Here is a perfect example of the sort of wild-eyed leftism that is so infused into the very souls of every journalist that claims the mantle of the fourth estate. It's also a perfect example of how they are in the tank for their messiah, Obama. Newsweek's Rich Wolffe and Evan Thomas have presented a fawning review of how Barack Obama is so cool and collected under political fire, but warns their messiah that the GOP is still filled with meanies who have been "successfully scaring voters since 1968." Of course, not a word is spoken of all the scare tactics that the Democrat Party has used since time immemorial and Wolffe and Thomas act as if their pals at the DNC are just innocents in the wilderness unfairly assaulted by those nasty Republicans.
After celebrating Obama's new, gentler politics, Newsweek gets down to brass tacks to warn Obama about those awful Republicans.
If the candidate seemed weary and peevish or a little slow to respond at times, he never lost his cool. But the real test is yet to come. The Republican Party has been successfully scaring voters since 1968, when Richard Nixon built a Silent Majority out of lower- and middle-class folks frightened or disturbed by hippies and student radicals and blacks rioting in the inner cities. The 2008 race may turn on which party will win the lower- and middle-class whites in industrial and border states--the Democrats' base from the New Deal to the 1960s, but "Reagan Democrats" in most presidential elections since then. It is a sure bet that the GOP will try to paint Obama as "the other"--as a haughty black intellectual who has Muslim roots (Obama is a Christian) and hangs around with America-haters.
But, let's do a little review of the "scaring voters" that the Democrat Party has been a party to. And, heck, we don't even have to go as far back as when the Democrats tried to cause fear that "miscegenation" would occur if Republicans were successful in ending slavery. Or the many decades of fear the Democrats spread with Jim Crow laws. No, we don't even have to remind everyone that the largest number of members of the KKK were Democrats – heck, the Democrats even have an ex-KKK member as a Senator in West Virginia to this very day. Just about everyone knows these things even if the modern press wants us all to forget it.
But, the Democrat Party is famous for its scare tactics. For instance, let's revisit the famous Daisy ad the Dems ran in 1964 against Barry Goldwater where the Democrats made everyone afraid that Goldwater was going to start a nuclear war if he was elected.
Or how about when Ronald Reagan proposed changes in the welfare systems during the early part of his presidency. It was claimed that he would starve school children with his plans. It was also claimed by several Democrat politicians that Republicans wanted to make our water too polluted to drink during those Reagan days. And, let us not forget when it was claimed that Reagan also wanted to start a nuclear war just as they claimed Goldwater wanted to. Remember how they called him Ronald Raygun?
We have seen Democrats over and over again try to scare the voters into voting for Democrats. They have a full litany of scare tactics. As far as Democrats are concerned, Republicans want to take away a women's "right" to abortion, take away all support systems for the needy, start wars all across the globe, take away our civil rights, keep blacks from getting ahead, deny all minorities any success, steal us all blind with unfair business tactics like Enron’s, install a religious state... well, it goes on and on.
So, for these "journalists" to act as if only the GOP is involved in "scaring voters" is an act so blind, an act so filled with partisan rancor, that it defies description. But it is certainly a common assumption by the bulk of the MSM. Remember, to most journalists Democrats are all that’s good in the world.
(photo credit: Irony Smirony)
(h/t Newsbuster reader David Henry)
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Warner, I think
May 11, 2008 - 14:13 ET by DEVILDOCMOMyou are being unfair..wasn't bho cool calm and collected as he discussed the 57 states? Notice how he did not even bat an eye as he discussed them? If that isn't cool, I don't know what is...
Liberal tolerance on
May 11, 2008 - 14:31 ET by wiwfLiberal tolerance on parade. I forgot that using facts and appealing to personal responsibility was considered "scaring the public!"
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
Absolutely. The MSM's
May 11, 2008 - 15:11 ET by ThisnThatAbsolutely. The MSM's biggest fear this election? Republicans telling the truth. That's when all those MSM-types feel the "Tinkling down the legs".
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
"It is a sure bet that the
May 11, 2008 - 21:06 ET by Cortillaen"It is a sure bet that the GOP will try to paint Obama as "the
other"--as a haughty black intellectual who has Muslim roots (Obama is
a Christian) and hangs around with America-haters." No, no, he's done a great job of that himself. Incidentally, they forgot to add "wealthy" to their list. More likely, they intentionally omit any mention of his wealth which might turn off voters with the "just another rich politician" effect. Is it really too much to ask that media outlets just report the facts, all the facts, and nothing but the facts? Yeah, that was rhetorical...
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
peole are scared daily all right...
May 12, 2008 - 11:44 ET by TruthMonger...of "gorebal warming," "illegal phone taps," our "crappy stature" in the world, more terrorists that "Bush is creating," "torture" at gitmo, tax cuts "for the rich" that will have "all of our bridges collapsing..."
Obama cool?
May 11, 2008 - 18:37 ET by heldmywAlso effete, elite, antisemitic, a total noob at this game, and genuinely "not ready for prime time".
Had he never run for Prez, he would have been a Ted Kennedy clone until death, getting by on knee-jerk liberalism and platitudes. But presidential politics is a serious pressure cooker where the young, tender and totally NOT cool B.H. Obama is turning to mush, his snobbery and crass shallowness not standing up well at all.
Too bad?
PLEASE
May 11, 2008 - 22:09 ET by DEVILDOCMOMrealize I was being VERY sarcastic. I had hoped that came through.
Pretty fly for a white guy
May 11, 2008 - 15:07 ET by the mad poleA whole lot of crackling going on in those jeans. Bill Clinton had that spark, I wonder if the left will ever turn on this bum too.
The liberals always whine
May 11, 2008 - 15:22 ET by GregEThe liberals always whine about Republican "fear tactics."
So when liberals say these things, what are these 'tactics" called? ....."they're looking to endanger your Social Security"...."they want to take health insurance [SCHIP] away from millions of children"...."people are having to choose between buying gas and buying food"...."people are having to choose between buying food and buying medicine"...."millions of Americans are one significant health issue away from financial crisis"...."people are losing their health care benefits every day"...."the earth is warming, caused by humans, at an alarming rate"....etc....etc...etc.
"Fear" is not just related to war and external enemies. But liberals, as they like to do so often, seem to want Americans to think so.
And I'll add, how often do liberals talk about going hard at terrorists, going on the offensive against terrorists, taking it to the terrorists, etc etc. Not very often. They're too engrained in the mindset that mentioning those things is fear mongering or war mongering. Well, newsflash to liberals.........Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist organizations are the war mongers and the fear mongers. Why not set your sights on them to protect America and squash those freakin bugs from the earth? Is that too...oh I don't know...too "Republican" for the liberal politician? I guess it is, by their definition.
Fantastic, Greg! I was
May 11, 2008 - 15:49 ET by motherbeltFantastic, Greg! I was just about to post pretty much the same thing.
