2008 - 22:39 ET by shawn228Does not represent gays. Not only are you comparing the KKK and Nazis to gays, now it is pediphiles. Come on Warner, that is kind of a stretch isn't it?
a funny little fact about
May 22, 2008 - 04:07 ET by mister josepha funny little fact about pedophilia that is oft overlooked--the typical pedophile does not alternate between 'male' and 'female;' they almost always molest one gender or the other. thus, if a pedophile molests boys, the pedophile is homosexual. if a pedophile molests girls, the pedophile is heterosexual.
So full of it
May 22, 2008 - 08:14 ET by general companySex with children....... Does not represent gays
It doesnt? It sure seems to represent these gays, last time I looked High School was full of kids. And no, it is not a stretch to assume some are pediphies when you consider the ages of HS students.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I don't think kids having
May 22, 2008 - 08:35 ET by cleverpigI don't think kids having sex with kids counts as pedophilia.
This is a high school student group, started by high school students and attended by high school students. They probably attend outside events, like pride parades, but outsiders are not coming to their school to attend their events.
So I'm not sure who "these gays" are supposed to be.
BS, they may not be coming
May 22, 2008 - 08:55 ET by general companyBS, they may not be coming in, but promoting it all the same. The attitude of the artical promotes it, even though I would bet anything that 90% of the parents including the gay ones are against it. Wonder who thier guest speakers will be.
BTW 18-19 yr olds have sex with 15-16yr olds could be consided pedophiles
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
BTW 18-19 yr olds have sex
May 22, 2008 - 10:12 ET by cleverpigBTW 18-19 yr olds have sex with 15-16yr olds could be consided pedophiles
...regardless of whether they are gay or straight. If that's your problem, split high school and make sure kids never interact with adults.
...regardless of whether
May 22, 2008 - 10:20 ET by general company...regardless of whether they are gay or straight. If that's your problem, split high school and make sure kids never interact with adults.
Hey, I got a better idea, how about we dont promote sex of any kind in school, and teach self-respect and responsibility instead. I wonder what would happen then?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
GC: Hey, I got a better
May 22, 2008 - 10:36 ET by tracheostomyGC: Hey, I got a better idea, how about we dont promote sex of any kind in
school, and teach self-respect and responsibility instead. I wonder
what would happen then?
Because ever since high school, Jason and CP were convinced everyone was doing it already.
I'm tired of arguing against such a moronic argumentum-ad-populum. They're all yours.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Shawn,
May 21, 2008 - 23:23 ET by jefflebowskiI was responding to an earlier post where it was said that gays don't promote hate. When they go into churches and make out, just what are they spreading?
jeff
May 21, 2008 - 23:35 ET by shawn228I am agreeing with you, to do that inside or in front of a church is totally disrespectful to Christians.
I just don't believe it is right for the Principal to infringe on their rights to form a club.
"I just don't believe it is
May 22, 2008 - 09:52 ET by mofosesame"I just don't believe it is right for the Principal to infringe on their rights to form a club."
Great point, Shawn.
By the way, he didn't. Forming the club isn't the problem, it's that the the club was sponsored by the school.
That's the 5th time I've said it. Dee Bunk and others have also said it. Is it sinking in yet?
mo
May 22, 2008 - 10:05 ET by shawn228I feel it is discrimination not to allow one for Gays and to allow one for say abstinence only club.
Answer my question...
May 22, 2008 - 10:09 ET by mofosesameYou're okay with a beastiality club?
sure mo
May 22, 2008 - 10:15 ET by shawn228No I am not. beastiality affects animals and exploits them. It is also against the law. The KKK and other hate groups make people uncomfortable because they advocate killing of certain races.
Having a gay club does not have to affect anyone else....human or animal.
Gottta go to work, catch ya later.
SO what's the point of the
May 22, 2008 - 10:29 ET by mofosesameNOT IN FLORIDA
SO what's the point of the school sponsorship?
And, why do you keep mentioning the KKK? You make absoltely no sense.
Once again: 1. If the
May 22, 2008 - 10:30 ET by AJOnce again:
1. If the club were formed OUTSIDE of the school, it'd be fine. Dozens of students form clubs with what ever ulterior motive they want all the time-- I was in a club of video gamers but it was by no means sponsored by the school nor did we ever seek to use the school for any reason.
2. If state laws and/or the parent-teacher organization demands the teaching of sexual education and the promoting abstinence, then this club would be an out-right violation of that. Think of it this way. What if I were a student at a rather large high school and got a bunch of other students together to form a club for straight orientation (where we'd discuss straight sexual issues). That would immediately raise red flags. Why? What if we got caught one night drinking in the woods and having sex with each other? Well, we just caught by the police and the school is going to have some explaining to do. The same idea should apply to any club about any sexual orientation. Schools laws are there to deal with the "what ifs" regarding minors.
Unfortunately, in our politically correct obsessed world, if a group of homosexuals wanted to form a group, and the school justified not allowing it to form-- mother of God-- the media would descend on that school district and desecrate it for not allowing students to "express" themselves. And not just the media-- all the other magical gay clubs around America would too.
I just don't believe it
May 22, 2008 - 11:28 ET by general companyI just don't believe it is right for the Principal to infringe on their rights to form a club.
OK, then who's reponsiblity should it be? How about letting the parents have a say? HS is not there to be "fair", it is there to teach the basic's and if it is any good at all it will also teach the kids respect for others and compassion. This "fair" BS is nonesense. If my kids ever used the "fair" argument with me, I would remind them all of what it takes to raise them, then go on vacation till they were begging me to come home. We are NOT "fair" because we were kids too and we know better then to give them free rein. We are not "fair" because we love them, and dont want them hurt, and we KNOW others do NOT have the same regaurd for them.
We have had our children picked on in school, its not very fun for the kid or the parents, but it happeneds. We taught our child how to be less of a target, and how to confront those who took joy in his misery. He is in HS now has tons of friends, (even some that used to pick on him) and is a VERY plesent kid. No club needed, just some patient parenting.
How well do you think the other kids would had received him had we made a fuss and got them all in trouble and made a big stink at the school?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
It's great that you were a
May 22, 2008 - 14:19 ET by cleverpigIt's great that you were a patient parent with your kid who was having trouble at school. What do you think would have happened to your child if you were one of the people telling him how disgusting you found his behavior, and he had no peer group to turn to at school.
Not such a rosy outlook.
Please keep in mind that many gay teens do not receive support at home specifically because they are gay.
What do you think would
May 22, 2008 - 19:54 ET by general companyWhat do you think would have happened to your child if you were one of the people telling him how disgusting you found his behavior, and he had no peer group to turn to at school.