Democrats are masters of fear. They are the ones who run for office year after year on fear.
I'm sorry, but I just couldn't get through that whole article. I did read the first two pages, though, and after they mention riots in 1968, there wasn't another single word about exactly what Republicans would try to drum up fear over!!
Did anyone who read the whole thing, and was there a list of what Republicans have historically run on fear of, and what fear they can be expected to drum up this year? It looked to me like a description of the Obama campaign's strategy...so what's with the big "running on fear" deal????
Swiftboat ads? That's fear tactics?? They might question Obama's patriotism? That's fear tactics? Good grief! Dividing us????That's bush league stuff compared to what the Democrats instill fear of! Has Newsweek ever heard the "we're all one paycheck away from being homeless" line from the Democrats?
How about this old Democratic classic from 1998:
"When you don't vote, you let another church explode. When you don't vote, you allow another cross to burn. When you don't vote, you let another assault wound a brother or sister. When you don't vote, you let the Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start."
Republicans are absolute amateurs compared to Democrats when it comes to the "politics of fear."
fear tactics.....
May 11, 2008 - 17:15 ET by Paarlpaarl
Just remember that Evan Thomas is the son of Norman Thomas
(or grandson) ....also in the budget battles with Newt in 1996...the poor school lads and lasses were going to lose their gov't cheese!!!
Speaking of scare campaigns,
May 11, 2008 - 15:16 ET by NL207Speaking of scare campaigns, has Newsweek ever heard of Human caused Global Warming?
I think this is one "virtual
May 11, 2008 - 15:32 ET by Chris NormanI think this is one "virtual reality" that even Newsweek has trouble creating for voters - one needs only listen to an Obama attack speech (McCain wants a hundred year war in Iraq), a nasty Democrat politician - either on the floor of Congress or on a talk show, or the ferocious ads that will run this Fall to understand Newsweak is flat-out lying.
Lemme see....
May 11, 2008 - 15:38 ET by Army BratWants to talk with terrorists, visit the President of Canada, been to 57 states, hangs with a racist conspiracy minded pastor and criminals of all types...I could go on...
His old lady...hate filled and bitter.
What's not to like?
Happy Trails...
...it has been awhile now
May 11, 2008 - 15:36 ET by bigtimer...it has been awhile now but I remember when the dems were saying the big bad repubs were forcing the elderly of having to make a choice of being homeless or eating cat/dog food from the cans...think this had to do with food stamps and welfare programs.
Nothing has changed with these critters, scare tactics are getting old though...of course they always depend on a new generation to scare the heck out of too, unless the voters out there don't vote for them for even more socialistic programs that will take care of them, why nobody will be able to care for them from cradle to grave.
Nothing like leftist fear tactics with an agenda for their dream of one big socialistic society...which unfortunately I see happening more and more with them reaching their goals with the RINOs aide in all of this.
It really is never ending..and people always being a victim, or sue happy, or needing a therapist...instead of being self-dependent on oneself and taking pride in that, which should be a natural thing... it is a crying shame what our society is becoming in a lot of areas..but then again that is the agenda after-all with the leftists...
YOU out there need US!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
When you are a sweet talking ignoramus
May 11, 2008 - 15:50 ET by Delsaas Obama is, you tend to remain calm when remarking how forward looking he is to being president of the 60 States that make up the United States!
Remember he said he'd "been to 57 states with one more to go" and he added, "my staff has not allowed me to go to Hawaii and Alaska".
So by my math, he visited 57 states, has 1 more to go, and there were 2 states he was not allowed to visit. This = 60 States.
What a stupid ass.
So much for higher learning!
Where is the MSM?? Why has NO one mentioned it? Unreal!
This is what scares the heck out of me. The young skulls full of mush who swoon over him don't know we don't have 60 states and the silence of the MSM speaks to the fact that they don't know any different either.
Not scared, TERRIFIED !
Perhaps your wild theory is
May 11, 2008 - 15:52 ET by balboaPerhaps your wild theory is true...or perhaps everyone knows he simply misspoke.
Delsa, that was just a "slip
May 11, 2008 - 15:52 ET by motherbeltDelsa, that was just a "slip of the tongue" you know....but if McCain had said it they would be talking Alzheimers...or at the very least commenting that he keeps "losing his bearings."
Motherbelt
May 11, 2008 - 16:14 ET by DelsaWhat interested me when I watched him speak was the way he paused when he said, I have been to 57, pause, 58, pause, and back again to, 57 States, and have one more to go and my staff would not allow me to go to Hawaii or Alaska? UH?
No he was deliberate in his speeh pattern. The clips posted later, here and other places bare this out.
McCain should use his words in an ad. In the add someone should play the clip and then ask for McCain's reaction to what Obama said. Then McCain could say, I think Obama must have lost his bearings.
What do you think?
Yes, it would be great to
May 11, 2008 - 16:39 ET by motherbeltYes, it would be great to slap him back with the same words. But McCain wouldn't do it.
LOL mb... Nope...he is
May 11, 2008 - 16:51 ET by bigtimerLOL mb...
Nope...he is running a respectful campaign.
He said so.
Cindy said so.
That's that!
Can't wait for the general election...heheheee
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Delsa...Can you link the
May 11, 2008 - 18:52 ET by JerDelsa...Can you link the video in which Obama referred to 58 states? That was not in the video I watched [and linked by NewsBusters].
Jer
Actually, Jer
May 11, 2008 - 19:16 ET by Delsaafter watching this clip, I realize it was simply a pregnant pause Obama took and I guess I mentally searched the numbers for him. It is as though he was thinking,
Now, was that 57 or 58 and then settled on 57.
He did not say the words 58 but he was searching for something. Sorry. I must have taken poetic license?
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/09/obama-wants-to-be-president-of-57-states/
After watching it for a third time, they guy still thinks we have sixty states. Poor slob. Oops, I meant to say snob.
Thanks, Delsa...I'll admit
May 11, 2008 - 19:21 ET by JerThanks, Delsa...I'll admit that if this had been a McCain flub, it would have been front page news.
Jer
Hey, Boy, ...
May 11, 2008 - 23:32 ET by needleBesides all the fuss over “57 States” has anyone considered the remark: “…my staff would not [allow me to go to Hawaii or Alaska]”?
So this is the bold leader the Dems have settled upon; not a focus-group driven policy-wonkess, but a cipher led and managed by his staff. “Hey, Boy, we can’t have you going to Hawaii or Alaska .”
Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.
Everytime I hear what the Republicans have in store. . .
May 11, 2008 - 15:52 ET by terrigI was watching CNN (forced to I was stuck at the airport and that was what was playing at the gate) and some stupy do was yacking about the "hate" ads of Hillary Clinton but that was nothing compared to "what was in store for Barack when the Republican attack machine starts gearing up". Huh? The Dims have never run an "attack ad"? Please, they are the masters of attack ads and lying. But who cares as far as the libs and MSM is concerned. We all know Olberloser is so fair don't we?
PS That's an insult to St. Francis of Assisi to put Obummer's face on his portrait.
Liberal Foreign Policy
May 11, 2008 - 15:53 ET by the strugglerImagine Richard Wolffe and Keith Olbermann slapping each other with their purses.
GOP dirty tactics
May 11, 2008 - 16:04 ET by shawn228There is no doubt there is dirty tricks on both the right and the left. Anyone that says one is more ethical than the other is delusional.
Since the topic is the GOP tactics, I would have to agree with the Newsweek author.
The Swiftboat veterens tried to downplay John Kerrys service and I remember a few people on this site that have tried to downplay McCains heroic service before he got the nomination. Funny how I don't see post slamming McCain even a quarter a much as before.
The GOP will attack Obama with everything they have, They better be smart enough to know if hey go too far it can backfire on them
Please explain
May 11, 2008 - 16:11 ET by HumblepieJohn Kerry's service? And, how would it differ from the thousands that were drafted?
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
humble
May 11, 2008 - 16:18 ET by shawn228I did not say his service was differred from the thousands that were drafted did I? I said they attacked his character.
His character, you've got
May 11, 2008 - 16:20 ET by terrigHis character, you've got to be kidding. He lost that when he compared his fellow brother's in arms to Ghengis Kahn.
Now then
May 11, 2008 - 16:24 ET by HumblepieHow many:
1. Find a quick way out of Vietnam?
2. Go to USSR to help protest the war?
3. Testified under oath about atrocities committed, that didn't happen?
4. Throws his medals away during demonstration in D.C. then runs a campaign using his wartime experience?
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Himblepie
May 11, 2008 - 16:35 ET by DelsaAs it turned out, the medals he threw away were not even his!
He was not a hero. He has spent his life attempting to get back at the guys who knew him for the prick he really was and is.
Excuse my attempt at French!
Other than what I added, your statement is right on!
Beside all this Delsa...Ted
May 11, 2008 - 16:47 ET by bigtimerBeside all this Delsa...Ted Kenndy guided Kerry from the very beginning to get him in the Senate ect and where he is today, using the Vietnam war and vets...which btw... I love now because of the results.
If anyone really thinks about this, what Kennedy had done with his own election for Pres. and since then, the people he has backed, end up as losers...Obama will just be another dust in the wind fellow pol because of the likes of Kennedy and his support...I just love the Lyin' of the Senate.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
In case anybody doesn't know
May 11, 2008 - 18:51 ET by HumblepieKerry currently sits on the following committees to name a few:
1. MIA/POW affairs, travels regularly to Southeast Asia to meet/greet US Military personnel working in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, on the POW/MIA issue.
2. Intelligence Oversight Committee, This committee constructed the "Intelligence Oversight" regulations, which flatly stated what each agencies responsibility is. They don't overlap. Also brought you a budget cut throughout the intelligence community prior to 9-11. This cuts effected collection capabilities inside targeted countries and reduced the amount of people actually working in the intelligence collection fields.
My wife saw a photo of John Kerry and me taken in Vietnam in 1992. Her comments was that I looked pissed. How true she was.
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Delsa, he had three
May 11, 2008 - 16:53 ET by motherbeltDelsa, he had three different stories on the medals...he threw his medals; he said he threw someone else's medals, and he kept his medals but threw the ribbons that went with them.
LOL mb... That is the
May 11, 2008 - 16:58 ET by bigtimerLOL mb...
That is the problem with the leftists...they can't even remember which lie they tell, when they tell it, or where they tell it, to stick to at least one of them.
...ahhhh well, they have always had the lying msm to back them up with their spin..
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Motherbelt
May 11, 2008 - 17:16 ET by DelsaI forgot about the frickin ribbons.
You are right.
Humble...I don't believe
May 11, 2008 - 16:58 ET by JerHumble...I don't believe Kerry went to the Soviet Union at all...but, in any event, certainly not to help protest the war.
His four months in Vietnam were four months more than that of his opponent.
Kerry's testimony regarding atrocities was primarily his reading transcripts of the statements of others.
He did throw medals away.
Jer
Jer
May 11, 2008 - 17:13 ET by HumblepieRight continent wrong country:
John Kerry has admitted to meeting with the Vietcong shadow government
during the Paris Peace Talks, though he insists the meeting was simply
part of his effort to end the war and that he met with both sides. What
was it that Jesse Jackson said when asked if he would go to Afghanistan
and negotiate with the Taliban? Oh yeah, that that would be "tantamount
to treason."
The second document is described as "a communist Directive designed
to motivate discussions within Vietnam about promoting the ongoing
antiwar activities in the United States." It can be found here.
In the document NV sympathizers are urged to step up propaganda
activities that demoralize US troops. The document cites John Kerry's
denunciation of 'war crimes' and the staged event where he 'gave back'
his medals as examples that would help demoralize the troops. JAWA Report
During this time with political correctness at its zenith, I reserve the right to let you know you're an idiot.
Jer even Tom Oliphant who
May 11, 2008 - 17:16 ET by bigtimerJer even Tom Oliphant who is nothing but a flaming leftist whining writer for the Boston Globe I think, who was there at the time, says Kerry did not throw his medals away...or so he stated on Imus one morning.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt...Refer to motherbelt's
May 11, 2008 - 17:31 ET by Jerbt...Refer to motherbelt's post above and to my inital reply to Humblepie. I conceded Kerry threw medals. I don't know if they were his, others, or just the accompanying ribbons. It was symbolic protest, but I have always thought it a foolish and inappropriate act.
Jer
Jer... Yeah, I saw it and
May 11, 2008 - 17:36 ET by bigtimerJer...
Yeah, I saw it and relpied too...
Btw...I also heard the so-called medals were bought at a pawn shop too...I have also heard the ribbons...ect.
One thing we know...Kerry is a liar.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Nice finesse there...he did
May 11, 2008 - 19:18 ET by motherbeltNice finesse there...he did throw "medals" away. LOL
mb...I wasn't trying to
May 11, 2008 - 19:31 ET by Jermb...I wasn't trying to finesse anything. I didn't know whose medals [or ribbons?] he threw--just that he threw them. Anyway, maybe it was a finesse, but I wasn't trying to be tricky about it--not that you were accusing me of being so.
Jer.
Come on, Jer, lighten up, I
May 11, 2008 - 19:34 ET by motherbeltCome on, Jer, lighten up, I was kidding.
mb...I was just
May 11, 2008 - 19:46 ET by Jermb...I was just explaining--not trying to be combative. But, I'll admit I wasn't completely sure what your intention was. Glad to know it was good-natured.
Jer
Vietnam War ended in 1973
May 12, 2008 - 09:22 ET by CobraMan"His four months in Vietnam were four months more than that of his opponent."
It's also four months more than you or I spent in Vietnam, but so what? The Vietnam war ended in 1973 while President Bush was still training for carrier duty, remember? That "four moths more" argument isn't relevant.