I am a REAL parent. The parents of these kids you described are not, so this is not even a consideration for me. Also has it occured to you that maybe this (lousy parents) is also the root of the cause of these children turning gay. No I am sure it hasnt.
Point is, there are many other outlets for kids to get help, due to several problems including being gay or having abusive parents. The "club" will do nothing to resolve these problems unless the scope of it is one of inclusivness instead of the segragation this club represents by targeting gays. But you and I both know this has nothing to do with kids helping eachother with their personal problems except the fact that they want to get laid. Anyone buying a yarn other then that, has never spent any time with teenagers.
BTW it did not go unnoticed that you ignored my questions and ran for the heart strings
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Just wondering, are there
May 21, 2008 - 23:05 ET by ckc1227Just wondering, are there any heterosexual clubs, and if so, why? Why should there be any clubs based on sexual orientation or sexual preferences? I mean, what's next, a ménage à trois club for high school kids who prefer multiple partners? Afterall, for the most part, it's not against the law for high school students to have threesomes. Hey, maybe they can spin it and say it's not really about sex, it's just about who(and how many) they want to be with.
And just so I'm clear, I don't care about the "gay" aspect of it. There shouldn't be any clubs based on sexuality period, gay, straight, or whatever.
"I do not see." At least
May 22, 2008 - 11:51 ET by mattm"I do not see." At least you admit it. Seriously though, the word is homosexual, how can you not see that - unless you don't want to see it?
Sodomy is illegal when you're under 18, too.
Gays and their enablers are indeed promoting hatred of anyone who refuse to accept their viewpoint, as the implication of bigotry on the principal's part proves.
"Gays just want to be together..." If that were simply the case, why do they need a gay club at school? They can 'be together' on their time in their own place.
I must respectfully
May 21, 2008 - 22:37 ET by Cureboy675I must respectfully disagree. But the premise that this is a club based on a "sexual activity" seems a little much. You make it sound like they're going to be holding a series of orgies down the hall from the Chess Club. I think its just a bunch of kids who want to get together and share something they have in common.
That being said. I don't like the idea of this newspaper calling the principal out like this and making him sound like some gay-basher. Nobody should fault the principal for sticking to his beliefs. Its not like he tried to intimidate the kids wanting to establish his club. It was just something the principal didn't think was right and he resigned. He's not a monster for doing that.
I'm pretty sure I read
May 21, 2008 - 22:44 ET by bigtimerI'm pretty sure I read where the principal said the school curriculum was based on abstinence....
What part of that do people not understand I wonder?
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I guess I'm lost. How
May 22, 2008 - 10:35 ET by AJI guess I'm lost. How would a sexual orientation club NOT imply sexual activity? Do they talk about engineering problems and cars? Uh, if that were so, why not call the club "The Engineering Club" where we talk about everything engineering and nothing sexual.
I guess I'm just lost about your disagreement... respectfully.
It's perfect examples like
May 21, 2008 - 22:39 ET by bigtimerIt's perfect examples like this that give more and more people reason to home school.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Did any of you actually
May 22, 2008 - 00:17 ET by cleverpigDid any of you actually read the name of the club? It's not the Gay Kids Club, it's the Gay/Straight Alliance. There are at least a thousand of these clubs in high schools across the country, and they do not promote sexual activity!
The purpose of these clubs is to address discrimination and harrassment that gay students face in high school and to bring them back into the mainstream, let them feel like normal students like everyone else. I grew up in possibly the most liberal, gay-friendly place you can in this country and kids were still horribly cruel, not just to students who were actually gay, but to anyone who didn't fit in in a certain way and got tagged with that label.
I know every single one of you reading this who attended a public school in this country knows exactly what I'm talking about, and to pretend otherwise would be pathetic. Putting an end to that is the purpose of Gay/Straight Alliance clubs.
A club based on orientation, particularly one focused on bringing together people with different orientations, does not have to be about sex. I mean, when you come right down to it, a club that is 70% gay students and 30% straight students is probably less likely to result in underage sex than the chess or cheerleading or yearbook clubs where 95% of the students share the same orientation!
I'm glad the principle resigned, and good riddance! I wasn't even going to comment on this post but Warner's responses here are horrific! It boggles my mind that you would think high school students, who let's be honest, are just trying to figure out how to get through life, are forming these clubs in order to kill your religion. That's a level of delusional paranoia I honestly have no idea how to answer :P
Again, there should be NO
May 22, 2008 - 00:24 ET by Warner Todd HustonAgain, there should be NO CLUBS IN SCHOOLS based on SEXUAL IDENTITY OR ACTIVITY.
How hard is that for you extremists to get?
Apparently your goal is to sexualize kids as early as possible. Yep, just like NAMBLA.
So basically you think it
May 22, 2008 - 01:02 ET by cleverpigSo basically you think it is healthier for kids to feel castigated and demeaned for their orientation than it is for them to feel accepted, because talking about sex at all is BAD NEWS. So in order to make sure that kids don't talk about sex, ever, you will let a minority suffer harrassment and discrimination while the rest of the teenagers enjoy early sexualization through the multitude of pro-heterosexual messages that they receive every day from just about every media output they encounter.
Brilliant.
There's another option-- we give teens the opportunity to act like responsible adults by talking to them like responsible adults. We lay clear groundrules for conduct but open up discussion so that when they feel alienated and confused they will have some idea how to talk to someone and ask for help.
So in order to make sure
May 22, 2008 - 04:17 ET by mister josephSo in order to make sure that kids don't talk about sex, ever, you will let a minority suffer harrassment and discrimination while the rest of the teenagers enjoy early sexualization through the multitude of pro-heterosexual messages that they receive every day from just about every media output they encounter.
Sexuality is a private matter. If you talk about it and force it on others, then damn straight, you're going to run into those who will harass, discriminate, or react in a way that you don't like, it's your fault, because you chose to bring it up. It's true for straight people; why can't it be true for gay people? It's a double standard. If I were at my job and were to start going on about it like, "Oh, I'm straight, and my political views demand to be heard, and your opinions" you can damn sure bet someone could easily file a sexual harassment claim, and you can damn sure bet the company would take action. I couldn't hide behind "discrimination;" gays can.
There's another option-- we give teens the opportunity to act like responsible adults by talking to them like responsible adults. We lay clear groundrules for conduct but open up discussion so that when they feel alienated and confused they will have some idea how to talk to someone and ask for help.
I agree with this comment, to a point. Being gay is based only on sexuality. To dedicate a club exclusively to that end is basing a club on sexuality. But it must be remembered: they're still children. And if they have a problem, they can talk to a counselor. They don't need a club.