"Kerry's testimony regarding atrocities was primarily his reading transcripts of the statements of others."
Say again? Kerry testified that he took part in the atrocities that he described.
"Yes, I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed." That’s a direct quote form Kerry’s Congressional testimony!
So, tell me again how his testimony was "primarily" the "statements of others?" He testified that he took part in atrocities that were never committed! He lied to Congress! Why wasn't he EVER charged with perjury?
Oh, and you forgot to mention that all of the statements he cited were never verified even though they were fully investigated. As a matter of fact, many of the "soldiers" admitted later that they were never took part in those "atrocities" or were never in the area where those "atrocities" took place. Some even admitted that they were never in Vietnam during the war or never served in the military at all.
"He did throw medals away."
He didn't throw them away, he threw them over the fence and onto the lawn of White House as a means of protest. He claimed for years that those medals were his, only to claim later that they were someone else's.
Shawn
May 11, 2008 - 16:27 ET by DelsaI love you but the flaw in your statement is when you suggest Kerry had or has character.
You have to remember to begin with a factual premise.
hi delsa
May 11, 2008 - 16:34 ET by shawn228Ok, I guess I'm fighting a losing battle with the John Kerry thing. Lets talk to John McCain. Before he got the nomination, people called him every name in the book and some even discredited his military credentials.
Ann Coulter basically calling John Edwards a faggot is also another example of cheap smears.
Again the Democrats are just as guilty, but just wanted to point out the republican party is not innocent.
Ummmm....
May 11, 2008 - 16:43 ET by Warner Todd Huston...Did anyone here ever say the GOP was innocent?
ummmm
May 11, 2008 - 16:46 ET by shawn228Did the article you used for reference say the Democrats were innocent?
I'm just acknowledging GOP dirty tactics.
And since...
May 11, 2008 - 16:50 ET by Warner Todd Huston... the article YOU just pointed out, already DID mention GOP dirty tricks, you have just wasted our time by your pointless effort!
Thanks for stopping by, though.
and since
May 11, 2008 - 16:56 ET by shawn228the article dealt with GOP dirty tricks, I thought it would be to say I agree with the author. Sorry you think it is a pointless effort.
The only reason, I brought up their is dirty tricks on the Dem side, is because sooner or later someone would eventually say the Dems/Libs/Bill Maher/Keith Olbermman/George Soros said....
shawn, I put this above,
May 11, 2008 - 16:58 ET by motherbeltshawn, I put this above, but I'm bringing it down here into this argument:
"When
you don't vote, you let another church explode. When you don't vote,
you allow another cross to burn. When you don't vote, you let another
assault wound a brother or sister. When you don't vote, you let the
Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start."
And then we can talk about the pickup truck/chain dragging/ James Byrd ad of 2000 against GWB.
What have you got by Republicans that's worse than those?
motherbelt
May 11, 2008 - 17:26 ET by shawn228Well, I can go on Google and probably find a few quotes from Pat Robertson or find a few pictures of flyers with
men getting married on them and saying this is what will happen if the Democrats win, but I'm sure you will not agree with anything I link to anyway.
What I will do is prove that sometimes things backfire on you. The GOP controlled this house seat of over 20 yrs. It now belongs to a Democrat because people can see through dirty politics.
shawn I was talking about
May 11, 2008 - 19:36 ET by motherbeltshawn I was talking about ads, not just stupid things that people say. Ads are planned, scripted, produced, and cost money. That's different.
well motherbelt
May 11, 2008 - 20:02 ET by shawn228I think all the things you mentioned are pretty bad scare tactis about what would happen if you voted for the GOP.
IMO that pales in comparision to implying there will be a terrorist strike on our country if you vote for a Democrat.
I'll admit, that's pretty
May 11, 2008 - 20:50 ET by motherbeltI'll admit, that's pretty scary. No worse than the Democrats' old "daisy" ad though..
All right
May 11, 2008 - 17:11 ET by DelsaFirst-McCain did not have support amoung Conservatives.
Moderates and Liberals have his back though.
For Conservatives, he is the lesser of the evils. If someone is not a socialist, they could feel safe voting for him.
I think U fall into the, could vote for McCain crowd.
His military creds are in question if you were to say he was a great pilot. His flight history tells a different story. One of his planes is in the gulf and he crashed another on the deck of a carrier.
If any other Navy pilot slid in on the deck they'd never see the inside of a cockpit again. John's daddy was of high rank and had pull so he remained a pilot.
His time in the Hanoi Hilton has had mixed reviews from POW's.
Ann Coulter's remarks about pretty John Edwards have their origin in his Breck girl immage. Breck refers to the Breck girl Shampoo comercials and Edwards is always fussin with his hair.
As long as the war of words is about issues, anything should be fair. Unfortunatly for Obama, some of his stances may have taken root while sitting in the pews of pastor Wright's church over the last 20 years. And his views are fair game.
Understand, McCain is not someone I would have wanted for president but in order to remain free a little longer, I may have to vote for him.
Ann Coulter is a commentator and Not the Republican Party and the Swiftboat guys were all folks who served with Kerry and had a very different picture of him than the one he paints of himself. They had an olbligation to point all of this out to the American Voters.
Delsa
May 11, 2008 - 17:20 ET by shawn228That was an excellent post and you brought up some great points. I'm not saying I agree with everything you posted, but it contained facts that backed up what you said and well written.
Maybe some people that have huge issues against liberals, especially the ones with contributing writer status can learn from you.
Those writers are suppossed to set an example for everybody else, but if the regular reponse they give most of the time is moron, retard or your pointless, it really adds nothing to the substance of the debate.
Thank you again for excellent post.
LOL, to paraphrase..
May 11, 2008 - 17:28 ET by Warner Todd Huston"Are you crying? There's no crying in politics!"
Only tears of joy Warner ;-)
May 11, 2008 - 17:33 ET by shawn228Only tears of joy Warner ;-)
Good one....
May 11, 2008 - 17:38 ET by Warner Todd HustonI thought so! Ha, ha.
Oh good
May 11, 2008 - 17:50 ET by DelsaFor a moment I was worried I spoke too much. I have a tendency to go on and on sometimes.
There are some liberals who are totally irrational and I don't count you in with them.
People stop listening if the conversation takes on a personal tone. If no one is listening points are not won or lost. They fall on deaf ears.
I have been in some back and forth conversations with people who simply can't be saved. When that happen, instead of getting totally pissed off, I take a deep breath, say a prayer for OUR country and move on.
I am going to let my 19 year old son know some people appreciate what I have to say. Agree or not.
"Understand, McCain is not
May 11, 2008 - 17:59 ET by mandrake"Understand, McCain is not someone I would have wanted for president but in order to remain free a little longer,"
This "remain free a little longer" is a recurring theme with conservatives that I find intriguing. What exactly do you think is going to happen?
a) Obama will introduce reverse slavery?
b) Bin Laden will land on the shores of California and enslave America?
c) China will simply buy America due to international debt..no wait that could happen
Never mind.