So you really think that
May 22, 2008 - 08:39 ET by cleverpigSo you really think that high schoolers only get called names and harrassed if they stand on a desk and announce their sexuality? Keep to yourself and keep quiet and no one will ever call you a f_ _?
You've got to be kidding! Did you go to high school?
CP: So you really think
May 22, 2008 - 08:59 ET by tracheostomyCP: So you really think that high schoolers only get called names and
harrassed if they stand on a desk and announce their sexuality? Keep to
yourself and keep quiet and no one will ever call you a f_ _?
You've got to be kidding! Did you go to high school?
Everyone in HS thought I was a f_ _ because I really liked hanging with the ambiguous kids. My letter activities were drama and I was in the art department. We had 3-4 very open future f_ _s of America, and started one of the first pro-gay clubs in Washington state. I think it was called "rainbow" or something. Later on, it was converted to a G/S alliance. But I digress.
So your presumption of harassment only towards actual gays is unfounded. It's all based on the harasser's perception. Think harder, CP.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
That's the whole point!
May 22, 2008 - 10:16 ET by cleverpigThat's the whole point! Christ, the club website even specifically talks about the problem of how people are treated when they are labelled homosexual regardless of whether or not they are, as I mentioned in my first post. It is not a club only for gay people who think only gay people have problems. It is a club to bring together gay and straight students and combat stereotypes and harrassment.
Given your familiarity with that ostracization, I can't understand why you don't think that's a good idea!
CP,
May 22, 2008 - 10:40 ET by tracheostomyCP: That's the whole point! Christ, the club website even specifically
talks about the problem of how people are treated when they are
labelled homosexual regardless of whether or not they are, as I mentioned in my first post.
No, that's counseling about bullying. It doesn't have to be specifically tailored to a student's possible sexual intent.
CP: Given your familiarity with that ostracization, I can't understand why you don't think that's a good idea!
Because of the exclusivist label attached to it. Durh!
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
cleverpig, I have a
May 22, 2008 - 10:43 ET by AJcleverpig, I have a question for you. Maybe you cannot answer it and that's fine because I cannot give a good answer to it either.
If the club were having so much trouble forming in the school, what would stop them from just from a general club in their neighborhood-- one that has nothing to do with the school? I guess I don't understand why this group is so adamant about forming a school-endorsed club. If there is this much opposition in the school, then just walk away and start it some where else.
Is it possible that this club has an ulterior motive? Are they trying to prove something. Well, I'm not one for generalizing about this but a club that is this determined to get their group started in and only in the school seems a bit suspicious to me.
Warner doesn't think that
May 22, 2008 - 04:17 ET by blogonatorWarner doesn't think that teens have a right for free speech. So don't bother. And btw, What the article he is going up against supposedly does, painting someone as a homophobic, Warner has done that for his own person in his own article! I'd say: respect man!
Cleverpig. . .
May 22, 2008 - 08:42 ET by tracheostomyCP: So basically you think it is healthier for kids to feel castigated and
demeaned for their orientation than it is for them to feel accepted,
because talking about sex at all is BAD NEWS.
Look at the sentence you led with! The premise is that the orientation comes first, and then you provide a "safe haven" for them to explore that environment. How about avoiding a setting that steers them one way or the other? Hm?
*GASP* No-no, we can't do that! Why? Because your side always says, "they'll just explore it anyway."
All of them? All at once? What about the feelings of the household that raises these kids? All of a sudden they're in the institution that makes private decisions for them? Who's going to take control of the situation in any case?
Because IMO, the principal should have stood his ground. He abdicated and left a hole for someone with less of a spine to fill.
High Schools and the activities department really shouldn't be promoting sexual activity among minors. The old "they're gonna do it anyway" excuse is the tired-out language of apathy, compromise, and failed leadership.
CP: So in order to make sure
that kids don't talk about sex, ever, you will let a minority suffer
harrassment and discrimination while the rest of the teenagers enjoy
early sexualization through the multitude of pro-heterosexual messages
that they receive every day from just about every media output they
encounter.
Now that's a strawman! As if those arguing against sexualization of gay teens hypocritically embrace the sexualization of straight teens at the same time.
CP: There's another option-- we give teens the opportunity to act like
responsible adults by talking to them like responsible adults.
You mean pretense, right?
CP: We lay
clear groundrules for conduct but open up discussion so that when they
feel alienated and confused they will have some idea how to talk to
someone and ask for help.
Ask for help about what? Before or after they engage in the specific act? *knock-knock* Hello?!?? Have you ever considered an "abstinance-before-gay-marriage" alternative? No.
Why? Because you can't come up with anything original. You don't even think seriously about the options you're trying to promote.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I don't think you can avoid
May 22, 2008 - 10:21 ET by cleverpigI don't think you can avoid raising children in a setting that promotes heterosexuality, because it is the assumption on every level of our culture.
You don't think anyone ever worries about their orientation before they've actually become sexually active?
CP: I don't think you can
May 22, 2008 - 10:31 ET by tracheostomyCP: I don't think you can avoid raising children in a setting that promotes
heterosexuality, because it is the assumption on every level of our
culture.
Breeder envy.
Homosexuality depends on a lot of crutches to get the act done. Heck, they can't even procreate. If there's even the remote possibility of creating a pseudo-family of their own, they depend on third parties and build it up based on aping a patriarcical model. It's really pathetic.
CP: You don't think anyone ever worries about their orientation before they've actually become sexually active?
Promoting the orientation one way or the other does nothing to solve the worry over whether anyone will LOVE THEM. I thought it was all about love, not sex.
The adults are more confused than the kids.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Political correctness is
May 22, 2008 - 01:59 ET by mostlymoderatePolitical correctness is killing this country. Liberals ask us to "tolerate" everything that is hurting us. They ask us to tolerate homosexuality when it is nothing but perverse. They ask us to tolerate abortion when it kills a human life. They ask us to "tolerate" religious zealots that wish for the destruction of America. Conservatives really need to speak up and not stand for this constant desecration of our morals and values. Homosexuality should have remained in the closet and does not belong in our schools.
Gay-rights group Faith in
May 22, 2008 - 03:46 ET by mister josephGay-rights group Faith in America
anyone bothered that a Gay-rights group is using a name that makes one think 'Christian group?'
Or does the name effectively reveal all about the faith of liberals?
Another example
May 22, 2008 - 05:29 ET by BobAnthonyOf government fascism in government schools thanks to a communist based idealogue that homosexual behavior is normal! THE IDEA!
Homosexuality is un-natural at best ...
May 22, 2008 - 06:40 ET by BodiniIn the natural order, procreation/pollination etc. provides for a means to sustain the life-cycle and therefore help stave off extinction. It seems the green-loving libs, who are so concerned about endangered species would understand that promoting the choice of homosexuality is a sure-fired path to ending the human race. The last time I checked, people of the same gender, having sex with each other, have no means of reproducing themselves. That said, at best, homosexuality is unnatural.