Actually, mandrake
May 11, 2008 - 18:51 ET by DelsaI do not know what you mean by a "a recurring theme with conservatives" because this is my thought, and I do not consider it a theme.
I am adding Clinton in this conversation because they are one in the same with only a few exceptions.
Now as to (a), Obama or Clinton introducing reverse slavery
It is NOT "reverse slavery", they propose.
It is however, the re-introducing of slavery through government social programs, government mandates, and higher takes.
Obama and Clinton have no respect for people who work hard for a living. They think nothing of taking the earnings from one segment of the population and giving it away to those who have no business recieving the fruits of others labor.
As for point (b), Bin Laden landing on the shores of California...
Although he'd be welcome on the left coast, he'd do better to travel due West and land on the Eastern shores as it would be a shorter trip for him.
With respect to (c), all I can tell you is ... well what can I say other than your expertise in this area is obvious.
Desla, I used the term
May 11, 2008 - 19:00 ET by mandrakeDesla, I used the term 'recurring theme' because you're not the first to express that notion. In fact I've heard the 'we're about to lose our freedom' thought many times since I first signed up here. I clearly recall, before the 2006 elections several NB posters upset about what would happen if the Dems took the house.
Well you're still free ain't ya...and you still have guns...right?
mandrake
May 11, 2008 - 19:28 ET by Delsathe dems have majorities and with the exception of the House, they do not have voting majorities. And for that I thank GOD.
In addition, the dems do not have a total LEFT wing majority yet either and I think if obama or clinton reach the white house, Conservative Dems in thehouse will vote with Republicans.
If I am not the first to "express" this particular notion, all I can say is Great Minds Think Alike!
Your condescending "ain't ya...and you still have guns...right?", simply HIGHLIGHTS YOUR IGNORANCE.
Delsa
May 11, 2008 - 19:38 ET by mandrakeI apologize if my remarks came across as condescending. That was not my intention. Damn socialist doctors removed my sense of humour when they were trying to fix my leg...I do wish they would teach those guys anatomy.
mandrake
May 11, 2008 - 19:41 ET by Delsawhat socialist doctors?
I am not in on the facts.
Delsa
May 11, 2008 - 19:48 ET by mandrakeOh, I'm Canadian. I was in a car accident last September..In the hospital for 4 months. Anyway, I'm somewhat known around NB as a defender of the Canadian health care system..I sometimes get 'flamed' about it.
Does that explain it?
Yep that explains it
May 11, 2008 - 20:14 ET by DelsaI like the term "flamed".
When you say you defend the Canadian health care system, is that toung in cheek?
My older son's godfather was on a motorcycle trip in Canada and a woman came out onto the main road and took his right leg out of service. he did a stint in the hospital but came home for all the major medical stuff.
He almost lost his leg and was glad to have his medical treatment here. Although, he credits the doctors in Canada for the initial treatment.
I do not have health insurance. We are self employed and it is expensive. However, I do not want socialized medicne.
Last year, I got a new hip. Paid cash. Had great discounts form doctor to hospital. They are happy to get cash and let folks make payments. NO Government RED tape.
I'd like to see more competition in the insurance industry but he government mandates what companies have to offer. If we could pick and choose the things we want, we might be able to afford it.
By the way, if you go to one of our emergency rooms you get great care and the care comes before payment.
Hope your leg is better now?
Thanks for asking. I can
May 11, 2008 - 20:25 ET by mandrakeThanks for asking. I can actually walk for while now without a cane. It looked at first like I might lose the leg but the doctors where good.
I'm glad you were well treated for your hip and were able to afford it. I'm sure that if I had to pay for my surgery and a 4 month stay in the hospital I'd be broke by now. I got excellent care..though some people for ideological reasons refuse to believe it.
Anyway, sorry again if I was rude before.
Hey mandrake... Not to
May 11, 2008 - 20:38 ET by bigtimerHey mandrake...
Not to butt in here, but I asked about you awhile back now when somebody was talking about socialized medicine I think it was and your name came up, maybe by me...I think it may have been shawn who told me what happened to you, I posted at the time I was glad you were okay...it could of been worse, and that I enjoyed your banter most of the time and liked you even if we didn't agree on all.
So I am glad to hear of your progress...keep on truckin'!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
mandrake
May 11, 2008 - 20:56 ET by shawn228When the heck is a Canandian team going to win the Stanley Cup. It has been far too long.
Maybe with all the money Canada is making with oil, they can afford to get players to get the job done.
I'm glad your leg is feeling better, I gave up on trying to have a reasonable conversation with folks on this site about this topic. It always tends to get nasty. I don't know why things always turn for the worst when they concern these 3 topics
The Iraq War
Global Warming
Universal Healthcare.
I won't lie, I prefer living in the United States more than I liked living in Canada, but the thought of not having healthcare in the USA frightens he heck out of me.
Stanley Cup...ya I know..it
May 11, 2008 - 21:01 ET by mandrakeStanley Cup...ya I know..it hurts.
The Toronto Maple Leafs just fired their coach..so maybe next season. (said the perennially deluded mandrake)
Hey Shawn
May 11, 2008 - 21:13 ET by DelsaYou know why Canada is making money on oil?
THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BRING IT UP OUT OF THE GROUND!!
WE AREN'T !
My brother told me we are sitting on the same pool up in Alaska. Canada gets it and we can't. Even if we pull it up we do not have the refinery capacity.
Doo gooders in USA keep us all down.
As for getting sick in the USA. Go to the emergency room. You will wait but get great care.
Is Canada out of the Cup play offs?
Actually Delsa
May 11, 2008 - 21:34 ET by shawn228I agree with conservatives on this one. We should start drilling immediately. I disagree there is as much under there as the Alberta tar sands, but hopefully we will find out.
Universal healthcare is the only thing I agree with liberals when it comes to letting the government pay for its citizens. Yes you will get great care in a emergency room, but if you have a nest age saved up and have no health insurance, get ready to say buh buh to years of savings
My main beef with conservatives is with social issues.
A Canadian team has not won the Stanley Cup since 92.
Of course...
May 11, 2008 - 21:51 ET by Warner Todd HustonOf course, the idea of government operated universal healthcare brings up one question. Is there any program that government does well? I sure can't think of one. Do you want the same gov't that pays $600 for a toilet seat to handle decisions where your LIFE hangs in he balance???
The most frightening words in any language is, "I am from the government and I am here to help."
Warner
May 11, 2008 - 22:08 ET by shawn228I believe in conservatives principals. Work hard, save money, enjoy life.
I do not feel sorry for anyone's house that burned down or someone that is serious financial debt because of auto accident that was their fault. The reason is they should have had insurance
Health insurance to me is a totally different kind of creature. If you have a great job and benefits, all is fine and dandy. If you go through an unfortunately spell when you are not employed, health insurance is not affordable. If you already have some sort of illness, you will not be accepted.
Older folks that have great healthcare do not realize that if they have a stroke or alhzheimers, medical coverage's only cover you for a certain amount of days, then you are on you own. Hospice care can be 200 bucks a day.
My point is food and taking care of your family is personal responsiblity, but many responsible people go broke because of health bills. I know Canada's system is not perfect, but I prefer it to the American one.
BT
May 11, 2008 - 20:57 ET by mandrakeNot butting in, You're always welcome by me. ;)
Thanks for the well wishes. Ya I'm doing better..though you may find me more ornery than before :-\
ttfn.
LOL mandrake... Well as
May 11, 2008 - 21:06 ET by bigtimerLOL mandrake...
Well as far as ornery goes we all have out moments.
You were in fine form last night...so obviously you are on the mend.
Btw...I have always enjoyed your back and forth about Canada and the Health care system here with others...it has been interesting for me anyway, I live close to the border and know people who live in Canada and have no complaints too...as I have said before.
I am a lot like Delsa, I do not want socialized medicine here either, but I also know for a fact something drastic has to happen here for our system too...like Delsa we were self-employed for years, could not afford health insurance....thank goodness we have it now, or we would of lost everything...and still been in debt up the ying-yang.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hey, I believe it
May 11, 2008 - 20:39 ET by DelsaI took out a loan... they may get paid back before I die but it is not a given.
My brother, retired military, was saved by military doctors and some would concider it socilized medicne. He had a melinoma, which I discovedred, and they did all the right things for him.
We were the children of a retired Navy Captian. Spent a lot of time at Bethesda Navel Hospital. Always had great treatment. My dad worked 22 years for those benifits.
I guess I am just against anything socialized. What can I say? I'm funny that way.
You were not rude. I am glad we get to know about each other here.
It makes the conversations that more interesting and satisfying. We do not always agree and that is ok. The point is we still talk.
That's not true
May 12, 2008 - 09:44 ET by CobraMan"If any other Navy pilot slid in on the deck they'd never see the inside
of a cockpit again. John's daddy was of high rank and had pull so he
remained a pilot."
That's not true, lots of Navy pilots have crashed during a carrier landing, especially during combat duty, and they still flew off that same carrier, albeit with a different aircraft. I want you to cite a single instance where a combat pilot was removed from flight status because of a crash, other than for injuries he or she may have sustained.
A carrier landing is the most difficult landing scenario known. The Navy isn't going to toss out a highly trained pilot simply because of a crash landing, as it takes, years and lot's of money (millions in today's dollars), to train a pilot. That’s not something you just toss away without having a very good reason. A crash landing is not a good reason as those are expected during training and duty.
Delsa... Bingo! "Never
May 11, 2008 - 16:37 ET by bigtimerDelsa...
Bingo!
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Wah, those bad gop dirty tactics shawn?
May 11, 2008 - 16:14 ET by terrigPlease, you have to live in a bubble to not think the dimocraps don't have a thing in store for McCain. Soros already has dumped a ton of money into 527s that McCain helped create so I guess his chickens are coming home to roost on that score.
Kerry's service was not what Kerry said it was. Sorry if that offends you but it is offensive to vets who have and do serve honorably. I think it's hard for most people to take serious a man who claimed his brothers in arms were Ghengis Kahn and threw his medals (although he later claimed they were someone elses) in the water.
I'm not real sure who voted for McCain, maybe some dimocraptic operatives who crossed over in states like VA, FL, etc. I don't know a soul who voted for him and I know a lot of people who vote in FL and here in VA.
I hope you're not afraid that the bitter ones (the obummers) are going to get their feelings hurt. I think there is enough of his own words and associations to make a campaign out of. Anyone who sits in a church like that for 20 years and hangs around the weather underground pukes deserves to be attacked on that alone, much less the 57 states of the United States.
well terrig
May 11, 2008 - 16:23 ET by shawn228I guess you missed the part where I said there was dirty tactics on both the left and the right.
Kerry was a war hero and the GOP wanted to attack his character. The party did not want to be directly associated with the Swiftboat veterens, so they did not take credit. Just like the Dems with Moveon.org
I'm not talking about anyone getting their feelings hurt, I mean attacks can backfire and we will have a Democrat President, along with a Democratic house and fillibuster proof senate.
I don't think Kerry was thought of in that vien
May 11, 2008 - 18:14 ET by terrigI have a lot of relatives who were in Viet Nam and not one of them thinks Kerry is a "war hero". If by virture of the fact that he went when people like Clinton didn't yes-he is but those who served with Kerry didn't think much of him.
Edited to add: I am also not a fan of Dick Cheney and never have been. I wasn't a fan of his while sitting in Kuwait during DS 1 and seeing him on the screen everyday yapping away. I don't have a lot of respect for those who didn't serve, yet serve in positions of Defense when they weren't there themselves. I do believe Kerry initially looked at his time in service as a political opportunity and when the war went south due to the anti-war pukes-yes pukes, he got on that bus and rode it too. He spent part of his time running for president running from that for a while but those who were with him weren't going to let him get away with that.
Besides with his "Winter Soldier" endeavor he did everything possible to distance himself from those who did serve. He cannot have it both ways.
I don't think the dims have to do a darn thing to get obummer living at 1600 Penn Ave, the MSM do it for him. He can save all his campaign cash for those ballet and piano lessons for the two little "punishments" he has aka children.
All due respect...
May 11, 2008 - 19:11 ET by Warner Todd HustonAll due respect to your service, but this is a stupid sentiment and it's one far too many Americans hold...
For your information it is the most quintessentially American position for a civilian to serve as the guide for the US military. No service needed. At all. Ever.
Our framers felt that putting the military, or military men, in complete control of the military was not a good idea because it could too easily lead to what we call juntas today. They had NO thought that being in the military in the past was a necessary prerequisite to pick cabinet members.
Many founders, in fact, wanted men of NO military experience to control the military.
So, you can hate Cheney all you want. But to hate him because he didn't serve finds YOU hating him for a very UNAMERICAN reason.
Call me UnAmerican all you want-won't change my mind
May 11, 2008 - 22:50 ET by terrigSo Mr. Warner, perhaps to you I am stupid, unAmerican and the "all due respect" comments mean you don't really have any respect-I know I use it a lot myself for people I don't have resepect for-please. I realize the founding fathers position, I just don't like to be yacked at by those who didn't serve. I think my 12 years gives me the right as it does you to think what I want to think. You may think me stupid and an idiot, that is your right but I have a right too and where did I say that I hated Cheney, I just said I don't have a lot of respect for him. Comprende? Please refrain from such unwarranted attacks. I did nothing to insult you personally, please refrain from insulting me. BTW did you thank a military spouse on Friday? You should have, it was military spouse appreciation day. We have a tough job too as well as our military spouses.
Again, please refrain from calling me stupid and unAmerican, I did no such thing to you. Those statements show that you're obviously bitter about something.