And for those who argue that it is not a choice, an article in Investors Business Daily several years ago reported the UCLA medical center had determined there were 30+ genetic differences between males and females. They went on to state this was good news when trying to determine gender assignment for babies born with both types of genitalia, but pointed out that this did not bode well for the homosexuals who like to say "I was born that way." Genetic testing can prove whether one is male or female. If a person then prefers sex with someone of their own gender, I view that as choice. Lest I be branded a homophobe, I want to clearly state that I could care less about what consenting adults do behind their own doors, but I draw the line when our children are indoctrinated by the public schools to accept every type of behavior that the lawyers and liberal educators deem OK, while excluding the institutions, morals, and values that made this country great!
While I'm on a roll, a previous post talked about the separation of church and state. If that is true, why is the church hamstrung by the state, which uses the IRS to wage war on the church and free speech. Why is it that the state is free to squash religion, but reciprocity is forbidden by the state? Why is it that degenerate organizations can form clubs in public schools, but Christian based clubs can't exist? If you really want true separation of church and state, and want to experience real freedom, promote the Fair Tax and get the government's heavy handed IRS out of our lives!
Lawyers are professional deceivers. Never cast your ballot for a person who is paid to lie!
Is this post a joke?
May 22, 2008 - 07:25 ET by JasonCIs this post a joke? Gender identity and sexuality are totally different. The 'study' cited in your middle paragraph pertains to precisely nothing.
The idiotically-obvious question: Was there a moment when you consciously decided to be heterosexual?
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Note a joke
May 22, 2008 - 08:01 ET by BodiniNote a joke Jason ... I am a male (God's work) ... heterosexual by choice! I choose not to be a homosexual, I choose to have a monogomous relationship with one adult woman, my wife. My choice does not have to be yours, but I still don't have to accept the premise that it is anything other than a choice!
I draw the line-in-the-sand here because the next liberal deviance to be rammed down our throat might very well be a defense of pedophiles when they too proclaim "I can't help it, I was born that way!"
You may choose to engage in
May 22, 2008 - 08:05 ET by JasonCYou may choose to engage in heterosexual acts, but you're telling me you made the choice to be heterosexual. Not buying it. Imagine your outrage if someone said "Well, it's a choice, and you should just choose to be homosexual" when you're obviously not. Not exactly fair, is it? Welcome to the homosexual experience of the past few millenia or so. Now that things are finally becoming equal for them, if they want to have a high school club to discuss it and lend one another support during the painful process of coming out, more power to them.
Your last paragraph is just silly. Homosexuality, as we're discussing it, involves consent and is no different from heterosexuality except for the sex organs involved. Trying to align it with pedophilia is an old, sad little trick.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
So, you're okay with a
May 22, 2008 - 08:19 ET by mofosesameSo, you're okay with a bestiality club?
Listen, the fact that you think they need a club shows me that you consider homosexuality to be unnatural. Why else would they need a club?
I don't know anybody who hates gays but I do know people that are tired of hearing about their lifestyle as if we should care what they do in their own time.
Whats with the outrageous comparisions
May 22, 2008 - 08:25 ET by shawn228First gays are compared to the KKK, Nazi's, The Black Panther.s Then it involves with sex with children, now beastility.
It is kind of a stretch to compare sex with 2 human beings, than sex with animals isn't it?
Nope, I never compared the
May 22, 2008 - 08:29 ET by mofosesameNope, I never compared the two. It's different, they feel different and they believe they were born that way. So, they must deserve a club, right?
Right??
By your logic, we should do
May 22, 2008 - 08:34 ET by JasonCBy your logic, we should do away with all clubs and activities. There certainly shouldn't be a football team, as it discriminates against those kids who weren't born with football player physiques or athleticism, right? Right?
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Your argument makes no
May 22, 2008 - 08:43 ET by mofosesameYour argument makes no sense. The ability to play football has nothing to do with sex. There are no Closet Tight Ends (pun intended).
Get with it.
LOL, Jason! You really
May 22, 2008 - 08:45 ET by tracheostomyLOL, Jason! You really think sex is just an activity we do with exotic body parts? Like thumb-wrestling or something?
I'm trying to take you seriously, but. . .c'mon. Help me out here.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Except....these clubs
May 22, 2008 - 08:52 ET by JasonCExcept....these clubs AREN'T about having sex. I wish you people would get that through your heads. They're about lending support to kids who, especially in small-town SC, would be likely ostracized if and when they come out. If two gay students happen to meet and find themselves attracted to one another through one of these meetings, it's no different from the two leads in the school production of Romeo and Juliet deciding to date. High school is a hotbed of hormones and interactions with peers, some of which happens to be sexually-charged. Just because a group that mainly consists of homosexuals happens to meet doesn't mean every meeting will devolve into sodomy; and to think that is the case is the very essence of homophobia, I'm afraid.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
"They're about lending
May 22, 2008 - 09:03 ET by mofosesame"They're about lending support to kids who, especially in small-town SC, would be likely ostracized if and when they come out."
I'll ask again...
You're okay with a beastiality club?
I've already addressed this
May 22, 2008 - 09:16 ET by JasonCI've already addressed this inane and specious line of so-called reasoning.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
LOL my banner ads changed
May 22, 2008 - 09:06 ET by tracheostomyLOL my banner ads changed right here in the middle of the discussion!
J: Except....these clubs AREN'T about having sex. I wish you people would
get that through your heads. They're about lending support to kids who,
especially in small-town SC, would be likely ostracized if and when
they come out.
About their sexual preference? How'd they get that way? You got "B" before "A" here, Jason. Also, you got your hypothetical targets mixed up. I was harassed for being gay despite my truthful protests to the contrary.
So, when it comes to blocking out HS memories, I think it's you and Cleverpig.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
High school kids call
May 22, 2008 - 09:15 ET by JasonCHigh school kids call everyone and everything gay. It's the catch-all insult. So what if you actually ARE gay? Chances are, you're going to be afraid to come out considering what a hostile environment high school seems to be toward homosexuality in general.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
J: High school kids call
May 22, 2008 - 09:21 ET by tracheostomyJ: High school kids call everyone and everything gay. It's the catch-all
insult. So what if you actually ARE gay? Chances are, you're going to
be afraid to come out considering what a hostile environment high
school seems to be toward homosexuality in general.
Why such an intense need to "come out" gay or straight during HS? C'mon? I'm two moves ahead. Just be honest here.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Exactly Trach
May 22, 2008 - 10:32 ET by Dee Bunkthere is enough peer pressure to experiment in sex already, we don't need the school condoning it.
Kids who choose to abstain (especially if they are male) are made to feel like freaks. It's so sad how these liberals can defend this.
You're not ahead of
May 22, 2008 - 09:28 ET by JasonCYou're not ahead of anything. High school is when pretty much all people come into their sexual self. In popular culture and in real life. If you have a problem with that across the board, fine. But if you're saying that all the straight kids should be able to date and make out and the gay kids should just keep it to themselves, well, that's not fair, is it?
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
No one here is trying to criminalize Gay people making out
May 22, 2008 - 09:34 ET by Dee BunkJason. We are talking about a school sanctioned sex themed club.
How many times do I have to
May 22, 2008 - 09:36 ET by JasonCHow many times do I have to spell it out for you people? These clubs are not about the sex act.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
»→ You people?
May 22, 2008 - 09:41 ET by Cool ArrowWhy do you refer to heterosexuals as "you people"?
Are you insinuating I think all you homosexuals think alike also?
Don't put words in my mouth and I'll refrain from putting stuff in yours.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Good catch there Cool Arrow - Jason - Mr self righteous himself
May 22, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Dee Bunkabout people generalizing.
It is about sex. The only thing that distinguishes a gay person from a straight one is who they want to have sex with.
J: How many times do I
May 22, 2008 - 09:50 ET by tracheostomyJ: How many times do I have to spell it out for you people? These clubs are not about the sex act.
Intention or execution? Your constant repetition is misleading. You assume exectution, when you're allowing an environment to fuel intent.
How about a HS gun club with live ammo? No?
How about Dee's Nympho club? BTW, that post of her's was TOTAL GENIUS!!!
And there are farm kids from the AAA schools that mess around with animals. Washington state has been having problems with the adults who stick with it. Does that mean the farm kids intend a lasting relationship with the animals they experiment with? Why don't we promote a club that lets them talk about and exploooore those feelings? Nothing wrong with that, right? Just because you say it's icky, it doesn't harm anyone, rrriiiight???
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Busted!
May 22, 2008 - 09:37 ET by tracheostomyJ: You're not ahead of anything. High school is when pretty much all
people come into their sexual self.
This is nothing more than an argument to majority. Even worse, it's an appeal to a majority that can barely make a rational adult decision. Just because they may make a mistake, doesn't mean that we as adults should step aside and condone these actions.
Your argument is nothing more than an argument based on apathy and compromise. <--- To minors no less.
Try something else, like thinking for a change. Put down the talking points and reason with me Jason. I know you're capable of this.
J: In popular culture and in real
life. If you have a problem with that across the board, fine. But if
you're saying that all the straight kids should be able to date and
make out and the gay kids should just keep it to themselves, well,
that's not fair, is it?
What exactly do you mean by that Jason? Please elaborate for the rest of the class your jealously of the extracurricular activities of the breeders. There aren't any unresolved issues you have to work out now, is there?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Since you keep making this
May 22, 2008 - 09:41 ET by JasonCSince you keep making this about sex, I've had to respond in kind. See my very first post, now on page 2. High School basically is one big heterosexual club. If gay students want a place where they can discuss how they feel in a safe environment, I say great. It's not complicated, really. These clubs are not bath-houses, they're basically support groups, and in SC I would imagine a gay person would need the support.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
J: High School basically
May 22, 2008 - 10:02 ET by tracheostomyJ: High School basically is one big heterosexual club.
You're assuming we accept that premise as well. I thought HS was supposed to be about promoting public education to prepare for the general blue-collar workforce or college prep.
J: If gay students
want a place where they can discuss how they feel in a safe
environment, I say great. It's not complicated, really. These clubs are
not bath-houses, they're basically support groups, and in SC I would
imagine a gay person would need the support.
Support groups to support what? Feelings about what? Intent. Period. And one not even set in stone yet either.
The HS environment is not the world of adults. Also, you're making a so-called private act that the pre-adult is still wondering about into a public matter in a public High-School.
That is, assuming they're not already engaged in the act, otherwise all you're doing with the club is promoting the act whether you actually engage in it or not.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
What exactly do you mean
May 22, 2008 - 10:29 ET by cleverpigWhat exactly do you mean by that Jason? Please elaborate for the rest of the class your jealously of the extracurricular activities of the breeders. There aren't any unresolved issues you have to work out now, is there?
Nice, well done! Way to fulfill our very lowest expectations for you. Anyone who stands up for gay people must be gay themselves.
Ask Dee how she feels about that sentiment, since she was such a crusader for the gay students in her school. Maybe we can just put 10 Dee's in every high school, remove all the trachs, and then we wouldn't need Gay/Straight Alliance clubs.
Nice try to devide Trach and I just because we feel differently
May 22, 2008 - 10:42 ET by Dee Bunkabout gay people. It's not going to work. Our basic argument is the same and I don't think trach would be someone who would bully gay people. AT ALL. In fact I think LIBERALS and children of liberals are much more likely to bully people. I see it with my friends children.
You liberals like to say that just because someone doesn't agree with their lifestyle choice, that automatically means they will bully them. Trach even mentioned that he was a victim of bullies. You are too thick headed to see any valid arguments.
You assumed only the stereotypical response!!!
May 22, 2008 - 10:44 ET by tracheostomyCP: Nice, well done! Way to fulfill our very lowest expectations for you. Anyone who stands up for gay people must be gay themselves.
LOL! Slow down on the skimming. I was talking about breeder-envy. You're just putting words in my mouth. And conservative stereotype talking points don't fly with me.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
CP, I said "breeder" and
May 22, 2008 - 10:50 ET by tracheostomyCP, I said "breeder" and you're the one who's knee-jerk reacting and narrow-mindedly reading into my posts.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself. That last post of yours was a communication disaster.
Learn to freaking read. Conservatives are "evil geniuses", remember? This is why you got no game, because you NEVER anticipate a change-up.
Pathetic.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
This liberal
May 22, 2008 - 10:55 ET by tracheostomyThis liberal sexual-appeasement argument of Jason and CP naturally rests upon, "all the straights are doing it." Period.
This is nothing but breeder envy and a fallacious argument to the majority.
PM me when you come up with something you haven't repeated, because you really don't have anything other than that.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Right. Who envies
May 22, 2008 - 19:11 ET by cleverpigRight.
Who envies breeders, now?
Keep replying to yourself,
May 22, 2008 - 19:13 ET by cleverpigKeep replying to yourself, I'm off to the Caribbean :)
Back in 2 weeks to provide more headaches.
That would be butt aches not headaches CP
May 23, 2008 - 08:29 ET by Dee Bunkyour a pain in the butt not the head. You don't penetrate our thoughts with your nonsense.