Please don't disprespect St. Francis by putting Obama in his portrait. It's not very respectful with all due respect.
Sir, I was VERY specific in
May 11, 2008 - 22:56 ET by Warner Todd HustonSir, I was VERY specific in my words. I neither called you unAmerican, nor stupid. I said the sentiment was stupid. and I said the idea was unAmerican.
You may take my reply any way you want, it makes no never mind to me. And how I feel about our military folks is not an issue here, nor did I question your feelings about them. I have no need to answer to you about it, either.
We all have some wrong headed ideas. This one is yours.
So Mr. Terrig, get worked up all you want. Your defensiveness seems rather unwarranted, but... whatever.
I am not Catholic, either.
I am a woman not a man-what's your issue?
May 11, 2008 - 23:03 ET by terrighello, I am a girl, not a boy so let's get that straight right off the bat.
Your implication I was stupid and unAmerican was just too much for this gal. I don't know what else to say. I'm sorry you're so hateful and negative but that is your business.
It's obvious to me you despise Catholics. Which is your right of course. I always try to respect the religion of others but I was raised to do that, it appears if you were taught that you forgot it.
I truly pity you, you must be so very unhappy.
Yeah...
May 11, 2008 - 23:09 ET by Warner Todd Huston...man, woman, whatever. On line we are all just a bunch of zeros and ones.
I won't get in a pissing match with you and your pronouncements on my state of... whatever... is not worth getting all upset over, really.
I said what I meant the first time. Take it as you will.
So, have a nice night.
What a swell
May 11, 2008 - 23:13 ET by terrigI say what I mean too, sorry you're so bitter and you forgot the lessons your parent's taught you. Respect is a two way street buddy.
Try to be nice to people once in awhile. It's obvious you have some issues to get over. Have a pleasant week and try to be nice to people for a change.
There was nothing wrong with what you said WTH
May 11, 2008 - 23:20 ET by Dee Bunkand I'm really sick of people on here who take huge offense just because people disagree with them. It's really getting old.
You made an excellent point that it's UnAmerican to disrespect someone just because they didn't serve. Good job and keep up the good work. You and I have disagreed before and I have no problems with your style. People who do should stay off your threads if they are so hyper sensitive. I like when people say what they mean.
Keep up the good work. I'm glad that there is diversity in style with the various NB bloggers.
Dee...
May 11, 2008 - 23:26 ET by Warner Todd HustonThanks for that, Dee.
I see that there will be no conversing with Terrig. Lottsa emotion all roiled up in that one. Like I said. We all have ideas that seem a bit off the beaten track once in a while. Heck, I am almost convinced that FDR knew that the Japs were about to hit Pearl Harbor and he let it happen to be sure and get us in the war!
Almost, that is.
I'm with you as well Warner
May 11, 2008 - 23:56 ET by shawn228You did not say one disrespectful thing to terrig and you did not call her any names and she is blowing this way out of proportion.
Heck you save all your good material and name calling for leftists like me :-)
and you are learning to take it less personally
May 12, 2008 - 00:01 ET by Dee BunkShawn - I hope that trend continues.
Dee
May 12, 2008 - 00:07 ET by shawn228You make me out to be like some prude, when I am not.
I love sarcasm. I use it all the time. I just don't like it when name calling and sarcasm is the only thing that is offerred. And no, I'm not implying anything about WTH, that goes with anybody.
Wow Dee..hi... You beat
May 11, 2008 - 23:39 ET by bigtimerWow Dee..hi...
You beat me to it but put everything I was going to say much better anyway...(I was interrupted here personally, when I came back I saw what you had posted)
I too have been back and forth with Warner early on, but he treated me with respect as I did him...I find him refreshing here...
I also didn't take offense to the caption of Obama, and I lean Catholic...people really need to lighten up around here.
I also respect VP Cheney a helluva a lot and think he speaks loud and clear what is on his mind...
terri, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you too, but Warner was not calling you stupid at all, as he pointed out rather well.
Just my two cents.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hi BT - and I didn't mean to pick on terri
May 11, 2008 - 23:59 ET by Dee BunkIt's been going on a lot here and getting on my nerves for a while. Warner has a style that is more confrontational then some of the other bloggers, but there is nothing wrong with it and I'm tired of people who complain about it.
Things just seem to be getting a little too PC around here and someone just has to say - I'm offended! and that deems the other person to be offensive. That is what happens in liberal land and that attitude shouldn't dominate here. I don't know about others, but I come here because I can't say stuff around my "sensitive" friends and I hate that this place is becoming like that.
I have to run and didn't really even have time to post, but as I said it's been irritating me for a while now and I'm not meaning to take it out on terri only.
Dee... Sorry to get back
May 12, 2008 - 00:21 ET by bigtimerDee...
Sorry to get back to you a bit later...but once again I could not agree more. I have posted as much myself here more that once.
I look forward to what WTH is going to have for us, like I do John Stephenson (sp), for me these guys say it like it is....what is wrong with that?
This PCness will do us in all over the place...look at what is happening to the democrat party now, who has created all of this BS themselves, hand in hand with the msm, took them years of hard work to end up biting them in their own arses now...same thing can happen to us if we don't lighten up some and quit being so sensitive and accusatory.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Thanks again...
May 12, 2008 - 03:19 ET by Warner Todd HustonThanks again to all you guys (even Shawn! LOL)
I do absolutely realize that I am a bit bellicose. And, I know darn well I am full of hot air all too often (ask my wife). Unfortunately, I blame Al Gore's invention. See, I cut my teeth on this Internet thingie on about 20 different political message boards and they were NEVER ones where everyone was on my side. I ALWAYS went to boards filled with folks I disagree with. This caused my already somewhat caustic nature often to get too belligerent. Too often I have to step myself back to remember that this isn't the end of the world.
Anyway, I do get carried away sometimes. I've always appreciated the well placed put down, too. Just my acrid sense of humor.
So, to Shawn and Terrig... even Balboa... I never mean to say I devalue you as human beings. I love babies, puppies and pretty flowers. And you guys are cool, too.
But you all just must remember one thing... I am ALWAYS right, dangit!
(By the way. I'd like to explain something about my comment posting style that always cracks me up. You notice, I'm sure, that I sometimes use the ALL CAPS style to emphasize a point. This drives some people absolutely batpoop CRAZY. They hate it so bad. Perversely, it makes me want to do it more! It was one of the early things I learned to really get under some people's skin. Again, my danged pointed personality strikes.)
Anyway, don't mind me. I'm just sitting on my porch and yelling to them kids to get offa my lawn.
So glad you think I am also
May 12, 2008 - 08:24 ET by terrigSo glad you think I am also unAmerican. Again, you have that right. I can think you're rude and sorry if it's getting old for you.
Have a pleasant week as well and I say what I mean.
»→ terrig
May 12, 2008 - 08:33 ET by Cool ArrowI'll let it slide. Never mind.