Have fun on vacation and we'll be glad to shoot down your illogical arguments when you get back.
"Have fun on vacation and
May 23, 2008 - 09:18 ET by shawn228"Have fun on vacation and we'll be glad to shoot down your illogical arguments when you get back"
Wow, have you ever thought of working for Hallmark? :-)
LOL, Shawn! I'd buy that
May 23, 2008 - 10:48 ET by tracheostomyLOL, Shawn! I'd buy that card! I'd by a whole box!
And when you open it, it'll play, "Don't Stand So Close To Me" by the Police.
-PJ
It has everything to do
May 22, 2008 - 08:48 ET by JasonCIt has everything to do with your post: It's different, they feel different and they believe they were born that way. So, they must deserve a club, right?
What does "deserving" a club have to do with it? They wanted to form a club and meet after school once or twice. Why is it any different from the Chess club or the yearbook committee.
The irony is, you wouldn't have to have your prudish eyes and ears offended by the idea of a gay club if the principal hadn't made it an issue. Instead of being a news item, it would have just been one more school that has one outlet for kids who feel they are or might be homosexual to have others to talk to about it.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Now all of sudden my eyes
May 22, 2008 - 08:52 ET by mofosesameNow all of sudden my eyes are prudish. Nice.
It's not something the school should sponsor, that's all. If the kids want to share, let them do it on their own. If the school sponsors it, the slope gets slippery. That's all.
Bottom line: Sex between
May 22, 2008 - 08:32 ET by JasonCBottom line: Sex between two men is just sooo gross.
Yeah, we'll equate it with bestiality and necrophilia and rape and pederasty. Yup, not homophobic at all.
<sarc off>
I'm thrilled the principal quit over this, I mean it's great he stuck to his guns and all, but I wouldn't want a guy like that in charge of a school.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
J: Bottom line: Sex
May 22, 2008 - 09:09 ET by tracheostomyJ: Bottom line: Sex between two men is just sooo gross.
Then why do they need a third party to manufacture the lube?
Seriously.
Sure, the "unnatural" argument sounds just sooo gross (and redneck to boot), but no. . .you never consider the merit on that side of the argument either.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I don't think they
May 22, 2008 - 08:28 ET by JasonCI don't think they necessarily NEED a club, but if they feel that they need and want one, I think it's fine. Tired of hearing about their lifestyle? If you didn't make an issue out of them doing something as innocuous as getting together after school, and just live and let live, you wouldn't have to hear about it.
Comparing homosexuality to bestiality now? Nice. If you can't see why sex between two men or two women is on a completely different plane from sex with animals, I don't even know where to begin. But to put it plainly, a significant number of people in the US are gay, enough so that they are a distinct demographic. The number of people who would engage in bestiality (or necrophilia, for that matter) is almost negligible. They are extraordinarily rarefied paraphilias. If for some reason they became much more widespread, yes, I'd find it troubling, but I wouldn't be opposed to people discussing it.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Either you're not paying
May 22, 2008 - 08:45 ET by mofosesameEither you're not paying attention or you're just stupid. I never compared the two lifestyles.
Oh I can compare the sex
May 22, 2008 - 08:45 ET by taterOh I can compare the sex between people of the same sex to beastility....both are unnatural and not the way God intended sex to be. Despite how PC or tolerant you want to the be...that's the way it is.
"They need to have a course in college called common sense and everyone should take it. Problem is there isn't too many people that could pass or teach it." -my grandfather
sex the noun:male or
May 23, 2008 - 10:29 ET by TruthMongersex the noun:
male or female
sex the verb
sex the verb is an act you must choose to do and then physically act upon it - your body does not ever force you to have sex the verb - you choose to have it, always
choosing to engage in the act of sex with a member of the opposite sex is heterosexuality
choosing to engage in the act of sex with a member of the same sex is homoexuality
right now I am not engaging in sex the verb, so I am neither heterosexual or homosexual at the moment
likewise these gay club members are hot homosexual unless they are engaging in the act of homosexual sex at the moment
this club is about people who feel romantically or sexually attracted to members of the same sex
they may have been born with these urges - we are all born with sexual urges of some type - and some may have been born with ped urges, some may have been born with beastiality urges
and some may have aquired these urges via socialization instead
but all of those people can choose to engage or not to engage in the subsequent physical acts of those urges
they must choose to do so, they are not forced by their urges - they can GIVE IN to those urges - but it is still a choice they make - we all give in to something sometimes - we are weak in the flesh
some feel fine with giving in to these urges
some, like me, do not
the civilized solution - meaning both types must coexist on the same planet, often in the same town - is to allow all parties to make their cases and let the voters decide - free speech and democracy
let the school have a gay club
but also have a straight club to allow all facets of the issue to be freely and completely discussed - without being slandered as bigot homophobes
or have neither, fair is fair
I care about the health of my neighbors because I love my neighbors - and this is a serious health issue for me and my community
Soooo tired of this tired
May 22, 2008 - 08:51 ET by cleverpigSoooo tired of this tired argument.
1) Biological does not mean genetic. To wit, your height is affected but not determined by genes. Early environment, nutrition, all affect how tall you will be. The fact that something is not strictly inherited does not mean that it is therefore a choice. Go ahead and choose to be seven feet tall, see where that gets you.
2) There are biological correlations with sexual orientation, including birth order (which can also have social affects), brain structure, and even the ratio of the lengths of your middle and ring finger. Go ahead and choose to change any of those things, see how fast your fingers grow.
3) Research done with rats and hamsters has shown very clearly that behavioral sex is not always tied to morphological sex. If you disrupt hormones in utero you get male rats that perform lordosis, which is the female solicitation posture, and you get female rats which mount other females. You really think the rats are making a lifestyle choice?
So yeah, if I'm gay I can choose not to ever act on my desires, the same way that any heterosexual person can choose never to have sex with someone they are actually attracted to. Why we would ever want to impose such a sad penalty on part of our population just for being different is completely incomprehensible to me.
Can we have some honesty
May 22, 2008 - 05:34 ET by Jack BauerCan we have some honesty here.
The pupose of the club (which I can assure you will have been the idea of adults who are NOT students at the school) will be for one thing.
To give the "members" ready access to other like minded under 18s they can f***.
That's it.
How do you know?
May 22, 2008 - 05:36 ET by blogonatorMaybe you habe been a member?
And maybe not. But let's
May 22, 2008 - 06:16 ET by Jack BauerAnd maybe not. But let's leave my member out of it.
"...the federal law known
May 22, 2008 - 07:14 ET by dmntd1Could we not make the case that these individuals are forming a club based upon sex with minors, thereby making the purpose of the club unlawful? Thin argument, I know, but I'm sure a better thinker than me might figure out a way to do this.
Fascism is a religious conception in which man is seen in his imminent relationship with a superior law and with an objective will that transcends the particular individual - Mussolini
It may not be homophobic
May 22, 2008 - 07:22 ET by JasonCIt may not be homophobic per se, but it is idiotic beyond belief. My God, where to begin.
Now we are likening keeping a sex club out of a high school with "segregation"?
A sex club? Really?! Do you realize what this implies? So, in a small southern town in which gay students have probably no other outlet whatsoever, a group can't meet on school grounds to act as a support group for one another's burgeoning (and likely troubled) sexual identity without the assumption that they meet to get oiled up and have a free-for-all orgy?
This sentiment is homophobic, by the way. Nothing riles up a social conservative who uses post after post to rag on homosexuals and bitch and moan about how, as a heterosexual, he or she is sooo oppressed by comparison, than being called a homophobe. But when you make the leap from GLBT alliance to "secret sex orgy" you have gone off the deep end of the assumption that gay people are all, inherently, sex addicts; a notion that was last held by semi-sane people in maybe 1983.
The Bible quotes; everyone knows you can cite the Bible to condemn homosexuality, you're not impressing anyone. And it's not even remotely the issue. Homosexuality is not illegal, so all your Old Testament-thumping doesn't mean much to people who think for themselves and prefer to consider law over scripture regarding such issues.
Cleverpig, as usual, offers an excellent rebuttal. The majority of posters have turned this issue into an all-encompassing strawman. NAMBLA, KKK, Nazis, bestiality; how you people can claim not to be homophobic and keep a straight face is beyond me.
This principal quit because a gay alliance club was formed. Frankly, I'm glad a person whose convictions over homosexuality are that strong did quit rather than continue to wield influence over these students. And yes, I get the subtext of his resignation. He says:
I feel the formation of a Gay/Straight Alliance Club at Irmo High
school implies that students joining the club will have chosen to or
will choose to engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex,
opposite sex, or members of both sexes.
But again, the purpose of these clubs is not the sex act. Is this so difficult to understand? It is, and always has been, about providing support to students who recognize that they are different and for them to discuss it and feel like they're not alone. In most cases, it is a gay/straight alliance, meaning that straight students are invited as well. Solidarity and all that, which has got to be tough in some backwater small town of SC. Which pretty much sinks the idea that this is about discrimination.
Remember the old joke, which has gotten a lot of mileage in comic strips like Family Circus and Blondie, where it's Mother's Day and the mom is being lavished with gifts and attention, and one of the kids says "So when is kid's day?" It's kind of like that. Every aspect of high school culture is aggressively, dogmatically heterosexual. You all are freaking out about their not being a complementary heterosexual club? That's because it's redundant! Everything about high school is the heterosexual club.
Il y a la merde quel remort produit quand il a mange trop stupidite.
There's no such thing as
May 22, 2008 - 15:38 ET by mattmThere's no such thing as homophobia. That is just a made up 'disorder' designed to weild as a club over the heads of anyone who doesn't buy the pro-gay agenda.
You can blather on all you want, and maybe you'll convince yourself, but it won't change the simple fact that human beings are heterosexual by nature, and that therefore homosexuality is unnatural at best. You don't need a bible to figure that out, either.
Now, of course this doesn't mean gays should be persecuted. I think they should be helped, the way we'd help anyone with a behavioral disorder. But the militant gays refuse to look at it as a behavioral disorder, so they invented their own, called it homophobia, and now they use it as a weapon against anyone who dares suggest that homosexuality is anything less than A-O.K.
It was a clever trick, and it has worked pretty well. But it doesn't change the facts, and when it is used to label someone as a bigot, it is just as prejudicial and wrong and bigoted as the pro-gay people claim the 'homophobes' are.
I don't care if someone sleeps with snakes!
May 22, 2008 - 08:50 ET by jefflebowskibut it does not belong in public discussion. What people do in private is none of my business. I respect that. I may not agree with what they are doing...but it is not my business.
However, this club should not be supported at the high school level in my opinion. If the gay/straight/bi/transgender/confused students want to meet, let them do it off campus. I'm sure it happens all the time.
I agree with the other posters that clubs based on sexual matters should not be allowed on a high school campus. After high school, they can join many of these groups in college...or move to San Francisco.
Except that being told they
May 22, 2008 - 08:54 ET by JasonCExcept that being told they can't meet on school grounds is basically a big middle-finger to them. "Go have your little gay club somewhere else." If no one else, the school system should give at least implicit support and tolerance. And as far as I know, they wouldn't be asking anything of the school (money or other resources) other than a room to meet in.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Right Jason
May 22, 2008 - 09:07 ET by Cool Arrow"A room to meet in". And maybe a few stools.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
lol CA
May 22, 2008 - 09:22 ET by shawn228I don't argree with your implication, but damn that funny.
Jason, so what?
May 22, 2008 - 09:13 ET by jefflebowskiSo big deal, neither can any other group that is based on sexual issues. Straight, gay, whatever. I agree with the other posters that any type of sexually based clubs should not be allowed to meet on school grounds. It sends the wrong message that children should be engaged in sex. If they want to meet somewhere else, a park, a restaurant, wherever...that is their right. Public schools should be devoid of sexual clubs...no matter if there is cost or not.
Its...Not...About...Having..
May 22, 2008 - 09:18 ET by JasonCIts...Not...About...Having...Sex.
It's about support for other people who realize they are part of a group that has been historically ostracized, marginalized, murdered, etc. simply because they are part of that group.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Jason, we realize that this is a sensitve topic for you
May 22, 2008 - 09:40 ET by jefflebowskiI never said it was...about...having...sex.
If you feel you've been ostracized, marginalized, murdered, etc. because you are gay....then....support...yourselves....off-campus.
Gays will never win support of straight people by constantly trying to push themselves into the lives of straight people. When you want to have a gay club at a high school in small town South Carolina...you're pushing. Keep it quiet, keep it private and you'll be surprised how few people care what you do in private.
»→ Jason, seek reality.
May 22, 2008 - 11:16 ET by Cool Arrow"Gay" "is not about having sex"?
So, other than sexual preference, how are gays different than heterosexuals?
Still waiting Jason
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
You are exactly right. The
May 22, 2008 - 23:56 ET by Cureboy675You are exactly right. The only difference is in the sexual preference. But the fact that so many people think a certain sexual preference is a horrible terrible thing...I think that warrants an opportunity for these gay teenagers to get together and talk about their experiences and their problems.