♣ a seal
No one called you UnAmerican Terri
May 12, 2008 - 11:06 ET by Dee Bunkthat's the kind of thing that is getting old. People implying that people said something they didn't. Warner made a very good argument how the concept of not having respect for someone just because they didn't serve is UnAmerican. You don't have a good counter argument so instead you act as if he's attacking you rather than the concept you advocated. Your attacks on him were much more personal.
It's one thing to disrespect a civilian who goes around disrespecting other civilians for not serving (like many of the Dems do) when they didn't serve either. If you disrespect people just because they didn't serve then you disrespect me and 95% of other Americans.
The fact that you do serve makes me have great respect for you but not so much respect that I'll tolerate disrespect to me. The great respect those of us who don't serve have for the military comes from the fact that you are selflessly giving of yourself to protect this country, and it's people, the majority of whom don't serve. It's what makes you so unique and admirable. If we lived in a mandatory service country then it wouldn't be all that admirable. It would just be ordinary. When you disrespect people who don't serve then it really changes the dynamic to say that you are only fighting for yourself and others just like you in the military. It's one thing to have more respect for people who serve (I do) and it's another to disrespect people simply for not serving.
You can dislike Cheney for all sorts of reasons and I believe you do have other reasons than just the fact that he didn't serve. That is fine. If you can't admit that then it means you disrespect all of us who didn't serve. Why should we respect you if you are not even fighting for us?
You can think I'm rude - I don't have a problem with that. I'm sure many sensitive people think I'm rude. Being hyper-sensitive doesn't mean you are not also rude and capable of saying what you mean. You were quite rude to Warner, to me - not so much yet. You said I called you UnAmerican when I didn't and you called me rude which is your opinion. I could call those things rude, but I'll just say impolite to distinguish how much more vitriolic you were towards Warner.
If you are offended by Warner's style, or by mine, then you should just ignore us. It's a big enough board that you can do that. We are not going to change who we are. Both he and I and many others are the type to confront people who say things we don't like whether we consider them friends or foes. I don't really consider anyone here to be an enemy but if people hate me as I am, I'm not willing to change my whole personality just because some may be offended by it.
Just the other day Warner told me my idea about something was stupid, and I didn't take that to mean he thought I was stupid. I took it that I was ineffective at explaining what I meant and came back at him with another explanation. We didn't exactly end up in 100% agreement but we found more things that we agreed about. People are certainly allowed to think my ideas are stupid, especially when I don't explain them well. Writing is not my talent and though I'm a little better with speaking, it can't even come close to conveying the brilliance in my mind! ; )
I served too
May 12, 2008 - 10:03 ET by CobraMan"I think my 12 years gives me the right as it does you to think what I want to think."
I served in the military too, and I don't care if the DoD is staffed, or run, by those who did not serve. I want people who are qualified for the position, not simply those who served. I, for example, was a Cobra mechanic during the cold war, but I don't think that my military training and experience in the military would qualify me to hold a mid-level or higher position in the DoD.
Military experience doesn't always equate with competence, as you are no doubt aware. I've known many a solider and veteran who are unqualified to make decisions in regards to the military‘s needs, goals, and strategy, and I'm sure that during your 12 years you also known a few yourself, so being in the military doesn't mean you're automatically qualified to hold a position in the DoD.
Also, as Warner pointed out, simply being a civilian doesn't mean you're not qualified to be in the DoD and the Constitution requires that the military be under civilian control.
I understand what you are
May 11, 2008 - 16:29 ET by mostlymoderateI understand what you are saying. There IS dirty tricks on both sides. There is even dirty tricks on the "inside" of each party. For example, the dirty tricks played against people like Giuliani and Romney by his own fellow Republicans. The Democrats are even worse in the way they have treated Hilary Clinton. Don't get me wrong, I never liked Hilary much. HOWEVER, these same people that are attacking her now in support of Obama were sucking on her kneecaps before Obama entered the picture. Democrats are backstabbers. Maybe Republicans are too. :(
I understand that you
May 11, 2008 - 17:29 ET by mikejI understand that you believe that are dirty tricks/negative campaigning on each side, but the media doesn't.
This is the umpteenth time that the media has brought up the idea that the GOP would be rough/negative in their campaigning. They are probably right, but when the Dem's do it as much or worse, why is that ignored by the MSM? I think we all know the answer to that.
Excuse me, but the Swifboat
May 11, 2008 - 16:24 ET by SmartypantsExcuse me, but the Swifboat Vets did not "try to downplay" John Kerry's service, but rather they tried to shed light on it to let the people understand that there was more there than what meets the eyes. Their message was that, given some significant events which transpired, they did not feel John Kerry was fit to be Commander in Chief. There is nothing underhanded or immoral or even misleading about anything the Swiftboat Vets did. Calling it a "dirty little trick" is absurd. In fact, it was the essence of what a free society is supposed to be allowed to do--speak out publicly against government as well as those who seek to hold public office.
Fear has been an instrinsic
May 11, 2008 - 16:18 ET by SmartypantsFear has been an instrinsic element in the Democrat campaign strategy since I've been alive. Black people are supposed to fear white people; women are supposed to fear men; poor people should fear "the rich," homesexuals should fear the "religious right," etc. This issue is so obvious that it is ridiculous this posting is even needed. It is as if leftists have no capacity to understand their own shortcomings, only focusing on imagined transgressions of the right. Of course, when one buys into all of this left wing nonsense, than it is not considered a fear tactic, but rather just an expression of the truth. This is why many in the press just don't get it; they sympathize with the Democrat message from the start, so the words to not register in the same way they would to an objective mind.
Obama's three closest friends are fundamentalist America-haters
May 11, 2008 - 20:38 ET by TERichard Wolffe and Evan Thomas assert: "It is a sure bet that the GOP will try to paint Obama as "the other"--as a haughty black intellectual who has Muslim roots (Obama is a Christian) and hangs around with America-haters."
Obama's three closest friends include: an angry, bitter, militant America-hater (i.e., Michelle Hussein Obama), a vile, race baiting, America-hating fundamentalist (i.e., Jeremiah Wright) and an America-hating terrorist (i.e., William Ayers). Unfortunately, like Wolffe, Evans and the rest of McCain's former pals in the Washington press corps, McCain is too stupid to mention such facts. Let's hope that we have another group like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth who are unafraid to tell the truth about Obama and his America-hating fellow travelers.
Evening TE... I could not
May 11, 2008 - 20:41 ET by bigtimerEvening TE...
I could not agree more.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
The Mainstream Media
May 11, 2008 - 20:52 ET by Teddy'Successfully Fellating democRats Since 1968'
Newsweek is terrible
May 12, 2008 - 15:51 ET by BS DetectorI read this last week and had to stop reading on page 2...same guys
h**p://www.newsweek.com/id/134398/page/1
I don't want to give them too much traffic becasue it might encourage their schlock