I can't imagine it being easy at that age to struggle with an alternate sexuality...It can't do much for one's self esteem to hear people telling you how evil you are. And then to be told that you've chosen this "lifestyle"...That you've chosen to make yourself a lonely outcast. I read once where the gay youth is six times as likely to commit suicide. And if there is a place where these kids can get together and maybe make themselves feel not so alone. I'm okay with that. They aren't making anybody sit there and listen to them try to put forth some gay agenda. It isn't a big cruising for sex club (if it is, I would think the straight part of the gay-straight alliance would get tired of that real quick). They just want to talk about something they have in common.
(And please don't go on the tirade about how people who like to have sex with dogs or children want to talk about what they have in common...Thats an extreme unrealistic example that would never even be proposed in a high school)
CB675: But the fact that
May 23, 2008 - 01:39 ET by tracheostomyCB675: But the fact that so many people think a certain sexual preference
is a horrible terrible thing...I think that warrants an opportunity for
these gay teenagers to get together and talk about their experiences
and their problems.
That would mean they would be talking about sex, and if not the actual act, then the intent. Because homosexuality is a settled intent towards one gender. Something a teenager may or may not be ready to settle on.
Let's say a teen thinks they're gay. Should they work out such (truly) private inner conflicts by themselves, with their parents, a private counselor, or in a public group setting where the mere mention of your showing will spread like wildfire? No, if you're showing up at the door in the first place, then you're pretty comfortable with your sexuality already, IMO.
CB675: I can't imagine it being easy at that age to struggle with an
alternate sexuality...It can't do much for one's self esteem to hear
people telling you how evil you are.
I'm pretty sure it's a whole lot more laid back atmosphere now than it was when I went to HS in the early 90s.
Question: How come we're only catering to gays here? How about a system that addresses all attacks on other kids' self-esteem without such specifically named clubs?
Regardless of "allies" being allowed to attend, it still smacks of sexual segregation to me.
CB675: And then to be told that you've
chosen this "lifestyle"...That you've chosen to make yourself a lonely
outcast.
To whom? People you wouldn't want to prefer the company of in the first place? Loggers and long-haul truckers? Your parents who you couldn't or wouldn't be open with about who you were in the first place? Why do your genitals have to play such a pivotal role in every-single-relationship you have?
CB675: I read once where the gay youth is six times as likely to
commit suicide.
That's a fun statistic to play around with, because medical records are sealed because of patient privacy rights. As a result, such "academic" studies begin with skewed data. Garbage in; garbage out.
CB675: And if there is a place where these kids can get
together and maybe make themselves feel not so alone.
With other people who's priority is making their genital outlets the daily topic du jour? Whatever happened to personal dignity? How about an activity club not centered on sexuality? What's wrong with that?
Oh wait. Is it because you identify gay teens by their sexuality alone? How about we take care of the whole person instead?
CB675: I'm okay with
that. They aren't making anybody sit there and listen to them try to
put forth some gay agenda.
No, it's more subtle than that. Sometimes they plan activities and fund-raisers just like other clubs. They elect representatives and go to local marches and rallies and things. . .wait. Scratch everything I said about subtlety.
CB675: It isn't a big cruising for sex club (if it
is, I would think the straight part of the gay-straight alliance would
get tired of that real quick).
Right. Jason already stressed that all public High Schools are one giant sex club already.
CB675: They just want to talk about something
they have in common.
What would that be? Why don't you just say it?
CB675: (And please don't go on the tirade about how people who like to have
sex with dogs or children want to talk about what they have in
common...Thats an extreme unrealistic example that would never even be
proposed in a high school)
How extreme? Don't forget how many letters were added to the public-relations alphabet since Stonewall.
Go to one class. Turn to chapter one. The first week you learn A. The next week, B. Then C, D, E. . .etc.
Bell rings. It's time for G/S alliance. Turn to activity one. The first week you learn G. The next week, L. Then B, T, (C) etc.
You curious? You're more than welcome here. We won't condemn you. All the breeders are doing it. You must be so frustrated. If there's any way we can help you feel better, let us know.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
School is no place for these clubs
May 22, 2008 - 09:04 ET by nkviking75If there was an attempt to create a Sexual Purity club, the ACLU would be all over it. They'd claim it was promoting a religious doctrine (no sex outside of marriage). They'd also say that if it was a club that had any connection to the school, that would suggest approval of that viewpoint by the school. Then they'd say it was unconstitutional.
These Gay/Straight alliance clubs promote one point of view and try to label the religious point of view "bigotry". If they are allowed and anything that remotely smacks of being "religious" is supressed, the school effectively takes sides in the debate.
Keep these Gay/Straight alliance clubs out of school. Don't forget, constitutionally they can meet on their own time outside of school.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Actually, lots of schools
May 22, 2008 - 09:11 ET by JasonCActually, lots of schools have abstinence clubs with pledges and thing like that.
Who can revolt if man has become a simple conglomerate of organs, a person barely free enough to use a remote control to choose his channel? -J. Kristeva
Legality?
May 22, 2008 - 10:15 ET by americaneagleI keep seeing this put into the context of legality when certain posters are trying tot justify the formation of this club on campus. The argument seems to be that a porno club would not be kosher since it is illegal to show porn to minors, or that an alcohol club would be out of bounds since serving alcohol to minors is illegal. But what makes underaged sexual activity legal, whether it is hetero or homo activity? Children having sex before the age of consent is by definition statutory rape, so shouldn't this club be off limits as it seems to encourage and celebrate the breaking of state stat rape laws? Just wondering how far we are willing to go with the whole legality arguments.
american eagle
May 22, 2008 - 10:25 ET by shawn228I'm not sure what the exact law is, but I would imagine 2 minors that have sex is not statuatory rape.
They are both under age and they are both will participants.
my opinion
May 22, 2008 - 10:40 ET by candanceI don't the kids are necessarily doing this to for a chance to find willing sex partners. Honestly, if you go to high school these days you can pretty much find whatever you want just by asking around; no need to start a club for it.
That said, it is a complicated issue because kids are forming clubs on the basis of sexual preference. IMO it isn't comparable to NAMBLA as much as it would be starting a club for football players who only want to date blondes, or Hispanics who only want to date other Hispanics. If the school has an abstinence-only philosophy then the school shouldn't house any club that deals specifically with sexual urges.
IMO the press (and most liberals here) are only defending because it's popular to defend anything related to gay rights. And I agree with WTH that comparing it with segregation is a ridiculous stretch. If the shoe was on the other foot (the club wanted to discuss why homosex is bad) would folks on here be so quick to defend it?
I THOUGHT...
May 22, 2008 - 16:18 ET by DAN_THE_MANkids when to school to learn
reading, writing and arithmetic.